Regina, the Evil Queen: The Only Happy Ending Will Be Hers

[KingOfHearts]

I actually like Regina - she's one of my favorite characters. I like the snark, her style, and the better sides of her personality. What I don't like is all the annoying cheerleading she gets. It's not really Regina herself that bothers me, but it's Robin, Henry, and Snow, to name a few. They enable her bad behavior, and they don't give her good advice. In fact, they praise her for her sin. ("Bold and audacious")

 

But then you get times like Bleeding Through, where Regina has every reason to apologize and change, and she doesn't. It's not her, but the writers' agenda to keep her evil because they find it more entertaining. That's a fine agenda (it really is more entertaining), but to keep her evil and say she's redeemed just makes me shake my head.

 

With this Marian thing, it's understandable for Regina to be mad. But for Emma to just back into a corner is just crappy writing. With all the redemption Regina had S3, you'd think she would get over it quickly, but the writers are not going to do that. They love the drama her feelings create, and they use it every opportunity they get. It's always one step forward, two steps back. That's what's annoying.

 

Drama is supposed to serve a purpose. It's supposed to create circumstances that push characters into new levels. But that's never so with Regina - she stays the same way she came into it. Every time something happens with Regina, for fans and non-fans of her alike, it's "Oh boy, here we go again."

Edited July 22, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

So I don't think it's Woegina in and of herself that's the problem--it's that she's the writers' pet to such an extent that the writers' permaboner for the character can now be seen from Jupiter.

Yes.  I wouldn't care if the other characters were able to call her out on it.  This is part of what makes me angry--that the show seems to endorse this opinion.

[FavFable]

Yeah that was great!! I was hoping she would be the one to break the curse. I love that it proved that not only did she love Henry, he loved her.

 

How many times had Regina saved one of the Charming's in the last 2 seasons? I am thinking it's 5 times? Plus she saved their kid. I hope next season the writers move away from everyone having to step up and save the Charming's, make them more of the heroes and less of the victims. It's getting old.

 

I liked the scene that Belle and Regina shared in season 3, when Regina apologized to Belle. It would be fun to see them share more scenes next year. Although once Regina finds out Rumple killed her sister, she may just avoid Belle and Rumple altogether.

I think you are right about Rumple and Regina. I think she will distance herself from him when she finds out he killed her sister. Rumple and Regina have a very interesting relationship. It has been 3 years and I still don't completely understand it. He manipulated her, he used her and at times has tried to kill her. Then every once in a while he helps her. I love how complex their relationship is.

[FavFable]

Hey Rocky

 

Wondering who you think will be the most supportive of Regina next year, and who will be the least supportive...

[Rockybeach]

Hey Rocky

 

Wondering who you think will be the most supportive of Regina next year, and who will be the least supportive...

Interesting question. I think TInkerbell will be the most supportive. Least Supportive will be Emma.

[Mathius]

Interesting question. I think TInkerbell will be the most supportive. Least Supportive will be Emma.

You're wrong,

according to interviews.

Tinkerbell might not show up again anytime soon, and Jennifer Morrison says Emma is going to do her best to help Regina out and keep her on the right side of the line.

Edited July 27, 2014 by stacey
spoiler tags

[FavFable]

Interesting question. I think TInkerbell will be the most supportive. Least Supportive will be Emma.

I hope you are right. Emma really shouldn't be in this storyline at all.

Tinkerbell will be the only one who knows what Robin really meant to Regina. I hope she is there for her as a friend.

[Mari]

Tinkerbell will be the only one who knows what Robin really meant to Regina. I hope she is there for her as a friend.

But . . . Tinkerbelle might not even know they were dating.  I know she knows Robin was the pixie dust guy, but the last time we saw Tink and Regina talking about it, Regina was rejecting Robin and romance, and the Robin/Regina romance that happened afterwards was--at the most--a week.

[Camera One]

Maybe Regina called her up on the phone and chatted with her BFF about the hot date by the fireplace.  I really wonder what Blue, Tink and the rest of the fairies were doing.  They were certainly not even trying to help with the Zelena problem, though you could see Blue socializing with Aurora at the baby's christening.  

