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Polyplatonically Talking Polyamory: General Lifestyle Discussion

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Want to discuss the lifestyle? Have questions about the religious background or the faux spiritual background (Can I put a bindi on you)?  Have info to share on your polyamorist or polygamist past or present?  Thinking about shopping for a sister wife or brother husband?  This is the place to post. 

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18 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Thanks, Princess!   I guess I will start this off with an interesting tidbit that will be HUGELY disliked by the posters here, lol.

Here is the thing about polygamy.   I must have heard monogamous married women say a THOUSAND times on message boards and forums that they could not/would not share THEIR husband.

If you want to understand polygamy you need to know that a wife does NOT own her husband.  He is his own entity - he belongs only to God.  Slavery was abolished over a century and a half ago in the United States and we cannot "own" a person, even if we have a marriage license and have been joined.  They are partners in life, parents to future children, hopefully friends, helpmates- but he is not hers and she is not his.  Yes, I know that in the past women were considered their husband's property.  I am only explaining how it is in CURRENT times.

His penis doesn't belong to his wife, it is his.  This doesn't mean he can go put it wherever he chooses, but if you belong to religions that believe in polygamy, it IS acceptable for him to take multiple wives so long as he can provide for them and any children that result from the marriages.

The wife is not "sharing" her husband.  The wife has her OWN relationship with him, the subsequent wives have THEIR own relationships with him and the wives have their own relationships with each other.  But not at any point is any of the wives "sharing" him with each other.  You can only "share" something that you possess, which belongs to you.  

Simply being the first wife and having your name on the license doesn't mean the husband is YOUR husband, as in possessive.   Likewise being the second wife doesn't mean she is now sharing HER husband when and if a third wife comes along.  

Please understand that I am only trying to explain this concept.   I left this life behind a long time ago and personally don't even like men too much so I am certainly NOT trying to justify any personal beliefs here!  (So don't roast the messenger, but feel free to snark all you want!)  😄

Edited by Kyanight
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Rant coming & has nothing to do with you @Kyanight !

Of course no one "owns" anyone, & they certainly are sharing. No one gets unlimited time with any spouse, but when there are several 'wives' there is less & less time to spend together, hence - sharing time. In my mind at least, that is what makes sense. What we see on TV is them filming together, but the reality is that between several wives & children there can't be much time to spend with anyone. And while I'm at it it's perfectly okay in their beliefs for the man to share his penis with several 'wives', but - what did Kody Brown say - it's repulsive ? or some other strong language, if the woman were to share her vagina with other men, ahem, husbands. So does the husband own his wives' vaginas? It certainly seems like, in these relationships, the husband is the king, & his wives are to keep sweet & make sure he damn well knows he's the king. But screw the women & their needs for time & attention (not to mention the bunches of kids they have). It's most definitely all about him & I find that quite- repulsive.

Honestly, not one of the women in these shows seems happy to me - some are just better amateur actors than others (and others are just famewhores - i.e. the Snowdens). It's also quite telling that a bunch of these asshole men are suddenly "called" to this life only after marrying wife #1 (& often after at least one child is in the picture), & that many of the wife #1's end up leaving at some point. 

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When most of us get married we make a promise to be faithful to each other. That means we promise to not have sex with other people. That doesn’t mean we own each other, it means we made a specific promise or agreement. If a man and woman enter into a polygamist relationship she is sharing a husband in that he is also fulfilling a romantic and familiar relationship with other people. You don’t have to own something to share it.

Students in a classroom share a teacher-they don’t own the teacher. Players on a sports team share a coach. A congregation shares a pastor or priest. Parents share custody of their children. I can think of many examples of sharing not implying ownership.

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The problem for me with polygamy is that it is not about equality. The wife never seems to have equal rights, respect, dignity to her husband. She's sharing him; he is not sharing her. Even with Kody "I'm so progressive" Brown, we've seen him say he's disgusted by the idea that his wives might sleep with someone else (or each other), that he is the definitive leader and he will make the final decisions (like the current move), that he must be the center of all attention.

I want a marriage and not a monarchy, and I imagine most other women do too, or should at least.

