SueB

Finally had my full second watch (I watched the barn scene a bunch). I wanted proper time to 'savor' the series finale. I always pick up more. Look, if you despised the finale... move along... these are not the droids you're looking for. It's not a gushfest but I hold no bitterness so... you've been warned. But this post IS going to be long-winded. So strap in, skim or skip. There will be a Bottom Line for the TL;DR. This finale was not a 'once and done' for me. And I can see why Jensen took some time but then was totally on board. My first reaction was generally "okay, the concept hits all the beats" but I didn't like some choices. So, I took a few days to think it over. I listened to some stuff (cast interviews, the panel bits, etc..) and while I'm not sure any ending would have been "perfect", this was was 'pretty damned good' IMO. Let me start with some elements that affected my POV: 1) 'A big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff' After my initial watch, THIS was the issue I struggled the most with. HOW MUCH TIME HAS PASSED? I just could not abide with the notion that their first hunt post Chuck-deposing was where Dean died. The good new is. it wasn't. When I looked objectively at the scene that started with Dean's alarm at 8am until his death --- I couldn't find ANY spare time. All in-show evidence suggests that on that SAME day, including laundry day and gun cleaning activities, THAT was the day the Dean found the pie-fest in Akron. The family who were attacked were AT the pie-fest. They picked up the case while there and that's where Dean died. The end. This is where my initial reaction came from. But it didn't 'feel' right. It would imply they were only awesome at hunting because Chuck spared them. I can't accept that. I watched those 15 years. It wasn't all luck. And that last fight was pretty par. These two humans were taking on 4 big vamps and generally DID beat them. The 'hook' being on the post was luck for the big vamp but really, it wasn't skill on the vamp's part. It wasn't until the application on Dean's desk was brought up that I found the 'thread' (like Bobby in his original Heaven) that was just OUT OF PLACE. See, I was looking for time AFTER the alarm clock. The time that had passed was after 'THEN' but before 'NOW'. Second viewing made it really clear. Evidence: the 'normal routine' was not what you do when you have just been through a trauma. We MISSED the post-apocalypse trauma. They were both far too 'normal' for it to have been recent. Sam stopped on his run, just to enjoy the view. Dean was (apparently) considering a job (maybe part-time?). In 15.19 Sam found Dean sleeping with booze. Even if Dean was super well adjusted, he doesn't go from that to happily greeting Miracle in the morning in just a few days. Dean so even keel when Sam mentions he misses Cas & Jack (because they were having a happy time moment)? Nah. The wounds had healed over a bit before that conversation. So.. yes, TIME had passed. And I wonder if the hunts were slowing down a bit. At the end of at the end of S1, Bobby remarked at how Demon possession was a 3 or 4 times a year thing and he knew of 27 at that point in the year. I'll save the rest of that for "Speculation Land" (see below). So, HOW MUCH TIME? I'm going to say 'enough'. Enough that they had been on routine hunts that the guns were being kept up. Enough that they had come to grips with living the life Cas sacrificed for them. Enough that Sam being in charge of breakfast and new when to start the toast was able to be calculated. Finally, enough that any taint of Chuck being somehow more responsible for their existence than we already knew is not something I believe we were told. Sure, Chuck saved them (or nudged the Pastor's choice) in Faith. And between deals and direct intervention, past deaths didn't stick. But they WERE the hunters we thought they were and this episode did not screw that up IMO. THAT is what I needed. Heaven was a REAL wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey thing. Fast or slow, it seems, DEFINITELY not linear. 2) Real-world global pandemic It was hard NOT to see the impact of COVID on the finale. Dean's heaven starts at Harvelle's for pity's sake. It should have been crowded. I would have liked to have seen all the old characters but it's not a deal breaker for me. Fuzzy Sam wife. Debate-able if this was always the plan or COVID driven. When watching the episode, the existence of COVID allowed me to personally 'fill in the blank'. Works for me. No Cas. I don't think Cas was EVER coming back, the last episode was ALWAYS going to be Sam & Dean focused. So, while some have speculated this impact, it's not something I see as a 'thing'. No one at Dean's funeral. Again, I think this was ALWAYS going to be solo. This was a Sam & Dean moment. And Sam was no where near ready to open up a vein for well-intentioned friends to share. 