Regina, the Evil Queen: The Only Happy Ending Will Be Hers

[Mari]

I do agree that Regina is trying, but I take exception to "continually" doing the right thing (because attempting to kill your son's entire family is the right thing?) and vehemently disagree that out of everyone on the show, Regina's the one who's gotten the short end of the stick.

But, Dani-Ellie, you mean re-enslaving Sidney wasn't a good thing?  Regina was wrong and did a bad thing?  That's a thing that happens?

 

But, I'm sure she was super-regretful about it and it caused her great pain?  Maybe it tore at her soul and victimized her even more?

[KingOfHearts]

I think Regina is starting to reach levels of decent human being. She has some sort of conscience now that's bringing her to do what's right in the face dire consequences. (Giving Emma/Henry fake memories, sending Robin with Marian, etc.) That's another step in her redemption, and that's good, but regarding her happy ending I still think she's a bit self-centered.

For her to plan to coerce someone to give her a happy ending is messed up, to be honest. For her to blame an inanimate object for the consequences she paid is not redemptive behavior. She wouldn't have this Marian problem if she had met Robin when she was supposed to or not killed Marian originally. What she plans on doing just isn't healthy and she's not taking other people into account in it.

She's discounting Henry as her happiness when just a few months ago all she wanted was his undivided attention, which she has now. I don't think she's realizing that what she thinks is her happy ending could be at the expense of someone else, either.

Edited March 28, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Zuleikha]

I have a few questions for the handful of Regina stans on here.  Just wondering how you puzzled out these things in your mind.  What do you think about her breaking a curse/TLKing w/o a heart?  How is it ok for her to somehow use light magic (Emma's magic) with no heart?!  *the mind, it boggles*  How do you feel when she berates her victims, like the example above w/Emma from 4x05?  Do you think Regina's made efforts to make amends for her past actions?  How so?  How do you think it shows redemption/change of heart that she still believes she just needs to force an author to rewrite her story so she can get a happy ending, when someone like Killian has already found his happy ending on his own?

 

Again, no interest in a debate, but I can give a personal answer for how I react to things. It seems like these questions are a mixture of things that are writing issues and character issues. Regina being able to TLK and use light magic with no heart is a writing/world-building issue to me. I have no problem with Regina being able to do these things, but I think the writers should have put in a line about being Cora, the eventual Queen of Hearts, having a special affinity for heart-related magic that Regina inherited. (I also think that should apply to Regina protecting her heart from controlling her and being able to put magic on Henry's heart so no one could take it; if those are things that any magic user can just do to anyone, then why on earth didn't she magic her heart so no one could take it rather than entrust it to magic-less Robin and his Merry Men?) 

 

Light magic isn't Emma's magic. All magic is light magic or dark magic. Emma is the only human magic user we've seen explicitly identified as using light magic (prior to Regina using it at the end), but we have been told that the fairies use light magic. I would expect that if Ingrid and Elsa's ice magic had been classified, it would have been classified as light magic (although the Shattered Sight spell would presumably be dark magic) We've seen that Rumple taught Emma very differently from how he taught Cora and Regina, so I actually love confirmation that Regina could have learned light magic instead. It emphasizes what an a-hole Rumple was to her and what a malevolent force in her life he was. I'm only bummed that the show hasn't followed-up on this. I wish there had been room in the Frozen arc for Regina, Emma, and Elsa to all work on magic together and establish some worldbuilding about light/dark magic. 

 

I've talked a lot about what I think about Regina's redemption arc, so I'm not going to restate all that. The only part I'll address is the notion that Regina "needs to force an author to rewrite." Regina used the verb "make" once and then corrected herself to "ask." She's still very much internalizing a less evil way of framing the world, but every time she's tripped up in s4, she's caught herself and corrected herself. She thought about killing Marian, but she NEVER actually attempted to do so because she realized it was wrong. Instead, she saved Marian and then flat-out rejected the notion that killing Marian would be a way to solve her problem when Gold brought it up. She crossed the line with Pinocchio and then went to Marco to apologize because she understood that she'd crossed the line. So I don't think it's reasonable or fair to frame Regina's quest as being about forcing the Author to do anything rather than questing for an opportunity to plead her case to the Author. 

[Mathius]

Found this: http://freifraufischer.tumblr.com/post/114807507546/why-does-this-fandom-seem-to-be-so-divided-about

Thoughts?

[Shanna Marie]

Holy projection, Batman!

 

So if you hate Regina, it's either because her redemption makes Rumple's redemption look worse, because you see her as an obstacle to Captain Swan, or because you hate women and want to see female villains punished?

 

Hating Mary Sue writing doesn't seem to be an option there.

[Curio]

It's hard for me to take an argument seriously when they start their first sentence with a complete generalization/opinion without any factual evidence or support to back it up.

"I should first of all say that Regina is the most popular single character in both the fandom and with the general audience. Anyone who doubts the latter really needs to look at the amount of press they send Lana out to do for the show."

That simply cannot be proven definitively. Yes, Lana has been doing a lot of press for the 4B arc, but that's because Regina's character is being focused on this half. Conversely, Jennifer did a lot more press during 4A because Emma was more of the show's focus during the Frozen arc. Using that logic, is Emma the most popular character during the Fall and Regina the most popular during the Spring?

 

I'm surprised someone who claims to be an academic and teaches at a university wrote that.

 

Hating Mary Sue writing doesn't seem to be an option there.

Nor is "I dislike characters who have absolutely no self-awareness about their actions and are continually given a pass by the writers" an option. I would like Regina much more if Emma got to call her out on killing Graham, or if Snow and David got to call her out on casting the curse that forced them to give up their child, or if Hook got to call her out about pushing him to his death when she got to call him out about Owen torturing her, or if Snow got to point out that she just lost her daughter again when Regina was about to bury her heart after losing Henry, or if Emma got to call her out again about Graham when Regina yelled at Emma for ruining her life with the whole Robin/Marian situation. By not bringing these subjects up, the writers are essentially erasing their own past and pretending like it never happened.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Curio

[Mari]

And I'm not sure Regina's the most popular character with the most quiet and reasonable fans, either. (Not saying some of them aren't--Zuleikha seems to be lovely, even if we disagree on a great deal)

Regina might be the most controversial, and therefore get a lot of press, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's the most popular. She might be. It just seemed like a me the tumblr author was assuming a lot.

