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Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

Lisin

By Lisin
in Characters of Arrow

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fantique
fantique

Ok peeps, this is a long one and full of meandering thoughts. Sorry about it, but only just a little. I have a good example of a really good actress that could not live on the audience's good will a

Ceylon5
Ceylon5

From Wikipedia (on characterisation):     Just because we're not directly told what to think about someone, it doesn't mean that we're not being given any characterisation.  In real life, we get t

KenyaJ
KenyaJ

I agree that it's bad pacing, but it's not that difficult for me to connect the dots and see how Felicity got from point A to point B. For almost two years, she's pretty much devoted her life to Olive

Tangerine

Tangerine

That gray dress with the red panels was actually one of my favorite things that Felicity wore all season!  Oddly enough, I didn't really like the same dress with the fluorescent yellow panels.  I like that they have Felicity wearing the same items in different colors because I think that this is something that happens in real life.  Shoes, jackets, shirts, it doesn't matter what it is, but if I find something that I like, I buy that damn thing in every color that they have!  I suppose that the wardrobe people don't need to do that with EBR because she is gorgeous and probably looks very good in whatever they dress her in, but out here in the real world it's hard for a woman to find flattering clothes.  Now I'm starting to becoming paranoid about this and wondering if other people are thinking it's strange that I have the same shirt in three colors... 

 

I have that grey dress! I work in a pretty corporate office environment and I get a lot of compliments on it when I wear it to work. The fit really does make a difference though as it's not the most...forgiving material. I actually bought it in 2 sizes larger than I usual wear because it's pretty tight. 

 

The only outfits that I thought weren't all that work appropriate in an office environment were the 'boob window' dress and the blue backless one. But then I tell myself "Well obviously, this is a CW show." Everything else I thought was perfectly fine for her position and for QC, and I love that they repeat shoes. I know that some people were disappointed that they tried to glam up Felicity, but she's a woman in her 20s and style changes. I know that I'm wearing clothes and outfits now that are a lot more trendy and that I never would have considered when I was younger. It happens, and I kind of like that about Felicity. It shows that a woman can be nerdy, super intelligent, into computers AND fashionable.

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TanyaKay

TanyaKay

^^^

I totally agree with you, that boob window dress was inappropriate and barring that, the rest were fine. I would even give pass to the backless one as I have seen women wearing back cut outs (esp this summer) in corporate environment.

The boob window dress was not only inappropriate as far as design is concerned but that color was also not office appropriate.

Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

I've seen a lot of people say that they were building a romance from the beginning with Felicty, but I don't believe thats the case at all. When the EPs talk about the connection that has been building for 43 episodes, I completely agree that it has, but I think it was unintended to the event that it was. S1 had always been presented as Oliver loves Laurel, granted his actions cast doubt on that but that was the line that the EPs were pushing. For them to now imply that Oliver was feeling this type of connection with Felicity, does a considerable amount of re-con on the O/L narrative. Narrative they didn't actually have to change because S2 was enough of a re-con on O/L already; Oliver stopped talking about Laurel on the island, had a relationship with Shado, the unflattering backstory for Oliver/Sara/Laurel. To me thats the best evidence that they have changed their endgame.

 

On another note, I love the way Stephen talks about Felicity and the Oliver and Felicity connection. That line at the last Con about if we can't take risks with our hearts, what are we here for. That was a great line and surprisingly romantic. Has Stephen every talked about Laurel like this? 

 

Now that Felicity is in the (declared) love interest role, I really hope they don't change how they write her character. Sometimes I think the added weight of the love interest encourages the writers to ump up the drama and while I can appreciate good angst, it has to make sense. I want them to write Felicity for Felicity and not for Oliver or Oliver/Felicity.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I've seen a lot of people say that they were building a romance from the beginning with Felicty, but I don't believe thats the case at all. When the EPs talk about the connection that has been building for 43 episodes, I completely agree that it has, but I think it was unintended to the event that it was.

