S11.E04: Auditions #4: Atlanta

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I thought I read a few years ago that everyone is actually required to go through choreography, even those who supposedly get direct passes to Vegas (or wherever it is they go these days after the auditions), and that the distinction between those who are expressly sent to choreography and those who are sent directly through to Vegas (or wherever) is just for show.

Yes, everyone goes to choreography. I am 99% sure they all do that for the producers (as well as their solos) before they do their solos on camera for the jidges so Nigel & co already know who bombed the choreography before they see their solo for the cameras. I remember reading about the order of the audition process in greater detail at TWoP so hopefully whoever posted about it there can confirm this info. Edited June 20, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Mertseger]

 

I thought I read a few years ago that everyone is actually required to go through choreography, even those who supposedly get direct passes to Vegas (or wherever it is they go these days after the auditions), and that the distinction between those who are expressly sent to choreography and those who are sent directly through to Vegas (or wherever) is just for show.

 

Yes, it's fairly common knowledge around here, and, I believe, its mentioned again up-thread as well. (Nothing wrong restating it though: at least half of the fun of these threads is people sharing what they know about the show and dance in general). I think the purpose of the big show of "we're putting you through to choreography" is two-fold. First, they wish to reserve jidgment on the last 5-9 dancers going through in a given city to adjust the mix of styles and make some final decisions of this one over that one in a given style. Second, for the dancers who are focused on and good in a single style, showing the choreo footage allows the audience to see that such individuals might not partner well-enough or learn new choreography quickly enough. Thus, the show can highlight great dancers who would not otherwise work well in the post-Not Vegas episodes.

[luvthepros]

That poster would be me, it is not in his leaps, it is in his pirouettes. And this is very common, so unless you are trained in dance (and maybe slightly overly nitpicky like me) you might not even realise it because most of the people auditioning will have done the same. If you do want to "see it" I would recommend watching how he ends his pirouettes (there is a series of them 3/4s into his audition, and he leans into his right each time and ends the series in a floor move to the right, that is what I mean - it goes well with his choreo stylistically, so maybe it was intended, but most of the time it isn't). Now watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmuQYNO_eRU and look how Jenna holds her pirouette series and how she ends the moves before moving into the next move. Again it might be a stylistic choice but I have seen this with a lot of the people who audition (and compete) on this show (and I see it in my students).

Elle...

I'm not trained in dance but I try to soak everything up when trained dancers post on forums. I'll watch the pirrouettes. Thanks.

Edited June 20, 2014 by luvthepros

[ElleTwoThree]

Yes, everyone goes to choreography. I am 99% sure they all do that for the producers (as well as their solos) before they do their solos on camera for the jidges so Nigel & co already know who bombed the choreography before they see their solo for the cameras. I remember reading about the order of the audition process in greater detail at TWoP so hopefully whoever posted about it there can confirm this info.

 

Everyone who makes it to the jidges got to do choreography when I did it (and by got to, I mean had to). We had a choreo round without the jidges (this is after a couple of days of "improv" and interview faff that filters out the "worthy dancers" from the large amount of people they are not interested in), more whittling it down, then the rest got to do solos in front of the judges (small percentage of the initial auditioners). That was the end for me, I was told that I would advance (and to run and scream with the "ticket" and whatnot) and I left. I don't know if the ones who are sent to choreo actually do another round of choreo... I assume they perform the choreo they had done as a group initially in front of the judges (but don't know if they go over it again). To get the shots of the jidges putting people through at that stage that seems necessary.

 

When I did it no obviously shitty person (like Sex back in the day, remember Sex? He was atrocious!) was there, but I assume those people do not do the choreo, they might be cherry picked on the faff days and asked to come straight to do a terrible solo and be the nation's laughing stock. I can't see how they would make someone do a partner choreo with someone they know is absolutely crap.

 

I obviously only know what happened at my audition and from what I heard others mention in Vegas I'd say that was how it was done that year, but they could have changed that since the show has changed fairly massively since then (I miss the old stage!). 

