Little House On The Prairie - General Discussion

[debraran]

3 hours ago, Blergh said:

I think Miss MacGregor had been a 'starving actress' for virtually her entire career to the point that she believed that she could survive just fine on any pittance and believed she'd be okay if she was let go. Of course, she was divorced and childless so she had no family to support so that may have helped. But it seems she DID earn enough on LHOTP to essentially live comfortably the rest of her life without performing in any movies or TV shows after the show ended but maybe she had somehow learned to save and  invest very well from early on.  Yeah, it must have irked ML to have someone  who didn't fawn all over him and even openly debated him on the set- yet whose contributions were vital for the show's chemistry to succeed.

Yes, Katherine didn't like him right off, saying he was "strutting around like a peacock" lol.  Melissa G mentioned his dirty jokes in an older interview last year.

Looking back, Gilbert could tell some of her Little House on the Prairie costars were upset by Landon’s dirty jokes. 

“I don’t think the grownups liked that that much, by the way,” Gilbert said. The grown up women did not appreciate it. The two main female actors of the adults were Karen Grassle, obviously playing Ma, and Katherine MacGregor who played Mrs. Olson. These are two very trained theater actresses who have a process and a preparation and they do things their way. So they’re not accustomed to this ribald [atmosphere].

Not even so much for their content, but how he interrupted their preparations.

“It’s very interruptive of an actor’s process to go from joking [to dramatic] unless you’re used to that,” Gilbert continued. “At the time the jokes were inappropriate and I think some of the ladies got a little offended at times. I would now if I heard some of this stuff. I might be bothered by it.”

It was a different time when Melissa Gilbert was on the show

Gilbert acknowledged that today, actors would refrain from uncomfortable humor, not the least of which because of #MeToo. In the permissive ‘70s it was condoned.

“You can’t do this anymore,” Gilbert said. “You just can’t. It’s just not doable and it’s great. It’s fine. Listen, there’s a lot of stuff going on on that set that you can’t do now.”

When I was young it was a lot of poop jokes, lots of fart jokes, lots of booger jokes.

She did mention Karen and Katherine were really offended by the dirty and very dirty at times jokes. Even the KKK joke he did with Moses Gunn, dressing in the sheet, you had to laugh even if it wasn't funny, but it was "him". Alison mentioned he just did what he wanted, he was the boss. It doesn't mean he couldn't be kind, but when he wasn't, there wasn't another to go too. That must have been a good and bad thing at times.

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by debraran

[Blergh]

15 hours ago, Paul Q. said:

Having an abusive mother probably messed up ML really bad though. My own mother’s problems would likely never have happened had she not lost her own mother when Mum was 16, compounded by Mum losing her only daughter to infant cancer when Mum was just 25.

Yes, I agree that Mrs. Orowitz's unhinged abuse of him as a child and persecution of him as an adult likely were contributing factors to ML's shadowside. 

Of course, it should be noted that he DID financially support her despite that. However, even that wasn't enough to keep her from making harassing phone calls to him AND spreading lies to the rags about him 'abandoning and neglecting' her after he had become prosperous. 

[CountryGirl]

I'm kind of watching "The Castoffs" and my goodness, I forgot what a bitch Laura was to poor Jack. I'm also side-eyeing Pa thinking he could insta-replace Jack with Bandit. 

[jird]

30 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I'm kind of watching "The Castoffs" and my goodness, I forgot what a bitch Laura was to poor Jack. I'm also side-eyeing Pa thinking he could insta-replace Jack with Bandit. 

It kinda sucked to be Bandit. Pa was dumb thinking he'd just replace Jack, and Laura was mean to him just because he wasn't Jack. Poor guy.

[Mr. Sparkle]

If I'm not mistaken, that was the first episode with Garvey, and they did no introduction at all. Just like "hey Garvey, you've been living here the whole time, right?" 

I rewound the Gold Rush episode a few times and never quite found where the moment where the Edwards said they were leaving. 

I also hate Keizia, but that's another story. 

[Pirpana]

^About the Garveys, same for me, too. In this episode I just thought "Oh, well, one of those best friends we have never heard of and never will again". But in the following episode pa mentions just in passing in Chicago that the Edwards had moved to California. Then I thought, "well, that was a curved ball out of nowhere", and wondered why.

In the following episodes I discovered the Garveys really were best friends we've never heard of but we will in the future. I thought, this is a nice change to pattern while waiting Edwardses to come back.

