Little House On The Prairie - General Discussion

[CountryGirl]

On 10/20/2021 at 12:11 PM, ctlady said:

Oh, I remember that - back when ABC had the Monday Night Movie Of The Week!  I remember the older woman got it the worst.

Everytime the actress said her lines it was annoying.  Especially in the early years.  She always shouted them.  I remember the end of The Richest Man In Walnut Grove when the entire family went to the mercantile to pay the bill, then afterwards went down a list of things they needed, Carrie shouts "and I want some white sugar!"  Guess they had to make sure she had a line or two every episode

So THAT'S what she said.

I could never understand anything she said, except for the awful "Alyssa! Alyssa!"

[debraran]

14 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

So THAT'S what she said.

I could never understand anything she said, except for the awful "Alyssa! Alyssa!"

Just remember she didn't write the scripts! Someone, an adult writer, made her do that. I always thought the rumor it was a way to keep her from other scripts by making it bad, just might have been true. Remember, she tried out, she read or acted with others, they picked her. Lots of cute actress twins, he liked her from commercials they did so she must have had more talent.

[Blergh]

Let's not forget that the Greenbush twins had done a fairly good job playing the toddler daughter of the protagonist in Sunshine (1973). This was  a rather sad TV movie about a young mother (played by Cristina Raines) who did her best to try to make the most of what little time she had left with her daughter and husband while dying of cancer while recording her observations for her daughter to hopefully listen to as an adult all of which was based on a true account. 

[jason88cubs]

It's been awhile since I watched LHOP

 

I saw it on tv the other day though. "Family Quarrell " had to stick around for michael's laughing

[Egg McMuffin]

Isn’t there an episode that ends with the entire family in the house just laughing for a good 30-45 seconds? It’s as if the script was short and they were just vamping to fill out the rest of the episode. It’s a very odd moment, right up there with the episode that has Michael Landon’s executive producer credit in an enormous font size (perhaps he was feeling insecure that week). 

[Pirpana]

14 hours ago, Kyle said:

Isn’t there an episode that ends with the entire family in the house just laughing for a good 30-45 seconds? It’s as if the script was short and they were just vamping to fill out the rest of the episode. It’s a very odd moment, right up there with the episode that has Michael Landon’s executive producer credit in an enormous font size (perhaps he was feeling insecure that week). 

Hah, funny. Which episode was that?

[CountryGirl]

44 minutes ago, Pirpana said:

Hah, funny. Which episode was that?

The High Cost of Being Right (S4:E9). No need to go to marriage counseling (I know, it didn’t exist back then). Just guffaw your way through the problems. Easy peasy. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

In true Landon tradition the judge in that one was in 7 different episodes as 7 different characters (usually a "geezer"). 

He also did one Bonanza, one Father Murphy and 2 Highway to Heavens. 

[jird]

14 minutes ago, Superclam said:

In true Landon tradition the judge in that one was in 7 different episodes as 7 different characters (usually a "geezer"). 

He also did one Bonanza, one Father Murphy and 2 Highway to Heavens. 

My favorite was the one where Charles gave him a ride and took a stupid shortcut racing Almanzo, and Geezer Guy later snitched on him and repeatedly called him "Mr. Smart Brains"

[Pirpana]

Oh yeah, he was basically same character, only with different name. Very funny, though!

[ctlady]

My favorite LHOTP binge - 'Sweet Sixteen' all the way up through 'Laura Ingalls-Wilder Pt 2'

When I'm fortunate enough to catch these in succession, all I have to do is tell Mr. Ctlady, "it's a Beth & Manly marathon"!

[CountryGirl]

It really was silly. 

Even Carrie got to escape the high chair.

[BigBingerBro]

8 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

It really was silly. 

Even Carrie got to escape the high chair.

Carrie was even abe to climb the ladder to the loft in the early first season!

[Mr. Sparkle]

Here's a story about everyone's favorite tv parents:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/karen-grassle-grateful-she-mended-131402160.html

[Blergh]

On 11/4/2021 at 8:22 AM, CountryGirl said:

It really was silly. 

Even Carrie got to escape the high chair.

