Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[WendyCR72]

Just now, TakomaSnark said:

I totally want to start a pet hotel called 'Paws & Boarders.'

That's an awesome idea and name! Really, it's clever. 😊

[peacheslatour]

If Officer Ice has been on the job for eleven years, maybe he should retire. Poor boy has cataracts too.

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

I have a friend who knew several of Dahmer's victims and - since Tagman was obviously based on Dahmer - I can never fathom the sympathy Bobby feels for him, nor the sympathy I feel we are expected to feel vicariously (at least, through Goren's sympathy for him).

Tagman was a monster. What he did to those women was horrible and unforgivable. Goren's feelings were so weirdly misplaced in that case.

Yep I cannot understand why Goren felt sympathy for Tagman - his crimes were among the most heinous we ever saw on CI. Tagman deserved a lethal injection IMO, what he did was beyond sick and horrific. Goren really irritated me in this episode and I found his sympathy for the loony woman in Semi Detached a couple of episodes earlier bizarre as well. 

[Andyourlittledog2]

Watched the season three episode The Saint today and was shocked that I never noticed that Stephen Colbert played the bad guy in it. He looked so young in 2001 that I kept thinking that maybe it wasn't really him so I checked the guy's ear and sure enough, it was his wonky ear.  He played a stiff and bottled up character so it worked for him. I'm afraid if he had to play someone more exuberant Colbert wouldn't have the acting chops to pull it off. But it worked. I like him as a comedian much better though.

I love these Sundance and WE marathons. I miss CI so much.

[WendyCR72]

38 minutes ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Watched the season three episode The Saint today and was shocked that I never noticed that Stephen Colbert played the bad guy in it. He looked so young in 2001 that I kept thinking that maybe it wasn't really him so I checked the guy's ear and sure enough, it was his wonky ear.  He played a stiff and bottled up character so it worked for him. I'm afraid if he had to play someone more exuberant Colbert wouldn't have the acting chops to pull it off. But it worked. I like him as a comedian much better though.

I love these Sundance and WE marathons. I miss CI so much.

And the victim that Colbert's character killed, the actress playing her ended up on Daredevil as villain Wilson Fisk's mother. Fisk, of course, is played by Vincent D'Onofrio.

Funny how it all ties together.

And I love the marathons, too! I also miss this show.

[Xeliou66]

I just watched Lonelyville, I don’t recall ever seeing this episode discussed on here before and I like it, it has an interesting and complex case with the blackmail scheme and con artists with the lawyer and girlfriend setting up the writer to be blackmailed, I liked the Logan/Falacci investigation. As I’ve said before I really wish Falacci had stayed on instead of dull as dirt Wheeler. Ross was actually decent in this episode and not as much of a dick as usual. Good episode.

[peacheslatour]

11 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just watched Lonelyville, I don’t recall ever seeing this episode discussed on here before and I like it, it has an interesting and complex case with the blackmail scheme and con artists with the lawyer and girlfriend setting up the writer to be blackmailed, I liked the Logan/Falacci investigation. As I’ve said before I really wish Falacci had stayed on instead of dull as dirt Wheeler. Ross was actually decent in this episode and not as much of a dick as usual. Good episode.

I really liked Falacci too. Second only to Eames. As you say, I wish she had been permanent. Wheeler was such a flat character.

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I really liked Falacci too. Second only to Eames. As you say, I wish she had been permanent. Wheeler was such a flat character.

Yep, Falacci was better than Wheeler, and I like all 5 of Falacci’s episodes. 

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yep, Falacci was better than Wheeler, and I like all 5 of Falacci’s episodes. 

I liked that Logan became the default "voice of reason". Lol.

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I liked that Logan became the default "voice of reason". Lol.

Yeah that was an interesting role reversal. Logan was much calmer and more seasoned on CI than he was on the Mothership, I guess between age and experience and being demoted and sent to Staten Island for assaulting the politician he changed. Falacci added an interesting dynamic to the show, and I wish she had stuck around. I found all 5 of Falacci’s episodes interesting, I particularly liked Senseless and Lonelyville. Wheeler just did nothing for me, and it doesn’t help that her seasons are when I felt CI’s writing was at its weakest, I have the controversial opinion of season 6 being the weakest CI season, and I really disliked all of the angst they put Goren through in seasons 6-7, meaning I enjoyed the Logan episodes more usually from that time.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I really disliked all of the angst they put Goren through in seasons 6-7, meaning I enjoyed the Logan episodes more usually from that time.

