Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

Grace didn’t give her a chance. Her mindset was kill first and ask questions later. And I don’t feel sorry for her at all. You don’t kill a witness even if your kid was being unjustly railroaded.

Yeah, I wish that Mrs. Hoyes got arrested too. Unfortunately it doesn’t look like she could be charged with anything on paper.

Oh, I don't feel sorry for Grace. Just saying that she was lit up by the A.D.A.'s wife.

A good defense attorney could make the argument that Mrs. Hoyes was responsible. 

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh, I don't feel sorry for Grace. Just saying that she was lit up by the A.D.A.'s wife.

A good defense attorney could make the argument that Mrs. Hoyes was responsible. 

Yeah. Unfortunately, with Mrs. Hoyes own hubby being a DA, she probably skated. Welcome to the world of the privileged.

However, I did feel sorry for Grace in terms of her being desperate to protect her son, who was financially disadvantaged when it came down to deals, etc. But I also felt for Traci. Seems like she got in over her head in trying to help a friend (albeit in a dishonest way).

But Gene - for all of his bluster about justice - seemed more about the headlines and the pontificating for attention than actually caring at all about the truth. Once he became aware that Traci was a virgin, he should have taken a long look at the case and the details not adding up, but he forged ahead, and in doing so, also let the dear missus also become drunk with power.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Watched "Purgatory" last night and am soooo conflicted.

I get Alex being pissed off and feeling betrayed, but what choice did Bobby have? It's all on that fuckhead Ross and the uberfuckhead chief of DICKS*, who made it a condition that the only way Bobby could get his badge back was to go undercover and tell NO ONE.

I just feel so bad for Bobby. Even Alex said it to Seth Gilliam's character-"jumping through hoops for the NYPD" when he asked how Bobby was doing.

Would Alex have been able to maintain ignorance if Bobby had told her? I hate Warren Leight so GODDAMN much for ruining so much of Bobby and writing Alex out of character during this season.

*Why are all, and I mean ALL-across the board of the shows-Chief of Detectives such UNMITIGATED, UBERFUCKHEADED ASSHOLES? The one on the Mothership during seasons 7-8, when Van Buren had her lawsuit, was racist, to boot. Even the one from season 4, in "Competence" was a racist asshole. The one in the final season (who was also in season 18, who started as an asshole) came around. He realized Van Buren had cancer and was suffering from chemo and recommended medical marijuana-something he took when he had his bout with cancer. But that's just ONE out of how many shows and seasons?

And then there was "Senseless" which really was...senseless, in terms of the victims.

And this was Falacci's last appearance, I think. Boo!

But then it's also Mike's last season.

Edited February 8, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Dirtybubble]

1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Watched "Purgatory" last night and am soooo conflicted.

I get Alex being pissed off and feeling betrayed, but what choice did Bobby have? It's all on that fuckhead Ross and the uberfuckhead chief of DICKS*, who made it a condition that the only way Bobby could get his badge back was to go undercover and tell NO ONE.

I just feel so bad for Bobby. Even Alex said it to Seth Gilliam's character-"jumping through hoops for the NYPD" when he asked how Bobby was doing.

Would Alex have been able to maintain ignorance if Bobby had told her? I hate Warren Leight so GODDAMN much for ruining so much of Bobby and writing Alex out of character during this season.

*Why are all, and I mean ALL-across the board of the shows-Chief of Detectives such UNMITIGATED, UBERFUCKHEADED ASSHOLES? The one on the Mothership during seasons 7-8, when Van Buren had her lawsuit, was racist, to boot. Even the one from season 4, in "Competence" was a racist asshole. The one in the final season (who was also in season 18, who started as an asshole) came around. He realized Van Buren had cancer and was suffering from chemo and recommended medical marijuana-something he took when he had his bout with cancer. But that's just ONE out of how many shows and seasons?

