Orion

Looks like the limo gets shot up before it crashes. Saw this on twitter.

Here's my take on what Felicity said in the first argument. She figures out something is bothering Oliver. Ask him about it. He says he needs time and she accepts that. She finds out that Barry is hiding something. Wants to see it. Barry says, "Oliver specifically asked me..." Which if I was Felicity I would have assumed that that sentence ended with "not to show you." So now she knows that Oliver has suspected/known since that morning (at least). Long enough for him to get a DNA sample from the kid. He went to Barry to run that DNA test. A test she has run a bunch of times in the past. So he chose to go around her and take it to Barry. The next time we see Oliver it is night time. Time has passed since Oliver found out and since Felicity found out. Felicity, "Everyone is waiting for you." Again implying time has passed since anyone has seen Oliver. Oliver, "Sorry just something I had to take care of." Lie by omission. Felicity, "So I guess you are off the secret keeping wagon." Oliver, "That's not it. I think Damien Darhk has someone operating in Central City so I sent Barry to run down a lead." LIE, not just a lie, a story he invented to cover the truth. Felicity, "This kind of lead. (shows him the DNA report) He didn't know what he was giving me. But I've run enough test on your blood to recognize your DNA sequence anywhere. You had him run a paternity test didn't you." Oliver, "Look. Felicity." Felicity, "Stop. I can not hear another lie." Oliver, "It's more complicated than that." Felicity, "God, Oliver you are the only person this planet that considers the truth complicated. Just to be clear, I don't care that you have a child. I can not believe you have a child that you didn't tell me about. I care that you lied to me just now." Oliver, "Do you know that my whole world is emploding. I think I'm entitled to process that for a minute on my own." Felicity, " You some how managed to go to CCPD and track down Barry. You didn't keep it to yourself. You kept it from me. When were you planning on telling me." Oliver, "I don't know." Felicity, "If you loved me, if you trusted me telling me this wouldn't be such a burden, it would be a relief. But you don't trust me, you never will. How can I be with someone who doesn't trust me?" (Sorry that I put all the quotes in one paragraph I didn't want to eat up the whole page) Oliver doesn't answer her. Felicity walks off. That's the whole scene. I'm with Felicity and I don't see where she said anything mean. Oliver hid the plan to catch Slade from her, she rolled with it. Oliver didn't share the plan to get Ra's with her, Felicity forgave him. I can't really fault her for being done with his lies. When he had chances in this episode to tell her to prove he has changed he failed.

Well, that happened. Bored, to sad, back to bored, ending with sad and enraged. Feels like Season 3. *sigh* Was WM on vacation when this episode was written?

First and foremost, bless the few of you that are braving the Flash Forum. It was a good episode. It definitely had it's moments and I enjoyed all of team Arrow + plus team Flash scenes. Any episode that doesn't include Arrow's problem character is a good episode. I think it bogged down big time about half way through with the Hawk stuff. The actor and actress just weren't very good. I was desperate for some sane person to show up on top of that roof and yell about how stupid that whole scene was. When guys we just meet are advocating that we jump off of a building so we can sprout wings it's time to call an adult into the room. I don't watch the Flash anymore so I didn't care about Patty and Joe or Caitlyn and Fake? Wells. There were long stretches where I was just zoning out. Kinda disappointed I'm never going to get to see pot-belly, balding, but very happy Oliver from Earth 2.

*SIgh* The entire clip - transcriped. Question: "Who do you think Felicity would be rooting for Barry to be with?" Answer: I don't know. I guess Caitlyn has a little bit of baggage right now. But she's good friends with Caitlyn so I think that would be good. She doesn't know Iris like very well - like they've been on a couple... But Caitlyn and her are phone friends so I would think that. I um, I think she would probably like Patty if she were to cross paths with her. I hear she is an amaz.. um.. Felicity hears that she's great. So I feel like that is something that would make her want to be friends with Patty in that context." She's not "GUNG HO" about any answer. If you can read approving one ship over another in that answer more power to you but in TEXT she does not pick. She bent over backwards NOT picking.

CW marketing interns, "We're honestly shocked people keep expecting better from us."

Charlotte Ross just followed him on Twitter and she is faving all comments about him being Felicity's dad. Also saw this on Twitter, they actually do look similar.