Yeah, but Baby Grace got to have a puppy love flirtation at Nellie Oleson's wedding while Carrie didn't seem to ever speak to a non-related boy the entire time she was on the show even when on the verge of teenhood. 

[debraran]

9 hours ago, Superclam said:

Here's a story about everyone's favorite tv parents:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/karen-grassle-grateful-she-mended-131402160.html

Yes he was known to be crude and tell off color jokes etc. Some of it was common but I'm sure on some other sets less so.

Melissa Sue never stopped talking to him but Melissa G made up before he died too. I don't think I would have liked the real Michael Landon as much as Charles and Jonathan. I don't like being around heavy drinkers smokers or people who do practical jokes all the time, just not me. I can enjoy the show without concentrating on those things. I'm glad many spoke up later, because no one should be considered perfect, if he made a good show (until he killed it) but wouldn't pay people well or you had to walk on eggs to suggest something, it's okay to say that. The solid things stand on their own.

Edited November 5, 2021 by debraran

[Blergh]

Debraran,

 

I have to agree that while I admire the hard work, skill and dedication that ML put into LHOTP and other productions, I can't say he sounds like someone I'd like to have had more than a passing acquaintance with had we had reason to have met. 

Oh, and   IMO it was vile and inappropriate for him to have called Miss Grassle that term especially at the workplace! 

One can be sure Pa (in Real Life and on the show)  would have flattened any male who dared use anything close to salty terms around his wife or daughters!

[debraran]

I felt bad when people like Kevin Hagan said they couldn't get a raise after years on the show and Bonnie (Grace) said "He was] very pleasant. “Very nice. He was always wonderful to me. He didn’t pay very well, but he was wonderful.” He didn't seem to want others to share the wealth but something would have been nice. It was such a popular show he probably knew they wouldn't leave. It was a mixed bag over the years. The twins (Carrie) were scared of him at times, but loved "Mr Edwards".  His anger was noted by many. He had a lot on his shoulders but that was also an ego thing of not wanting anyone else to help.

I think that's why I loved Katherine, because she didn't care, lol. She encouraged others to suggest things (with trepidation) and was not a wall flower. : )

[ctlady]

Every time I watch Laura Ingalls Wilder Pt1 , I want to immediately search the ‘net for a replica of that chunky, lock diary Eliza Jane writes in 

[Brn2bwild]

One random thing I noticed watching the episodes: characters will order eggs and coffee for *dinner*, even at a fine dining restaurant (see the one Charles took Mary and Almanzo to after he "won" the bet with Almanzo). Was that really a thing during that time period in that part of the country?

[Egg McMuffin]

On 11/6/2021 at 7:26 AM, debraran said:

I felt bad when people like Kevin Hagan said they couldn't get a raise after years on the show and Bonnie (Grace) said "He was] very pleasant. “Very nice. He was always wonderful to me. He didn’t pay very well, but he was wonderful.” He didn't seem to want others to share the wealth but something would have been nice. It was such a popular show he probably knew they wouldn't leave. It was a mixed bag over the years. The twins (Carrie) were scared of him at times, but loved "Mr Edwards".  His anger was noted by many. He had a lot on his shoulders but that was also an ego thing of not wanting anyone else to help.

I think that's why I loved Katherine, because she didn't care, lol. She encouraged others to suggest things (with trepidation) and was not a wall flower. : )

The cast should have banded together and gone on strike for better pay. But I suspect Landon would have just recast them all with “lookalikes” a la Nancy and Ma and Pa Carter.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Kyle

[Blergh]

On 11/6/2021 at 6:26 AM, debraran said:

I felt bad when people like Kevin Hagan said they couldn't get a raise after years on the show and Bonnie (Grace) said "He was] very pleasant. “Very nice. He was always wonderful to me. He didn’t pay very well, but he was wonderful.” He didn't seem to want others to share the wealth but something would have been nice. It was such a popular show he probably knew they wouldn't leave. It was a mixed bag over the years. The twins (Carrie) were scared of him at times, but loved "Mr Edwards".  His anger was noted by many. He had a lot on his shoulders but that was also an ego thing of not wanting anyone else to help.

