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Little House On The Prairie - General Discussion


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(edited)
2 hours ago, patriciahelenkit said:

I don't blame the Greenbushes for hating Landon for the Carrie Goes Poo Poo At Age Nine episode. The twins keep bringing it up today at appearances at festivals and parades, so i think they are still really angry!

Or writing that terrible script for them to share. LHOP had some really bad episodes but the writing was so off there. Forget "Alyssa" but the way they treated and spoke to Carrie, the fact it was 90 min. (but I realize they know they wont be rerun the same way as a 60 min show) She was treated like she was mentally challenged but they could have gotten some lines in shows, given a chance to answer a question in the classroom, wish her parents a good day, having a friend over. She had no toys (that Chris didn't make her) no friends, and then she has 2 more adopted siblings that forever squelch her chance to grow up.

Edited by debraran
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On 7/24/2022 at 9:24 PM, Blergh said:

But even though it's witnessed by virtually all the sighted folks, apart from Hester Sue's immediate reaction upon seeing Alice in the window with the baby as she's trying to break out ("Oh my GOD. The baby!"), no one ever alludes to Alice's insane final act. Ever. 

It truly becomes the ultimate Little House Cabin Elephant!

Alice is tightly wound and awfully snippy during her entire LHOTP tenure. For example, do you remember how awful she was to her own son during the cheating episode? So her final act should come as no surprise to those who were paying attention the previous three years.

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(edited)
8 hours ago, jason88cubs said:

Did you prefer Mr Edwards or Garvey?

Edwards simply because Victor French could act and had charisma. Merlin Olsen played all of his scenes in this dull, low-key way, so Jon Garvey wasn’t a compelling character. Plus he was married to that awful woman, so that didn’t help either.

Edited by Egg McMuffin
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1 hour ago, Egg McMuffin said:

So her final act should come as no surprise to those who were paying attention the previous three years.

I'm going to politely disagree and say that using a baby as a battering ram on a window should always come as a surprise. 

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(edited)
4 hours ago, debraran said:

Or writing that terrible script for them to share. LHOP had some really bad episodes but the writing was so off there. Forget "Alyssa" but the way they treated and spoke to Carrie, the fact it was 90 min. (but I realize they know they wont be rerun the same way as a 60 min show) She was treated like she was mentally challenged but they could have gotten some lines in shows, given a chance to answer a question in the classroom, wish her parents a good day, having a friend over. She had no toys (that Chris didn't make her) no friends, and then she has 2 more adopted siblings that forever squelch her chance to grow up.

In The Christmas They Never Forgot, Cassandra got a real doll with a china head, and I remembered Laura got a similar doll as a child (the racoon episode). I remember thinking "Huh. Did Carrie ever got a real store brought doll like her sisters?" Perhaps she did but Carrie got the shaft when it comes to storylines (or even background scenes) that we don't know what toys she had except the one from Chris. 

eta: OMG. I said shaft regarding Carrie. Pun wasn't intended. LOL

Edited by Snow Apple
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1 minute ago, Snow Apple said:

In The Christmas They Never Forgot, Cassandra got a real doll with a china head, and I remembered Laura got a similar doll as a child (the racoon episode). I remember thinking "Huh. Did Carrie ever got a real store brought doll like her sisters?" Perhaps she did but Carrie got the shaft when it comes to storylines (or even background scenes) that we don't know what toys she had except the one from Chris. 

She got a STAHHHH! Oh wait, she gave that to Baby Cheezits!

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Random question for the American's here. In a lot of old(er) TV shows we see the family drinking milk with dinner. How common was (is?) that really? Or is it more just a TV show thing? 

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31 minutes ago, LadyIrony said:

Random question for the American's here. In a lot of old(er) TV shows we see the family drinking milk with dinner. How common was (is?) that really? Or is it more just a TV show thing? 

When I was a kid we always drank milk with supper.  Mine had to be chocolate, though, because I hate milk.

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(edited)

I think it's pretty common for kids to drink milk with dinner. It definitely was where I live when I was a kid in the 90s. I think on average adults drink it less frequently and probably not routinely for dinner. I probably drink more milk than people I know but it's always for breakfast or with dessert, not dinner. 