Chappaquiddick refers to a accident where a car driven by Ted Kennedy went off the road into tidal pond. Kennedy was able to get free from the car but his passenger, Mary Jo Kopechne, was not. Instead of calling for help or trying to save her, he went home and failed to report the accident for 9 hours. There were all kinds of rumors around the event. That the woman was actually suffocated before the accident. That Kennedy was drunk and that's why he crashed the car and failed to report it until he had sobered up. Whatever the truth is, at the time of the accident it was universally believed that he would go on to follow in John's footsteps and become president. The accident ended up destroying his political career beyond being a Senator. I'm guessing, but if people think that the Chappaquiddick reference is foreshadowing they might believe that the limo goes into the bay. Oliver is able to save himself but not Felicity. Perhaps even that rumors start after the accident that hurt his mayoral run.

Jessica Jones is definitely not an easy show to watch. I'm going to put these under spoiler tags just to be safe but it is a list of things that often get called Trigger warnings Not all of the things under the spoiler tags are shown but everything is at least talked about a few times. I would use caution before recommending the series to someone but if you do decide to watch it overall the show was very good.

I don't understand the "bye Felicia" saying either. I thought that phrase was an insult. Urban Dictionary defines it as: That sounds like something I would love to say to the character. But I'm not sure why someone who is a fan of the actress would give it to her. So I must be missing something.

While I'm sure Oliver likes his campaign consultant, I'm not sure he would cry over his grave and pledge to break his no kill rule over his death. :)

I've been waiting since the Season 2 finale for the Oliver's line to Slade about Shado, "I remember her as being beautiful and kind. She would be horrified to know what you have done in her name," to come back around and apply to Oliver and Felicity. Part of the heroes journey is to stumble at becoming a hero. This was never not going to happen, eventually. That being said if this turns into Ray 2.0 where Felicity's injury is to benefit everyone but her (I'm watching you Curtis. Don't think you are going to suddenly become TA's lovable tech nerd on the back of Felicity being injured and launch yourself as a superhero from that.) I'm going to be pissed.

That's typically not the type of wheelchair hospitals have for wheeling around patients. That's the kind that you go home in. Cheap vinyl seat plus metal vs. padding and lacking high arm rests. I know that Arrow has had the cheap-o ones in the background of scenes.

There was some really bizarre camera angles that kept pulling me out of the story in that episode. In the scene where Diggle unmasks Andy the camera was almost parallel to Andy laying on the floor and you could look right up the actor's nostrils. Instead of being able to focus on Diggles reaction (which his silly mask mostly hid) I was focusing on that. The Laurel and DIggle scene at the bar David Ramsey was emoting beautifully and my heart was breaking for Diggle and than the camera started cutting back and forth from a close up of him, to a longer shot of Laurel and Diggle, to a mid range shot, back to a close up on Diggle. I couldn't enjoy the emotion because I kept wondering if something was happening in the background that I was suppose to be paying attention to. That scene should have been shot like Oliver and Felicity's dinner date. Let the actor do the work and leave the camera alone. DR is good enough to not need all those cuts. There were also really long transition shots where the camera would slowly pan to a light and then dissolve to another scene. The one where the camera pushed in on Felicity's purple sweater only to pull back on someone on the island wearing the same color (even though almost every single person on that island is wearing camo) was really silly. I know that the show is basically taking the approach that the Felicity and Diggle friendship is believed in enough by the audience that they don't have to show it and they can just reference that these talks are happening off screen but I want the damn scenes. The gala was weirdly short and I want to say useless. Why would they waste all that money and all those extras for those few scenes? Also Oliver had the shortest speech I have ever seen at any political function. The DJ at those types of events normally has more to say than that. Show I remember Season One, I've watched it numerous times, I remember when Diggle said a solider never leaves a brother behind. Even if you want me to believe that Diggle now hates his brother for what he did, I am never going to believe that Diggle would just shrug his shoulders and leave Andy with DD. Sorry, no. They need to do better for both David Ramsey and Diggle.