3) Intentional "Open to Interpretation" After 15.18, I could see 'the man behind the curtain' (i.e. the writers), making sure we could 'Goosebumps' this puppy for a long time to come. Cas' speech in 15.18 may be crystal clear to some, but I think the ambiguity thing was intentional. And knowing that, I could see the 'open to interpretation' machinery even on FIRST viewing. Who is Sam's 'partner'? I assumed "wife" but they intentionally fuzzed that one. Did Sam give up hunting? The arm tattoo on Dean Jr suggests he held no secrets from his family but no clue about actual hunting. Is the MOL bunker gathering dust? Don't know. Sam wasn't living there but who is to say whether or not he called up someone to take over caretaking the library (AUCharlie?) What does "the Heaven Dean deserves" mean? "All the walls were down". But there are real practical issues to how that would actually work because ... free will and all. So... that's a big old pile of Mystery Soup. I think they left up the speculation to the fanfic writers and vagued that up a bit on purpose -- because there IS no clear answer on how to make it 'perfect'. So they left it vague. ... and NOW onto actual EPISODE THOUGHTS 1) This was Dean's happy ending Seriously, his 'happy ever after' was Sam dying old; "You, with a wife and kids and -- and -- and grandkids, living till you're fat and bald and chugging Viagra -- that is my perfect ending, (S8.14) Dean didn't see that Sam would be forever 'wounded' in his happy ending, but Dean wanted his Sammy to live til old age. As I've often said, Dean was more like a father to Sam. The ONLY way Dean has a happy ending is if he dies first. Anything else would have been too cruel. And Sam KNEW it. He expected to die hunting - but it's normal to not be 'READY' when it actually happens. All their lives they died or prepared for death. This one, being the final one, coming out of the blue saved him from the angst we've seen before when they knew death was near. Dean was ready for the natural order to continue on. No deals, no appeals. He fought damn hard to stop Supernatural influence effecting the world. And he was at peace with this being his end. Heaven was AWESOME. He was not going to live alone in Memorex land. And after a relatively quick drive in Baby, Sammy was there (see "wibbly-wobbly timey wimey") and Dean's 'peace' was done. I'm happy with Dean's ending. If there was ANYONE who deserved a happy ending it was Dean Winchester. He went out a badass hunter (the vamp got lucky, at best). His knees still worked. He never gave up cheeseburgers or booze. Most people are not that lucky. I also don't think he COULD have settled down to a white picket fence. And he was good with that. He had already raised one child (Sam) and co-parented two others (Ben, then Jack). And if he was good with it, then I am too. Finally, the vagueness of what was to come in Heaven allows me to assume it was all sunshine and lollipops (or strippers and ice-cream or ..... your personal Goosebump version) for forever. 2) This was a good, but not perfect, end for Sam At the start of the show, Sam could have gone on to live without Dean and been at real peace. But not after the last 15 years. That ship had sailed. So part of Sam's ending was knowing that after ALL those years Dean took care of him, Sam living on after him was a way of HONORING Dean's memory. And he did have a good life. A son who he clearly loved. I'm assuming a wife/partner he loved as well. There was real joy as he swung toddler Dean around. But Sam was haunted for the rest of his days. And his Heaven was always going to wind up next to Dean. Maybe with the timey-wimey stuff Sam could also spend time with his wife/partner (who I'm presuming preceded him in death) without it impacting Dean. I'm okay with Sam's ending. I think Sam's bittersweet life post-Dean allowed him to fulfill parts of his longing that he still probably had. I don't know if it was with Eileen or someone else but he got to raise his OWN child. Not everyone needs that in their life but the joy on Sam's face was real. And this is something Dean knew. So... I think Sam was good with his ending and thus so am I. 3) The story concept was excellent IMO They wanted a definitive 'end'. I think they earned it. Someone may come along and rip-up the Heaven they have but they wanted to show that there WAS peace when they were done. That the boys got their happy ending. After 15 years, I think the show (and I mean cast, and crew, not just the writers and producers) deserve to end the show if they wanted to. The 'extra time' between THEN and NOW does allow for more Winchester stories before their happy ever after in Heaven. And then there's the potential for AU trips and even still a post-Heaven comeback. It's Supernatural ya'll; there are very few boundaries. The ....Goosebump fuzziness of it all allows for fan 'dial a story' in Heaven or on the Earth and interpret character's wishes. So, IMO, if a Destiel fan wants to believe that shortly after the bridge scene, Dean finds Cas and they have some big moment... that's not 'wrong'. That's not prevented. Or if they want to believe the next stop was a repeat of the 'meat casserole' at John & Mary's ... that works too. It ALL works. 