[TVSallyS]

I just want to make sure I am understanding this. When people said that the "go through to choreography" instructions were "all for show" because all the dancers actually do the choreography *before* doing their solos for Nigel, I initially thought this meant that the dancers were not actually being asked to do any additional dancing after doing their solos for Nigel, but rather we were being shown footage of something that had already happened prior to the solo. But now it sounds like people are saying that the dancers do go on to dance the choreography again in front of Nigel before he announces a final decision. Is that right? The choreography they dance might be a repeat of a routine everyone was already forced to do in front of a different set of producers in order to get sent through to Nigel, but am I correct in understanding that upon Nigel's request, they do still dance choreography again in front of Nigel so Nigel can see it and make the final decision?

I am thinking about the dancers we see, for example, doing a solo for Nigel, getting injured during that solo, and then having to decide whether to drop out or go through with their final choreography performance for Nigel. If no more dancing was actually happening at that point, this entire dilemma would be totally fabricated and they would be relying on the acting skills of non professional actors to help pull off the storyline. If the editors are doing this kind of thing, this is much more artificial to me than if everything starting with the Nigel solo is actually happening in the order we see it. I mean, I always assumed that with thousands of people auditioning there were any number of things (solos, choreography rounds, etc) they were all forced to do for other producers in order to get sent through to Nigel. So the fact that everyone might do choreography for another producer at some point doesn't really make what happens for Nigel after that point "just for show", in my mind, if it really does happen for Nigel in the order we see it. Hope that makes sense. Just want to make sure things aren't as totally phony baloney as I was thinking when I read the initial comments. I am always interested in how these shows edit things differently than they really happen and I love the behind the scenes info!

Edited June 21, 2014 by TVSallyS

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Essentially, a yes to choreo by the jidges means you are not cut - yet.  A ticket means you are through to the next round (Vegas) - you are done, except for the reaction shots or any production needs for putting together packages.  

 

Nigel always, always, always makes decisions based on how it will play to the audience.  If a given decision happens to correlate to actual dance ability?  A bonus.  

[TVSallyS]

"Essentially, a yes to choreo by the jidges means you are not cut - yet. A ticket means you are through to the next round (Vegas) - you are done, except for the reaction shots or any production needs for putting together packages."

Ok..... I certainly understand this, because this is how the show itself explains the process to the viewers. But I am not sure if this answers my primary question - whether the kids "not cut yet" actually dance choreography for Nigel again at that point like the show tells us they do, or whether the show is lying about this. Are you saying they do NOT dance again, and the judges just deliberate further, review old tapes of choreography danced previously for other producers, and come back and give the "not cut yet" kids a final decision? Are you saying they get Nigel to film fake live choreography reaction shots and then edit those into the old footage of the kids dancing choreography for another producer earlier in the process? And that story lines about dancers injuring themselves during a solo for Nigel and then having to decide whether to go on to dance injured for Nigel again in choreography or drop out of the competition at that point are just totally made up? How about dancers we clearly see getting through the Nigel solo round who then decide to voluntarily drop out before doing choreography again to spare their partner? Those are also 100 percent fabricated story lines acted out entirely on the part of the kids upon producer request? How do they find kids who will agree to go through with acting out these fake story lines and at what point in the competition (before or after their successful Nigel solo...) was it actually determined such kids would be leaving the competition (and why?) Do you see my confusion? If they have to fabricate interviews with contestants about how they are going to spare their partners despite a successful Nigel solo, that is more than just tricky editing. That is relying upon non professional actors to provide convincing fake interview footage. And I am not clear on at what point in the sequence of events these kids would actually be officially voluntarily withdrawing and why.....

Sorry if I sound dense and am still missing something obvious here.

[ElleTwoThree]

Again I was not asked to do it and I didn't sit in the audience or stick around after i was told I was being called back for the vegas part. We had all done choreography and a lot of people had been eliminated (very good people among them, much better than me for reasons nobody understood), you do choreo in a large group and then  in smaller groups (like they show, maybe 3-5 couples on stage at a time) and a whole bunch of people sit there and take notes. Some people were excelling at it and others weren't and people got asked to leave independently of that which makes me think that they wrote this down and when you solo'ed if you were good but their note said "not good at choreo" they would have you do choreo again. So they make it look like your solo wasn't strong enough on TV but the reality of it is, they knew you hadn't nailed the choreo so want you to repeat it. Which is why we think "hey that dude was amazing" and they still send them to choreo or the umpteenth girl who does the "reach and stare, HMV and despair" move is sent right through.

