S04.E01: The Dark Moon

[blueray]

Kind of off topic but what does LI mean?

[snakenax]

Yeah, that torture scene takes on a different sinister view when realizing that it's good guys torturing goods guys, with one group of good guys being teenagers.  

Why would we consider the Callaveras good guys when they've only acted as antagonists so far? The show has never really treated the hunters as good guys, Chris and Allison have been primarily used as antagonists during their hunter phases on the show. The Callaveras are unlikely to start being good guys anytime soon, unless the show radically changes the direction it depicts hunters. They're not the current main antagonists(which falls to Kate), but I doubt we'll see them ever being anything other than a obstacle or antagonist.

 

And in a general moral sense both groups of hunters we've seen so far aren't really 'the good guys' even taking out their hunting habits that make them antagonists to the main characters: The Argents are gun runners for organized crime and the Callaveras look to be some kind of criminal operation as well.

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

I found the AV Club review unnecessarily harsh, a D+?  This is "Teen Wolf" not "Breaking Bad" and this was in no way a D+ episode of Teen Wolf.

 

No offense but it's not really for you to say that it's not a D+ episode. You liked it and that's great. Other people may have gone in with different expectations. I probably would have given the episode a C, C-, but I can't begrudge anyone for not being entertained and giving it a lower grade. A show doesn't have to be Breaking Bad to require or expect certain things from it. I used to love and adore this show, but it's gone downhill fast. I don't want or need it to be BB, but I did need some character consistency and entertainment that doesn't constantly have me scratching my head and wondering what the writers were smoking.

 

I was dreading the return of this show. The gap between this season and the last was too damn short. I didn't hate the episode, but the highest compliment I could give it was that it didn't suck. It was just boring. I can't even count the number of times I looked at the clock in that first half hour. 

 

 

However, the dancing with Kira was groanworthy because it was like Jeff Davis screaming "LOOK AT THE LESYAY, PEOPLE! ISN'T THAT HOT? TWO GIRLS DANCING TOGETHER!"

 

God, I rolled my eyes so hard at that scene. That and Malia's introduction. Did they seriously break out the wind machine?

 

 

 

Second major gripe - they're going up against a set of experienced badass Hunters and they don't bring along Argent (or at least drop some dialogue that he's left town or something out of grief - anything to explain why he wasn't there).  Surely this should have been all hands on deck?

I'm extremely disappointed because, while I've never thought this was the best show on TV, I've always enjoyed it. But I thought that was tedious, boring and contrived.

 

WORD! I love Scott, but I kind of didn't feel too bad for him in the torture scene because he kind of deserved it. I wanted to slap him and the rest of them. They seriously went on this dangerous rescue mission, in foreign territory, with barely any information and no back-up whatsoever. They didn't stop to consider a family if hunter might employ the use of wolfsbane. They didn't even need to bring Chris. But at least give us an idea that they did some legwork and questioned people like Chris or Deaton instead of going in half-cocked.

 

Other than Scott, Stiles, and Lydia I didn't find much connection or chemistry between anyone in the new Scooby Gang. I think they needed to establish some of the relationships better instead of throwing them into this adventure.

 

I'm still mostly indifferent to Malia, but I'm kind of creeped out a little by her relationship with Stiles. It feels so far kind of like a watered down version of Xander/Anya from Buffy. Except on Buffy they didn't throw them together and immediately act as if they were soulmates. I have no idea why Malia is so dependent on Stiles already and basically listens to every word he says. 

 

I don't want to be mean, but I didn't buy Arden Cho in that torture scene at all. I think we were supposed to feel sorry for her or empathize and I kind of just wanted the Grandma hunter to slap her.

 

I not only missed Allison and Isaac, but I missed all of the regular supporting characters like Melissa, the Sheriff, Chris, the Coach, etc.

 

I wasn't surprised by the teen!Derek twist. I had read a spoiler that when they found Derek there would be something unexpected going on with him. When I saw Ian Nelson's name in the credits I knew teen!Derek would be making an appearance.

[ElleryAnne]

Kind of off topic but what does LI mean?

 

 

Love Interest.  Sorry about that.  I didn't realize it might be one that's not used much on this site.

[Jack Kerouac]

 

it was like Jeff Davis screaming "LOOK AT THE LESYAY, PEOPLE! ISN'T THAT HOT? TWO GIRLS DANCING TOGETHER!"

 

Well, since a significant part of the fandom watches so they can see the boys with their shirts off, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

As for Malia - we're ONE episode in and people are complaining 'she's the worst character EVAH!'

 

Relax. They have many episodes to go and we'll see where the character evolves.