ETA

Yes to pretty much everything Curio wrote.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Mari

[Dani-Ellie]

The original poster is a notorious Evil Regal. (Like, one of the ones who totally argue headcanon as if it were actual canon and then doesn't understand why everyone doesn't see it that way ... like, there is no televised evidence for your argument, that's why.) I would take her opinions with a grain of salt.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[Shanna Marie]

Nor is "I dislike characters who have absolutely no self-awareness about their actions and are continually given a pass by the writers" an option.

I folded that into "Mary Sue writing" since she's given a free pass by the writers and by the characters (and by herself). She's a Teflon character that nothing sticks to, and a black hole that warps the universe around her.

[Serena]

The original poster is a notorious Evil Regal. (Like, one of the ones who totally argue headcanon as if it were actual canon and then doesn't understand why everyone doesn't see it that way ... like, there is no televised evidence for your argument, that's why.) I would take her opinions with a grain of salt.

Oh, you mean headcanons like "Regina was totally raped daily by Leopold, and if you don't admit this totally canon fact you're a rape apologist"? Those kind of headcanons?

[Mari]

Oh, you mean headcanons like "Regina was totally raped daily by Leopold, and if you don't admit this totally canon fact you're a rape apologist"? Those kind of headcanons?

Is that seriously a thing? Really? Because I get that Leopold was not the greatest husband to Regina, but how in the wide, wide world does that fit anything we saw onscreen from Regina or Leopold?

[Serena]

Oh, it's a thing. It's a really, really widespread thing, as far back as "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" if not earlier. 

[Mari]

Oh, it's a thing. It's a really, really widespread thing, as far back as "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" if not earlier.

But one of the things Regina repeatedly complained about--once to Tink and to Sidney as well--was how inattentive Leopold was. He was wrapped up in Snow and the kingdom, and was gone for huge amounts of time while Regina stayed at the castle, having lessons with Rumple, and girly excursions with Tinkerbell and Maleficent.

I mean, neglectful. Probably. But what onscreen provides any clues for rapist or abuser? Particularly since the Poisonous Tree episode was fairly upfront about Regina manipulating Sidney into things were worse than they were? And when we see every weepy, angsty twinge Regina has? This one, huge thing was skipped and not even obviously hinted at in-show?

And the essay above thinks the Regina anti-fans are reality displaced?

Edited April 6, 2015 by Mari

[Dani-Ellie]

Oh, you mean headcanons like "Regina was totally raped daily by Leopold, and if you don't admit this totally canon fact you're a rape apologist"? Those kind of headcanons?

 

Those exact kind of headcanons, yes.

 

 

 

Is that seriously a thing? Really? Because I get that Leopold was not the greatest husband to Regina, but how in the wide, wide world does that fit anything we saw onscreen from Regina or Leopold?

 

It is seriously a thing and it doesn't fit into anything we've seen onscreen. Not at all. Don't even get me started on it.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[Zuleikha]

Is that seriously a thing? Really? Because I get that Leopold was not the greatest husband to Regina, but how in the wide, wide world does that fit anything we saw onscreen from Regina or Leopold?

 

Minus the "daily" part, I can see how people could get there. It is a squicky--and I'm sure quite unintended by the writers--implication of the Regina/Leopold marriage. We saw that Leopold wasn't willing to let Regina have an affair on the side, even though he acknowledged how unhappy she was and even though she was concealing it well enough that he had no idea who it was with (partially because it wasn't actually happening). They were married for... 6 years? Longer? I can't remember exactly how old Snow is established at the time of Leopold's murder, but definitely a good chunk of time. It seems unlikely that Leopold accepted having the marriage unconsummated that entire time, and it is equally unlikely that the Regina we saw ever gave meaningful consent or that Leopold was in denial of her lack of interest. 

 

But there's no way they would have had daily (or nightly?) forced relations. We know they had separate bedrooms by the time of "The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" and spent significant time physically separated. 

 

I don't want to get into the Tumblr argument because there's just nowhere good it can go. :)

[Camera One]

I don't know about that.  Leopold hardly gave a second thought to setting the Genie free.  He wasn't an ordinary guy.  He was unbelievably gullible on all levels and trying to please.  I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that he just left Regina alone.  Especially if he knew that she was Cora's daughter and maybe he married her a little out of guilt, but mostly to give Snow a mother.  Leopold seemed obsessed with being a good ruler, and was even touring the kingdom when Eva was deathly ill.  He did get very angry in "Tree of the Poisonous Fruit" but he could have been fine with leaving Regina be, but he saw her cheating on him as a betrayal for him letting her do anything she wanted.

 

I do agree it's squicky, like a lot of things on this show especially when it becomes incestuous.

[Serena]

Why wouldn't Leopold have accepted having the marriage unconsumated? He was clearly still mourning his wife. He married Regina because he wanted a nursemaid for Snow. If they consumated, Regina may get pregnant with a son who would take precedence in the succession over his first wife's child, which I doubt he wanted. 

I would also argue that we saw Leopold wanting to know who Regina was having an alleged affair with is totally reasonable. He's a King. If his Queen is having an affair with a pretender to the throne, that is a BIG problem. And if she's having an affair with a random dude, what if she gets pregnant? Then he'd have to either acknowledge the child as his and have it added to the succession, or completely denounce Regina as adulterous, risk being seen as weak/a cuckold, and probably be politically forced to do something horrid to Regina. Cheating on the King is treason. 

[Dani-Ellie]

It seems unlikely that Leopold accepted having the marriage unconsummated that entire time, and it is equally unlikely that the Regina we saw ever gave meaningful consent or that Leopold was in denial of her lack of interest.

 

But that's where the headcanon comes in. :) That could all very well be true, but it could be just as true that they did in fact leave the marriage unconsummated. We have no indication on camera one way or the other.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[Mari]

Minus the "daily" part, I can see how people could get there. It is a squicky--and I'm sure quite unintended by the writers--implication of the Regina/Leopold marriage. We saw that Leopold wasn't willing to let Regina have an affair on the side, even though he acknowledged how unhappy she was and even though she was concealing it well enough that he had no idea who it was with (partially because it wasn't actually happening). They were married for... 6 years? Longer? I can't remember exactly how old Snow is established at the time of Leopold's murder, but definitely a good chunk of time. It seems unlikely that Leopold accepted having the marriage unconsummated that entire time, and it is equally unlikely that the Regina we saw ever gave meaningful consent or that Leopold was in denial of her lack of interest. 

 

But there's no way they would have had daily (or nightly?) forced relations. We know they had separate bedrooms by the time of "The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" and spent significant time physically separated. 