Taking reply to relationship thread

  • Love 1
TanyaKay

TanyaKay

Now that Felicity is in the (declared) love interest role, I really hope they don't change how they write her character. Sometimes I think the added weight of the love interest encourages the writers to ump up the drama and while I can appreciate good angst, it has to make sense. I want them to write Felicity for Felicity and not for Oliver or Oliver/Felicity.

 

I think that writers have been writing Felicity for a good two years so they have a handle on her voice and how she thinks, I don't think they can or would change her drastically - I mean why fix something when it ain't broken, right?

Felicity is one thing that has drawn a lot of people to the show along with Team Arrow and of course the Arrow. If they care for their ratings (which they do) they will not make much of a difference to her character and if spoilers are to be believed, she is an active love interest for just one episode. She will remain the Felicity that we have all come to love and admire.

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Chaser

Chaser

I watched the clip that the cwarrow put up with EBR. I liked a lot of what she said in regards to Oliver Felicity being different but compliment each and talking first with her mouth. Prior to the babble comment though she says that Felicity acts with her heart first, I'm I the only one who actually finds Felicity more logical? 

 

I'm not saying she doesn't put her heart into situations, but I feel like she's a planner. 

  • Love 2
Password

Password

Prior to the babble comment though she says that Felicity acts with her heart first, I'm I the only one who actually finds Felicity more logical? 

 

I'm not saying she doesn't put her heart into situations, but I feel like she's a planner. 

 

I also thought so. I've always seen Felicity as very logical, taking into account different variables and as you said, planning. I think Felicity has a very pure heart, which allowed her to keep encouraging Oliver against killing in the face of everyone else telling him to kill Slade. I think the best example was when Oliver wanted to go after Cyrus Gold and Felicity threw some math at him then her feelings could be seen on the matter.

  • Love 1
Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

Another thing about Felicity, she does have flexible morality. I can think of scenes where she argues against killing: Early on when she peaces out in 1x15, at the beginning of 2x07 she gets reassuring he wasn't going to kill (and yes that went out the window - literally), and with Slade at the end of the season. But there are other times when she doesn't: 1x18 when she accepted Oliver going after that one Bad because she saw that evil, the start of S2 when she acknowledged the collateral damage, telling Oliver to go after Slade when he had Thea. 

 

In that way, I think Felicity can become situational; looking at each thing as they come and assessing it.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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AnalyzeAndCritique

AnalyzeAndCritique

Isabel and Felicity still make me LOL. Though I think thats because the EPs and SA head cannons were so different.

 

I doubt there was any planning involved. Some one probably just thought it would be funny - which it was. But don't just throw something like that in for laughs. I need back ground.

Are you referring to the EPs saying Isobel just hated Felicity because some people rub us the wrong way and Stephen saying it was because Oliver was thinking of Felicity while banging Isabel? 

 

Isabel literally became the biggest waste of dialogue and film. They completely butchered her. As much as I hated her presence on the show because of her attitude towards Felicity, I hate how impotent she became. She stole the company only because Slade pulled the strings. She was never a viable threat despite her name being in the book and Moira's warnings. 

wonderwall

wonderwall

I just imagine that EPs shaking their heads "Stephen, Stephen, Stephen" LOL

Lol I mean, what else would he think though? It wasn't obvious why Isabel hated Felicity so much, and I guess all Stephen could do was speculate. 

 

To think that he thought that Isabel hated Felicity because of Oliver shows that Stephen really does care about Oliver/Felicity and it's interesting to see that he thinks maybe Oliver felt a whole lot more than friendship in the first part of season 2. 

 

Hmm. I would really like to get into Stephen's head about his thoughts on Oliver/Felicity as well as his character. 

statsgirl

statsgirl

It seems to me that if Isabel didn't have Oliver's full attention, it was because he was thinking about getting Diggle out. But Isabel didn't know that so it would makes sense that she attributed it to Felicity, who she thought Oliver was also sleeping with.