Furthermore, I've seen the four women he's married to all have to bite their tongue and hold back their feelings of loneliness, jealousy, insecurity, anger and frustration time and time again--and that's just the sanitized "polygamy is great" version for the cameras. Every interaction or action requires and entails a ton more emotional labor and work  than a relationship between just two people does.  The rewards of living that way (for the women) seem very scant. So unless you're VERY religious, which I wouldn't assume any of these TV polyg families are, and really truly believe in the afterlife...this is a lot of misery you're CHOOSING to endure here and now. That's baffling to me.

I do keep watching this shows in horrified fashion, wondering if we'll see anyone who seems to be truly happy and that it truly is working for.  But haven't yet (even the Alldredges who seem the happiest on camera have a forgotten first wife they don't talk about). I did also watch Showtime's series Polygamy and those generally had open marriage type families where both spouses had multiple relationships. No one seemed all that happy there either and it was even MORE work to juggle all those people and their wants and needs and fears. 

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1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

When most of us get married we make a promise to be faithful to each other. That means we promise to not have sex with other people. That doesn’t mean we own each other, it means we made a specific promise or agreement. If a man and woman enter into a polygamist relationship she is sharing a husband in that he is also fulfilling a romantic and familiar relationship with other people. You don’t have to own something to share it.

Students in a classroom share a teacher-they don’t own the teacher. Players on a sports team share a coach. A congregation shares a pastor or priest. Parents share custody of their children. I can think of many examples of sharing not implying ownership.

In a monogamous marriage that's exactly what the promise means. (Although TONS of people cheat on their spouses.)  But we are discussing polygamy here.

I guess I could have been more explicit.  Sharing HIS dick, which the wife seems to assume ownership of upon marriage, when it comes to sex.

Your examples of sharing are interesting.  And although someone might get jealous of the time one of your examples (teacher/coach/pastor) spends with others, there isn't jealousy of their role in other's lives.  If a teacher stops at another student's desk to give some help with math, for example.  Or a coach who helps one of the team members with his pitching.  If someone is jealous of this time spent with others it is deemed inappropriate because there is no reason to be jealous.  Each person hopefully gets the attention needed to be successful.

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I still don’t think making a promise to not have sex with others means you own a persons genitals. Also I think if someone is assuming a particular role with you and another person or persons you are indeed sharing that person whether it is a shared spouse, parent, friend or anything else. The word sharing doesn’t necessarily imply ownship. 

You are talking about polygamist wives sharing a man’s penis but they are also sharing a confidant, co-parent, romantic, intellectual and comforting companion. Lots of people believe in having sex with multiple people without promises being made. However being married whether you are polygamist or not is entering into a promise and for polygamists that promise includes sharing or splitting your love and devotion among your wives. I’m sure ownership comes in when the husbands feel they own their wives but I don’t see it the other way around.

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1 minute ago, Madding crowd said:

I still don’t think making a promise to not have sex with others means you own a persons genitals. Also I think if someone is assuming a particular role with you and another person or persons you are indeed sharing that person whether it is a shared spouse, parent, friend or anything else. The word sharing doesn’t necessarily imply ownship. 

You are talking about polygamist wives sharing a man’s penis but they are also sharing a confidant, co-parent, romantic, intellectual and comforting companion. Lots of people believe in having sex with multiple people without promises being made. However being married whether you are polygamist or not is entering into a promise and for polygamists that promise includes sharing or splitting your love and devotion among your wives. I’m sure ownership comes in when the husbands feel they own their wives but I don’t see it the other way around.

Well that is what all of the monogamist married women say on the FB sister wives message boards.  It's ALWAYS about the sexual aspect of polygamy.  "I'm not sharing my husband with another woman!"  It's never ABOUT all of the other bolded aspects above.  And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the HARDEST part about polygamy - the aspects that most people never even a give a thought to.

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4 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I’m sure ownership comes in when the husbands feel they own their wives but I don’t see it the other way around.

