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Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion


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1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I liked all 8 episodes of season 10 and I’m glad the show went out on a high note, they finally found the classic CI formula, Goren was rejuvenated and Joe Hannah was a good squad leader, I wish we had seen more of him and known more about his relationship with Goren. 

When watching S10, which I should have picked up long before I did, considering how many times I have seen these (and yet, am still not bored...weird!), Goren tells Joe Hannah at one point in "The Consoler", "Joe don't be a moron, we have viable suspects!"

Right there, even though it may not be professional, it speaks to Goren and Hannah's past history as Academy friends, since Goren calling Deakins or Ross a moron would never have flown.

Amazing that I just caught that now, though.

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39 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

When watching S10, which I should have picked up long before I did, considering how many times I have seen these (and yet, am still not bored...weird!), Goren tells Joe Hannah at one point in "The Consoler", "Joe don't be a moron, we have viable suspects!"

Right there, even though it may not be professional, it speaks to Goren and Hannah's past history as Academy friends, since Goren calling Deakins or Ross a moron would never have flown.

Amazing that I just caught that now, though.

I’m surprised you never noticed that, I thought it was very noteworthy how Goren called Hannah “Joe” given that he never called Deakins or Ross by their first names, and first names were rarely used on this show anyway. Hannah also called Goren “Bobby” something which was rarely done by Deakins and never by Ross. So that showed that Goren and Hannah knew each other for a long time. I wish Hannah had gotten more focus, but they only had 8 episodes, I wish 10 had been a full season and maybe we would’ve gotten a Hannah centric episode.

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39 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I wish Hannah had gotten more focus, but they only had 8 episodes, I wish 10 had been a full season and maybe we would’ve gotten a Hannah centric episode.

To think, on the screener version of "The Consoler" (which was meant as the S10 premiere before Charlie Sheen's meltdown brought about "Rispetto"), Jay O. Sanders actually had a credit with picture (a la Jamey Sheridan, Eric Bogosian, and Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio before him), but when S10 actually came about, his credit was reduced to "Also starring..." with other guest stars.

Also on the screener, as mentioned before, the final scene in the opening credits (when the cast walks together), it was the old shot with Eric Bogosian/VDO/KE with a caption of "Re-shoot with J. Sanders" above it.

And, obviously, that never happened, either, since the ending shot for S10 was only VDO/KE (looking very smiley!).

So, while it sucks for Sanders, it seemed like his role was meant to be bigger than it ended up being. Probably because the season only ended up being 8 episodes. (Can't recall if he had signed on before or after the episode count for the upcoming season was known.) Would have been good to flesh Joe Hannah out more, but I did like the little of him we had, as I said. He had a droll/dry sense of humor that meshed well with Goren and Eames' own dry brand of humor.

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Watching "Semi-Professional" from S1 on WE, and I still cracked up at the scene where Carver asks Eames if Goren's investigative methods are always so sociable, and she's all "Yeah, sure." as Goren keeps playing with the lid of the trash bin.

On another note, the Sundance schedule is just weird. The Tuesday batch of episodes on the 14th end with "Rocket Man" from S6. And then the episodes move to Mondays and the episodes on the 20th for the following week circle back and begin with S1, again, starting with "One".

Like I said, very weird.

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I saw Badge last night, and while I love the episode, I really disliked how they did Van Buren in her crossover cameo, she was OOC and it didn’t make her look good at all - Van Buren spoke highly of sociopathic murderer Randolph and didn’t seem to have an issue with Randolph beating up drug dealers, something we know Van Buren would never tolerate as she never let her detectives get physical with suspects and she removed them from the interrogation room several times when things did escalate. So it was very weird hearing Van Buren apparently approve of Randolph roughing people up. So while I liked that they did a crossover, I found Van Buren to be highly OOC, very disappointing.

Other than that it’s a great episode, I love how Goren got under Randolph’s skin and they trapped her. I would like to know who Randolph’s accomplices were as I don’t think she could’ve carried out the Sherwood family murders and covered it up/cleaned up the crime scene all by herself. I wish they had had a final scene wrapping all that up. But it was a really good case and investigation with some great Goren scenes. I just wish they had done Van Buren’s appearance better.

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12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Other than that it’s a great episode, I love how Goren got under Randolph’s skin and they trapped her. I would like to know who Randolph’s accomplices were as I don’t think she could’ve carried out the Sherwood family murders and covered it up/cleaned up the crime scene all by herself. I wish they had had a final scene wrapping all that up. But it was a really good case and investigation with some great Goren scenes. I just wish they had done Van Buren’s appearance better.

Well, the cop that offed himself at 1PP had to be one; the other (ex-?) cop G/E interviewed (with the lobster in his grocery bag) that caused Alex to talk about her father double dipping was likely another. Not sure if the Asian-American woman Randolph spoke with was another accomplice, but she kept Randolph apprised of the investigation, so she was also involved.

