Temperance

I consider fundie to be anyone who thinks their religion should be imposed on others especially their own children. To me fundie means religious control. I grew up with people who were inconsistently/borderline fundie what I call fundie-lite. They weren't necessarily evangelical, but they used their religion to impose their rules and hurt people. I think if people want to call themselves ex-fundie, because they raised by people who used religion to hurt other people and control their kids then they should be able to. I accept and believe that fundamentalism should encompass a wider set of beliefs than just a cult.

Let's hope Alyssa changes her mind as her kids get older. She is not the brightest person. I also wonder if she'll want a real education for her husband's heir once junior arrives. Joy's husband comes from the most conservative background and the only one who is IBLP. Ben's parents were fundie, but seem to have some common sense. Derick and Jeremy come from more mainstream backgrounds. Joy and Austin seem really good together, but both of them keep the other one bound to fundamentalism.

I meant posted, not posed. sorry

No which other forum were you looking in?

Lawson posed a picture saying he's looking for a girlfriend.

Carlin took her baby to chiropractor. There's a video up on youtube.

Jessa and Ben should be making enough money off the television show to move to a better house. Jessa has been on television since she was 16 and younger during the first specials. Ben has been on television at least 6 years. Maybe they could borrow the camping trailer or live in one of the JB's rental properties while fixing and selling the mold house. Since it's in their names, they can use the money from the sale of the old house towards a new one. I think they're outgrowing this house and it would be smart to transition while the show is on the air. It's already tight with 3 kids and they will most likely have more.

Yeah it raised some red flags with me too! Maybe they'll decide public school has too many non-Christians in it! Maybe they'll object to what's being taught. Maybe Jill will get too lonely like she was before Israel was born. I think my biggest issue is that it seems like this may all be for attention. People will write articles and they'll get hits on social media and youtube. They'll get articles on on-line tabloids. People will talk and that's what they want. Jill and Derick have slowly moved away from the cult. They're not IBLP/IFB anymore; they're SBC. Jill can wear pants and get her hair cut. The boys can socialize with non-family. There's one more thing that non-Duggar thing I'd wish they'd do and that is to stop trying to be famous and become more private. But that ain't gonna happen!

I see where you're coming from. Israel will still have to deal with his mom plenty even with going to school. However I still think the other Duggar grands are in way more trouble. I have several friends who were homeschooled and agree homeschooling can be great if you know what you're doing. The Duggars however do not seem to know what their doing. They relied on those damn Wisdumb books and the awkward skewered curriculum. We're still not sure how many of them have GEDs or some other official high school alternative. The boys allowed married girls who were also homeschooled by fundies. Abbie and Lauren at least were able to move on to some advanced schooling and Abbie is LPN. Both Kendra and Anna have seemed overwhelmed by their kids so far. Kendra seemed overwhelmed by taking care of the one baby, but maybe she'll be better able to cope with babies after having a bunch of her own. On the other hand, by time Garrett, is 5, she'll probably have at least 2 more kids (Garrett will be 2 in June; he's 1 now). And Anna's kids get the same kind of homeschooling as their aunts and uncles.

When Josh and Anna got engaged, they broke the rules by front hugging. Unlike Jill and Derick, whose only front hug was intercepted by a security alarm, they were able to have more control. Also Michelle wasn't there to tell them to stop. I've forgotten how screwed up it all is. Two adults in a serious relationship aren't allowed to hug because their parents won't let them and Momma Michelle may have a panic attack. How are kids/adults supposed to learn body autonomy when they can't make "their own" decisions to hold hands, kiss or hug someone. What kind of person enjoys having that much power over someone else and what does it say about them? I would also say the same is true about them not letting the girls wear pants. I spend too much time here; this stuff is starting to sound normal to me.

