S01.E17: Goodbye

[HazelEyes4325]

42 minutes ago, iwasish said:

Just because she hasn’t  mentioned any change in due date doesn’t mean she wasn’t told. The way this show seems to play fast and loose with the story line and facts it wouldn’t shock me if it turns out Delilah now knows it’s Jon’s and just failed to tell Eddie. It doesn’t seem like they even have much contact anymore. All that passion fizzled out pretty quickly. Despite Jon’s plea  to “ love each other”

I want to agree with this.  I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong and I actually wouldn't be surprised if this comes to pass.  Let us not forget that Delilah claimed two different people were the father in one episode.  She is far from reliable or truthful.

My only reservation--which is sort of a stupid reservation given this show--is that it just seems so far-fetched.  I know, I need to manage my expectations here.  But I can still see it.  As you said, Delilah was done with Eddie the moment she could no longer use him to hurt Jon and I can see how it would work that she told him he was the Daddy because she wanted the support AND she wanted him in her orbit, not because he's actually the father.

Still, that would be soapy, beyond soapy.  But, with Nash, soapy is apparently not a criticism as he seems rather proud that this is a soap opera.

[HazelEyes4325]

I'm finally watching this and I am, I kid you not, 1:03 in and I'm yelling "PIVOT!"  

#friendsdiditbetter

ETA: At 1:11 we have an apartment swap so that a romantic couple within a group of friends can live together.

I'm now starting to wonder how many Friends did it better moments there are in this episode...

Edited March 5, 2019 by HazelEyes4325

[HazelEyes4325]

Okay finished that...I found it interesting, but probably not in the ways I should have.

First off, holy shit...was that William Shatner in the airport cart in front of the bar where Jon met Delilah?  I went back twice and it really, really looks like him...but whyyyyy?  I mean, 3 seconds on a camera is not Shatner's jam.

Now that's out of the way.

I have to admit that this episode felt really, really, really long.  I checked how much time I had left several times and was shocked that I still had 20, 10, whatever minutes to go.  I think what was actually accomplished in this episode could have been done in half the time.

When Delilah was watching that video and Jon said that she was the love of his life, I hope guilt was stabbing her.  But, of course, it probably wasn't.  Also, this whole "baby is early" thing is crap.  If she had "less than 4 weeks" to go, she's full-term.  That is NOT early.  Secondly, I now have a bad feeling that we're going to get more baby daddy lies coming up in season 2, either that Jon is really the Dad, or that Delilah doubles down on that lie for Eddie.  

Also, clutching your stomach when you have been fine all day IS NOT HOW LABOR WORKS!  I get it, actual labor is...not that interesting.  But I really wish that shows would quit using fantasy childbirth.

So, Eddie and Katherine.  Magnificent acting on both their parts and, really, their acting has been topnotch all season.  What hasn't been topnotch has been the writing.  If you follow their story closely, it actually doesn't make sense how they got from point A to point B, which makes me even more convinced that Nash yanked the actors around on this story.  I mean, it's jarring when you are watching a show and it is clear that the showrunner changed paths abruptly, but I can only imagine how frustrating it must be playing a role one way and then all of a sudden have to change your characterization.

Oh, and I was expecting (maybe because someone mentioned it here) that Eddie was making googly eyes earlier in the episode at Delilah.  I actually didn't see that.  I saw a lot of regret from him, perhaps both from the fact that his affair effed up his marriage but also--and probably much more likely--that he would never be a father to his (supposed) baby (I still can't get over the cruelty on Delilah's part to even ask this of him).  That was actually some more good acting on Giuntoli's part (and, as a David Giuntoli fan, I'm delighted to see him doing so well in this show, even if the show isn't always doing so well for his character).

Here is my possibly unpopular opinion: I'm okay with the Rome wanting a baby storyline.  I mean, it will fucking piss me off if Regina has a "change of heart" and "sees the light," but the set up of a couple agreeing to no kids and then one of them changing his or her mind is so, so common.  I've seen it happen with my friends and in my own family.  And I actually thought the dialogue around it was some of the most realistic this whole season.  And, while I think Rome's stated reason for wanting a baby--to "put things in perspective"--is almost (but not quite) as bad as having a baby because you were too lazy to get Plan B when the condom broke during sex with your husband's best friend, I still found his change of heart genuine.

