Orion

Oliver had that one scene with Diggle in S1? Where he said his father explained the list to him and Diggle asked how that was possible if his father died on the Gambit. Which just reminded me on Moira's desk there was a model of the Gambit behind Oliver. Who keeps a model of the ship that your husband and son died on?

I promised myself I wouldn't bring up the whole lying to Quentin about his child again, I was wrong, I can not believe they had her giving Quentin attitude at his daughters grave after he has only had a week to process it. That one scene managed to spike my rage meter off the charts. Pouring the alcohol on Sara's grave was just the final touch. I hate this character so much. For someone going through an emotional crucible over her sister and boyfriends death that is still apparently effecting her in the present Laurel seemed to be doing just fine. *Deep breaths* The rest of the episode was alright although extremely idiotic at points with Oliver wandering everywhere and never getting caught. Honestly the guy was in more places when he was hiding out dead that we see him in current time when he's alive. Love seeing Queen Manor again. I miss Moira and "normal" people so damn much on this show. In all I'll take this Meh episode over the train wreck the last handful have been.

This was a great episode. Chief Dooley was sad. I was surprised that I felt that much for him. I wanted to stand up and cheer the writers for that scene though. That was the payoff of developing all the characters on the show. I cared when they were in danger/dying. TV deaths should matter beyond how they advance the plot. I could watch nothing more than Peggy and Jarvis run dialogue in an interrogation room all night. The whole conversation with the table was hysterical. One of the best things this series does is add humerous fun moments to the action and suspense. Not everything has to be dark and depressing. The theater scene was creepy; I can't wait to see what the pay off is with that. I continue to be so impressed with the set design. The theater was gorgeous. I don't know if it is because there are only 8 episodes of this show (which is actually working against it for me because I keep watching the clock and thinking slow down please there are only x amount of these left) but the story is so tightly woven. Everyone has a purpose and a skill to add. They didn't include any unnecessary characters. No one feels like they are standing around waiting for something to do. I appreciate that so much. The visual effect of Dooley jumping from the window was very well done. Every single actor in this show is great. But HA and Jarvis are stand outs for me. ABC can have my money for DVD's, comic sales whatever it wants I just need more episodes.

It's not the storyline I'm bitter over missing out on (although I do think it looks interesting) it's that we are getting to see Oliver react to a situation with Felicity. So far in S3 Felicity got almost killed in an explosion and Oliver put her down on a table and immediately started trying to find the bad guy while NO one looked after her because head injury and we saw Felicity be kidnapped by Cooper and the most we got was Oliver sighing and saying, "something's wrong". I can fan wank a lot in those scenes and try to read more into it but the writers aren't including dialogue and time for those moments; but they did in these comics. This is now the 3rd issue where Oliver has been shown reacting to her disappearance. The reaction to the action is where the writers can include character develop and it is what I am dying to have in the show and what I am not getting. Not just for Olicity but for anyone. So I'm keeping my $2 a month. The panel where Roy has pin dots for pupils is a pretty funny one too. I really want the Flash's artist.

I'm laughing hard at that scene in the #13 2.5 because doesn't that just throw the question of whether Oliver was lying to Felicity in the mansion scene back onto the table? MG unable to follow past plots and be consistent since 2012

Curious do you have a link to something that says that hard copies sales are more important than digital sales? I would assume it would go the other way, digital sales are pure profit for DC, they don't have to give comic shops a cut or pay for printers, paper, ink, shipping, etc. I would be really interested in reading that information. Thank you Soulfire for posting. That looks like a really good story which is why I'm refusing to buy any further issues of the 2.5 comics. It is clear from those that MG does know how to write a decent story with elements that appeal to the audience. It also shows he knows what people are invested in since the comics have been full of D/O/F and Olicity (Roy's been in a coma for the most part and LL has been in 2 issues I believe.) It just makes me more bitter seeing what this season on the show has become.