[Rumsy4]

I'm not a fan of Emma providing Regina support over the Marian thing. Graham must be rolling over in his grave. Tink definitely would have been the better option, but considering she is not part of the core group (and the actress is busy with other projects), that is unlikely to happen. 

[Camera One]

If not Emma, then the usual standby would be Snow, and I don't want to see that either.  Either way, somebody is going to be a prop/sounding board for Regina. None of the other female characters in Storybrooke would willingly talk to Regina.  

Edited July 28, 2014 by Camera One

[Mari]

True, Tinkerbelle would probably be the least revolting choice.

 

Snow should be kept far, far away from consoling Regina.  What, exactly, would Snow be able to say?  "I'm so sorry that your four day relationship ended because my daughter didn't let you kill your future boyfriend's wife, like you wanted to, while you were trying to kill me."? 

 

Maybe Rumple? 

[Camera One]

He would have experience in dating someone whose fiancé/significant other they killed/tried to kill.

[Rockybeach]

I hope you are right. Emma really shouldn't be in this storyline at all.

Tinkerbell will be the only one who knows what Robin really meant to Regina. I hope she is there for her as a friend.

It really depends on how the writers are going to use Tinkerbell. She played a pivotal role in the beginning. She should be involved now.  She is really the only one I can see supporting Regina. Henry should be included, but I don't think he will be. I bet the writers will isolate Regina during the first few episodes of the season.

 

As long as Emma and Hook are not involved in any way it should be ok. I am glad Rumple will not be involved considering he just murdered her sister.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Rockybeach

[Mari]

We've spent a lot of time and words looking at who is going to help Regina deal with her pain. 

 

I've wondered how she could/should make amends.  She's got a victim without the nearly-thirty-year brainwashing process right in front of her.

 

If she's truly grown and changed, how could she make amends to Marian for locking her in a dungeon, and planning to kill her?

[Camera One]

If she's truly grown and changed, how could she make amends to Marian for locking her in a dungeon, and planning to kill her?

 

Maybe they will show a flashback which shows Snow pleading with some strangers not to reveal her location, with no regard that they were risking their lives.  So ultimately, it would be Snow White's fault that Marion was thrown into jail in the first place.  Snow broke up Robin Hood, Roland and Marion's happy home, and she needs to pay.

[Mari]

So ultimately, it would be Snow White's fault that Marion was thrown into jail in the first place.  Snow broke up Robin Hood, Roland and Marion's happy home, and she needs to pay.

So Regina could make amends by--yet again--doing something terrible to Snow White, to punish Snow for putting Regina in that terrible position of not getting exactly what she wanted the minute she wanted it?

 

You know, if Regina actually has changed, helping Robin, Marian,  and the Merry Crew find a non-pinecone infested place to live would be a reasonable gesture.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Mari

[FavFable]

It really depends on how the writers are going to use Tinkerbell. She played a pivotal role in the beginning. She should be involved now.  She is really the only one I can see supporting Regina. Henry should be included, but I don't think he will be. I bet the writers will isolate Regina during the first few episodes of the season.

 

As long as Emma and Hook are not involved in any way it should be ok. I am glad Rumple will not be involved considering he just murdered her sister.

What do you think about Archie being involved? He helped her once before. And do you think Regina will be involved in the Frozen storyline?

Edited July 29, 2014 by FavFable

[FanaticalWriter]

It really depends on how the writers are going to use Tinkerbell. She played a pivotal role in the beginning. She should be involved now.

 

I agree. It's a shame Rose McIver is busy with other projects at the moment--not that I begrudge her other work! It's just that...given that Tinkerbell sort of set Regina on this course, re: Robin Hood, Tinkerbell's absence in the midst of this Marian/Robin/Regina drama is going to feel glaring. At least to me. Because even though she was mad at Regina for not meeting Robin before, and thus causing Tink to lose her wings, she still seemed invested in the idea of Regina embracing her potential happiness with Robin after they met again. Therefore, when it all hits the fan, as it must...you would think Tinkerbell would be around, logically. And that's why it's going to be odd when she isn't.