4) The acting was SUBLIME I'd put that death scene in the barn against ANY Emmy or Oscar winning performance and say that it stands up against them well. Jensen continues to tell everything with his face, his gasps, his eyes. I could write a freaking THESIS on everything that appeared to be going through Dean's mind because Jensen made us SEE it all with his acting. It's all poignant, loving, heartbreaking and overwhelming. And Jared was superb as well. Jensen has the perfect 'single tear' face. Jared just let's it all go with the ugly crying. And I FELT IT. I felt Sam's agony. How hard it was for Sam to say 'it's okay, you can go now Dean'. The 'normal day' was just adorable. Miracle hoping into Dean's bed and him hugging him? JOYFUL. Sam apparently at peace with the world (as he admires the Vancouver view). With only a few words, that sequence gave us a complete vision of happy hunter's lifestyle. I liked it a lot. 5) The actual script had some ups and down Ups: Normal day, pie!, Cas helped redesign heaven. Jack is 'hands-off'. Sam had a son named Dean and he had a hunter's tatoo. Sam couldn't live in the bunker anymore. Sam missed Dean, no matter how long it had been since he died. Bobby being the one to welcome Dean to Heaven. Downs: It took effort to see the 'time' between THEN and NOW. It should have been self-evident and not up for debate. Why cut off the Mom's tongue? That was weird We never got to see Dean's reaction to Cas' 'I love you' statement. I know 'vague' was the right answer fandom-wise but story-wise, it was clunky IMO to never see any callback to Cas feelings. [yes, I know, ANY choice there would have been worse than vague... reaction was already rough as it is]. For the record, I could live with any outcome EVENTUALLY. I think an immediate answer from Dean would have made no sense. I tend to lean towards a not-romantic future but I don't begrudge anyone who wants that. 6) Production was pretty good with a few clinkers Good stuff: Everything about the bunker was GORGEOUS (laundry!). Heaven was beautiful. I loved seeing Harvelle's. The Impala porn was nice. Those boys sure do look good in Fed suits. Fan service chest shot. Did I mention Dean hugging Miracle? I could talk more about that... The little personal touches to script and clothing that Jensen and Jared made The J2 goodbye, the bridge show "Cut". That was fan-f*cking-tastic IMO. It was a piece of 'closure' for me I didn't know I needed. Clinkers: Having "Carry On" IN the show was good, but I missed the montage. Maybe they should have done it for 15.19 as THAT was the season wrap - or maybe they should have done a montage that started with "Pilot" but I missed it. Those masks were nope. I get it (COVID), but nope. The party-store wig for early-old Sam; I thought hair and makeup did well for dying Sam. Bottom Line for the TL;DR: After re-watch and some on-line fans attention to detail, I realized that 15.20 was NOT immediately after 15.19. And THAT got rid of the one initial snag that got in the way of me really enjoying the episode the first time. With that knowledge in mind, the second watch was EXCELLENT. I like the way they ended the show. Dean's death scene was world-class acting IMO from J2. There were some clunky bits in the script and production but I'm AT PEACE with the ending. I think this one will age well. Can't ask for much more that that. SPECULATION LAND: It had been at LEAST a year. Dean and Sam were just too well adjusted for it to have been weeks or months. Dean's job application was for part-time work (good way to stay in shape, not for money) because hunting had slowed down now that so many "Big Bads" had been put away in the past 15 years and Chuck wasn't mucking shit up. Plus Rowena runs a tight ship in hell. So ordinary monsters probably learned how to stay off the radar (e.g. long-term blood feeders). Sam WAS married, it could have been Eileen but I think it could have also been someone else. I think he stopped hunting. I suspect he took care of the werewolves. Sam likely passed on the Bunker to a group of hunters. Maybe Jody is in charge but it could have been someone else. Someone should write that fic. Dean WILL see Cas in Heaven and it is whatever they both want it to be. Cas got his wings back. Miracle is a good boy who ends up in Heaven with Sam and Dean

