lezlers

I think the extent of Mama Dawn's concerns are what will people think. What will people think if Corey and Miranda have the twins more than Leah? What will people think if people find out Leah is going to rehab? What will people think if they find out her daughter is a pill head? The level of denial with both Leah and Mama Dawn was sad to watch. The only entertaining scene with Jenelle was the "dramastically" speech. God that girl is dumb. And no one can argue that she doesn't put men before her children. She did EXACTLY that by deciding to beg for Nathan back (co-dependency anyone?) when she was told straight up it would prevent her from getting Jace back. That girl has more issues than a magazine rack. I thought Chelsea's scenes were adorable. But that baby voice is like nails on a chalkboard. I felt bad for Javi in that scene of him helping Jo. He was super awkward, messing up the whole "too far to walk, too close to drive" explanation for using Isaac's scooter. Poor guy. Jo and his buddy were really cool to him though. I thought it was a really nice gesture. And I agree with everyone else that Kail's real problem seems to be with Vee as a neighbor, not Jo.

Holy shit that scene with Leah nodding off while holding that baby? When her brother had to say "Leah!" before someone came and got the baby? Oh nooooo, she doesn't have a drug problem at ALL. Nope! Even my husband, who doesn't watch this show, came in and said "who's the druggy?" He left when Leah was telling her girls "see you when I get back" and I started yelling at the TV "IN TWO FUCKING DAYS!!!"

Yes, I'm aware of the requirements. As previously stated, I'm a lawyer. It was more wishful thinking than an actual plan of action for Kail.

Who? A judge is the only person who can, legally. Didn't think that actually needed an answer. She's got standing family law orders. Mandated counseling can become one of them. Not anger management, not couples counseling, but one on one counseling with a therapist to work through lingering issues from her childhood if that's the root of her problems. Not saying it's a guaranteed "cure", Kail might just be a lost cause. However, still being young and coming from what she did, I'm not quite ready to write her off as a horrible person incapable of redemption. If that puts me in the minority camp on this issue, it's a place I'm quite satisfied to be in.

A lot of people are forced into counseling and are the better for it. Like the majority of my clients. Again, everyone seems to think I'm excusing Kail's behavior. I'm not. I'm simply saying I empathize with her and can understand how her upbringing led to it. It's still bad behavior and it still needs to be changed. Life is not as simplistic as many seem to think it is.

It's an explanation, not an excuse. Having empathy for someone doesn't mean you excuse their bad behavior. I would hope that you, working in a therapy center, have more empathy towards your patients than reality stars. I'm a public defender and though my clients drive me insane more often than not, being able to empathize with them and see how their upbringing lead them to their current behavior is imperative to understanding them and ultimately helping them. Some people are beyond help, others aren't. It takes more than a stern "get over yourself, childhood is over!" to move past the only learned behaviors they know.

Leah isn't on meth. It's been very clearly established that she prefers opiates. Drug addicts are impressively loyal to their drug of choice. Opiates and amphetamines are very different drugs. If someone is trying to make shit up about Leah, they clearly don't know anything about drug users. It's either Jenelle or completely fabricated.

That's a great point. In a lot of areas the standard custody schedule is every other weekend and Wednesdays for dads. That's not a whole lot of time. And it's always the dads who get the kids 20% vs the moms' 80%. As a society, we're conditioned to believe that children belong with the mother. Just look at all the drama with Kelly Rutherford and her custody. She got her ex's visa revoked to prevent him from coming into the country and then when the courts ordered the children to be with him in Monaco, they come to visit her and she refuses to return them. What would be considered kidnapping if it had happened at the hands of the father is written about in the press as a desperate mother's attempts to defend the rights of her children and everyone sympathizes with her! They assume, just because she's the mother, that the children should be with her in America knowing their father would never be able to see them again due to the actions of their mother. It's appalling. And this is coming from the mother of two children.

The little sympathy I have for Kail is because of her upbringing. You can't have a childhood like hers and not be damaged from it. She's the way she is because it's all she knows. She grew up watching her mom live off other people so she thinks that's how people live. She knows no other way. She's done (and continues to do) some absolutely infuriating things, but I do have empathy for her. She needs someone in a position of authority (like a judge) however, to call her on it and let her know it's not okay. Some mandated counseling wouldn't hurt either.

You know what really kills me? You KNOW all of these holler people were probably pissed a the SCOTUS ruling legalizing same sex marriage. You know, because it's ruining the sanctity of marriage and all that. Yet trailer park princesses like Leah can have 6 month marriage after 6 month marriage and no one bats an eyelash. Gah.

I forgot about that whole running back to Corey, then when he wouldn't immediately commit to being in it 100% (being totally justified in his cautiousness) running back to Jeremy and marrying him. That was especially callous and self-centered. She all but told Jeremy "because Corey won't have me, I suppose I'll marry YOU." And he DID! No wonder she has a princess complex. No doubt whatsoever that Kail is a total user. She learned that from her useless, degenerate mother.