Speaking of which, in my market they're having Untethered at 4:00 pm. I will not be watching. 

[Xeliou66]

15 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Speaking of which, in my market they're having Untethered at 4:00 pm. I will not be watching. 

I noticed it was on earlier, Purgatory is on now, I switched over to Mothership reruns on Sundance when they started as I would rather watch seasons 13-14 Mothership episodes over season 7 of CI. Don’t like the angst they put on Goren at all in seasons 6-7, he lost his mojo and became worn down with baggage.

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I noticed it was on earlier, Purgatory is on now, I switched over to Mothership reruns on Sundance when they started as I would rather watch seasons 13-14 Mothership episodes over season 7 of CI. Don’t like the angst they put on Goren at all in seasons 6-7, he lost his mojo and became worn down with baggage.

I hate what they did to him in those seasons. Here, they had probably one of the greatest actors to ever grace a television screen and they wasted him.

[Xeliou66]

10 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I hate what they did to him in those seasons. Here, they had probably one of the greatest actors to ever grace a television screen and they wasted him.

Yep I hate it as well and it’s why I don’t consider seasons 6-7 of CI to be must see tv and I don’t make it a point to watch those seasons when they air - when the first 5 seasons of CI are on I frequently rewatch those episodes over and over, and then there was a sharp decline in the show in season 6 - I hated how they took away a lot of the complex, in depth cases in favor of soapy drama. I’m glad season 10 happened and gave us back the Goren we knew, he regained his mojo then and the 8 season 10 episodes felt more like classic CI than the soapy mess of seasons 6-7. 

[WendyCR72]

"Lonelyville" was okay, but I cannot reconcile Tammy as both a cunning accomplice with "Lee" as detailed versus the drip the show had shown on screen.

She bugged me for whatever reason.

And with the numerous guys they blackmailed, you mean to tell me they NEVER made ONE mistake, with no one coming forward before Anya was murdered?

As I said, it was okay, but the plot holes distracted me.

I do wish there was a postscript of where Falacci went after Wheeler came back, whether back to Brooklyn or elsewhere.

But then, it seemed the franchise never explained the fates of any of the temporary partners/detectives it had, so...

[Jaded]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yep, Falacci was better than Wheeler, and I like all 5 of Falacci’s episodes. 

It seemed like more than 5 episodes.  I'm glad others agree that she was better than Wheeler too. 

[WendyCR72]

Looking at the Season 7 episode list:

"Seeds"

"Lonelyville"

"Courtship"

"Offense"

"Senseless"

These were all the Falacci episodes, so yep...only 5! And ending on "Senseless" was sort of a downer, anyway, given the subject matter.

Still wonder if there was something more planned with the character since TPTB had Wheeler find Falacci's "Princess" mug on her desk, but maybe it was just meant as a joke. But that seemed rather pointless.

[ML89]

I wish Falacci had stayed too, she and Logan seemed to have fun together while Wheeler was a drip, honestly. Seeds always cracks me up because Logan had the EXACT same case on Mothership with the doctor impregnating women with his own sperm and he never mentions it. What's that joke about "if I had a nickel for each time it's happened to me, I'd have two but..."

Edited February 17, 2023 by ML89

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, ML89 said:

I wish Falacci had stayed too, she and Logan seemed to have fun together while Wheeler was a drip, honestly. Seeds always cracks me up because Logan had the EXACT same case on Mothership with the doctor impregnating women with his own sperm and he never mentions it. What's that joke about "if I had a nickel for each time it's happened to me, I'd have two but..."

And practically the same TITLE, too. "Seed"/"Seeds". Times like that, you can tell the same folks worked across all shows in the franchise!

Never got why Falacci was so worried when Logan almost forgot his "wedding ring" in the one scene, though. Doubt workers really look for that, not to mention many couples just live together now, anyway.

Maybe prickly Falacci had a soft/romantic spot. LOL!

[peacheslatour]

Oh you guys, such sad news.

Richard Belzer, dead at 78

Richard Belzer, who began his career as a comedian and morphed into his iconic role of police detective John Munch first in Homicide: Life on the Street and then in Law & Order: SVU, among other TV dramas, died today. He was 78. There are no specifics at press time on the cause of his death.

“I'm so sad to hear of Richard Belzer's passing,” tweeted original Saturday Night Live cast member Laraine Newman. “I loved this guy so much. He was one of my first friends when I got to New York to do SNL. We used to go out to dinner every week at Sheepshead Bay for lobster. One of the funniest people ever. A master at crowd work. RIP dearest.”