I know I mentioned this, but I loved that Bobby exaggerated his Brooklyn accent and played himself as basically a jerk, if just to rile Randolph.

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11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, the cop that offed himself at 1PP had to be one; the other (ex-?) cop G/E interviewed (with the lobster in his grocery bag) that caused Alex to talk about her father double dipping was likely another. Not sure if the Asian-American woman Randolph spoke with was another accomplice, but she kept Randolph apprised of the investigation, so she was also involved.

I know I mentioned this, but I loved that Bobby exaggerated his Brooklyn accent and played himself as basically a jerk, if just to rile Randolph.

Wasn’t the cop that shot himself the same guy that Goren/Eames talked to who had the grocery bag and told them to get off his property? I thought it was. Speaking of the guy shooting himself, I really liked how calm Deakins was with the officer who’s gun was grabbed, he didn’t berate him instead calmly telling him to wait outside.

And yeah I loved how Goren got under Randolph’s skin throughout the episode, he was awesome. I love the episode, it just really bugged me how Van Buren was.

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And yeah I loved how Goren got under Randolph’s skin throughout the episode, he was awesome. I love the episode, it just really bugged me how Van Buren was.

One of the funnest things about watching VDO is that he is such a good actor,  I think he got bored with some of the writing so to distract himself and keep it fresh, he did ad libs, accents and play acted whatever took his fancy at the time.

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6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Wasn’t the cop that shot himself the same guy that Goren/Eames talked to who had the grocery bag and told them to get off his property? I thought it was. Speaking of the guy shooting himself, I really liked how calm Deakins was with the officer who’s gun was grabbed, he didn’t berate him instead calmly telling him to wait outside.

And yeah I loved how Goren got under Randolph’s skin throughout the episode, he was awesome. I love the episode, it just really bugged me how Van Buren was.

Thought it was a different cop, but if not, my bad. There were so many players in the department involved that maybe some blended for me.

As for Van Buren, I didn't see her approving of Randolph's MO, just explaining it to G/E. But I sort of hand wave it all in that Van Buren did not want to believe she could associate with someone so cold, so she kind of dissociated from everything...

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On 12/10/2021 at 9:16 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Thought it was a different cop, but if not, my bad. There were so many players in the department involved that maybe some blended for me.

As for Van Buren, I didn't see her approving of Randolph's MO, just explaining it to G/E. But I sort of hand wave it all in that Van Buren did not want to believe she could associate with someone so cold, so she kind of dissociated from everything...

It just didn’t reflect well on Van Buren to be defending a stone cold sociopath who murdered a family in cold blood. Usually Van Buren was much more objective, and it seemed like that she wouldn’t respect Randolph after knowing her MO of roughing up people, something which she would never tolerate from one of her own detectives. Van Buren just seemed off to me and it bugged me as someone who is a big Van Buren fan, she’s one of my favorites on the Mothership, I wish her appearance had been done better.

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2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It just didn’t reflect well on Van Buren to be defending a stone cold sociopath who murdered a family in cold blood. Usually Van Buren was much more objective, and it seemed like that she wouldn’t respect Randolph after knowing her MO of roughing up people, something which she would never tolerate from one of her own detectives. Van Buren just seemed off to me and it bugged me as someone who is a big Van Buren fan, she’s one of my favorites on the Mothership, I wish her appearance had been done better.

At least Green/Briscoe (especially wisecracking Lennie!) seemed to be more true to form with their cameo appearance, not to mention Branch's later on...

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12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

At least Green/Briscoe (especially wisecracking Lennie!) seemed to be more true to form with their cameo appearance, not to mention Branch's later on...

Oh yes the other crossover cameos were really well done - I loved the Briscoe/Green cameo in Poison, that was awesome seeing them assist Goren/Eames, and Branch was his usual colorful self in his cameo. Also Skoda was great when he appeared, and Nora’s cameo in the pilot was fine. Still really wish Jack had appeared on this show. But yeah all of the crossovers were well done aside from Van Buren’s.

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20 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Oh yes the other crossover cameos were really well done - I loved the Briscoe/Green cameo in Poison, that was awesome seeing them assist Goren/Eames, and Branch was his usual colorful self in his cameo. Also Skoda was great when he appeared, and Nora’s cameo in the pilot was fine. Still really wish Jack had appeared on this show. But yeah all of the crossovers were well done aside from Van Buren’s.

The perp in that one has been in like 10 L&O's, she's really fun to hate.

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7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

The perp in that one has been in like 10 L&O's, she's really fun to hate.

The perp in Poison? She’s been in 7 episodes across the L&O franchise, all as different characters. Trudy in Poison was a chilling villain, she cared about nothing but opening her store, she was pure evil. 

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2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The perp in Poison? She’s been in 7 episodes across the L&O franchise, all as different characters. Trudy in Poison was a chilling villain, she cared about nothing but opening her store, she was pure evil. 

