S02.E03: Ghosts

[MarkHB]

Quote

With the reemergence of Dr. Light, the old Titans reluctantly return to Titans Tower to strategize against their old enemy. But the secrets of the Titans’ past threaten to tear apart this newly formed team from within. While the old Titans question Dick’s acceptance of Rose Wilson into their midst, the new Titans start to wonder about the unspoken tragedy that disbanded the group years before. Meanwhile, an old friend from Kory’s home planet of Tamaran comes to Earth with an urgent mission.

 

[Jenniferbug]

Gosh, costuming did such a subtle job with Jason's wardrobe this week LOL

Ready for next week when we finally get some flashbacks. Hope it's the whole episode and it better be worth it. At this point, I'm honestly more interested in original Titans than Teen Titans. 

Kory got more of a plot this week, and it sounds like more will come of it later in the season. I'm happy to see her with the others again. 

Oh Jason. You dumb idiot. I do think the writing and the acting is doing a good job of showing why Jason is the way he is and what is pushing him to act the way he does. He's still stupid and I wish better for him, but it does make sense and it's always in character. I do feel bad for him for what's coming. 

I'm not remembering Hawk and Dove's backstory from last year very well. Did we know that Hank had such an issue with addiction? I thought that kind of came out of nowhere in the premiere and now it's discussed like it's a known part of him. I like seeing his interactions with Dick and the rest of the team.

Doctor Light still looks really cool. I did not understand why they didn't suit up to face him. I know Dick doesn't have a suit anymore, but surely Hank's suit would have provided some protection against his flesh wound? Also they don't seem concerned about protecting their identities? Interesting that Deathstroke and Light seem to know exactly who they are. 

Not interested in Rose. Her talk with Rachel was nice, but I don't like her and don't want her eating up screentime. I'm also not that interested in Rachel's story. It feels like there's already enough going on, and they could have saved this darkness whatever for next season after showing small hints this season. 

Still loving Gar. He's adorable and I like how he fits into the team. I'm not sure how they can ever really focus on him much since his backstory in this show is so tied to Doom Patrol (which I just could NOT get into, and I normally like weird and quirky). 

ETA: Donna has super speed?! And there were 7 areas for costumes- were there 7 Titans in the past? 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Jenniferbug

[Primal Slayer]

It was an ok episode.

Korys storyline had every trope you could think of and just isn't interesting. But from the sounds of it they wont be going with her comic origins (well I guess they already changed it from being sold into slavery to being tasked with hunting Raven). Cant wait to get to Blackfire, I hope she is everything I dream of her being.

Definitely starting to think that Gar is just going to be the tech nerd, he isn't able to be fully utilized so I wonder how long they will keep him out of the battlefield. How did he/Jason get all the way to the warehouse only for Gar to notice that Jason is suited up?

Doctor Light...he has a fairly simple costume...not sure why they had to give him some ugly gladiator thing to wear. But of course the episodes ends at the most interesting part lol.

I need more of the OG Titans though, that seems like the best storyline this season.

[Jenniferbug]

Yeah Kory's story isn't super thrilling. I do like the guy who came to get her. My best guess is that she'll run into Connor on her way to the tower, and that's how he'll be integrated. Maybe the season will end with the other guys from her planet coming for her or possibly her going back to her home world so we can get her sister in season 3. 

I think the other thing holding Gar back from more focus is that his abilities would eat up the CGI budget if used regularly. I do hope they figure out a way to give him some more focus because he is awesome. 

I wish we could have gotten a scene of Bruce with Jason. I just can't see this Bruce meeting Jason and being like "yeah, we totally get along, let me show you the bat cave and make you my replacement son."

[Sakura12]

11 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

ETA: Donna has super speed?! And there were 7 areas for costumes- were there 7 Titans in the past?

Donna should have super strength, speed and flight. She has all of Wonder Woman's powers. She's not as a fast as Superman or Flash, but she is faster than any normal person. She's kind of overpowered for a side kick. I think the 7 are Robin, Wonder Girl, Hawk, Dove, Aqualad, Speedy and Jericho. I think Aqualad and Jericho died. 

I think they sort of implied Hank was an addict when they showed him shooting up and drinking after they fought the penis cutting guy. 

What was Dick's plan exactly to walk up straight up to a guy with super powers and what exactly. Stare him to death. I also agree that I'd rather see the OG Titans. Gar's an idiot for listening to Jason. And Jason's just an idiot. 