 

As for this episode - it had some good points. Scott telling Stiles to take 10K off the table was cool. I've never liked Mexican grandma hunter so I didn't like her tonight as well. It's something about evil characters being needlessly arrogant that bugs. Kate was the same way. No matter how many times she was thwarted in S1, she was always back, always arrogant. You'd think she might learn some humility, but we'll see.

 

Overall good episode, but it's getting harder and harder to believe these kids are 17-18 year-olds.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Jack Kerouac

[blueray]

 

Overall good episode, but it's getting harder and harder to believe these kids are 17-18 year-olds

I agree, especially since they didn't say what they told their parents (which could have been the truth minus Lydia). But something like crossing an international border is a challenge. I don't know about Mexico but Canada you need to answer a few questions and it would be weird if a bunch of high school students came over by themselves.

 

 

love Interest.  Sorry about that.  I didn't realize it might be one that's not used much on this site.

 

Thanks that makes sense.

Edited June 25, 2014 by blueray

[Minneapple]

As for Malia - we're ONE episode in and people are complaining 'she's the worst character EVAH!'

 

Relax. They have many episodes to go and we'll see where the character evolves.

I actually kind of agree with this. Are there some irritating things about Malia? Definitely, but I hated the twins roughly eight billion times more (AND NOW THEY'RE GONE *does happy dance*). Keep your standards low for this show, I guess.

 

Except on Buffy they didn't throw them together and immediately act as if they were soulmates. I have no idea why Malia is so dependent on Stiles already and basically listens to every word he says.

 

I don't think they're acting like Malia and Stiles are soulmates. They were way worse about that kind of thing with Scott and Allison. They even broadly hinted at it with Stiles and Lydia, which is why I still have reservations if they ever decide to go back to that ship.

[galax-arena]

No offense but it's not really for you to say that it's not a D+ episode.

I think it's okay for people to say whether or not they think a particular grade is warranted or not. The other person was stating their opinion, just like the AV Club article writer was stating their opinion. 

 

I don't think they're acting like Malia and Stiles are soulmates.

I don't think they're acting like they're soulmates, but it feels like Malia has a pseudo-imprinting thing going on with Stiles, and it creeps me out. Bad memories of Twilight, I guess. Not that Malia/Stiles is anywhere near as bad, god no. 

Edited June 25, 2014 by galax-arena

[Richness]

I know a few months have passed time-wise since the previous season's finale (also confirmed on Wolf Watch), but I still don't understand how Malia is such a well adjusted person. Sure, they addressed that a few times like with the "wouldn't leave you, but would leave them" line, but then they had her dirty dancing with Kira. I know Kira is the shy, awkward girl, but it totally should have been Kira showing Malia how to get through that. If anything, finding out she's a kitsune and wielding that sword would have given Kira a major confidence boost.
 
I'm still confused by how awesome Scott is suppose to be. One minute he's getting tortured, the next he's breaking out of chains and growling so loud it scares away things that go bump in the night. However, he was practically hiding behind Braden in those tunnels, and he's suppose to be a special true Alpha? And why did he not consider Kira his girlfriend after all they've done and been through? After all, they've had awkward family dinners, kissed, and played "I'll show you my (inner canine), if you'll show me yours". Sounds like girlfriend/boyfriend to me. The only person he's closer to is Stiles.
 

Second major gripe - they're going up against a set of experienced badass Hunters and they don't bring along Argent (or at least drop some dialogue that he's left town or something out of grief - anything to explain why he wasn't there).  Surely this should have been all hands on deck?

As I recall, we saw Papa Argent and Isaac packing up and leaving in last season's finale, and probably aren't back yet.

Of course, Isaac won't be coming back, but I think Papa Argent is.

 

The Argents are gun runners for organized crime

Wait? What? When did this happen?

 

it would be weird if a bunch of high school students came over by themselves.

American teenagers go to Cancun during spring break from school all the time. Maybe not so much high school kids, but I don't find it that much of a stretch. Of course, I have no idea where we are in the show's timeline since we had Halloween episodes in 3B. It might sort of line-up for spring break, though summer break is more likely.

[blugirlami21]

I liked the episode.  I never understood why people think that Malia has the mind of an eight year old and that her being with Stiles or anyone else romantically would be gross.  She's a supernatural being that we don't know everything about, how can we know how she is supposed to act or what she is supposed to know until the show tells us?    We don't know what it was like for her all those years alone as a fox and we may never know.  So she can dance, we don't know how much time has passed since she has come back to civilization, maybe it's something she learned or maybe she is just good at dancing, that happens.  Kira seemed like a really bad dancer but that may be because she is shy something Malia definitely isn't.

 

I think being a fox for so long has given Malia a clear pack, kill or be killed mentality.  She has obviously for whatever reason identified Stiles as pack and I think that's normal because he has been the most consistent person in her life right now.  I think in time she will warm up to the others and consider them pack as well.  It's hard to introduce a new character on any show.  I didn't like Issac, Erica, Boyd, the twins, or Cora when they first appeared but I grew to like most of them by the time they left.  And I just realized they all left so, nothing is permanent on this show.