Please don't mince words, tell us how you really feel 😲

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Dirtybubble said:

Please don't mince words, tell us how you really feel 😲

I was trying to be diplomatic!😝

[peacheslatour]

Just watched On Fire. When Deakins resigned, it was so anticlimactic. Did Goren and Eames even shake his hand? If so I missed it because it was like they just said they were sorry and walked out of his office.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Just watched On Fire. When Deakins resigned, it was so anticlimactic. Did Goren and Eames even shake his hand? If so I missed it because it was like they just said they were sorry and walked out of his office.

Deakins exit was so fucking weak. At least he got an exit, but it was a weak one, I thought it didn’t make sense that Deakins would just resign instead of fighting Adair and his minions, they had proof that Adair was setting him up, and Deakins always seemed like a fighter who wouldn’t give up so easily. And he didn’t get a satisfying goodbye with Goren/Eames, they didn’t shake his hand and they weren’t even shown in the squad room when Deakins left in the next episode. Oddly enough, the person Deakins got the warmest goodbye with was Carver, Carver shook his hand and called him “my friend” which was unusually warm for the reserved Carver. 

[peacheslatour]

1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

Deakins exit was so fucking weak. At least he got an exit, but it was a weak one, I thought it didn’t make sense that Deakins would just resign instead of fighting Adair and his minions, they had proof that Adair was setting him up, and Deakins always seemed like a fighter who wouldn’t give up so easily. And he didn’t get a satisfying goodbye with Goren/Eames, they didn’t shake his hand and they weren’t even shown in the squad room when Deakins left in the next episode. Oddly enough, the person Deakins got the warmest goodbye with was Carver, Carver shook his hand and called him “my friend” which was unusually warm for the reserved Carver. 

I think the way Carver and Deakins were treated were disgraceful.

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I think the way Carver and Deakins were treated were disgraceful.

No argument from me! Dickless Wolf. 🤬I think Vance and Sheridan just had five year contracts, and either didn't want to renew, or were let go.

I suppose we should be GRATEFUL, they weren't killed off.🙄😒

[hatchetgirl]

I don't know if y'all have chatted about Goren's cameo in Work in Progress.  ADORABLE and VDO was sweet to do it.  

[Xeliou66]

16 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I think the way Carver and Deakins were treated were disgraceful.

Amen. Deakins exit was really weak, and Carver didn’t even get an exit!! Like you said, disgraceful. I really wish they had been given more satisfying goodbyes. I’d like to think Carver went on to become a judge and that’s why he left, he would’ve made an excellent judge IMO, and Deakins hopefully got to enjoy retirement with his family. Very disappointing though how they exited, and it’s too bad neither of them returned in CI’s final season.

[peacheslatour]

4 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Amen. Deakins exit was really weak, and Carver didn’t even get an exit!! Like you said, disgraceful. I really wish they had been given more satisfying goodbyes. I’d like to think Carver went on to become a judge and that’s why he left, he would’ve made an excellent judge IMO, and Deakins hopefully got to enjoy retirement with his family. Very disappointing though how they exited, and it’s too bad neither of them returned in CI’s final season.

There was something up with the show runners. They worked VDO like a rented mule and treated Jamie Sheridan and Courtney B. Vance so dismissively. It makes me sad.

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

There was something up with the show runners. They worked VDO like a rented mule and treated Jamie Sheridan and Courtney B. Vance so dismissively. It makes me sad.

I know Sheridan wanted to leave because he lived with his family in California and was tired of going back forth from NYC to California, don’t know why Vance left. I agree that both Deakins and Carver were greatly underused, and the show really wasn’t the same without them, they lost a lot when they got rid of the legal stuff, and replacing Deakins with Ross the Douche was a huge drop off, and it pissed me off how Ross got way more screen time than Deakins. 

[peacheslatour]

1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

I know Sheridan wanted to leave because he lived with his family in California and was tired of going back forth from NYC to California, don’t know why Vance left. I agree that both Deakins and Carver were greatly underused, and the show really wasn’t the same without them, they lost a lot when they got rid of the legal stuff, and replacing Deakins with Ross the Douche was a huge drop off, and it pissed me off how Ross got way more screen time than Deakins. 