 

Another thing they don't show and was a bit of a talking point when I did it was that they turn away a lot of people due to "physical reasons" - so basically heavier set girls and short boys. Those were sent home because they "wouldn't partner well" (even if they partnered just fine in choreo in front of them) and I didn't hear it but in my girlfriend's group apparently a girl was told to lose weight and come back next year, which I thought was unnecessary. We all accepted that because it is a TV show they are looking for a type of people and that at any other audition (for a show, a musical, etc...) you would also be turned down if you don't look the way the producers envision you to look. But obviously that is not how they want to be seen. I always thought Donyelle must have been quite extraordinary to make it through because she was the body type a lot of girls were being turned away for.

 

I am sorry I keep talking about me, I must come across as terribly selfcentred (I might be a little selfcentred... but not usually this bad), I'll stop now!

[Koffee Kup]

I thought I read a few years ago that everyone is actually required to go through choreography, even those who supposedly get direct passes to Vegas (or wherever it is they go these days after the auditions), and that the distinction between those who are expressly sent to choreography and those who are sent directly through to Vegas (or wherever) is just for show.

I went to the taping in Detroit last year and only those that were sent to choreography went to choreography during taping time.  Those that were given a ticket did not.   They may put them through choreography at the next level, but what I saw was pretty much how you see it on TV.

[MizArk]

ElleTwoThree -- I've thoroughly enjoyed reading your experiences behind the scenes! Thanks for sharing. One question -- you said you were invited to go on to Vegas and chose not to do so?

 

I'm enjoying this season very much so far, though I haven't picked a favorite yet. I think the slower pace this season -- 1 show a week as opposed to 2, more abbreviated selection process (little time wasted on bad dancers and attention seekers) -- has been refreshing. I look forward to the competition!

[TVSallyS]

Thanks ElleTwoThree - it sounds like you don't know for sure what happens to the other kids based on your "straight to Vegas" experience, but based on the report of some other people, it sounds like kids sent to choreography really do have to dance choreography for Nigel again at that point. That makes me feel a bit better about the authenticity of what they are telling us is happening.

What sounds slightly inauthentic, of course, is that we aren't being told everything that might be influencing the judges' decision to send people to choreography - that decision could be based on the solo they see plus notes they have from other producers about how the person performed in an earlier round of choreography (ie if they choked the first time but do a fantastic solo, Nigel might feel he still needs to see them try choreography again to make a final decision, no matter how good the solo was). On TV of course it looks like the solo quality is the sole determinant of that decision. But judges having a little more information than we realize based on what has happened up until that point off camera is far from being the worst reality tv sin as far as artificiality, I guess. At least things are not just being totally made up.

[Bella]

@ElleTwoThree - I really appreciate your telling us what you went through and what you know! Please don't think it's too much, it isn't.

 

So here's how I now understand the sequence of events, with auditioners being eliminated at each level:

1. At least one large group choreography round for "screeners" - this is not filmed as it is preliminary
2. At least one small group choreography round for screeners - not filmed and preliminary
3. A filmed, though not necessarily broadcast, solo for Nigel, Mary, and the guest judge du jour, which may result in being sent on with the magic ticket
4. A filmed, though not necessarily broadcast, choreography round in front of Nigel et al, which is the final screening before the Vegas/NotVegas round.

 

Did I get that right, Elle? If not, can you please straighten me out?

 

If I did get that right, it means that the "everyone does choreography" statements we hear refer to the choreography done for the screeners before the contestants see Nigel et al. It does not mean that they all have to do choreography yet again after their solos before Nigel et al.

[ari333]

That Sideshow dude was a hothead, but I do think Nigel was egging him on. I wish folks wouldn't give Nigel his drama shots.  The guy made himself look like a colossal ass with whom no one would want to work. The dude said something off or cray and Nigel said, "What?" just to get the guy to repeat himself. He fell right into it. These dancers who audition should know better than to take Nigel's bait. 

