Season 2 Discussion

[tessaray]

Season 2 discussion of Ronald D. Moore's (Outlander, Battlestar Galactica) show on Apple's streaming service.  The show imagines an alternate universe where the space race never ended.  

[theschnauzers]

I don’t have the link handy, but RL NASA appointed its first ever female flight director this past week.

Edited April 26, 2020 by theschnauzers

[paulvdb]

Season 2 teaser:

 

[marinw]

Any relese date? I bought a new iMac in January and my free year  of Apple+ will be over by 2021!

I loved season one, as I am a sucker for a good AU.

Edited July 26, 2020 by marinw

[ahisma]

Here are all the ComicCon@Home virtual panel interviews: the women astronauts, the Jamestown episodes interview, and the characters in season 2. 
https://www.comic-con.org/cciathome/2020/video/bnZjxBGr2fU

[theschnauzers]

There’s nothing so far, although season one dropped in November2019, and they had already gotten a season 2 order by then. They might have been able to finish principal photography before the COVID19 shutdown, and have been in post production. Likely an autumn release date.

[paulvdb]

Season 2 premiers February 19 with new episodes becoming available every Friday. The linked article also has some casting news and mentions that the new season is set in 1983.

[paulvdb]

Apple TV+ Announces Early Season Three Renewal for "For All Mankind"

[marinw]

37 minutes ago, paulvdb said:

Apple TV+ Announces Early Season Three Renewal for "For All Mankind"

Excellent. I am interested in seeing their version of the 21st Century.

[xaxat]

Oops, just realized that's not the video I meant to post. Here's a preview of season two. Slightly spoilerish.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by xaxat

[marinw]

Just saw the first ep of season 2. A little slow in places but really good. I love a good alternate reality that feels very real. So Regan beat Carter in '76, Charles marries Camilla instead of Diana, John Lennon lives and the Pope dies, there is something called "D Mail." and electric cars are around. 

Oh, Molly.

ETA: How did they manage the bit with Johnny Carlsen?

Edited February 20, 2021 by marinw

[kieyra]

Ron Moore was on the only professional TV podcast I can still find (TV’s Top Five), pushing season 2, and when some of the cast members were mentioned (I.e., Joel Kinnaman), I decided to check the show out. I think I also wasn’t aware of the alt history aspect. Just got done with the pilot. 

I’m not a huge “space program” buff, just familiar with the history and the main films: the right stuff, Apollo 13. Watched Astronaut Wives Club (think I am skewering the name). So: I know the main players and broad strokes, but I’m not always 100% sure if a given character is a real historical character or made up for the show (have had to google a few times). 

They got me with the ending—I was sure the first landing was a goner, did NOT see it coming when they re-established communication. I felt stuff. 

Some things seemed a little tonally weird to me, probably based on nothing other than the other astronaut pop culture I have consumed. I got chills when they were racing the Corvettes early on, but probably any scene with people racing vintage Corvettes would have done the same thing to me. But later in the bar, I wasn’t buying that they would all be singing along to that particular song. It was like half a step too far. Ditto with (Ed?) spilling his guts to the reporter. These both seemed out of character for “astronauts”. 

I’m not clear on who Boss Lady Astronaut Wife was, but when it looked like the landing crew was dead and she was organizing support groups, she seemed just a little too perky and smiley. I get that the wives had responsibilities (in terms of supporting each other and dealing with the press), but she was awfully blasé about it. Just the actress’s facial expressions. 

Interested for now and will keep watching. 

[xaxat]

1 hour ago, kieyra said:

but I’m too busy laughing about that teaser scene at the end with the plutonium ship launching from underwater. 

I was skeptical at first as well (as can be seen in an upthread comment), but the spaceship shown in that scene is based on a very real sixties proposal for a giant craft called the Sea Dragon.