Are you speaking of monogamous marriages or polygamist marriages when you say this statement?  I can tell you that it does work two ways, depending on people's personalities - and even in polygamy there are wives who assert themselves in ways to show they are "Boss" over the others because they have a hold over the husband which seems indicative of a feeling of "ownership".  I see this with Robyn and the Browns, although others might not.

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3 hours ago, Kyanight said:

Well that is what all of the monogamist married women say on the FB sister wives message boards.  It's ALWAYS about the sexual aspect of polygamy.  "I'm not sharing my husband with another woman!"  It's never ABOUT all of the other bolded aspects above.  And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the HARDEST part about polygamy - the aspects that most people never even a give a thought to.

Not sure why it would be about that alone, as sex is only a part of marriage. Many people get involved in emotional affairs as well, which is considered cheating, & perhaps even worse, because they may be creating a spousal like emotional attachment to someone else (as these men are also doing). So they're focusing on the sexual aspect, but that's not the only way the polygamist women are 'sharing', & the more 'sharing' going on, the more the 'king' has to neglect each woman for another. But he wouldn't care, because his needs are met all around with much variety.

Edited by gonecrackers
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13 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

Not sure why it would be about that alone, as sex is only a part of marriage. Many people get involved in emotional affairs as well, which is considered cheating, & perhaps even worse, because they may be creating a spousal like emotional attachment to someone else (as these men are also doing). So they're focusing on the sexual aspect, but that's not the only way the polygamist women are 'sharing', & the more 'sharing' going on, the more the 'king' has to neglect each woman for another. But he wouldn't care, because his needs are met all around with much variety.

I was only saying that the only thing I see women saying about the horrors of polygamy are the sexual side of it.  Bernie and what a horndog he is, Dimitri and what a horndog he is.  I agree that they are - but when it is all said and done - there will be more going on in the house than the husband having sex 24/7 with another "new" woman.   

Don't people usually just equate polygamy with sex?  The husband wants a lot of sex, doesn't want to "cheat" so marries other women.   And I think that many times this view is justified with the actions of some.  Like those polygamist men who marry younger and younger girls.

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2 hours ago, Kyanight said:

I was only saying that the only thing I see women saying about the horrors of polygamy are the sexual side of it.  Bernie and what a horndog he is, Dimitri and what a horndog he is.  I agree that they are - but when it is all said and done - there will be more going on in the house than the husband having sex 24/7 with another "new" woman.   

Don't people usually just equate polygamy with sex?  The husband wants a lot of sex, doesn't want to "cheat" so marries other women.   And I think that many times this view is justified with the actions of some.  Like those polygamist men who marry younger and younger girls.

So they get a rotation of women for sex without having any real relationship with them. They must have to deal with them for more than sex, though, since they 'marry' them & have children. Personally, I feel it's cheating in every way, but yeah these guys sizing up the prospective new wife are really creepy, like fresh meat.

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Wasn’t there a book written by a former plural wife called something like It’s Not About The Sex My Ass

I have always considered the “other” aspects of polygamy to be just as challenging— that even if a wife handles the sexual jealousy well, she may struggle with not having enough time, emotional support, financial resources, and parenting help from her husband. 

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16 minutes ago, Adiba said:

I have always considered the “other” aspects of polygamy to be just as challenging— that even if a wife handles the sexual jealousy well, she may struggle with not having enough time, emotional support, financial resources, and parenting help from her husband. 

And more.

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On 3/14/2019 at 2:05 PM, taragel said:

I did also watch Showtime's series Polygamy and those generally had open marriage type families where both spouses had multiple relationships. No one seemed all that happy there either and it was even MORE work to juggle all those people and their wants and needs and fears. 

That show was actually called Polyamory so everyone had extra relationships, and the finale was their "weekend polyamorous retreat" (which judgmental people like me called a big orgy 😄). So IMO they were far removed from the polygamy which seems to revolve around marriage, family, religious belief, etc.  But I agree with you that for the most part they weren't happy and it was a lot of work.  The central couple were big show-offs like the Snowdens too.