The separate bedrooms thing was actually pretty common in royalty for a long, long time.  One spouse would just visit the other when it was time for relations.  That, in itself, doesn't mean Leopold and Regina didn't have sex during those periods.

 

As for Leopold not allowing Regina to have an affair?  That's just good governance.  Leopold's country was a hereditary monarchy.  Children born to his marriage are eligible to inherit the throne.  If there's a divorce or annulment, that's one thing--but a child born of an affair, who is legally your child but physically not?  It undermines their whole system of government, and is technically treason.  (Which a few queens in our world were convicted of and then executed for, sometimes for actual affairs, and sometimes because there was a replacement waiting in the wings.)

 

And, yes, I can see how there would be marriages with Regina and Leopold's start that included occasional, or regular rape, but there just doesn't seem to be the evidence here to support it.

 

For one thing, there's no evidence at all that Leopold had that kind of selfishness and cruelty in him.  He might have been gullible and blind, and made very naïve decisions, but he was almost always represented as kind and thoughtful--even with Cora's betrayal, he was as kind as was at all reasonable in the circumstances. 

 

We see most of what Regina thinks are wrongs done to her--whether a person is a fan of hers or not, it's impossible to ignore that if something bad happens to Regina, the show makes sure we know.  IF Regina had been raped, we should know by now. 

 

Considering how and why Regina and Leopold got married--see Serena and Camera One's posts just above?  It wouldn't surprise me at all if the relationship was unconsummated--but even if it wasn't, sex between Regina and Leopold would not necessarily be rape.

 

Regina went into the marriage willingly.  Her motive wasn't "I want a good marriage," but she did intentionally marry him.  It would make sense if she did have sex with him early in the relationship, simply because it would put his guard down and possibly make him more easy to manipulate. 

 

That's not rape. That's using sex as a tool.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Mari

[Curio]

They were married for... 6 years? Longer? I can't remember exactly how old Snow is established at the time of Leopold's murder, but definitely a good chunk of time. It seems unlikely that Leopold accepted having the marriage unconsummated that entire time, and it is equally unlikely that the Regina we saw ever gave meaningful consent or that Leopold was in denial of her lack of interest. 

 

I can see how some might think Regina and Leopold had to have consummated their marriage within that long period of time, but I also think the writers might have been pulling inspiration from some other historical royal marriages. Marie Antoinette was also forced into a marriage with a man she didn't love as a teenager, and that marriage went unconsummated for seven years. There's also the parallel of Louis being more interested in other things instead of his wife and Marie becoming increasingly bored in the palace. So, it's not unprecedented to think that Regina and Leopold never consummated, especially considering that the on-screen evidence (which is the strongest evidence in TV, not head-canon assumptions) has shown that they slept in separate bedrooms and Regina was off having numerous adventures by herself.

 

However, if we do somehow learn that Regina and Leopold actually went there once or a few times, it does seem to make sense why Regina felt entitled enough to do a similar thing to Graham. But since the writers won't touch that topic with a ten-thousand foot pole, Regina and Leopold's hypothetical extra-curricular activities will always remain a mystery.

 

I don't want to get into the Tumblr argument because there's just nowhere good it can go. :)

 

Aww, but your posts keep these forums from becoming an anti-Regina echo chamber. ;)

Edited April 7, 2015 by Curio

[Camera One]

When I rewatched the first two episodes of 4B, I actually thought Regina came off quite well and sympathetic.  She was taking some responsibility, was willing to sacrifice herself with the Chernozog, genuinely apologized to Gepetto, and was willing to listen to Snow's troubles without snarking.  And then we got "Enter the Dragon" and another damaging flashback with her newly created ribbon envy (who thought of that pathetic motivating factor in the writers' room), so they just can't help shooting themselves in the foot.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

Leopold and Regina were married. So, I expect they consummated the marriage. Just because neither of them loved each other doesn't mean sex between them must have been spousal rape.

As others have mentioned, Leopold doesn't seem like the kind of guy to force himself on anyone, and Regina went into the marriage willingly in the end. She would expect that marriage would most likely involve physical relations. Just because Leopold was quite a bit older than Regina doesn't automatically make him a creeper or a rapist.

[Mari]

I also think the writers might have been pulling inspiration from some other historical royal marriages. Marie Antoinette was also forced into a marriage with a man she didn't love as a teenager, and that marriage went unconsummated for seven years. There's also the parallel of Louis being more interested in other things instead of his wife and Marie becoming increasingly bored in the palace.

. . .

Aww, but your posts keep these forums from becoming an anti-Regina echo chamber. ;)

 

 

Good point about Marie Antoinette and Louis paralleling in some ways Regina and Leopold. 

 

Eleanor Herman wrote a couple of books on sex in historical monarchies--Sex with Kings and Sex with the Queen.  They're a bit pulpy--although not usually explicitly sexual, despite the titles--and have lots of interesting little historical bits and unexpected trivia, should anyone be interested.

 

And I have to agree about not wanting to become an echo chamber.  It's interesting to see an opposing viewpoint presented in a reasonable way.  It may not convince me, but it does make me get out of my own thoughtbox.

[Shanna Marie]

You know, if anything the consent issues in that marriage work the other way around. Leopold was up front with his reason for the marriage: to get a mother for his daughter, and he went into it believing that Regina was the right person because she'd demonstrated what looked like love and caring toward Snow. Regina entered into the marriage so she'd be better situated for getting revenge on Snow. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have married her if he'd known her real agenda, and he certainly wouldn't have slept with her if he'd known that. Aside from the issue of physical pleasure, she's the one who had a lot more to gain from that marriage being consummated because it would have made it harder to annul if he'd changed his mind about her being the right person for the mother job. She hardly seemed to regard Leopold as a human being, just as a tool she could use to hurt Snow.

 

But it's hard to judge that marriage because we have no objective view of it other than the birthday party scene that had to have happened at least 10-15 years after they were married. Leo seems to barely notice Regina then, but was that because he was always that neglectful, or had he by that time given up on engaging her after she kept freezing him out and he'd picked up on her vibe toward Snow? Everything that happened later in that episode was told either by Regina or her father to the genie as part of manipulating him, so we have no objective view of the truth. We don't know if Leo really did read her diary or lock her away because we didn't see it happen.

[KingOfHearts]

I was with that article until it started giving reasons why people hate Regina. The context is what's important here - the internet fandom side of the viewership, where all shipper wars and "my character is better than your character" arguments take place. It's where, unfortunately, people use generalizations like sexism to drive their point across. Not all of the fandom is this way, but that seems to be the kind of place this article is coming from and is referring to. I agree that Regina is immensely popular on the internet and in the minds of many of the most passionate of fans.

