SueB

Wouldn't you know it.

Good point. Plus pragmatically, he needs to be able to reason with Dean. Otherwise Dean could just turn on him and Hell would be frankly in chaos as Dean is not interested in ruling it. I wrote up the "what's wrong with Sammy" theory in the Black episode thread. I think we are going to have dualing flashbacks again this season and Black just dropped hint-bombs but not the whole story. ETA: And EW JUST came out with a Carver interview that confirms my theory (IMO): http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/07/supernatural-season-10-premiere-post-mortem-jeremy-carver/

I think there was a different incident. Sam was working alone at that moment. Cas wasn't there. From Cas/Sam conversation SOMETHING else happened. And it's kinda a big something I think. Evidence: - Sam is already in a sling when he's torturing. And her taunting about hearing how a Winchester had become"one of them" was about SAM. It was played as a reveal but clearly there were rumors about Sam prior to this event. - Not only is he alone at this moment but this suggests she is not the first demon he's gone Guantanamo on. - Cas said: "Sam, you can't blame what that demon did to your shoulder on -- on me. You were out of...." Sure the next word was "control". Then Sam says "I'm not blaming you. What happened ...happened." - After this suggestive dialog, Sam ... who CALLED Cas excited about a lead ... tries to withdraw with 'nevermind'. It could be read as Sam is just reacting to sick Cas. But the reaction wasn't after Cas coughed. It was after Cas brought up some off-screen incident. - Now add timeline hints: Dean said he learned something "six weeks ago". From shoulder-sling Sam to calling Cas is 4 weeks. So we've got at least two weeks from Dean's turning to Sam in a sling torturing. PLUS Sam said this was the first hint in weeks. Like demon possession was suddenly SCARCE. Theory: I think Sam did something much worse than the standard torturing. I think the demons are in HIDING from Winchester-the-younger because he was on the warpath looking for Dean. I think he and Cas agreed to go their own separate ways because there was some huge conflict at the off-screen incident where Sam was injured and Cas was clearly present. There's more to what we saw last night than what we saw. I agree. But based on my theory above... Sam got injured in a likely Sam-out-of-control moment with a demon and we'll be seeing this actual moment later. It would likely conflict with the "wrestling" kind of comment so they could go with such a nice delicious inside joke about Osric. So let me feed some people's worst fears (not mind): this is a version of 'something wrong with Sammy'. Sam DID something wrong. We'll see this later. Mark my words.

I think you're right about the end. And I think Dean WANTS to be bad... and is falling short. Sam's right -- he could have killed that bouncer and didn't. I think he's pushing Sam away too. Now there is a definite level of something operating because he abandoned Sam to Cole at the end of Black. So the signals are mixed. But I think that may be part of the issue. I think Dean is not just seeing live through the bottom of a bottle but he's also seriously having an existential crisis. Also, I rechecked the Closed Captioning. Crowley: "The Mark needs to be sated, otherwise... Dean: "otherwise I turn into a demon. Yeah yeah. I sorta got that six weeks ago" And I'm thinking...well that's odd. You ARE a demon. So, does Dean become a pure demon? One without control or something? "Midwifing you back to life" COULD be as simple as the last scene in Season 9. But I watched the...intimacy... of that conversation where Crowley says all this. I think we've got more going on here than Black showed us. Now add in the flashback and Dean beating someone against a car in his current state. Seems innocuous enough given his current state. But what if part of the "midwifing" has been Crowley helping Dean to literally control his inner demon. To keep him clear-headed enough that he doesn't become completely savage? Just spitballin' here.