 

[WendyCR72]

Kind of bummed that we never got a Munch/Goren scene. The quirkiness would have been in the stratosphere.

[Xeliou66]

16 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Kind of bummed that we never got a Munch/Goren scene. The quirkiness would have been in the stratosphere.

I’ve always said the franchise really missed out by never having a Munch/Goren scene, those were the 2 most unique detectives in the franchise. And Munch appeared on so many shows - it’s a real shame he never crossed over to CI. I really wish the franchise had done some sort of 3 way crossover with Mothership/CI/SVU back when all of the shows were on, the way they did with Mothership/SVU/OC this season. There are so many characters I would’ve liked to have seen interact with each other. 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’ve always said the franchise really missed out by never having a Munch/Goren scene, those were the 2 most unique detectives in the franchise. And Munch appeared on so many shows - it’s a real shame he never crossed over to CI. I really wish the franchise had done some sort of 3 way crossover with Mothership/CI/SVU back when all of the shows were on, the way they did with Mothership/SVU/OC this season. There are so many characters I would’ve liked to have seen interact with each other. 

I would have liked seeing Goren and Stabler. I wonder how Stabler's machismo would rub up against Goren's deeply penetrating insight.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I would have liked seeing Goren and Stabler. I wonder how Stabler's machismo would rub up against Goren's deeply penetrating insight.

Yeah, as much as I like both Goren and Stabler, I think Goren wouldn't like Stabler's rough-going style, and I think Goren would annoy Stabler!

[peacheslatour]

Just now, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, as much as I like both Goren and Stabler, I think Goren wouldn't like Stabler's rough-going style, and I think Goren would annoy Stabler!

I think so too but I think Goren would catch him out pretty easily.

[WendyCR72]

Oh, good. "Frame" is on WE now. Ross gets to amplify his douchiness.

[Xeliou66]

47 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Oh, good. "Frame" is on WE now. Ross gets to amplify his douchiness.

Ross was such a smug turd. And I hated how they made Rodgers look bad in Frame by giving Goren’s personal info to the douche. Hinting at a Rodgers/Ross relationship was such a terrible move. 

[peacheslatour]

11 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Ross was such a smug turd. And I hated how they made Rodgers look bad in Frame by giving Goren’s personal info to the douche. Hinting at a Rodgers/Ross relationship was such a terrible move. 

Captain Ross - Douche Deluxe.

[WendyCR72]

"Playing Dead" is ending. Betty Gilpin, who played Stacy, really has gone on to a good career. I know she was in the now-defunct GLOW which was on Netflix.

(She also played the victim, Amanda, daughter of the police commissioner, in Season 6 in "The War At Home".)

The last of the marathon, "Rock Star", is next, a.k.a. Zack Nichols makes his debut.

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Playing Dead" is ending. Betty Gilpin, who played Stacy, really has gone on to a good career. I know she was in the now-defunct GLOW which was on Netflix.

(She also played the victim, Amanda, daughter of the police commissioner, in Season 6 in "The War At Home".)

The last of the marathon, "Rock Star", is next, a.k.a. Zack Nichols makes his debut.

Unpopular opinion here but I liked Nichols. If only he had a decent partner.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Unpopular opinion here but I liked Nichols. If only he had a decent partner.

I thought I was the only one who thought Nichols was a decent character! It’s just too bad his partners were lifeless and wooden - if he had had a good partner, as well as a better commanding officer, his episodes would be viewed better. I liked his 2 episodes paired with Eames.

[peacheslatour]

58 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I thought I was the only one who thought Nichols was a decent character! It’s just too bad his partners were lifeless and wooden - if he had had a good partner, as well as a better commanding officer, his episodes would be viewed better. I liked his 2 episodes paired with Eames.

I did too. I wouldn't put him with Falacci but someone with some spunk would have been nice.

[WendyCR72]

Never saw this video: The cadaver from the S10 episode, "Cadaver" (duh!) speaks!

 

[Xeliou66]

Watching Family Values now with religious fanatic killer Paul Devildis, it’s a creepy and chilling episode, good one though, Goren was really good in it and had more energy than he normally had at this point of the show and Ross for once wasn’t irritating. I like season 8 better than most people, it wasn’t great but it didn’t have all of the soapy shit of seasons 6-7. I really like Goren’s final confrontation with Devildis. 