This may just be me but I want to see "real" (but fictional) people going through real problems.  Trying to repair a marriage after infidelity is real.  Trying to reconcile a relationship where one person has a change of heart about parenthood is real.  Trying to accept and treat depression is real (and wouldn't it be nice if this show actually did that?).  The whole Barbara Morgan/real estate/9-11 stuff is not real and I really don't want to see more of that in season 2.

ETA: One more thing I forgot.  I didn't say anything about the airport and/or 9-11 scenes (other than WAS THAT WILLIAM SHATNER???) because everything I would say has already been said...except for one WTF thing.

When the guys were going to Vancouver for the game, why the hell did they have Eddie get their tickets?  First of all, didn't Jon always take care of everything.  Secondly, Eddie is not a functioning adult.  Why on Earth would anyone think it would be a good idea to let him make travel plans?

Edited March 6, 2019 by HazelEyes4325

[iwasish]

7 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I want to agree with this.  I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong and I actually wouldn't be surprised if this comes to pass.  Let us not forget that Delilah claimed two different people were the father in one episode.  She is far from reliable or truthful.

My only reservation--which is sort of a stupid reservation given this show--is that it just seems so far-fetched.  I know, I need to manage my expectations here.  But I can still see it.  As you said, Delilah was done with Eddie the moment she could no longer use him to hurt Jon and I can see how it would work that she told him he was the Daddy because she wanted the support AND she wanted him in her orbit, not because he's actually the father.

Still, that would be soapy, beyond soapy.  But, with Nash, soapy is apparently not a criticism as he seems rather proud that this is a soap opera.

I wonder if Jon hadn’t committed suicide, just how the baby story would have played out. Of course, If he hadn’t killed himself there wouldn’t be a show. 

Its hard to believe that none of the mega financial mess that Jon created made the papers.  

[HazelEyes4325]

16 minutes ago, iwasish said:

I wonder if Jon hadn’t committed suicide, just how the baby story would have played out. Of course, If he hadn’t killed himself there wouldn’t be a show. 

Its hard to believe that none of the mega financial mess that Jon created made the papers.  

My guess is that Eddie and Delilah would have gone through with leaving their spouses.  Then, a week later, Delilah will realize that Eddie is a child and Eddie will realize that Delilah wants him to provide for her and that would be that.  Then the pregnancy would be discovered.  If it were Jon's baby, a lot of groveling and trying to reconciling with spouses would happen.  If it were Eddie's, we'd have two very unhappy people (and probably two other people who were glad to be rid of them).  And, since this is Delilah, who she says is the father is not, so you know...

This might actually have been a better show for Nash to write.  He seems proud that he has a soap opera and that's a soap opera.  Instead, he has this other show with a great premise and loads of potential and it seems far too much for him to handle.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, iwasish said:

I wonder if Jon hadn’t committed suicide, just how the baby story would have played out. Of course, If he hadn’t killed himself there wouldn’t be a show. 

Its hard to believe that none of the mega financial mess that Jon created made the papers.  

I sometimes think what if Jon found out about Rome before he wanted to jump, he was rushed to hospital. Would he do it then? Would he ever?  Of course not written that way, but one action causes another sometimes.

[izabella]

15 hours ago, iwasish said:

I wonder if Jon hadn’t committed suicide, just how the baby story would have played out. Of course, If he hadn’t killed himself there wouldn’t be a show. 

Delilah might have gone through with the abortion she initially wanted.

[jhlipton]

On 3/5/2019 at 1:38 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

Trying to reconcile a relationship where one person has a change of heart about parenthood is real. 

I wanted slap Rome silly.  He knows how Regina feels, he's known since he married her.  Mention it once, twice maybe, and then find some other outlet.  Because otherwise, you're being a pushy, whiny baby (which Regina doesn't want!!!).  Ugh.

[HazelEyes4325]

Just now, jhlipton said:

I wanted slap Rome silly.  He knows how Regina feels, he's known since he married her.  Mention it once, twice maybe, and then find some other outlet.  Because otherwise, you're being a pushy, whiny baby (which Regina doesn't want!!!).  Ugh.

I'm not saying that Rome was *right* about how he decided to bring this up to Regina but rather it isn't unheard of that in a couple who agreed on no kids one half might have a change of heart.  

Now, to the specifics of the scene, I think this is only the 2nd time we've seen Rome and Regina talk about kids and the first time that Rome expressed a desire for kids.  I could be wrong about that, though.  I just can't get on the "Rome is wrong to change his mind about kids" train, but I'm the engineer of the "Rome is wrong to try to convince Regina to have kids when she doesn't want to" train.  