I'm glad Kory's joining the team. Her storyline with her bodyguard was a lot more boring than I thought it was going to be. Don't really care about Rose. She's just another that's getting more screen time than the ones we already have. I really hope this isn't going to be the Rose, Dick and Rachel show now. Poor Gar needs more story. 

[MarkHB]

They never did explain how Kory lost her memories before the start of last season, did they?

[Sakura12]

I'm assuming Kory lost her memory from the car accident. It looked like she hit her head and was knocked out for a bit. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by Sakura12

[phoenics]

Finally a good episode.

I loved that Kory is finally getting some focus.  I think the way they've set it up will lead to more interesting stuff but finally another character besides Robin, Raven, Hank or Dawn is getting focus - and AD is second billed so this is her rightful due - finally!  I think the reason it's dragging a bit is either because they don't want to reveal too much but wanted to drop hints about what may come regarding Tamaran, her sister and the legions who will come to collect her for not showing up.  I doubt this will hold all season - they'll be back to get her probably mid-season - perhaps complicating the battle with Slade, which I imagine will take all season (it should).

Also - if her storyline was full of "tropes", I was happy to see them.  My hope is they establish some grounding in her backstory and then surprise with a few twists.

I just want her focus to have real impact on the show - Dick and Rachel shouldn't be the only ones to drive story.  

Slade is a SCARY villain.  Damn.  I'm terrified for Jason.  Who better not die.  I keep wondering what their plan is with him.  I get shiffs of Damian Wayne in his portrayal at times but other times it's just regular Jason Todd.  There are so many ways they could go with this - but I don't think they'll kill him this soon.  He's one of my favorite Titans.  And poor Gar!  I'm beyond frustrated that no one is discussing his new powers but I hope we get some focus on how he's feeling after what's happened to Jason.

I may be in the minority - but the only reason I'm interested in the OG Titans is to figure out what happened in the past.  Beyond that - I don't need them. At all.  I want the real Titans - the main 4.  I'm fine with the OG Titans there to flesh out the past but not to usurp the show and make it all about them.  Sorry but I'm interested in Titans 2.0, not this show's version of OG Titans with Hawk and Dove (WTF) or Young Justice.

I hope Hank and Dawn get that spinoff show they're apparently in line for so they can exit stage left and we can get the other real Titans on this show.

I'm hoping the writers don't plan on dropping focus on Kory now that they've capped her Royal storyline with dude locked in the ship.  But I also want to see her back with the main crew.

Her chat with Rachel - awwwwww.  I'm tired of Rachel eating storylines but that moment really got me.  Now, if only the show could figure out what to do with Gar besides making him a Cisco-clone that they use for comedic effect only.

At some point, I'd like them to stop using Dick as the center of everything - it kinda shoves the other characters like Kory and Gar to the sidelines and that's not really fair to them.  It's even worse when you consider Gar's comic history and

that Slade was HIS arch-nemesis for so many years - but then they gave Slade to Robin (all of the Robins, lol) and left Gar with less story.

.

[Sakura12]

Since Titans 2.0 is Dick, Rachel, Jason, Gar and Kory. I only care about Gar and Kory so I'm more interested in the OG Titans. 

I love that Donna and Kory are friends. I would've liked to see them working together more before they split up. They are pretty much the most powerful people on the team. They are both needed to go up against Slade and Dr. Light. I was happy that Donna kept calling her even after she got to the tower. 

[madhacker]

On 9/20/2019 at 11:21 AM, Jenniferbug said:

Doctor Light still looks really cool. I did not understand why they didn't suit up to face him. I know Dick doesn't have a suit anymore, but surely Hank's suit would have provided some protection against his flesh wound?

I understand that they were trying to do this as subtly as they could but cmon! At the very least Dick should've brought some smoke pellets and batarangs, and while Donna brought her lasso she didn't think she might need her bracelets?  I'm pretty sure those could deflect Light's blasts

As for Jason, yeah hes a total brat but you gotta admit Curran is totally knocking it out of the park. I feel about him the same way I felt about Jack Gleeson (Jeoffery from GOT), hate the character but love the actor (btw look up Curran Walters anytime on youtube. He's totally adorable and the complete opposite of Jason Todd)

Edited September 21, 2019 by madhacker

[Primal Slayer]

4 hours ago, phoenics said:

  I think the reason it's dragging a bit is either because they don't want to reveal too much but wanted to drop hints about what may come regarding Tamaran, her sister and the legions who will come to collect her for not showing up.  I doubt this will hold all season - they'll be back to get her probably mid-season - perhaps complicating the battle with Slade, which I imagine will take all season (it should).