I think that's why I loved Katherine, because she didn't care, lol. She encouraged others to suggest things (with trepidation) and was not a wall flower. : )

I think Miss MacGregor had been a 'starving actress' for virtually her entire career to the point that she believed that she could survive just fine on any pittance and believed she'd be okay if she was let go. Of course, she was divorced and childless so she had no family to support so that may have helped. But it seems she DID earn enough on LHOTP to essentially live comfortably the rest of her life without performing in any movies or TV shows after the show ended but maybe she had somehow learned to save and  invest very well from early on.  Yeah, it must have irked ML to have someone  who didn't fawn all over him and even openly debated him on the set- yet whose contributions were vital for the show's chemistry to succeed.

[debraran]

3 hours ago, Blergh said:

I think Miss MacGregor had been a 'starving actress' for virtually her entire career to the point that she believed that she could survive just fine on any pittance and believed she'd be okay if she was let go. Of course, she was divorced and childless so she had no family to support so that may have helped. But it seems she DID earn enough on LHOTP to essentially live comfortably the rest of her life without performing in any movies or TV shows after the show ended but maybe she had somehow learned to save and  invest very well from early on.  Yeah, it must have irked ML to have someone  who didn't fawn all over him and even openly debated him on the set- yet whose contributions were vital for the show's chemistry to succeed.

Yes, Katherine didn't like him right off, saying he was "strutting around like a peacock" lol.  Melissa G mentioned his dirty jokes in an older interview last year.

Looking back, Gilbert could tell some of her Little House on the Prairie costars were upset by Landon’s dirty jokes. 

“I don’t think the grownups liked that that much, by the way,” Gilbert said. The grown up women did not appreciate it. The two main female actors of the adults were Karen Grassle, obviously playing Ma, and Katherine MacGregor who played Mrs. Olson. These are two very trained theater actresses who have a process and a preparation and they do things their way. So they’re not accustomed to this ribald [atmosphere].

Not even so much for their content, but how he interrupted their preparations.

“It’s very interruptive of an actor’s process to go from joking [to dramatic] unless you’re used to that,” Gilbert continued. “At the time the jokes were inappropriate and I think some of the ladies got a little offended at times. I would now if I heard some of this stuff. I might be bothered by it.”

It was a different time when Melissa Gilbert was on the show

Gilbert acknowledged that today, actors would refrain from uncomfortable humor, not the least of which because of #MeToo. In the permissive ‘70s it was condoned.

“You can’t do this anymore,” Gilbert said. “You just can’t. It’s just not doable and it’s great. It’s fine. Listen, there’s a lot of stuff going on on that set that you can’t do now.”

When I was young it was a lot of poop jokes, lots of fart jokes, lots of booger jokes.

She did mention Karen and Katherine were really offended by the dirty and very dirty at times jokes. Even the KKK joke he did with Moses Gunn, dressing in the sheet, you had to laugh even if it wasn't funny, but it was "him". Alison mentioned he just did what he wanted, he was the boss. It doesn't mean he couldn't be kind, but when he wasn't, there wasn't another to go too. That must have been a good and bad thing at times.

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by debraran

[Blergh]

15 hours ago, Paul Q. said:

Having an abusive mother probably messed up ML really bad though. My own mother’s problems would likely never have happened had she not lost her own mother when Mum was 16, compounded by Mum losing her only daughter to infant cancer when Mum was just 25.

Yes, I agree that Mrs. Orowitz's unhinged abuse of him as a child and persecution of him as an adult likely were contributing factors to ML's shadowside. 

Of course, it should be noted that he DID financially support her despite that. However, even that wasn't enough to keep her from making harassing phone calls to him AND spreading lies to the rags about him 'abandoning and neglecting' her after he had become prosperous. 

[CountryGirl]

I'm kind of watching "The Castoffs" and my goodness, I forgot what a bitch Laura was to poor Jack. I'm also side-eyeing Pa thinking he could insta-replace Jack with Bandit. 

[jird]

30 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I'm kind of watching "The Castoffs" and my goodness, I forgot what a bitch Laura was to poor Jack. I'm also side-eyeing Pa thinking he could insta-replace Jack with Bandit. 

It kinda sucked to be Bandit. Pa was dumb thinking he'd just replace Jack, and Laura was mean to him just because he wasn't Jack. Poor guy.