I didn't know about the behind-the-scenes drama back then, because I kept myself in total radio silence until I had watched (and translated) the whole show because I didn't want to get any spoilers. This was back in 2014-2016 when restored Blu-rays were released.

 

I was as much surprised to see Kezia back for a few more episodes but I agree, I didn't like her either. Or should I say, didn't like her two full-blown episodes (she had one or two guest appearances as comical relief, as well). Like you have already covered, a grown man should have known you can't replace a dead pet with another just like that, not while the old one is practically still warm six feet under.

And in the other one, Lake Kezia Monster, they were just too old to believe in sea monsters. Like the bully was too old to believe in werewolves in werewolf episode. And overall it was a very strange decision to bring her back for one episode after so long time. Back in the 70's the viewers had probably already forgot the whole character.

As a side note, where was Kezia when the whole town practically withered and died at the beginning of season 5?

[Zella]

3 hours ago, jird said:

Laura was mean to him just because he wasn't Jack. Poor guy.

Laura was also really awful to Jack right before he died. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

39 minutes ago, Pirpana said:

But in the following episode pa mentions just in passing in Chicago that the Edwards had moved to California.

Did he??? I have to look that up. I've always wondered how they just seemed to disappear. 

ETA: the grange episode where John Edwards turns out to be a two-timer. That makes sense. Luckily Bobby Brady was there to pick up the pieces! 

[debraran]

10 hours ago, Paul Q. said:

A lot of LHOTP reeks of 1970s post Womens Lib. See also Hotlips on MASH.

OT: I know I’m easily amused but it’s kinda of funny that the feminist Organization that started Take Our Daughters to Work Day *wanted* create a Take Our Sons Home Day equivalent day for boys but that second one never got off the ground.

The MASH set was so nice though, they all stayed pretty much friends and I love when Alan Alda has them on his show like a mini reunion. I liked how much they respected each other and helped each other with lines and ideas. Quite a different set. Jokes weren't made to throw off another persons lines but to break up tension between takes. The scripts grew too in time as Alan Alda got more clout:"As the show and times went on, Alda — a liberal and self-professed “feminist” — gained more influence, and both “M*A*S*H” and his character moved away from such sexist gags on the show. "

I find what went on behind the scenes of shows more disturbing than what they had on it. Hopefully women can be on shows now and movies without thinking they have to put up with gross jokes and men touching them and treating them like objects.

[jason88cubs]

they never did have a Thanksgiving themed episode did they?

[CountryGirl]

3 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

they never did have a Thanksgiving themed episode did they?

In Part II of Journey In The Spring (S3.E7), there was a bit of Thanksgiving, where Carrie thought the turkey Charles got for the dinner was going to be her pet and she was calling him Tom. 

[jason88cubs]

For some reason I randomly thought of "the ANgrey Heart " episode today and the scene where Charles was holding the kid saying "i dont wanna hurt you son" and all that. I don't know why but it made me chuckle a bit

[methodwriter85]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:58 AM, Blergh said:

Well, keep in mind that ML's hair screams '1970's anachronism on an 1870's show'!  Ever see the episode in which Pa for some reason had to swim in Plum Creek near the sawmill? He emerged looking like a drowned rat!  This likely is the reason why Pa didn't wear his hair slicked back as would have been the style for those men who hung onto long hair after it became unfashionable after the Civil War. 

Apparently Alison Arngrim joked about this on her stand-up- "PA was a dirt poor farmer...with a $137 dollar Beverly Hills haircut." LOL.

I still will never forget Melissa Sue Anderson writing that she "cleverly" hid her Farrah hair bangs with a barrette. LOL.

[debraran]

Should get Karen's book today. Be nice to read something different. She's had daily "reviews" by friends and costars on her website and had book launching yesterday. She had quite an interesting life with her share of issues. She's been posting pics every day on her website, some of her young, teens, etc and some from LHOP. In one she's tickling Melissa Sue while "Scotty" watches. I hope there are more candids we never have seen online. I love those, the posed pics are okay but the candid I enjoy more.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by debraran

[Blergh]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

Should get Karen's book today. Be nice to read something different. She's had daily "reviews" by friends and costars on her website and had book launching yesterday. She had quite an interesting life with her share of issues. She's been posting pics every day on her website, some of her young, teens, etc and some from LHOP. In one she's tickling Melissa Sue while "Scotty" watches. I hope there are more candids we never have seen online. I love those, the posed pics are okay but the candid I enjoy more.