I think people in past generations were more likely to drink buttermilk. My grandparents talk about doing that and relatives doing that a lot when they were younger, so 30s and 40s. My other grandpa religiously drank buttermilk every day for his daily hangover even when he was an elderly man. . . . 

Edited by Zella
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16 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Edwards simply because Victor French could act and had charisma. Merlin Olsen played all of his scenes in this dull, low-key way, so Jon Garvey wasn’t a compelling character. Plus he was married to that awful woman, so that didn’t help either.

The irony is that Miss Parady has always seemed a live wire and FUN whenever she's been interviewed or in a pod cast! I hope she decides to write an autobio including her LHOTP experiences.

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8 hours ago, Katy M said:

When I was a kid we always drank milk with supper.  Mine had to be chocolate, though, because I hate milk.

We drank milk with dinner when we were very young, but by the time I was eight or so, we had water with dinner. I’ve never liked milk that much - can’t remember the last time I had a glass of it.

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Everytime I watch the rolling-out-the-millstone scene in Back To School Pt 1, I get irked that these men used a WOODEN stick to roll out a 900lb millstone.  It doesn't matter how many times I watched that scene, I always shout, "get an iron bar!"

And I get why Caroline didn't want to work on Sunday to make one meal for a full day's pay, but couldn't she have prepped it the day before so all Nellie had to do was warm it up?  I don't know what kind of cooked food storage they could've housed it in back then as I'm not sure how many meals resulted in leftovers.  But - dang, Caroline - to turn down a whopping $2 to cook one meal when you know you need the money?

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13 minutes ago, patriciahelenkit said:

I don't have much time for Gilbert. Specially as she got older. Christy Kennedy, who was a finalist for the role of Laura, might have been less of a pain.

I liked her in the early seasons, but I think she is one of the absolute worst things about the later seasons. Some of it is the writing for Laura is really offputting, but I felt like her acting also got much worse as she aged. 

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(edited)

Which episode featured Mr. Edward's sitting sadly all alone and quietly singing Ol' Dan Tucker to himself?

Also, I never noticed before that during this very dramatic scene, Grandpa's mustache is coming off. 😂

20220728_194257.jpg.cac88ffd8b6bd503361e13b8f4649d22.jpg

Edited by jird
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9 hours ago, ctlady said:

Everytime I watch the rolling-out-the-millstone scene in Back To School Pt 1, I get irked that these men used a WOODEN stick to roll out a 900lb millstone.  It doesn't matter how many times I watched that scene, I always shout, "get an iron bar!"

And I get why Caroline didn't want to work on Sunday to make one meal for a full day's pay, but couldn't she have prepped it the day before so all Nellie had to do was warm it up?  I don't know what kind of cooked food storage they could've housed it in back then as I'm not sure how many meals resulted in leftovers.  But - dang, Caroline - to turn down a whopping $2 to cook one meal when you know you need the money?

While pioneers could store smoked meats in those days before electric refrigerators (and I'm not sure Nellie's Restaurant had an ice box which would required fresh blocks of ice brought in  to keep food from going bad within), I'm not sure Caroline could have baked cinnamon chicken a day in advance for it to have been safe to eat via reheating. However, as it worked out, it's likely Nellie and Almanzo's getting their mouths (and likely their entire digestive systems) scorched via Laura's added Cayenne pepper wound up being about as traumatic for them as possible food poisoning via the cooked birds sitting at room temp overnight.

How was it that Nellie's Restaurant managed to attract huge crowds six days a week with Caroline's cooking but somehow was able to be completely empty on Sunday? Did all the hotel guests vacate the premises or did they just fast on Sundays rather than chance having to consume anything by the pre-Percival trained Nellie?

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Most of what you see in Back to School is patently ridiculous, including Charles thinking that he can hide from a 900 lb millstone behind a flimsy wooden door. But never mind that, just revel in all the melodrama and silliness that is LHOTP at the height of its glory.

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12 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Most of what you see in Back to School is patently ridiculous, including Charles thinking that he can hide from a 900 lb millstone behind a flimsy wooden door. But never mind that, just revel in all the melodrama and silliness that is LHOTP at the height of its glory.