This is what interests me about this plot.  As I said, it isn't uncommon and, personally, I like "realistic" shows (such as this) that deal with realistic topics.  And, from what I've seen with family and friends, this particular conflict reveals much about couples and frequently bring up issues that have never been aired--not necessarily issues with a partner, but maybe just issues a person has put off dealing with.  I think this could be a good storyline.  The key word, of course, is "could."  I will admit that I am not at all confident that Nash can handle it well.

Here is where I am.  Rome is not wrong to change his feeling about having kids.  Regina is not wrong about maintaining that she doesn't want to have kids.  One should not "force" the other to their point of view--so something has to happen.  Is one going to sway the other to their point of view?  If so, I hope to all that is holy that Regina is the one who prevails.  There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is that I'm not totally convinced that Rome's change of heart isn't exactly genuine but maybe a manifestation of something else.  Or is this something that can't be overcome?  

It's going to be messy, no matter which way it goes.  But it is the kind of messy I can watch.

However...I kind of wish it wasn't Rome and Regina going through this.  Of course, in this show, they are the only candidates for this storyline.  But I feel like this is a way for Nash to brush aside the plot of Rome's depression which they have never appropriately addressed for something "easier" to deal with.

Wow, reading this over, I realize how scattered I sound.  I apologize for that but I am torn on this.

[cardigirl]

On 3/1/2019 at 1:35 PM, cardigirl said:

Unlike many people, I do hope that there is a serious gaze directed at choosing whether or not to have a child next season. Rome has the right to want children of his own, Regina has the right to decide she doesn't want to have children.  How does a couple deal with that? What compromises for love will be made? It's easy to say that Rome doesn't really know right now that he does want his own child to raise, and that he has NO RIGHT to ask that of Regina, but maybe he does have a right to explore thoroughly that option with her, without her shutting him down.  And Regina does have the right to say she DOESN'T want any children of her own, even his, and what does that mean about her love for him and their relationship?  I'd watch that show. P.S. Regina, there is never a perfect time to have baby. Just saying.

Quoting myself here from earlier in the thread. I agree that a measured look at how a couple navigates something as big as a change of heart about whether or not to have children could be interesting. The actors involved could carry that storyline very well.

And it is something that happens to some couples. And decisions have to be made. 

What someone thought they wanted at age 25 or 30 or 35 or 40, can change, and then things have to be discussed, examined, and thought about. 

Not sure this show can do it well, but I am sure I would watch that. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by cardigirl

[Dusty]

10 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Here is where I am.  Rome is not wrong to change his feeling about having kids.  Regina is not wrong about maintaining that she doesn't want to have kids.  One should not "force" the other to their point of view--so something has to happen.  Is one going to sway the other to their point of view?  If so, I hope to all that is holy that Regina is the one who prevails.  There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is that I'm not totally convinced that Rome's change of heart isn't exactly genuine but maybe a manifestation of something else.  Or is this something that can't be overcome?  

It's going to be messy, no matter which way it goes.  But it is the kind of messy I can watch.

However...I kind of wish it wasn't Rome and Regina going through this.  Of course, in this show, they are the only candidates for this storyline.  But I feel like this is a way for Nash to brush aside the plot of Rome's depression which they have never appropriately addressed for something "easier" to deal with.

Wow, reading this over, I realize how scattered I sound.  I apologize for that but I am torn on this.

This is my problem with the story.  If the depression and almost suicide part never happened and Rome just realized that he wanted kids after the fake out pregnancy scare then I wouldn't have an issue with it at all. I think it would be an interesting route to go, while also hoping that Regina doesn't give in. They're already have one too many pregnancy/baby storylines. But if done well, which I don't trust this show to do, it could've been interesting to explore how they would navigate it. But I can't forget about the depression and suicide part, even if it feels like the show wants everyone to. And it'll take more than a couple of scenes for me to be convinced that Rome's change of heart is coming from a genuine place and not for some quick fix. I've always thought him just quitting his job was a rash decision spurred on by Jon's suicide and Rome's depression. Trying to find that one thing that's making him depressed and change that in hopes it'll be all better. But hey, they apparently had the money for him to do that so I didn't have much of a problem with it. But a kid is permanent and it's a lot of responsibility to put on someone as your reason for living. Especially someone who had no choice as to whether they wanted that sort of responsibility.

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Here is where I am.  Rome is not wrong to change his feeling about having kids.  Regina is not wrong about maintaining that she doesn't want to have kids.  One should not "force" the other to their point of view--so something has to happen.  Is one going to sway the other to their point of view?  If so, I hope to all that is holy that Regina is the one who prevails.  There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is that I'm not totally convinced that Rome's change of heart isn't exactly genuine but maybe a manifestation of something else.  Or is this something that can't be overcome? 