 

Did Oliver look upset when Felicity found out?  I know he looked upset at the end back in QC's offices when it was obvious that she was hurt because while he didn't necessarily want to be with her, he didn't want her to be hurt either.

willpwr

willpwr

He looked guilty, he was smiling when he opened the door, stepped back in shock when his work wifey was there and instead of looking her in the eye, he looked down at the floor. He looked apologetic when he tried to explain which was interesting and then grimaced when she left which showed he knew he messed up. I couldn't find a gif except for this one of later which is funny IMO. tumblr_mw8k0q9nej1qch0kpo1_250.gif

Guest

Guest

Felicity's "we're still in Russia (you idiot)" is never not funny.

 

To me it seems more like he didn't want Felicity to think badly of him, as he wouldn't have wanted Diggle or Thea to either, not that he had any sexual or romantic feelings towards Felicity herself.

 

I think it was both. He didn't want her to know and he didn't want her to think badly of him because it's Isabel and they hadn't had the best relationship up to that point and suddenly he's sleeping with her?

 

And I think he did have sexual/romantic feelings for Felicity but I don't think he was fully aware of it at that moment. To me that realization came much much later in s2. 

wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

You know, I've been thinking about it, I've seen many people say that Felicity is the least developed/ 'flat' character on the show and some go beyond that to say that she's a mary-sue, I'd argue that she's more developed than people think she is. 
 
When I think of a developed character, I think of different elements such as a backstory, solid characterization, consistent personality etc. This can be done through both explicit (writers tell the audience what the character is like) and implicit characterization (where the audience understands a character through speech, actions, appearance etc.) While a backstory or a rich history is important in seeing an evolution of a character and how they became what they are right now, I don't believe it's necessary in order to have a well-developed character.
 
Backstory: Should play a role in enriching a character as well as fortifying characters personalities and characteristics, not defining characteristics.
 
So looking at it from this perspective, I don't think it matters that we don't know much of Felicity's backstory, what we do know though, is the fact that she has one and we'll be privy to it in a matter of a few weeks. So from going by what we already know of Felicity's past is that she comes from Nevada and her mother was a cocktail waitress and that her father walked out on her when she was young (probably causing some abandonment issues). But what we also know from this is Felicity's strength and determination by defying all expectations and going to MIT possibly financing her own schooling (through scholarships and possibly having multiple part time jobs because there's no way a cocktail waitress could pay for this). From what we can see just from a few sentences about her past, we can see that Felicity doesn't settle for less. So while we're told of Felicity's past and not shown it, it's easy to deduce Felicity's characteristics from those few sentences because we know who she is today.
 
Characterization:
 
With Felicity, you can immediately see that her backstory sort of reinforced what we already knew about her. While much of her characterization is implicit, we know that Felicity is an emotionally strong character who is determined and has issues with losing people who are close to her. We see her strength when she vows to stay by Oliver’s side during the undertaking, when she accepted being bait in the season 2 finale, etc. and with this we also see her determination whenever she’s behind a tablet or a computer screen. We see Felicity grapple with her abandonment issues when she wars over telling Oliver the truth because she can’t fathom losing another person who’s close to her. But her characterization goes beyond this. We know more about Felicity than we think.
 
Felicity has been shown (and sometimes through EBRs stellar acting) to be quirky (self explanatory), insecure (about her position on the team), jealous (Isabel, Shado), is sometimes blind to consequences (when she goes by herself to find the cure in the van, when she goes to the bank alone), loyal, compassionate (cries for Oliver at Moira's funeral), good, honest, is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve her goals, intelligent, brave (for simply being on the team), loving (the way she cares for Digg and Oliver), and a lot more. This list encapsulates just how far away Felicity is from being an under-developed/flat character. She's actually quite complex as you see she sometimes goes against her beliefs (she lies to Roy about what he did when he went crazy in order to save Starling) in order to achieve something bigger. 
 
Though some people believe that Felicity is a perfect character that can do no wrong, you can see that she has faults and has suffered the consequences of these faults (The count). You could even say she even learns from her mistakes because after Tockman, you didn’t see Felicity follow any leads by herself, not only that, Felicity has become more confident over the past season and this could be seen how she’d been less ramble-y. This is growth on her part, something that you never see in a flat character. Felicity's characteristics have been relatively consistent, this is why we simply know how Felicity would react to something or be surprised when she does something out of character. And this consistency is what makes her characteristics valid. 
 
