S02.E08: The Dark Age

[Lisin]

Haunted by his dark past when he was known as Ripper, Giles confronts his old crony Ethan Rayne in an attempt to save Jenny from the lethal consequences of possession by the demon Eyghon. With Giles and the Slayer slated as its next victims, demon-ridden Angel forces Eyghon to possess him instead.

 

I don't hate this one, but I don't have a huge love for it either. For me this is a kind of meh episode. I suppose I do like that we find out more about Giles and Ethan and Ripper etc. but on rewatch this just isn't a favorite. 

[DAngelus]

"i'm not fickle like you two;  I am constant in my affections.  Amy Yip at the waterslide park."

 

"Wow, a bonus day of class plus Cordelia!  Mix in a little rectal surgery and It's my Best Day Ever!"

 

"Why is everybody always yelling my name?  I'm not deaf, you know!  And I can take a hint!"  (Pause, then, defeated) "What's the hint?"

 

"Honesty. Nice touch."
"One of my virtues." (pauses, considers)  "Not really."

 

"Now the first thing we're going to do is—Buffy?"

"Wha?  Did I fall asleep already?"

 

"Is everybody okay?"
"Super!  I kicked a guy."

 

"Xander, how do you feel about going through Giles's personal files?"
"I feel pretty good about it, actually.  Does that make me a sociopath?  Nah."

 

"Aha!  It's Etruscan, not Egyptian!  Mistaken for Egyptian because of the Iconology, but any fool can see…"

 

"Don't be sorry, just be Giles!"  (Ed. note:  Awww!)

 

"Aren't we manly?"

"One of us is."  (Oh, Buffy.  You little butch.)

 

"I actually like you, Buffy.  I just happen to like myself a whole lot better."

 

"'Bury a potato!'  No, that's for warts.  Who writes this stuff?"

 

"The hills are, uh, not alive…"  (Ed. note: sniff!)

 

"Bay City Rollers.  Now that's music!"

 

No complaints, no complaints at all.  (Still middle-of-the-pack for me, season-wise, but that's more about the quality of the rest than any indictment here.)

[Earl Is Dead]

Was this the first (if not only?) foreshadowing of the loathsome "magic as drug" analogy? 

[DAngelus]

The most blatant, yes, although there's also Giles warning Willow in Becoming, Part 1 (wrt the ensouling spell) that channeling such power into her may be "opening a door" that she can't close.   I think they were going for a general "the supernatural is addictive" vibe though, IMO, since they'd already drawn pretty clear connections between vampires and addicts in Angel ("Just say yes"). 

 

I've never really had a side in this fight, though;  on the one hand "magic addiction" is corny, ham-fisted, and turned Giles (retroactively) into the neighborhood pusher (endorsed by the whole Watchers' Council, no less!), but OTOH, it's what saved us from the early S6 "Willow was EEEEEEVIL all along!  Beware of 'the quiet ones', pretty people! Nerds are scum!  Thank heavens Buffy has Spike!" stench, so I was actually pretty glad of it when it happened.  Wrecked is still working some good will from me for shutting Anya up on this matter, to be quite honest.  So it doesn't bother me here.

 

Besides, maybe it was just the 5-guys-1-girl orgies that Giles found so addictive?  Oh, my poor Jenny, you never had a chance with him, anyhow.  (Unless the boys never touched each other and Dierdre was just really flexible and resilient, that is.)

[Jazzy24]

It's actually creepy how Angel is choking the demon out of Jenny when a few episodes later Angelus is snapping Jenny's neck. Ugh

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎20‎/‎06‎/‎2014 at 6:06 PM, Lisin said:

 

I don't hate this one, but I don't have a huge love for it either. For me this is a kind of meh episode. I suppose I do like that we find out more about Giles and Ethan and Ripper etc. but on rewatch this just isn't a favorite. 

I think the special effects really let this one down, the story is ok. 

On ‎21‎/‎06‎/‎2014 at 5:29 AM, DAngelus said:

"i'm not fickle like you two;  I am constant in my affections.  Amy Yip at the waterslide park."

"Bay City Rollers.  Now that's music!"