Well put. It's pretty much where I am too.

1 hour ago, Dusty said:

This is my problem with the story.  If the depression and almost suicide part never happened and Rome just realized that he wanted kids after the fake out pregnancy scare then I wouldn't have an issue with it at all. I think it would be an interesting route to go, while also hoping that Regina doesn't give in. They're already have one too many pregnancy/baby storylines. But if done well, which I don't trust this show to do, it could've been interesting to explore how they would navigate it. But I can't forget about the depression and suicide part, even if it feels like the show wants everyone to. And it'll take more than a couple of scenes for me to be convinced that Rome's change of heart is coming from a genuine place and not for some quick fix. I've always thought him just quitting his job was a rash decision spurred on by Jon's suicide and Rome's depression. Trying to find that one thing that's making him depressed and change that in hopes it'll be all better. But hey, they apparently had the money for him to do that so I didn't have much of a problem with it. But a kid is permanent and it's a lot of responsibility to put on someone as your reason for living. Especially someone who had no choice as to whether they wanted that sort of responsibility.

That's my problem with Rome's decision as well.

[HazelEyes4325]

Reading what people have written and solidifying my own thoughts on the subject, I think this is my problem with the Rome/Regina/Baby storyline:

While I think a storyline about a couple who had agreed to have kids but then one has a change of heart is merited and is something I would like to watch, I am very uneasy about it in this show because:

• I don't trust Nash to do it well.  He hasn't actually done anything well this entire first season and this is a tricky subject to deal with.  In fact, the only time I recall a show handling it well (and it wasn't exactly the same thing as it was based on a couple not talking about kids--and so many other things--before getting married and not a change of heart) was Grey's Anatomy.  Unfortunately, GA is the exception to the rule: too many shows try this and almost all fail at it miserably.
• It seems like a ploy for Nash to get out from under the storyline of Rome's depression, which he clearly does not know how to handle.  Now, there is actually a path to do both storylines together and do them well, but Nash is not the writer to do that.

This also brings up a more general problem I have with Nash.  He just tries to go too far.  It's like he finds himself in a hard spot with a plot and instead of working it, he tries to add to it to distract himself (or the audience).  For example, I actually don't have a problem with the Eddie and Delilah infidelity as a plot device (I mean, I really hate them for it, but I'm talking about an actual plot) and the show didn't need anything more than that...but then he adds the secret baby, which is completely unnecessary and makes the whole thing overblown and particularly unsavory.  In the same way, we have Maggie and Gary---that all would have been enough, but then he adds in the whole weird thing about Maggie's brother, which really has nothing to do with anything but is just a distraction from the fact that he wasn't sure how to handle their plot.

[izabella]

5 hours ago, Dusty said:

But I can't forget about the depression and suicide part, even if it feels like the show wants everyone to. And it'll take more than a couple of scenes for me to be convinced that Rome's change of heart is coming from a genuine place and not for some quick fix.

Rome even said something like that about a baby, like it would focus everything for him or something like that.  I'm sorry, I wish I could remember what he said, but it came off to me like he was thinking a baby would solve all his problems instead of bringing a whole new set, especially since he's had this idea for about 5 minutes so it's just fantasy at this point.  And, as you said, he tried to commit suicide a few months ago! 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Dusty said:

But I can't forget about the depression and suicide part, even if it feels like the show wants everyone to. And it'll take more than a couple of scenes for me to be convinced that Rome's change of heart is coming from a genuine place and not for some quick fix. I've always thought him just quitting his job was a rash decision spurred on by Jon's suicide and Rome's depression. Trying to find that one thing that's making him depressed and change that in hopes it'll be all better.

I agree. It seems like Rome comes up with something new to try every other episode. If it is deliberate it and they show Rome working through is issues and he still wants kids than it could be a good storyline. Unfortunately I doubt that is going to happen. 

In addition to Rome’s issues Regina really isn’t in the place mentally where having kids would be a good idea even if she wanted them. One conversation with her mom if not enough to her to magically be over being molested. 

39 minutes ago, izabella said:

Rome even said something like that about a baby, like it would focus everything for him or something like that.  I'm sorry, I wish I could remember what he said, but it came off to me like he was thinking a baby would solve all his problems instead of bringing a whole new set, especially since he's had this idea for about 5 minutes so it's just fantasy at this point.  And, as you said, he tried to commit suicide a few months ago! 