Also, I’d like to say that Felicity is still growing as a character. In season 3, I hope to see Felicity understand that she has to have a life outside the team and Oliver, and I hope with that we see a lot more characterization from her. I honestly don't think we've seen the best of Felicity Smoak just yet. I just really hope season 3 does her justice by further mapping out her character. 
 
This was long. I apologize :p Have a cupcake for finishing this little essay!

Edited by wonderwall
  • Love 16
AnalyzeAndCritique

AnalyzeAndCritique

You know, I've been thinking about it, I've seen many people say that Felicity is the least developed/ 'flat' character on the show and some go beyond that to say that she's a mary-sue, I'd argue that she's more developed than people think she is.

When I think of a developed character, I think of different elements such as a backstory, solid characterization, consistent personality etc. This can be done through both explicit (writers tell the audience what the character is like) and implicit characterization (where the audience understands a character through speech, actions, appearance etc.) While a backstory or a rich history is important in seeing an evolution of a character and how they became what they are right now, I don't believe it's necessary in order to have a well-developed character.

Backstory: Should play a role in enriching a character as well as fortifying characters personalities and characteristics.

So looking at it from this perspective, I don't think it matters that we don't know Felicity's backstory, what we do know though, is the fact that she has one and we'll be privy to it in a matter of a few weeks. What we know of Felicity's past is that she comes from Nevada and her mother was a cocktail waitress and that her father walked out on her when she was young (probably causing some abandonment issues). But what we also know from this is Felicity's strength and determination by defying all expectations and going to MIT possibly financing her own schooling (through scholarships and possibly having multiple part time jobs because there's no way a cocktail waitress could pay for this). From what we can see just from a few sentences about her past, we can see that Felicity doesn't settle for less. So while we're told of Felicity's past and not shown it, it's easy to deduce Felicity's characteristics from those few sentences because we know who she is today.

Characterization:

With Felicity, you can immediately see that her backstory sort of reinforced what we already knew about her. While much of her characterization is implicit, we know that Felicity is an emotionally strong character who is determined and has issues with losing people who are close to her. We see her strength when she vows to stay by Oliver’s side during the undertaking, when she accepted being bait in the season 2 finale, etc. and with this we also see her determination whenever she’s behind a tablet or a computer screen. We see Felicity grapple with her abandonment issues when she wars over telling Oliver the truth because she can’t fathom losing another person who’s close to her. But her characterization goes beyond this. We know more about Felicity than people think.

Felicity has been shown (and sometimes through EBRs stellar acting) to be quirky (self explanatory), insecure (about her position on the team), jealous (Isabel, Shado), is sometimes blind to consequences (when she goes by herself to find the cure in the van, when she goes to the bank alone), loyal, compassionate (cries for Oliver at Moira's funeral), good, honest, is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve her goals, and there’s a lot more. This list encapsulates just how far away Felicity is from being an under-developed/flat character. She's actually quite complex as you see she sometimes goes against her beliefs (she lies to Roy about what he did when he went crazy in order to save Starling) in order to achieve something bigger.

Though some people see Felicity to be a perfect character that can do no wrong, you can see that she has faults and has suffered the consequences of these faults (The count). You could even say she even learns from her mistakes because after Tockman, you didn’t see Felicity follow any leads by herself, not only that, Felicity has become more confident over the past season and this could be seen how she’d been less ramble-y. This is growth on her part, something that you never see in a flat character.

Also, I’d like to say that Felicity is still growing as a character. In season 3, I hope to see Felicity understand that she has to have a life outside the team and Oliver, and I hope with that we see a lot more characterization from her. I honestly don't think we've seen the best of Felicity Smoak just yet. I just really hope season 3 does her justice by further mapping out her character.

This was long. I apologize :p Have a cupcake for finishing this little essay!

Word. I've never understood the argument "we don't know Felicity because we don't know a out her before she met Oliver or outside the Arrow cave." We've been given plenty of information about her. Enough to be able to guess what her response might be or if she is OOC (TOD).