 

 

It's kind of hard to imagine 'Ma' to have tickled Mary except perhaps in toddlerhood- but what did Mrs. Oleson have to say about that? LOL!

If nothing else, I CAN imagine Miss Grassle likely will reveal herself to be somewhat deeper (with perhaps having had more tough times) than the 1970's viewers would have ever imagined! 

[debraran]

9 minutes ago, Blergh said:

It's kind of hard to imagine 'Ma' to have tickled Mary except perhaps in toddlerhood- but what did Mrs. Oleson have to say about that? LOL!

If nothing else, I CAN imagine Miss Grassle likely will reveal herself to be somewhat deeper (with perhaps having had more tough times) than the 1970's viewers would have ever imagined! 

Oh yes.  Alcoholism and promiscuity at times, an affair with Gil Gerard and that was my free chapter ;). She wanted to be honest. Some are criticizing her remarks on Landon but nothing I haven’t heard before.  If you were a casual fan, then yes a shocker 

Edited November 16, 2021 by debraran

[Egg McMuffin]

On 11/12/2021 at 4:59 PM, Superclam said:

If I'm not mistaken, that was the first episode with Garvey, and they did no introduction at all. Just like "hey Garvey, you've been living here the whole time, right?" 

I rewound the Gold Rush episode a few times and never quite found where the moment where the Edwards said they were leaving. 

I also hate Keizia, but that's another story. 

LHOTP is big on Suspiciously Similar Substitutes. I wonder if ML made Merlin Olson grow that beard so that Jon Garvey could be more like Edwards. But the characterizations weren’t the same - Garvey was like Edwards on Valium. And the reverse was true of the wives; we lost the sweet, mellow Grace for that bitch-on-wheels Alice.

I also hate Kezia, and hated her when she was Maude’s maid too.

[CountryGirl]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

Oh yes.  Alcoholism and promiscuity at times, an affair with Gil Gerard and that was my free chapter ;). She wanted to be honest. Some are criticizing her remarks on Landon but nothing I haven’t heard before.  If you were a casual fan, then yes a shocker 

So Ma was Buck-Rogered after all!

Get it, Karen!

[debraran]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

So Ma was Buck-Rogered after all!

Get it, Karen!

I KNEW the chemistry wasn't all acting. I always liked him more than Pa. Just wasn't a Landon fan that way.

My book was delayed until 25th they say even though I preordered it. Karen said it was very popular, I don't think they expected the number of books but have no idea what they put aside for first printing.

[CheshireCat]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:57 AM, Blergh said:

Of course, what's odd is that a few years earlier when Mary got her glasses(that she fake lost)  in 'Four Eyes', no one mentioned that she'd had any problems besides becoming more than slightly nearsighted - much less that she'd ever had had Scarlet Fever as a child.

I think it's something the doctor would have needed to ask for, especially back in the day when I don't think non-medical people had access to any information on medical research.

But did the doctor have reason to suspect during that very first visit? If memory serves, they visit the doctor twice before Mary goes blind and it's only the second time that he recognizes that she's going to go blind?

[Blergh]

20 hours ago, Kyle said:

LHOTP is big on Suspiciously Similar Substitutes. I wonder if ML made Merlin Olson grow that beard so that Jon Garvey could be more like Edwards. But the characterizations weren’t the same - Garvey was like Edwards on Valium. And the reverse was true of the wives; we lost the sweet, mellow Grace for that bitch-on-wheels Alice.

I also hate Kezia, and hated her when she was Maude’s maid too.

I didn't hate Kezia (or the performer Hermione Baddeley) but I did think it was bogus fantasy that this aging woman would have attempted to settle in a 'house' without even any kind of roof- in the 1870's Minnesota?! The first drizzle or frost would have ended that 'fantasy' real fast!  This may have worked in winter- and nearly  rain-free California but NOT Minnesota. 

BTW, Miss Baddeley was the younger sister of Angela Baddeley who hit the heights of international fame playing  the Upstairs,Downstairs cook Mrs. (Kate)Bridges  - someone from the same working class British background as Kezia and Mrs. Naughatuck but with far more rigid viewpoints on what was 'proper'. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Blergh

[jird]

I didn't mind Kezia in her first episode, but didn't like her in any of the other episodes she showed up in. Like, apparently we're supposed to find it all quirky and charming when she reads everyone's mail (but how dare Mrs. Oleson listen in on phone calls). 