 

I would like to see Stiles be with someone who actually wants to be with him.  Lydia has had the option of taking him up on his numerous offers and she obviously doesn't want him so I'm happy to see him move on.

 

I didn't have a problem with the Callaveras torturing the teens because it's not the first time it has happened on this show and I doubt it would be the last time either.  I also don't exactly see the Callaveras as the good guys.  And while I love the adults on this show, I don't need them to be in every episode.  We had one episode in a different location and people are unhappy.  I thought it was nice to get a change of scenery for once. 

[Minneapple]

American teenagers also regularly go to Tijuana for drinking and partying. They did it on The O.C. Hell, so did I in college -- back when I went, all you needed was a US driver's license to get back into the States. It might have changed since 9/11, though.

[Yitzhak]

 

I never understood why people think that Malia has the mind of an eight year old

 

Yeah, I don't get this either. It's not like her brain would switch off if she was in the body of a coyote. She'd still have a human mind and her mind would be capable of maturing, she'd just be raised in an animal society instead. Animals aren't mindless and they have a culture and social rules of their own. Malia's more Mowgli than a feral child. She's not stunted. Is that realistic? Who cares. Why are people arguing over the realism of a human girl who spent eight years in the body of a coyote? It's a totally unreal fantastical premise to begin with.     

Edited June 25, 2014 by Yitzhak

[AudienceofOne]

never understood why people think that Malia has the mind of an eight year old

 

 

 

For the record, that wasn't my problem with that scene. My problem was that somebody who was out in a forest as a coyote for 7 years and then in a mental institution would not be anywhere near comfortable enough in an environment that involves being surrounded by dozens of people and loud music that she would be offering advice on sexy dancing to another person. Let alone know how to sexy dance herself. If anyone should have been overwhelmed by the enclosed space, lots of people and noise, it was the one who'd lived as a wild animal since they were a child.

[blugirlami21]

I'm not sure we can say that it's the same.  Do we know how much time passed from her returning to her father and being institutionalized?  Or how much time has passed since she got out of the institution til now?  I personally can't generalize something like that because it's not a normal situation.  I think the Mowgli comparison is a great one.  He lived with the animals but when he returned to civilization it was hard for him to adapt but he was not traumatized by the experience.  I just don't think personality wise that Malia is going to be curled up in a corner somewhere because it's too loud.

 

I also think that because she was an "animal" for so long that she may be more in tune both with her body and her sexuality than a normal person would be.  Idk why I'm thinking about this so hard.  For me teen wolf is just a really fun show, I can usually just accept things at face value because I really don't think it's mean to be analyzed toodeeply.  It's already so much deeper than it's source material that I can't complain too much. 

 

I like Malia, I think she has a lot of potential.  She's not perfect but none of the characters are.  I just hope people give her a chance to grow on them.

Edited June 25, 2014 by blugirlami21

[waving feather]

I like Malia too. I obviously will never get being in the body of a coyote for so long but from what I see of her NOW, I like it. I love her loyalty to Stiles. It makes sense because he's the first person she befriended ever since she came back. I don't mind Stiles teaching her things because that's who he is. He is quite bossy with everyone... Scott, Jackson, Lydia, Isaac and even Derek.

The scene of Malia dancing with Kira, I don't think they meant to show that Malia is well adapted into society but to show that Malia is more out-going, confident of her sexuality compared to Kira. We will see how it goes with her character, I guess.

As for the episode as a whole, I thought it was rather boring. Definitely the weaker opener compared to 3B. I hated the orange tint to the whole episode. It's ugly and made me sleepy. I can't wait till they are back in beacon hills. That torture scene was also terrible because of all the bad acting. Tyler Posey still hasn't learnt how to portray pain and Kira just looked awkward. Definitely no big drama scenes for these two! Holland Roden also irritated me with the in-a-trance face everytime she's accessing her banshee powers. The overall acting in this episode was bad. Can they also not do the Tru Alpha Scott and his cheesy roar? Why are his powers so inconsistent all the time? Sometimes he gets alpha strength and beats everyone in sight and sometimes he doesn't even fight like a werewolf.

[Jack Kerouac]

 

It's ugly and made me sleepy.

 

I don't know why, but this made me laugh a lot.

[blueray]

I think for Scott he lacks self confidence, which is why something he can be an alpha other times he struggles to win a fight. This was shown effecting him in last season (as was other emotions).

[galax-arena]

Malia's more Mowgli than a feral child. She's not stunted. 