I follow very few celebs or Hollywood type people on social media just because I would rather not know them or their views outside of their shows. If they become problematic it damages my ability to suspend my disbelief when I'm watching them. (I still can't watch anything with Tom Cruise after his Today show and couch jump performances) so I often don't see this kind of thing unless I'm reading about it on a message board so I don't know how prevalent this type of thing is. But to me this speaks to a larger problem with this show both in the narrative on screen and the behind the scenes. At a certain point there became a concerning, at least for me, narrative that masks and fighting equal being a hero. Everything from who went to the Heroes and Villains con last year, to the Superhero photo shoot, to the finale last year where they had the line, that "the city wasn't lacking masks," and Oliver responded, "heroes" as if one begat the other. And I understand that this is a superhero show and the audience is suppose to take the costume as a hero indicator but I always viewed superheroes as people who were put forward to shine a light on the aspects of all of us that make us heroic. To show the qualities that we should all strive for. Heroes sacrifice and help strangers because that's the right thing to do. They give their lives so others can live. They are the single mom that works 3 jobs so her kids can have what they need or the first responders that run into danger to save others or the people in the military that fight so others can be free. No one can be Superman, Captain America Flash, or the Green Arrow but they all have qualities that normal, everyday people can try to achieve and be heroes. I'm sure it sounds corny but when I watched Wonder Woman or Greatest American hero as a kid those were the messages I took away from the shows. I definitely don't get that same message watching Arrow. I realize that this guy is more than likely a man who is a stunt dude excited for his episode and highlighting some awesome super duper fight scene with the two female fighters on his show and I shouldn't apply all of this to him. And it's not all his fault. The show itself doesn't treat Donna (the single Mom) or Diggle (until this year when he got a mask) and Lyla (the war veterans) or Moira (who gave her life for her children) or Felicity (the average person who goes into to danger to save others) as heroes and I think that's a problem from GB all the way down to the stunt dude. The narrative they all present Is exclusionary instead of inclusive. I really wish they would do better. "Real" girl power wears a lot of different hats and I'd like to see that represent more on this show and behind the scenes. That and CW should start forcing its cast and crews to take PR courses.

Thanks for bringing that quote over Morrigan2575 So we will probably get a scene where every character that is in play for the death is in some sort of life or death situation, cut to a close up on Oliver and a gun shot or explosion being heard over his coms and then cut to black. Dun dun dunnnn. Honestly, I think if they are going to remove a player off the "who is dead" board game by having someone show up at the grave with Oliver it will be Diggle. He's now close to Lance, Felicity, Lyla, Thea, Sara and Laurel. It leaves almost everyone still in play for the audience to worry about with the added advantage of being the most vague. If it's someone like Donna it clears the board of all but two or three players.

I feel like we are missing the most important question that this episode left unanswered, how the hell has Ray Palmer been going to the bathroom for 6 months and did DD have his ghost build a tater tot sized potty? Also, given that Ray has been in a glass box with a camera inside is DD really a much bigger pervert than I previously thought? First episode of Arrow I have watched since 3x17 beyond Youtube-ing a few scenes (to limit my exposure to a certain character) and I was not disappointed. The whole episode just convinced me that I would watch OTA, Diggle/Oliver, Diggle/Felicity, Felicity/Donna, Olicity read a phone book for hours on end and enjoy every minute of it. See what happens when emotional beats depend on relationships I believe in show! When I watched Daredevil over the summer the one thing I wished that the Arrow writers would take away from that show was to occasionally have characters sit around and talk. Last night that happened. Felicity even got someone to talk to so we didn't have to guess her POV and gave her agency in her emotions. Loved the character building that went on. The emotional scenes that were shown with Felicity behaving the way she did held truth for me. As someone who has been married for a loooonnng time that was how real couples fight. It's not pretty, sometimes it is not nice and in a perfect world those arguments wouldn't happen but it was true. I think part of the reason those scenes made people uncomfortable was because it is uncomfortable to watch couples fight. When you know a person better than anyone else you have the ammunition to attack places you know will hurt, Felicity never did that. She got angry at Oliver because he wasn't listening to what she needed. She even told him when they got back to the loft, that the first thing he said to her when she told him Ray was in trouble was that she needed a shower and nap. Oliver was looking out for Felicity but that's not what she needed at that moment. Was he right? Yep. But Felicity wanted his support in finding Ray not his concern for her. It put them at cross purposes for entire episode and, as often happens, brought up other issues that up until that point were just laying beneath the surface, not big enough to have an argument, yet. If you have ever seen a couple have rip roaring fight about leaving a toilet seat open or leaving socks on floor it's because that's the final straw on a bubbling cauldron of something else. It's never actually about the socks and it wasn't about Ray. I enjoyed those scenes a lot, not because it was fun to watch but because it real. Anyway, I just loved the whole episode and please show go back to this so I can enjoy more episodes with the characters I love and like to analyze and read about. Please.