Guest

Guest

CLAPS. Yeah, I've never understood that argument either. I've said before that EBR has taken what little she's been given and made her completely three dimensional. That's why I was never bothered that we hadn't had any backstory yet because I never felt like something was missing. Obviously I want to know more and it's time to learn more about her now but not once did I ever think Felicity wasn't a fully realized character.

Chaser

Chaser

I find it really funny that people say we need backstory on Felicity because her present it all Team Arrow/Oliver. But no one seems to care that Laurel's only backstory or flashbacks are about Oliver.

 

I'm glad Felicity is getting an episode. I'm glad we are getting flashbacks. I'm excited for it all. But we know who Felicity is regardless of them. And personally, I'm looking forward to the conversations she has the present. And the development we get to watch in real time.

  • Love 1
catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Wonderwall, I agree with your post about Felicity. I am so about characte development and consistent characterizations that for me if an actor keeps those things on track I can forgive lousy plots. That's why I love Dean Winchester, and why I loved Moira and on and on. Even when plots and story arcs go sideways, if I believe the character is still that character I will stick around. EBR has done great work with giving Felicity an inner life and real shading despite no real background info. 

Edited by catrox14
  • Love 1
statsgirl

statsgirl

I think the people who complain that Felicity isn't a developed character or that Oliver can't possible care for her because he doesn't know anything about her are those people who don't like her and don't like that she's so prominent on the show, taking Laurel's place.  In the present, Felicity is a beautifully multi-dimensional and consistent character.

 

We don't have a lot of backstory on Moira either (who was she before the flashbacks?  What was her role at QC?  Why did she take Robert's cheating?) but that doesn't keep her from being a fascinating character.  Kudos to both EBR and Susanna Thompson.

  • Love 7
KenyaJ

KenyaJ

Felicity's characteristics have been relatively consistent, this is why we simply know how Felicity would react to something or be surprised when she does something out of character. And this consistency is what makes her characteristics valid.

 

Excellent analysis, wonderwall. And this is the crux of the matter for me. In any situation, I feel like I can guess with a reasonable amount of certainty how Felicity will react. I hate to constantly be comparing Felicity and Laurel, but one of the reasons I don't enjoy watching Laurel is because her characterization is so inconsistent. I can't guess from episode to episode (and sometimes from scene to scene) how she's going to react to a situation. By contrast, I feel like Felicity has a core set of value and personality traits that I can identify and recognize enough to know when something she says or does is OOC. I can't say anything Laurel has ever done is OOC, because I still don't know who her character is. For every action she's taken and every thing she's said, you could identify a completely opposite thing she'd done or said.

 

I'm really excited to see Felicity's backstory, just because I love her and I want to know more about her, but I don't need the backstory to help me understand her better.

  • Love 4
ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

I like Felicity  and I like the lightness and atmosphere she brings to the show but I don't think she's a very developed character lol. I don't think Roy is very developed either and I liked him somewhat (until later in the 2nd season) We don't really know that much about her outisde of Team Arrow and I'm looking forward to her backstory this season. 

 

@statsgirl Moira is a lot more developed than Felicity. I don't think that's a good comparison.  

Edited by ban1o
dtissagirl

dtissagirl

@wonderwall -- I wish I could like your post another 100 times. :)

I only want Felicity to get a backstory episode because the show operates on flashbacks. But I certainly don't need them to understand her, or feel for her, or love the character.

I'm an avid fanfic reader, and one thing that always tells me how rich a character is is the amount of fic written about them that keeps a consistent voice across multiple writers and fic genres. Fandom has known Felicity for less than two years, and the amount of fic featuring her being recognizable as the same character from the show is *astounding*. For me that means she's a sturdly constructed character even without the backstory.

  • Love 4
wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

I like Felicity  and I like the lightness and atmosphere she brings to the show but I don't think she's a very developed character lol. I don't think Roy is very developed either and I liked him somewhat (until later in the 2nd season) We don't really know that much about her outisde of Team Arrow and I'm looking forward to her backstory this season. 