I would agree.....but we are still going into our 2nd season with them having to "come together" and build a team which is what they tried to do in S1 so it's just high time we get a bonafide team that agrees that they are a team.

4 hours ago, phoenics said:

I may be in the minority - but the only reason I'm interested in the OG Titans is to figure out what happened in the past.  Beyond that - I don't need them. At all.  I want the real Titans - the main 4.  I'm fine with the OG Titans there to flesh out the past but not to usurp the show and make it all about them.  Sorry but I'm interested in Titans 2.0, not this show's version of OG Titans with Hawk and Dove (WTF) or Young Justice.

All of these characters are the real Titans. They've been established as Titans since S1, especially H&D who've been with the show since the 2nd episode. 

[Sakura12]

If we go by the show. The Titans were Dick, Donna, Hank and Dawn and the new teen Titans are Rachel, Gar and Jason being lead by Dick. Kory hasn't officially joined any Titan's team yet. 

Being that she's closer in age to the OG Titan's she'd be with them and be a mentor to the younger team. Since we are not getting the Justice League, all the characters are the Titans. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Sakura12

[Primal Slayer]

19 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

If we go by the show. The Titans were Dick, Donna, Hank and Dawn and the new teen Titans are Rachel, Gar and Jason being lead by Dick. Kory hasn't officially joined any Titan's team yet. 

Being that she's closer in age to the OG Titan's she'd be with them and be a mentor to the younger team. Since we are not getting the Justice League, all the characters are the Titans. 

Which is something I kind of wish they didn't do. We're jumping into the middle of an established universe and having Mentors/Mentees that we still don't know that well was the wrong move imo. 

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

All of these characters are the real Titans. They've been established as Titans since S1, especially H&D who've been with the show since the 2nd episode. 

You took me out of context.  I was attempting to specify that I wanted the Titans the show set up to be the main ones - the actual leads on this show (as evidenced in the Titans graphic banner showing their silhouettes.  I even said Titans 2.0 is what I mean by main Titans.  I want what this show promised us by focusing in all of the press leading up to the show on the main ones - The Core 4:  Dick, Kory, Gar and Rachel.

Here is my whole comment for the whole context:

I want the real Titans - the main 4.  I'm fine with the OG Titans there to flesh out the past but not to usurp the show and make it all about them. 

Sorry but I'm interested in Titans 2.0, not this show's version of OG Titans with Hawk and Dove (WTF) or Young Justice.

That being said, I do like Donna.  She's cool.  But even she gets short shrift compared to Dawn and Hank.

The extra focus on Hawk & Dove (though I love the actor and actress) just irritates me because there isn't comic canon linking them as main Titans.  They've never appeared as Titans - just guest stars in the comics.  The writers had to create all of those connections to link them into the main plot.  They literally had to CREATE that canon for them to be so closely connected to Dick.

But they can't find a way to give Gar more story?

That's my issue with the writing on this show.  If they WANTED to give Gar more story (and even still, Kory), they could. Because they snatched and stole comic stories and gave them to Hank and Dawn (who were not Titans - they only guest starred in some Titans comic issues)  - they could easily rip off some stories and give them to Gar/Kory - just change elements, etc..

If they spin off Dawn and Hank then I might be able to forgive all of this focus, but if it doesn't I need them to stop treating D&H like they're leads on this show when they aren't.  

Some fans have said here that they find the OG Titans more interesting - amazing how that works when the writers have given them interior lives and a lot of focus plus a really interesting backstory mystery.  Imagine how interesting Kory/Gar could be if the show spent as much time thinking about them as characters.

[phoenics]

3 hours ago, madhacker said:

As for Jason, yeah hes a total brat but you gotta admit Curran is totally knocking it out of the park. I feel about him the same way I felt about Jack Gleeson (Jeoffery from GOT), hate the character but love the actor (btw look up Curran Walters anytime on youtube. He's totally adorable and the complete opposite of Jason Todd)

Wow - you see Jason the way you saw Jeoffery?  Goodness, lol.  I wanted Jeoffery dead on GoT - but Jason is endearing-ly annoying.  He's frustratingly bratty but I kinda get why.  He feels abandoned and demoted by Batman and now he feels even more left out and demoted from "grown hero stuff" by Dick.  So he's overcompensating to "prove" he belongs with the big boys - but in doing so he just proves why he's not ready for primetime.

