The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Trini]

21 hours ago, iarwain said:

That's true, but I still think the more respect the writer has for the source material, the more chance it has to be successful.  That doesn't mean it has to be a 100% faithful adaptation, but it shouldn't be trashed either. 

I agree -- to a certain extent. But I'd also argue that sometimes the 'source material' isn't all that awesome, and could use an update; especially when adapting it to a new medium, for a wider, modern audience.

[iarwain]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

I agree -- to a certain extent. But I'd also argue that sometimes the 'source material' isn't all that awesome, and could use an update; especially when adapting it to a new medium, for a wider, modern audience.

Sure, but I don't think the original Marvel material would be included in that description, they were enjoyable and revolutionary.  Of course anything could be updated, and you wouldn't want to follow old stories frame by frame, but keep the basics and the spirit that made it popular in the first place.

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, iarwain said:

The Ultimates (Ultimate Avengers) was a very interesting take, and popular.  The rebooted X-Men were far more popular than the originals, and they fit the concept.  They even included some members of the original team, and brought them all in eventually.  The Ultimate version of Spider-Man led to Miles Morales, also popular

The only thing I remember from reading the Ultimates comics was that Hank Pym was clearly abusive to Janet, not in an ambiguous way the had meant for it to be in the regular comics continuity. And that Wanda and Pietro had an incestous relationship. Seems like those storylines were way more disrespectful to the source material than anything in the movies. Also unfortunately a lot of people would probably think that a Black, Puerto Rican Spider man would also be disrespectful.

[JustHereForFood]

Movies can both be appealing to the hardcore comic fans and attract new fans (see early MCU).

In the same way, using one female character does not take away from other characters. Why are people acting like it's a zero-sum game?

[iarwain]

On 12/22/2024 at 8:04 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

And that Wanda and Pietro had an incestous relationship. 

Makes you wonder if they had read A Game of Thrones.

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, iarwain said:

Makes you wonder if they had read A Game of Thrones.

The Strucker twins were implied to be getting their Lannister on far before GOT. Plus, y'know, there are plenty of historical examples.

[iarwain]

7 hours ago, Anduin said:

The Strucker twins were implied to be getting their Lannister on far before GOT. Plus, y'know, there are plenty of historical examples.

Not sure what you mean here.  Are you saying incest was implied in the main Marvel Universe (Earth-616)?  I agree they were unusually close, not so sure about incest though.  Anyway, the novel A Game of Thrones came out well before the Ultimates.

[arc]

On 12/22/2024 at 5:04 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

The only thing I remember from reading the Ultimates comics was that Hank Pym was clearly abusive to Janet, not in an ambiguous way the had meant for it to be in the regular comics continuity.

In 1610 (Ultimate Universe), Hank Pym was clearly abusive, yes. But in 616, he really did hit Janet very hard. That was also definitely abusive. I think Stan Lee said he had suggested something less intense, but the Marvel way at the time was loose plots to the penciller, who was trained to draw maximum action all the time. So it came back more violent than what Stan Lee intended, but that is what got published. (Deadlines were too tight to redraw it.)

[Kel Varnsen]

2 minutes ago, arc said:

I think Stan Lee said he had suggested something less intense, but the Marvel way at the time was loose plots to the penciller, who was trained to draw maximum action all the time. So it came back more violent than what Stan Lee intended, but that is what got published. (Deadlines were too tight to redraw it.)

Yea that was my understanding too which is what I was getting at. I don't think Lee was the writer then (I looker it up and it was Jim Shooter). But yea it was supposed to be a lot less clear that it was intentional abuse in the mainline universe. But in Ultimates it was a lot more clear (doesn't he have an army of ants attack her). But if people want to talk about respecting storylines, the Ultimate line was way more of a change from the main universe than anything in the movies.

[Anduin]

8 hours ago, iarwain said:

Not sure what you mean here.  Are you saying incest was implied in the main Marvel Universe (Earth-616)?  I agree they were unusually close, not so sure about incest though.  Anyway, the novel A Game of Thrones came out well before the Ultimates.

Yes, the Struckers were being creepy before either the Lannisters or Maximoffs.

[iarwain]

1 hour ago, Anduin said:

Yes, the Struckers were being creepy before either the Lannisters or Maximoffs.

Well, maybe that's why it worked in the Ultimates.

[arc]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

But if people want to talk about respecting storylines, the Ultimate line was way more of a change from the main universe than anything in the movies.

Well yeah, the original comics still exist, esp in a post-scarcity world (well, at least for digital goods). The only point of making Ultimate Universe comics would be to do something new.

Also, yes, sorry, Jim Shooter, not Stan Lee.

[Perfect Xero]

On 12/24/2024 at 4:51 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Yea that was my understanding too which is what I was getting at. I don't think Lee was the writer then (I looker it up and it was Jim Shooter). But yea it was supposed to be a lot less clear that it was intentional abuse in the mainline universe. But in Ultimates it was a lot more clear (doesn't he have an army of ants attack her). But if people want to talk about respecting storylines, the Ultimate line was way more of a change from the main universe than anything in the movies.

 

The Ultimates turned the scene up to 11, but the idea that it was just an art mistake people made too much out of doesn't work if you read the actual comic in question.

Even if the actual shot of Hank hitting Jan was an art mistake, it happens literally a page after Hank had his unstoppable adamantium robot attack her, during which he taunts her and calls her weak when she's not able to fight it off while it's hurting her. Afterwards he bullies her into not telling anyone.

He also snapped at and insulted Jan earlier in the issue (and in the issue before as well). When Jan reveals her black eye to the Avengers Hank tells her to shut up and calls in his killer robot to attack.

This is one of the reasons that I'll forever be bitter that the MCU had Iron Man create Ultron and not Hank Pym. Meanwhile it's at least a little gross that MCU Hank gets to be the "boy he sure loves his wife and daughter" guy.

