The Honourable Woman - General Discussion

[Guest]

Officially, the US has been 100% pro-Israel and this is never going to change.

 

 

Perhaps I am naive, but i simply do not understand how a political superpower like the US can give unquestionable and irrevocable support to anyone, let alone to Israel. Why would you not want to go back and revise preious decisions (especially if taken by previous administrations)?

On the whole, I am very much with most of you here, in that I think that though the series may not have been 100% politically accurate, it certainly worked brilliantly on a storytelling and characterisation level. The show was beautifully filmed and shot. The casting was superb - MG in particular had me fooled all the way with her British accent. If I'm honest the weeping was getting slightly annoying, but it was to be expected considering the story arc. 

I would have liked slightly slower pacing of MG's change of heart when it came to Kasim. She goes from referring to him as "the boy" to "my son" in the span of 2 episodes. Is this meant to reflect a change in the way she views him? What was it exactly that made her want to reclaim him?

[Milburn Stone]

I think the U.S. policy 100% pro-Israel figure may be a bit of an overstatement. The U.S. has been harshly critical of the never-ending building of new Jewish settlements in the West Bank. (As have many Jews in Israel, for that matter.) The reason the U.S. has been harshly critical is that our government sees this as harmful to the peace process. I believe we're also on the record as favoring a two-state solution, although we've never supported a U.N. vote to make one happen now. So...I wouldn't quibble with a figure of 95%, and for some people this might amount to the same thing, but I can't quite sign on to 100%.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Milburn Stone

[gracory]

Just finished watching this episode Sunday.  Enjoyed the series a lot.  Held my interest from start to finish.  I did find the montage; the secretary of state's statement, and the brief newscast near the end jarring; the first did not seem to belong in this show at all, the last two seemed poorly done.

 

Plot was convoluted for sure.  It was the Israeli group monitoring the phone calls that killed the professor protesting unequal admissions at the school?

 

Was also a little confused exactly why Zahid tried to kill Atika?  Because he decided she might try to return Kasim to Nessa, or help her find him?  Or because Atika could not agree with having Nessa killed; even if someone else carried out the killing?   I took it that Atika developed some feelings for Nessa during their captivity which she had not admitted, even to herself.

 

Don't know much about politics.  Do remember President Clinton was trying to get agreement on a two state solution near the end of his second term. Guess the unbelievable part of this show is the idea U.S. government would back a unilateral declaration by Palestinians of nationhood? Figured the deaths of Nessa & Ephra by an Israeli terrorist group, the govt. of Israel refused to control was meant as an excuse for a policy change the govt. wanted to make anyway.  Might be hard to believe today, but as the ethnic makeup of the U.S. changes, I could see the policy changing.  

 

Do think the show's title, while it could be applied to Atika perhaps, works best when applied to Nessa; though in some ways it might apply ironically.

 

[BigBlueMastiff]

Anyone know who makes the blue yoked blouse, Nessa's assistant was wearing in this ep? I want one.

[tracyhmcd]

Just watching the DVDs now.  I only know Tobias Menzies from his menacing role in Outlander.  I was very impressed with his Nathaniel Bloom and will miss that character. 

[Llywela]

Just watching the DVDs now.  I only know Tobias Menzies from his menacing role in Outlander.  I was very impressed with his Nathaniel Bloom and will miss that character. 

If you get the chance to see him in anything else, go for it - he's always great. He had a good run in HBO's Rome a few years ago, and has been in a bunch of other stuff. :)

[lidarose9]

Sorry to be so tardy, but I recorded this months ago and am just now watching. As to Nessa's motives for keeping Kasim's parentage a secret, I have been assuming it was to keep him safe. She knew he'd be a pawn or a target in some way if people knew how he was conceived. She was determined to keep the whole experience secret so's not to disrupt her and Ephra's plan to redeem their father's "blood money" wealth. She wanted more than anything to keep the foundation's work going AND to protect the child. Keeping secrets was a way to do that, but it made her vulnerable to manipulation in ways that she could never have imagined. This was how I read it. 

[lidarose9]

Again, apologies for a late response. This is what I was thinking about Nessa and Kasim. The end of episode 1, when she sees him being kidnapped, she races out of that building like a bullet, in her fancy clothes, she pulls off her shoes and runs and runs, the look on her face: determined, completely. Not for an instant does she think of the other people around her, noticing her pushing through the crowd. She barrels through the darkness. Not for an instant afraid of being shot herself - only absolute determination to rescue that little boy. To me, that telegraphed instantly, he was her son. 

 

For eight years now, she has taught herself to ignore every motherly instinct with him, to allow Atika to be his mother, in order to protect him. Whatever her reasons for this, I believe she has his best interests at heart. 

 

That has taken a toll. She lives a life divided against herself. And so the safe room. If it wasn't that, it would be booze or drugs. She's been justifying all this in her mind for a long time, believing it was for the greater good. Atika is a loving mother. He lives with Ephra, who is capable of protecting and providing for him. 

 

This show is about people who all believe they're doing what's best (for the most part) as long as it coincides with their own personal ambitions. Everybody's got secret agendas. Nessa has been trying to keep the greater good top of her priorities, no matter what the cost to her personally. I believe we are shown this every episode in the opening credits where we see her staring straight ahead with her father's blood on her face. She is falling apart now cuz she is seeing that all along she is no different than any of the others. 

[lidarose9]

Every one of the main female characters, in her own way, believes she is honourable. The title could refer to any of them. 

[teddysmom]

Since a great deal of entertainment programs regarding Israeli/Palestinian conflict focuses on the Israelis always being the victims, The Honourable Woman tried to be a bit more even handed.   The Palestinians weren't innocents in the story, nor were the Israelis.  Nessa's father was a Zionist.  She was trying to right the wrongs he committed. And Ephra got in over his head trying to get her out of Gaza.  He should have trusted Hayden Hoyle. 

 

The true evil in this story was Monica.  

 

Were there plot holes and craziness?  Yes.   Nessa seems like the Bill Gates of the UK, so how the hell does she go out and get drunk and get picked up by randos and they don't know who she is and the repercussions of beating her up? 

 

I have to give them props for never letting on Atika's true intentions. At least for me,up until she was giving Ephra weird looks when he left to "go run", I never knew she was playing the long con. 

 

TBH, who in their right mind back in 1947 thought "Hey I have a great idea!! Let's force two groups of people who fucking HATE each other to co exist. What could go wrong?" 

[scrb]

So the plan was to kidnap Nessa and then force her brother to do their bidding, which includes misappropriated funds, spying on West Bank communications?

But the Palestinian mastermind throws in rape and killings for good measure?

I thought the early episodes were good, even the abduction of the boy from Royal Albert Hall through Hyde Park. But it turned out to be the plotting of Palestinians kidnapping on UK soil and smuggling him into the West Bank?

And then having a rogue MI6 agent, along with Israeli and American intelligence into the mix?

It's a little too Homelandish or even too much like 24.

In the end, an American operative, with Palestinian cooperation, was going to kill Nessa, a U.K. citizen, and the U.K. Intelligence ends up killing the American and Akita with a drone.

Then Monica, who is expecting to use these rogue operations to rise to the top of UK intelligence, is murdered rather than brought up on charges, presumably by Americans on UK soil.

The mystery unfolded pretty well but unfortunately, plausibility unraveled too.