Plenty of men are the beta in a relationship with a female. I imagine if the roles were reversed no one would have a problem imagining a relationship between Peggy the housekeeper and Jarvis the super secret agent. I would actually find it refreshing for TV to show a relationship like that. Normally if you get the alpha female with a beta male it is where the female manipulates the male into believing he's in charge while she works behind his back to fix his dumb actions. Jarvis and Peggy each have their strengths and weaknesses. They compliment each other nicely if not in the most predictable way. That being said, I have no opinion on who Mr. Carter should be other than not Thompson. Rewatched the Avengers this weekend and the actor that plays Sousa plays a young cop in the battle of New York scene with Captain America. Anyone cheering for Sousa as the husband could make a nice AU out of Peggy and Daniel's grandson growing up to work for the NYPD and helping during the battle.

BaTB was only renewed for 13 episodes for S3 so that's kind shocking that it got a season 4. Happy for the fans they are very passionate about it. I was completely in love with that show and how they portrayed Catherine until S2E2 when they had Vincent pick her up by the neck and throw her 30 feet across a roof top for questioning him (he was still being mind controlled at the time) and while I was horrified that had the male romantic lead commit domestic violence against the female protagonist, I tuned in for the next episode to see if what he did would be addressed. It was, we saw Catherine putting makeup on the bruise he left on her throat and that was the last that story was brought up. And that was the last episode of that I watched.

I honestly don't understand his philosophy of pissing off viewers. If I'm angry I'll stop watching. I already feel like I've been beaten down and treated like an idiot by the Arrow writers, to think this is all part of their grand plan to abuse me for watching and being loyal because some EP gets off on it makes me even more disillusioned. So basically, the story hasn't been bad because the writers lost their way or made plotting errors it was so they could torture me? I don't watch TV to be pissed off. Do people do that? I want to be entertained with a good story; happy, sad, exciting, or informative I don't care, I just want something that makes sense and doesn't leave me feeling rage, confusion and like I wasted an hour of my time.

That's another huge problem with the writing in this arc. He told Diggle, "I came close," in regards to dying in the very same episode that he magically swung down Main Street over top of a crowd of people covered by the news. So I can't really blame TA for being confused, hell I'm confused and I saw him get stabbed.

I can see that. For me the lampshading made it worse. Don't acknowledge my legitimate criticisms of your show and then act like that makes them all better. If you want to include the audiences response to some very questionable writing then give me a reason to not hate those writing choices. Have all the Sara dialogue lead to Laurel addressing those points in a believable way. In other words, don't point out the dirt on the floor unless you intend to get down there and clean it up. With the way the writers of this episode left those scenes it did feel very much like they were mocking me, the viewer, "Ha ha we see all the problems you have with this arc and we are not changing anything!"

i'm going to keep this short to stop myself from raging because I made the very big mistake of watching this episode. Arrow you have a problem when every hallucination made more sense than any of the characters you have on screen and when I was cheering harder for them than the characters I have loved for two years. I have no idea what the hell this episode was... other than trash.

Here is my one saving grace on the forever ship tease or the L/O reversal. It's not up to Guggenheim. The network, DC, Greg Berlanti (known for the Dawson's Creek endgame swerve), and kreisenberg would all have a say in it. So even though I think that Guggenheim is a bad writer and even worse plotter smarter people are involved in determining the big picture, what will be left of the ship after Guggenheim gets done with it is another question. We'll gave to rock, paper, scissors to figure out who is going to the victim of the week that gets to watch the episode and report back to the rest of us so we can appropriately mock it.

We'll that interview confirmed two things for me, 1 she tweeted that hashtag last week so she could bring it up in this interview and for PR reasons appear playful and 2 the producers are giving KC her own version of the scripts that include a love triangle involving Laurel. Also, KC interviews are giving me an eye twitch. All good things to know.

I'm stuck in that Groundhog's Day movie. Didn't we have to go through this exact same storyline last year but with Laurel being the one that wrongly blamed the Arrow for the death of a loved one that Oliver couldn't save. That was such a great storyline the writers decide we needed another round of this. This is the huge payoff we get for having to watch Laurel lie to Quentin for 7 months about his daughters death. I feel rewarded.