Good for them. Although it's just kindergarten and I guess I don't see the big deal. I haven't really worried about these kids except for the dangerous balancing stunts. I hope this goes well and doesn't scare them out of taking the kids out of school. I think Jill could handle Kindergarten and the next few years afterwards. It's those later grades with all those advanced subjects that get harder and harder for homeschooling parents to handle. I know a woman who used to teach advanced math who teaches homeschooled kids. I always had more confidence in Jill and Derick to educate their kids than most of the other Duggars (except JinJer). Jill was one of the brightest Duggars who has her GED and Derick has a real education. It seems like people particularly wanted Israel and Samuel to go to school and seem less concerned about the other Duggar grands. The M-kids, Garrett, Gideon, Spurgeon, Henry, etc. all seem to be growing up homeschooled or will be. Since Jill and Derick have been going to a mainstream Baptist church for a long time, it seems very likely that they know other parents who send their kid to public schools.

Jinger was 22 when she got married and almost 23. She got married at 22 the first week of November 2016. She turned 23 in December right before Christmas.

So True! I agree with so much of this. The least three nieces born were Carlin's Layla (January 31), Erin's Holland (born late Novmber) and Zach's Khloe (born early November). Josie had Willow in July 2019.

For a minute, I thought I was Jill Rodrigues talking about Tim. I wonder if any girl will be good enough for Lawson in Kelly's eyes. Also I think it's interesting that Esther's last name is almost the same as their last name.

Jessa's kids are so little that they're more comfortable with an odd arrangement. I think older kids, particularly teens need more space. Also there are fewer Seewalds than Rods. I think Jessa should invest in a larger house and stop trying to make the mold house work for her growing family.

Meagan Forsyth Ballinger and her husband Robert "Bobby" Ballinger are expecting their third child in July. They have now announced they're having a boy and he will Robert Alan Ballinger III (Robert Alan Ballinger the third). To differentiate their son from his father and grandfather, they will call him "Bear" at least for now. Robert is a nice name, although very common and traditional. It was 71st most popular for boys in 2018 and it's one of those names that has been popular for a long time. Bear is an unusual nickname for Robert. Theodore is commonly nicknamed Ted or Teddy and is rising in popularity so I could see Bear used as nickname more often. Anyway nicknames can be changed and he can go by something else when he's older. This child is the first boy for Meagan and Bobby. They have two daughters. The oldest girl is named Harper and will turn 3 soon. The second girl is named Marlie and she will be 2 in September after her brother is born. Meagan and Bobby were married in November 2015 and will celebrate 5 years of marriage in November 2020. (In case, people don't remember Meagan is the sister of Joy Duggar's husband Austin.)

Yes although all of the Duggars and their friends seem wise enough not to let a pregnancy get to 45 weeks. There are all kinds of old wives tales about the "good old days" where people went way over their due dates. I think now technology is more accurate about tracking due dates, conception, etc. and going over due dates is more dangerous. Although the article does go to warn about the dangers about ignoring doctors for wisdom on the internet. And it's always good to remember childbirth is dangerous and can be deadly.

I don't. I think Jill moved in part to get away from CPS. Jill was probably brought up to believe and probably thinks the government for the most part is evil. She's a fan girl for certain politicians, but she probably doesn't like big government. Even if CPS felt she was a great or good or adequate mother, Jill probably was spooked enough that she moved away. I also don't think the CPS visit went that well. If the kids are underfed as everyone claims, then CPS may have concerns they at least wanted Jill to address. I still have no idea why they picked Ohio. I guess political reasons. I'm sorry Tim found the facebook group. I always assume no one fundie reads here. There's a reason I prefer a forum to Twitter, or other social media, where it seems like everyone sees anything. And I think there are lot of bad and dangerous components to religious fundamentalism, which can be good to address. Still it's not good for Tim to have his mother's world view reinforced that they are deeply persecuted by the world. The Rods seem to have a much smaller platform compared to most of the other fundies. The Duggars and Bates have the television show. The Maxwell have their blog and their books. The Rods have their ministy, a blog and mainly these their social media. Their social media is confusing, because I'm never sure how many of their social media followers are like-minded fundies and how many are snarkers. I'm glad the kids aren't cooped up in Jill's barndominium. I think I was right that Jill won't spend a lot of time there and just use it as a base. Good! That place makes me sad. I hope Tim doesn't move home, because it's too small for the family without him.