 

Lmao if you read my entire post and still think that she's an underdeveloped character then let's just agree to disagree :) (this is slowly becoming our motto here :p) 

 

I have a question though, what's your definition of a developed character? 

 

Also I agree, Roy is an extremely underdeveloped character. I barely know anything about him tbqh. 

Edited by wonderwall
statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

ban1o, I think Moira is a good character because of what Susanna Thompson brought to the role. But we know even less about Moira than we do about Felicity (she was married to a very rich man; she put up with his infidelities but she didn't like it; she will do anything to protect her family; she sat on committees but didn't appear to have a job until after Robert died; she blames herself for Robert's death because she is the one who convinced him to go against Malcolm;  she lies).  Thompson took those few bits of information and made Moira complex and fascinating.

 

In the same way, I think Felicity is complex. In addition to wonderwall's list, I'm struck by how often she is in conflict and has to deal with that. She's afraid of many things but does them because they need to be done (when I heard Ken Burns' description of Eleanor Roosevelt "she woke up afraid every morning and then got up and" did what needed to be done, I thought of Felicity.  She believes people should be given a chance to do better, but wants arrows in them when they have done bad things.  She accepts people for the best parts of who they are (e.g. Sara)  and wants them to be the best they can be (e.g. not telling Roy he killed a cop).  She encourages the people she cares about to be happy (pushing Diggle and Oliver to find love.  But it's all consistent and predictable from how we've seen her before, which is why I think she's complex and developed as a character.

Edited by statsgirl
  • Love 1
ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

Lmao if you read my entire post and still think that she's an underdeveloped character then let's just agree to disagree :) (this is slowly becoming our motto here :p) 

 

I have a question though, what's your definition of a developed character? 

 

Also I agree, Roy is an extremely underdeveloped character. I barely know anything about him tbqh. 

I think that a developed character is a character who has flaws and has motivations  of some sort and has some sort of background that influences what they are doing. Felicity doesn't really have many flaws. and but BEFORE season 3, besides the fact she went to MIT and was really good at hacking, I don't really know much about her life outside of the Arrow team at all. What does she do when not with Oliver or Diggle? Why is she so light-hearted a lot the time? What was she like growing up? Why exactly didn't she notify the police about all the Sketchy things Ollie were giving her? (SHe said it was because she trusted him, but why, I would have liked to recieve more info about this, is she just a trusting person in general, did something in her past make her trust someone like Oliver) . What is her family like? (I know they mentioned a few passing comments about her family, like her mother was a cocktail waitress and her dad was absent but I wonder how they affected Felicity, because she doesn't really seem to have any darkness to her.  WHy exactly did she continue stay on team arrow. I know at first she joined because of Walter, but what influenced her to continue assisting a murderer (To be fair though I wasn't 100% fine with Diggle's reasoning either so maybe that's just me) 

 

This isn't at all a slight at EBR. Her good  performance makes it easier for me to ignore all of these problems when watching her. The characters characterization is also good, and her emotions and reactions are somewhat consistent. (Moreso than other characters like Laurel) and I think most of the reason is just because they know she has a lot of fans so they didn't really need to include it right away.But I'm glad they are including it now, especially before they put her together with Oliver. 

Edited by ban1o
wonderwall

wonderwall

I hope you understand my explanation lol.  English isn't my first language and I struggle sometimes to explain what I mean. 

I think you speak wonderful english :) 

 

Also, I completely understand what you're saying. I suppose we both have different definitions of the word 'developed' and there's nothing wrong with that! Hopefully season 3 takes the opportunity to develop Felicity more by your definition. It certainly would add a lot more color to an already colorful character :)

catrox14

catrox14

What I find interesting is that IMO I feel like I know WHO Felicity is at heart. I don't have to know about her time at MIT and a hacker to get her.  I don't need to know about her parents to get her. 

 

And yet with Laurel we know practically every fucking thing about her whole life and and I still don't feel like I know who Laurel is.  IMO that's all on the actor and what kind of internal life they create for the character. 

  • Love 7

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