 

 

According to the comics Buffy and Willow's fantasies have now changed to;

Spoiler

Various incarnations of Christian Bale and Daniel Craig as 007 for Buffy and Tina Fey for Willow

I wonder what Xander's would be now? Although frankly as he was dating;

Spoiler

the Dawnster that may be a moot point, finally got himself a Summer's girl. 

On ‎24‎/‎06‎/‎2014 at 3:38 PM, Earl Is Dead said:

Was this the first (if not only?) foreshadowing of the loathsome "magic as drug" analogy? 

I believe so, they haven't used much yet. 

 

On ‎26‎/‎06‎/‎2014 at 5:21 AM, Jazzy24 said:

It's actually creepy how Angel is choking the demon out of Jenny when a few episodes later Angelus is snapping Jenny's neck. Ugh

I never considered that, I wonder had they written that ep yet?

 The Dark Age;

The Good; Buffy's training although as Will later comments isn't she just naturally buff? Willow coming through with a great idea, Cordy tripping Ethan

The Bad; The melting effect is a little lame. The demon seems quite insignificant compared to the threats we later see.

Best line; Buffy; "Have I ever let you down?" Giles; "Do you want me to answer that or just glare?" but also Xander; "An extra day in school plus Cordelia? Mix in a little rectal surgery and it's my best day ever"

Questions and observations; Who's Gavin Rossdale? . Very much Giles' episode and adding a lot more depth to his character. Great stuff between him and Ethan, you wonder if ASH and Robin Sachs have worked together before, they really do come across as old friends. Why does Eoghan wait all these years? Drunk Giles for the first time.  The Bay City Rollers were late 70s and a little cheesy for a teen rebel like Giles. Jenny knocked unconscious and goes evil, Buffy knocked unconscious and tied up.Here Xander disparages computers but Nic Brendon will go on to play a computer expert in his recurring role on 'Criminal Minds'

Spoiler

According to the comics Buffy's fantasy hasn't changed that much it's just Daniel Craig now. Willow by contrast likes Tina Fey now (Seth Green and Eric Balfour will work with John Cusack in 'America's Sweethearts' and Michelle Tractenberg will work with his sister Joan in 'Ice Princess').

Xander mentions his infamous uncle Rory who we'll later meet in Hell's Bells.

Jenny mentions "I've got you under my skin" which is later a title for an Angel ep.

6/10, good ep but not brilliant

Edited June 14, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[Halting Hex]

Gavin Rossdale is/was the lead singer for Bush. 

Spoiler

Who have a song in Dead Things, while Buffy is laughably fondling Spike's door.  "Straight out of Days of Our Lives" as one commenter put it.

He may be best known nowadays as the ex-husband of Gwen Stefani, one of the stranger celebrity divorces of recent times.  But that's probably a bit OT…

[Joe Hellandback]

10 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Gavin Rossdale is/was the lead singer for Bush. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Who have a song in Dead Things, while Buffy is laughably fondling Spike's door.  "Straight out of Days of Our Lives" as one commenter put it.

He may be best known nowadays as the ex-husband of Gwen Stefani, one of the stranger celebrity divorces of recent times.  But that's probably a bit OT…

Lucky him!

[lembergwatcher]

The fact that Willow helps Jenny with computer class on Saturday kinda proves her upbringing isn't strictly Jewish as one might think. Just an observation.

[Pallas]

Willow's upbringing may be strictly Jewish and still compatible with teaching on the sabbath. More than a third of American Jews do not observe religious practices; among observant American Jews, the majority practice Reform Judaism, which does not prohibit work on the sabbath. 

[Halting Hex]

And Conservative Judaism (less strict than Orthodox, but not all barely-Jewish like Reform) still technically has the strictures against working on Saturday, but it's not as if people don't cheat. 

Spoiler

I figure that Ira wanted to know why Willow wasn't going with him to synagogue, but Sheila was like "it's just this once and it's for school; don't make a fuss".  Or maybe Ira goes to Friday night services instead, and this was even less of an issue.

[lembergwatcher]

Something tells me Giles played in Sex Pistols in the wild days of his youth...

[Halting Hex]

Well, at least that fits his age better than that silly story

Spoiler

he told Olivia about Pink Floyd.