Yes, like the Nellie/Laura mudfight, cinnamon chicken, "I'm a woman, a woman!" and "I hate all of you!" and, of course, Pa's manly chest, bound in bandages ending just below the nipples.

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15 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Yes, like the  "I'm a woman, a woman!" and "I hate all of you!"

I always felt sorry for Jonathan Garvey after that line who I'm surprised didn't say out loud," What the Hell did I do, Missy? I just gave your Pa a wagon ride!"

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(edited)

Michael didn't care about staying with the books/children but Albert seemed like the "I will have my son" either way. lol. They made him sleep in same room with Laura and Carrie but when they moved James and Cassandra in, it was just ridiculous. I can see him not wanting to alter the "little house" but don't bring in so many kids or add to the barn. ; )  Even though not the big city, everyone was mean and not deserving of a child in Walnut Grove, even Harriet's aunt was really to old to adopt. If he made them be adopted near by they could come by to play a lot and Charles could solve the couples problems every few episodes. He had to be the Savoir of the world.

I don't know how Melissa G felt about him joining but I do understand new blood adding to the show, but it didn't have to be all his children.

Nothing was worse than Nancy being a sociopath and she was, no empathy except for herself, hurt people and animals, lied about her past being bad, not a family, feel good addition to the show and she wasn't a one time actor but all the time. I felt bad for Katherine and Richard having to end up with that debacle after so many good shows with Nellie and Willie.

Edited by debraran
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Re Allison Balson, AKA Nancy Oleson, I'm surprised there are no interviews with her. I often wonder what it might have been like to gain a role which basically was picking up after Allison Argrim did such a beautiful job.   It looks like her career in TV dried up in the mid-80s and then she turned to singing.

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38 minutes ago, Zella said:

Nancy was a complete shit. Literally one of the most pointless characters I've ever watched. 

She was LHOTPs version of The Brady Bunches' Oliver

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1 minute ago, ctlady said:

She was LHOTPs version of The Brady Bunches' Oliver

I never had the displeasure of meeting Oliver, but based on the complaining I've read about him over the years, I believe you!

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3 minutes ago, Zella said:

I never had the displeasure of meeting Oliver, but based on the complaining I've read about him over the years, I believe you!

It was a means to keep the 'kid factor' in the show as all the Brady kids were grown.  And with Laura married and Nellie/Mary married and off the show, all that was left was Albert, Willie (who seemed to forever be in school!) and Carrie (who was too annoying to take over any lead)

But whereas Oliver was the son of Carol's (I think) cousin, he was family, whereas Mrs. Oleson took impy, mischievous Nancy off the street and dressed her up like Nellie 2.0 which was kind of disturbing

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7 minutes ago, ctlady said:

It was a means to keep the 'kid factor' in the show as all the Brady kids were grown. 

Yeah the Waltons did the same thing. 

8 minutes ago, ctlady said:

dressed her up like Nellie 2.0 which was kind of disturbing

It was super disturbing! Everything about the writing around Nancy was creepy and ridiculous. 

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I don’t know what was weirder: everyone pretending that Nancy looked exactly like Nellie (She didn’t. At all.) or everyone going along with Laura’s mean-spirited plan to publicly humiliate her in the “mermaid booth” when Nancy was clearly disturbed.

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(edited)
2 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

I don’t know what was weirder: everyone pretending that Nancy looked exactly like Nellie (She didn’t. At all.) or everyone going along with Laura’s mean-spirited plan to publicly humiliate her in the “mermaid booth” when Nancy was clearly disturbed.

This is a hill that I will die on, but I found it really off-putting how much the show patted itself on the back for its moral stand on things while repeatedly conveying the message that it was okay to be a mean bitch to people you don't like as long as you are the good guy while dragging other characters for doing the exact same thing. It's another reason I can't stand Laura past the first couple of seasons. 

Edited by Zella
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1 hour ago, ctlady said:

IBut whereas Oliver was the son of Carol's (I think) cousin, he was family, whereas Mrs. Oleson took impy, mischievous Nancy off the street and dressed her up like Nellie 2.0 which was kind of disturbing

Yeah, they tried to re-capture the magic of Laura and Nellie with Jenny and Nancy but you can't force it and it fell flat. They should have adopted a child with a different personality to inject new life into the show. And Nancy was no Nellie; she was just a whiny sociopath.