[BigBingerBro]

5 hours ago, Blergh said:

I did think it was bogus fantasy that this aging woman would have attempted to settle in a 'house' without even any kind of roof- in the 1870's Minnesota?! The first drizzle or frost would have ended that 'fantasy' real fast!  This may have worked in winter- and nearly  rain-free California but NOT Minnesota. 

Well it seemed she actually slept in the still-intact fruit cellar and only sat in the roofless house during the day.  I guess in the winter she would have stayed in the fruit cellar or found other more warmer accomodations.

I could never follow her movements.  At first she was squatting at the house frame, then she was the Oleson's maid at their lake house, then at times she was working at the post office.  

[libgirl2]

6 hours ago, Blergh said:

I didn't hate Kezia (or the performer Hermione Baddeley) but I did think it was bogus fantasy that this aging woman would have attempted to settle in a 'house' without even any kind of roof- in the 1870's Minnesota?! The first drizzle or frost would have ended that 'fantasy' real fast!  This may have worked in winter- and nearly  rain-free California but NOT Minnesota. 

BTW, Miss Baddeley was the younger sister of Angela Baddeley who hit the heights of international fame playing  the Upstairs,Downstairs cook Mrs. (Kate)Bridges  - someone from the same working class British background as Kezia and Mrs. Naughatuck but with far more rigid viewpoints on what was 'proper'. 

I never knew that!!! thanks! 

[debraran]

Read Karen's book, came after I got my booster shot and took a day in case I didn't feel well. Just tired, so a nice reading in bed day.

For fans, most of the first 200 pages is how Karen got to TV and her life from childhood to teens and college, addictions and tribulations being a woman at that time in Hollywood. It touches on LHOP of course, but not in depth the way the kids did their books. She seemed close to "missy" Melissa Sue, liked the children, but she saw things as an adult would. She told stories of Mike, good and bad, but we know how he can be egotistical and full of himself so not a shock. I wish she had more about personal interactions with some of them but it was about her, not them. She was friendly with Scotty and "Ms Beadle and respected them all. She also mirrored how I felt about the show at the end, last few years, and gave a little background to why she wasn't in some show or got little air time. It explained the truth of why Harriet wasn't there too at the end, or her version of it.

I wish there had been more pictures, 6 or 7 from LHOP but when you think of the time from the show to now and before, that was about fitting for her life.

I'm glad I bought it, interesting and fit the mood I was in at the time, I admit I skimmed a bit of her early life. I was tired and thought I could go back if I wanted too later.

Edited November 22, 2021 by debraran

[Egg McMuffin]

Why wasn’t Harriet there at the end? Those last three movies without her are so dreary.

[Pirpana]

^ I've read she was on a pilgrim journey in India being a Hindu religion exerciser. But maybe Karen gave a somewhat different explanation. I'm also interested, debraran.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Pirpana

[Blergh]

Yeah, I'm wondering if, originally, the producers gave Miss MacGregor an earlier end-date than it wound up being and she made her pilgrimage plans based on the initial date!

[Egg McMuffin]

24 minutes ago, Pirpana said:

^ I've read she was on a pilgrim journey in India being a Hindu religion exerciser. But maybe Karen gave a somewhat different explanation. I'm also interested, debraran.

Maybe she was having an affair with Michael Landon!

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Yeah, I'm wondering if, originally, the producers gave Miss MacGregor an earlier end-date than it wound up being and she made her pilgrimage plans based on the initial date!

I'm pretty sure I've read something along this line before--that she left the country on her pilgrimage because she was under the impression they wouldn't be filming at the time. 

[debraran]

Karen said she had had it with Michael and all the stress. She wrote when doing the "blow up finale" (she also thought was strange) Scotty refused to appear, her bitterness over Mike lack of appreciation had bled so deeply into her spirit, she couldn't bear to be there."

Mike was not nice to many on the show with money or appreciation and Scotty didn't like his affair either but no one did. It was unseemly, not that he fell, but had her there, gave her different jobs, her age, 18, she said at first (?) and other things. Mike wasn't an angel like many men but it was the disruption on the set just watching it. When you are in that infatuation stage, it's hard to not have it spill over I suppose. Many were loyal to his family and felt out of sorts.