It's in the same strip mall as Pantsuit Emporium, around the corner from the Secret Lair Cleaners, if you see the Overnight Cure Drug Treatment Center you've gone to far.

One problem with that title experiment page, postmortem is one word not two and removing the space between the words means it doesn't fit. Good thought by that person though.

How about Partnership for the title? Going by their fondness for using females in danger or injured or dead to advance the plot, Felicity is hurt and it motivates Palmer and Oliver to team up together to take down the person responsible.

From what I've seen a lot of Iris/Barry shippers are LL/Oliver shippers also. So there might be some ulterior motives involved in the upset over Felicity. He was a reoccurring character on Power but got up to regular after he signed on for Ted Grant.

The one thing I'm absolutely positive of with this show is that the season will end with Felicity not being with Ray. If for no other reason than the 3.5 comics that will probably come out next year. With the amount of time MG spends waving the Olicity and Team Arrow flags andd how LL is hardly ever in those comics, MG must have data that those factors increase purchases. Leads me to believe we'll end the season with, "Yes lets be together!" followed by Baby Mama interruption or Felicity and Oliver back to yearning looks and the slow build starts over. Although a very perverse part of me would love to watch MG try to rally sales by telling people to pick up an issue to watch Felicity and Ray date and than look at sales for those issues. I'm almost positive that the game changer will be meta humans or powers on Arrow and I'm really going to be annoyed.

Just as a minor point about the numbers provided above, they do not include digital sales figures and DC does not release those numbers. So I'm not sure how much stock I can put into drawing conclusions from only half of the data. I would assume that digital downloads would probably skew towards female and new comic readers, people more likely to buy for a TV tie in, that wouldn't feel comfortable going into a comic shop and buying hard copies. Lemire's run had several "regular people" involved in his supporting cast including Diggle and his book was concerned one of the more successful (well written) runs of Green Arrow so IMO it didn't have as much to do with Felicity and Diggle not fitting or being enough of a draw as it is that AK isn't a great writer and the new author wanting to go in a different direction. If I read the new guys bio correctly he isn't a comic book author; he's a detective fiction author and that's the direction he is taking Green Arrow in.

To be honest, as a first time comics buyer, I can't say I was impressed with the storytelling. It seemed that the writers were more interested in throwing guest appearances into the comics than actually writing a Green Arrow story; gee that sounds familiar. One issue was taken up with the Green Lantern and that story went nowhere. Batman and Lex Luther showed up in one and again that story went no where. I'm not even sure who the lion woman was suppose to be in the last issue. Felicity and DIggle of the comics seem to have the same issue that Felicity and Diggle of the show has - the writers have absolutely no idea what to do with them. I was never impressed with the artwork - the goggles were bad. Despite those problems though I would have continued to buy them and support the Team Arrow dynamic that I love in any form but with them being removed it's an extra latte a week with the money this saves me.

Than remove Rebecca and Anna. Moira, Sara, Shado, and Isabel all died not fighting back. And like someone else pointed out everyone who has come back from the dead has been male. Anyway you slice it they have treated the female characters deaths differently than the males. Women were passive in their deaths except for Moira. The men heroic and fighting. I agree with you that I'm exhausted of Felicity crying, EBR has had some of her best material and really grown as an actress this season because of it but I'm at the enough is enough point (I don't blame EBR or Felicity but the writers) But here's where I think the problem is. After "Sara" the AV Club said this: The writers need a character that the audience can relate to their emotions. They need a character that be open enough to show the viewers how they want us to feel. It can't be Diggle, Oliver or Roy because its already been established in show that none of them are good talking about their feelings. It can't be Laurel because the audience in general does not relate to her and doesn't buy into a lot of her relationships with other characters. That leaves them with Felicity. In an ideal world these emotional arcs would be spread out among all the characters but they can't do that on Arrow because they have done such a poor job of flushing out character develop. Felicity is left to be the emotional core of the show. Oliver disassociates, Diggle is stoic, Roy thinks about his red hoodie?, Ray is to new, Laurel is too inconsistent, and the writers have removed everyone else that can act as the normal people in their emotions. Therefore the burden falls to Felicity. She's the one that cries for a dead friend or a failed relationship, she's the one that is scared when she and her mother are kidnapped, she's the character that rages when she's angry and she's the one that openly mourns Oliver. So as much as I want light Felicty back I don't think it's because the writers want to dim her light. I think this is happening for the same reason 90% of the stories this year are happening - plot contrivance. It's easier to assign the emotional heavy lifting to Felicity than it is to write scenes that lead the audience to feel things through what is shown instead of through sympathy for Felicity.