And yes, Harriet was disturbing. She admitted that the other children in the orphanage were lovely but she wanted Nancy so she can Frankenstein her into Nellie. Nancy was pretty with her long straight hair but Harriet (the writers & ML) put those curls on her. Creepy.

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3 minutes ago, debraran said:

The twins in interview found ML "scary" but he really didn't seem to like them. If they got paid by lines, he got off cheap. The 90 min show was one he must have known wouldn't be shown much but was cruel. I don't know if my memory is real or someone gave this as  opinion, but years ago I thought someone surmised their parents/mom wanted the twins to have more to do and he did that show to appease, maybe knowing it wouldn't be rerun often. One of the twins said proudly that they did most scenes in one take and she was so proud. I don't think (just my opinion) that ML did that because they were all perfection, but he didn't care about script or acting. It was an awfully bad written script.

Christ that is really mean to do that to any costar but especially little kids. 

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(edited)
5 minutes ago, Zella said:

Christ that is really mean to do that to any costar but especially little kids. 

Things were tough for Sidney and Lindsay because Landon ran a tight ship. In 2001, Lindsay told People magazine how he made the experience difficult for them:

"Michael never made it fun for us. I was always petrified I was going to make a mistake."

One of the most challenging parts of playing Carrie was not growing up on the show. Producers wanted the character to remain a little girl, so they wrote things for her that would have been for a much younger child, Sidney explained.

After eight seasons of "Little House," Sidney and Lindsay left the series because they got tired of repeatedly playing the same role. The TV show also declined in ratings.

The twins called it quits following the end of that season. For the ninth season, they rebooted the show as "Little House: A New Beginning." However, fans of the twins and their co-stars ignored the spinoff, which was canceled several months later.

Another interview stated the same:

Although the audience loved Carrie and wanted to see more of her, it was Landon himself who wasn’t impressed with them. ”Michael never made it fun for us. I was always petrified I was going to make a mistake,” Lindsay truthfully noted about working on the show. But, they were able to prove to him eventually that they were meant to be on the show, citing their favorite episode, The Godsister. 

I always feel bad they loved it so much and it gets panned on so many forums but that's life.

Edited by debraran
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28 minutes ago, debraran said:

Things were tough for Sidney and Lindsay because Landon ran a tight ship. In 2001, Lindsay told People magazine how he made the experience difficult for them:

"Michael never made it fun for us. I was always petrified I was going to make a mistake."

One of the most challenging parts of playing Carrie was not growing up on the show. Producers wanted the character to remain a little girl, so they wrote things for her that would have been for a much younger child, Sidney explained.

After eight seasons of "Little House," Sidney and Lindsay left the series because they got tired of repeatedly playing the same role. The TV show also declined in ratings.

The twins called it quits following the end of that season. For the ninth season, they rebooted the show as "Little House: A New Beginning." However, fans of the twins and their co-stars ignored the spinoff, which was canceled several months later.

Another interview stated the same:

Although the audience loved Carrie and wanted to see more of her, it was Landon himself who wasn’t impressed with them. ”Michael never made it fun for us. I was always petrified I was going to make a mistake,” Lindsay truthfully noted about working on the show. But, they were able to prove to him eventually that they were meant to be on the show, citing their favorite episode, The Godsister. 

I always feel bad they loved it so much and it gets panned on so many forums but that's life.

Yeah I never thought they were particularly very great, but I think recasting would have been kinder than doing what he did. 

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3 hours ago, Zella said:

This is a hill that I will die on, but I found it really off-putting how much the show patted itself on the back for its moral stand on things while repeatedly conveying the message that it was okay to be a mean bitch to people you don't like as long as you are the good guy while dragging other characters for doing the exact same thing. It's another reason I can't stand Laura past the first couple of seasons. 

"It is terrible to make fun of people for being overweight. Unless it's Mrs. Olson, and then it's hilarious." ( quote from the Book of Ingalls)

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29 minutes ago, jird said:

"It is terrible to make fun of people for being overweight. Unless it's Mrs. Olson, and then it's hilarious." ( quote from the Book of Ingalls)

YES! That drives me crazy!