I don't know if Jill refused the c-section, but that sounds likely based on the timeline. But this is speculation. It's consistant with how I remembered the timeline, but I was going based on what TLC (which deliberately confused everything) and People reported. And yes they could be both be wrong, but considering how everything they did say looked bad enough, why lie? And if we can't go with the only records we have, then we have no information to basis opinions on! I remember that this seemed like an awfully long time to wait for a c-section, but according to the sources I've found this is what happened. We started down this debate, because I'm tired of people shaming women (many of whom are friends and relatives) for having c-sections. And saying that the woman should have tried harder to avoid it, makes sound it's something that must be avoided. It's fine that Jill had a c-section. It's fine that they planned for a vaginal birth and then had to do a c-section. It does seem nuts to me that Jill spent hours in labor well past the point where the solution should have been obvious.

Most of Jill in labor wasn't shown on TLC. They basically cut from the baby shower to the c-section I agree that the Duggars count lots of pre-labor. They're not the only people who do that. However I do think it's possible Jill was in the hospital probably for some time before they had the c-section. Most doctors won't perform one against the patient's will if she is conscious.

Anna Marie wrote a blog post about her surgery on Tuesday. "Surgery went very well, though due to the continued growth and location of the tumor, the surgeon recommended a more extensive surgery than we were originally hoping for. Christopher and I understood the necessity and agreed that it was best the approach at this point. While the tumor was very close to the chest wall, following surgery the surgeon said it appears that it had not yet penetrated. The surgeon removed some lymph nodes for testing, so once pathology comes back in about a week, we will know the full nature of the tumor and whether it has spread into the lymph system. I am feeling great other than some muscle-type soreness (feels like I just did a left-armed pushup workout yesterday after not doing them for a few months), but I’m not in pain. That’s what we had heard about the laser surgery from other ladies who had come here, and it seems to be holding true for me as well. We came back to our hotel shortly after surgery, and I’ve been getting good rest, eating well, and have been walking frequently at the recommendation of the surgeon. We have loved seeing photos and updates of our children’s activities sent to us from Grandma and the aunties. It’s hard to believe Ruthanne turned six years old yesterday! I remember her birth like it was yesterday … only it seems like it was forever ago in many ways. She was thrilled to help decorate cupcakes for her birthday celebration last night (her second celebration since we did our own family party on Saturday)!" This does sound better than I expected. There was more to post where Anna Marie thanked people for their prayers. No mention of thanking the doctor/surgeon/medical staff.

She gave birth late Monday night close to midnight on Tuesday. Here's what fundie wiki has to say: "Twenty hours into labor, they saw a faint sign of meconium and moved to a hospital. Jill initially declined Pitocin to speed her labor. After seventy hours of labor, the baby had flipped into a transverse breech position and experienced irregular heart rates. At this time, the couple and their doctors made the decision to move forward with a C-section." According to that statement she was in the hospital for 50 of the 70 hours of labor. This is consistant with my memory that she was actually in the hospital a long time before they discovered the transverse position and decided to a c-section. Also why Jill has never stated whether she tried to have a homebirth with Sam.

Yikes!

Yes I think so. The girl in the top left corner pink shirt looks familar, but I can't place her.

Israel wasn't breech; he was transverse. Breech is feet first; traverse is sideways. One thing that has never made sense about Israel's birth is that Jill was supposedly in the hospital from at least Sunday to Monday and yet the hosptial didn't catch the baby was traverse until at least 24 hours later? It's still possible Jill could have done everything right and ended up with a c-section. And there's nothing wrong with c-sections.