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9 hours ago, princelina said:

That show was actually called Polyamory so everyone had extra relationships, and the finale was their "weekend polyamorous retreat" (which judgmental people like me called a big orgy 😄). So IMO they were far removed from the polygamy which seems to revolve around marriage, family, religious belief, etc.  But I agree with you that for the most part they weren't happy and it was a lot of work.  The central couple were big show-offs like the Snowdens too.

Oops sorry! That's right. I was misremembering the title. I do remember there being one triad, with a husband and wife who'd been married for a while (though still young) and they brought in a new girl--they could've been the ones that were Snowden like? There was also a husband and wife who both had multiple partners but the wife seemed a lot more into it than the husband and she was kind of hippie-like. Ah, the wife was named Kamala in that second group (which had 4 or more entangled partners I believe). And  yes, they were all very open and bisexual I believe. The young triad were Anthony and Lindsey and Vanessa (lol, another Vanessa) and they were a lot more like the TLC couples (I don't think the women were intimate when the husband wasn't around, but am not totally sure).

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On 3/16/2019 at 10:43 PM, taragel said:

Oops sorry! That's right. I was misremembering the title. I do remember there being one triad, with a husband and wife who'd been married for a while (though still young) and they brought in a new girl--they could've been the ones that were Snowden like? There was also a husband and wife who both had multiple partners but the wife seemed a lot more into it than the husband and she was kind of hippie-like. Ah, the wife was named Kamala in that second group (which had 4 or more entangled partners I believe). And  yes, they were all very open and bisexual I believe. The young triad were Anthony and Lindsey and Vanessa (lol, another Vanessa) and they were a lot more like the TLC couples (I don't think the women were intimate when the husband wasn't around, but am not totally sure).

From what I recall, other than the big orgy they only had sex with one person at a time.  And it was Kamala’s family that showed off like the Snowden’s 😄

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On 3/14/2019 at 5:44 PM, Kyanight said:

Don't people usually just equate polygamy with sex?  The husband wants a lot of sex, doesn't want to "cheat" so marries other women.   And I think that many times this view is justified with the actions of some.  Like those polygamist men who marry younger and younger girls.

Well, I don't think I do, or at least I don't equate polygamy with just sex.   I think more about the "taking turns" aspect as far as other life stuff, although I certainly don't want my husband  having sex with other women.    Mr. T and I go to the movies and theater a lot;  I just don't think I would be happy with his going to them with another wife, and I would want him at all the school functions for the children.  What if I want the "our family" to visit "my uncle and aunt" who live 2 states away.  Does the "whole family" come, too?   and I probably would worry that wives 2 and 3 were talking about me to him or to each other about me.   Also I don't live in a part of the country where this is common.

Speaking of wives 2 and 3, is there a certain number of wives that is considered ideal?

I think the focus on this show--at least with Dimitri and Bernie is the sex angle as both seem barely able to refrain.  I think of the Alredge women as the most normal example of plural wives, but I think that is because they both share the same house and have kids about the same age.  I liked that about the Browns when they first started and all lived together in the big house in Utah.   But  maybe my idea of normal polygamous life is wrong.  Or is there that much variety. 

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1 hour ago, Twopper said:

Speaking of wives 2 and 3, is there a certain number of wives that is considered ideal?

I think the focus on this show--at least with Dimitri and Bernie is the sex angle as both seem barely able to refrain.  I think of the Alredge women as the most normal example of plural wives, but I think that is because they both share the same house and have kids about the same age.  I liked that about the Browns when they first started and all lived together in the big house in Utah.   But  maybe my idea of normal polygamous life is wrong.  Or is there that much variety. 

I don't believe there is any number that is considered ideal.  At least three is the goal.

Polygamy was definitely NOT for me, but even so - I think the Snowdens and McGees really give it a bad rap.  lol       Let me put it this way - NO ONE I knew was like either of them.  And although this might be hard to believe.... sex was never the reason for taking a new wife.  Well.... I guess that COULD have been in some of the guys' heads.  But it was nothing like what you are seeing.

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1 hour ago, Kyanight said:

I don't believe there is any number that is considered ideal.  At least three is the goal.

Why would three be the goal?  is there a religious reason for that, or do the dynamics work a little better (at least in theory).