Mowgli is an example of a feral child. And The Jungle Book is a fable where the animals are a lot more anthropomorphized. Unless Malia was running with fellow were-animals (which would be more humanizing than regular coyotes), then I don't think that's a particularly apt example at all, especially considering that he's fictional. Yes, Teen Wolf is fictional too, obviously, but since we're discussing how realistic/unrealistic Malia's behavior is, I don't think he can really be used as a defense. Kipling was hardly concerned with making Mowgli realistic. (I don't think Jeff Davis is either, unless it's convenient lol.)

 

Why are people arguing over the realism of a human girl who spent eight years in the body of a coyote? It's a totally unreal fantastical premise to begin with.    

I've never bought this argument. What I think is interesting about science fiction and fantasy is these SF/fantasy elements being grounded by realistic/believable human behavior. I like seeing how people would react to all the fantastical and weird shit going on in their lives, and it's nowhere near as compelling if the writer doesn't at least try to make it believable. IMO, the idea that we shouldn't think about how a girl trapped as a coyote would react to being returned to the human world because it would never happen in the first place is a cop-out.

 

I'm pretty sure there's a quote from some bigwig SF author addressing this idea, but I can't find it. And I also like Moff's Law. For the record, when Teen Wolf is staying away from the more genuinely upsetting unfortunate implications (e.g. the disparity in terms of who gets killed off, although that looks like it's getting better), I do enjoy Teen Wolf in all its entertaining hot mess glory. The Malia/Kira dancing scene was weird, but I thought it was amusing in how out of place it was. (And anybody else think that Kira seemed really into it? LMAO.) The show wouldn't be anywhere near as good (well, "good") if it actually tried to take shit seriously. But if other people don't feel the same way, hey, to each their own. 

Edited June 25, 2014 by galax-arena

[Gwen-Stacys]

I know a few months have passed time-wise since the previous season's finale (also confirmed on Wolf Watch), but I still don't understand how Malia is such a well adjusted person. Sure, they addressed that a few times like with the "wouldn't leave you, but would leave them" line, but then they had her dirty dancing with Kira.

 

Malia may just be a natural dancer and Kira isn't. Malia wasn't doing anything that the people around them weren't doing, she probably just picked it up faster than Kira. She [Malia] isn't self-conscious (confidence is actually a major factor in dance, even twerking), so it isn't out of the realm of possibility that she just started moving when she saw everyone else moving and copied them (toddlers do this...which is why you should watch what you do around them). There were people grinding on each other not too far from the girls and she was trying to blend in.

[snakenax]

Wait? What? When did this happen?

Season 3B, the people Chris was selling guns to when the Oni attacked in his flashback were Yakuza.

[Yitzhak]

 

Kipling was hardly concerned with making Mowgli realistic.

 

That was exactly my point. I don't think Teen Wolf is interested in writing a realistic feral child either. Malia doesn't have the mind of a child. She has the mind of a teenager who was raised in a different society; the animal kingdom. She has simply grown up in a different way with her own set of social rules and behaviors. TBH, I'd rather they play Malia for humor. We don't need a new brooding sour-wolf on this show. 

 

I'm hoping there will be more focus on the loss of Alison as S4 goes on. The little hints at her death didn't seem like enough in this episode. I also wonder if there's going to be any reflection at all on Stiles's possession. He seems a little more badass in S4 but no longer in any psychological turmoil. I did like the little moment of Stiles's telling Scott to go ahead on the motorbike and Scott saying "Not without you". Scott almost lost Alison and Stiles in 3B which (along with his mom) are the people he cares about the most so I like the implication that (despite his all powerful Alpha-ness) Scott needs Stiles to be his wingman more than ever now.  

Edited June 25, 2014 by Yitzhak

[Minneapple]

Malia may just be a natural dancer and Kira isn't.

I'd buy this. Kira is a total dork and awkward in social situations (not that that's bad, in fact I loved her awkward dorkiness last year).

[jhlipton]

As a straight man, I have to say that, in character or not, the dance was hot.  I also liked Malia being all "Let's run our boobs together!" and Kira being "Um... let's not."

[greenbean]

I did like the little moment of Stiles's telling Scott to go ahead on the motorbike and Scott saying "Not without you". Scott almost lost Alison and Stiles in 3B which (along with his mom) are the people he cares about the most so I like the implication that (despite his all powerful Alpha-ness) Scott needs Stiles to be his wingman more than ever now.

I loved that little moment between Scott and Stiles, it was really touching.

So far I like how they've subtly handled Allison's death. But I do hope we get more, as well as stuff about Stiles' possession. The scene with Stiles in Ms Morrell's counselling session, will always be one of the best on the show.

[justcris]

I think tonight's episode will close out the Mexico adventure so then we can go back to "real life" at Beacon Hills. I wasn't too impressed with the premiere, but I think it works better if I think of it as the first part of a two parter.