Longer Avengers v1 #213 recap, by me:

Spoiler

In the issue in question Hank is facing a court marshal by the Avengers because (in the previous issued) he attacked an opponent who had already ceased hostilities and was talking things out with Captain America.

Jan tries to comfort him and he insults her, but she forgives him when he apologizes. (Which Tigra witnesses and wonders when Jan is going to wise up and realize what a loser Hank is). Then we get a couple of pages of him being sad that people like her better and that she's richer than him and pays for everything.

Hank goes to his lab and creates an unstoppable robot with a "weak spot" only he knows about so it can attack the Avengers and he can save the day to prove he belongs on the team.

Jan is worried about Hank and goes to check on him in his lab, he finds out she's there, accuses her of spying, then has his robot attack her. He taunts her that her "little stings" are useless against it before he deactivates the robot and tells her his plan.

She tries to talk him out of it, which is when the "art mistake" happens, he then shows no remorse for having hit her and tells her she'd better go along with his plan.

At the trial he goes on a rant where he blames Captain America for him blasting the lady in the back and tries to get Jan to speak in his defense.

At this point Jan finally has enough and reveals her black eye to the Avengers. Hank then tells Jan to shut up and calls in his killer robot.

Hank Pym, being Hank Pym, is too useless to actually hit the weak spot while it's beating on the Avengers and the robot turns on him. Jan is the one who steps in and saves him. Afterwards he's more upset that Jan was the one who saved him than for the damage he's caused.

 

[tv echo]

Recorded at NY Comic Con on Oct 20...

Marvel vs DC Popversus Panel - who is better? with Fabian Nicieza & Marc Guggenheim | NYCC
Popverse   posted Dec 27, 2024

Quote

... On one side we have Deadpool co-creator Fabien Nicieza speaking on behalf of Marvel, and Arrow and DC's Legends of Tomorrow co-showrunner Marc Guggenheim representing DC. ....

[tv echo]

Instagram post on Dec. 29th by DIFRNT, a fitness center in Australia (go to link to see pic)...

https://www.instagram.com/p/DEKD2tmRCKP/ 

Quote

dfrnt.hq 🎥 👀 DAREDEVIL SPOTTED AT DFRNT 👀 🎥

It’s been Awesome having Charlie and his wife, Sam Cox in at DFRNT over the past few weeks! Charlie is currently training for his role in the upcoming @marvel Avengers movie where he will play @daredevil.

It’s been our absolute pleasure working with you both and we can’t wait to watch you on the big screen!

See you soon 😎

Edited December 30, 2024 by tv echo

[tv echo]

THUNDERBOLTS* Star Sebastian Stan Teases MCU Future: [I'm] Not Captain America...Yet"
By Josh Wilding   Dec 30, 2024
https://comicbookmovie.com/captain-america/thunderbolts-star-sebastian-stan-teases-mcu-future-im-not-captain-americayet-a215330#gs.iwrxtm 

Quote

Appearing at Tokyo Comic-Con this weekend, Sebastian Stan lifted Cap's shield and, much to the delight of fans in attendance, he teased: "Not Captain America...yet." 

[tv echo]

What to Expect From Marvel Studios in 2025
By Lauren Rouse   Dec 31, 2024
https://gamerant.com/marvel-studios-new-mcu-movies-series-2025/

In Theaters:
February 14 - Captain America: Brave New World
May 2 - Thunderbolts*
July 25 - The Fantastic Four: First Steps

Streaming on Disney+:
January 29 - Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man (animated)
March 4 - Daredevil Born Again 
June 24 - Ironheart
August 6 - Eyes of Wakanda (animated) 
October 3 - Marvel Zombies 
December ? - Wonder Man 

[tv echo]

Bucky and Gamora Sebastian Stan and Zoe Saldana won Golden Globe awards last night (for their performances in A Different Man and Emilia Pérez, respectively)...

Golden Globes 2025 Winners: ‘Emilia Pérez’ Leads With 4 Wins; ‘Shogun’ Tops TV With 4
By Brent Lang, Jordan Moreau   Jan 5, 2025
https://variety.com/2025/film/news/golden-globes-2025-winners-emilia-perez-shogun-1236262416/ 

Quote

BEST PERFORMANCE BY A MALE ACTOR IN A MOTION PICTURE – MUSICAL OR COMEDY
JESSE EISENBERG (A REAL PAIN)
HUGH GRANT (HERETIC)
GABRIEL LABELLE (SATURDAY NIGHT)
JESSE PLEMONS (KINDS OF KINDNESS)
GLEN POWELL (HIT MAN)
SEBASTIAN STAN (A DIFFERENT MAN) (WINNER)

BEST PERFORMANCE BY A FEMALE ACTOR IN A SUPPORTING ROLE IN ANY MOTION PICTURE
SELENA GOMEZ (EMILIA PÉREZ)
ARIANA GRANDE (WICKED)
FELICITY JONES (THE BRUTALIST)
MARGARET QUALLEY (THE SUBSTANCE)
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI (CONCLAVE)
ZOE SALDAÑA (EMILIA PÉREZ) (WINNER)

Sebastian Stan Wins Best Male Actor – Motion Picture – Musical or Comedy | 82nd Annual Golden Globes
Golden Globes   Jan 5, 2025

Zoe Saldaña Wins Best Supporting Female Actor – Motion Picture | 82nd Annual Golden Globes
Golden Globes   Jan 5, 2025

Edited 12 hours ago by tv echo

[tv echo]

These guys are hilarious together...

Anthony Mackie TAKES OVER Sebastian Stan's Golden Globes Post-Win Interview! (Exclusive)
Entertainment Tonight   Jan 6, 2025