He gives me Damian Wayne vibes in his frustration at being left out - it's gotta be hard to go from being Batman's sidekick to training with newbies and then to see the OGs doing the real work.

Sad thing is, had Dick just been honest with all of the new Titans about Slade and all of the history, Jason might not have acted out so much.  Oh and maybe if he hadn't body slammed him with such ease (though I did laugh outloud).

[Primal Slayer]

13 minutes ago, phoenics said:

You took me out of context.  I was attempting to specify that I wanted the Titans the show set up to be the main ones - the actual leads on this show (as evidenced in the Titans graphic banner showing their silhouettes.  I even said Titans 2.0 is what I mean by main Titans.  I want what this show promised us by focusing in all of the press leading up to the show on the main ones - The Core 4:  Dick, Kory, Gar and Rachel.

Here is my whole comment for the whole context:

That being said, I do like Donna.  She's cool.  But even she gets short shrift compared to Dawn and Hank.

The extra focus on Hawk & Dove (though I love the actor and actress) just irritates me because there isn't comic canon linking them as main Titans.  They've never appeared as Titans - just guest stars in the comics.  The writers had to create all of those connections to link them into the main plot.  They literally had to CREATE that canon for them to be so closely connected to Dick.

But they can't find a way to give Gar more story?

That's my issue with the writing on this show.  If they WANTED to give Gar more story (and even still, Kory), they could. Because they snatched and stole comic stories and gave them to Hank and Dawn (who were not Titans - they only guest starred in some Titans comic issues)  - they could easily rip off some stories and give them to Gar/Kory - just change elements, etc..

If they spin off Dawn and Hank then I might be able to forgive all of this focus, but if it doesn't I need them to stop treating D&H like they're leads on this show when they aren't.  

Some fans have said here that they find the OG Titans more interesting - amazing how that works when the writers have given them interior lives and a lot of focus plus a really interesting backstory mystery.  Imagine how interesting Kory/Gar could be if the show spent as much time thinking about them as characters.

Promotion was all over the place, even if they did center more on Dick, Kory, Gar, and Rachel...they still had promotional material featuring H/D

But even Titans 2.0 technically wouldn't even have Kory since she never joined the team.

And Hawk/Dove were Titans for a brief period of time. They joined them for about a year and then went on to do Titans East&West

While they've never been popular Titans.....and not Titans I'd have chosen to include (at least not without the Chaos&Order bit)....they're Titans. 

[Sakura12]

9 hours ago, phoenics said:

Sad thing is, had Dick just been honest with all of the new Titans about Slade and all of the history, Jason might not have acted out so much.

Donna even told him to tell them what happened and he was like, nah. Being raised by Batman he was taught to be guarded and not trust people. He's teaching them exactly like he hated being treated.  I like that they are showing that he has the right idea but he's in over his head. 

I actually don't mind that they were thrown into an established universe. We kind of have to be since they were the side kicks of the Justice League heroes. So the JL has to have existed already for them to exist. I also like meeting them older and jaded, they are also around the age of JL when they were taken in. And now they are having to teach their own kind of sidekicks. 

[Jenniferbug]

On 9/20/2019 at 10:08 PM, Sakura12 said:

Donna should have super strength, speed and flight. She has all of Wonder Woman's powers. She's not as a fast as Superman or Flash, but she is faster than any normal person. She's kind of overpowered for a side kick. I think the 7 are Robin, Wonder Girl, Hawk, Dove, Aqualad, Speedy and Jericho. I think Aqualad and Jericho died. 

I think they sort of implied Hank was an addict when they showed him shooting up and drinking after they fought the penis cutting guy. 

Agreed. I think they were the original 7, something happened to Jericho (probably death, probably something the Titans felt was preventable, hence the guilt and mention of sins), Deathstroke is pissed and comes after them, and Aqualad dies. Not sure why Rose thinks her father killed her brother, but I'm guessing she's wrong. 

Wow, I do not remember him shooting up in that episode! I must have missed that when I rewatched season 1. I did skip their focus episode later in the season when I rewatched too. Thank you for pointing that out! 