[Mr. Sparkle]

If I'm not mistaken, that was the first episode with Garvey, and they did no introduction at all. Just like "hey Garvey, you've been living here the whole time, right?" 

I rewound the Gold Rush episode a few times and never quite found where the moment where the Edwards said they were leaving. 

I also hate Keizia, but that's another story. 

[Pirpana]

^About the Garveys, same for me, too. In this episode I just thought "Oh, well, one of those best friends we have never heard of and never will again". But in the following episode pa mentions just in passing in Chicago that the Edwards had moved to California. Then I thought, "well, that was a curved ball out of nowhere", and wondered why.

In the following episodes I discovered the Garveys really were best friends we've never heard of but we will in the future. I thought, this is a nice change to pattern while waiting Edwardses to come back.

I didn't know about the behind-the-scenes drama back then, because I kept myself in total radio silence until I had watched (and translated) the whole show because I didn't want to get any spoilers. This was back in 2014-2016 when restored Blu-rays were released.

 

I was as much surprised to see Kezia back for a few more episodes but I agree, I didn't like her either. Or should I say, didn't like her two full-blown episodes (she had one or two guest appearances as comical relief, as well). Like you have already covered, a grown man should have known you can't replace a dead pet with another just like that, not while the old one is practically still warm six feet under.

And in the other one, Lake Kezia Monster, they were just too old to believe in sea monsters. Like the bully was too old to believe in werewolves in werewolf episode. And overall it was a very strange decision to bring her back for one episode after so long time. Back in the 70's the viewers had probably already forgot the whole character.

As a side note, where was Kezia when the whole town practically withered and died at the beginning of season 5?

[Zella]

3 hours ago, jird said:

Laura was mean to him just because he wasn't Jack. Poor guy.

Laura was also really awful to Jack right before he died. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

39 minutes ago, Pirpana said:

But in the following episode pa mentions just in passing in Chicago that the Edwards had moved to California.

Did he??? I have to look that up. I've always wondered how they just seemed to disappear. 

ETA: the grange episode where John Edwards turns out to be a two-timer. That makes sense. Luckily Bobby Brady was there to pick up the pieces! 

[debraran]

10 hours ago, Paul Q. said:

A lot of LHOTP reeks of 1970s post Womens Lib. See also Hotlips on MASH.

OT: I know I’m easily amused but it’s kinda of funny that the feminist Organization that started Take Our Daughters to Work Day *wanted* create a Take Our Sons Home Day equivalent day for boys but that second one never got off the ground.

The MASH set was so nice though, they all stayed pretty much friends and I love when Alan Alda has them on his show like a mini reunion. I liked how much they respected each other and helped each other with lines and ideas. Quite a different set. Jokes weren't made to throw off another persons lines but to break up tension between takes. The scripts grew too in time as Alan Alda got more clout:"As the show and times went on, Alda — a liberal and self-professed “feminist” — gained more influence, and both “M*A*S*H” and his character moved away from such sexist gags on the show. "

I find what went on behind the scenes of shows more disturbing than what they had on it. Hopefully women can be on shows now and movies without thinking they have to put up with gross jokes and men touching them and treating them like objects.

[jason88cubs]

they never did have a Thanksgiving themed episode did they?

[CountryGirl]

3 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

they never did have a Thanksgiving themed episode did they?

In Part II of Journey In The Spring (S3.E7), there was a bit of Thanksgiving, where Carrie thought the turkey Charles got for the dinner was going to be her pet and she was calling him Tom. 

[jason88cubs]

For some reason I randomly thought of "the ANgrey Heart " episode today and the scene where Charles was holding the kid saying "i dont wanna hurt you son" and all that. I don't know why but it made me chuckle a bit

[methodwriter85]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:58 AM, Blergh said:

Well, keep in mind that ML's hair screams '1970's anachronism on an 1870's show'!  Ever see the episode in which Pa for some reason had to swim in Plum Creek near the sawmill? He emerged looking like a drowned rat!  This likely is the reason why Pa didn't wear his hair slicked back as would have been the style for those men who hung onto long hair after it became unfashionable after the Civil War. 

Apparently Alison Arngrim joked about this on her stand-up- "PA was a dirt poor farmer...with a $137 dollar Beverly Hills haircut." LOL.