 

But I can picture several other reasons why people would not like Regina that's not mentioned here. Foe one, as what is listed in final detail on this board, the fact she gets to do whatever she wants with no punishment whatsoever. Also, she's a golden child Mary Sue who literally gets away with murder because she's A&E's favorite. If you don't love Regina to death it can be very, very bothersome.

 

This article failed to give a reason why people like Regina. It only represented one perspective of the story, albeit from the exact opposing side. It's so incredibly meta and fandom-focused that it didn't observe the core subject - Regina and why people are divided over her. It's put in a very limited context. It's biased, to say the least. It didn't represent either side very fairly.

 

 

Just because Leopold was quite a bit older than Regina doesn't automatically make him a creeper or a rapist.

And apparently Regina was able to leave any time she wanted to. She was never in any real "danger".

Edited April 6, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

I find it really disturbing that because Leopold is a man who may have had sex with his wife, he is somehow a rapist. Regina chose to marry Leopold. No one forced her into it. If they had a sexual relationship, I don't understand why it is assumed that anything between them was non-consensual or that if Regina had rejected his attempts to have a sexual relationship, he would force himself on her. Headcanon all you want but there is zero evidence that any sex between the two was rape.  If nothing else, it would've made sense for her to play sweet in the bedroom to lull Leopold into believing she was a good wife and mother while she improved her magic and plotted her revenge. While Regina may have been playacting and not enjoying herself, it in no way makes Leopold a rapist.

 

It's not like we don't know Regina doesn't have a problem with having sex with men she doesn't have feelings for. She screwed Graham for thirty years and we know that wasn't a loving relationship. She was using him for sex. Lana even referred to Graham as Regina's "boy toy".  It's fascinating to me that there is this assumption that Leopold = man = rapist while at the same time saying that being a woman is one of the reasons for why so many hate Regina. Don't make sweeping generalizations about men, sex and rape (implying a very negative attitude towards men) while at the same time taking people to task for judging a character on her gender.

[Zuleikha]

I find it really disturbing that because Leopold is a man who may have had sex with his wife, he is somehow a rapist. Regina chose to marry Leopold. No one forced her into it.

 

It's not because Leopold is a man. It's because of the power discrepancy and the specific relationship that was portrayed on screen. Leopold was much older, was the one to pick her, was the one who all of the servants and guards would have been loyal to when Regina started living at the palace, and was the actual king. We also know from "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" that Leopold knew Regina was unhappy, wanted to be loved, and had no expectation that he would ever love her yet was possessive and upset that she had romantic feelings for someone else. We also know that rather than talk to Regina about what he read in her diary and discuss the problems in the marriage openly, he used the Genie to spy on her. Given that he read her diary, we know he had no qualms about violating her privacy.

 

In "Quite A Common Fairy"--which based on Regina's age appears to be on the earlier side of the marriage--we learn that he often travels with Snow White without her and that she feels abandoned, trapped, and miserable. She describes the marriage as a farce to Tinker Bell when Regina is not attempting to manipulate Tinker Bell into anything, so there's no reason to believe she's not being honest about her unhappiness. It's not like "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" when her description of herself as trapped in the palace may have been a complete lie and was certainly exaggerated to manipulate the Genie. Regina may have even been suicidal at the point of "Quite A Common Fairy" if we're to believe Tink's interpretation of the fall (which I've never been sure whether we were or not; I lean towards thinking we were from Regina's reaction to Tink).

 

So IMHO, the overall picture of Leopold/Regina's marriage is not very pretty. Regina felt powerless and hopeless; Leopold was leaving her for long periods early on in the marriage; and Leopold felt entitled to violate her privacy and have her loyalty and love even as he doesn't love her, have any intention of growing to love her, or think he's deluded her into feeling loved.

 

Also Regina absolutely did not choose to marry Leopold. Cora forced her into the engagement and trapped her in the palace. Regina tried to escape the wedding multiple times and was thwarted. She had a brief blip of time (one day at most, possibly less than that) after Rumple gave her the mirror when she did choose, again, to flee, but Rumple stopped her and manipulated her into going through with the marriage with the promise of teaching her magic and thus giving her power, which we learn in "The Doctor" she believe may allow her to resurrect Daniel. Yes, Regina made a choice at that one singular moment, but focusing on that single nominal choice as the end all and be all ignores all of the other times leading up to the wedding that Regina was forced and the trauma she was under when Rumple--who knew exactly how traumatized Regina was--tempted her with an offer of finally having power. 

 

Now it's certainly possible that the marriage went unconsummated--I hadn't considered that a possibility due to the length of time of the marriage, but with the links provided above and the matter of fact way Leopold talked to the Genie about never loving Regina, I'm open to it. I do think the more likely inference is that Leopold had sex with her when he wanted to with complete indifference as to whether Regina wanted to have sex with him or not, but I also don't think the writers have spent a single second thinking about it or intend for us to view Regina as a sexual assault survivor. 

[Curio]

I do think the more likely inference is that Leopold had sex with her when he wanted to with complete indifference as to whether Regina wanted to have sex with him or not, but I also don't think the writers have spent a single second thinking about it or intend for us to view Regina as a sexual assault survivor. 

 

I'm going to go with the latter, considering the writers didn't intend for us to view Graham as a sexual assault survivor either.

[Camera One]

It's not because Leopold is a man. It's because of the power discrepancy and the specific relationship that was portrayed on screen. Leopold was much older, was the one to pick her, was the one who all of the servants and guards would have been loyal to when Regina started living at the palace, and was the actual king.

 

While that is true, there is no indication that Leopold exerted that power.  Regina had no problem getting away for magic lessons, to make visits to see Maleficent, or being out in the public drinking with Tink.  I would hardly call that "trapped".  She was never afraid of being found out, which suggests she did not fear him at all.  

 

 

 

In "Quite A Common Fairy"--which based on Regina's age appears to be on the earlier side of the marriage--we learn that he often travels with Snow White without her and that she feels abandoned, trapped, and miserable. She describes the marriage as a farce to Tinker Bell when Regina is not attempting to manipulate Tinker Bell into anything, so there's no reason to believe she's not being honest about her unhappiness.