[Jenniferbug]

15 hours ago, phoenics said:

Wow - you see Jason the way you saw Jeoffery?  Goodness, lol.  I wanted Jeoffery dead on GoT - but Jason is endearing-ly annoying.  He's frustratingly bratty but I kinda get why.  He feels abandoned and demoted by Batman and now he feels even more left out and demoted from "grown hero stuff" by Dick.  So he's overcompensating to "prove" he belongs with the big boys - but in doing so he just proves why he's not ready for primetime.

He gives me Damian Wayne vibes in his frustration at being left out - it's gotta be hard to go from being Batman's sidekick to training with newbies and then to see the OGs doing the real work.

Sad thing is, had Dick just been honest with all of the new Titans about Slade and all of the history, Jason might not have acted out so much.  Oh and maybe if he hadn't body slammed him with such ease (though I did laugh outloud).

This is my take on Jason as well. After hearing for years about how much the character sucks, I'm finding myself pretty sympathetic to him here. He's annoying and consistently makes the wrong choice, but I understand why he's doing it. Do we know the character ages? I also get the sense that he may be a bit older than the others which (coupled with his experience as a sidekick) also adds to his desire to be accepted as one of the older group. I'd put him around 19 to Gar's 16/17 and Rachel's 14/15. 

[Sakura12]

I can understand why people think Hawk and Dove don't really fit. Because last season Dick and Kory kind felt like the parents to teen Titans so it made sense. Even Donna could kind of fit since she's sort of Dick's sister and he goes to her when he wants advice that's not from his dad. Dawn is a former girlfriend of Dick that's dating a new guy.  So they feel like outsiders. 

They've even had Donna and Kory hang out together for 3 months and become friends. I suppose Donna and Dawn could be friends but I don't even think we've seen them talk to each other in the episodes they appeared together in. Hank and Dawn are mostly only talking to each other. 

[AnimeMania]

I am surprised that Gar couldn't modify himself to "cheat" during blindfolded combat. Bats have echolocation, Sharks can sense electromagnetic fields, and Snakes can sense infrared heat. Raven should have also been able to release some black mist that might allow her to detect when someone was in contact with it.

Starfire should have used her spaceship to travel from Chicago to San Francisco. She could have been there in seconds.

The team should have suited up, they didn't even bring weapons.  

How many people were surprised when Dick slapped Robin to the ground? How many people were surprised when Robin was captured?

[Sakura12]

Gar and Rachel don't know how to control their powers. Fight training is good to learn but they have extra abilities that will help them. That's why they need Kory or I suppose Donna to teach them how to use their powers since no one else on their team has powers besides those two. 

If Kory used her ship to get to San Francisco, where would she have trapped her bodyguard? She was able to trap him because her ship responds only to her and he can't destroy it because it's their only ship to get home. He destroyed his somehow. 

Yeah, I don't know why they didn't suit up to take care of Dr. Light. At least Donna brought her lasso. I didn't know what their plan was, but I think Dick messed it up by just walking up to him instead of waiting for the rest of them. Does Dr. Light have enhanced healing abilities? How did he not get injured after being hit with a motorcycle. 

[AnimeMania]

Kory could have just as easily walked onto the ship and closed the door leaving him behind or walked off the ship in San Francisco, locking him inside.

[Sakura12]

But then he'd know where she was. This way he would be trapped and not know where she went.  

[phoenics]

On 9/21/2019 at 11:26 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Promotion was all over the place, even if they did center more on Dick, Kory, Gar, and Rachel...they still had promotional material featuring H/D

But even Titans 2.0 technically wouldn't even have Kory since she never joined the team.

And Hawk/Dove were Titans for a brief period of time. They joined them for about a year and then went on to do Titans East&West

While they've never been popular Titans.....and not Titans I'd have chosen to include (at least not without the Chaos&Order bit)....they're Titans. 

Ugh - damn new 52.  I'll concede the ORIGINAL H&D were retconned to be in the Titans - but not this Hank and Dawn iteration.  The writers on the show still had to create canon and story linking them so tightly to Dick.  They had to get creative and think beyond the current canon.

And they definitely weren't the focus of the press leading up to the show either.  Like - at all - and in the title credits where they show the silhouette, it's just the Core 4.  The focus was on the Core 4.  

