S05.E10: The Flash & The Furious

[Froippi]

This episode was so boring I did sorta of like Cisco sub plot a bit but overall this was a bad episode next week looks promising though 

 

the conversation with thawne and that clock was interesting to 

also Sherloque finding out Nora deleted entries from Gideon 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Froippi

[Trini]

Yeah, the countdown clock is interesting. Which episode will show the end of the countdown? I think it will have to be an episode some time before the finale, so, 18,19, 20? Then the fallout of whatever happens is dealt with in the finale.

[BkWurm1]

Something else that was off about this episode.  

Cisco is ranting about being all alone and claims that even Caitlin has Killer Frost for family.  First of all, Cisco is not an orphan but more so it's an incredible stretch to count Killer Frost as family in the same category as a spouse or a child.  

Edited January 17, 2019 by BkWurm1

[Trini]

Behind the scenes:

[BkWurm1]

10 minutes ago, Trini said:

Behind the scenes:

Figured.  At least we got him super into Mick's book.  That was fun.

[BeautifulFlower]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Behind the scenes:

Shouldn't people know this already? Then again, this is the first episode where Barry was missing for a significant amount

[tennisgurl]

I hope that, like Bebo, Micks novel becomes a running gag spanning the entire Arrowverse. Or, they can make the book for real to be bought by fans! I would 100% buy that novel. 

The lesson that Nora learned was so weird in the way that it was framed. Learning that people are capable of change is a good lesson, and giving people who want a second chance one is also good, especially as they specifically mentioned Leonard and Mick as examples of former bad guys who people gave a chance to, and become good guys. However, they are also pretty clearly showing Nora as being gullible at best and shady at worst when dealing with Thawne, and she is justifying her working with him for some probably evil goal because of the advice that her dad gave her about giving people second chances. I cant imagine the show actually giving that asshole a second chance (even if they wont just kill him because of reasons), so what is the message here? 

[Trini]

3 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Shouldn't people know this already? Then again, this is the first episode where Barry was missing for a significant amount

Not everyone follows behind the scenes stuff. And it's good to get confirmation directly from the cast/crew.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Not everyone follows behind the scenes stuff. And it's good to get confirmation directly from the cast/crew.

I'm always amazed by the tv viewers that just watch and aren't at all savvy to how this kind of thing works. I'm still running into people on Twitter wondering where Joe is.  

[mac123x]

Cisco's plotline what nine kinds of stupid.  Seriously, he of the ridiculous pop-culture knowledge can't recognize the story from X-3:  The Last Stand?  Granted it was a shit movie and maybe he didn't see it, but come on, making a cure for mutants metas and saying "we'll never use it against someone's will" is a promise they can't keep. 

They kept referencing Snart -- doesn't Cisco remember that he made Captain Cold's gun specifically to use against other speedsters, and Snart immediately stole it and used it against Barry?  The cure is going to be weaponized, and it's going to be used against Barry and/or Nora by season's end. 

[SimoneS]

I actually think that it would be a good thing if the meta-criminals who are tried and found guilty of their crimes are given the cure that Cisco develops as part of their punishment, but you just know it won't go way. Rather ARGUS or some government will get hold on it and start using it on metas. ARGUS is already secretly experimenting on metas to try and weaponize their abilities.

[steelyis]

On 1/15/2019 at 6:22 PM, bettername2come said:

So, the Legends won't come home for crossover shenanigans, but they'll visit to drop off Mick's book? That's so Legend - wait for it - dary.

 

Boooo!

 

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I actually think that it would be a good thing if the meta-criminals who are tried and found guilty of their crimes are given the cure that Cisco develops as part of their punishment, but you just know it won't go way. Rather ARGUS or some government will get hold on it and start using it on metas. ARGUS is already secretly experimenting on metas to try and weaponize their abilities.

 

I hope they don't end up using the "cure" as a punishment. First of all, the cure always ends up "in the wrong hands." Secondly, this show has issues with its characters not acknowledging people's rights to the point it was distracting.

If they use the cure on matas who want early parole, fine, otherwise it's just a huge violation of civil rights and body autonomy.

[BkWurm1]

On 1/17/2019 at 8:57 PM, mac123x said:

Cisco's plotline what nine kinds of stupid.  Seriously, he of the ridiculous pop-culture knowledge can't recognize the story from X-3:  The Last Stand?  Granted it was a shit movie and maybe he didn't see it, but come on, making a cure for mutants metas and saying "we'll never use it against someone's will" is a promise they can't keep. 

They kept referencing Snart -- doesn't Cisco remember that he made Captain Cold's gun specifically to use against other speedsters, and Snart immediately stole it and used it against Barry?  The cure is going to be weaponized, and it's going to be used against Barry and/or Nora by season's end. 

Technically didn't he make it to use against Barry just in case he went evil?  Oops

[GHScorpiosRule]

Finally got around to seeing this and two things stuck out for me:

No WAY IN HELL would Bruce Wayne agree to give the government* or quasi-military* what have yous any part of Wayne Tech for whatever they wanted.

That was one stupid speech by Cisco regarding why he wanted to be normal. I’m referring specifically about his line about his loved ones fearing if he would ever come home/in danger. THAT is something every wife/husband/SO/Partner/child of a cop, Fed, etc. worries about. So is he saying only those with no families suit up? 😒😒😒😒 And what if the wife he eventually gets is a Meta who DOESN’T want to give up her powers?

Nora is beyond stupid. And I couldn’t believe that crap coming out of Barry’s mouth about there being some good in Thawne.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

*Batman/Superman: “World’s Finest” Bruce refusing to allow government any of his Tech, and telling Lex to tell the Pentagon that he (Bruce) ”Just doesn’t have the imagination.”