 

Clearly, there's no disputing that she was unhappy.  But she was the one who was making herself unhappy.  Yes, she was stuck in a loveless marriage, but she did agree to it.  I too hated Rumple manipulating her, but she decided to turn back, guided by her single-minded desire to bring Daniel back from the dead and to punish Snow.  To me, she was over-dramatizing to Tink how bad her life was.  With so much freedom, she could have pursued any hobby she wanted.  I don't consider her abandoned by Leopold and Snow, since they would have welcomed her on tours of the kingdom.  And they clearly let her stay behind when she didn't want to go.  Regina took it personally but we know that Leopold left Ava alone for long periods as well, and he actually loved her.

 

The episode where I did feel most sorry for Regina was when Rumple played that trick about Dr. Frankenstein resurrecting Daniel.   That was just despicable.  But I do think Regina needed to take some responsibility for her misery under the unhappy conditions in Leopold's castle, and however bad it was, it was no excuse for murdering him and trying to murder his daughter.  A hero like Cinderella or Belle, for example, were trapped with much less freedom, with much less choice about how they ended up in those circumstances, and yet they were able to push themselves to try to find some little moments of happiness without hurting others.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Camera One

[Zuleikha]

I'm going to go with the latter, considering the writers didn't intend for us to view Graham as a sexual assault survivor either.

Yeah, that's part of why I doubt the writers have thought about possible implications of the Regina/Leopold marriage. Graham/Regina was clearly shown to be openly non-consensual, at least in the Enchanted Forest. If the writers could write that scene of Regina holding Graham's heart and ordering her soldiers to bring him to his bedchamber and not realizing they're writing a rape scene, then there's no way they would realize some audience members would infer Leopold raped Regina. (and it is so enraging and horrifying that the writers apparently failed to recognize the Regina/Graham EF scene portrayed an unquestionable rape. Like what the hell ambiguity did they think was there?)

 

Regina had no problem getting away for magic lessons, to make visits to see Maleficent, or being out in the public drinking with Tink.  I would hardly call that "trapped".

We know that Regina could get away from the palace for some amount of time, but we don't know that she wouldn't have had problems if she hadn't come back when she was expected to be back. Regina wanted to be free to control her own life, not just to go out for brief periods of time. She may have had that freedom and not realized it; she may genuinely not have had it. We just don't know with what was on screen. I'd love more fairybacks to flesh out Regina/Leopold's relationship, but I doubt A&E are as interested in that.

 

I don't consider her abandoned by Leopold and Snow, since they would have welcomed her on tours of the kingdom.

When was that established? I don't remember that.

[Camera One]

It wasn't stated outright, but given what we've seen of Young Snow's personality, why wouldn't she ask Regina to go with them?  Regina told Tink that the only good thing is the King and Snow are gone all the time.  I truly doubt she would have been happier if they dragged her along with them.  

 

They've shown Regina leaving the palace multiple times for long periods with no consequence or any fear of consequence, so I don't consider that prisoner status.

 

And once she did have the magic, she could have just left.  Now that we know how small Leopold's kingdom is in relation to the whole Enchanted Forest, and with her powerful magic, she could have gone anywhere and Leopold couldn't stop her.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Camera One

[Zuleikha]

It wasn't stated outright, but given what we've seen of Young Snow's personality, why wouldn't she ask Regina to go with them? ... I truly doubt she would have been happier if they dragged her along with them.

That's the same logic that leads people to conclude it's a given that Leopold raped Regina. That's just your headcanon. It's just as possible that it never occurred to Snow to ask Regina because Ava never wanted to go or that it wouldn't/didn't matter if Snow asked Regina because Leopold didn't want to bring Regina and wouldn't let her come along. 

 

We don't know if Regina would have been happier if she'd been able to go along because we don't know enough details about Regina, Leopold, and Snow. We know that by "Quite A Common Fairy," Regina was lonely and bored and felt trapped by her life. We also know that although she thought about hurting Snow in the "We are Both" flashbacks, she was horrified by her revenge fantasies and wanted to escape rather than plot revenge. In "The Doctor," she seems to be planning on learning just enough from Rumple to resurrect Daniel and again escape. She again does not seem interested in revenge against Snow at that point. Maybe if Leopold had taken Regina along, given her respect and kindness, and encouraged the kingdom to love and respect her as their new queen, Regina would have found a peace with her life and with Snow and rejected Rumple's manipulations. We know that Regina and Snow had the potential to have a loving relationship with each other, after all. 

 

Most of the times we saw Regina leave the palace were short trips to train with Rumple or the one drinking trip with Tink. The one sort of long trip I can remember off hand was in Enter the Dragon, but that trip was an unclear length and was probably later in the marriage. Regina may have amassed her own loyalists in the palace who helped her slip out for longer periods of time (since she had her own loyal guards in "The Heart is a Lonely Hunter," which was right after the king's death, it seems likely she started amassing her own power base at some point during the marriage in preparation for seizing the throne). We also didn't see a return encounter with Leopold, so we don't actually know whether she was found out and faced any penalties. 

 

She didn't have magic in one fell swoop. At the point of "The Doctor," she didn't appear to know much magic at all. "Quite A Common Fairy" has to have been later because Rumple's stopped pretending to be benevolent or neutral, but we don't see her do any magic at all (IIRC, natch), so we don't know how powerful she is beyond knowing how to take hearts. In Enter the Dragon--which I would guess is later than Quite A Common Fairy based on Regina's commitment to vengeance, we know that she's not powerful enough yet to take on Stefan and his soldiers and needed Maleficent.

[Dani-Ellie]

My thing with Regina is that at some point, her choices have to be her own. No, she did not want to marry Leopold. Yes, she tried to run away and Cora stopped her. But even after she trapped Cora in the mirror, she still went along with it. If she truly did not want this marriage, why go through with it when the person pressuring her into it is gone? In my eyes, it's because she did have her own agenda, even if that agenda was revenge. And I'm sorry, but that is most definitely on Regina.

 

As far as Regina being trapped in the castle, this is also the woman who spent how many years exacting revenge on a child for someone else killing her boyfriend. Anything that comes out of her mouth, as far as I'm concerned, is suspect, because her perspective has been shown to be suspect. I'm not saying she didn't feel trapped, but her language, especially to Tink ("prisoner" and the like), calls to mind shackles and cells and punishments for going awol. We have no evidence of that. We've seen she was free to disappear for magic lessons and visiting friends. That's not a literal prisoner who has no freedom. And once Regina was practiced enough in magic, she could have just disappeared. Just poofed out of the castle and into another kingdom and blended in with them. If she'd done it well, no one would have been able to find her. We have no indication that anyone in the kingdom paid Regina any mind until she put a price on Snow's head. But she chose to stay, because she had plans of her own.