Edited June 21, 2014 by ari333

[ElleTwoThree]

ElleTwoThree -- I've thoroughly enjoyed reading your experiences behind the scenes! Thanks for sharing. One question -- you said you were invited to go on to Vegas and chose not to do so?

 

No, I did go to Vegas. It seemed like a great experience to have (and it was really interesting). I was quite young and maybe part of me did think getting on the show would be ace, but mostly I did it to get the experience. It is great to do some choreography with some of the choreographers on the show. 

 

@ElleTwoThree - I really appreciate your telling us what you went through and what you know! Please don't think it's too much, it isn't.

 

So here's how I now understand the sequence of events, with auditioners being eliminated at each level:

1. At least one large group choreography round for "screeners" - this is not filmed as it is preliminary
2. At least one small group choreography round for screeners - not filmed and preliminary
3. A filmed, though not necessarily broadcast, solo for Nigel, Mary, and the guest judge du jour, which may result in being sent on with the magic ticket
4. A filmed, though not necessarily broadcast, choreography round in front of Nigel et al, which is the final screening before the Vegas/NotVegas round.

 

Did I get that right, Elle? If not, can you please straighten me out?

 

 

Yeah, that sounds right, though before that there is a day or two of "improv" so you go and improvise (though most people do choreography) either to a song chosen randomly by the producers or a capella in front of a bunch of people by yourself. If you got past that they interviewed you a little and then you had another improv session (on another day) this time to a song of their choice and as a group (this part I thought was pure faff, my group was like 90% contemporary dancers and 3 hiphoppers and we kept getting in each others way and some girl decided to do a lengthy floor sequence and it was just idiotic, they eliminated a lot of people at that stage). If you got through that you got to do the choreography round. Then what you wrote happened.

[DanaMB]

 

I wonder if the crew talked with that guy about how he represented them. Do crew have demerits like dance teams?

 

According to the Dragon House FB page, he is no longer part of DH.

[Rick Kitchen]

What do they do when there is an odd number of boys/girls going to choreo?  Do they ask somebody to dance twice?

[romantic idiot]

I'd guess the demonstrators dance in that case?

[ElleTwoThree]

I'd guess the demonstrators dance in that case?

 

Yeah you can see Robert dancing with one of the girls who had a forfeiting partner in the penultimate episode. In Vegas if I recall correctly they might ask someone to do it twice (I feel like that has been shown in the past), though I also do think that at Vegas stage they eliminate people in a way that this imbalance shouldn't happen (though due to injuries it might).

[luvthepros]

Thanks ElleTwoThree - it sounds like you don't know for sure what happens to the other kids based on your "straight to Vegas" experience, but based on the report of some other people, it sounds like kids sent to choreography really do have to dance choreography for Nigel again at that point. That makes me feel a bit better about the authenticity of what they are telling us is happening.

What sounds slightly inauthentic, of course, is that we aren't being told everything that might be influencing the judges' decision to send people to choreography - that decision could be based on the solo they see plus notes they have from other producers about how the person performed in an earlier round of choreography (ie if they choked the first time but do a fantastic solo, Nigel might feel he still needs to see them try choreography again to make a final decision, no matter how good the solo was). On TV of course it looks like the solo quality is the sole determinant of that decision. But judges having a little more information than we realize based on what has happened up until that point off camera is far from being the worst reality tv sin as far as artificiality, I guess. At least things are not just being totally made up.

I don't begrudge Nigel & Co. every edge to make their decisions. They don't want to be totally embarrassed for their choices for the show. It doesn't bother me at all they have more

"notes" go take into consideration.

[NextIteration]

This show is on its 11th season. These auditionees need to know by now that they must take a few lessons in Ballroom to be cast for the show. Most serious auditioners do take a few lessons. For example....although many people insist Benji Schwimmer, season 2 winner, danced as a Ballroom dancer, he was not. He competes in West Coast Swing with is a completely different animal. Anyway....Benji knew he needed to take some Ballroom lessons before he auditioned for the show. He was honest about that and claimed he took a few Latin lessons to understand the technique. Good for him and that was only season two.

 

I understand Nigel's impatience with auditioners who don't take the inititative to get a few lessons in genres other than what they specialize in. This show is all about diversity.