I remember an interview with Kevin Hagan and he mentioned not getting much money either. It was steady work though.

I'm glad Karen and Michael made peace with each other before he died. Mike called her to do finale, they talked before he died, she admired how he handled that amid the paparazzi etc.

Mike liked complete control, even her great movie on domestic violence, it had the time slot after LHOP which she loved, and he in his power, had it changed because he thought LHOP fans (being dense I guess) would be confused why "ma" was being hurt. It still did well, but he should have left it there. Charlotte Stewart's book said he liked unknowns or people from the play/broadway world, since most fans wouldn't know them and they were cheaper. He didn't want the set reused or even the clothes! Old western costars and workers were very loyal to him. Charlotte's book touched on her admiration but also the drinking, philandering and you see the whole picture in a way. Everyone had their lens, their reality, their perspective depending how they were treated, how they were brought in and what was expected of them. Some of the best shows were when he allowed another writer to give input or took an idea from them. He was very talented but like all of us, far from perfect. I feel bad so many passed now and so many had drinking/smoking habits that quickened that death. I'm glad the show will be on a long time. Even if unreal in it's depiction, it gives you the warm feeling most of us yearn for. Karen once asked if her hands could be aged to match the work in the heat/fields etc. for a part, they looked so beautiful and Mike was aghast, "Then we'd have to do your face!" Not really, women hid that under bonnets but hands, even today, are the signs of age. I see both points though. It wasn't supposed to ever be real.

Another tidbit was The Award, was all Caroline because Mike was in the hospital. He admired how well she did it and she liked the drama of the fire, the fight with Mary, stretching her abilities a bit. She wasn't the "star" but I realize how boring it was to be given "Coffee?" episodes when he got more time. I'm not glad he was sick, but I'm glad she got to replace him and do a wider part.

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by debraran

[Blergh]

Interesting take that Miss Grassle had re Miss MacGregor's absence. What's odd that is virtually everyone else (including Miss MacGregor herself in post-show interviews) stuck with the 'she was away on a pilgrimage to India and THAT was the only reason she wasn't there' spin.  Perhaps over time Miss MacGregor decided that it was better to let go her earlier angst over ML's treatment than to keep nursing that wound when addressing her absence from the last part of the show. Oh, it's interesting that, all three 'adult' surviving cast members who've left behind bios have sung Miss MacGregor's praises as a friend  on the set as well as a performer. It's also interesting that Miss Grassle and Miss Gilbert  referred to her as 'Scottie' in their accounts while Miss Anderson, Miss Arngrim, Miss Lester and Miss Stewart all referred to her as 'Katherine'. Of course, it should be noted that, prior to LHOTP she was billed as either 'Katherine' or 'Scottie' but her original given name was Dorlee Deane McGregor. I wonder if she asked some to call her one name while asking others to call her the other OR did those who referred to her as 'Katherine' only do so for the readers to better keep track.  

Yes, it's too bad that ML's insistence of favoring his evidently barely legal flame at the workplace made it awkward for everyone else. One of the few circumstances that I sympathized with Miss Gilbert in her autobio was when she said that at work she had to be 'pro Mike' (to not rock the boat or the gravy train) while in her family home she had to be 'pro Lynn' (since her mother with her OWN unconventional marital history seemed more sympathetic to the 2nd Mrs. Landon ). 

It's also interesting that Miss Grassle tried to insist on aging her hands to reflect the toil of a homesteading pioneer woman yet ML wouldn't have it for Caroline. I admire her dedication to wanting to be realistic- but OTOH, it saved her from having to put prosthetic gunk onto her hands (and working with said gunk on them) so it's just as well! 

Yes, I have to agree that the 'blow up finale' was rather strange and counter to the whole 'work hard and put pride into your work even if you have to start all over again' message. Miss Stewart went so far as to say that she has never watched it and never WILL because she can't bear to see the destruction of a place she'd loved so much.  For Miss Stewart's sake, it's just as well that Miss Beadle had long since departed and would have had no reason to have been invited back to have to witness it. And, all it accomplished was to make it that much easier for the railroad company to put whatever they wanted on the property while leaving the townsfolk scattered to the winds and homeless (even Mr. Oleson couldn't have so easily 'bounced back').

I wondered why Miss Grassle got to shine nearly solo in 'The Award' but, even though it took a hospitalization on ML's part to achieve this (who was running the show during that time?), she sure DID shine on this. The only thing that's frustrating is that we got very few scenes of Ma and Laura bonding in the whole series and it would have been nice had there been an episode for them doing so. 