 

And regardless of how shitty a husband Leopold may or may not have been, he did not deserve to be murdered. (This, incidentally, is where I first came across the marital rape headcanon. I argued this same point on LiveJournal and the other poster was all, "Wow, so a rapist doesn't deserve to be killed?" Needless to say, I was all, "WTF?!")

 

Basically, for me, Regina needs to take responsibility for her choices instead of constantly blaming her path on Snow, Leopold, Rumple, the constituents she terrorized, Emma, and the Author. She may have been led towards a path by the hand but no one had a metaphorical gun to her head and forced her to go down it. She made choices out of anger and vengeance, and those choices (and the consequences of those choices) are on her.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[YaddaYadda]

I don't normally come in this thread because these days, I just hate all things Regina (and I loved her in season 1 so much!)

 

Regina's condition during her marriage to Leopold is no different than any woman's who is basically married off against her will to a man she doesn't love.  It's still a fact in a lot of countries in the world.  The girl can say no, she can run, if they catch up with her, she'll take a beating and be sent to the husband she doesn't want or she dies a horrible death because she has tarnished the honor of her family.

 

Frankly, in this instance, I find Cora even more repulsive as a person.  And I don't care that she did not have her heart inside her chest.  She never wanted her kid's happiness and she made her more vulnerable.  The only thing Regina was guilty of doing until then was fall in love with the boy from the wrong side of the tracks.

 

I think that what Leopold wanted was a mother for his child, period.  I don't think he wanted a sexual partner, a wife or anything like that.  He remarried because he had to.  He didn't love, she didn't love him, he wanted her to be a mother to Snow, but anyone who has seen any television  series about royals also know that a king had carte blanche to cheat however many times he wanted to on his queen, he could flaunt his mistresses, have bastard children he was free to dote on.  If a queen cheated on her king, it was treason, plain and simple and she could be executed for it.  So him, neglecting her and then going through her things and behaving like the jilted lover is a bit much, but he's a royal and with that comes a sense of entitlement.  (if you guys haven't seen The Tudors, please do, it's an awesome series and bonus points, Henry Calvill's naked butt).

[Mari]

The thing is, in the end the marriage wasn't against her will. She married Leopold after Cora was shoved through the mirror. Before the wedding, she and Henry sr talked about it, and she decided to marry Leopold. She had plans. Power and revenge, instead of love, plans. She did not indicate at all that her family was forcing her into it, or that Leopold was, either, and Henry seemed to think she was able to call off the engagement.

To stop the marriage, all Regina would have to say is that a dear friend had just died, and her beloved mother had disappeared, and she was too distraught to marry. Those are reasonable and socially acceptable reasons to call off a wedding; often official mourning could go for weeks or months.

Even if Leopold was the brute some seem to think he was, he did not have that reputation, and reputation matters--especially between power families. Forcing a traumatized woman who'd just lost her mother, who was from the royal family of another kingdom? That wouldn't be something done unless you were power mad or stupid.

It just seems like Leopold is getting the blame for Regina's regrets, which is not fair. his being older and in love with his dead wife is not ideal, by any means, but he seems to have been honest about what he was offering. Blaming him because Regina found marriage to him distasteful is removing a great deal of Regina's own capacity and power.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Mari

[KingOfHearts]

Leopold's entire purpose of marrying Regina was so Snow could have a loving mother. It wasn't for political reasons or even companionship for himself.

Edited April 7, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

Leopold's entire purpose of marrying Regina was so Snow could have a loving mother. It wasn't for political reasons or even companionship for himself.

Yes. Which means, logically, if Regina was not included in their trips and activities most of the time, it was because she didn't want to be. You don't ask someone to mother your child and then promptly send her off to another castle, separating her from that child.

And it makes it less likely that he would have forced the marriage issue if he thought Regina was reluctant.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Mari

[YaddaYadda]

The thing is, in the end the marriage wasn't against her will. She married Leopold after Cora was shoved through the mirror. Before the wedding, she and Henry sr talked about it, and she decided to marry Leopold. She had plans. Power and revenge, instead of love, plans. She did not indicate at all that her family was forcing her into it, or that Leopold was, either, and Henry seemed to think she was able to call off the engagement.

 

I can honestly say that I remember absolutely none of that.  I should really give season 1 a re-watch.

[Curio]

we don't know enough details about Regina

I have a feeling the writers say this ad nauseam in the writers room, which is how we came about getting the scene with Regina tearing down Snow's horse riding ribbons. Sometimes, it's okay to not know every detail about a character... (Especially when there are other characters who are begging to be fleshed out more.)

 

Which means, logically, if Regina was not included in their trips and activities most of the time, it was because she didn't want to be. You don't ask someone to mother your child and then promptly send her off to another castle, separating her from that child.

 

I get that vibe, too. Regina reminds me a lot of a relative of mine (minus the murdering and whatnot) with how she purposely doesn't want to be involved with any of the family events, but then complains about not being the center of attention. You'll invite her to go to a movie with the rest of the family, but she'll just roll her eyes and complain that she hates that genre so she'd rather just stay at home. Everyone shrugs and goes to the movie anyways, but then you hear through the grapevine that she's upset because no one wants anything to do with her. It's like, honey, you dug yourself into that hole.

[Mari]

I can honestly say that I remember absolutely none of that. I should really give season 1 a re-watch.

Cora's mirror swim was first season, but the Henry sr/Regina conversation was in a much more recent flashback. I think in this season--although I don't remember if it was actually in the episode or released by A&E later as a "canon scene we ran out of time for."

Edited April 7, 2015 by Mari

[Mathius]

Cora's mirror swim was first season, but the Henry sr/Regina conversation was in a much more recent flashback. I think in this season--although I don't remember if it was actually in the episode or released by A&E later as a "canon scene we ran out of time for."

No, Cora going through the mirror was the second season (2x02: "We Are Both") while the Henry sr/Regina conversation was a deleted flashback from 3x11: "Going Home". It's absence is actually pretty glaring, since each act of the episode opens with a short flashback EXCEPT for the fifth one which that flashback was meant for.

[Zuleikha]

Yes. Which means, logically, if Regina was not included in their trips and activities most of the time, it was because she didn't want to be. You don't ask someone to mother your child and then promptly send her off to another castle, separating her from that child.

And it makes it less likely that he would have forced the marriage issue if he thought Regina was reluctant.