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What was especially sad about the neglect/dumbing down of Carrie was that the RL Mrs. Wilder genuinely loved her but just worried about her poor constitution instead of considering her a dull annoyance to endure but avoid when possible like the LHOTP Laura. I mean after RL Mary lost her eyesight, RL Mrs. Wilder valued her younger sister's insights and deemed to consider her to be the closest to an intellectual in her family. Also, she and RL Grace stepped up to care for the ailing and blind RL Mary after RL Caroline's death. If ML truly didn't think the Greenbush twins were capable of portraying this evolution (or ANY kind of growth) then why didn't he recast Carrie instead of humiliate the young perfomers/ retrotrash Carrie's character?

Edited by Blergh
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I watched Goodbye Mrs Wilder yesterday and I don’t understand why all the kids would go to bat for Laura as their schoolteacher. She’s always yelling in that way that people who aren’t very authoritative do, and is short tempered and doesn’t seem especially fun. I thought Harriet was a much more interesting teacher.

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13 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

I watched Goodbye Mrs Wilder yesterday and I don’t understand why all the kids would go to bat for Laura as their schoolteacher. She’s always yelling in that way that people who aren’t very authoritative do, and is short tempered and doesn’t seem especially fun. I thought Harriet was a much more interesting teacher.

All I can think of is that since Albert was her pet and he seemed to be the most popular student that seemed to give her an in. Then maybe they preferred Laura for not requiring them to wear stockings in class (especially those who couldn't afford them). 

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48 minutes ago, Blergh said:

All I can think of is that since Albert was her pet and he seemed to be the most popular student that seemed to give her an in. Then maybe they preferred Laura for not requiring them to wear stockings in class (especially those who couldn't afford them). 

Not to mention not teaching them useless subjects that they weren't at all interested in.  And actually being interested in punishing the right person instead of just assuming that the historical troublemaker is the one actually doing the stuff.

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7 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

And I recall Laura making Cassandra take the fall and stand in the corner for Nancy smearing mud on her own dress.

Oh how that burned me up and I saw the show in it's first run and never got over the injustice. 

All this talk about Nancy reminded me how she tried to kill Albert's girlfriend. Nellie was spoiled and mean at times, but I don't remember her ever trying to kill anyone.

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On 8/1/2022 at 2:17 PM, Snow Apple said:

Oh how that burned me up and I saw the show in it's first run and never got over the injustice. 

All this talk about Nancy reminded me how she tried to kill Albert's girlfriend. Nellie was spoiled and mean at times, but I don't remember her ever trying to kill anyone.

IIRC, Miss Arngrim said that once there was an episode in which it wound up that Nellie would have been responsible for someone else's death but they decided that THAT would have been too dark and that there was no way viewers could have accepted that.

IF that's true, then it makes it all the more mind-boggling that Nancy's very FIRST episode had her plot to kill Albert's one-shot girlfriend with everyone knowing it but somehow convinced that ALL Nancy needed was to get dunked in her mermaid costume! The ONLY thing that achieved was to get Nancy to understand that Mrs. Oleson DID love her for who she was. Big woo. What about having to deal with the fact that this child was a proto-Bad Seed- trying to get another child killed JUST because others were paying attention to that child? Also, Nancy seemed to revel in Mrs. Oleson deliberately trying to use her to recreate Nellie! That just wasn't right.

Oh, yeah, that was wrong of Laura to insist Cassandra take the fall for Nancy ruining her own dress 'just this once'- because Nancy NEVER felt sorry for the other girl having been punished for her OWN actions.

Edited by Blergh
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11 hours ago, Blergh said:

IIRC, Miss Arngrim said that once there was an episode in which it wound up that Nellie would have been responsible for someone else's death but they decided that THAT would have been too dark and that there was no way viewers could have accepted th

I don't remember any episode where Nellie did or could have caused serious physical harm to anyone. Laura, on the other hand, pushed Nellie down a hill in a wheelchair and tricked her and Mrs. Olelson into putting a tree full of bees into a horse-drawn wagon. But both of those were hilarious instead of crazy dangerous, because once again, Mrs. Olseson.