I would have preferred 4 couples more like the Alredges and Winders;  the other two couples just seem like they don't fit in. 

I have no idea why I am so interested in this;  I cannot get my head around it.

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Is there a polyg religion for dummies cheat sheet?  If I understand correctly there are 3 planets in the afterlife and to get to the “best” you have to have 3 wives.  Is this right?  Is there a requirement for # of children?  What happens in divorce? Jeff Aldredge’s 1st wife left him, since he married 3 does he still get the “best”?  What happens if you have 3 wives and get into the “best” planet in the afterlife, but your kids don’t do polygamy?  Does that mean the family be reunited in the afterlife (will the Brown parents not be with their kids)?  What does it mean for women?  Does the 3 wives apply to them so they have to find families with at least 2 wives?  Sorry I have so many burning questions 🙂

Edited by Booger666

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1 hour ago, Kyanight said:

I don't believe there is any number that is considered ideal.  At least three is the goal.

Polygamy was definitely NOT for me, but even so - I think the Snowdens and McGees really give it a bad rap.  lol       Let me put it this way - NO ONE I knew was like either of them.  And although this might be hard to believe.... sex was never the reason for taking a new wife.  Well.... I guess that COULD have been in some of the guys' heads.  But it was nothing like what you are seeing.

I cut the Snowdens some slack because they are not living polygamy for religious reasons. I don't think they make too many bones about the fact that this is about sex and intimacy to a certain extent, as well as wanting more kids. I still think we are talking polyamory here.

Edited by Gothish520

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6 minutes ago, Twopper said:

Why would three be the goal?  is there a religious reason for that, or do the dynamics work a little better (at least in theory).

I would have preferred 4 couples more like the Alredges and Winders;  the other two couples just seem like they don't fit in. 

I have no idea why I am so interested in this;  I cannot get my head around it.

Fundamentalists believe that you must have three wives in order to go to heaven.   At least that's why my husband all of a sudden had an epiphany about bringing in new wives.   I obviously can't know if this is true for the Winders or the Alldredges.   I think the McGees and Snowdens mostly wanted to be on Reality TV.

I think the IDEA is interesting, it's just the dynamics are a nightmare.  Even if the first wife is on board with the idea from the beginning, trying to bring in women with different ideas of how a household should be run, and the jealousies that stem from NOT just the sexual aspect but from everything from the day to day issues to attention paid to whose children how often adds up to major unhappiness.  I know I've heard it mentioned a few times on the Sister Wives show - it is WORK for all of the adults involved, to have peace in the household.  Other wives are like messy roommates who leave clothes in the washing machine to mildew or who won't help with the dishes but leave all of their kid's dishes for YOU to wash.... women who are quick to talk about you with your husband behind your back but if YOU bring up an issue you want help with he says "I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT - YOU two work it out!"   If you go out somewhere as a group you get a lot of glares and negative attention.  If you are at a function where there are other polygamists, if you try to put your arm around your husband or hold his hand you are viewed as "needy".   When the children misbehave it is YOUR fault because you are lacking in your "training" of them in how to behave properly.  If another wife disciplines your child it seems harsh and overboard - if YOU try to discipline their child because they IGNORE the child's bratty behavior - you are "out of line" and it isn't your place!

I look at these couples on Seeking and I think it MIGHT work for the Winders because Tami is so passive and Sophie seems kind-hearted.  And definitely the Alldredge's second and third wives are able to make this work - (although first wife is done with it).  But I really have to pause and wonder if adding a third wife is eventually going to cause issues.

The McGees don't really believe in polgamy and haven't the foggiest idea of how it works successfully.  They are a moot point because it is never going to happen.  The Snowdens have a unique perspective on it that I cannot quite grasp - despite having lived the lifestyle.  I honestly don't understand them.   