 

 

What do you think about Archie being involved? He helped her once before.

 

Hmm. I would like to see more of Archie again, and this could be a way to bring him in, but somehow I doubt that's the direction the writers will take. After all, why have a reasonable, calm third party get involved and try to talk sense into Regina, when they can put Emma and her loved ones directly into the line of fire and drum up more drama for poor wittle Regina that way? *sigh*

[Camera One]

It really depends on how the writers are going to use Tinkerbell. She played a pivotal role in the beginning. She should be involved now.

 

If they can't get Tinkerbelle, maybe Blue could tell Regina she reaps what she sows and it's too bad Tinkerbelle saved her when she fell off of that balcony.

[Rumsy4]

What's ironic about this situation is that it is a retread of the Cora/Dark Heart thing. Regina wanted to kill Cora herself, and thought she had succeeded. But she changed her mind when she felt that Cora could get her Henry. So, she got mad at Snow for killing her (Snow did everyone a favor, including Regina. I think that if Cora had succeeded in killing Rumple and becoming the Dark One, she would eventually have killed Henry, and framed someone. Cora didn't like sharing Regina's love any more than Regina wanted to share Henry's love with Emma).

 

Similarly, Regina ran away from Robin Hood the first time, but now changes her mind, and gets mad at Emma for bringing Marian back. It doesn't seem to matter to her that Emma saved Marian from being executed by her own self. Regina does not understand the meaning of the term personal responsibility. But she needn't worry. The writers are going to made Robin choose to be with Regina eventually. I only hope that she ends up recognizing that her own actions have consequences. ;-)

[Rockybeach]

What do you think about Archie being involved? He helped her once before. And do you think Regina will be involved in the Frozen storyline?

Archie would be a good choice, but I don't remember what his relationship with Regina is currently. Are they friendly? Do you remember?  I know he betrayed her trust when he talked about her sessions with Emma. I hope he is someone she could go to for help. He knows how much Henry wants Regina in his life and any backslide will limit her interactions with Henry.

 

I hope Regina is involved at some point. I would love to see her get a storyline where she isn't the dumping ground for the Charming's idiotic choices. Sounds like Rumple might be saddled more with them this season. I hope so. He can preach his hypocrisy to them. I actually hope Regina shares some scenes with the Snow Queen, if that is EM.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Rockybeach

[Mari]

I would love to see her get a storyline where she isn't the dumping ground for the Charming's idiotic choices.

What specific choices of the Charmings do you feel she's had to deal with when she shouldn't have--apart from Snow trying to help Regina marry Daniel?

[Crimson Belle]

I thought the entire show pretty much involved everybody else being the dumping ground for Regina's idiotic choices, from murdering Leo and her father and the countless others to Hansel and Gretel, to choosing to follow Rumple, to casting the curse, to saving her numerous times. The series has devolved to half the plots involving Regina having an enemy which causes everyone else to suffer

[FavFable]

Archie would be a good choice, but I don't remember what his relationship with Regina is currently. Are they friendly? Do you remember?  I know he betrayed her trust when he talked about her sessions with Emma. I hope he is someone she could go to for help. He knows how much Henry wants Regina in his life and any backslide will limit her interactions with Henry.

 

I hope Regina is involved at some point. I would love to see her get a storyline where she isn't the dumping ground for the Charming's idiotic choices. Sounds like Rumple might be saddled more with them this season. I hope so. He can preach his hypocrisy to them. I actually hope Regina shares some scenes with the Snow Queen, if that is EM.

Hey Rocky. Archie and Regina are on good terms. His support would make a big difference for her. Regina doesn't always thinks past her initial anger. Same thing happened with Cora in Season 2. Hurting any of the Charming's would have ended her interactions with Henry, but she didn't seem to understand that.  Henry is the best one to help her. She loves him and she might listen to him.