I couldn't stand Ross. What a terrible character with no redeeming traits.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I know Sheridan wanted to leave because he lived with his family in California and was tired of going back forth from NYC to California, don’t know why Vance left. I agree that both Deakins and Carver were greatly underused, and the show really wasn’t the same without them, they lost a lot when they got rid of the legal stuff, and replacing Deakins with Ross the Douche was a huge drop off, and it pissed me off how Ross got way more screen time than Deakins. 

Wasn't Courtney V. Vance married to Angela Bassett at the time, and so it was the same situation as Jamey Sheridan?

I can't stand Eric Bogosian. His character on the mothership was such a blowhard asshole. I cheered when he bought it. Ross, that is. I wouldn't wish Bogosian dead.

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I couldn't stand Ross. What a terrible character with no redeeming traits.

Ross is arguably the most unlikable main character in the whole L&O franchise. He was an absolute douche, an arrogant, smug turd who was extremely condescending to his detectives. Couldn’t stand him and didn’t feel anything when he took a bullet. And I hated the implications of a romance between him and the awesome ME Rodgers.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

And I hated the implications of a romance between him and the awesome ME Rodgers.

I'm blaming all that on Rodgers grieving Lennie's death.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!

[Dirtybubble]

59 minutes ago, hatchetgirl said:

I don't know if y'all have chatted about Goren's cameo in Work in Progress.  ADORABLE and VDO was sweet to do it.  

You mean the TV show Work in Progress--no I haven't seen him in that.  What episode/season was he in?  

[peacheslatour]

8 minutes ago, Dirtybubble said:

You mean the TV show Work in Progress--no I haven't seen him in that.  What episode/season was he in?  

I'll sit through Mystic Pizza all the way just for a couple of scenes he's in.

[WendyCR72]

13 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I get Alex being pissed off and feeling betrayed, but what choice did Bobby have? It's all on that fuckhead Ross and the uberfuckhead chief of DICKS*, who made it a condition that the only way Bobby could get his badge back was to go undercover and tell NO ONE.

I just feel so bad for Bobby. Even Alex said it to Seth Gilliam's character-"jumping through hoops for the NYPD" when he asked how Bobby was doing.

Would Alex have been able to maintain ignorance if Bobby had told her?

I felt awful for Bobby, but I also saw Alex's side. She never gave Bobby a reason to not trust her since she had his back for 8 years, so this sort of pulled the rug out from under her. Maybe she would not have reacted as strongly if the way it went down - guns drawn on each other - didn't occur. In such a fraught situation, I can understand Alex's emotions taking over. If you remember, that was the first thing she brought up, complete with trembling voice, "That's all you have to say to me? I could have blown your head off back there!"

And she did lie without issue when Ross asked what happened when the perp in "Depths" was pushed into the water by Bobby as Alex told Ross the perp "slipped and fell". I think she could have kept the secret, even if she seethed underneath at the brass, if just for Bobby's sake.

But then, I blame Ross and his boss, too, for all of this, so...

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I felt awful for Bobby, but I also saw Alex's side.

Right. That's what I said. And why I lay all of this on Ross' and whatever the name of Mike Pniewski's Chief of UBERFUCKHEAD Detectives.

It's why I'm conflicted about this episode because I feel so bad for Bobby, but also see Alex's side of things.

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Right. That's what I said. And why I lay all of this on Ross' and whatever the name of Mike Pniewski's Chief of UBERFUCKHEAD Detectives.

It's why I'm conflicted about this episode because I feel so bad for Bobby, but also see Alex's side of things.

Yeah. I'm just glad that she seemed to forgive him fairly quickly in "Betrayed", which just aired the other night actually. She started off frosty to Bobby but then the store scene and Bobby's sort of deferring to her "apology" afterwards seemed to break the ice, and they seemed back in sync when grossed out by Trina's sex tape there. LOL! (Seriously. Look at their faces and how gingerly Bobby takes the tape!)