Well I liked it. I do agree that the angel story line didn't spark but Crowley and Dean were GOLD. As was Crowley taunting Sam. Damn, I think Mark Sheppard may have made a cross-roads deal 'cause he clearly got the best lines of the night. First impressions: Dean - As expected, it's all in his eyes. Dude is NOT good. I'm a little surprised he could actually get drunk. He must have drunk a ton. That conversation with Ann Marie was not just cold but pretty layered. I'll rewatch that one a few times. Also, the look in Dean's eyes as Crowley was making his pitch was interesting. Sam - Oh honey. I'm going to chalk up your capture to a combination of distress over Dean and your bad shoulder. Clear headed, uninjured Sam would have wiped the floor with Cole. And Crowley has his number -- Sam never likes to admit it but he's got a jealous streak. He must be so confused at this point. Castiel - Dude. Dump Hannah. She's still drinking the Kool-Aid. Also, your place is next to Sam. Go to the bunker and camp out til they show back up. Crowley - Supernatural would like it's show back, you seemed to have stolen it. Seriously. I completely agree - he's in LOVE with his bromance with Dean. He's living in a pit and using his skills of manipulation to keep Dean in shape. I kinda love him. I know it's wrong. Ann Marie - I liked her. And she IS just the kind of damaged person Dean would go for. Cole - Not feeling any love here. And he left his family to pursue revenge. Shades of John Winchester -- and he was better looking. Gas Station Dude - Wins at life. I love how from time to time they let these little parts be so intriguing. Nicely done Bob Singer. I'm going to watch again. I have to agree that some parts dragged but others were INTENSE IMO. Dean is f*cked up and I think Jensen did a good job of showing it. He's a train-wreck. I understand the desire for him to be more of a BadAss but I think Jensen made the right acting choice. Demon!Dean is not a good thing. Dean himself was already a BadAss. Having a twisted soul is not supposed to be pretty.

++ Swan Song -- The Curious Case of Dean Winchester -- I Believe The Children Are Our Future 35 - The End 35 - Dark Side of the Moon 33 - Changing Channels 31 - Point of No Return 29 - Good God, Y'All 27 - The Song Remains the Same 23 - The Real Ghostbusters 23 - Hammer of the Gods 19 - Sam, Interrupted 19 - Abandon All Hope 17 - My Bloody Valentine 17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid 15 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester 13 - Two Minutes to Midnight 07 - Swan Song 05 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael Fallen Idols Swap Meat The Devil You Know Sympathy for the Devil Free to Be You and Me 99 Problems

Carver interview. If you don't like him, IMO this will not improve your perspective on him. http://tvline.com/2014/10/06/supernatural-season-10-spoilers-demon-dean-castiel-big-bad/ I, OTOH, eat this up with a spoon. I like the personal journey. I'm really glad he was asked about the Dean/Cas bond. Also, it seems to me Crowley will be forced to do good things, much to his dismay.

++Swan Song -- I Believe the Children Are Our Future -- The Curious Case of Dean Winchester ... with apologies....I've given it a pass for a few days because I know there is love out there...but Chad Everett just did not feel like Dean to me. 35 - The End 35 - Dark Side of the Moon 33 - Point of No Return 31 - Changing Channels 29 - Good God, Y'All 27 - The Song Remains the Same 23 - The Real Ghostbusters 19 - Sam, Interrupted 19 - Abandon All Hope 19 - Hammer of the Gods 17 - Two Minutes to Midnight 17 - My Bloody Valentine 17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid 15 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester 07 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future 07 - Swan Song Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael Fallen Idols Swap Meat The Devil You Know Sympathy for the Devil Free to Be You and Me 99 Problems

I agree, the show reached rock bottom with "Mans Best Friend With Benefits". We deserve an apology for that one. Wendigo, OTOH, gave us "Saving People, Hunting Things, The Family Business" mission statement. So that makes it a memorable episode. Plus important live saving tip: peanut M&M's. I loved that Chuck narrated. My only complaint was the commercial time -- yikes...these guys were at 3 minutes every break. But seeing Jared & Jensen together talking so comfortably about the show they MADE... fantastic. First time I heard Bob Singer acknowledge he didn't really want Bobby Singer to be named after him. I'm ridiculously excited for tomorrow.

Left coasting... Well it's time for Free To Be You and Me to go the way of all things. I personally found it a worthy effort. The montage (as mentioned a few pages ago) is pretty great. Misha Collins as the terrified Angel in a Den of Iniquity was hilarious. His whole 'terror face' was endearing. Dean has some AWESOME one-liners in this episode (Bert and Ernie are gay, if you want something you lie...because that's how you become President...etc..). But for me the highlight was Sam seeing Jess again. I never mourned Jess in the first episode because she had such a quick fridging and then the series starts. But in this episode, for me, it was how Jared SOLD the relationship. Everything about his demeanor with her just HURTS. I never felt how much he loved her until this episode. So... it has to go...because..it has to go. But it's a memorable episode for me. ++ Abandon All Hope -- Free to Be You and Me ++ Swan Song 35 - The End 33 - Dark Side of the Moon 33 - Point of No Return 31 - Changing Channels 29 - Good God, Y'All 25 - The Song Remains the Same 21 - The Real Ghostbusters 19 - Two Minutes to Midnight 19 - Sam, Interrupted 19 - Abandon All Hope 17 - Hammer of the Gods 17 - My Bloody Valentine 17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid 15 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester 11 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future 07 - Swan Song 05 - 99 Problems Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael Fallen Idols Swap Meat The Devil You Know Sympathy for the Devil Free to Be You and Me