 

I think the entitlement all the Charming's have will continue throughout the series. It seems to be the point of OUAT. How the world owes them a 'happy ending', they are the perpetual victims. 

 

Another question for you. Do you see any of the secondary characters stepping up to be involved as the storyline progresses? My initial thoughts are maybe Ruby, Grumpy or even Sidney?

Edited July 30, 2014 by FavFable

[Mari]

I think the entitlement all the Charming's have will continue throughout the series. It seems to be the point of OUAT. How the world owes them a 'happy ending', they are the perpetual victims. 

 

My initial thoughts are maybe Ruby, Grumpy or even Sidney?

But . . . when someone:

• conspires to kill your father
• hunts you for years
• steals your country
• repeatedly tries to kill you
• curses you at least twice
• kills people that help you
• kills people that she thinks aren't neutral enough
• mind controls and rapes someone who tries to help you
• mind wipes your grandchild
• abuses your grandchild
• tries to kill everyone that your grandchild loves who isn't her
• tries to kill your daughter
• sends you to another land without your consent
• tries to kill you again
• frames you for murder
• forcibly separates you from your spouse
• ensures that you are not allowed to raise your own much-wanted child
• brainwashes you so that you think you're someone you're not
• etc . . .

Well, when someone does all that, you are the victim.

They aren't imagining it. 

They are the victims. 

Not being friendly enough to Regina isn't persecution, or arrogance--if anything, they should keep more distance.

It's not being "entitled" to want someone to stop trying to kill them, and behave like a reasonable human being.

 

As for Red and Leroy/Grumpy? 

They may have more story, but I have trouble seeing them being too involved--at least voluntarily--in Regina's life.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Mari

[Rockybeach]

Hey Rocky. Archie and Regina are on good terms. His support would make a big difference for her. Regina doesn't always thinks past her initial anger. Same thing happened with Cora in Season 2. Hurting any of the Charming's would have ended her interactions with Henry, but she didn't seem to understand that.  Henry is the best one to help her. She loves him and she might listen to him.

 

I think the entitlement all the Charming's have will continue throughout the series. It seems to be the point of OUAT. How the world owes them a 'happy ending', they are the perpetual victims. 

 

Another question for you. Do you see any of the secondary characters stepping up to be involved as the storyline progresses? My initial thoughts are maybe Ruby, Grumpy or even Sidney?

The actor that plays Archie is talented, he would be great in this storyline. Archie's role has always been the conscience. It would make sense that he helps Regina.

"Perpetual victims", that is great!! Love it. I think season 4 is going to be more difficult for them, they have their happy endings so the drama will take additional time to drum up. :)  

I think a lot of the main characters are going to be involved in the Frozen stuff, so I do agree that secondary characters will play a role in Robin and Regina's story. My first choice would be Ruby, but she will be busy either standing around Granny's or chasing after Snow. Such a waste of a character. (They could have made her Robin's sister.) I don't think Grumpy or Sidney will be involved, it will be Robin's men. And maybe that guy from OUAT Wonderland.

[stealinghome]

Honestly, given all of Regina/Rumpel's shit the Charmings have had to endure, they deserve the happiest motherfucking ending in the world. (But I'm pretty sure all they want is to not die and not be separated from their kids for another 28 years. Pretty reasonable.)

If we're talking massive entitlement, pretty sure Regina takes the gold.

[InsertWordHere]

 

My first choice would be Ruby, but she will be busy either standing around Granny's or chasing after Snow. Such a waste of a character. (They could have made her Robin's sister.)

Well, Red helped Hook and Charming attempt to rescue Emma while Emma rescued herself and Marian, so I'm sure Regina will also hold Ruby accountable for the horrible deed of saving an innocent woman's life. Perhaps Ruby will take herself for a walk over to Regina's and remind Regina how horrible it was for her to watch her best friend be seemingly burned at the stake. To later find her best friend cold and lifeless to the point where she was thought dead until Red checked to see if she was breathing. All because Regina felt entitled to punish Snow for taking away her happy ending.

