crossover

Has Len ever given a QS redemption dance a 10, Val or not? It is one of those styles that you can always find something wrong. And, it is hard for the celeb not to do something wrong. It's probably one of those dances judged on a curve. I remember Normani's fans being happy that she got QS in week 1 while there were still a full cast. They were probably sick when they found out she had to do it again.

I can see them being stricter on Normani than the other 2 but she's no ballroom dancer. Her moves and routines are already more challenging. If they can't see where Normani deserves 10s, no one does. TPTB can't let the competition get away with easier movements, easier routines and easier standards.

I think the reason people don't bring up Paige in that way is she didn't win. During her season, some people did make sure everyone knew she had training. There's been plenty of dance-trained celebs (ringers during their season) who didn't win. So people don't bring them up as much.

Sometimes people just don't connect with an artist for whatever reason--looks, smile, how they move, feel tptb is trying to force the celeb down their throat, etc.

Yep. They worked really hard to get Normani in the finals instead of Simone. They accomplished their goal. Surely they don't want Val to win back-to-back.

Of course she's been nitpicked. There was this one little mistake at the beginning, content-lite, little incident, more in hold, clothes etc. But they should nitpicked her because she came in with dance experience. If her fanbase isn't strong enough to overcome, so be it. But they should do it for all dance-advanced celebs. Rashad's been critiqued--meaning anyone could see his errors. The judges let you know the flaws but bathe them in praises as well. So there is a difference. Same with David except they remind people of what a "good guy" he is.

Agree with this. And I know Val knows this as well. The pros use smoke and all kinds of things to hide their celeb but Val doesn't use the flowy gown? Every since the judges started sniding Simone, I felt they wanted Normani in the finals instead of Simone. I started thinking they wanted Normani because her fanbase doesn't match up to David's or Rashad's. Now with Val purposely costuming Normani like he did makes me believe they wanted another little dig to make sure Normani doesn't win. Wouldn't it be something if David wins after one of the best talented seasons with Nancy, Heather, Simone and Normani?

I guess the term is subjective. But during their seasons, most of those ladies were deemed ringers. I'd also add Jennifer Grey as a ringer. I don't recall Brooke or Kelli as being called ringers but I recall them as being physically active; exercise, yoga, dance when they were kids etc. But I still think Zendaya was the ringer during Kelli's season. And I remember Brooke as being the best technical dancer during her season. And they still had to give Warren Sapp really low scores to make sure that Brooke won. Not saying Sapp didn't deserve the low scores but it's kind of unusual for the judges to give low scores during the finals. Look at Rashad and David. David's stompy/butt revealing waltz got 8s and 9s. Rashad's weak lift and being out of sync got 10's. David FTW.

Did Nancy say in this interview how she trained for the Colgate Skating & Gymnastics Spectacular 2017?

And ability makes a difference as well when it comes to sports. I do know about how people slant reasoning to support their favorite. If they like someone, experience doesn't matter. If they don't, there's no worse sin than experience. I enjoy Normani because she's an expressive dancer. But I could care less if she wins.

You're right. Improvement is subjective too. I remember Normani's first week. There was a river between Val and her. I guess she had to get use to dancing with a partner and in heels because now she doesn't have that issue. Her arm movements have gotten more refined etc. So I did see improvement. It's easier to see Nancy, David and Rashad's improvements because they weren't consistent from week to week.

I like Derek and Mark. And Simone would've been better off because of their fanbases. When she won with Mark, there weren't 3 other women who could flat out dance. The judges hung with her because she was the favorite female that season. So she had time to grow into the dancing role. She started off just like Simone.

You don't know when was the last time Nancy's taken dance class. She's one of your favorites too since you're trying to change the narrative. She did well regardless of her age. She kept herself in good shape. ETA: Just noticed your partner angle. Normani, Heather, Simone weren't ballroom dancers either. They didn't dance with partners.

I could tell that you were thrilled. When it's your favorite, you don't care about their experience.

You do realize that figure skaters take a ton of dance classes, right? If you think Normani is too trained, you'd have to put Nancy with her. She most certainly doesn't belong with David or Rashad.

I'm sure Bindi took classes later than 3 or 6. She probably just wasn't good. Anyway, it looks like you are talking about Heather. She was a professional dancer for Beyonce but not ballroom. It gave her an advantage of course but they critique her hard as well.

I didn't know Normani was a paid dancer. I thought she was just a gifted dance student. Since you said she's like Heather (professional) I'm surprised she found work with all the things you say she needs to work on. It's good she has this singing thing as a backup. But besides Rashad/Emma, I think Normani/Val had a great connection. I'll have to agree with CAI on this one. They dance as one and complete each other. She elevates Val's choreography.

I'm different from you. I believe she had dance lessons just like most girls her age. She was probably just not gifted.

Yes, both girls have a "screen" face. Seeing both of these girls background, I can see why they do. They're very defensive and unsure of people's motives. They're just 20. They'll learn. In fact, maybe the show helped. But Normani shows real emotions when she performs. You can tell how much she loves dance.

The show has been sniding Simone for a couple of weeks. They didn't put up a positive package on her either during that time. They were trying to manipulate the voters against her. It worked. I call that rigging. Tonight she had the best packages, best comments and best scores. They knew she was leaving so they no longer had to manipulate. Speaking of hiding ineptness, no one did a better job than Derek of masking Bindi.

That's the original concept of the show. But TPTB realized that most of the public just voted on who they liked to see. Most don't know enough about dance to see who improved the most (learn to dance the best). So they changed it to your favorite. The judges are still suppose to score on improvement. But sometimes they have an agenda and don't follow through each week. Most times they just score on how well the celeb executed/performed but not the improvement angle. I can see an improvement in Normani. In week 1, there was so much space between Val and her. Not anymore. She doesn't have training in ballroom dance but she does have dance training. So did she improve more than Rashad? She most definitely performs better.

I've noticed back-handed compliments. Bindi must've really grated on you.

But the untrained only works on this show if you're male.

I thought I had seen an interview where Val said he's known Alan since he was 9?

OK. I was thinking you were referring to her as a main choreographer.