And, as discussed, that was another episode where Ross was a mega douche with zero objectivity. And I felt sorry for Rodgers in one scene there since, I guess, wasn't she still "dating" Ross as he was all up into Kathy Jarrow? Insensitive ass.

[WendyCR72]

On 2/8/2022 at 4:06 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Wasn't Courtney V. Vance married to Angela Bassett at the time, and so it was the same situation as Jamey Sheridan?

I think Courtney B. Vance is still married to Angela Bassett. I know he appeared with her on the final season of ER as Bassett's character's husband. (Angela played Dr. Cate Banfield.)

On 2/8/2022 at 4:42 PM, peacheslatour said:

I'll sit through Mystic Pizza all the way just for a couple of scenes he's in.

That was a cute movie. And I loved Bill!

On 2/8/2022 at 3:32 PM, hatchetgirl said:

I don't know if y'all have chatted about Goren's cameo in Work in Progress.  ADORABLE and VDO was sweet to do it.  

What is "Work in Progress" and in what season is this cameo? Thanks!

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I think Courtney B. Vance is still married to Angela Bassett. I know he appeared with her on the final season of ER as Bassett's character's husband. (Angela played Dr. Cate Banfield.)

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply they were no longer married, but like Jamey Sheridan, he was married and they lived in CA. Maybe that's why they didn't try to convince him to stay?

[WendyCR72]

14 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply they were no longer married, but like Jamey Sheridan, he was married and they lived in CA. Maybe that's why they didn't try to convince him to stay?

Could be. Such a commute, week in and week out, must take a toll. Still - and not to blame either Sheridan or Vance here, as I did love their characters - it does make me wonder just why they took the roles to begin with? Surely they knew all L&O shows (minus L&O: Los Angeles, for obvious reasons!) were New York based?

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah. I'm just glad that she seemed to forgive him fairly quickly in "Betrayed", which just aired the other night actually. She started off frosty to Bobby but then the store scene and Bobby's sort of deferring to her "apology" afterwards seemed to break the ice, and they seemed back in sync when grossed out by Trina's sex tape there. LOL! (Seriously. Look at their faces and how gingerly Bobby takes the tape!)

And, as discussed, that was another episode where Ross was a mega douche with zero objectivity. And I felt sorry for Rodgers in one scene there since, I guess, wasn't she still "dating" Ross as he was all up into Kathy Jarrow? Insensitive ass.

Betrayed had Ross at his absolute worst and that’s saying something, he was a dick to Goren/Eames and like you said had no objectivity to the point where he shouldn’t have been involved in the case.

[Sigmagirl]

22 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

 

And she did lie without issue when Ross asked what happened when the perp in "Depths" was pushed into the water by Bobby as Alex told Ross the perp "slipped and fell". I think she could have kept the secret, even if she seethed underneath at the brass, if just for Bobby's sake.

 

I’ve watched that scene so many times and it always has seemed to me that Harper was trying to grab the radio away from Goren to tell them not to raise the ship, and he slips. Goren could have caught him but just let him go. 
Everybody else says he pushed him, so I guess he did.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

I’ve watched that scene so many times and it always has seemed to me that Harper was trying to grab the radio away from Goren to tell them not to raise the ship, and he slips. Goren could have caught him but just let him go. 
Everybody else says he pushed him, so I guess he did.

I have some episodes ripped from my DVDs to my computer, and this was one of them, so I watched the end. First, for context, I think Simon Harper's words to Bobby sort of lit a fuse, as Harper says, "A man with no parents, no kids, what is he? Nothing! His life is wasted!"

Then Bobby says how not everyone can have that and the talk segues to the fortune. As Eames starts reading Harper his Miranda rights, Harper again lunges for Goren's radio as Bobby grabs Harper's arm and he is sort of flung into the water. So...not a direct push, but flung, both by Bobby and by Harper going for the radio. Call Bobby half responsible with Harper setting it all off.