New News: EP 3 Soul Survivor pictures up at K-site. WARNING FOR CATROX: Jensen arms...open at own risk http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-10-3-spoilers-soul-survivor-jensen-ackles-directs/41462 Look at #9. The bottle opening looks too big, but it kinda reminds me of that container used to hold grace. I think it's too early to wrap up that storyline but ... got me thinking.

On the East Coast for a night! Point of No Return ++ Two Minutes to Midnight ++ Swan Song ++ 33 - Dark Side of the Moon 31 - The End 31 - Point of No Return 29 - Changing Channels 25 - Good God, Y'All 23 - The Song Remains the Same 21 - The Real Ghostbusters 21 - Two Minutes to Midnight 19 - Sam, Interrupted 17 - My Bloody Valentine 17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid 17 - Abandon All Hope 17 - Hammer of the Gods 15 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester 11 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future 09 - 99 Problems 09 - Swan Song 05 - Free to Be You and Me 01 - Sympathy for the Devil Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael Fallen Idols Swap Meat The Devil You Know

I agree with Aeryn, Dean is Id - driven. He's always been a bit of a hedonist. Now he's a hedonist without any care in the world. "Booze and Babes" per Jensen. So.. what he actually cares about is having pleasure. Having a good time. That's why the Imaginary Lover song is actually (I think) a good indicator of WHY Dean ends up getting a direction besides "PARTY!". I bet he's not really satisfied with that life. It's empty and he will feel it deep down. Not because he feels guilty but because no matter how much you enjoy something (chocolate or booze & babes for example), it ultimately doesn't satisfy. What he wants? Well hopefully it's more than bloodlust. Hopefully he finds actual joy in something. Once he does, I bet he latches on and won't let go. Crowley has completely misunderstood Dean if he thinks he would be remotely interested in running Hell. Speaking of Crowley...have we seen him actually torture ANYONE since he got addicted? We saw him kill Lola but that was just a kill, no pleasure in torturing her. And SHE was the one bringing in the bodies for the pantry. When he went out on his own, he brought home blood bank blood. In short -- he may not have the taste for torture and killing he used to. He can talk a good game but he may not be able to be an enforcer in Hell like he used to. So he NEEDS Dean to be his muscle. Without a partner to do the dirty work he can't, Crowley is going to lose control. Demons respond to violence and threats as well as 'a baby in every crockpot' campaign. I think he's trying to woo Dean and Dean is just un-woo-able regarding responsibility. Why else would the King of Hell be sharing a room in a dumpy motel with Dean? Obviously for the Sam/Dean parallel but really... he's desperate. Soulless Sam would smell the sweat if he was in the room. Regarding Sam and Dean being the Big Bads. We've got Cole, the Sheriff's, the 200th which will relook at their lives, Claire, Charlie.... now add in some potentials like Kevin and Abaddon. By having so much revisiting of their past (good AND bad) maybe they'll find some peace. For a while it was "we stopped the Apocalypse". But it's the individuals who really stick with them. If they can come to terms with all the people they've gotten killed in balance with all the good they've done...maybe they can just let go some of the manpain and enjoy their lives.

He's lucky the sex is good.https://twitter.com/kimrhodes4real/status/518199095924514816 Looks like fun!

The Real Ghostbusters -- Point of No Return ++ I Believe the Children are our Future -- 33 - Dark Side of the Moon 31 - The End 29 - Point of No Return 27 - Changing Channels 27 - Good God, Y'All 23 - The Song Remains the Same 21 - Two Minutes to Midnight 19 - The Real Ghostbusters 19 - Sam, Interrupted 17 - Hammer of the Gods 17 - My Bloody Valentine 17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid 17 - Abandon All Hope 13 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester 11 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future 09 - 99 Problems 09 - Swan Song 07 - Free to Be You and Me 05 - Sympathy for the Devil Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael Fallen Idols Swap Meat The Devil You Know

Because he's not leaving town immediately so he's setting himself up for seconds? He's not an idiot, nor is she. There's a least some level of niceties to be observed unless he's planning on never seeing her again after that moment. I got the impression Dean and Crowley were in town for a couple of days at least. Why piss her off if the sex was good? So if this was him trying to be nice, it wasn't a good job. Sort of how Soulless Sam was always off when he was faking it in early S6. I'd be surprised if Ann Marie shows up again after this episode. Jensen didn't even know the character name at the TCAs. and they were about to film the ep.