 

 

[debraran]

3 hours ago, Blergh said:

Interesting take that Miss Grassle had re Miss MacGregor's absence. What's odd that is virtually everyone else (including Miss MacGregor herself in post-show interviews) stuck with the 'she was away on a pilgrimage to India and THAT was the only reason she wasn't there' spin.  Perhaps over time Miss MacGregor decided that it was better to let go her earlier angst over ML's treatment than to keep nursing that wound when addressing her absence from the last part of the show. Oh, it's interesting that, all three 'adult' surviving cast members who've left behind bios have sung Miss MacGregor's praises as a friend  on the set as well as a performer. It's also interesting that Miss Grassle and Miss Gilbert  referred to her as 'Scottie' in their accounts while Miss Anderson, Miss Arngrim, Miss Lester and Miss Stewart all referred to her as 'Katherine'. Of course, it should be noted that, prior to LHOTP she was billed as either 'Katherine' or 'Scottie' but her original given name was Dorlee Deane McGregor. I wonder if she asked some to call her one name while asking others to call her the other OR did those who referred to her as 'Katherine' only do so for the readers to better keep track.  

Yes, it's too bad that ML's insistence of favoring his evidently barely legal flame at the workplace made it awkward for everyone else. One of the few circumstances that I sympathized with Miss Gilbert in her autobio was when she said that at work she had to be 'pro Mike' (to not rock the boat or the gravy train) while in her family home she had to be 'pro Lynn' (since her mother with her OWN unconventional marital history seemed more sympathetic to the 2nd Mrs. Landon ). 

It's also interesting that Miss Grassle tried to insist on aging her hands to reflect the toil of a homesteading pioneer woman yet ML wouldn't have it for Caroline. I admire her dedication to wanting to be realistic- but OTOH, it saved her from having to put prosthetic gunk onto her hands (and working with said gunk on them) so it's just as well! 

Yes, I have to agree that the 'blow up finale' was rather strange and counter to the whole 'work hard and put pride into your work even if you have to start all over again' message. Miss Stewart went so far as to say that she has never watched it and never WILL because she can't bear to see the destruction of a place she'd loved so much.  For Miss Stewart's sake, it's just as well that Miss Beadle had long since departed and would have had no reason to have been invited back to have to witness it. And, all it accomplished was to make it that much easier for the railroad company to put whatever they wanted on the property while leaving the townsfolk scattered to the winds and homeless (even Mr. Oleson couldn't have so easily 'bounced back').

I wondered why Miss Grassle got to shine nearly solo in 'The Award' but, even though it took a hospitalization on ML's part to achieve this (who was running the show during that time?), she sure DID shine on this. The only thing that's frustrating is that we got very few scenes of Ma and Laura bonding in the whole series and it would have been nice had there been an episode for them doing so. 

 

 

I forgot who told Karen  he was sick but He approved it having little choice. I forgot who writer was. Katherine told her to call her Scotty, they were close and maybe others a little less so. I doubt Katherine wanted to spread gossip but she always had her moments with Michael.  Never afraid to say what she wanted.  She got Hersha to confront Mike once ( and she got change) and offered advice for free to anyone ;)  Many knew what Karen was going through but there was one boss and it took a lot to muster courage for many. 
Karen also mentioned how Carrie was “under developed” as a character. I guess that sums it up. 

On a different note, no one ever mentions "Mr Hansen" really and I liked what she said about him here.

Edited November 23, 2021 by debraran

[Pirpana]

What's interesting is that The Award was in fact ML's first solo writing credit. For this show, I mean.

[debraran]

33 minutes ago, Pirpana said:

What's interesting is that The Award was in fact ML's first solo writing credit. For this show, I mean.

She never outwardly said he wrote it, She said John Hawkins the producer called her (which was unusual) and said Mike was in the hospital with spinal meningitis and on ice and they were rewriting the script so she could play it. I can't see him now at all in it, but I guess he'd yell at Mary, Laura would walk. ; )

She really enjoyed it and she asked John Hawkins if she could change a scene and he agreed. It was the Rev Alden one and she said John seemed thankful because the scene hadn't been flowing. She also heard Mike's fever broke then too.  She said when he returned he thanked her for the contribution and said it took years for him to do things like that on Bonanza. She told him she had a lot of theater and was older than he was on Bonanza. He liked that. The first year was good.