As an aside - and I have said this before - even with the extra weight, I think VDO looked AWESOME in this episode, with the tan, scruff, and the shorter hair going on! Yes, I'm shallow. Sue me. LOL!

[hatchetgirl]

Work in Progress is this adorable show on Showtime (https://www.sho.com/work-in-progress) about this nutty, neurotic lesbian, who has the hots for Bobby Goren.  He's in episode 2.7 and 2.8.  

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, hatchetgirl said:

Work in Progress is this adorable show on Showtime (https://www.sho.com/work-in-progress) about this nutty, neurotic lesbian, who has the hots for Bobby Goren.  He's in episode 2.7 and 2.8.  

Wow, weird concept! But thanks!

[hatchetgirl]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Wow, weird concept! But thanks!

Totally weird, but oddly works.  When he first showed up I stopped and said "wait - that's MY Bobby Goren!"  lol

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, hatchetgirl said:

Totally weird, but oddly works.  When he first showed up I stopped and said "wait - that's MY Bobby Goren!"  lol

Cool that he did that! I know, for a time, VDO seemed to have a sort of antipathy for the character. Seems he has warmed back up to Bobby in recent years. I wish, in a way, he would pop up on either the revived Mothership or OC (no thanks to SVU!), or even in a CI revival movie. But then I remember how the long hours got to him and don't think that will happen...

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh GOD. The HYPOCRISY of Ross knows no bounds. He’s all up in the investigation in “Betrayed” because he still has the hots for Brenda String’s character. But then tells Mike he’s “too involved” in “Ten-Count” when he’s trying to tell him and useless Wheeler that Peter was innocent. I laughed my ass off when Peter told them he brother didn’t betray him with his fiancée because Gabriel was gay. The DUH? look on their faces was priceless.

Then again, the episodes may have been aired out of order-Bobby’s missing and returning beard and Mike’s haircut are my guides.

Oh! Wheeler’s shady and criminal fiancé also appears in the final season of the mothership as the skeevy, dirty, former ADA (Who we never saw or heard of and I refuse to believe Adam would hire someone like him) who always sneers and makes digs at Connie that she and Mike are sleeping together, so why doesn’t she let him have a hit at her?

I’m out after Mike’s last episode.

I’ll probably watch season 10.

 

ETA: correction: I’m only gonna watch the Bobby and Alex episodes.

Edited February 11, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I’m out after Mike’s last episode.

Last Rites? It was just on. What was it with this show and terrible exits? Logan's, Carver's and Deakins' were all lame as hell.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Last Rites? It was just on. What was it with this show and terrible exits? Logan's, Carver's and Deakins' were all lame as hell.

All I remember was reading Noth was leaving. And in one article he was quoted as saying that he had squeezed out as much as possible from the character of Mike Logan. I don’t know if he and Wolf had another fallout or what.

What pissed me off was that somehow, the Queens ADA had any kind of power over Major Case when it was under Manhattan County-meaning JACK was who they answered to. As has been shown in previous seasons on the mothership and on this show. I loathed Driver so much. And that Ross proved he didn’t have his detectives’ back, but sucking up to the politicians. DEAKINS had the backs of his cops and supported them.

Edited February 11, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[peacheslatour]

5 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

All I remember was reading Noth was leaving. And in one article he was quoted as saying that he had squeezed out as much as possible from the character of Mike Logan. I don’t know if he and Wolf has another fallout or what.

What pissed me off was that somehow, the Queens ADA had any kind of power over Major Case when it was under Manhattan County-meaning JACK was who they answered to. As has been shown in previous seasons on the mothership and on this show. I loathed Driver so much. And that Ross proved he didn’t have his detectives’ back, but sucking up to the politicians. DEAKINS had the backs of his cops and supported them.