He said that having a baby would put everything into perspective. Which is a really bad reason to have a baby. 

[debraran]

6 hours ago, izabella said:

Rome even said something like that about a baby, like it would focus everything for him or something like that.  I'm sorry, I wish I could remember what he said, but it came off to me like he was thinking a baby would solve all his problems instead of bringing a whole new set, especially since he's had this idea for about 5 minutes so it's just fantasy at this point.  And, as you said, he tried to commit suicide a few months ago! 

Even the "best" babies, the ones who don't cry a lot or get sick, are stressful. I had it pretty good with mine and I had days I wanted to cry or get out for a little bit before I went crazy.  I can't imagine Rome with a baby with colic or being ill and not have dealt with his depression earlier. Sure they are cute and can wear Bruins baby clothes, but it's a 24 job with other life stressors mixed in. It's not a punishment but Regina was right to say it was too soon even if she wanted one now. He didn't know why he wasn't happy before, he might look at the baby after the euphoria goes away, crying, needing to be changed, him trying to write, and ask, "Why am I not happy now?". Please show him getting more good emotional and physical help. Either way he has to put himself first now.

Edited March 8, 2019 by debraran

[jhlipton]

On 3/6/2019 at 5:08 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

I just can't get on the "Rome is wrong to change his mind about kids" train, but I'm the engineer of the "Rome is wrong to try to convince Regina to have kids when she doesn't want to" train.  

Rome is not wrong to change his feeling about having kids.  Regina is not wrong about maintaining that she doesn't want to have kids.  One should not "force" the other to their point of view--so something has to happen.  Is one going to sway the other to their point of view?  If so, I hope to all that is holy that Regina is the one who prevails.

Hell to the yeah to the power of 1000 to this.

Rome can start by being a Big Brother.  That will give him the focus he says he needs without involving Regina.  From there they can navigate where to go next.

I'd trust the writers of Brooklyn Nine-Nine to handle this, not the ones on this show.

[HazelEyes4325]

1 minute ago, jhlipton said:

Hell to the yeah to the power of 1000 to this.

Rome can start by being a Big Brother.  That will give him the focus he says he needs without involving Regina.  From there they can navigate where to go next.

I'd trust the writers of Brooklyn Nine-Nine to handle this, not the ones on this show.

He doesn't even have to be a Big Brother.  He can babysit the Precious Life for an hour (because, you know, everyone but Delilah will be raising that child).

I had to laugh when he was saying how much he did for Sophie and Danny since Jon died.  I mean, he did do something.  He danced with Sophie at her recital and he lied and told them their mom went out to get cider.  You know, real life changing stuff.

[jhlipton]

Just now, HazelEyes4325 said:

He can babysit the Precious Life for an hour (because, you know, everyone but Delilah will be raising that child).

True dat!

[Guest]

7 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

He doesn't even have to be a Big Brother.  He can babysit the Precious Life for an hour (because, you know, everyone but Delilah will be raising that child).

I had to laugh when he was saying how much he did for Sophie and Danny since Jon died.  I mean, he did do something.  He danced with Sophie at her recital and he lied and told them their mom went out to get cider.  You know, real life changing stuff.

Hey, don’t forget that time he failed at teaching her how to drive.

I’d love to see him watch Theo. One experience with night terrors should be all he needs to reevaluate his desire for a child. 

I agree with Regina that someone who needs noise canceling headphones because of grape eating is not ready to be a parent. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Guest

[SunnyBeBe]

I haven't been following that closely lately, but, did catch the last 3 episodes On Demand. So, is BJ (Barbara's son) supposed to be Jon's bio child?  The way Barbara's husband commented on Delilah being gone before he got there, then hearing his voice, then the boy looking at the video of Jon talking about his decision to commit suicide.....what is the deal? If so, Jon must not have known.  

[alexvillage]

On 3/7/2019 at 5:21 AM, cardigirl said:

Quoting myself here from earlier in the thread. I agree that a measured look at how a couple navigates something as big as a change of heart about whether or not to have children could be interesting. The actors involved could carry that storyline very well.

And it is something that happens to some couples. And decisions have to be made. 

What someone thought they wanted at age 25 or 30 or 35 or 40, can change, and then things have to be discussed, examined, and thought about. 

Not sure this show can do it well, but I am sure I would watch that. 