The retrospective is coming Monday. I wonder if we'll get a 'best of' list?

Someone said the smile isn't reaching his eyes. I hope in context we see 'don't give a shit' mania on the outside but something darker in his face.

I think she was clear before hand but I also think hshe was correct in saying there was a hundred better ways to say it. I compare that to Dean's goodbye to Jamie in Monster Movie. He was fun and playful but goodbye. With the chastity counselor he wasn't playful but he didn't feel like he had to say something. Demon!Dean was pretty full of himself, presuming he had to say something simply because she concurred the sex was great. Dean IS confident in his abilities but I don't think he feels the need to tell someone to not 'get their hopes up'. Yes he's handsome but clearly this is not his first rodeo. What makes him think SHE wants more? I just found it rude. Anyway, I'm not expecting to convince you and happy to agree to disagree. I think it was a dick move and I think we were supposed to see it that way based on her comeback. found it rude.

I REALLY don't want a time reset. So I've been missing a few days. Thoughts on the pantlessness of both Cas and Dean in the premier? Gratuitous innuendo for the fans or some parallel meaning -- like "out of control" or something? IDK. Odd imagery choice but it seems intentional to me.

++ Point of No Return -- The Curious Case of Dean Winchester ++ Two Minutes to Midnight 31 - The End 31 - Dark Side of the Moon 27 - Point of No Return 23 - Good God, Y'All 23 - The Song Remains the Same 23 - Changing Channels 21 - The Real Ghostbusters 21 - Two Minutes to Midnight 19 - Sam, Interrupted 17 - Hammer of the Gods 17 - My Bloody Valentine 17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid 17 - Abandon All Hope 13 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester 13 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future 09 - 99 Problems 09 - Free to Be You and Me 09 - Swan Song 07 - Sympathy for the Devil Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael Fallen Idols Swap Meat The Devil You Know

Real life eating my lunch. 1) Video- nice eye candy, I don't think Dean normally makes the girl feel shitty. It might be his attitude but he says it much nicer. I find myself somewhat surprised Crowley averts his eyes. I would have expected a "tease" comment. 2) I think Ann Marie is a one-ep character. 3) Why is Claire in a foster system? I thought her Mom lived???

Outstanding fan made promo. Creepy fish eye lens thing with Sam. I think that's supposed to be a fake out but boot sure anyone thinks it's anyone but Sam.

Time zone change.. Again Sam, Interrupted ++ Two Minutes to Midnight++ The Devil You Know -- 25 - Dark Side of the Moon 25 - Point of No Return 25 - The End 21 - The Song Remains the Same 21 - Good God, Y'All 21 - Two Minutes to Midnight 19 - Changing Channels 19 -The Real Ghostbusters 17 - Sam, Interrupted 17 - My Bloody Valentine 17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid 17 - Hammer of the Gods 17 - Abandon All Hope 15 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future 15 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester 13 - Swan Song 13 - Sympathy for the Devil 13 - 99 Problems 13 - Free to Be You and Me 09- The Devil You Know Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael Fallen Idols Swap Meat

Fallen Idols... well that happened. Nice Title for the Dead Pool Demented Daisy! Point of No Return ++ Swan Song ++ The Curious Case of Dean Winchester -- 23 - Dark Side of the Moon 23 - Point of No Return 21 - The End 19 - Changing Channels 19 - The Song Remains the Same 17- Two Minutes to Midnight 17 - Hammer of the Gods 17 - Good God, Y'All 17 -The Real Ghostbusters 17 - My Bloody Valentine 17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid 15 - Sympathy for the Devil 15 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future 15 - Abandon All Hope... 15 - Sam, Interrupted 15 - Swan Song 13 - The Devil You Know 13 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester 13 - 99 Problems 13 - Free to Be You and 07 - Swap Meat Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael Fallen Idols