I still will never forget Melissa Sue Anderson writing that she "cleverly" hid her Farrah hair bangs with a barrette. LOL.

[debraran]

Should get Karen's book today. Be nice to read something different. She's had daily "reviews" by friends and costars on her website and had book launching yesterday. She had quite an interesting life with her share of issues. She's been posting pics every day on her website, some of her young, teens, etc and some from LHOP. In one she's tickling Melissa Sue while "Scotty" watches. I hope there are more candids we never have seen online. I love those, the posed pics are okay but the candid I enjoy more.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by debraran

[Blergh]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

Should get Karen's book today. Be nice to read something different. She's had daily "reviews" by friends and costars on her website and had book launching yesterday. She had quite an interesting life with her share of issues. She's been posting pics every day on her website, some of her young, teens, etc and some from LHOP. In one she's tickling Melissa Sue while "Scotty" watches. I hope there are more candids we never have seen online. I love those, the posed pics are okay but the candid I enjoy more.

 

 

It's kind of hard to imagine 'Ma' to have tickled Mary except perhaps in toddlerhood- but what did Mrs. Oleson have to say about that? LOL!

If nothing else, I CAN imagine Miss Grassle likely will reveal herself to be somewhat deeper (with perhaps having had more tough times) than the 1970's viewers would have ever imagined! 

[debraran]

9 minutes ago, Blergh said:

It's kind of hard to imagine 'Ma' to have tickled Mary except perhaps in toddlerhood- but what did Mrs. Oleson have to say about that? LOL!

If nothing else, I CAN imagine Miss Grassle likely will reveal herself to be somewhat deeper (with perhaps having had more tough times) than the 1970's viewers would have ever imagined! 

Oh yes.  Alcoholism and promiscuity at times, an affair with Gil Gerard and that was my free chapter ;). She wanted to be honest. Some are criticizing her remarks on Landon but nothing I haven’t heard before.  If you were a casual fan, then yes a shocker 

Edited November 16, 2021 by debraran

[Egg McMuffin]

On 11/12/2021 at 4:59 PM, Superclam said:

If I'm not mistaken, that was the first episode with Garvey, and they did no introduction at all. Just like "hey Garvey, you've been living here the whole time, right?" 

I rewound the Gold Rush episode a few times and never quite found where the moment where the Edwards said they were leaving. 

I also hate Keizia, but that's another story. 

LHOTP is big on Suspiciously Similar Substitutes. I wonder if ML made Merlin Olson grow that beard so that Jon Garvey could be more like Edwards. But the characterizations weren’t the same - Garvey was like Edwards on Valium. And the reverse was true of the wives; we lost the sweet, mellow Grace for that bitch-on-wheels Alice.

I also hate Kezia, and hated her when she was Maude’s maid too.

[CountryGirl]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

Oh yes.  Alcoholism and promiscuity at times, an affair with Gil Gerard and that was my free chapter ;). She wanted to be honest. Some are criticizing her remarks on Landon but nothing I haven’t heard before.  If you were a casual fan, then yes a shocker 

So Ma was Buck-Rogered after all!

Get it, Karen!

[debraran]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

So Ma was Buck-Rogered after all!

Get it, Karen!

I KNEW the chemistry wasn't all acting. I always liked him more than Pa. Just wasn't a Landon fan that way.

My book was delayed until 25th they say even though I preordered it. Karen said it was very popular, I don't think they expected the number of books but have no idea what they put aside for first printing.

[CheshireCat]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:57 AM, Blergh said:

Of course, what's odd is that a few years earlier when Mary got her glasses(that she fake lost)  in 'Four Eyes', no one mentioned that she'd had any problems besides becoming more than slightly nearsighted - much less that she'd ever had had Scarlet Fever as a child.

I think it's something the doctor would have needed to ask for, especially back in the day when I don't think non-medical people had access to any information on medical research.

But did the doctor have reason to suspect during that very first visit? If memory serves, they visit the doctor twice before Mary goes blind and it's only the second time that he recognizes that she's going to go blind?