And in this alternate history, the real life cost and engineering challenges would have almost certainly been overcome. The plutonium was for Jamestown's reactor and plutonium has been used to power spacecraft instrumentation for decades.

On 2/19/2021 at 6:47 PM, marinw said:

Oh, Molly.

I thought the same thing.

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

It was funny that the big royal wedding was Charles marrying Camilla. How would that have worked out if she was nearing the tail end of her child-bearing years? Charles would have still needed to produce an heir (and a spare). Maybe in the alternate universe she was younger, hah hah.

That solar storm thing was scary. Couldn't that happen today? Technology is probably better built now to sustain solar activity though.

Molly risking her own life to save her buddy was amazing. Especially since she knew he was pretty much dead and now she's been overexposed to radiation.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Joimiaroxeu

[marinw]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Technology is probably better built now to sustain solar activity though.

Not sure about that, in our reality our physical and electronic infrastructure is  pretty vulnrable to all sorts of things such as cyber attacks and climate change, so I'm not sure how well we would endure a massive solar storm. If anyone on this very small forum knows more about solar storms pleasre correct me.

Edited February 22, 2021 by marinw

[xaxat]

The show portrayed a super-sized fictional presentation of a solar coronal mass ejection. And they do present the hazards seen on the show.

Quote

Astronauts in low-Earth orbit are mostly protected by the magnetosphere, but do receive higher doses of radiation than people on the ground, especially near the magnetic poles of Earth. The greatest radiation danger would be to astronauts who participate in exploration of the Moon and Mars. The astronauts would be located far outside the protection of Earth's shields, where the effect from a CME-driven shock wave can bombard them with as much radiation as 300,000 chest X-rays at once! It would take only 45,000 simultaneous chest x-rays to kill you.

 

[Goldfish77]

I love how much more quickly technology advanced because of the bigger emphasis put on the space program by the government and military and that is not all that far-fetched.   It seems like the all of the plans NASA had to abandon like launching and landing Shuttles in Florida and California came true in this alternative reality.

Also, I have to add that we have been forced to watch hockey games on a fox sports ap since Hulu does not carry our local fox sports channel anymore and they rotate 5 or 6 commercials during a game and my wife and I recite the commercials like they did with the Bob Newhart show on the first Jamestown.

[marinw]

Just finished Episode 2. A couple of questions:

Don't Molly and Ellen have to quarentine after returning from the Moon? 

I sorta understand why Ed might think that sending Gordo back to Jamestown would totally cure his PTSD. But Gordo obviously isn't up to it mentally or phyically. Does the Flight Surgoen have veto power over the flight crew selection?

Edited February 27, 2021 by marinw

[CarpeFelis]

Ed may think he’s doing what’s best for Gordo, but I just can’t see him sobering up, getting his ass back in shape, and mentally preparing himself to go back up.

Tracy, OTOH, while she may be too busy with publicity, is demonstrating that living well is the best revenge. And I agree with her about Gordo and the Cape cookies.

The writers messed up. Larry complained that he asked for a raise but Boeing only reviewed salaries annually in December. I’ve been a Boeing engineer since 1980 and this was wrong on two counts. First, in the ‘80s they were still doing salary reviews twice a year and neither was in December, it was in the spring and fall. Second, the engineers had (and still do today) a union contract specifying when the reviews are, so if Larry was working for Boeing he would have known you can’t just negotiate a raise with your boss. It just doesn’t work that way.

[xaxat]

21 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Ed may think he’s doing what’s best for Gordo, but I just can’t see him sobering up, getting his ass back in shape, and mentally preparing himself to go back up.

That really didn't make any sense. The astronaut community is a small one and I'm sure everyone (including the ascans) know he has a drinking problem. And yet he got a ride that he didn't even ask for. Hard to reconcile the Ed who was perceptive enough to know what Molly did on the moon with the one who made that call. There was a least one ascan who wasn't happy with the decision. I wonder if it is going to blow up in Ed's face.