On 9/22/2019 at 2:44 PM, Jenniferbug said:

Agreed. I think they were the original 7, something happened to Jericho (probably death, probably something the Titans felt was preventable, hence the guilt and mention of sins), Deathstroke is pissed and comes after them, and Aqualad dies. Not sure why Rose thinks her father killed her brother, but I'm guessing she's wrong. 

Wow, I do not remember him shooting up in that episode! I must have missed that when I rewatched season 1. I did skip their focus episode later in the season when I rewatched too. Thank you for pointing that out! 

That bolded part right there!  I've been thinking that somehow the OG Titans - or Dick - are gonna be responsible for what happened to Jericho too.

Or maybe he's not really dead?

Edited September 23, 2019 by phoenics

[phoenics]

20 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I can understand why people think Hawk and Dove don't really fit. Because last season Dick and Kory kind felt like the parents to teen Titans so it made sense. Even Donna could kind of fit since she's sort of Dick's sister and he goes to her when he wants advice that's not from his dad. Dawn is a former girlfriend of Dick that's dating a new guy.  So they feel like outsiders. 

They've even had Donna and Kory hang out together for 3 months and become friends. I suppose Donna and Dawn could be friends but I don't even think we've seen them talk to each other in the episodes they appeared together in. Hank and Dawn are mostly only talking to each other. 

I think for me - another reason they don't fit (other than what you've said here, which I agree with) is that the show did a whole episode last season on them which felt gratuitous and wasteful because:

1. They already short changed Gar and Kory in the storytelling for the season.
2. They CUT Kory's episode almost completely, which means instead of her storyline with Fadei (?) feeling like a "finally we get more into what they already showed us" instead it's "finally we get some focus on Kory but oh why does the scene feel like it's being stretched..."
3. The episode for Dawn and Hank didn't tell us ANYTHING about Dawn/Dick which was alluded to in the season finale.  So if they didn't need to go deep into that then why was it necessary to show that episode at all?
4. They didn't spin off Dick/Dawn.
5. Again - GAR and KORY are still just left hanging while those two got a whole ass episode devoted to them alone in a way that broke up the action from the main series.

If the show doesn't do a spinoff then they just screwed their own female lead to promote something that bore no fruit at all.  Also - since Hank/Dawn have no real OG connection to the Titans in comics (again - they've only been guest stars), why did the show go to so much trouble to establish them that way?  The original Hawk and Dove were retconned to be Titans - but that's not the same as THIS incarnation.  The writers had to morph, shift and create story for that to happen.

Once I see that kind of action happen for Gar and Kory, then maybe I'll let my foot off of Hawk/Dove's neck.

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

Ugh - damn new 52.  I'll concede the ORIGINAL H&D were retconned to be in the Titans - but not this Hank and Dawn iteration.  The writers on the show still had to create canon and story linking them so tightly to Dick.  They had to get creative and think beyond the current canon.

This is way before New52 came along. They even briefly joined the team during the original run of NTT. But every iteration of characters adds something to a characters mythos. They did a complete overhaul on Kory outside of her powers and where she comes from. Same with Raven and Gar. But I do agree that they need their own show since their storylines are always very solo compared to the others. 

[phoenics]

17 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

This is way before New52 came along. They even briefly joined the team during the original run of NTT. But every iteration of characters adds something to a characters mythos. They did a complete overhaul on Kory outside of her powers and where she comes from. Same with Raven and Gar. But I do agree that they need their own show since their storylines are always very solo compared to the others. 

I agree with you on them needing their own show - if they'd been integrated better into things by the writers I might have been able to accept it (like Hawkgirl was on Justice League) but when their "inclusion" results in 2 main Titans (from the show's billing perspective) being shoved to the side and marginalized, I call foul.  Okay I scream foul.

I don't agree about the comic history.  Them (the original Hawk and Dove, Don and Hank - not Dawn and Hank) being retconned to be part of the OG Titans didn't happen until new 52.  Essentially they were guest stars or slightly recurring stars before that - not OG Titans and not main Titans.  Guest stars.

Agree on Kory - and totally agree about Gar - I mentioned that change when I talked about how they took away his deep connection and storyline revolving around Slade and gave it to Dick (the comics first).

*sighs* Maybe we need a comics thread here?

Edited September 23, 2019 by phoenics

[Primal Slayer]

52 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I don't agree about the comic history.  Them (the original Hawk and Dove, Don and Hank - not Dawn and Hank) being retconned to be part of the OG Titans didn't happen until new 52.  Essentially they were guest stars or slightly recurring stars before that - not OG Titans and not main Titans.  Guest stars.