I agree with you. Let's see if the show goes with the patriarchy and decides that Regina is the one who caves (I don't remember any other TV show where a similar situation led to the decision of not having kids)

[Anela]

On 2/28/2019 at 10:18 PM, chitowngirl said:

My family calls me by a different nickname than I use in my “real” life. That’s not unusual.

My family call me my middle name as a nickname. Jane/Janie. 

On 2/28/2019 at 10:36 PM, zillabreeze said:

I had that exact question!  He was acting butt hurt about something and tap dancing right around sexual harassment ("your work seems to be suffering").  Then Katherine puts him in his place.

I just don't remember anything dramatic between them to cause that interaction.

They slept together, and he announced the next morning, that he'd got the job that she turned down. He went from being a seemingly great guy, to a total douche. He knows that she's focusing on her son - unless he got wind of her spending time with her *husband* and felt jealous. Either way, total douche move. 

I don't understand why it's a big deal for Delilah to get out of that apartment. That woman's husband was also a total douche - and why would she go to see her at her house, and lie to her daughter, also saying *but she's pregnant*. If he met D after he missed his flight, then I can't see them messing around out of grief, and "needing comfort". The kid (from Walking Dead) seems nice. 

I hope they don't break up Rome and Regina. They are a great couple, don't have them arguing over wanting or not wanting children. Please. They have one couple possibly getting back together, so now they have to mess with the happy couple? No. It is also way too soon after his feeling suicidal. Having a baby won't fix that, it will just add to the stress, as beautiful as babies are. His wife is doing well, and busy. Please just be happy with that. 

Katherine and Eddie have great chemistry - so much more than Eddie and Delilah. I thought that Katherine knew the baby was probably his. 

Maggie and what's his name. Gary. So now she's in the clear, they can't just be happy. He has to be a rescuer, not just in love with her. Come on. 

[HazelEyes4325]

14 hours ago, Anela said:

Katherine and Eddie have great chemistry - so much more than Eddie and Delilah. I thought that Katherine knew the baby was probably his. 

 

I kind of got that feeling too.  I mean, Katherine is the only functioning adult on this show and she's clearly a very smart woman.  She can do math and even though she was told the baby was Jon's and Eddie didn't correct her when she repeated it to him, she is savvy enough to realize that Delilah is more than capable enough to lie about the paternity of the precious life.  In other words, I suspect she understands that Regina was repeating the truth she was told and even if Eddie did know differently, at least he's coming clean now.

At least that's what I like to tell myself.

[cardigirl]

For all the talk we've had on this thread of what we hope this show might be able to handle about depression, suicide, love and more, I want to recommend a show I thought handled a lot of those topics really well. If you have time, check out After Life on Netflix.  I really enjoyed it.  

[SunnyBeBe]

 I hate to nit pick, but, I've never known of a Separation/Property Settlement Agreement or Divorce law suit that did not REQUIRE the signatures to be notarized.  Not sure why that bugged me. 

[HazelEyes4325]

24 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 I hate to nit pick, but, I've never known of a Separation/Property Settlement Agreement or Divorce law suit that did not REQUIRE the signatures to be notarized.  Not sure why that bugged me. 

It's another example of how Nash doesn't expect the audience to actually *think* about his show.  I don't get it.  I mean, I think about shows I like so why would he not want his audience to think about it?  Nash is certainly not the only showrunner to fall victim to this, but the sorts of things he gets wrong are so, well, basic, that I really wonder who thought it was a good reason to let him do a show on his own.

There are shows I don't think about--well, there is currently one show I enjoy and don't think about.  But that show is funny (I can forgive a lot if it makes me laugh) and I made the conscious decision to just accept it as silly and go with it...and give my brain a break. 

AMLT rarely makes me laugh and isn't a show I can accept as silly, so I'm either going to think about it, be frustrated with the sloppiness, and hope it will improve....or turn it off.  There is no middle ground for me.

[jhlipton]

21 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 I hate to nit pick, but, I've never known of a Separation/Property Settlement Agreement or Divorce law suit that did not REQUIRE the signatures to be notarized.  Not sure why that bugged me. 

I think most shows just have an un-notarized signature.  I know Greenleaf did as well.

[debraran]

21 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

It's another example of how Nash doesn't expect the audience to actually *think* about his show.  I don't get it.  I mean, I think about shows I like so why would he not want his audience to think about it?  Nash is certainly not the only showrunner to fall victim to this, but the sorts of things he gets wrong are so, well, basic, that I really wonder who thought it was a good reason to let him do a show on his own.