Well I cried. I get the ending. It was peaceful. There’s a lot to unpack. things that come to mind: - Cas helped redesign Heaven. HE’s not in the Empty - They get to visit everyone. - I missed the opening montage but really liked the music cue in Heaven. - Like I said, a lot to unpack. I’ll rewatch again.

I've been trying to find the right way to "prep" for the finale. I think spending some time going through each and every video in this list was the perfect choice for me. https://tvline.com/lists/supernatural-best-music-moments-list/#comment-list-wrapper

We have "day of" BTS photos that put them in the barn scene being filmed under COVID restrictions. It's definitely this episode.

Someone recorded the audio for her question regarding the big Cas scene. I put the link to the tweet transcript in the episode thread. As it was directly about how he thought Dean was reacting in that moment.

A fan asked THE question in the small group M&G and transcribed the answer (click to read lovely, nuanced answer):

My thought: No way they end a HORROR show with a happy montage. So yes, a hunt next week. I don't think Chuck comes back, but I think the episode will feel like "You thought you were safe? FOOLED YOU!" No clue on plot, no clue of real ending. But it's going Horror trope IMO.

Rewatched, as I usually do. This really DID feel like the end. But it's not, so I'm interested in next week. Onto my specific thoughts on plot, mythology, character, production (see Bottom Line for the TL; DR): Plot: I generally LIKE the plot. hee (nice characterization). True. It was. The family business is 'saving people, hunting things'. There were no people, no things to hunt. Existential nightmare and all. I also liked that the boys knew the players so well that they could MacGyver a solution using a book with empty pages as the key McGuffin. I personally LIKED the flashback (generally I don't but we've seen about 6 different 'plans' fail this season -- so I was ready for a reveal version). I liked the team effort - Sam and Dean (I think) expected Chuck to torture and then kill them, all the while expending "God energy" for Jack to absorb. I feel like they must have been giggling a bit that it was an old fashioned beat-down -- kept it going a bit, got Jack more power. As a 'season ender', it definitely resolved the main issue: agency. They got their agency back, they were free. Not getting Cas back makes no sense but they didn't explain Jack's capabilities so... who knows what plotonium prevented that. Mythology: This is the part I liked the least. BL always get the heavy lifting mythology scripts and once again, they did the LoL!Canon moves and super shortcuts, making leaps to get from point A to point B. Individual threads: "God power is good"- the only part I liked. It says that the creations (nature and people) are inherently God creations and that the godpower in them is a good thing. I'm a believer in "man is inherently good" philosophy. "You can switch Gods" - yeah, not my favorite. Now it IS consistent with the theory that everything Supernatural can be defeated is a variation on a preexisting theme ('same sort of monster, just a bigger ego'). So it's not out of the blue. I just don't relate to it. At all. For those that do, congrats. Just not my cup of tea. "Jack is nuGod" - well, IF you are replacing God, Jack is the best choice IMO. He's the amalgamation of Sam, Dean, Castiel, and Kelly. With nurture clearly beating nature. And we've bought INTO Sam/Dean/Cas's world view. So, in essence THEIR world view, with some serious Zen from Amara mixed in, is the nuGod. It's a bit of an ultimate win for TFW that their "son" is the big guy (hands off). 'Absorbing part of the Empty made Jack a power 'black hole': Works as a concept but the selective way it turned on and off was classic BL plothole. They've had worse. 'Death DOES outlast Chuck' - While simultaneously being part of the created universe. It means Death as an fact of 'nature' is beyond the being that created it. Could have secrets (the book) that the creator couldn't read. I'm chalking that one up to "mystery". And I'm okay with it. 