Little House On The Prairie - General Discussion

[Blergh]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

I just can't get past how very bad the history is in that episode. Even by 70s TV standards, it's particularly ridiculous. 😂😂😂😂

Not to mention that the Ingalls themselves seemed to react to these POVs of the US Civil War as though they'd grown up in the 1970's instead of the 1870's!  Hello, it had barely been a decade since Appomattox! And why did Charles and Jonathan sabotage the attempts of others to capture these notorious bank robbers- who had been willing to take Mary as a hostage for leverage to boot?!

[Zella]

16 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Not to mention that the Ingalls themselves seemed to react to these POVs of the US Civil War as though they'd grown up in the 1970's instead of the 1870's!

😂😂😂😂

I am admittedly a bit biased because The Assassination of Jesse James is one of my all-time favorite books and movies, but I find the real story of Bob starting out as basically a Jesse James groupie and trusted family friend (and then managing to do the shooting in such a way that everyone seemingly decided to forget what a vicious bastard Jesse James could be because it seemed so unfair on the surface) a lot more interesting than the ho-hum LHOTP vengeance spin.

Also they've got the richly ironic Northfield Raid story right there in Minnesota, and they decide to make them hole up in Walnut Grove and kidnap Mary instead. LMAO 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Zella

[CountryGirl]

18 hours ago, jason88cubs said:

I think THE AFTERMATH is probably one of my favorite episodes.

I like it, too. If for no other reason than we get to meet Chandler's dad aka John Bennett Perry. Whom we would see again (and not the Jesse seeing Bobby Ford again variety) when he worked with Laura on publishing Little House in the Big Woods.

I also found this hilarious recap in the process of finding this picture of Jesse (Mr. Dankworth) and Frank (Mr. Hobbs).

https://www.girlsgonewilder.org/?p=3491 

So I have some reading to do.

[Mr. Sparkle]

It's worth it for "Girls Gone Wilder" alone! 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I think this sums it up:

Quote

And so we started to bring up our favorite and most hated episodes. “God I hated Albert, didn’t you?” was one comment. “Why didn’t Albert just shut up and die?” was another. “Do you remember the raping clown?” “What about the episode where the blind school burns down and Mary’s baby gets smashed against the window?” “Oh wait, didn’t Albert cause that fire?” And so on.

[CountryGirl]

2 hours ago, Superclam said:

I think this sums it up:

They sound just like us. 

[jason88cubs]

The House the James boys was staying at,  did that end up being the blind school?

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, jason88cubs said:

The House the James boys was staying at,  did that end up being the blind school?

Yes. 

[jason88cubs]

13 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Yes. 

Thanks, thought so.

[Blergh]

Of course what's odd is that despite the Civil War becoming a hot topic with the James Brothers episode and in the Granville Whipple episode, the Ingallses NEVER say what Charles was doing during that time despite being a young, adult able-bodied US male citizen.

BTW, IRL, it's a bit of a mystery what Charles Ingalls (1836-1902) was doing and where he was supposed to be between 1860 when he was recorded having married Caroline Quiner and 1865 when their daughter Mary was born. I mean, researchers have found NO official  documentation, correspondences or written anecdotes hinting at Charles's activities during that time (and Mrs. Wilder seemed to avoid that period of his life altogether when writing about her family).  It's likely he was working on Minnesota  farms and around 1864, got together enough with Caroline to conceive Mary but there's no documentation spelling this out.

[SJC]

On 11/20/2022 at 1:15 PM, debraran said:

Michael Landon had started philandering on his wife with the show's make-up artist and Melissa Gilbert had stopped talking to him. So, he concocted this script to get back at her, where a man indecently propositions her (married) Laura Ingalls character.

What a charmer he must have been !  😝

10 hours ago, Blergh said:

it's a bit of a mystery what Charles Ingalls (1836-1902) was doing and where he was supposed to be between 1860 when he was recorded having married Caroline Quiner and 1865 when their daughter Mary was born.