 

Or it means that Leopold was self-centered and thoughtless in terms of his relationship with Regina, which are things we've actually seen in "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree". It may also be that the trips were about introducing the realm to the future heir and Leopold deliberately kept Regina from them because he didn't want the realm introduced to her and for her to run away. It is simply not canon that he invited her and she declined. That is people's head canon. It is no more factual than that Leopold raped Regina throughout their marriage, which personally I think is a more logical inference from what we've seen.

 

And it makes it less likely that he would have forced the marriage issue if he thought Regina was reluctant.

Except for when he accepted Cora speaking for her as an acceptance of the engagement while Regina looked shell-shocked and when he went through with the wedding during an entire period when we know that in canon, Regina absolutely did not want to get married and tried to run away at least once. Did he know how reluctant she was? Maybe not, since Regina was, as we saw in canon, literally being trapped by Cora to go through with the wedding. But there's certainly no indication that he put even minimal effort into figuring out or caring what she really wanted either during the initial proposal, the engagement period, or the marriage.

 

I think in this season--although I don't remember if it was actually in the episode or released by A&E later as a "canon scene we ran out of time for."

I did a google search, and I'm guessing you're talking about the "Father of the Bride" unaired scene during 3B. I couldn't find a transcript, and I've both never seen it and had no idea it existed prior to this! The description I read said: "His daughter is crying and depressed that the love of her life is dead and she has to marry Leo, and he's trying to convince her that she should be happy because she'll be a queen and that she can learn to love Leo." So that doesn't exactly match your description and is during a time period when we know that Cora wouldn't have let Regina run away from the wedding because we saw Regina try and get stopped.

[Rumsy4]

I think both Leopold and Regina are responsible for the failure of their marriage. Leopold should not have married a young woman just to get his child a mother. Regina did not bother to do that, and it doesn't seem like Leopold forced her to be that person, even though that had been his original intention.

From several different flashbacks, it seems clear that Regina intentionally isolated herself from everything, spent her time in magic lessons, and pretty much did her own thing. She even admits to Tink in Neverland that she could have joined Leopold and Snow in their tours of the Kingdom. She my not have been dealt a fair card to begin with, but she also chose to wallow in misery, jealousy, and selfishness. If she had been really smart, she could have buddied up to Leopold, and become a powerful influence in the kingdom. Instead, she wanted it all to herself--without having to share.

[Zuleikha]

She even admits to Tink in Neverland that she could have joined Leopold and Snow in their tours of the Kingdom.

I literally just read the transcript of "Quite A Common Fairy" last night and did not see any admission to Tink in either Neverland or an EF flashback that Regina could have joined Leopold and Snow on their tours. Where did you see that?

 

From several different flashbacks, it seems clear that Regina intentionally isolated herself from everything, spent her time in magic lessons, and pretty much did her own thing.

No, it may seem clear to you. But it is absolutely not clear to me and I've written multiple posts about how unclear this is to me. 

 

This current line of discussion started with people being incredulous that Evil Regals were treating headcanon as canon. But that's what I'm seeing... a whole bunch of headcanon about how Leopold wasn't that bad and that Regina made all these deliberate choices to enhance her misery being treated as though its obvious canon. 

[Curio]

I think this is just going to come down to personal interpretation, because yeah...we're getting into discussions about which headcanons are more plausible, which will keep going in circles because there's no evidence to back one person's opinion more than the other. Although, I will say I'm enjoying reading the different hypothetical headcanons, but that's all I'm treating them as - hypothetical.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

The only actual in-show evidence we have is:

Regina sent Cora through the mirror before she was married.

In the early years of her marriage (judging by the longer, looser hair), Regina left the castle for magic lessons with Rumple, to go out to a tavern with Tink, and to track down and visit Maleficent.

Early in her marriage (again, judging by the hair), Regina resented Snow for winning riding prizes and cursed her horse.

Regina was shown her soulmate and chose to stay with her marriage because she wanted to get revenge on Snow.

Later in her marriage -- when Snow was an adult -- Leopold and Snow pretty much ignored Regina. (I don't consider Leo's jealousy over her affair and locking her away to be canon because we never actually saw it. We just saw what the genie was told, and we know she was manipulating the genie.)

 

We never saw the early years of Regina's marriage, so we don't know what came first -- did Leo and Snow ignore Regina from the start, so she always felt shut out? Did they try to include her, only to be shut out and rejected by her? Did she ever even pretend that she actually cared about them or was she always openly contemptuous? Was the situation at the birthday party the status quo all along, or had they given up on trying with her by that time?

 

Which way you guess depends on how you see Regina -- as a victim or perpetrator -- but there's no evidence in either direction. My read is that the context suggests that she was closer to perpetrator because she did have freedom and even if she hated the marriage, she was given the option of being with her soulmate and rejected it because she wanted revenge. Even if Leo had been super loving, the relationship still would have been a sham because Regina was in it to get revenge on Snow. Revenge was Regina's agenda from the start, so it's hard to feel too sad for her not being happy in the marriage she got into and stayed in because she wanted to get revenge on a child, and it's hard to criticize a man who didn't warm to a wife who hated his child and who was plotting the entire time to murder him and his child.

 

There's zero sign that she was raped by Leopold. That headcanon is right up there with the one in which she was discriminated against because she's Latina -- never mind that the Enchanted Forest world seems to be pretty colorblind, with no mention of race, and that her grandfather on the "Latin" side was a king.

[KingOfHearts]

 

It's absence is actually pretty glaring, since each act of the episode opens with a short flashback EXCEPT for the fifth one which that flashback was meant for.

Replying in All Seasons.

Edited April 7, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Zuleikha]

I'm home from work, so of course I ran to YouTube to track down the Henry Sr./Regina pre-wedding scene (because what kind of Evil Regal would I be to know there's a Regina unaired scene and not immediately watch it?). The description of it as establishing

The thing is, in the end the marriage wasn't against her will. She married Leopold after Cora was shoved through the mirror. Before the wedding, she and Henry sr talked about it, and she decided to marry Leopold. She had plans. Power and revenge, instead of love, plans. She did not indicate at all that her family was forcing her into it, or that Leopold was, either, and Henry seemed to think she was able to call off the engagement.

is absolutely not what is in this scene to the point where I'm wondering if there are two scenes.