'Heaven/Hell are ... not addressed' - I assume Jack can take care of the souls in Heaven (IF they are still there). And I can imagine NO ONE from either plane of existence was going to show up with Chuck laser focused on toying with The Winchesters. BUT, I'd like to know if that construct still exists? Character: Ah, the GOOD stuff. This, for me, has always been a character driven show so this is what I NEED to have done right in order to be okay with the show. I'd say it was generally done right but a little skimpy. Sam: Felt guilty that he stopped Dean on his revenge tour to kill Chuck and so he proposed the 'surrender' strategy. Now it's a flawed guilt concept because Chuck WROTE IT. And Dean was never going to kill Sam over it. BUT, it's classic Sam and he (like Dean) would gladly play Chuck's game to save people. I liked that when he woke Dean from his bender that it was with compassion because of the loss of Cas. I wish we had seen Sam react more to Cas' death. At least a conversation with Jack would have been warranted. OTOH, that Cas would sacrifice himself to save Dean is something Sam would accept without question. Dean: Excellent end point - rejecting the 'killer' label and accepting Cas' truth regarding who he really is. That was a truly satisfying moment. Drunken stoicism about Cas' death - yep, that coping mechanism seems permanent. Would I have LIKED to see him open a vein about Cas' death? Why yes, I would. But it's unrealistic that he'd be ready to talk about that anytime soon. That was a LOT to process. I expect a plethora of fanfic will show up with the entire spectrum of interpretations of what Dean's response will be. I AM pissed that they did not have Dean retract the "Jack is not family" statement. On the one hand, a direct retraction is not always said on this show. AND the initials on the table seemed to be pretty much "family only" IMO. But I really didn't like him saying that in the first place and wanted it erased. I'll take the initials as a peace offering and move on. Jack: The little nougat that could. Good ending. I think he's the right being for the job, especially with Amara 'balanced' inside. I could have used a little Amara snark popping out so that we knew she had agency. I'm bothered by her lack of direct commentary. I REALLY needed a hug with Sam and Dean at the end and was denied. Was that a production choice, a plot point, COVID? I think it was a plot point - in which case I don't like the aloofness. He's still Jack. He may have Amara's wisdom and Winchester values but if he's still Jack, being able to talk to Sam and Dean over dinner from time to time would be good. Again, I at least wanted a hug. Chuck: WHAT A DISSAPPOINTMENT. He was full-on evil to the bitter end. I do like that his just desserts are to actually BE the nebbish-y guy with no powers and a HACK writer (assuming he tries that). But I was hoping he would learn something from it all. After EONs to have his ego finally get out of control to where he's fighting his initial rules (e.g free will) seems ... meh. I mean I GET the Winchesters are stubborn, but stubborn enough to drive Chuck off the rails and actually get involved in the story (which Jack said was his downfall)? IDK. He's has 'press clippings' for centuries from the various Earths - why did they go to his head in the last century to the point that he made so many mistakes? I don't know. Arrogant distant god-figure is par. Driven to evil monologuing due to flannel? Mmmmmm... nope. Micheal: Without Lucifer he is BORING. Not insane like AU Michael. And foisted another retcon (is Michael responsible for religions??). Lucifer: Still pathetically giggly to be called on by Dad. Still snappy dialog. Didn't really need him for the episode but gave me a few chuckles. Production: To be completely honest, the 'all people are gone' plot was already there because the script was done pre-COVID. MAYBE they *poofed* them versus having them drop dead where they stood as a COVID thing? 18 was pre-COVID though so... IDK. Regardless, the lack of people made the COVID restrictions pretty seamless IMO. If I look for them, I can absolutely see them. But if I didn't know, I wouldn't have noticed. I think the director did well with the script he had. Again, Buck-Lemming squeeze too much in, making it smooth is tough. Kudos to Post-Production for the songs and the montage. I DID like the montage. Missed Lisa and Ben. Maybe because they 'got out?' Extra bonus points for getting Jody's voice mail (Kim Rhodes got a credit!). I suspect we lost her actual presence in the episode (although not sure when it would be). Bottom Line for the TL;DR: Plot was generally good with a satisfying return of agency for the boys. Mythology was iffy, I'm not cool with casually swapping out "God" (it points out the weakness of Chuck as the villain in the first place IMO). The character work was delicious as always. Production did well. I will watch again but it's not anywhere near my top 20 episodes. A solid wrap up, how I feel about it depends on next week I think.