I have wondered a lot about that. 

[CountryGirl]

Here is a Link to some more information about Charles and some other relatives of his and those of Caroline. Among other details, Charles was never drafted. 
 

[Blergh]

2 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Here is a Link to some more information about Charles and some other relatives of his and those of Caroline. Among other details, Charles was never drafted. 
 

Nor did he volunteer despite the fact that he and Caroline had no children until after the War!  While the show seemed to sidestep any onetime Union or Confederate soldiers (or their survivors) asking Charles what he might have been doing during that time, it's hard to believe that no one asked that question IRL!

[Zella]

Yeah I searched for a CSR (compiled service record) for Charles and found no Charles Ingalls who served in any Wisconsin regiment during the Civil War. (There are quite a few other Charles Ingalls serving in some other states, but I am pretty sure none of them are him.) 

Without letters or diaries from the time, it is hard to know the story behind Charles's decision. In my family tree, I have a family with 5 brothers, and 4 of them served (not always on the same side). But I have never found any service record for one of them. I'm assuming he sat it out entirely and would love to know more about it since I'm assuming there was likely considerable family and community pressure on him to serve if he was able-bodied. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Zella

[Blergh]

10 hours ago, Zella said:

Yeah I searched for a CSR (compiled service record) for Charles and found no Charles Ingalls who served in any Wisconsin regiment during the Civil War. (There are quite a few other Charles Ingalls serving in some other states, but I am pretty sure none of them are him.) 

Without letters or diaries from the time, it is hard to know the story behind Charles's decision. In my family tree, I have a family with 5 brothers, and 4 of them served (not always on the same side). But I have never found any service record for one of them. I'm assuming he sat it out entirely and would love to know more about it since I'm assuming there was likely considerable family and community pressure on him to serve if he was able-bodied. 

Not to mention, it's hard to believe that no one would have nagged (and possibly blamed) Caroline about his lack of service. However, Mrs. Wilder somehow didn't hint about of that either but just treated that five year gap as a room elephant when recounting her family's saga.

[Egg McMuffin]

I’m a little late in responding but I just want to say this: Jesse James was a mean, dirty killer. A mean, dirty killer. A mean, dirty killer…

[jason88cubs]

On 12/5/2022 at 12:02 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

I’m a little late in responding but I just want to say this: Jesse James was a mean, dirty killer. A mean, dirty killer. A mean, dirty killer…

Harriet-- Let's get a picture of him and charge people to see how he was in Walnut Grove!!

[debraran]

10 hours ago, jason88cubs said:

Harriet-- Let's get a picture of him and charge people to see how he was in Walnut Grove!!

That would be in the newspaper for sure!

I always wondered how in the show, they ended up in Walnut Grove. They both were educated and it seemd stifling to be there although needed among the farmers and all the widows living pretty well in their non log homes. ; )  The city is noisy etc but Harriet always seemed to like culture, they had plays, music, libraries, etc. Never addressed how they started there but it must have been a little different for her.

[Blergh]

13 hours ago, debraran said:

That would be in the newspaper for sure!

I always wondered how in the show, they ended up in Walnut Grove. They both were educated and it seemd stifling to be there although needed among the farmers and all the widows living pretty well in their non log homes. ; )  The city is noisy etc but Harriet always seemed to like culture, they had plays, music, libraries, etc. Never addressed how they started there but it must have been a little different for her.

It's interesting that they appeared to have been long established yet neither Reverand Alden nor Doc Baker ever claimed that Nellie or even Willie had been born there so I guess the Olesons must have moved there almost as soon as they were able to have him weaned.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

It's interesting that they appeared to have been long established yet neither Reverand Alden nor Doc Baker ever claimed that Nellie or even Willie had been born there so I guess the Olesons must have moved there almost as soon as they were able to have him weaned.

Did they claim that they hadn't been born there?  I mean, did this ever come up in conversation?

[Blergh]

18 hours ago, Katy M said:

Did they claim that they hadn't been born there?  I mean, did this ever come up in conversation?