Edited January 21, 2019 by GHScorpiosRule

[Trini]

On 1/17/2019 at 9:57 PM, mac123x said:

...but come on, making a cure for mutants metas and saying "we'll never use it against someone's will" is a promise they can't keep. 

Yep. I think this will be the real story later on in the season. Whether it's the cure getting away from the Team's control, or the dilemma of using it or not. Or both. There were holes in the subplot in this episode, but I think the main takeaways were introducing the metahuman cure, and giving a reason why a meta would take it. The thing is, the show is NOT good at dealing with ethical/moral dilemmas.

Also I feel like the stakes are low for the Team Flash (and therefore the whole arc). Maybe it will change later in the season, but I feel like no one on the Team is in danger of losing their powers (permanently). It's only going to affect guest stars just like DeVoe's killing spree last year. We'll see.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Trini
Ack! dropped "not"

[Cthulhudrew]

On 1/17/2019 at 4:05 PM, BkWurm1 said:

Figured.  At least we got him super into Mick's book.  That was fun.

I thought Barry's scenes looked like they weren't filmed at the same time as the other players. Especially seemed clear when they had Nora sitting so far away from his cell in the pipeline. Usually they shoot those scenes much closer.

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No WAY IN HELL would Bruce Wayne agree to give the government* or quasi-military* what have yous any part of Wayne Tech for whatever they wanted.

Chalk it up to Bruce being missing maybe? Something that happened between his disappearance and Kate Kane stepping in to take over Wayne Enterprises.

[SimoneS]

Considering it was ARGUS that had the car, it does seem very possible that it stole the technology from Wayne Tech.

Edited January 21, 2019 by SimoneS

[BkWurm1]

19 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Considering it was ARGUS that had the car, it does seem very possible that it stole the technology from Wayne Tech.

I just wish they'd lean full on into ARGUS going evil.  They've always been shady but they keep doing things and acquiring tech that seems like stuff a super villain would want.  

[TwistedandBored]

I am at a loss at why they are writing Nora like she is a teenager. They act like she never had to make a hard choice before in her life. Also, this cure thing is really not gonna go well. 

[SevenStars]

7 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

I am at a loss at why they are writing Nora like she is a teenager. They act like she never had to make a hard choice before in her life. Also, this cure thing is really not gonna go well. 

I think Nora is written this way so they can show Iris and Barry parenting her, teaching her things. They thought it would be funny, fun and entertaining to watch Barry and Iris parenting a grown ass woman. It's not because it is problematic and make no sense. 

It's problematic for me because it is ugly to see the narrative that grown ass women needs to be parenting, need to be told what to do, what is right and wrong. It reinforces the idea that no matter how old a women is, they can't use their brains to make adult like decisions. That they need to be treated like children. 

It makes no sense because the writers want us to believe that Nora has reach this age, have a grandpa like Joe, who we have seen is always eager to teach life lessons, and be raised by a mother like Iris, who we have seen be prepare and ready to teach Nora life lessons even when Nora was giving her the cold shoulder. It makes it seems like Iris was not such a good mother and Nora wasn't surrounded by the West family.

I'm sure the writers never intended for this type of writing to be problematic, never even view it the way I do, but it is for me.  As for the second implication, only time will tell if they intended for us to view Nora's behavior as a result of bad parenting and lack West family members in her life. 

[TwistedandBored]

6 hours ago, SevenStars said:

I think Nora is written this way so they can show Iris and Barry parenting her, teaching her things. They thought it would be funny, fun and entertaining to watch Barry and Iris parenting a grown ass woman. It's not because it is problematic and make no sense. 

It's problematic for me because it is ugly to see the narrative that grown ass women needs to be parenting, need to be told what to do, what is right and wrong. It reinforces the idea that no matter how old a women is, they can't use their brains to make adult like decisions. That they need to be treated like children. 

It makes no sense because the writers want us to believe that Nora has reach this age, have a grandpa like Joe, who we have seen is always eager to teach life lessons, and be raised by a mother like Iris, who we have seen be prepare and ready to teach Nora life lessons even when Nora was giving her the cold shoulder. It makes it seems like Iris was not such a good mother and Nora wasn't surrounded by the West family.

I'm sure the writers never intended for this type of writing to be problematic, never even view it the way I do, but it is for me.  As for the second implication, only time will tell if they intended for us to view Nora's behavior as a result of bad parenting and lack West family members in her life. 

They could have had Nora be parented by both Iris and Barry without having her act like a teenager. There are so many fictional mediums that have done the child goes back to be with parents storylines without it taking away from the character. Also, they could have reduced her age to 19 years instead of 20s. I think Barry was gone for like 20 years. They could have had Iris find out she was pregnant after he was gone which would have helped them with all of this issues they face now. 

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

They could have had Nora be parented by both Iris and Barry without having her act like a teenager. There are so many fictional mediums that have done the child goes back to be with parents storylines without it taking away from the character. Also, they could have reduced her age to 19 years instead of 20s. I think Barry was gone for like 20 years. They could have had Iris find out she was pregnant after he was gone which would have helped them with all of this issues they face now. 

Barry was gone for 25 years so the youngest Nora could be is 24 years old.

Edited January 23, 2019 by SimoneS

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Barry was gone for 25 years so the youngest Nora could be is 24 years old.

Barry is still gone. And it's been established that Nora was around three or four when he vanished. She's supposed to be in her late 20's.

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Barry is still gone. And it's been established that Nora was around three or four when he vanished. She's supposed to be in her late 20's.

Then the show didn't give itself any wriggle room with Nora's age.

[TwistedandBored]

On 1/22/2019 at 9:52 PM, SimoneS said:

Barry was gone for 25 years so the youngest Nora could be is 24 years old.