 

His parents' studio taught all forms of ballroom so I'm pretty sure that he had exposure very early on to all of it.  And there were youtube clips of Lacey sucking swamp water at jazz - Benji was horrific at "contemporary".

 

Though I agree - by this stage of the game, anyone who auditions that hasn't bothered to take classes in whatever they aren't trained in, really doesn't have "winning" as a goal.

 

 

On that note, I still don't get why contemporary dancers don't get sent to choreography more. There's nothing inherent in stomping/rolling around on the floor/running/squatting that seems to make up contemporary on this show that would make it easier for such dancers to work with a partner, any more so than a so called "street" style. (I'm showing my bias against contemporary here!)

 

It's ALL about the ability to pick up choreography quickly and partner.

 

 

her pirouette series and how she ends the moves before moving into the next move

 

This.  A million times - she finished every single move perfectly.

 

This week?  I really only like Mariah.  On to notVegas week and the announcement of the Top 20!

Edited June 22, 2014 by NextIteration

[ari333]

According to the Dragon House FB page, he is no longer part of DH.

 

I wonder if Sideshow quit or got bounced; although I'm assuming the latter. His mouthing off on stage was bad enough, but the aggressive chatter as the camera followed him outside was pretty cringe-worthy. I still think Nigel provoked him to a degree;  I wish he hadn't taken the bait.

Edited June 22, 2014 by ari333

[DanaMB]

I believe he was let go. Copied from Bluprint's twitter:

 

@Dance10Bluprint

Sooo we just let go of #Sideshow from #DragonHouse ...

Had to be done... #MovingOn

 

[Jobiska]

First I want to thank TVSallyS for asking the exact questions I had, and ElleTwoThree for answering them and others.  It does make the comment I've seen on several threads that "everybody goes to choreography" a lot clearer.

I really don't like it when people are belligerently, deliberately dense, which is how Sideshow's "yes I DID do original popping!" came across to me.  I was amused and horrified at how quickly his (now former) crew members and even his mom went from cheering him to cringing and making "cut!" motions!  His mom!  Ack!

I don't know a lot about dancing so I appreciate the comments that seem to back up my turning to my son and asking about that one routine, "How is that different from a gymnastics floor exercise?"

I also thought that the guest judge and the handsome young male dancer (Ricky U?) could have played siblings in some TV show!  heart-shaped faces, medium dark hair with stunning light eyes....
 

 I hate seeing hashtags on my screen, but #littlesister is one of the lamest ones I've seen.

 

Ha!  I was saying the same about #dabble.  These make the hashtags I was mocking on this past season of The Amazing Race look Nobel-literature-prizeworthy in comparison!

[EyesGlazed]

Angie seems to have a very strange affect. I don't think she is right for this show due to her strange personality.

I think you're right about her fit with the show, but I enjoyed her personality.  She struck me as someone partly (or mainly?) raised by her brother.  She was not girly at all.  She also seemed genuinely modest and polite.  And clearly a great dancer.  I hope she gets more air time in NotVegas.

 

Mr. Strange did not impress me at all and I was shocked that he got through with no choreo or got through at all. But what do I know.

 

Mariah is beautiful and so is her dancing, imo. We here at the house noticed that every time the lyrics of Mariah's music said, "I am woman" (or whatever it was) that her legs were spread at a 180 or close to it with an HMV.  Once would have been a coincidence. Every time... interesting. [/snerk]

Re Mr. Strange:  Same reaction here!  I was going to call shenanigans on his ticket to NotVegas, then I read Elle's helpful posts and began to believe the judges must know he has some partnering ability.

 

Re Mariah:  I totally noticed that too!  AND that she would grin or make some naughty facial expression to go with the leg-spread.

 

Ricky Ubeda, where have you been all my life?  Beautiful dancer, and very easy on the eyes.  I think/hope he'll make the top 20, unless there's someone who auditioned but didn't get much/any TV time, for whatever reason I can't imagine.

Ricky was dishy also because he seemed more mature than the average 18 yo boy contestant.

 

I watched a clip of Alex Wong's season  on you Tube. I see nobody who appeals to me  like he did in his season as a dancer.