True, Nels and Harriet never claimed they were born in Walnut Grove but it seemed they'd lived there from the time their offspring were toddlers (particularly Willie).

Oddly enough, Harriet had been stated to have been from St. Louis (though she spoke with no trace of a US Southern or Missouri accent) in early seasons- yet her unseen mother had somehow settled in Minneapolis by the lamentable closing TV movies.

As for Nels? They never stated where he came from. However, both he and his sister Annabelle clearly had Midwestern US American accents and it sounded as though the siblings had been raised in a rural US town. Considering that the bulk of the emigration from Sweden didn't happen until the 1840's (and Nels seemed to have been born c. 1830), it would have been unusual to have had someone born and bred of his background  in the US without a trace of a Scandinavian accent (and it wasn't clear he could speak any Swedish) running around rural Minnesota in the 1870's-1880's.

[Zella]

People from St. Louis don't have Southern accents. My coworkers from St. Louis sounded a lot like Chicagoans, though I didn't dare tell them that. 😂😂😂😂😂

Edited December 14, 2022 by Zella

[debraran]

4 hours ago, Blergh said:

True, Nels and Harriet never claimed they were born in Walnut Grove but it seemed they'd lived there from the time their offspring were toddlers (particularly Willie).

Oddly enough, Harriet had been stated to have been from St. Louis (though she spoke with no trace of a US Southern or Missouri accent) in early seasons- yet her unseen mother had somehow settled in Minneapolis by the lamentable closing TV movies.

As for Nels? They never stated where he came from. However, both he and his sister Annabelle clearly had Midwestern US American accents and it sounded as though the siblings had been raised in a rural US town. Considering that the bulk of the emigration from Sweden didn't happen until the 1840's (and Nels seemed to have been born c. 1830), it would have been unusual to have had someone born and bred of his background  in the US without a trace of a Scandinavian accent (and it wasn't clear he could speak any Swedish) running around rural Minnesota in the 1870's-1880's.

We got a glimpse of Harriet's background but I can't remember if she went to a finishing school or college type school. Nel's went to Princeton. both weren't stupid. Harriet seemed to come from well off family but didn't she tell Nellie she felt running or having a business made her more attractive to Nel's or she thought it did.

[jird]

I just turned on the TV and what should immediately appear but Purple Sweater Guy, nursing Adam back to health.

[Blergh]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

We got a glimpse of Harriet's background but I can't remember if she went to a finishing school or college type school. Nel's went to Princeton. both weren't stupid. Harriet seemed to come from well off family but didn't she tell Nellie she felt running or having a business made her more attractive to Nel's or she thought it did.

In 'Back to School, Part One' after Nellie sneers at her graduation gift of her own hotel and restaurant, Harriet recalled that she happened to have a 'small mercantile' of her own when she met Nels and that while he was (of course) smitten with her, she believed that her possession of that 'helped make the marriage happen'!

Of course, I'm not sure Princeton would have admitted someone with a Swedish surname c.1855 so maybe Nels believed he had to marry  (and EARN) his way to prosperity.

[BigBingerBro]

I always thought that the Olsens would have had a better relationship with Lars Hanson since he was the founder of hero township so they would have consulted with him prior to setting up the mercantile.

I recall Nels often saying when they were "back east" but he was never specific where.

[jason88cubs]

Where did Lars live? Did they ever say?

[Mr. Sparkle]

Over the mill? 

[Egg McMuffin]

Lars lived in that magic mansion that burned down in May We Make the Proud, and somehow was resurrected in Welcome To Olesonville.