There are shows I don't think about--well, there is currently one show I enjoy and don't think about.  But that show is funny (I can forgive a lot if it makes me laugh) and I made the conscious decision to just accept it as silly and go with it...and give my brain a break. 

AMLT rarely makes me laugh and isn't a show I can accept as silly, so I'm either going to think about it, be frustrated with the sloppiness, and hope it will improve....or turn it off.  There is no middle ground for me.

I know with standard old soaps, General Hospital etc. no one cared if  accuracy existed but I thought with nighttime soaps, if this is what it is and not just a "drama" then he should try to at least put throwaway lines in to say something was done. I do expect more of a show than just a mystery, even Columbo was pretty accurate when it had to be  ; )

I think paperwork is boring but you can't have Ashley doing something she really can't do or you think everyone watching is too young or naive or stupid to understand it? Even if you say it's a fun ride, like a roller coaster,not as serious as TIU, I think it's insulting to have numerous areas that are never addressed. Maybe in season 2 he will have more of an outline but he still needs to have those mysteries and clues which to me, diminishes the acting talent he has. Ron Livingston blamed it on Nash being a comedy writer before, he can't just do a serious show, but you picked suicide and depression, it could have been just about 4 friends and having them all sleep together and have typical encounters. Nash said when asked about Ron, he loved him more off screen than on because he kept his secrets all that time and was professional. Really, he thinks that's his strong point, he thinks that is remarkable? He's always bringing it up. I doubt Ron thought it was difficult at all. 😉.

In my humble opinion, I think he had a good idea, but the suicide, the jumping was to bring in viewers, like people watch accidents, and then it was intriguing but faded out over time. He let Jon sit and his office was never cleaned out, his apartment was stagnant for 7 months (still can't comprehend that) and no one ever talked about money or Life ins after D got her home back from the bank.  Life went on. That is why the 911 stuff fell flat for me, not 911, but how it was brought about and rushed just to show Barbara pregnant and tidy up what he felt were loose ends.

I have a feeling a good deal of Fall will be PJ and Eddie and Katherine  and D and the baby. Then baby will go away and it will be Regina's past and refusal to give Rome his baby, then for December finale, Ashley will return.  We will see. 

I still hope for some more Jon and showing how suicide effects the family and how they view themselves and deal with sadness. It comes in ripples and doesn't always hit hard in the beginning.

[HazelEyes4325]

23 minutes ago, debraran said:

I know with standard old soaps, General Hospital etc. no one cared if  accuracy existed but I thought with nighttime soaps, if this is what it is and not just a "drama" then he should try to at least put throwaway lines in to say something was done. I do expect more of a show than just a mystery, even Columbo was pretty accurate when it had to be  ; )

2

I get that no show is 100% accurate and if it were just signatures or just an OB doing an exam she would never normally do or whatnot, it wouldn't bother me.  But the number of times these things happen here is just too high for a show and, every time I see another sloppy error like this, it erodes a bit more of my remaining trust in the show. 

I feel that if I am giving 44 minutes of my life to a show every week, it isn't too much to ask that the writers take the time to deal with the details.

[debraran]

4 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I get that no show is 100% accurate and if it were just signatures or just an OB doing an exam she would never normally do or whatnot, it wouldn't bother me.  But the number of times these things happen here is just too high for a show and, every time I see another sloppy error like this, it erodes a bit more of my remaining trust in the show. 

I feel that if I am giving 44 minutes of my life to a show every week, it isn't too much to ask that the writers take the time to deal with the details.

I agree, it's not a documentary or that type of show, but don't make a mockery out of it, don't be sloppy. It really doesn't take a lot of effort.

Off topic but I do like how Call the Midwife on Netflix does very believable deliveries and exams. I don't need to see someone actually doing it, been there, but they deserve the honors received for a great show.  My daughter commented on Chicago Med I think, why was the doctor holding a doll, I said, It's a baby, and she said, they have much more believable dolls than that. (it was bad) That was another "just don't care" moment and most wouldn't care but they could have tried a little more.

[jhlipton]

23 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

There are shows I don't think about--well, there is currently one show I enjoy and don't think about.  But that show is funny (I can forgive a lot if it makes me laugh) and I made the conscious decision to just accept it as silly and go with it...and give my brain a break. 

I have two, and they're very different from each other: Gotham is dark and mindless;  Legends of Tomorrow is silly and mindless.  Neither bears much thinking about what's going on.  "It's Gotham, Jim!"