[Egg McMuffin]

Thanks debraran for the answer about Katherine MacGregor and the final two-hour episodes. I never bought the whole “pilgrimage to India” reason. Even if she only appeared in the finale, it would have only taken her about 2-3 weeks to shoot, so you’d think she could have worked her trip around the shooting. I had read that she’d had previous tension with Landon; at one point he wanted to let her go but he knew that she was too important to the series. So Karen’s reason for Katherine’s absence in the final episodes make sense.

[Blergh]

What's sad is that it seems that Miss MacGregor's experiences with ML seemed to permanently turn her off from attempting to participate in movie or television productions of any kind after LHOTP's end- although she DID teach acting classes on for some time thereafter.  I don't know how 'educational' they may have been but I can't help but think that the students never forgot the time or experiences they had with her!

[Egg McMuffin]

I watched the interview Katherine MacGregor did about 10-15 years ago on Youtube. My guess is that she didn’t let her experience with Landon prevent her from doing any other jobs she wanted to do. She had done a number of TV guest roles in the 60s and early 70s, and then she did her nine year stint as a series regular - and did it brilliantly. And then she wanted to go off and do other things. She seemed like a person who really knew what she wanted to do, and wasn’t afraid to forge a new path.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Kyle

[debraran]

She discusses The Award about 11 minutes in and her chance to play a larger part.

[Blergh]

7 hours ago, debraran said:

She discusses The Award about 11 minutes in and her chance to play a larger part.

Interesting take on her part, yet sad that so much of the middle years seem to have been strained due to her wanting to be better compensated and him refusing to consider this. Ironically, Miss Grassle seems as though she'd be a bit shy if one wasn't in her circle of friends, yet she definitely is someone who will NOT back down from what she believes is fair! 

[debraran]

4 hours ago, Blergh said:

Interesting take on her part, yet sad that so much of the middle years seem to have been strained due to her wanting to be better compensated and him refusing to consider this. Ironically, Miss Grassle seems as though she'd be a bit shy if one wasn't in her circle of friends, yet she definitely is someone who will NOT back down from what she believes is fair! 

Yes, she fought quietly for what she wanted. She mentioned when he was really treating her badly, even "Missy" Melissa Sue, whom she played backgammon with seemed to withdraw, no one wanting the wrath on them but she understood. He would tell her she had an "Emmy" performance one day but then refused to let her do something like the mom in the "Boy in the Bubble" movie. We know there were weeks she wasn't in it or barely, but back then he had power or what anyone did on contract. She did Movie, Battered, about domestic abuse on break but he still had last word on when it aired on their channel. She's very proud of that movie and the change it evoked in homes and police dept used it as training film.

You can tell his decisions about bringing Cassandra and James in and Nancy were not run by others.....he wanted the show to have youth but it wasn't just that. The 2 part episode with James being shot was done when things were really bad and it was like he did it pretty much alone and took the last 2 episodes that year. For some reason, the magic with little Laura and Mary couldn't' be duplicated with James and Cassandra and Albert all in that house. Plus Carrie and Grace were not shown often or even missing at times.

I would have loved to see a spin off show with Nellie and Laura and kids or Jonathan if he didn't want to still leave. Even for 2-3 years it would have been fun and not trying to replicate what they had before.

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by debraran

[Egg McMuffin]

Landon was a hard worker and a talented man, but clearly was a flawed leader. When you are alienating some of your best team members (Grassle and MacGregor) and letting them walk away, you’re doing something wrong as a leader.

Grassle, a really lovely onscreen presence, was criminally underused. Imagine how many more episodes they could have gotten out of the series had they used her a bit more. I also don’t think Landon was great at long term vision and was so locked into the old school mentality of absolute self-contained episodes even as the industry was changing. Nellie and Percival are a great example of this; the show could have gotten so much more mileage out of their courtship had it taken place over the course of an entire season. Even the Winoka arc, unusual for LHOTP in that it took place over four or five episodes, could have been milked for a lot longer, and it would have generated more emotion when the families returned to Walnut Grove.

[Pirpana]

^I agree completely. That Winoka stint was very much a missed opportunity. They utilized their bigger town setting only in three episodes out of five. Football and fat man episodes could have easily taken place in Winoka with minimal rewriting. Those had absolutely nothing in them that required them to be in Winoka.