[debraran]

I found it odd but I guess not really, since LHOP is fiction on TV, that Harriet had a small store. Women didn't really run stores, they shopped more. From what little I read, factory work or teachers. I loved seeing her doing it, maybe she could have in small pockets of the world but can you imagine it? Women couldn't vote, had trouble with credit/banking

I found this interesting about women being lured into department stores, escaping home for a while to shop. https://www.history.com/news/how-19th-century-women-used-department-stores-to-gain-their-freedom

I am utterly shocked being born after this date, women couldn't have a bank account until 1960s? Good Lord, you go Harriet, own that store and we know she had bank acct. I'll take that fiction over many of the other unbelievable things on the show.

https://www.oneadvisorypartners.com/blog/the-history-of-women-and-money-in-the-united-states-in-honor-of-womens-history-month

[Blergh]

8 hours ago, debraran said:

I found it odd but I guess not really, since LHOP is fiction on TV, that Harriet had a small store. Women didn't really run stores, they shopped more. From what little I read, factory work or teachers. I loved seeing her doing it, maybe she could have in small pockets of the world but can you imagine it? Women couldn't vote, had trouble with credit/banking

I found this interesting about women being lured into department stores, escaping home for a while to shop. https://www.history.com/news/how-19th-century-women-used-department-stores-to-gain-their-freedom

I am utterly shocked being born after this date, women couldn't have a bank account until 1960s? Good Lord, you go Harriet, own that store and we know she had bank acct. I'll take that fiction over many of the other unbelievable things on the show.

https://www.oneadvisorypartners.com/blog/the-history-of-women-and-money-in-the-united-states-in-honor-of-womens-history-month

It wasn't just a love of marketing that lured late 19th century women into department stores. Selfridge's in London had the extra advantage of indoor, running water  bathrooms- evidently one of if not THE first public restroom for women in London (the cosmopolitan capital and largest city of the wealthiest kingdom and empire on Earth at that time)! Yes, that's why all genteel ladies who could vaguely afford them had at least one dressing maid traveling with them at all times- so they could help them with more urgent tasks than sewing on sleeve buttons.  No, there was no mention of any facilities for public use in either Oleson's Mercantile. .or even Nellie's Hotel and Restaurant but I guess only Carrie had any need.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Blergh

[Egg McMuffin]

So it’s almost Christmas and no sign of an airing of that very Christmasy movie where Zaldamo loses Rose, a heatwave hits Minnesota, and the Wilders dump an orphan boy onto a crazy woman?

[Egg McMuffin]

OK - just found out that COZI is airing it on Christmas Day. Whew. It’s especially important in these times of climate change.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I usually have plenty of spare time on Christmas, so I think I'll watch it on Amazon. 

[Blergh]

After seeing the way Laura treated Zaldamo as either a log bump or verbal punching bag, I have to wonder if he ever wished he'd just finished that cinnamon chicken and the rest of his intended date with Nellie- especially since she wound up being a much more affectionate and pleasant spouse to her own husband!

[debraran]

6 hours ago, Blergh said:

After seeing the way Laura treated Zaldamo as either a log bump or verbal punching bag, I have to wonder if he ever wished he'd just finished that cinnamon chicken and the rest of his intended date with Nellie- especially since she wound up being a much more affectionate and pleasant spouse to her own husband!

I thought only Harriet was the "wear the pants" type in the 1800's. I hated their relationship, the angst over the perceived girlfriend, the angst over engagement, the angst over just about everything. She got on my nerves and I think Melissa was tired of her too from what I think I read in one of the books.

I just turned it on Cozi, but it was the later ones, when one of the Carter boys can't swim and I heard Nancy say "you hate me" to Nel's. That was enough! Netflix it is....

[Katy M]

6 hours ago, Blergh said:

After seeing the way Laura treated Zaldamo as either a log bump or verbal punching bag, I have to wonder if he ever wished he'd just finished that cinnamon chicken and the rest of his intended date with Nellie- especially since she wound up being a much more affectionate and pleasant spouse to her own husband!

But that was due to Percival taking in her in hand.  Almonzo didn't have the personality for that.

[CountryGirl]

On 12/18/2022 at 4:52 PM, Katy M said:

But that was due to Percival taking in her in hand.  Almonzo didn't have the personality for that.

Almanzo didn’t have a personality, period. 