I do like how they kept the camaraderie between the earlier astronauts. ("Hi Bob! Made me laugh.) Looks like the Soviets are going to get control of the Panama Canal. That's not going to be good for world peace.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

Once she got back to Earth why weren't they able to detect that Molly had been overexposed to radiation? Is there not some kind of medical testing for that?

Was there a reason Ellen couldn't sit at the conference table during her first meeting as a deputy administrator? Was it a rank thing?

So are Gordo and Tracy going to end up on the moon at the same time? Assuming Gordo makes it up there again. Doesn't seem likely unless he gets an amazing new lease on life.

[marinw]

The pacing of the episode 3 was so weird-was too long on the Naval Academy Drama at the expense of the Russian Spying intrque. Guns on the Moon! What can possibly go wrong? 

Hope Margo can spring back into mentorship mode with Aleida, but that much bad attitude is hard to correct.

The actors not ageing bugs, but this is standard for this type of show.

So glad Gordo is starting to get his sh*t together, Tracy is being an entitled brat.

I am comparing this show to The Expanse. Not as good, but I do respect how attention is paid to scientific and technological accuracy. Love the 1980’s laptops. And I am weirdly down with some of the 80’s fashion

Edited March 6, 2021 by marinw

[theschnauzers]

For All Mankind is not based on a preexisting source material, which may have something to do with it, although RDM and the EP have planned future seasons, and my guess is that the Naval Academy storyline is most likely related to that, just as the Margo storyline from season one had a payoff in this episode as well.

The Expanse is based on a series of novels and novellas written by James S.A. Corey (actually two authors both of whom are involved as executive producers and Ty Frenck is involved in the writer’s room. So it has a more cohesive feel, recognizing that 95 percent of the material isn’t in the series. (Just as an aside, Ty and the actor who plays Amos launched a podcast with season five, but have now gone back to the beginning of The Expanse with  weekly podcast posted on You Tube in the Ty and That Other Guy channel looking at not just the episodes but the behind the scenes and the sources that influenced both the books and the series. Really good listen!

[CarpeFelis]

Totally agree they spent way too much time on the Annapolis storyline, but I was impressed with how Karen stood up to Ed.

Has it ever been mentioned how old Kelly was when they adopted her? It seems like it’s only been 10 years since Shane died, there was no sign of her before this season as far as I recall, and she’s already ready to graduate from high school.

Tracy was being a huge brat. She seriously thinks she can tell Ed who to send on missions?! Especially when she herself has been showing up late to work with hangovers and crappy excuses? Hell, would she have tried to pull that little tantrum with Deke Slayton if he were still around? 

I’m only surprised that she still looks great. It seems like she’s been doing as much drinking as Gordo but it seems to have taken much more of a toll on him physically.

[marinw]

13 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

I'm only surprised that she still looks great. It seems like she’s been doing as much drinking as Gordo but it seems to have taken much more of a toll on him physically.

At this point I'm routing for Gordo, who has acknowledged that he has a problem and is working on getting himself back into shape. and mission-ready. I do hope he is getting some councelling or something, but this version of the 80's seems to have the same stigma around mental health issues as our own 1980's.

I'm waiting for President Reagan to order the creation of a Space Force. That seems like something he would do with a Moon Base and Russians.

Edited March 7, 2021 by marinw

[juno]

10 hours ago, marinw said:

At this point I'm routing for Gordo, who has acknowledged that he has a problem and is working on getting himself back into shape. and mission-ready. I do hope he is getting some councelling or something, but this version of the 80's seems to have the same stigma around mental health issues as our own 1980's.

I'm waiting for President Reagan to order the creation of a Space Force. That seems like something he would do with a Moon Base and Russians.

I am rooting for him also and I loved how he told off Tracy and took the keys from her. I also enjoyed Ed telling Tracy off as well and I am surprised she wasn't grounded as he threatened due to her attitude and her work ethic. Maybe some PR related reasons they keep her.