I made my statement about Kail being a decent friend based on the fact that she's maintained her friendships over a long period of time. If she was that shitty of a friend, she wouldn't have the same core group of friends for 6+ years. That's not to say she's perfect (and in a show like this they're only going to show the dramatic times anyway) just that I don't see her holding a gun to any of her friends heads forcing them to keep being her friend so she's got to be doing something right. On that note, Charles Manson had a lot of "friends" too. ;)

Yessss. I'm around the same age as Mama Dawn and I have a 3 year old and an 8 month old. If I lived in WV, I could totally be a grandma right now. That is terrifying.

I think a lot of posters get a little "bitch eating crackers" over some of these girls. Kail is awful in a lot of ways, but not everything she does and says is evil or wrong or bitchy. One thing I've noticed about Kail is that she's maintained a lot of long term friendships. She's definitely a shitty partner, but she seems to be a pretty decent friend. This, a thousand times!! If you're against marriage period, that's one thing. But not being married because you're not "ready" yet purposefully getting pregnant is just dumb. And immature. That's what everyone is saying though. Everyone who has commented about the backwardsness of starting a family without being married has specifically said this doesn't apply to people who aren't interested in marriage in general. So we're not talking about your situation.

37 over here. No shame!

So then why didn't you ask for it? I'm not asking that to start shit, I'm genuinely curious. You sound like you don't like the fact that you can't leave your kids with their father when you need to because your custody agreement won't let you, but that agreement can be easily changed via modification of the existing order. ETA: Sorry, I just read your response above. Sounds like your ex is the kind of dick that WOULD drag you back to court if you left the kids with him in an emergency. What a jackass. Sorry you have to deal with that. :( I doubt Corey or Jo would pull that shit, tho. That was my point.

Custody won't shift unless one parent takes the other to court though. So as long as the parent who is watching the kids for the other parent doesn't act like a dick and drag them to court, it would be no problem. Also, in many custody cases the other parent has "right of first refusal" meaning, if the custodial parent needs childcare for whatever reason, the non-custodial parent is supposed to be asked first, before anyone else. That kind of goes against what you're saying.

I thought she was the one that introduced Kail to Javi.

I can buy into this with the exception of Sterling. Kail and Chelsea are the only ones who have had the same friends for years. Peach has been around for a few years, if I recall. I think Kail does actually treasure her girlfriends, more so than her significant others, which is the problem. She does use people, that's for certain, but I haven't seen her run through friends like, say, Jenelle or Leah. Also, I don't think it's odd (you didn't say this, but other posters have) that Aubrey and family are good with the outcome of the case. Chelsea visited the family visitation center and was uneasy about it (I can see why.) If I were in her position, I'd be happy with no change as well.

Agree to disagree. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, kazu, I'm merely stating my opinion as you so often do. I think it's a dumb decision for the reasons stated. *shrug*

Not to defend Kail or her ridiculous life choices, but her first pregnancy was accidental and when she got pregnant again, she at least had MTV money which, if she wasn't such a horrible decision maker, could've lasted her a long time if invested wisely. Not to mention the fact that just because one person makes dumb decisions doesn't mean another has to follow suit. A dumb decision is a dumb decision. Vee is in her early twenties, with someone who has not formally committed to her in any way and has JUST moved away from her support system. Getting pregnant right now wasn't smart. That doesn't mean she won't be a great mom or end up blissfully happy (I doubt that, but hey, stranger things have happened).

DUH. Kail is the MOM. That automatically means she gets the kids 80% of the time, it doesn't matter if Jo is just as involved a parent as she is! Hell, it doesn't matter if Jo is a BETTER parent than she is! MOM = full custody. Always. No matter what the circumstances. Just ask Mama Dawn.

I'm nervous for Vee. Being pregnant and having a new baby is when you need family around the most. Moving far away from your family (I realize 3 hours isn't across the country or anything but it's still a big deal if you've always lived nearby) during that time is pretty dumb. I have no doubt that Vee wanted to get pregnant to level the playing field with Kail. I think it's also her way of trying to keep Jo and Issac from chasing Kail all over the country (although Kail does have to get permission from the court to pick up and move with Issac, although she's totally ignored that requirement in the past.) Vee's better than Kail but she's still young and naïve herself and made a poor decision. I'm glad she's having a girl, though, that should really stick in Kail's craw.

Oh giiiiiiiiiirl. I'm in court at least half the day every day. You would be AMAZED by the outfits that come through here. I once had a client show up in pajama pants. PAJAMA PANTS. Swear to god. I won't even get into the clients I've had to drag out in the hall, making them turn their marijuana leaf or Budwiser t-shirt inside out so the judge didn't see it before appearing for their weed/alcohol case.

I actually read it as the opposite. To her, Issac is the world. Or as a reminder to her to do well, since she is someone's world. Not that she's doing a bang-up job, but, you know, aspirations and all that.