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19 minutes ago, Booger666 said:

Is there a polyg religion for dummies cheat sheet?  If I understand correctly there are 3 planets in the afterlife and to get to the “best” you have to have 3 wives.  Is this right?  Is there a requirement for # of children?  What happens in divorce? Jeff Aldredge’s 1st wife left him, since he married 3 does he still get the “best”?  What happens if you have 3 wives and get into the “best” planet in the afterlife, but your kids don’t do polygamy?  Does that mean the family be reunited in the afterlife (will the Brown parents not be with their kids)?  What does it mean for women?  Does the 3 wives apply to them so they have to find families with at least 2 wives?  Sorry I have so many burning questions 🙂

You ask some good questions.   The answers aren't technically black and white because there are SO many different groups that believe differently.  If some people don't like what a group believes they leave and start their own church.  Religion is very private and very sacred.   You are right about the three wives.  Divorce is extremely rare - usually the wives just leave but remain married.   I can't answer some of your burning questions because I wasn't raised FLDS, my husband was - and I didn't like/was afraid of his dad so when my husband took other wives and went to his father's church, I stayed home with the babies/sick kids. Wow, I didn't help you out at all - but I didn't want you to think I was just ignoring you!  : )

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One thing I never understood: men and women are born roughly 50/50 in the population. If a man needs 3 wives to have his own planet, it means 2 other men get no wife and no planet. How does the religion address this? And I know all about the lost boys and all that but I’m talking about actual religious doctrine. 

And in this day and age the majority of these men are not farmers and do not need 20 kids to work as farmhands. There really is no justification for multiple wives besides sexual variety for the husband. Kids go to school and have preschool and after school activities so they don’t need four moms around all the time.

Many of these families live off of food stamps and welfare so the men can’t always provide for 20 kids. 

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Thanks @Kyanight.   Really appreciate your contributions to this board.

Agree with you about the sharing outside of the bedroom being a big challenge.  I can’t imagine the times I’ve needed my husband because I’ve had a rough day or received bad news and how awful it would be if I couldn’t get his support because it was someone else’s time.  

The Snowdens and McGees seem to be making it up as they go along.  I’d be curious what Dimitri’s family thinks of his lifestyle.  Seems odd we’ve seen Ashley and Vanessa’s family and not his.  Since they haven’t come out to defend him at all I’m guessing they aren’t impressed.

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5 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

One thing I never understood: men and women are born roughly 50/50 in the population. If a man needs 3 wives to have his own planet, it means 2 other men get no wife and no planet. How does the religion address this? And I know all about the lost boys and all that but I’m talking about actual religious doctrine. 

And in this day and age the majority of these men are not farmers and do not need 20 kids to work as farmhands. There really is no justification for multiple wives besides sexual variety for the husband. Kids go to school and have preschool and after school activities so they don’t need four moms around all the time.

Many of these families live off of food stamps and welfare so the men can’t always provide for 20 kids. 

People who practice polygamy are very much in the minority - so that ratio of men to women is immaterial.  FLDS do not do missionary work to convert people to their religion.

I agree with what you say about the kids.

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I don’t think it’s immaterial if they have to kick young men to the curb to make sure they don’t marry the younger women. I understand polygamists are a minority population but I was wondering about their religious tenants . And I assume it connects with original Mormon beliefs regarding planets.

Put another way: If you had a community of 100 polygamists and 50 were men and 50 women, only 20 or so men could have more than one wife. As a rhetorical question: If all of Kody Brown’s sons were polygamists would he be ok with only a few of them taking all available wives thus denying the rest from having their own planet?

Edited by Madding crowd

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2 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I don’t think it’s immaterial if they have to kick young men to the curb to make sure they don’t marry the younger women. I understand polygamists are a minority population but I was wondering about their religious tenants . And I assume it connects with original Mormon beliefs regarding planets.

Sorry, I wasn't talking about the Warren Jeffs of the polygamy world.  To me, they are extremists, and totally off the deep end.  They are the only ones who marry little girls and kick boys out ( that I know of) and I view them as an extreme cult.

As I said, there are SO many individual groups that have their own beliefs.  I am positive that ALL of them connect and have ties with the original Mormon beliefs and planets, but as to individual nuances, that I can't say.  I'm not an expert on any of that, I only have my own experiences and I left a long time ago.  My youngest wasn't even a year old and he is in his mid-twenties now.

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