 

Speaking of Ruby and familial connections, Granny was in the village when Regina captured Marian. If Regina had known that Granny had actually helped Snow White instead of just withholding her location like Marian was accused of doing, Granny would have been in that cell next to Emma. In that situation, assuming for comparison purposes that Granny had never made it to Storybrooke and was thought dead, I wonder how many would be saying that Emma shouldn't have saved Granny?

[Camera One]

Red gave the side-eye when Snow said she was going to comfort Regina back in the Lost Year Enchanted Forest flashbacks, so she would not become Regina's friend any time soon.  Granny, Red, Grumpy and Blue have never joined the Regina love train, and I hope they never do.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Camera One

[Mari]

Granny, Red, Grumpy and Blue have never joined the Regina love train, and I hope they never do.

Young Regina didn't seem overly concerned with social standing--she was in love with a groom, far below her own social standing.  But Evil Queen Regina and Mayor Mills versions both seem pretty conscious of people she thinks of as not her equal.

 

In their Storybooke incarnations, Regina made Red a diner waitress--which is respectable, but not usually considered high "status".  Granny owns the diner and a small bed/breakfast, but it's pretty clear from the first season that it was struggling financially, and the impression I had was that paying Gold his rent was usually difficult, so they were not well-off or even comfortable financially.  Leroy obviously had a blue collar job, and before the curse was broken apparently regularly spent time drying out in the town jail.  Since Regina seems to have paid particular attention to people who were Snow and David's allies and friends, this likely would be on purpose.

 

Often her snarky comments center on not just people's personalities, or quirks, but on things like their living conditions, status, or financial stability--the pinecone comment to the Merry Men, for example. 

 

I know that Blue/Red/Granny/Leroy haven't joined the Regina's Awesome Club, but have we seen Regina treat any of them with respect?  Most of the interaction I can remember is disparaging, or Regina ignoring them, but I do not have season 2, and didn't make particular note of this when I watched the first time.

 

It seems like the darker Regina became, the more like Cora she became in her attitudes--Daniel's Regina doesn't seem like she'd correct people if they didn't use her title.  Evil Queen/Mayor Mills does.  It's possible that part of her attraction to Daniel was that he was not of her social class, and she knew her mother would not approve; it was one more way of rebelling against Cora.  As she grew older, and less rebellious, the social class attitude could've started reasserting itself in her behavior.

 

That would be one more reason that Granny, Leroy, and Red would most likely not be friends or friendly with Regina. 

[FavFable]

 

I think a lot of the main characters are going to be involved in the Frozen stuff, so I do agree that secondary characters will play a role in Robin and Regina's story. My first choice would be Ruby, but she will be busy either standing around Granny's or chasing after Snow. Such a waste of a character. (They could have made her Robin's sister.) I don't think Grumpy or Sidney will be involved, it will be Robin's men. And maybe that guy from OUAT Wonderland.

Hey Rocky,

 

Wow, Robin's men. I didn't even consider them, but they could be involved.  They are like family to both Robin and Roland, so it would make sense that they would be in the storyline. Of all the characters, Archie is probably the most likely to step up. As long as the Charming's involvement is limited I think it will be a good storyline.  I have to ask. Who do you think Robin is going to choose?

Also wanted to ask. Did you have a favorite Regina scene in season 2?

[Rockybeach]

I agree with you. Honestly the Charming's should have nothing to do with Regina and Robin's story. Maybe the writers will realize it. I hope Robin chooses Regina, but I also want Regina to choose Robin, if that makes sense(?).

 

My favorite Season 2 Regina Scene?

There are 2 that come to mind. The scene in Second Star to the Right when Regina is being tortured. It annoys me when people whine that Regina has never paid for any of her crimes. They obviously have never seen that scene.

My other favorite is in We are Both when Regina apologizes to Henry and lets him go. It was such a moving scene. I thought it showed how Regina had grown as a parent and a person.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Rockybeach

[Mari]

My favorite Season 2 Regina Scene?