Would people really mistake Etruscan for Egyptian?  Yes, contemporaneous and they both start with "E", but the two cultures were rather apart, geographically, and the Etruscans had an actual alphabet (derived from Greek) where the Egyptians were using hieroglpyhics.  Not hard to differentiate, I wouldn't think.

Well, Willow does say "any fool can see…" I guess that isn't hyperbole, after all.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎26‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 7:48 PM, Halting Hex said:

Well, at least that fits his age better than that silly story

  Hide contents

he told Olivia about Pink Floyd.

Would people really mistake Etruscan for Egyptian?  Yes, contemporaneous and they both start with "E", but the two cultures were rather apart, geographically, and the Etruscans had an actual alphabet (derived from Greek) where the Egyptians were using hieroglpyhics.  Not hard to differentiate, I wouldn't think.

Well, Willow does say "any fool can see…" I guess that isn't hyperbole, after all.

True, they're a Cambridge group and he went to Oxford. Unless his pseudonym was Sid Barret?

On ‎26‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 6:19 PM, lembergwatcher said:

Something tells me Giles played in Sex Pistols in the wild days of his youth...

Not the Bay City Rollers?

[lembergwatcher]

[lembergwatcher]

Ripper and Ethan in the days of their youth.

[Joe Hellandback]

13 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Ripper and Ethan in the days of their youth.

Very swinging London, did they know Austin Powers? Love ASH's ascot!

[lembergwatcher]

They knew Austin Powers, Syd Barrett, Graham Bond and the entire Black Widow band, were friends with Wicca Maxine Sanders and liked Witchfinder General movie and chased Christopher Lee, begging for autographs.

[Halting Hex]

On 6/20/2014 at 9:29 PM, DAngelus said:

"Now the first thing we're going to do is—Buffy?"

"Wha?  Did I fall asleep already?"

So Xander has dreams where not only he, but also Willow and Cordelia and Jenny all "do" Buffy, is that it?  Dang, Imaginary!Buffy is quite the machine. 

Spoiler

And Xander hasn't even met Faith yet, nor has Scott Hope done his bit to spread Those Pesky Lesbian Rumors about Buff.  I guess The One Who Sees saw Satsu in Buffy's future, before he even knew that Potentials existed. Hmmm.

[Joe Hellandback]

21 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

So Xander has dreams where not only he, but also Willow and Cordelia and Jenny all "do" Buffy, is that it?  Dang, Imaginary!Buffy is quite the machine. 

  Hide contents

And Xander hasn't even met Faith yet, nor has Scott Hope done his bit to spread Those Pesky Lesbian Rumors about Buff.  I guess The One Who Sees saw Satsu in Buffy's future, before he even knew that Potentials existed. Hmmm.

I'm sure there's a fanfic somewhere. 

[lembergwatcher]

When I watched this ep for the first time many-many years ago, I was quite surprised to learn Giles had his own apartment. I thought the quy's been living in the library  for nearly twenty episodes.

[Halting Hex]

If Giles had been living in the Library, vampires wouldn't have been able to enter it uninvited, be it Angel in Out of Mind, Out of Sight, or the randoms in Prophecy Girl, or Walt, Bob, Ned and Jane in When She Was Bad.

My question is…if Giles had been living in the Library and vamps couldn't enter without permission, what happens when Buffy throws the Master through the skylight in Prophecy Girl?  Does Fruit-Punch-Mouth bounce off of the force-field?

More seriously, we do see Giles arriving at the school in Teacher's Pet, so that at least implies he lives off-campus.

[Loandbehold]

13 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

If Giles had been living in the Library, vampires wouldn't have been able to enter it uninvited, be it Angel in Out of Mind, Out of Sight, or the randoms in Prophecy Girl, or Walt, Bob, Ned and Jane in When She Was Bad.

I think that would depend on whether Giles had a legal right to be living at the library. A signed lease. If he's just a squatter, then I would say that any vampire could enter just like they could enter the rest of the school. Although, I must admit the idea of The Master bouncing off the force field like it was a trampoline is rather amusing.