The fight with Ed and Karen was very powerful. Getting to Ed's emotional core was very emotional and answers questions as to why he never went up again.

Guns in space? I want Moonraker laser guns!!!

[xaxat]

On 3/6/2021 at 9:27 AM, marinw said:

The pacing of the episode 3 was so weird-was too long on the Naval Academy Drama at the expense of the Russian Spying intrque.

Agreed. Everything felt too compressed. They packed a lot of stuff in the last episode and a half. Only a handful of days elapsed between Tracy eating with the family, to Gordo being reinstated, to the Annapolis stuff. Not to mention Margo's job offer and the bug hunt on the moon. 

Ed's decision to send Gordo back to the moon looks worse and worse. I understand his motivation to help his friend, but Gordo looks like he has a drinking problem and the last time he was on the moon he had a mental break. Ed needs a boss, or assistant to tell him no.

I'm not a fan of the family drama aspects of the show. I prefer the alternative history/politic/science premise of the show.

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

"No one said anything about sending weapons to the moon." Wasn't that inevitable once the US and the Russians were competing up there?

Sending the Marines to the moon. I love it. That needs to be a new spinoff on CBS, lol. SMEALs. (The M stands for Moon. 😉)

Kinda looking like Tracy might not make her mission due to excessive partying. How can she be physically fit drinking like that? At this rate Gordo will be in better shape than her, or she'll just DWI herself out of commission.

I'm surprised they hadn't swept the moonbase for bugs long before nine years had passed. Seems kind of naive not to have thought the Russians would do something like plant bugs. (Though apparently there's a theory that it was planted more recently by one of the astronauts who may be a mole for the Russians due to blackmail.)

[marinw]

So who else has a Moon Base? Canada? China?  Europe? I think the Canadians would camp out in Jamestown and the Chinese with the Russians, Europeans depending on the country.

 

[xaxat]

15 minutes ago, marinw said:

So who else has a Moon Base? Canada? China?  Europe? I think the Canadians would camp out in Jamestown and the Chinese with the Russians, Europeans depending on the country.

 

NASA and the ESA (European Space Agency) have teamed up. The observer who spotted the solar flare and Wubo wore ESA patches and European flags. Even in this alternative timeline, I think China would be a ways away from the technology needed for crewed spaceflight.

[paulvdb]

For those interested: in real life Wubbo Ockels was the first Dutch astronaut in October 1985 on the space shuttle Challenger.

[xaxat]

23 hours ago, marinw said:

I think the Canadians would camp out in Jamestown and the Chinese with the Russians

Good call. Today in real life, Russia turns away from NASA, says it will work with China on a Moon base.

[marinw]

Poor Danielle, she is being pulled in a bunch of different diections. 

Americans and Russians can't shake hands on the Moon? I hope this AU has the fall of the Berlin Wall, it would so interesting to see how that would play out.

Pathfinder is pretty! I wonder what any proto-Musks are up to in spaceship design. It this show is renewed, I could see such a person or company beating NASA to Mars, and Ellen bailing on NASA to join them.

Speaking of Ellen, I wonder where this world is in terms of gay rights and recognition. Ellen and her husband are still very much is the closet. Ellen probably decided to stay home and not go clubbing because she still needs to be carefull.

So Gordo is getting (or had gotten) some help for his PTSD. But in both the case of Gordo and Ed, where is the flight surgeon? Does anybody at NASA besides Ed have final veto power?

Molly is my favourite astronaut at this point. Hope she's ok. I can see her scrubbing Gordo beacuse she didn't make the initial decsion to put him back on active duty.

Edited March 13, 2021 by marinw

[CarpeFelis]

7 hours ago, marinw said:

 It this show is renewed, I could see such a person or company beating NASA to Mars, and Ellen bailing on NASA to join 

It’s already been renewed for season 3.