There are 2 that come to mind. The scene in Second Star to the Right when Regina is being tortured. It annoys me when people whine that Regina has never paid for any of her crimes. They obviously have never seen that scene.

I've seen that scene.  I also saw that she wasn't the only one suffering--so was Snow.  What crimes was she paying for?

 

The thing is, there's a difference between suffering because you are being victimized, which is what was happening in that scene, and paying for your crimes.

 

Paying for your crimes means a couple of different things:

a)  Usually a punishment of some sort, meted out according to the severity of the crime(s), determined by the society to which you belong.

b)  Amends of some sort to those you've victimized.

 

What punishment has she accepted from the society she belongs to? 

What amends has Regina made? 

 

And, in my opinion, not following through on killing everybody isn't making amends.  Agreeing to life with them in the Castle that belonged to their family doesn't count.  Stopping your repeatedly victimizing them doesn't count.  And things done to stop Zelena?  I don't think they count, really, either--Zelena's big goal was to get rid of Regina.  Helping them was in her best interest.

 

Being in pain for a fraction of the time she was running around killing and torturing people isn't "paying for her crimes." 

[FavFable]

I agree with you. Honestly the Charming's should have nothing to do with Regina and Robin's story. Maybe the writers will realize it. I hope Robin chooses Regina, but I also want Regina to choose Robin, if that makes sense(?).

 

My favorite Season 2 Regina Scene?

There are 2 that come to mind. The scene in Second Star to the Right when Regina is being tortured. It annoys me when people whine that Regina has never paid for any of her crimes. They obviously have never seen that scene.

My other favorite is in We are Both when Regina apologizes to Henry and lets him go. It was such a moving scene. I thought it showed how Regina had grown as a parent and a person.

It was a brutal scene, but I am surprised it is one of your favorites. Why do you like it so much?

 

That scene where Regina apologized to Henry was really good. I think it was the first time Regina stops thinking of herself and starts thinking of someone else. It was good to see.

 

I have a few favorites, but the one that stands out was in Broken. That scene at the end when Henry tells her that he doesn't want to see her anymore. Her response was so interesting to me. She reacted not as a parent, but just as a person. She was upset and confused. It was an interesting power shift between Henry and Regina.  This isn't a season 2 moment, but another thing that I love is that Regina is so cool that even people that hate her can't stop talking about her. She inspires conversation, which I find awesome. I never see a ton of conversation about Charming or Snow, because they are perfect. What is there to discuss? They are never wrong and never bad. Just....boring.

Edited August 1, 2014 by FavFable

[KingOfHearts]

Technically Regina was being punished by Greg for killing his dad in the torture scene.

[Mari]

Technically Regina was being punished by Greg for killing his dad in the torture scene.

Darn you and your accuracy, KingOfHearts!  ;)

 

Yes, that's true.

I still think my wider point stands, though.  One horrible experience that Snow had to experience doesn't exactly mean she's "paid" for what she's done.

 

Personally, I don't think people can pay for what they've done.  All you can really do is stop what you're doing, ask forgiveness (and recognize that you may not get it from the person/people you've damaged), and start doing what you can to make amends and mitigate what future damage you can.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Mari

[KingOfHearts]

Personally, I don't think people can pay for what they've done. All you can really do is stop what you're doing, ask forgiveness (and recognize that you may not get it from the person/people you've damaged), and starting to do what you can to make amends and mitigate what future damage you can.

You get all my cookies, Mari.

Punishing Regina isn't going to stop her. In fact, according to the show, it makes her a martyr. What turns Regina is seeing that her actions hurt those she loves. We saw this in We Are Both, when she realized she was hurting Henry just like her mother did with her. But these moments of sympathy are few and far between, unfortunately.

Why is it so hard for the writers to write, "I'm sorry, Snow"? What was the point of the snow/Regina scenes in Bleeding Through, anyway? I bet they're stalling out on true redemption and apologies so they can milk the Evil Queen persona for all it's worth.