[Joe Hellandback]

19 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

I think that would depend on whether Giles had a legal right to be living at the library. A signed lease. If he's just a squatter, then I would say that any vampire could enter just like they could enter the rest of the school. Although, I must admit the idea of The Master bouncing off the force field like it was a trampoline is rather amusing.

Bouncing off it and being fatally impaled on a nearby tree would have been hilarious 

[Halting Hex]

In the hospital parking lot, after Angel's unexpected arrival during the fight:

Quote

BUFFY: How did you know about this?

ANGEL: It's delivery day. Everybody knows about this.

So, let me get this straight.  Last episode, Angel insisted on being told whether Buffy loved him, and she said that she did.  This episode…they're both planning on showing up for "delivery day", but neither of them knew about the other's plans?  What, Buffy didn't call Angel up* and ask what he was going to be doing? "Hey, wakey-wakey Angel-kins…did you get a good day's sleep?  So, what are your plans for tonight?  Me?  I'm going to be at the hospital to protect the blood delivery…no, that's nice, but you don't have to come, I think I can handle it.  I mean, unless you want to…"  Doesn't seem like a particularly healthy relationship 😞

*-We know that Angel has a phone and we know the gang knows the number; Giles calls him up to invite him to the Library in Prophecy Girl.

[lembergwatcher]

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Doesn't seem like a particularly healthy relationship 😞

How dare you question the Love of the Ages??? 😆

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

We know that Angel has a phone and we know the gang knows the number; Giles calls him up to invite him to the Library in Prophecy Girl.

Maybe Angel is still mostly a 18/19th century kind of guy who's either uncomfortable with using another dreaded machine or unable to figure out how that benefit of civilization works. He clearly prefers coming out of nowhere, be it sneaking into Buffy's bedroom through the window or arriving for blood delivery without warning. Girls like Buffy love surprises, after all.

[Halting Hex]

Quote

GILES (on the phone to someone, enquiring about Deirdre):  I-I realize it's, uh, five in the morning there—

Aww, look, Giles knows how to tell time in England now!  He's learned how to add 8 hours!  (As opposed to Teacher's Pet, where he didn't know what time it was at Carlyle's sanitarium.)  See, he is teachable!  Good show, Giles!

Joseph Harding completely marked out for the G/Jenny kiss in Act I.  He really doesn't know what show he's watching, does he?  Jenny's "lucky" she only got, essentially, raped…if I hadn't started watching later in the series and thus known that she survives the episode, I would have been rather worried for her.

Would Punk!Giles really have been a fan of Bay City Rollers?

Maybe Ripper tried to tell the band they should do Dusty Springfield covers?  (The Rollers did "I Only Want to Be with You", perhaps Giles wanted to cover "Son of a Preacher Man"?)  Hmm.

S!A!T-U-R!D-A-Y! Hey!!

Edited June 27, 2019 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

I just don't buy the whole "Giles loved Bay City Rollers" thing either.

What I can imagine is 20+ something drunk as fuck Giles standing somewhere on a Leicester Square screaming out Sex Pistols' songs...

[illdoc]

13 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

S!A!T-U-R!D-A-Y! Hey!!

Isn't it "Night", not "Hey"???

[Halting Hex]

No, the audio's a little muddled at the beginning, but if you check out 2.30, you can see that the "Saturday" spelling chant is punctuated with a "Hey!" and a raised fist.

"Saturday night" is in the lyrics of the actual song, of course, but I guess the lads studied Sondheim and knew that words that end in a "closed" consonant (like the "t" in "night") aren't very good ways to end lyric lines, because they cut off the vocal.

Ma-reee-ah!

Ma-reee-ah!

I just met a girl named Maria!

And suddenly that name will never be the same

To Meeeeeeeeee!

Edited June 27, 2019 by Halting Hex

[illdoc]

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS693US693&ei=3iAVXc73HJT0tAaSiI2QBw&q=saturday+night+bay+city+rollers+lyrics&oq=saturday+night+bay+c&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0l10.9021.10144..12907...0.0..1.370.732.4j3-1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.MIRpEHEOM88

[Halting Hex]

Interesting.  It still seems as though they're saying "Hey!" in the final chorus here as well, though:

That said, if those are "official" lyrics (rather than somebody just posting what they hear), it's the band's decision to publish what they publish.  But I'm still hearing "Hey!" there.