[peacheslatour]

11 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Watching Family Values now with religious fanatic killer Paul Devildis, it’s a creepy and chilling episode, good one though, Goren was really good in it and had more energy than he normally had at this point of the show and Ross for once wasn’t irritating. I like season 8 better than most people, it wasn’t great but it didn’t have all of the soapy shit of seasons 6-7. I really like Goren’s final confrontation with Devildis. 

Huh. I always skip that one. Mr. Devil-dis (get it?) is just a little too creepy for me. And I really don't like listening to that kind of preaching. It's good to know that Goren got some of his mojo working again though.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Huh. I always skip that one. Mr. Devil-dis (get it?) is just a little too creepy for me. And I really don't like listening to that kind of preaching. It's good to know that Goren got some of his mojo working again though.

Yeah Goren did have his mojo in that episode. Devildis was super creepy, that’s for sure, he was a deranged nutbag spree killer and it was implied he had an attraction to his daughter and that’s why he took her to the country house and didn’t kill her when he was killing everyone else in his life. Definitely a dark and disturbing episode. 

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah Goren did have his mojo in that episode. Devildis was super creepy, that’s for sure, he was a deranged nutbag spree killer and it was implied he had an attraction to his daughter and that’s why he took her to the country house and didn’t kill her when he was killing everyone else in his life. Definitely a dark and disturbing episode. 

And it's way past Season four, where things got really dark.

[Xeliou66]

Just now, peacheslatour said:

And it's way past Season four, where things got really dark.

Season 4 is definitely the darkest season - so many weird and creepy episodes in that season. No other season matched it in terms of darkness. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I really like Goren’s final confrontation with Devildis. 

Yes! VDO brought back some of Bobby's passionate interrogation there. (Of course, a life was at stake. Maybe why?) But that scene was so well done by both Vincent D'Onofrio and David Harbour!

Now "All In", the "is he Josh Snow or is he Joey Frost?" episode has just started.

I don't hate S8, it just seemed...a bit disjointed what with airing out of order and being so short due to the 2008 Writers' Strike...

[Xeliou66]

10 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yes! VDO brought back some of Bobby's passionate interrogation there. (Of course, a life was at stake. Maybe why?) But that scene was so well done by both Vincent D'Onofrio and David Harbour!

Now "All In", the "is he Josh Snow or is he Joey Frost?" episode has just started.

I don't hate S8, it just seemed...a bit disjointed what with airing out of order and being so short due to the 2008 Writers' Strike...

Yep, and season 8 is even more disjointed since they don’t air the episode The Glory That Was now, episode 8, because some people in Brazil got offended about it apparently. That’s so fucking bizarre. And yeah All In is so confusing, why didn’t they just keep the same character from Cruise to Nowhere, even if they had to get a different actor to play him? It takes me out of the whole episode it’s so confusing. Cruise to Nowhere in season 5 was a great episode though.

But yeah I do like Family Values and especially Goren confronting Devildis at the end, and the darkness of it and creepiness of Devildis gave the episode a horrific feel that was effective. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yep, and season 8 is even more disjointed since they don’t air the episode The Glory That Was now, episode 8, because some people in Brazil got offended about it apparently. That’s so fucking bizarre.

Was it Brazil or the International Olympic Committee that was offended? Meh, I guess it doesn't matter, but it is strange how that episode has NEVER aired after its lone original debut, cannot be streamed or purchased, and is only found on the European Season 8 DVD set.

"Alpha Dog" is the final episode of the marathon, the weird episode with a model's murder and Eames' connection to one of the folks involved.

Roger Rees played a megalomaniacal jealous husband well. Although I remember him best as Robin Colcord from Cheers.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Was it Brazil or the International Olympic Committee that was offended? Meh, I guess it doesn't matter, but it is strange how that episode has NEVER aired after its lone original debut, cannot be streamed or purchased, and is only found on the European Season 8 DVD set.

"Alpha Dog" is the final episode, the weird episode with a model's murder and Eames' connection to one of the folks involved.

Roger Rees played a megalomaniacal jealous husband well. Although I remember him best as Robin Colcord from Cheers.

I think it was some people in the Brazilian government who got pissed about The Glory That Was. It is very bizarre that it doesn’t air anywhere now. 
Alpha Dog is a weird episode, too many people to keep track of and I couldn’t quite figure out what all of the characters motivations were. But yeah the guy who played Duke, the main villain, did a good job, he also played a good villain in a great Mothership episode, Kid Pro Quo, from season 13 - the smug headmaster of an elite private school.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

But yeah the guy who played Duke, the main villain, did a good job, he also played a good villain in a great Mothership episode, Kid Pro Quo, from season 13 - the smug headmaster of an elite private school.