[Blergh]

20 hours ago, Kyle said:

LHOTP is big on Suspiciously Similar Substitutes. I wonder if ML made Merlin Olson grow that beard so that Jon Garvey could be more like Edwards. But the characterizations weren’t the same - Garvey was like Edwards on Valium. And the reverse was true of the wives; we lost the sweet, mellow Grace for that bitch-on-wheels Alice.

I also hate Kezia, and hated her when she was Maude’s maid too.

I didn't hate Kezia (or the performer Hermione Baddeley) but I did think it was bogus fantasy that this aging woman would have attempted to settle in a 'house' without even any kind of roof- in the 1870's Minnesota?! The first drizzle or frost would have ended that 'fantasy' real fast!  This may have worked in winter- and nearly  rain-free California but NOT Minnesota. 

BTW, Miss Baddeley was the younger sister of Angela Baddeley who hit the heights of international fame playing  the Upstairs,Downstairs cook Mrs. (Kate)Bridges  - someone from the same working class British background as Kezia and Mrs. Naughatuck but with far more rigid viewpoints on what was 'proper'. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Blergh

[jird]

I didn't mind Kezia in her first episode, but didn't like her in any of the other episodes she showed up in. Like, apparently we're supposed to find it all quirky and charming when she reads everyone's mail (but how dare Mrs. Oleson listen in on phone calls). 

[BigBingerBro]

5 hours ago, Blergh said:

I did think it was bogus fantasy that this aging woman would have attempted to settle in a 'house' without even any kind of roof- in the 1870's Minnesota?! The first drizzle or frost would have ended that 'fantasy' real fast!  This may have worked in winter- and nearly  rain-free California but NOT Minnesota. 

Well it seemed she actually slept in the still-intact fruit cellar and only sat in the roofless house during the day.  I guess in the winter she would have stayed in the fruit cellar or found other more warmer accomodations.

I could never follow her movements.  At first she was squatting at the house frame, then she was the Oleson's maid at their lake house, then at times she was working at the post office.  

[libgirl2]

6 hours ago, Blergh said:

I didn't hate Kezia (or the performer Hermione Baddeley) but I did think it was bogus fantasy that this aging woman would have attempted to settle in a 'house' without even any kind of roof- in the 1870's Minnesota?! The first drizzle or frost would have ended that 'fantasy' real fast!  This may have worked in winter- and nearly  rain-free California but NOT Minnesota. 

BTW, Miss Baddeley was the younger sister of Angela Baddeley who hit the heights of international fame playing  the Upstairs,Downstairs cook Mrs. (Kate)Bridges  - someone from the same working class British background as Kezia and Mrs. Naughatuck but with far more rigid viewpoints on what was 'proper'. 

I never knew that!!! thanks! 

[debraran]

Read Karen's book, came after I got my booster shot and took a day in case I didn't feel well. Just tired, so a nice reading in bed day.

For fans, most of the first 200 pages is how Karen got to TV and her life from childhood to teens and college, addictions and tribulations being a woman at that time in Hollywood. It touches on LHOP of course, but not in depth the way the kids did their books. She seemed close to "missy" Melissa Sue, liked the children, but she saw things as an adult would. She told stories of Mike, good and bad, but we know how he can be egotistical and full of himself so not a shock. I wish she had more about personal interactions with some of them but it was about her, not them. She was friendly with Scotty and "Ms Beadle and respected them all. She also mirrored how I felt about the show at the end, last few years, and gave a little background to why she wasn't in some show or got little air time. It explained the truth of why Harriet wasn't there too at the end, or her version of it.

I wish there had been more pictures, 6 or 7 from LHOP but when you think of the time from the show to now and before, that was about fitting for her life.

I'm glad I bought it, interesting and fit the mood I was in at the time, I admit I skimmed a bit of her early life. I was tired and thought I could go back if I wanted too later.

Edited November 22, 2021 by debraran

[Egg McMuffin]

Why wasn’t Harriet there at the end? Those last three movies without her are so dreary.

[Pirpana]

^ I've read she was on a pilgrim journey in India being a Hindu religion exerciser. But maybe Karen gave a somewhat different explanation. I'm also interested, debraran.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Pirpana

[Blergh]

Yeah, I'm wondering if, originally, the producers gave Miss MacGregor an earlier end-date than it wound up being and she made her pilgrimage plans based on the initial date!