JMHey, I suppose.

[Halting Hex]

It should be noted that Bay City Rollers' big hit being called "Saturday Night" works well with the episode being (mostly) set on Saturday.  Jenny even says "Saturday night" when setting up her and Giles's date in Act 1.  I don't know if anyone ever made an episode MV set to the song, but the opportunity is there.

Another musical note (pun!) is that Giles's objections to the electronic music Buffy uses for her aerobics is an in-joke;  that's actually the overture to the movie version of Jesus Christ, Superstar, and the original theatrical Judas in that was Anthony Stewart Head's big brother, Murray.  So actually that's ASH getting a chance to throw shade on his brother the big West End star.

And, of course, Murray's career would continue to be linked with lyricist Tim Rice, as his biggest success, the #1 hit "One Night in Bangkok", is from Chess, which is Rice working with the guys from ABBA.  (Benny and Björn, the "B" parts of the group.)

Spoiler

Going farther OT, if you'll pardon me, I was shocked to find this version from Aussie satirist Tim Minchin

As not only is Tim better known for his original work than for doing theater, but he's a very vocal (and brilliant) atheist. (See the wickedly sarcastic "Thank You, God".) And, modernization aside, the show is pro-Jesus, after all.

And, as far as the original cast presentation, I can't not post Ian Gillan's version of "Gesthemane":

I mean, Gillan can't hit those high notes any longer (there's a reason Deep Purple haven't attempted "Child in Time" since 2005, after all), but Ted Neeley would have needed a stepladder to even get close.  (No knock on Ted; he's interpreted the part well for 50 years.  But he NEVER had that voice.)

*************************

Back to the episode, it's sad to see all the rape-subtext in the previous episodes (2.02-why are they building a girl?, 2.05-Buffy nearly raped by frat guys, 2.06-Buffy nearly raped by Pirate!Larry, 2.07-Angel implies he raped Drusilla) end up with Jenny getting violated this way.  Riley Lynn was glad Jenny survived the episode (when Eyghon!Jenny kissed Giles, she was worried he would be "infected" as well), but she was sad about the distance between them at the end.

Spoiler

As I wrote above, re another reactor, these people really don't know what show they're watching, do they?  It's nice they're so innocent, I suppose.

I wonder, was Jenny's near-brush with death here intended as the fakeout it works as in the ultimate story?  "Oh, no, she's not just a disposable supporting character, thank God!  I guess she's here for the long haul!  I'm so happy for her and Giles!"  Oy.  It's so painful watching people fall in love with G/J, knowing what's ahead…

*******************

Quote

WILLOW:  It's not Egyptian, it's Etruscan!

And given that the Etruscans were based in (and lent their name to) Tuscany in Italy, it's appropriate the Willow with her ziti-in-Florence fantasy from the "Anywhere but Here" game, should be the one to discover this.  (There's a big Etruscan museum in Fiesole, right outside of Florence, apparently.)

Too bad for the Xander-fans that Ethan wasn't summoning Amy Yip, I suppose.  Maybe in that case, it would have been Research Boy coming through with the knowledge, again.

And too bad for some of us for, er, other reasons…

Of course, there's an obvious reason why Ethan wasn't summoning Amy Yip.  I'm just saying.

Quote

BUFFY (calling as she enters the shop):  Ethan? Ethan? I know everything.

Hmm, going by that nude male mannequin modeled after Michelangelo's "David", I wouldn't say you know everything, Buffy. As I said…

Edited February 4, 2021 by Halting Hex

[Halting Hex]

Because you're never too old to be juvenile…

…what if Giles was known as "Ripper" because of his tendency to cut long and loud farts?

Quote

GILES:  Now on Saturday, it will be vitally important for us to—

GILES's BUTTHOLE:  BRRRRRRAPPPPPPPPPPPPP!

BUFFY (deadpan):  So noted.  (leaves)

JENNY:  That's it, no more liver and onions for you, England.

Giles buries his face in his hands, ashamed.

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

So you mean Rupert Giles, Thomas Sutcliffe, Diedre Page, Philip Henry and Ethan Rayne, all belonged to some Secret Occult FARTernity?.. That could've been an interesting turn of events.