[theschnauzers]

There was historically an Apollo-Soyuz joint mission in our reality, before the space shuttle and the international space station was ever launched.

[Goldfish77]

3 hours ago, theschnauzers said:

There was historically an Apollo-Soyuz joint mission in our reality, before the space shuttle and the international space station was ever launched.

It was Deke Slayton's only space mission

 

[xaxat]

This show's writing is so inconsistent. I thought the scene with Ellen and Tom Paine (who had a real life counterpart) was really well done. He did a really good job of mentoring her about the politics of the job and the fact that he knows what life in the closet does to someone. I also thought he was right when he called Ed out on all of the BS he pulled. They made him a compelling character this episode.

On the other hand, we had the Danielle plot. It felt so clumsy and was wrapped up far to easily. It was like the writers felt they had to deal with racism and decided to get it out of the way as quick as possible.

Ed's tirade against Gordo felt strange. You would think that his familiarity with Danielle and her husband would make him realize that Gordo might be suffering from a form of PTSD. And pulling a Patton is not a magic wand. 

Karen's bar is filthy if they have that many ants. And hard pass on any affair with Gordo's son.

I laughed when Margo took a shot a Soviet technology when she said that they were still flying Soyuz. Because the Russians are still flying Soyuz.

Edited March 15, 2021 by xaxat

[theschnauzers]

Regarding PTSD. It wasn’t recognized as a medical condition as such until the first Gulf War (Hoessein’s invasion of Kuwait), so in the AT of the show, one can presumably think it hadn’t be recognized as such either. So what Ed did with Gordo, to get him out of it, wasn’t out of line for the time.

[marinw]

16 hours ago, theschnauzers said:

Regarding PTSD. It wasn’t recognized as a medical condition as such until the first Gulf War (Hoessein’s invasion of Kuwait),

CMIIW, but I think PTSD was recognized as far back as the Vietnam. If the FAM Verse is like the Watchmen Verse and the Vietnam war didn't happen or wasn't as big, then poor Gordo would not have been diagnosed with PTSD. FWIW, in the World Wars what we identify as PTSD was known as "Shell Shock" or something.

Agian, if anyone here is more expert on this topic then please correct me!

Edited March 15, 2021 by marinw

[marinw]

"I heard you moved to the Moon"

"I bought a condo there."

Tracy would like her own Moon Condo. A Super Rich person could make that happen. In the meantime, get Tracy some earplugs.

Karen, I know you are pissed at Ed, but spoiling The Wrath of Khan was low.

There gores Molly's perfect vision. Or is it a radiation thing?

[xaxat]

I kind of like what they are doing exploring the mythology of being an astronaut. The early astronauts remember it as a wild frontier, but over time has become more routine. As Tracy is finding out.

I hope Gordo figures out he's no longer fit to be an astronaut. I liked his talk with his sons. I think the show made a mistake of having Danielle's husband a sufferer of PTSD. Because his downward spiral provides an in universe example of how difficult it can be to help those people. Stern talks and stronger personal discipline are not solutions. I might be more accepting of the Gordo plot if we didn't have a character where intervention failed.

Do we know who Sam, Tracy's fiancée is? Was he in the first season?

It's understandable, knowing what they don't know. But it still sucks that Jamestown is still using Danielle's accident as an object lesson nine years later.

[CarpeFelis]

On 3/19/2021 at 4:33 PM, marinw said:

"I heard you moved to the Moon"

"I bought a condo there."

Tracy would like her own Moon Condo. A Super Rich person could make that happen. In the meantime, get Tracy some earplugs.

Karen, I know you are pissed at Ed, but spoiling The Wrath of Khan was low.

There gores Molly's perfect vision. Or is it a radiation thing?

Wow, is Karen the queen of passive aggressiveness or what? First she heads off to work really early. Then later she tells Ed she’s already seen the movie and then spoils the ending. If he hasn’t figured out she’s pissed at him he’s incredibly dense.