I'm so glad there are others out there who still view Alex Wong as one of the Best Contestants Ever.  I still watch his hip-hop with tWitch on YouTube sometimes for a mood-lightener.  

 

And after viewing this episode I felt a compulsion to watch Amy and FikShun's Viennese waltz on YouTube.  Wanted to be reminded of contestants who had magic together.

[realdancemom]

I'm so glad there are others out there who still view Alex Wong as one of the Best Contestants Ever.  I still watch his hip-hop with tWitch on YouTube sometimes for a mood-lightener.

I still view both Alex Wong's and Danny Tidwell's solos.  I also watched Alex & Twitch's hip-hop so many times.  Eliana's audition solo is another one that I enjoy watching.

 

 

 

Re Mr. Strange:  Same reaction here!  I was going to call shenanigans on his ticket to NotVegas, then I read Elle's helpful posts and began to believe the judges must know he has some partnering ability.

Yes, thank you Elle.  I was wondering why Mr. Strange got a ticket straight through while Fik-shun's friend didn't since both their solos were good.  I didn't know if they just looked at Dynamic's height and figured that he would have trouble partnering.  Now, it makes sense that everyone partnered during preliminary choreography rounds and Dynamic probably did have problems so the judges wanted to see for themselves.  Poor thing couldn't lift his partner.  Fik-shun was short too but he didn't have any problems when he partnered with Jasmine H.

Edited June 24, 2014 by realdancemom

[inmyeyes]

With all the talk about whether hip-hop dancers can pick up choreography, I've been wondering for the past few seasons about where the more commercial hip-hop dancers have been? In recent seasons, we've seen the hip-hop genre being mostly represented by popping and animation... and I think it's mainly because the producers think it makes a better "story" for these "untrained", "street" dancers to be transformed and go on a journey blahblahblah. (Not that we didn't have that plot in earlier seasons with Ivan or Joshua... but it's a stronger storyline when their specialisation is so narrow as something like popping/animation)

 

And while I think most of them are truly great at what they do, I've always felt that a hip-hop dancer who's more involved in the commercial world would fare much better in the competition and have a better chance at winning it. As someone who does the more urban choreography side of hip-hop, I'm aware of so many amazingly talented dancers who have great quality of movement, a pretty solid foundation in hip-hop AND have the ability of picking up choreography in a snap. The dance studios in LA like Debbie Reynolds, Millenium, Movement Lifestyle are teeming with such dancers. Why are they not auditioning??! Or are they auditioning but we just don't see it in the broadcast? 

 

I echo the love for Ricky Ubeda. There was something engaging about his performance and his good looks were a bonus (the banter about "dabble" also endeared him to me). After seeing Angie dance, I was actually really interested in seeing her brother dance. I thought Mr Strange was good but his style and performance (and his look as well) were less "out there" compared to Cyrus and Bluprint and I think maybe that's why he didn't come across as impressively as they did in their auditions. It was nice that Uncle Nigel gave him some kudos for founding Dragonhouse; Sideshow aside, they seem like a really solid group of dancers who support and learn from each other. 

[Mertseger]

 

I don't know a lot about dancing so I appreciate the comments that seem to back up my turning to my son and asking about that one routine, "How is that different from a gymnastics floor exercise?"

 

Apparently, there's a whole circuit of competition dance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_dance) which seems to encourage the incorporation of gymnastic elements. And SYTYCD has featured many people from that world over the years, though, strangely, it has never particularly acknowledged its existence in the way that it has mentioned competitive ballroom occasionally.

[NextIteration]

Apparently, there's a whole circuit of competition dance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_dance) which seems to encourage the incorporation of gymnastic elements. And SYTYCD has featured many people from that world over the years, though, strangely, it has never particularly acknowledged its existence in the way that it has mentioned competitive ballroom occasionally.

 

I haven't paid very close attention since, um, about S5, but Brian Friedman made some rather nasty remarks about "competition dancers" in S2.  Most of the "contemporary" and "jazz" dancers on the show are competitive dancers.

 

And the gymnastics?  The stretching of those rules get worse and worse every year (this is outside of the acro category).  Personally?  It's not dance to me, it's just tricks.