Don/Hank joined in 1977, Dawn/Holly joined in 2007. FAR before New52 which happened in 2011. They were never referred to as OG Titans in the comics, but it's no different from the animated series starting the team with Raven/Starfire/Cyborg/Beast Boy as part of the team.

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Don/Hank joined in 1977, Dawn/Holly joined in 2007. FAR before New52 which happened in 2011. They were never referred to as OG Titans in the comics, but it's no different from the animated series starting the team with Raven/Starfire/Cyborg/Beast Boy as part of the team.

I said that they weren't retconned to be OG Titans (which is the point of this whole conversation) until the New 52, which is correct.  I'm not talking about their recurring or guest star appearances on Titans (which there were few).  I'm talking about them being retconned (Don/Hank and then Dawn/Hank) to be part of the ORIGINAL (as in first) Titans.  That didn't happen until new 52.

Again - I think we need a separate comics thread.

Edited September 23, 2019 by phoenics

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

Again - I think we need a separate comics thread.

You mean like this one? 😈

I'll move some of these comics-specific posts over later for convenience.

[phoenics]

Thank you so much MarkHB!

[Sakura12]

I also don't understand why Hank and Dawn had an entire episode devoted to their origin, when we didn't get that with Kory, Gar or Donna. I'm more interested in their origins since they have powers. I want to know which origin they are going with for Donna since she has many. All Gar got was a quick flashback. 

Kory seems to be getting a season long origin this season. And I guess it made sense that she didn't get it last season because she didn't remember anything. 

[Jenniferbug]

Random thought of the day: can Aqualad please be in a coma? Because I like Drew Von Acker and I want him to be able to pop up in present day episodes once in a while. 

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

Random thought of the day: can Aqualad please be in a coma? Because I like Drew Von Acker and I want him to be able to pop up in present day episodes once in a while. 

I wouldn't mind that.  His brief scene with Donna in the Titans S2 trailer hooked me and made me wanna know if they were involved.  It also gave me a Flashpoint giggle.

Wonder Woman and Aquaman were at war in Flashpoint because they'd had an affair that went sour when Aquaman went back to his wife Mera.

[Sakura12]

From the trailers it did look like Donna and Aqualad were together. If he's the one that died then it makes more sense why she's the one pushing for Dick to tell the Teen Titans what happened. 

Quote

I like Drew Von Acker and I want him to be able to pop up in present day episodes once in a while.

Thank you I was wondering who that was. Jason from Pretty Little Liars. Lol

Edited September 25, 2019 by Sakura12

[MarkHB]

He also could just be back in Atlantis 

[phoenics]

19 hours ago, MarkHB said:

He also could just be back in Atlantis 

He could be, but my money is on him being dead.  The OG Titans broke up - kinda badly - for a reason and I think it's because someone dying.  I can't think of anything more distressing than that - and I also think it might come down to being Dick's fault.  Maybe he acted too much like Batman and that sent him on his "F*ck Batman" tour?  But it lasted 4 years - until he met Rachel, Kory and Gar?

From last season, it appears he hasn't spoken to D/H or Donna since the break up - so it must have been pretty bad.

It also explains why he was so angry at Bruce - he blamed Bruce for "turning him into" whoever he was when all the BS with the OG Titans went down and (imo) someone died.

I think it's Aqualad.

[Ottis]

I don’t understand the actions of the Titans, now that they are back together.

Why do they insist on having lives apart when as soon as they do, someone comes after them?

Why wasn’t the first question they asked about Deathstroke’s daughter “why is he trying to kill his own daughter?”

Why do they train blindfolded vs say, with no hearing or one leg?

Why isn’t everyone, including Kory, more interested in why an alien is on Earth and what she and her people want?

Why does Robin segment his team, creating resentment instead of being inclusive? There aren’t 50, it’s manageable.

Why do Korey and Wonder Girl have jobs, anyway?

What really is beginning to bother me is that the show is spending more time on CW-style relationships now and less on the darkness and unique perspectives of superheroes. That is why I bailed on Arrow, Super Girl and Flash. I don’t care who likes or dislikes who. 

[Sakura12]

Donna gave up being Wonder Girl, that's why she had a job. Which I was never clear what it was. Then I guess when Kory moved in with her, she just joined her.