Exactly. That's why he retired. He knew a protracted fight with Adair would drag his detectives through hell.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Interesting. They skipped over Nichols’ introduction.

I still don’t understand “Frame”. But Ross was even more of an UBER ASSHOLE.

[ML89]

I got so tired of Wheeler's lack of expression and after her failure to even try and stop them from beating up Logan in Maltese Cross, I never cared for her.

Logan's write out was terrible. I like to think he went to work for the DA's office. I also will argue that Mike went to Van Buren's fundraiser, and brought an envelope with cash and checks from him, Ed Green and Rey Curtis. It said "from Lennie's partners" or something similar on it.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oohhh! Forgot about Peacock!

Watching season one now! “Pilot.”

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Interesting. They skipped over Nichols’ introduction.

I still don’t understand “Frame”. But Ross was even more of an UBER ASSHOLE.

That's why I always thought - no matter if he did help Bobby in "Purgatory" - that Ross always had some grudge against Bobby. Bobby gave Ross ZERO reason to think he was a murderer.

But because he had the misfortune of having a bad sperm donor, Ross wrote him off. I was glad Alex was having none of his shit.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

All I remember was reading Noth was leaving. And in one article he was quoted as saying that he had squeezed out as much as possible from the character of Mike Logan. I don’t know if he and Wolf had another fallout or what.

What pissed me off was that somehow, the Queens ADA had any kind of power over Major Case when it was under Manhattan County-meaning JACK was who they answered to. As has been shown in previous seasons on the mothership and on this show. I loathed Driver so much. And that Ross proved he didn’t have his detectives’ back, but sucking up to the politicians. DEAKINS had the backs of his cops and supported them.

There was only one season, but based on what I saw, I think Joseph Hannah was more of a Deakins type than a Ross type. He made it clear to Bobby he had his back, but that Bobby had better go to therapy.

Of course, their past friendship [as mentioned in the character write up way back when] is probably a large component there, too.

[Xeliou66]

A few thoughts - I didn’t think Logan’s exit on CI was as bad as some people do, but it was underwhelming. I wish he could’ve gotten a better, more dramatic send-off with more closure, but I bought that he was fed up with dealing with bureaucratic shit and decided to do something else with his life.

Ross was just a grade A douche. And Frame was just terrible, a bad, unsatisfying ending to a really tiresome storyline of Nicole. I hated what they did to Rodgers in Frame, and I completely understood why Goren went apeshit on her, Rodgers should never have given Goren’s personal info to Ross even if Ross pressured her on it.

And yeah I did like Joe Hannah a lot in season 10, he was a good squad leader who was more like Deakins than Ross, and it was notable how Goren was on a first name basis with him, he never called the other captains by their first names. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I didn’t think Logan’s exit on CI was as bad as some people do, but it was underwhelming. I wish he could’ve gotten a better, more dramatic send-off with more closure, but I bought that he was fed up with dealing with bureaucratic shit and decided to do something else with his life.

Mike burned his bridges and just didn’t give a shit anymore, and wanted to bring that TWAT, Driver, with him. 
 

I hate that Cragen didn’t call to tell him there was someone who still had his back. Jack? Please. Or maybe by this time, seeing the crimes Driver had committed-would remind him of Diane Hawthorne, and he would have had Mike’s back. 

[peacheslatour]

29 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

A few thoughts - I didn’t think Logan’s exit on CI was as bad as some people do, but it was underwhelming. I wish he could’ve gotten a better, more dramatic send-off with more closure, but I bought that he was fed up with dealing with bureaucratic shit and decided to do something else with his life.

Ross was just a grade A douche. And Frame was just terrible, a bad, unsatisfying ending to a really tiresome storyline of Nicole. I hated what they did to Rodgers in Frame, and I completely understood why Goren went apeshit on her, Rodgers should never have given Goren’s personal info to Ross even if Ross pressured her on it.