[Blergh]

5 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Almanzo didn’t have a personality, period. 

True but why was that? Unlike Percival/Isaac and, especially, Adam, Almanzo had  been based on an actual person(Mrs. Wilder's Mr. Wilder- to boot). Was ML unable/too insecure to actually have had Manly be even slightly interesting on the show? I'm  almost surprised that he didn't cast  performers  who were more height-challenged and less photogenic than him to play the latter years LHOTP male spouses.

[CountryGirl]

2 minutes ago, Blergh said:

True but why was that? Unlike Percival/Isaac and, especially, Adam, Almanzo had  been based on an actual person(Mrs. Wilder's Mr. Wilder- to boot). Was ML unable/too insecure to actually have had Manly be even slightly interesting on the show? I'm  almost surprised that he didn't cast  performers  who were more height-challenged and less photogenic than him to play the latter years LHOTP male spouses.

I think any other male lead had to be the background to his foreground. 

[Zella]

Ahem I believe y'all mean any other male lead had to be in the background to Pa's manly hairy chest foreground. ;) 

Personally I think they did Almanzo dirty in the show. In the books, Almanzo is pretty effortlessly dashing, and his romance with Laura is adorable. And I say this as someone who can be pretty immune to the charms of romance in books. I was very disappointed that the show never seemed interesting in incorporating much of the real story--you'd think the blizzard shit would be tailormade for how much Landon loved melodrama, but I guess the fact Pa wasn't the hero automatically vetoed it for him. But the one-two punch of omitting that and replacing it with some of the show's stupidest and most obnoxious scenes, writing, and acting just pretty much ruined the character for me and dragged Laura down with him. 

As bland as Almanzo is, Laura turns into such a bitch over him that I never could like her character again. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Zella

[CountryGirl]

Almanzo and Cap Garland saving the town from starvation by risking their lives going for the wheat between storms could have been an epic two-parter. 

They wrote-in Almanzo taking Laura to and from the Brewster school but book Almanzo had already shown interest by escorting her home after the school recital where she and Ida did the history recitation from memory (which how in the world did they do that???). They ruined the onscreen relationship before it began by having a pig-tailed Laura chase after grown-ass-man Almanzo, who rebuffs her advances only to fall instantly in love with just one look at her Feminine Bun of Maturity. Book Almanzo was smitten for a while as already noted and drove Laura back and forth to her first school because of that and because she was so homesick. She fell in love with his horses first, then him, telling her skeptical mother “I couldn’t have one without the other.” As an aside, it almost seemed her parents didn’t want her to marry and the cynical part of me wonders if they didn’t want her to remain at home instead, a spinster teacher supporting her family. 

Totally agree that show Laura became insufferable from the Back to School two-parter on. 

[Egg McMuffin]

I always disliked how they made it out like the kids loved Laura as a teacher. She was short tempered and frequently irritated with the students, and they would have been inclined to dislike her anyway, as a former peer elevated to the head of the class.

[Blergh]

And was it due to her teaching position or being Pa's last local daughter that got Half-Pint on the Walnut Grove town council?  Even Harriet would have been hard pressed to have been considered a member of one at that time in spite of her wealth and prominence as the store keeper.

[CountryGirl]

3 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

I always disliked how they made it out like the kids loved Laura as a teacher. She was short tempered and frequently irritated with the students, and they would have been inclined to dislike her anyway, as a former peer elevated to the head of the class.

And Willie having her make him stand in the corner one last time and crying on her last day of teaching. Come on!

He should have been crying tears of joy. 

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

And was it due to her teaching position or being Pa's last local daughter that got Half-Pint on the Walnut Grove town council?  Even Harriet would have been hard pressed to have been considered a member of one at that time in spite of her wealth and prominence as the store keeper.

It was Pa and his manly chest and luscious locks. 

[debraran]

I always thought the long winter scenes in the book, not in their whole but definitely parts, would have been great in a 2 part episode. He didn't like grit though and that was gritty. He wanted pioneer life sanitized for the audiences then but The Long Winter had so much in it. One of my favorite books.