This show has so many big problems and I agree with everyone above that the entire cast is just completely unlikeable in an almost astonishingly complete way. They aren't even fun to hate watch. But beyond that I think the problems started from the beginning with the writers unable to come up with a time frame for when all this is happening. In the first few episodes our family is set up in the position of the canary in the coal mine, they are figuring out there is a problem before most people, thanks to the junkie kid's encounter in the drug house. The writers show us neighbors setting up bouncy houses and planning birthday parties, cops and EMTs leaning over dead bodies and being completely surprised when they re-animate. That's fine, there is definitely a story value in seeing this happen and being the first to know, the first to connect the dots. But if that is story you are going to tell then the family should serve as a warning cry. People who are trying to convince the school officials or neighbors or local law enforcement that something bad is happening. Instead the writers isolated their families. No one tries to find out more or communicate with people who might have key information other than Tobias. They deliberately don't tell people, who they know, that danger is coming. They take time playing board games instead of going online to research news stories, watch TV or even listen to the radio. I keep thinking of the scenes in Harry Potter: Deathly Hallows when the 3 kids are going about their mission while the radio is broadcasting news reports. If for budget reasons or story telling choices the production didn't want to "show" the fall of civilization than having radio reports go from standard bored news reports about who the LA Raiders are drafting to a rise in unexplained deaths to the news that the governor has called the national guard to help the LAPD control riots to eventual dead air would have been the way to up the suspense. Half way through the series the writers apparently changed their mind about our family being the first to know and decided that the military, which operates like a large train in that it takes a while to get an operation like what would be needed to get rolling, and expect us to believe that twenty feet tall fencing and mechanically locking gates in enough quantity to encircle several random neighborhoods (that don't appear to have any strategic value like water/sewage plants, electrical power stations or even large stores) was available to roll out at a moments notice. That military logistics like feeding and providing water for all these people happened in 9 days, that the rules of engagement and cages for keeping questionable survivors were all figured out in that amount of time. Which again, there is story value in having the government come in an try to control certain areas. if that is the story you want to tell than we need to be much further along in this than we started out in. I can believe the military command structure would start to fall apart and soldiers would start to leave their posts due to battle fatigue and the eventual running out of supplies but none of that was shown. As of last episode food delivery was still making it through, the area surrounding the safezone was cleared, command and control at the base was still operating. But apparently, somewhere else, they decided, "screw it, let L.A. fall and also don't drop a bomb from one of our planes on the giant stadium that we know is filled with re-animated corpses because I'm sure they won't get out." In the end, because the writers couldn't decide they half-assed their way into a half of column A and half of column E story that was neither satisfying or exciting. That my overwhelming response to the finale was, "yeah, whatever."

This has always been one of those shows that is very good (acting, writing, story, suspense) but for me it was also missing something that would have made it must see TV. After, this season and this episode specifically I realized that what I was missing was, hope. Part of the problem with any show that is heading toward a certain endpoint is you might not know the mile markers but you know the destination. We know where almost all of these characters are going. Dylan and Emma have always been the two that could live, that could escape from all this - alive. But the plots they were involved in didn't point to a happy ending. Dylan always walked a razors edge of courting death in order to win Norma's love and to try to become a member of a family instead of a planet orbiting the Norma and Norman sun and Emma's life was always at risk because of her CF. As this season has progressed those two have found a bit of sanity and hope with each other and I didn't realize how very much I needed that in order for the show to really grow. When Dylan walked into the basement last night to check on Norman I instantly became nervous and concerned for him (yelling at the TV, "you do not go into basements in horror movies what's wrong with you? Run!") that the show engaged me in a way it hadn't before. The stakes are higher now because I don't know when or if something bad will happen. I needed the Dylemma story in a way I wasn't even aware of. I need the hope of, if not a happy ending, then escape and life. So I'm really happy that show went in this direction. A little light to balance the never ending darkness around Norma and Norman. Bradley's death was beautifully shot with the headlights in the back ground silhouetting her murder. It was much more, I want to say graphic, not seeing everything in detail and letting my mind fill in the blanks. One of things this show really excels at is that none of the characters are comically evil. Everyone, except Emma, is a shade of gray and walking around making mistakes but overall doing them for what they believe to be the right reasons. The scene with Romero and Norma in front of the hotel where Norma is trying to deal with the fact that she can't afford to help Norman had one of my favorite lines from last night, "Maybe fate wins here. We are all doomed in the end." This season has really made a point of showing Norma as someone who loves Norman beyond reason but probably in the only way that she knows how. Caleb said that they only had each other and because of that they made each other their world. For Caleb that meant that he sexualized his feelings for Norma and for Norma she learned that love is insulated all consuming tiny world that must be protected at all cost. The only complaint I have about the finale is that I felt we needed one more scene with Emma. It felt a little unbalanced with her story. Maybe a scene of her in the car with her father on the way to the hospital. Also, the actors that play Norma and Romero are adorable on twitter and tease each other back and forth about Nomero. I just started following them and found them to be very entertaining during the show. Looking forward to next season.