I remember that now that you mention it!

[Xeliou66]

Good season 5 marathon on now 

Saving Face was on first, this is a good episode, it’s interesting in that it’s one of the few times the detectives left the country during the case, in this case going to Guatemala. I felt terrible for the victim, she was a good person killed in a terrible way just so the doctor’s fraud could continue. Then again, I felt a bit sorry for Christine, since she had never been allowed to live her own life and was just a replacement for Frederick, I liked that Logan called out the parents for using her as a spare. It was a nice tidbit of knowledge that we found out about Rodgers, that she originally planned to be a surgeon but couldn’t stomach cutting into a live person.

Scared Crazy is the episode I’m watching now, with the unusual death by flying vending machine to start the episode. Fascinating case with Robbie and his therapist. Deakins line about the crying baby CD’s being used for birth control was hilarious. 

[ML89]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Saving Face was on first, this is a good episode, it’s interesting in that it’s one of the few times the detectives left the country during the case, in this case going to Guatemala. I felt terrible for the victim, she was a good person killed in a terrible way just so the doctor’s fraud could continue. Then again, I felt a bit sorry for Christine, since she had never been allowed to live her own life and was just a replacement for Frederick, I liked that Logan called out the parents for using her as a spare. It was a nice tidbit of knowledge that we found out about Rodgers, that she originally planned to be a surgeon but couldn’t stomach cutting into a live person.

That was one of my favorites - you felt a little sorry for the perp until you remembered what she did. What a sick group. I also loved Rodgers' explanation about surgery and why she didn't go that way, great bit of writing and acting.

[Xeliou66]

48 minutes ago, ML89 said:

That was one of my favorites - you felt a little sorry for the perp until you remembered what she did. What a sick group. I also loved Rodgers' explanation about surgery and why she didn't go that way, great bit of writing and acting.

I agree it’s a really good episode - the perp committed a heinous murder but it was kind of understandable how she became so bad - her parents never let her live her own life. Not an excuse but it does explain a lot. It was another episode with sorry parents, a theme CI loved. I liked seeing the perp throw a wine bottle at the portrait of Frederick before being arrested, and those rotten parents were more upset about their portrait being damaged than about their daughter being arrested it seemed. 

[ML89]

24 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I agree it’s a really good episode - the perp committed a heinous murder but it was kind of understandable how she became so bad - her parents never let her live her own life. Not an excuse but it does explain a lot. It was another episode with sorry parents, a theme CI loved. I liked seeing the perp throw a wine bottle at the portrait of Frederick before being arrested, and those rotten parents were more upset about their portrait being damaged than about their daughter being arrested it seemed. 

Is this the one where Barek speaks Spanish and Logan says he knows how to say "what's your sign in 14 languages"? I taped it to watch, haven't seen it in awhile.

[Xeliou66]

27 minutes ago, ML89 said:

Is this the one where Barek speaks Spanish and Logan says he knows how to say "what's your sign in 14 languages"? I taped it to watch, haven't seen it in awhile.

No I think that’s Barek and Logan’s first episode, Diamond Dogs. Barek does speak Spanish in Saving Face to one of the witnesses though. 

[peacheslatour]

I just watched Proud Flesh. Talk about horrible parents. Malcolm McDowell's comment after his son was gunned down "That's what sons are for." Made my blood run cold.

Edited March 6, 2023 by peacheslatour

[Xeliou66]

48 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I just watched Proud Flesh. Talk about horrible parents. Malcolm McDowell's comment after his son was gunned down "That's what sons are for." Made my blood run cold.

What the fuck was Proud Flesh even about? I’ve never been able to figure out that episode, and I’ve watched it several times. None of it made much sense - I guess Jonas Slaughter had his son killed but why? And he seemed like he cared about his wife and daughter but then at the end went on a bizarre racist rant against them. And who actually killed the victim - was it the business associate of Slaughter? And how convenient was it that the other son was able to make a long statement about killing his brother before he died. And the judge releasing Slaughter on his own recognizance was absurd, he was charged with murder, no judge would let someone off with no bail for that, especially not in a high profile case. Proud Flesh may be the most confusing CI episode - it was beyond convoluted and nothing really made sense in the end, the only thing that was for certain was that Jonas Slaughter was heartless and evil, but nothing added up.