 

In Father of the Bride, Henry Sr. comes to get Regina because they need to leave for a dress fitting and then for King Leopold's castle (so Cora is still alive and this is before the events of "We Are Both" when she was in King Leopold's castle and it was one day before the wedding). Regina is crying about Daniel and how much she doesn't want to get married. Henry Sr. tries to cheer her up by telling her that she'll be a queen and all girls want that. Regina says no, that's Cora's dream but Regina just wanted true love. Henry Sr. says that Leopold is a good man and she can learn to love him and Snow White. Regina responds that she'll never love again and no one will love her. End of scene. Henry Sr. never indicates that Regina can break the engagement if she wants to and Regina never talks about having plans for power and revenge or otherwise. She is simply miserable and clearly not wanting to get married in any way. It's a sad scene, but I don't think it added anything new to what's already established other than reminding us of how ineffectual Henry Sr. was at protecting Regina from Cora despite his genuine love for her.

 

Is there another unaired scene where Henry Sr. indicates Regina can call off the wedding and Regina chooses to go through with it?

 

(I don't consider Leo's jealousy over her affair and locking her away to be canon because we never actually saw it.

The locking away is not, and I've always been skeptical. But Leopold's jealousy is canon. That's why he has the Genie spying to find out on the potential lover. He talks about Regina as betraying him--it was a lot harsher than I remembered! Right after talking about how he knows how unhappy he is and that he'll never love her, he says "And yet I never imagined that she would betray me like this." Mind you, the diary entry just said that she accepted a gift as a mirror and is feeling hope for love and companionship. There's no confession of infidelity in the diary entry, and as viewers, we know factually that nothing has happened yet. He also talks about the man as stealing away her heart. I remembered the scene as softer; I think because Leopold was old and in bed. But reading his actual dialogue, I think he's awful. (It isn't known, however, what Leopold plans to do to the potential lover because he explicitly doesn't tell the Genie, so it's not impossible that he planned to release Regina from the marriage to let her be happy with the other person but simply wanted to have it happen on his own terms. We're unlikely to ever know because it's so tangential to the present-day story, and it's not like Regina actually wanted to run away with the Genie.)

 

Revenge was Regina's agenda from the start

It wasn't, though. That's what's established in "We are Both" and "The Doctor." Regina's frightened by her visions of vengeance in "We are Both," and "The Doctor" confirms that Regina's interest in learning magic from Rumple is the hope of using the power to resurrect Daniel and leave, not vengeance against Snow or power over a kingdom. That's why Rumple had to do the shenanigans to take the hope from her. By the time of "Quite A Common Fairy" (which I think is before "Enter the Dragon"), Regina's mostly committed to revenge as her only hope of happiness, but she's still also longing for escape. She's started skipping her magic lessons and possibly tries to kill herself. The reason why I think "Quite A Common Fairy" is before "Enter the Dragon" is because I think when she makes the choice not to go into the tavern is the moment when she really chooses evil, and in "Enter the Dragon," she's not conflicted at all. She wants Rumple to teach her more and faster so that she can get her revenge. 

[KAOS Agent]

I find it interesting that in so much headcanon of Regina is that everything she says is taken as gospel truth. Her upset at Leopold in "Quite a Common Fairy" and how she's so miserable all locked up in the castle comes from her conversation with Tinker Bell. Let's look at how that conversation starts out, shall we?

 

Regina: She’s a monster. Totally indulgent and adored. She sort of ricochets through life telling people’s secrets. She had my fiance killed.

Tinker Bell: No.

 

What Regina is saying here is patently false. She is either completely delusional in which case anything she says about anything is highly suspect or more likely, she is telling these things to Tinker Bell to manipulate her into hating Snow and siding with Regina believing her to be horribly abused. Regina is lying from the start. Why would I believe anything she is saying here?

 

To go further, outside of this conversation and "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" (which I will get to in a minute), whenever Regina talks about her husband, it is always in the context of how he loves his dead wife and daughter and not her. This goes to the Evil Queen's major jealousy issues because Regina hates Snow and is jealous that her husband, like everyone else, loves Snow White. One of the problems I see with Regina with regards to her husband not loving her is that she is also in love with another man and cannot even fathom trying to love her husband. Seems a bit rich to blame your spouse for loving his dead wife over you when you have the same issue.

 

Now, let's get back to "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree". What do we know about Regina in this episode? We know that she is lying to the genie to manipulate him into killing her husband. Anything she says or wrote in her diary is part of this con. All of it is highly suspect because it is meant to generate a specific reaction from the genie. Nothing can be assumed to be true.

 

Let's look at what we know about Leopold. This is not headcanon. This is not hearsay from Regina, Snow or anyone else who would have a bias for or against him. These are his actions as played out onscreen. Leopold meets the genie and is given three wishes. His first wish is that everyone who steps foot in his kingdom be happy. This wish, incidentally, would include his wife Regina. His second wish is to give the genie his freedom. These are not the actions of a horrible person. These are the actions of a benevolent ruler who wishes happiness for all. 

 

Next we can review how he treated Cora when told of her perfidy regarding the pregnancy and theft of jewels. He explicitly said that he didn't care what she'd done, all he wanted was for her to tell the truth. Had Cora not lied, I think he would have gone ahead with his marriage to her. Again, this goes to his character and shows he's a good (though stupid) man. None of this tells me that he's a horrid man who uses his power to force others to his will or looks to punish them harshly when they wrong him.

 

When Leopold first meets Regina, he tells her not to bow to him and that he owes her a great debt. He says that it is an honor to meet her. Later, when Snow finds out about Daniel, her response is to immediately run off and tell her father that Regina loves another because he'll understand the power of true love. Regina is the one who stops that from happening. She even acknowledges that Leopold would most likely understand. All of this directly contradicts that Leopold would have ever forced Regina into the marriage or ever force himself on her sexually. If anything, it tells me that Regina could have gone to Leopold and asked for asylum and a good life for her and Daniel as payment for the debt he owes her.  

 

Regina says repeatedly that her marriage is a prison. And she may feel it is such. However, she was spouting off about freedom before she ever got married. She talks to her mother about wanting to be free. She talks to Daniel about it. After pushing her mother through the mirror, she tells Rumpel that leaving was always the plan. Rumpel does not try to stop her. All he asks her is how it felt to use magic and then tells her that she's finally discovered who she is when she confesses to loving it. She returns of her own free will. No one was going to stop her if she'd chosen to leave. 

Edited April 8, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Dani-Ellie]

Regina: She’s a monster. Totally indulgent and adored. She sort of ricochets through life telling people’s secrets. She had my fiance killed.

Tinker Bell: No.

 

Oh my goodness, I'd completely forgotten that! "Had my fiance killed"?! She's totally presenting it as if a ten-year-old put out a hit on the man. FFS, Regina.