[Halting Hex]

Ew, that pun stinks..

So, Giles is the entertainment, Randall's the conjurer, Ethan and Deirde are the, er, recipients, Philip is the liaison to the Bay City Rollers fan club (that briefcase he had at the beginning?  Samples of the new posters and 8x10 photos, of course!) and Thomas…?

Is he bringing the snacks…or the porn? (Or, possibly, I suppose…both?)

[lembergwatcher]

On 8/8/2021 at 3:25 PM, Halting Hex said:

Is [Thomas] bringing the snacks…or the porn? (Or, possibly, I suppose…both?)

He brings beans for the Ripper!

[Halting Hex]

On 5/8/2019 at 1:59 AM, Halting Hex said:

We know that Angel has a phone and we know the gang knows the number; Giles calls him up to invite him to the Library in Prophecy Girl.

And of course, we just saw Willow urge Giles to call Angel three episodes ago, in Reptile Boy.  So apparently the whole gang knows about how Giles spends his evenings on the phone talking to Angel about "occult research".

(Hey, Giles hadn't had a date in 20 years [pre-Some Assembly Required], we just found out! He's tired of blowing his whole salary on the phone-sex lines! And Angel has been going slow so things don't "get out of control" with Buffy…vampires have needs, too, y'know!)

The Review Crew lads wondered if there was more to Jenny's coldness to Giles at the end than merely the possession…perhaps the fact she never envisioned his dabbling in the occult that way played into it, as well.  (Although Mikey noted that as a technopagan, she shouldn't be that surprised.)

Myself, I think the physical sensation of having your body taken over would be enough to make you cautious about being touched, plus finding out your man has four ex-boyfriends and one them has been hanging out in town might spin you, too.  (No matter how wild you got at Burning Man.)  But JMO.

Spoiler

God, the guys were in agony when Philip turned to goo and Jenny was going to be "infected".  "No, not Ms. Calendar!" "Ms. Calendar's my favorite character!" and so forth.  (I was going to transcribe all of their protests, but I got lazy.)

I do have to wonder if this episode wasn't meant as a test-drive, that Joss had decided Angel needed kill a familiar face (to establish that he's legitimately evil) but he'd gone off of the original plan for Spike to be sacrificed (since offing Spike would be technically a good deed, and besides he liked the "Spike becomes Buffy's secret ally" finale twist) and killing Joyce wouldn't really get you anywhere (you have to bring in Hank and you're not saving any salary), and if you skrag Oz, then if Buffy gets with Xander once Angel and Cordy leave for the spinoff, Willow be all sad and lonely and Joss wasn't sure he wanted that.  (Whereas Giles is a mature adult and can have purpose on the series even if he has to mourn Jenny for a while)

But perhaps Whedon was uncertain if Jenny was important enough to get the desired audience reaction.  Hence this test run.

(I can recall Anne, the 15-year-old Willowesque girl on the "Mark Watches" boards, imagining Joss being a sadistic taunter ["Oh, no, I couldn't kill Jenny…could I?"] to express her relief…while everybody in the comments was using that site's ciphertext convention to worry about how she was going to handle what was to come. [The board had no spoiler font, so they used rot-13, where you swap your letter with one 13 places away in the alphabet, with Buffy becoming "Ohssl" and so forth, to have conversations they wanted to hide from newbies] God, that was like watching a trainwreck in slow motion.)

I guess Joss's "experiment" succeeded.  He realized what Passion  could be.  And we love/hate him for it.

 

Edited July 11 by Halting Hex

[Halting Hex]

You know, Ripper, it's great that you love Jenny and I completely understand your wanting to save her after  you get that vision of her being in danger and I hardly disapprove of your running off towards Ethan's shop (as opposed to the reasons you may have run over toward Ethan's place in the past…)

…but shouldn't you at least close the front door to your flat behind you?  I understand if you don't want to take the time to work the lock (although many apartments have automatic door locks), but let's close the door so we don't have stray animals wandering in, okay?

Spoiler

Is this where Giles's troubles with his door being open in S4-S5 got their start?  Huh.

 

Edited August 25 by Halting Hex

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Doe anyone even knock anymore?