Edited June 25, 2014 by NextIteration

[realdancemom]

I don't like a lot of competition dances.  It seems that it's a bunch of tricks like gymnastics, technique moves that show flexibility like HMVs, with a bunch of turns just to see how many you can do.  There's hardly any dance moves that connect these things and there's no artistry to the dance.  There are exceptions.

[ElleTwoThree]

I don't like a lot of competition dances.  It seems that it's a bunch of tricks like gymnastics, technique moves that show flexibility like HMVs, with a bunch of turns just to see how many you can do.  There's hardly any dance moves that connect these things and there's no artistry to the dance.  There are exceptions.

 

When I was growing up this was a big thing... or maybe it was a big thing because our lives were rather small. I have a very classical training, my mother is foreign and in her mind only "real" ballet would do for her daughters. I was one of those kids you would pity who had to schedule friends in with like a month notice in first grade. I took other styles because they were "required" so we had tap, jazz and modern on the side but all of it was rather dry and strict (think dress code and french lady with a stick teaching). Other girls in our neighbourhood and school went to the "fun" dance studio where you got to do lots of acro and compete and dance to the tunes that were in and some of them would go on to cheer.

We (my teachers, my classmates and my mother in particular) looked down upon these girls a lot. They were not being "taught properly", they "threw their jumps", they were "stretched to be flexible but had no strength in their flexibility", so basically they were taking the "easy route full of prices and trophies" instead of working hard the way we did with absolutely no recognition (which obviously is not true, they work hard as well, really really hard).

Nowadays I try to fight it because their goal is obviously very different from people learning where I learned. We were being shaped into company ballerinas, they weren't. Even the contemporary classes I took were heavily ballet based, you took that "ballet perfection" and moulded and freed it. So I try not to judge competition dancers (and yes, most of the people in SYTYCD are competition dancers because they would be more attracted to a program like this as their career in dance can be boosted in a way that no company dancer's would. If you are a company ballerina you are expected to excel at ballet and ballet only, you don't need to be able to nail a chacha or a hiphop in a week!) but I do unwittingly. I prefer classically trained people (Alex Wong and Chehon), I criticise moves I recognize as being "competition"... but I think for a show choreographer such as Friedman to criticise it is a bit idiotic, as those are the kids who will go for this show and these are the kids that will be "cross trained" the way they want them to be.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I have two main issues with competition dancers:

(1) Many of the studios are just in it for the money and the trophies so they focus on the tricks that win (fouettés à la second, aerials, HMV, back layouts) without teaching proper technique and often at a very young age (seeing a five year old do a back handspring with bent elbows so her head almost gets whacked into the floor makes me so anxious). There is already an inherent risk of injury when you dance or do gymnastics but it's a much greater risk when you are not taught correct technique. I know that not all competition studios are like this but if you watch most dance competitions, you'll see a lot of bad technique.

(2) Because so many competition studios focus on winning, they end up used the same flashy tricks in every routine to the point where they all start to look the same. You could mute the music and have a checklist of all the common tricks while watching the routines. I know each style of dance has a certain look and more common moves but there is a much wider dance vocabulary and variety of moves within other styles than competition contemporary from what I've seen.

From an artistic point of view, I feel like some competition dancers rely on movement to convey emotion rather than connecting to the dancing. For example, anguish is portrayed by reaching the arms out with shaky hands and then flinging the head and hair back. It's no different than pointing their toes or doing a turn. It's body movement without any feeling behind it.

These things are not true of all competition dancers. There are definitely some who have beautiful technique and who connect with the material on an emotional level. But particularly during the audition portion of SYTYCD, we see a lot of typical competition contemporary dancers who are mostly indistinguishable to me.

Edited June 26, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[NextIteration]

but I think for a show choreographer such as Friedman to criticise it is a bit idiotic, as those are the kids who will go for this show and these are the kids that will be "cross trained" the way they want them to be.

 

It was a head scratcher to me because at that point in time, a lot of Brian's bread and butter was based in teaching "competition" dancers (he'd pretty much moved past touring with the likes of Janet Jackson and Britney) and he hadn't started doing other television shows outside of SYTYCD.  And then he went and started The Pulse with Mia.