The big fight scene, in the barn, with a clown (ie scene 28) must be next week. Normal hunt?

All excellent points. And it continues the theme of the Winchesters change people forever.

I liked: - Jack apparently told the boys something was up with him - The Winchesters played Luci/Michael/Chuck. - Jack fulfilled his destiny and brought back everyone (I think) - Sam & Dean were a lock solid team - The ‘Chuck is Evil’ plot is over NGL: I didn’t ‘love it’ except for the dog and the montage I’m cheesed off at Buck-Lemming for faux ending the series. It feels like next week is superfluous. I want a big emotional ending and I don’t feel it right now. Here’s hoping there’s more heart next week.

Apparently Misha was clear that Jensen was totally on board. Read whole thread to see that part.

I think the explosion changed his cosmic force. I don’t think it’s angelic anymore. I think he’s absorbed part of the nature of the Empty without the crazy. The effect on the leaf was closer to an Amara effect than anything else. So... I don’t know what it is or if he can control it.

I thought it was a beautiful ending for Cas. I also think there was something for everyone in how it was written. I just LOVED the callback to Dean’s nature changing someones’s existence. - Once again it’s Dean’s embodiment of AGAPE (self-sacrificing LOVE) that shapes destiny. He absolutely shaped Castiel’s existence after they met by just being himself. Dean was the perfect man in that regard. His love for others, his passionate protection of humanity. Cas experienced love because of Dean. And as @ahrtee suggested, Cas realized all he had to do was to speak his truth to Dean, to get Dean to understand what a gift loving him was — that’s all he needed for happiness. I loved how Misha played it like an epiphany. Cas was so CERTAIN he had found his happiness. And knowing that this happiness would SAVE DEAN made it a joyeous Death. Cas died with no regrets, he went out like a Boss. Damn but I love that Angel. I also really felt the growing despair as they realized the odds were cosmically bad. Sam said just the perfect thing to take the sting out of Dean’s guilt. And he had Rowena’s spells with him! For some reason, Sam’s instinct to gather and protect felt like a callback to when they destroyed the Croatoan virus in S5. He was reaching out again and again to protect people. It’s his instinct. It felt very ‘Sam’. Pure hearted. Jack blowing up the Empty appears to be the visual we’ve been seeing as the title card all year. Like he torn up the fabric of reality. i was fine with Lisa’s performance as Death. She was ‘Classic Death’ at the start — cool and mysterious. But once cut, it’s like she said ‘f*ck it (the rules). I’m going to get some payback. I was a wee distracted from her pregnant body - the sweater was a little clingy over her baby bump, but I thought she played her rage very well. From my perspective, we know the show is ending. I couldn’t stand the notion of Cas living forever after Dean (eventually) dies. Going out in a blaze of agape love was a perfect ending IMO for the awkward Angel of Thursday.

Rob is so sweet. And Emily is fun. I’d pay cash for a long beautiful half a head of hair on Amuck.

Jensen took the time to ‘like’ this CW Instagram post. Maybe he’s just scrolling and liked that scene. I don’t know. But it seems noteworthy. https://www.instagram.com/p/CG-vWMQlxVn/?igshid=16qhl96krwn4e

It occurred to me this morning that ‘the quest’ Jack went on is nothing but a sham. Billie is prepping him, but the actions are kinda random IMO. Eating hearts of the Gregori. Getting his soul out of Eden. Powering up through Adam’s rib. We’ve had 3 trials before. Seems like a Chuck thing. But these are Billies instructions. That’s the only thing that causes me to pause. For the sake of ‘what if’: what if Chuck just made up 3 trials to help build momentum for Dean to allow Jack to die? - So, eating Gregori hearts - Jack does something sketchy that demonstrates his desperation to please. And Chuck restores his body. Dean sees they have a possible solution to the nightmare he’s living - We get a story about a Ruby/Sister Jo alliance. The ‘vision’ of the garden is just and excuse to give Jack his soul back and express remorse regarding Mary. Dean still doesn’t consider Jack family - he ‘others’ Jack. - Sketchy Adams Rib quest. Jack lights the fuse towards self-immolation. Puts Dean in a ‘too late to change the plan’ mode, feeling guilty about using Jack but desperate to kill Chuck to make all this worthwhile. In sum, if Billie wasn’t involved in setting the 3 trials, they seem Chuck-designed.

While I'm not a fan, Dabb's constant big-eyed T-shirts aren't a specific comic character. It's Pop Surrealism (aka, no kidding, "Lowbrow") - which DOES have a comic (in this case comix book) element - which is what is often picked up on. He seems to be a fan of a particular artist. And yes, the sexual element is there plus the big eyes and theoretically social commentary (which I totally don't know what I'm suppose to get out of it). Personally, I find it pretentious. Like the show runner is 'too cool' for his own show and thus doesn't wear Supernatural T-shirts. I prefer geeks like Kripke who nerd out over his own stuff.

Felicia Day said she's coming back in this week's episode (on Twitter). Seems like a massive tonal change from the Despair title.

