crossover

Really don't understand this statement? She's hanging on to a major part of her life. She shouldn't rewrite history to make it look better.

Thanks. I've mixed Bonner and Nick up all season. They've been interchangeable for me. But I was surprised by the support that Bonner had. Reminded me of Ty Murray who also came from the rodeo scene, I THINK. So Sharna received a better gift than the bachelor.

Maybe you're right because the avg viewer is not going to think about "covering up" if the judges don't say anything. They'll either like it or not. But he does put his partners in achievable movement. Sometimes he'll just ignore the syllabus and take his chances with the voters. MAYBE because the celeb didn't look good in a particular style or did the steps horribly?

I thought the show did warn against voting via ABC online/official DWTS twitter that season during the finals? If so, I don't call that whining. She just retweeted in support of Val. I am sure she'll always remember that time of her life.

If we're going for boy band members as ringers, I guess all entertainers will apply.

But it feels more lopsided because in the last 10 seasons, there's been 7 female and only 3 male (includes Rashad). They've always had celebs with some experience. However, the women really didn't become competitive until they started allowing celebs with loads of experience.

I thought Val/Normani had a great connection as well. I THINK people were reading too much into Normani facing Tom at the end when he was talking to her. They felt she turned her back on Val as soon as she was eliminated. I think someone's just taught her to be focused on the person interviewing/talking to her and make eye contact. You can't make eye contact if you're looking at Val. As she matures, she'll learn how to manage this better. I don't think Sharna would've won with Rashad. In fact, I was thinking it was lucky for Rashad that TPTB decided to give Emma and Sasha gifts this season. Sharna couldn't take Charlie to F4. This season had more than "Meryl" to contend with. So this would've been another "bad timing" for Sharna.

You beat me on this one. I didn't start thinking about a male winner until about week 5 or 6. I was holding out for a "ringer show down".

I don't think winning makes a difference either. But Spanana and I were guessing about when and why things changed. Spanana guess was it was partly because Rashad signed on for the tour. I threw out my guesses but the tour may be a possibility this time. But for it to fit my guesses they would've had to know 2 or 3 weeks ago. Just fun stuff.

I think the best dancer is the only metric you can use if you are saying someone was robbed. It's measurable. Otherwise, you'd have to say you're disappointed. We know Rashad received the highest percentage of scores/votes but not the particulars. And we know the scoring wasn't applied on equal terms. No one knows how many people had Rashad as a favorite vs David or Normani. But everyone can see that Normani is the best dancer of the 3. The "I watch for the dancing" people just need time. They know DWTS is not about the dancing for most voters.

I think Derek has a dedicated fanbase who votes for him and his partner no matter what. So the celeb doesn't have to have the largest fanbase (still has to be decent though). He doesn't really elevate his partner but he does mask them very well. This is an unappreciated face of his choreography.

He surprised a lot of people. This isn't a dance show. It's a reality show based on dancing. He did good but I think he was happy he didn't win. ETA: But I'm glad they cast ringers so that there's some good dancing. I enjoy watching them.

So agree. They really didn't have to do a lot of manipulation until they had to make sure that Simone didn't make the finals. I don't even think they thought David was a surprise. They knew how the Cubs/Red Sox fans are. Normani wasn't my favorite. But after the 2nd week, she was my #2. I loved watching her. You could tell how much dance meant to her through her movement. She needed a huge scoring advantage if she were going to win. Once I saw them bring out the 9 paddles for David, I knew she was done. I was hoping for a David win. He was sweet but I could see TPTB heads exploding had they not been able to fend him off. I really thought he had a chance because Rashad was not that well known. After Monday, he was within 5 points of Normani with a weak DWTS support system but Rashad had 7 points on him with the NFL fans. Obviously, a majority of NFL fans are DWTS fans.

Len probably knew that 1 point meant nothing. They've probably known for some time that the only woman who had a fanbase close to Rashad's or David's was Simone. They would've had to give Normani a lot bigger cushion than a point if he was pulling for her. They would've started early if Normani was the chosen one by not scoring David and Rashad on par with Normani.

I'm glad she decided to do DWTS. She wasn't my favorite but I really enjoyed Val and her.