[debraran]

I was looking at tons of photos on a MLT fanpage, the time, effort and desire to enlarge photos and screenshot show later to look at things amazes me. They have photos of pics from photo albums from when Ashley was looking at it, Jon with longer hair Dave or other person, very large blowups on statues, books, etc.  That said, do you think it was Nash's attempt to make it seem like Jon and Barb were an "item" to have every photo with him and her together or her leaning on him? I mean there wasn't any of her and the other guy? There was one with her behind the couch and Jon and another guy and she still was more on his end.  Mute point now but if that much effort was put in to throwing people off, it seems odd. Only two were shown a lot but others the prop people put in were the same. Or who knows, maybe another change in plans that strayed from original idea. The diehard fans think its "picky" to say Jon's apartment went untouched for 7 months, but I feel it's a huge leap for any show to think that is normal.

I wonder if Barbara will ever see them?  This one shows just the guys, I hope Nash pays honor to Dave by giving him a life, a parent, someone, so he is remembered as a person, not someone to erase from memory and if PJ is his biological son, that he knows his history.

Edited March 17, 2019 by debraran

[alexvillage]

On 3/10/2019 at 10:52 PM, Anela said:

Katherine and Eddie have great chemistry - so much more than Eddie and Delilah

I see this a lot, in other shows I watch. some character don't have chemistry with any of the others. I think Delilah is one of those. I think it has a lot to do with acting, at least in the cases I see at the moment. Actors who are between really bad and low-average are just bad at finding the right connection. Or they can only act with one other actor. Or they can be ok in scenes that don't requite interacting.

The actor who plays Eddie is ok. The one who plays Delilah is bad. Grace Park is good, the best in the cast in my opinion. So she can pull average actors to the high end. Delilah - Meh. Lost case. Saw her in a small part in another show. Same thing. Not impressed at all.

File that under musings that might not make sense at all - or under I am here waiting for something and decided to play armchair acting coach.

[HazelEyes4325]

 

 

 

2

11 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I see this a lot, in other shows I watch. some character don't have chemistry with any of the others. I think Delilah is one of those. I think it has a lot to do with acting, at least in the cases I see at the moment. Actors who are between really bad and low-average are just bad at finding the right connection. Or they can only act with one other actor. Or they can be ok in scenes that don't requite interacting.

I always wonder how much is involved in getting a job.  I've heard of actors having to test several times for a role and others who are offered a role over lunch (obviously, experience and notoriety probably play a part in the difference between those two experiences).  I would think that, with a show like this, testing actors together would be a good idea...but I don't think that happens, which is too bad.  I honestly think that a different actress playing Delilah could have really helped the show.

[alexvillage]

12 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I always wonder how much is involved in getting a job.  I've heard of actors having to test several times for a role and others who are offered a role over lunch (obviously, experience and notoriety probably play a part in the difference between those two experiences).  I would think that, with a show like this, testing actors together would be a good idea...but I don't think that happens, which is too bad.  I honestly think that a different actress playing Delilah could have really helped the show.

I don't know how they do these things but I suspect that some actors are already the choice of producers and get it easy. If they have to "formally" test I have no idea. Some actors are also hired because of some "buzz" around them - as in spin offs when a character is supposed to attract more audience with a story of their own. And then there is the Hollywood baseline for "beauty and attraction", or the desire of pairing two actors together because they are "hot" at the moment.

Of course, shows start with a story and some creators manage to keep their  vision about the characters when choosing the cast. But they rarely get to control it all.

Aaaaaaand there is the role of the agent. Some actors pay way too much to agents (who dispatch their publicists that can even engage with paparazzi types to get their clients in the news and generate the kind of talk they want) to get them in parts and then we end up wondering why they are there at all.

I have a lot of opinions about how things happen in Hollywood. I know some are true, others I just assume based on things I hear (I know people in the lower caste of the business, and a couple of great writers who are not even in Hollywood because they refused to play the game). Maybe that's why I never fall for the "OMG so-and-so is such a great actor"! or "Best!Show!Ever!". I am so horrible, I disagree with nearly every award the shows and actors get, even when I like them.

[Clanstarling]

14 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I always wonder how much is involved in getting a job.  I've heard of actors having to test several times for a role and others who are offered a role over lunch (obviously, experience and notoriety probably play a part in the difference between those two experiences).  I would think that, with a show like this, testing actors together would be a good idea...but I don't think that happens, which is too bad.  I honestly think that a different actress playing Delilah could have really helped the show.

I know they test for chemistry in movies sometimes. I don't know about TV. But it would be a good idea.