[Zella]

That Winotka excursion was so infuriating. It had so much potential and then just went nowhere. 

[Brn2bwild]

7 hours ago, Kyle said:

Grassle, a really lovely onscreen presence, was criminally underused. Imagine how many more episodes they could have gotten out of the series had they used her a bit more. I also don’t think Landon was great at long term vision and was so locked into the old school mentality of absolute self-contained episodes even as the industry was changing. Nellie and Percival are a great example of this; the show could have gotten so much more mileage out of their courtship had it taken place over the course of an entire season. 

I agree 100 percent.  Grassle rocked nearly every scene that she was in -- in addition to using her more, imagine if Landon had written her reactions so that they were always in character.  I hate those scenes where the women overreact to bad news, their eyes wide, clawing the air, and screaming.  I just don't see Grassle's Ma reacting that way, even to the worst news.

[Blergh]

Of course, it needs to be mentioned that Miss Grassle's co-star in Battered (1978) Mike Ferrell had a LOT more to risk than did ML.  I mean, he had become famous playing B.J. Hunnicut in M*A*S*H - Hawkeye's dedicated sidekick who was the closest thing the show had to a Boy Scout- and in this movie he was playing the charming,cleancut and  professional but VERY abusive husband to Miss Grassle's character! Not only was he willing to buck the squeaky-clean typecasting but he also was willing to play an abuser who was neither an overt, brutish ogre nor a comical Punch-and-Judy type but as someone who was a street angel and house devil that no outsider would have pegged for being an abuser! In 1978, this was a rather daring venture for a performer to be willing to accept (and be willing to risk alienating his M*A*S*H fanbase)  but he was willing to do this and did it quite effectively!

[debraran]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

Of course, it needs to be mentioned that Miss Grassle's co-star in Battered (1978) Mike Ferrell had a LOT more to risk than did ML.  I mean, he had become famous playing B.J. Hunnicut in M*A*S*H - Hawkeye's dedicated sidekick who was the closest thing the show had to a Boy Scout- and in this movie he was playing the charming,cleancut and  professional but VERY abusive husband to Miss Grassle's character! Not only was he willing to buck the squeaky-clean typecasting but he also was willing to play an abuser who was neither an overt, brutish ogre nor a comical Punch-and-Judy type but as someone who was a street angel and house devil that no outsider would have pegged for being an abuser! In 1978, this was a rather daring venture for a performer to be willing to accept (and be willing to risk alienating his M*A*S*H fanbase)  but he was willing to do this and did it quite effectively!

I agree, I remember before The Burning Bed etc came out, this was a big deal and Mr Farrell survived quite well. It seemed to an outsider like me, that "maybe" Mike was afraid she'd get more popular and want to leave or do more. If he kept her there on the set, making coffee, than she was safe. To have her turn down a play or show or even the mom in the Bubble movie, that's control. Of course when Victor left, he was mad at him but they made up over a cup of their special coffee at a later time. ; ) Mike  said once that she over estimated her popularity but she didn't. Her and Marion on Happy Days were always favorite moms and when given an opportunity, she would have shined more on show as stated by many fans.

I must say though, the "popcorn" scenes will never be the same to me now. Sure some were fine, they had laughs, but others had those crass jokes and sexual references. They were always filmed when the kids went home. He never made a pass at her, but "Ms Beadle" said she knows he opened the door for her but she wouldn't go through it. He was her boss. Of course Charlotte and Mr Edwards were another thing........

Edited November 26, 2021 by debraran

[jason88cubs]

On 11/26/2021 at 10:22 AM, Zella said:

That Winotka excursion was so infuriating. It had so much potential and then just went nowhere. 

Agree

It was so random

[Blergh]

11 hours ago, jason88cubs said:

Agree

It was so random

I could be wrong but I think it was a case of them either renovating their old indoor sets or moving to an entirely new indoor studio altogether that prompted this but, once the renovation/move was done, they were right back in Walnut Grove!  

Of course, they glossed over the fact that the Ingalls , Garvey  and even the Oleson families appeared to each be sleeping in a single room each- with ONE bed during their times in Winoka (and there was barely any acknowledgment of Mary's move  to her new blind school much less what HER sleeping arrangements were). 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Blergh

[jason88cubs]

Though I make fun of this show, I honestly believe watching this made me a better person. Just nicer, more helpful all that