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I agree, If Mr O was allergic or Nellie it could have killed them but even being bit a lot, I never thought that was funny younger or older watching. Not liking bees, it was horrific. I don't know how many of us could be pushed like that in a wheel chair and not get hurt but it was LHOP. Laura could do anything and not get punished. She messed up the chicken, didn't do the dress sewing correctly on purpose (but just hilarious)  We  had to watch her run away because she resented Charles Jr and then was guity, but then AGAIN be very mean to Albert for the same reason. She hurt Nel's too by changing prices with Albert for Mrs Oleson's "sale, a dumb script and she did deserve something I suppose but having people walk out with items, in "real" life they'd be paying them back or getting items back for damages. ; )

So many things but writing was never fair.

Edited by debraran
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Am I the only one who noticed that once Nellie married Percival, she got nice, polite and mature.  Whereas, when Laura married Almanzo, she turned into a screeching shrew?

I watched Divorce, Walnut Grove Style - which I loathed for the 'big misunderstanding' trope.  Laura physically attacks Brenda Sue in the middle of town.  She's full of rage, whereas Nellie comes out of the restaurant and is like, "what's going on?"  The old Nellie probably would've verbally jibbed Laura.  I thought Laura's reaction was immature and disgusting, especially she was physically fighting in front of her students - who were cheering her on!

There are many more post-married annoying Laura moments, but this one just takes the cake!

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3 hours ago, ctlady said:

Am I the only one who noticed that once Nellie married Percival, she got nice, polite and mature.  Whereas, when Laura married Almanzo, she turned into a screeching shrew?

I watched Divorce, Walnut Grove Style - which I loathed for the 'big misunderstanding' trope.  Laura physically attacks Brenda Sue in the middle of town.  She's full of rage, whereas Nellie comes out of the restaurant and is like, "what's going on?"  The old Nellie probably would've verbally jibbed Laura.  I thought Laura's reaction was immature and disgusting, especially she was physically fighting in front of her students - who were cheering her on!

There are many more post-married annoying Laura moments, but this one just takes the cake!

Yeah I had found Laura and Almanzo's courtship to be quite charming in the books, but she is absolutely insufferable the minute he arrives on screen for the first time. 

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Something else that just occurred to me re 'Back to School (Part Two)'.  Despite the fact that Nellie clearly was doing nothing more attempting to defend herself against Laura's physical attack in the aftermath of having deliberately sabotaged Laura's chances for passing the teaching exam, after pulling Laura off her, Almanzo doesn't say or do anything to try to help Nellie. In fact, not only is his entire dialogue with Laura but he leaves the very muddied (etc.) Nellie behind when he takes Laura to his place- as though Nellie was just a dumb animal Laura had attacked(and herself had no need to get cleaned up)

Then,too, despite the fact that Almanzo lived with his older sister Eliza Jane (whose absence in the Wilder home during this time is entirely unexplained), Almanzo only gives Laura HIS robe after helping to clean her up and making her tea- NOT any of his sister's apparel. Even had Charles not made a beeline and  walloped Almanzo, WHERE was Laura supposed to have worn a man's robe and did he plan to drop her off at her farm afterwards (had she not run away across who knows how many farms wearing said robe)? Although Eliza Jane was barely acquainted with Laura, I think after Almanzo explained what had happened,  she would have been willing to have retroactively allowed her brother to let  Laura borrow one of her housedresses so she'd have had something more feminine (and conventional) to have worn  after she'd soiled her own clothes not only for the sake of helping to preserve what was left of Laura's rep but to keep the newly settled Wilder sibs from having 'the neighbors' question them ).

Of course, as it is, after Laura declared that she was 'a woman, a woman' and hated 'them all' then run off, it would seem more likely than not that Almanzo ,who never so much as sewed holes in his own socks,would have 'asked' Eliza Jane (and she'd have agreed) to have washed Laura's clothes. In any case, Laura WAS seen wearing those clothes again and, eventually, Almanzo was seen wearing that robe but how and when they got exchanged/cleaned was never spelled out.

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