I can't get worked up about manipulations either. I treat them as a game to try to figure out what they are up to. They do it every season in one way or the other. I'm one of those who think none of the ringers were meant to win. They had to make sure Normani was one of the ringers left because her fan support wasn't close to Rashad's or David's. And they liked how she danced. So she got immunity. Then, they left it up to the fans. They probably knew Simone had more support than Nancy, Nick or Bonner. Then TPTB went into overdrive to make sure that Simone didn't make the finals. I think Simone's support was comparable to Rashad's and David's. TPTB had to try to lessen her fan support to get her out before the finals. So they painted a picture that she was "robotic"; didn't feel dance; only understood gymnastics. They just needed for people to be unsure for a week. So I don't think something happened after Simone's elimination. I think something happened to cause them to eliminate Simone early. It could've been something as mundane as "we haven't had that many male winners lately". Maybe they knew 2 or 3 weeks ago that Rashad would go on tour?

Well it looks like Zendaya still thinks there were issues. "Zendaya Retweeted Alex #TeamValmani I know that's right #TeamValMani let's gooooo?????? @NormaniKordei @iamValC Zendaya added, Alex #TeamValmani @DopeXMani Everyone make sure you get your call votes in too just in case they try & pull a Zendaya on us"

I remember looking this QS up because I didn't remember it. I did notice there was still a lot of distance between them. But the judges thought it was perfect because they got a 30. Had the partnerships been switched and all else remained the same, Zendaya would've won. I don't think things would've remained the same. They would've found a way to keep Zendaya from winning. I don't remember any Disney star as winning? Zendaya and Kyle came in 2nd in their respective seasons. I don't think ABC wants a Disney star to win.

You can always find recognizable waltz elements if waltz is part of a performance. Besides the song and the couple seconds of waltz in hold, I don't see the comparison? Even the kids were used differently because Val and Normani danced with them. The openings were different because Normani had her contemporary solo part vs the kids waltz in SCD. The ending was different because all four dancers showed love to one another vs the kids polite dance ending in SCD. The group routine from SCD was straight waltz from little kids, to young adults, to older adults. Val and Normani had lifts, not always in hold and contemporary/jazz movements. So one routine doesn't remind me of the other.

One of the posters wrote that Sasha and Emma were given gifts this season for announcing their engagement on the show. Maybe so but I'm glad she finally got someone she could win with. It just looked like TPTB were trying so hard to make Sharna happen that they had forgotten about Emma. She and Rashad worked well together from day 1. She really knew how to choreograph for him to put him in the best light. He wasn't my favorite but Congrats!!

I thought this was interesting as well. Sharna has had the better partners which would include Charlie who did not make the T4. Sharna and Lindsay had recognizable partners this season (large fanbases) by a lot of people--ABC bachelor and baseball player for the cubs/red sox. So they weren't strapped down this season. I would hope they would give Lindsay the gifted dance partner with a great fanbase next time. But I don't think TPTB are going to manipulate the next season as hard as they did this season toward the end. They got the male winner. So next season probably doesn't matter. Lindsay's had 5 partners with 4 making T4 (80%). Victor Ortiz, her first, ended in 8th place. Sharna's had 9 partners with 4 making T4 (44%). Sharna had two partners finished in 12th place. So Lindsay's done more with less (quality and quantity).

Kellie was a good dancer. She wasn't the ringer that Zendaya was but she was close. I didn't remember Kellie's redemption QS so I looked it up. If the routine was judged last night, Len and Julianne would've said there's too much distance between them. As you know, the judges aren't consistent either. There's nearly always something the judges can call out on a QS, if they want to. But Derek does choreographs great QSs. Last night, Val's was too fast or something. Had Normani had on the skirt and Val had more "shade", Len might've let theirs go as well. We'll never know.

Didn't Normani have on heels?

I guess I didn't explain my point of view clearly. Because TPTB had already evened the playing field by giving Normani harder movements/routines and she performs just as well or better than the others, the scoring should be comparable. I can see them being stricter on Normani when judging. But I don't think it's fair if the others can have mistakes and still get 10s for easier routines. Yet Normani has to be perfect in order to get 10s. But I can see them equating a specific content-lite routine from Normani as the same as dreadful feet or posture from the others. Maybe they all will get 8s. But Normani shouldn't get an 8 and the others 9s. David FTW!!! It will be epic. ETA: And yes I do think TPTB let the pros know when they have a celeb with dancing chops, they should up the game in the choreography.

Lately, that's what the judges do. They use to use the freestyle to separate but not lately. But then, TPTB didn't use to be as manipulative throughout the entire season like they are now. The redemption dance scores let you know who they want as the winner or at least the F2.