I really, really hope they aren’t leading up to her having an affair with Gordo’s son.

Speaking of Gordo, while he is struggling, he really seems to be putting in more of an effort than Tracy is with all the workouts and attempts to get over his space suit claustrophobia. The effects of the drinking are starting to show on Tracy (and wtf is she thinking, drinking enough to have a hangover while she’s up there?), while he’s tossed his booze out. I did kind of enjoy that the guy who chewed her out about it is Lip’s buddy from the motorcycle repair shop on Shameless.

I did feel just a little bit bad for Tracy though. With her celebrity starus and Carson interviews, she was kind of set up from the beginning to be resented by everyone else. Comments about “the queen” and putting an astronaut Barbie in her bunk... OTOH, she could have made more of an effort (make that ANY effort) to be accepted.

I assumed Molly’s vision problem indicated the effects of the radiation were starting to show up. She was absolutely awesome BTW in the scene where she yelled at Ed and Gordo and then told off Margo and Paine.

[marinw]

8 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

I really, really hope they aren’t leading up to her having an affair with Gordo’s son.

No. Just no. *shudders*

So in this AU was The Wrath of Khan realesed a bit later than 1982? 

Tracy does have a lot of adjusting to do. If being an attractive lady astronuat is what she is banking on, then she is not the only one. I do think she is on the the verge of shaping up, I thought the Commander showed good leadership there. I bet Rracy is looking forward to Gordo being the new Linus.

[marinw]

I am waiting to see if and how the FAM Universe has a Challenger Disaster. Maybe the Pathfinder is the Challenger of this Universe😶😲

[CarpeFelis]

Loved Gordo’s talk with Sam (who we finally got to meet). I don’t know if he’ll get Tracy back, but he looks like his fitness regimen is paying off.

I’m glad we finally got the story of Kelly’s adoption.

LOL’d at “Soyuz-Apollo”. OK, comrade... But at least without the “babysitter” around they got to work together and figure out the docking system.

Poor Laika!

[theschnauzers]

Something I noticed in the end credits at the end of this episode. One role cast was that of Sally Ride. Make what you will of that.

[marinw]

15 hours ago, theschnauzers said:

One role cast was that of Sally Ride.

I thought PathFinder Crewmember bore quite a resemblance to Sally Ride.

I didn't quite get why you would launch a rocket from the ocean. It would cause quite a lot a pollution.

I liked the Russian-American drama too, and how they attempted to circumnavigate the Cold War Tension (sort of) by relating to each other as engineers and cosmonauts/astronauts.

Edited March 28, 2021 by marinw

[CarpeFelis]

8 hours ago, theschnauzers said:

Something I noticed in the end credits at the end of this episode. One role cast was that of Sally Ride. Make what you will of that.

Sally Ride first appeared in last week’s episode. She’s on Pathfinder with Ed and Piscotty.

[xaxat]

12 hours ago, marinw said:

I liked the Russian-American drama too, and how they attempted to circumnavigate the Cold War Tension (sort of) my relating to each other as engineers and cosmonauts/astronauts.

It appears the writers did research on the history of NASA and have woven some of it into their story. Does anyone know if the negotiations we saw in this episode were based on the real life Apollo/Soyuz?

Glad to see Gordo getting his act together. But "winning back" Tracy while they are literally sealed in a metal can with no privacy seems like a very bad idea. And I actually agreed with Sam. (Although it looks like the show is setting him up for success.)

Edited March 28, 2021 by xaxat

[theschnauzers]

Quote

 didn't quite get why you would launch a rocket from the ocean. It would cause quite a lot a pollution

IIRC, IRL, this was being explored as a means to send larger and thus heavier payloads, including nuclear fuels, into space. The concern was the excessive heat being generated at launch. As to pollution, most rockets were using oxygen and hydrogen. The boosters themselves were not fueled by fissionable material.