I don't think Regina truly wants to redeem herself. What she wants is the glamour and adoration that comes from being on the side of the angels. She also wants Henry and his approval, which she already tried and failed to get with darkness. I don't see any selflessness in her redemption arc. A few times she did heroic acts, but I don't see a change of heart in her attitude.

Redemption is alluring to her, but she wants to stay on the fence so she can get the best of both worlds. Rumple was right when he reprimanded her about thinking she could just sample everything.

Edited August 1, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

We were discussing magic in the other thread, and FabulousTater posted a TV Guide interview from back before 2B.  So I read it for old time sake and of course, there was some infuriating line in there:

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Once-Upon-Time-Spoilers-Kitsis-Horowitz-1058535.aspx

 

From the interview

 

 

Interviewer: That begs the question of whether Regina could ever find happiness. Can she ultimately survive the story of Once Upon a Time?

Kitsis: That is the question of the series. That is Regina's character question. Will she find her happy ending? Unfortunately, she hasn't. Of all the characters, it's funny, she may have inflicted the most harm, and yet she has had the most harm inflicted to her.

 

I guess this was before "The Evil Queen" aired, but at that point, they probably would have already written it or at least planned it out.  

Edited August 1, 2014 by Camera One

[Souris]

Of all the characters, it's funny, she may have inflicted the most harm, and yet she has had the most harm inflicted to her.

 

THE HELL????????

 

That is repulsive.

[Rumsy4]

Doesn't make a lick of sense, and is, as Souris says, repulsive. However, it once again confirms that Regina's Happy Ending is the "question of the series" according to A & E.

[KingOfHearts]

Yes she's had a lot of harm inflicted on her... from her own doing! It's not like she was walking along and someone threw a rock at her just to be mean.

Edited August 1, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Dani-Ellie]

This pisses me off, because Regina is the source of her own unhappiness. Yes, watching Daniel murdered in front of her was traumatic, I'm not denying that. However, she's the one holding onto that. She's the one refusing to move past it. She's the one keeping herself trapped in the most awful moment of her entire life, and not only that, but like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum, she's taking her pain and her anger out on everyone else.

 

Even if you buy into her beef with Snow, what the hell else did everyone else in the Enchanted Forest have to do with it? Because they supported Snow and not her? Well, boo-hoo, Regina. Not everyone is going to like you, and news flash, when you kill people and torture people and persecute and usurp a beloved princess and make everyone else's lives miserable out of anger and vengeance, they're not going to like you. Not only that, but you don't get to dictate when or even if they have to forgive you.

 

And I don't even buy that Regina's the most victimized person on this show. From my perspective, that title goes to Emma. An innocent newborn baby who had nothing to do with anything was torn from her parents and grew up in this world completely alone. Even Regina had a father who loved her, no matter how inefficient he may have been against or cowtowed he may have been by Cora (and, let's not forget, the only reason Regina's father isn't with her now is because she killed him). Even Regina didn't have the man she thought loved her dump her in jail and never contact her again. And did Emma turn around and punish everyone else for her hardships? No, she internalized it. And if Regina had dealt with Daniel's death by crying and eating the Enchanted Forest equivalent of a pint of Haagen-Dasz, that would have been different. But she didn't. She decided to murder and torture and curse an entire population instead, and I'm sorry, but that's on her.

[kili]

Okay, I'm tempted to make a list of harm done vs harm done to for Regina

 

Harm Done

Shoved Mom into Wonderland (deserved)

Killed random woman Rumple was training

Arranged to have Leopold killed

Ordered the killing of Snow

Raped the Huntsman for 30 years

Killed multiple soldiers for doing nothing more than failing her

Hunted Snow for years

Burnt Snow at the stake or Killed Marian for helping Snow (depending on the timeline)

Terrorized villages

Ordered the slaughtering of an entire village

Separated multiple children from their parents and forced them to go to a witch's house where they were subsequently eaten

Even after Hansel and Gretel got her what she wanted, kept them separated from their parents

Made Snow eat a poisoned apple

Imprisoned her best friend

Left Jefferson in Wonderland (leaving Grace without any parent)