Chuck's speech to Amara has a lot of hints in it IMO (transcript from Supernaturalwiki): 1) 'So I can't read my Death book.' - well that makes "omniscient" an overstatement. He is NOT, in fact, 'all-knowing'. Because not only can he not read his Death book, he didn't know Dean would once again assert his free will and not kill Sam. Free will is a weakness - still. That Death can reap him is a weakness - still. 2) '... plant a few visions' - Who had visions? What am I forgetting? What part of the story was not real? 3) '... goad Death a little' - What has Chuck done that has pissed Death off? Is it taking out other universes? That seems real - Amara knows it and I don't think Chuck is planting visions in her head. Is it all the crazy of S15 (demon resurrections, poofing Becky & family to ... somewhere, generally going completely off-script for many deaths? Looking back, she really decided to make her move by bringing Jack back. SHE directly engaged with her own agenda at that point. So, was killing Jack directly in Moriah (after Dean had stopped) what pissed her off. It's not like she cares if Jack dies (that's his fate in her plan) ... but that Chuck did it? I ponder this because she's the key player here and if she has the ability to REAP Chuck, then who created her? 4) '...mess with a few outcomes' - Which outcomes? It feels like Chuck didn't get his writing mojo back until after he met with Becky (My real ending.). So... was it all the bad luck stuff? Or is he going back to having Jack kill Mary? It seems like his target in this story was Dean's anger... taking Dean to the edge. Again. Maybe making it clear that he was toying with them was the outcomes he means. And then there's other BIG reveals IMO: What I take from this exchange: 1) Chuck DOES have sway (as apparently is pissed about it). 2) "realities, dimensions, graves" - theoretically other universes (realities, dimensions...) come back? Which is a disconnect with AU Bobby and AU Charlie dying (per Sam) in the reset. Was Sam lying or confused? 3) The Empty can be summoned to Earth. Why mention it unless they intend to pull that lever? And finally, Amara - who appears to be the wisest of them all - talks about balance. I notice that NONE of the heavy hitters in play are completely all-powerful (Chuck can't read his Death book, Billy needs help killing God, the Entity can't come to Earth....). Billy's solution does not provide balance. Neither does Chuck's. For the show to end properly, we're gonna need some balance (I think).

Based on nothing but this episode... I don't think Amara is gone. It DOES feel too anti-climatic. And Chuck, like every other villain, forgot that those "two denim-clad nightmares" (TM Crowley) were left on the board. Speaking of Crowley, I'm thrilled we got Meg, but I wonder if they had thought of bringing back Crowley for the body of the Empty? Other things that make me go .....hmmmm. Chuck as much as admitted, Amara and Dean can't hurt each other. Dean could lie to her but ... not hurt her? And now he's absorbed Amara. Did Amara just fool Chuck into achieving balance by taking her in -- and she's going to neuter his ass? He won't be able to kill Dean? Of course, he could still kill Sam -- which means you might as well kill Dean. Did she become an honorary Winchester by sacrificing herself to stop Chuck? Which... puts the Winchester's record of changing the trajectory of characters to batting near 1000. And BTW, if there is a reset via Billy ...reset to WHEN? Before Michael arranged a Cupid to have Mary and John fall in love? Before YED gave Sam demon blood? Or... just, Dean dies from the Rawhead and Sam leads the demon army? Or.. Dean lives but no deal for Sam? Or Dean goes to Hell, but Cas doesn't get him out? (That was a pivotal moment, per Chuck in tonight's episode, where Cas goes off script). Death officially became a pawn in the Apocalypse time... maybe it's a reset to before Sam starts working with Ruby and brings back (unintentionally) Lucifer. Lots of questions.