Soooo this was a bad episode to try to come back to the show. Everything was a jumbled mess. Points for trying to address Deadshots PTSD. Points taken away for shoving it into an episode that had no time to deal with it. Carrie Cutter is ... over the top and not in a good way. I think I sprained my eyes rolling them in every scene she had. The wedding was rushed and pointless. And as someone who did not hate the Ray character (until this episode) him being the minster was some of the most idiotic storytelling this show has tried to pull off and that's saying something after the disaster season 3 has been. The stupid flying suit. God how I hate powers on Arrow. The CGI was bad ... that scene was bad. I expect more out of the fights on this show. Arrow stop killing characters I like and move on to the one that continues to make me yell at my TV. Just .... *sigh* I'm at the end of patience with this stupidity. ETA When Felicity went back to Palmer is the first time ever on Arrow that I have muted a Felicity scene.

I, for lack of a better word, researched E online polls and the use of bots last year during the Save our Show competition when rumors were flying around that you could use auto voter bots that would get around the captchas. From what I was able to find out there was a way using the coding of the website to program an auto voter to read the macro code on E online and never actually load the E online page. Just using the websites coding you could vote from your computer avoiding the captchas. This method apparently worked a few years ago and their are several youtube videos that explained how to do it. However, E online corrected the problem that in simple terms allowed back door voting and those methods no longer work. So long answer short, yes you use to be able to bot vote but now you can't. I saw every fandom involved in this round of voting accused of cheating BATB, Glee, Outlander, WestAllen, and Olicity. I think it all comes down to people seeing websites claiming to have a way to bot the vote (from before Eonline fixed it) and groups that are just upset they lost and looking for someone or something to blame.

It's the new big thing in coffee. I've had it in a few independent coffee shops. You don't taste the butter or the coconut oil. It just tastes very creamy, like someone added heavy cream instead of milk to your coffee. I didn't think I would like it either but it is very good. The fat in the butter is suppose to help prevent the after coffee crash you get when the caffeine wears off. I don't know if that is true but since coffee is pretty much a food group to me and most days the only way I get out of bed it was interesting enough to try. Here is an article on it if anyone is interested. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/22/butter-in-coffee-bulletproof_n_5851456.html

More info on Damien Darhk here. (For some reason I can't get it to copy) http://www.comicvine.com/damien-darhk/4005-56627/ He's a major crimes figure, wanted by the FBI and CIA, with a connection to H.I.V.E and an expert with tech. Known for staying in touch with his organization using the latest technology. That could, stressing could because again no faith, link Felicity and Diggle to HIVE with this guy as her father. And link in with Russia's Bratva storyline with his connect to the underworld. But like Foreverevolving pointed out, this all pretty on the nose to hint at when Season 3 isn't over. Unless they are trying to keep viewers heading into season 4

I think they just said that H.I.V.E and Felicity's father are planned for season 4. Epic, game changing, internet breaking, things will never be the same plans I'm sure. *sigh* This show has turned me into such a cynic.

There is a DC character named Damien Darhk who was a member of the Second H.I.V.E http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.I.V.E.#Second_H.I.V.E. But I'm not getting my hopes up for that storyline. With this show I'm sure I'll hear all about how they have great things for H.I.V.E in season 5, it had to be pushed back, but wait for it, it will be EPIC.