And yeah I did like Joe Hannah a lot in season 10, he was a good squad leader who was more like Deakins than Ross, and it was notable how Goren was on a first name basis with him, he never called the other captains by their first names. 

And as bad as they were with ending main characters runs, the way they dispatched Nicole Wallace was a real insult to the viewers What lazy, uncommitted writing.

[Xeliou66]

19 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Mike burned his bridges and just didn’t give a shit anymore, and wanted to bring that TWAT, Driver, with him. 
 

I hate that Cragen didn’t call to tell him there was someone who still had his back. Jack? Please. Or maybe by this time, seeing the crimes Driver had committed-would remind him of Diane Hawthorne, and he would have had Mike’s back. 

CI was just off on it’s own during this period, seemed very separate from the rest of the franchise. I would’ve LOVED a scene between Cragen/Logan, or for Jack to get involved, although I’m not sure how much Jack could do since Driver was in another jurisdiction.

13 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

And as bad as they were with ending main characters runs, the way they dispatched Nicole Wallace was a real insult to the viewers What lazy, uncommitted writing.

Absolutely, it was a total insult to the viewers how, after dragging the Nicole storyline on for years in stupid ways, they had her whacked offscreen by another villain. So disappointing.

[peacheslatour]

16 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

CI was just off on it’s own during this period, seemed very separate from the rest of the franchise. I would’ve LOVED a scene between Cragen/Logan, or for Jack to get involved, although I’m not sure how much Jack could do since Driver was in another jurisdiction.

Absolutely, it was a total insult to the viewers how, after dragging the Nicole storyline on for years in stupid ways, they had her whacked offscreen by another villain. So disappointing.

Damn right. We had every reason to expect a sensational demise for the Nemesis and we got jack and shit.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

CI was just off on it’s own during this period, seemed very separate from the rest of the franchise. I would’ve LOVED a scene between Cragen/Logan, or for Jack to get involved, although I’m not sure how much Jack could do since Driver was in another jurisdiction.

Well, Olivet did interact with Logan in S5, but overall, I agree. Still TPTB seemed to like characterizing both Bobby and Mike as unruly head cases (never mind their great records in solving cases!), so that seemed to drive the narrative, for better or worse.

As for Nicole Wallace, while I also hated the way she ended up off the show, I wasn't sorry she was gone. But, yeah, I'd rather have had Goren and/or Eames finish that psycho off.

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, Olivet did interact with Logan in S5, but overall, I agree. Still TPTB seemed to like characterizing both Bobby and Mike as unruly head cases (never mind their great records in solving cases!), so that seemed to drive the narrative, for better or worse.

As for Nicole Wallace, while I also hated the way she ended up off the show, I wasn't sorry she was gone. But, yeah, I'd rather have had Goren and/or Eames finish that psycho off.

And I hated how the writers characterized Goren/Logan that way, both Goren and Logan were great detectives and yet the higher ups treated them as though they were a problem for the department, this started in season 6 when the showrunners changed and the show became a lot more soapy. 

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And I hated how the writers characterized Goren/Logan that way, both Goren and Logan were great detectives and yet the higher ups treated them as though they were a problem for the department, this started in season 6 when the showrunners changed and the show became a lot more soapy. 

Which is why I'd like to think of Season 10 as Goren's middle finger to the brass. They fired him, yet he prevailed. (I'd like to think he sued and/or Eames and her family [as it was inferred her dad knew Bobby/already liked him] knew people and also helped out in reinstating Goren and Eames, etc.)

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Which is why I'd like to think of Season 10 as Goren's middle finger to the brass. They fired him, yet he prevailed. (I'd like to think he sued and/or Eames and her family [as it was inferred her dad knew Bobby/already liked him] knew people and also helped out in reinstating Goren and Eames, etc.)

As I’ve said before, I think Joe Hannah probably played a role in getting Goren back to Major Case, since he knew him for a long time. I would’ve liked more explanation of how Goren came back and Eames too for that matter, but I’m glad we got a season 10 to send the show off on a high note.