Well that was intense. it hurt to hear Dean say Jack wasn’t family. I think it’s his anger. He’s so focused on killing Chuck. He spent his life NOT being John. Not giving into an all-consuming hatred. But he sure felt like he was channeling John. The coldness with which he proceeded. The way he KNEW it was wrong but used the ends to justify his actions. All this was Not!Dean. It was Dean completely surrendering to his anger. And it was hard to watch. And of course Sam, and only Sam, is going to pull him back from the edge. It’s way they are successful. In every other incarnation, they are not unified. But they are in this Universe. It’s not stubborn. It’s love (brotherly). Agape love. In this version Dean taught Sam what agape looked like and Sam didn’t give up on Dean. He threw himself in front of Dean’s anger because he knew that this cold & angry Dean was not his true nature. And once again, Sam’s well-justifies faith in who Dean is pulls Dean back from making a mistake he ultimately would not have been able to live with. And honestly, Sam pulling Dean out of the mental distortion he was experiencing is just normal ‘balance’ for the brothers. Certainly (IMO) ‘there ain’t no Sam if there ain’t no Dean’. So, I’m cool with Dean listening to Sam. Dean was already 3/4ths the way there. If he wasn’t, Sam wouldn’t have gotten through to him. Other bits: - I feel like TFW DID beat Chuck. Chuck REALLY thought he could exploit Dean’s anger and again... TFW stopped his preferred ending. - I’m NOT happy he ‘absorbed’ Amara. I hope she breaks out. Give him indigestion Amara! I really like her and, again, Chuck manipulates her. - Adam was ‘meh’, but he feels like a Chuck plant. - I totally buy Death got duped by Chuck- and that Chuck has manipulated Death’s weaknesses. - I love seeing ‘Meg‘ again. Her personality suited The Empty. It’s a nice fit IMO. - Jack breaks mY heart. He feels so worthless (because of Mary). And it’s not just Dean’s anger. He already imprinted on all of TFW, he was always going to feel worthless because of Mary. But it’s hard to see that lack of self-worth. - I could have done without Angelic fans. Bottom line: they’ve sprung the trap. We all saw it coming. Now we’re off the edge of the map. I’m anxious and excited to see where it goes.

Yeah. Listening to an interview with Jess from "The Mary Sue" and Misha, Misha said 17 and 18 are sort of one combined episode. Which would make sense from a "Castiel dies" perspective. One thing that gives me pause is a picture of Cas & Jack talking at the back of the Impala. We haven't seen that shot yet and it doesn't seem like it's in the next two episodes. We'll see.

@Casseiopeia wrote up the last 4 eps.. Since I don’t do ‘bitter’, but was going to write something similar, I wanted to acknowledge that there’s a similar topic in the other thread if that’s your preferred response area. The last 4 episodes and what we know: 15.17 Unity - ONE WAY OR ANOTHER – Dean (Jensen Ackles) hits the road with Jack (Alexander Calvert) who needs to complete a final ritual in the quest to beat Chuck (guest star Rob Benedict). A difference of opinion leaves Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Castiel (Misha Collins) behind looking for answers to questions of their own. Catriona McKenzie directed the episode written by Meredith Glynn (#1517). Original airdate 10/29/2020. Pictures/Promo tell us: Sam/Cas look for another way, Dean/Jack go to load his power up for his suicide run, Amara shows up in the bunker. Looks like Dean/Jack deal with literal Adam and Eve (who have a hippie vibe going). Amara appears to make a gateway (not a floating space thing but a doorway) in the wall. At some point all 4 are with Amara. SPPT video combined with a wardrobe cross-check has this the Billy episode where she shows her cards. Exchange with Natalie Fischer (who watched the episode last night) Apparently screeners were sent out - it's a Sam heavy episode. I'm betting $5 that Sam kills Death. Also very cry-worthy. Does Cas make his deal more concrete? (speculation on my part) 15.18 Despair - RICHARD SPEIGHT, JR. DIRECTS – With the plan in full motion, Sam (Jared Padalecki), Dean (Jensen Ackles), Castiel (Misha Collins) and Jack (Alexander Calvert) fight for the good of the common goal. Richard Speight, Jr. directed the episode written by Robert Berens (#1518). Original airdate 11/5/2020. Well THIS sounds awful. As in sad (not a bitterness comment) 15.19 Inherit the Earth CARRY ON – Everything is on the line as the battle against God (guest star Rob Benedict) continues. A familiar face returns to join the fight. The episode was directed by John Showalter and written by Eugenie Ross-Leming & Brad Buckner (#1519). Original airdate 11/12/2020. Breaking down the set photos, "Au Revoir" SPPT video was filmed during the big 3-day shoot fight scene. Which appears to take place in a barn, with at least one clown. Also appears the scene is only Sam and Dean in the fight - could be that's the only footage we've seen. This clearly has Michael in it based on Jake's Instagram. 15.20 Carry On Based on the SPPT video, Jack is in the last episode. Clear BTS shots of him with the boys and Robert Singer (director). Also, Sam gets scraped up in the face. Sam is in red plaid shirt, Dean in light blue over black T. I suspect Charlie and Donna and Bobbie are in this episode. 15.19 seems too "epic" for hugs. I screenshot a TON of photos from the video but they are so big (in terms of image size). I played the SPPT video at .25 speed. Lots of stuff in there.

Response Taken to spoilers with speculation