I remember when a town near me that did recreation of a town in 1800's (Sturbridge) had a stay over in one of the homes. You wore the clothes, worked a chore of your choosing, ate and cooked the way they did then etc. No phones and you just tried to recreate what it was like then without electricity etc. Some loved it and some were like, "Why did I think I wanted to be on LHOP" lol Because that was a set silly.

This is link to town in MA. Pretty cool. https://www.osv.org/

The 3 D part on website is new, I like it to see inside some buildings. The place nearby suspended the overnight part since Covid but maybe in future.

Edited December 22, 2022 by debraran

[jason88cubs]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I always thought the long winter scenes in the book, not in their whole but definitely parts, would have been great in a 2 part episode. He didn't like grit though and that was gritty. He wanted pioneer life sanitized for the audiences then but The Long Winter had so much in it. One of my favorite books.

I remember when a town near me that did recreation of a town in 1800's (Sturbridge) had a stay over in one of the homes. You wore the clothes, worked a chore of your choosing, ate and cooked the way they did then etc. No phones and you just tried to recreate what it was like then without electricity etc. Some loved it and some were like, "Why did I think I wanted to be on LHOP" lol Because that was a set silly.

This is link to town in MA. Pretty cool. https://www.osv.org/

The 3 D part on website is new, I like it to see inside some buildings. The place nearby suspended the overnight part since Covid but maybe in future.

I have caught myself saying "boy I would love to experience life back then" and I know I wouldn't last

 

I think alot of it is with technology today I just wanna get away sometimes

[Lisa418722]

2 hours ago, jason88cubs said:

I have caught myself saying "boy I would love to experience life back then" and I know I wouldn't last

I think alot of it is with technology today I just wanna get away sometimes

I recently was reading a post somewhere where people were saying they wanted to live that kind of life because things "were better then than they are now." 

Ummm, I've used outhouses in the past.  I prefer indoor plumbing with running water and a hot water heater. I like electricity.  I like being able to get into my car and drive to the grocery store and buy my meat already prepared.  I like my washer and dryer.  

Like you said, I think a lot of it is related to technology and I just have to remind myself I can put the phone and computer away (unless I'm working) and I can turn the TV off and read a book, which I have time to do because I don't have to do all my chores without electricity. 

[jird]

I read that LIW was crabby because her publishers wouldn't let her call the book The Hard Winter, even though that's what everyone who lived through it called it. They thought it was too harsh a title. So I imagine they probably made her tone down the content of the book, too.

Agreed that it would have been a great two-part episode and would have let us see Manly being useful.

[debraran]

10 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

I recently was reading a post somewhere where people were saying they wanted to live that kind of life because things "were better then than they are now." 

Ummm, I've used outhouses in the past.  I prefer indoor plumbing with running water and a hot water heater. I like electricity.  I like being able to get into my car and drive to the grocery store and buy my meat already prepared.  I like my washer and dryer.  

Like you said, I think a lot of it is related to technology and I just have to remind myself I can put the phone and computer away (unless I'm working) and I can turn the TV off and read a book, which I have time to do because I don't have to do all my chores without electricity. 

Yes, that is why seeing them always so clean and shining and well pressed and never dirty wasn't real. Most want the set of LHOP in Simi Valley. Let them feel the cold through the logs, have to get up in below zero weather without parkas and very warm clothing to go get wood, feed livestock, etc. Wash clothes that are dried frozen and can't be worn yet, take all day to make one meal with a fire place and stretch out potatoes and food. Have Charles come in dirty and sweaty and stink up the cabin but its not wash day yet. Have your period with an outhouse, rags and freezing temps as your friend. I'll take penicillin thank you and vaccines for things that killed in the simple life. No thanks, I'll take a cabin in the woods with composting toilet for one night and running water but I'll stop there. I'd like to do the reenactment for fun but not for life.