 

I think there is a wide array of competition studios and I know that where I live there are a number of them that are heavily ballet based - yes, including the Ballet Mistress with a stick for a good 10-12 hours a week. ;)

 

In fact, Jourdan Epstein started at one!

[Lemons]

I liked Angie so much! I feel like she has little chance of making the Top 20 though so now I'm sad.

Which one was Angie?

[ToxicUnicorn]

Because so many competition studios focus on winning, they end up used the same flashy tricks in every routine to the point where they all start to look the same. You could mute the music and have a checklist of all the common tricks while watching the routines.

This seemed especially true in this audition episode and it seems as though the legs spread apart, almost squatting position has been added to the checklist.  I see that it requires a lot of strength, but I find that position ugly.  Also, so many HMVs!  Although - they all seemed better than S1 Melody's.

 

I loved Ricky and Silky as well.  I liked Mr. Strange and one of the girls tonight, too.  

 

A lot of the hip hop looked dated to me.  And I'm afraid I didn't even watch the groups that Bieber introduced.  Sorry, guys.  I have to cut somewhere.

Edited June 26, 2014 by ToxicUnicorn

[inmyeyes]

 

A lot of the hip hop looked dated to me.  And I'm afraid I didn't even watch the groups that Bieber introduced.

 

I love hip-hop and even I fast-forwarded. The whole segment is just a fail: the inclusion of Bieber, hardly getting to see the actual dancing, and using Twitter to vote. And there are so many crews out there yet ABCD crews are being recycled. I'm just bored by the whole thing.

 

Re: competition dancing

In general, I think the nature of competition (and the desire to win) inevitably affects the artistic nature of dance. It's the same situation, IMO, in the hip-hop competition scene for crews. You see a lot of stunts, moves designed to impress, clean & sharp moves to the point of taking away of the soul of the movement. Some crews manage to balance the competition with artistry but to me, they're the exception rather than the norm, which is why I'm generally bored by competition hip-hop.

 

That said, I also think that how emotionall connected a dancer is to the material he/she is doing is really a reflection of their maturity more than anything else. In all genres, I think that ability to tap on one's own emotions/experiences to bring a dance to life is something that can't be taught and it has to come from an authentic place. I do wish they would cast "older" dancers (in their 20s) because I feel like some of the 18 year-olds just aren't emotionally ready yet and some life experience would elevate their dancing.

[luvthepros]

.....they were "stretched to be flexible but had no strength in their flexibility"......

I'm enthralled with Ricky Ubeda this season. I'm not a trained dancer so I don't know if techniques are executed incorrectly.....certainly don't have the eye of a trained dancer. I value your comments as I see you have formal dance training. In your opinion, does Ricky fall into that category of dancer who, as you stated, "they were stretched to be flexible but had no strength in their flexibility"? From what I can see, Ricky has extreme extensions, like a ballet dancer but does he appear to have no strength in his flexibility?

[ToxicUnicorn]

I also loved Ricky a lot.  When I saw him, I thought, "That's it, I don't have to look any farther, he is going to be my favorite."  He made me think of Jakob (Karr), who I admired so much - except that I connected even more to Ricky, emotionally.  I would also love to hear people talk about peoples' technique.

 

ETA: I'd also like to add my thanks to ElleTwoThree.  I, too, was very confused about the true audition process.

Edited June 27, 2014 by ToxicUnicorn

[Cuatro1234]

 

I also loved Ricky a lot.  When I saw him, I thought, "That's it, I don't have to look any farther, he is going to be my favorite."  He made me think of Jakob (Karr), who I admired so much

 

 

 

Yes, Toxic Unicorn, I couldn't agree more.  Jakob is my all-time favorite.  But there is something more about his subtle humor and self-effacing personality, as well as how supportive he was of his partner Ashleigh, that made me love him more than I love Ricky (at least so far).

[NextIteration]

it seems as though the legs spread apart, almost squatting position has been added to the checklist. 

 

Snerk, I noticed this as well.  My lass is in college now so I didn't attend any competitions this year, but I saw this one coming the last year or two before she departed the circuit.