Tortured Jefferson for 28 years allowing him to see his daughter and do nothing about it

Imprisoned Bell for 28+ years

Killed her horse

Turned some dwarf to stone for laughing at her

Killed her father

Cursed an entire realm and made them miserable for 28 years

Killed Kurt Flynn

Gaslit her son (tried to convince others he was crazy)

Conspired to kill Kathryn (angry when she turned up still alive)

Killed Huntsman

Tried to kill Emma but almost killed Henry instead

Worked with her mother to try to kill all the Charmings

Decided to destroy the town

Pushed Hook in a hole to distract Malificient fully expecting him to die

Planned on destroying the town which allowed others to almost destroy the town

Turned a mermaid to wood

 

Harm done to her

Crappy mother (Cora)

Boyfriend killed (Cora)

Son did not appreciate being gaslit and watching people being tortured (can't really blame him)

Emma did not appreciate her son being gaslit and nearly killed (can't really blame her)

People did not eat her lasagne (given her penchant for poisoning and the villagers long history with her, can't really blame them)

Rumple tried to kill her with a wraith (but the people who she tried to kill and tortured saved her)

Tortured by child (now adult) she left an orphan as he watched his father being dragged away (to be killed)

Son kidnapped by Peter Pan

Had to give up son because of Peter Pan (and her own curse casting years earlier)

Jealous sibling wanted her dead

Wife of boyfriend saved from being executed by her (cry me a river)

 

I'm not sure I'm watching the same show as Adam and Eddie.

 

ETA: Fixed the error KingOfHearts noticed (thanks!)

Edited August 1, 2014 by kili

[KingOfHearts]

The genie put himself in the mirror, not Regina. Regina supposedly arranged safe passage for him out of the kingdom. Sorry, being nitpicky here!

[Crimson Belle]

Wrongfully imprisoned Mary Margaret for Kathryn's death

Coerced the genie into confessing to her crimes regarding Mary Margaret/Kathryn

[Serena]

Rape by proxy (all the people she arranged to be in a relationship in Storybrooke like a deranged Sims player, who would have never consented to it otherwise. Snow and Whale, David and Abigail, any other "couples" she put together in SB that weren't together in the EF)

[legaleagle53]

Rape by proxy (all the people she arranged to be in a relationship in Storybrooke like a deranged Sims player, who would have never consented to it otherwise. Snow and Whale, David and Abigail, any other "couples" she put together in SB that weren't together in the EF)

 

Without wanting to start a war over semantics (this subject has been debated to death both here and elsewhere, believe me), I think that's really stretching the definition of "rape" far beyond what the word actually means and is intended to mean.  It rather cheapens the proper use of the word to describe actual sexual assault, in my opinion, to apply it to people who don't even know that they're not supposed to be together, much less having sex.  I mean, if you apply that logic, Leopold raped Regina every time they had sex together (and let's not pretend it didn't happen; that marriage had to have been consummated at some point!), even though she deliberately went through with the wedding knowing full well that her heart would never be in it.  Similarly, David and Abigail would have been guilty of mutual rape (with Midas and George as accessories) if they had gone through with their arranged marriage in the Enchanted Forest.

[Rumsy4]

Leopold and Regina having consensual sex, or Abigail and David getting into an arranged marriage and having physical relations, is different from being magically roofied into having sex with someone you wouldn't otherwise.

While I would not call David and Kathryn's Storybrooke relationship as mutual rape, it is still non-con sex forced on them, because they would never have done something like that in their right minds. Regina is guilty of that, and I think the best way to define what she did to the citizens of Storybrooke is mind-rape/ brainwashing.

[stealinghome]

And I don't even buy that Regina's the most victimized person on this show. From my perspective, that title goes to Emma.

Emma and Snow have both been far more victimized than Regina ever has been. Oh, and the Huntsman, too, and it's not even close. And I'm going to say that Charming has probably been equally victimized as Regina (the dude's only crime was falling in love with Snow...but it started later in his life).