Felicity isn't breaking Oliver's heart. Oliver is breaking his own heart and Felicity's. She's not the one that is unwilling to try to be together despite their night job. She's not the one that is dangling maybes and saying she loves him while going off on suicide missions or saying, "nope, sorry not right now, maybe never." All season long he's been slowly giving her hope with one hand and that snatching it away with the other. Death by a thousands cuts. That doesn't even include what happened last year during the mansion scene where he presented her dreams to her on a silver platter with his right hand while sticking a syringe for a deception with his left. Yes he meant it, yes Oliver loves Felicity but everything so far has been his choice. His choice to date, his to stop, his choice to go to Ra's without trying to find another way, his choice to team up with Malcom - no discussion on other ways to handle it (like a team would do). And Felicity finally had enough - something she had every right to tell him. Team up with a monster and loose your humanity, turn his back on everything that makes him Oliver and embrace the end result justifies the means. Ra's and Malcom turned their back on who the were. They became their missions. They are what Oliver will become if he turns his back and becomes the Arrow. The mission is everything and damn the consequences to get the victory. If being a woman he loves means he would team up with a monster that killed over 500 people to protect her - than she doesn't want that. Felicity isn't just mad that Oliver won't love her the way she wants, she's pissed that he wants to go against ever thing he stood for; the ideals she that she fought Roy, Laurel, Malcom,. and Diggle to uphold. As far as I'm concerned Oliver's lucky that she didn't smack his face and quit Team Arrow. Either Felicity is going to be a sub character that stays in lane - is bright and sunny and supports Oliver all the time and become a Mary Sue or she's going to be a real person, one that gets angry, rages, cries, laughs, makes good choice and makes bad; because that what a real person does. As far as the male/female deaths. Robert Queen was in one episode alive, we never saw Michael Stanton (Helena's fiancé} so I don't count them. Yao Fei, Tommy, and Blood all got to die a heroes death; Yao Fei died after giving into Fryers to save Shado, Tommy died saving Laurel, Blood died because he stole the cure for Oliver, I'll throw Robert in because he killed himself for Oliver. They all died being heroic. The women; Shado died on her knees a victim - not fighting. Sara was shot on a rooftop and fell on a dumpster not being a hero Rebecca Merlyn and Ray's Anna victims of street crime. Moira was a hero for sacrificing herself for her children and Isabel died fighting against Nyssa. All the men who died - died being heroic. All the women that died except for 2 died being victims. That's the difference for me.

I really did not see that as mean, at all. I could point to the pilot as having dialogue that was mean to the returning dead person. felicity has every right to say enough. IMO she wasn't harsh enough. This guy has yanked her up and down emotional mountains all season, he wants to date her, oops never mind,this is his mission and she/digg have no say, don't ask me to say I don't love you, this life only ends one way, choosing death over her,you know how I feel about her, do whatever you want- in regards to going out with Palmer, I have to be alone speech to Cupid, the topper I love you as he goes off to sacrifice himself to an assassin and finishing off coming back with the most idiotic plan ever - team up MM. Felicity is not just hurt she's crushed to see the man she at least cares for deeply turn his back on all principals Ta has fought to establish over two years and destroy the moral code that she clung to desperately in his honor despite opposition from everyone in the Arrowcave. It's the death of the quiet dreams she was keeping to herself and profound disappointment in his choice. Not to even mention how painful having that be his first words to her.... Not harsh enough. I see Oliver's pov but it's so wrapped up in the writers beyond dumb story I'm giving Oliver a pass this week.