J. Smith Cameron certainly played a sociopath quite effectively in "Poison". As I said before, it was a big reason why it seemed so disconcerting when she returned to CI in "Endgame" in S6 as an actual living victim of Mark Ford Brady's. I still remembered Trudy Pomeranski from S1 vividly!

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1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

The whole Chris Noth scandal is airing right now on NBC Nightly News. I hope this isn't true, but it doesn't sound good...

Yes the allegations are very disturbing. I hate that Noth may be a scumbag as I’ve always liked him as an actor and thought he was great as Logan. I’m able to separate the actors from the characters they play and still enjoy shows/movies with actors who I think are lousy people, but this is very disappointing. 

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Ironically, shit has also hit the fan with another actor that appeared on this show (in a guest-starring role): Jeff Garlin, who plays the father on The Goldbergs on ABC, has exited that show after an HR investigation into bad behavior on set.

You may remember him: He played the Harvey Weinstein-esque movie producer, Barry Freeberg, in "Contract", who killed Mo Rocca's gossip columnist character. Which was, ironically, a Logan/Wheeler episode [and Julianne Nicholson's first since her maternity leave].

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Yeah, a discussion in the Mothership forum brings up a similar question here. The show is in the midst of its early seasons in terms of rotation right now, but once Season 4 with "Stress Position" rolls around, I wonder if Sundance and/or WE will show Logan's era or skip or pull the show completely? (I hope not. One character should not ruin things, but then I think of The Cosby Show being pulled because of Bill Cosby and the 7th Heaven (which I never watched) ickfest with one of its stars there, and it makes me wonder...)

I do feel awful for the victims, all being said. If true, I hope they can somehow get justice and hope there is no statute of limitations or whatnot.

Why can't some actors not turn out to be nasty individuals?

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12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, a discussion in the Mothership forum brings up a similar question here. The show is in the midst of its early seasons in terms of rotation right now, but once Season 4 with "Stress Position" rolls around, I wonder if Sundance and/or WE will show Logan's era or skip or pull the show completely? (I hope not. One character should not ruin things, but then I think of The Cosby Show being pulled because of Bill Cosby and the 7th Heaven (which I never watched) ickfest with one of its stars there, and it makes me wonder...)

I do feel awful for the victims, all being said. If true, I hope they can somehow get justice and hope there is no statute of limitations or whatnot.

Why can't some actors not turn out to be nasty individuals?

I really hope they don’t pull the Logan episodes on either the Mothership or CI, there are so many good episodes with him and they shouldn’t be pulled just because he’s probably a scumbag in real life. I’m glad I have the DVDs but I usually watch the episodes on tv and I would really miss the Logan episodes.

I’m very disappointed with Noth, and it’s looking more and more like the allegations are probably true, and if so Noth belongs in a jail cell. Sickening stuff, and yeah I hate how many people in Hollywood turn out to be scum. But I can still separate actors from characters and enjoy a show/movie with an actor who I think is a bad person.

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On 12/20/2021 at 2:45 AM, WendyCR72 said:

I did watch Daredevil when it was on Netflix but really have not kept up with the superhero genre. But I read that VDO has appeared on the mini series, Hawkeye, on Disney+.

Yes, he has. To my delight. VDO's portrayal of Kingpin is one of my favorites of the onscreen Marvel villains. And this brings him back into the MCU, so he can appear in other things.

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I heard another great Eamsism today while watching The Third Horseman. They are questioning the murderer of an abortion doctor and the perp's lawyer goes "My client is invoking his right to silence." She deadpans "Yeah well he doesn't have the right to be deaf so I guess he'll have to listen to our questions."

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I love Alex Eames and her "give no fucks" attitude toward the usual lawyer speak. I remember, too, in "Malignant" in Season 2, when the lawyer blah blahs about her client having no knowledge and Alex sort of interrupts and says [paraphrasing as I cannot remember word for word], "And he was afraid for his life, blah, blah..."

G/E sort of tag-teamed each other when telling the lawyer about the evidence they had and how long he had to talk to strike a deal before his friend did. Loved that.

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I saw A Murderer Among Us tonight, that episode has one of the most chilling villains on CI in Lance Brody, he was so filled with rage and hate. Good episode, but I found it somewhat far-fetched in that Brody’s wife was able to stage her suicide to look like a murder so well, and I also thought that Goren was able to zero in on Brody being a killer quite easily.

Next up was Sound Bodies, another stellar episode with a memorable villain in Connie. One thing I noticed about this episode and found odd is how they called City Island “Channel Island” instead of using its actual name, the crimes clearly happened on City Island, they even mentioned Hart’s Island which is right across from City Island by name, but they used the made up “Channel Island”, that was interesting, maybe the people living on City Island objected to having the community having poisonings and drownings occur there. Whatever reason, it was very odd. But it’s a great episode with a compelling investigation and a memorable villain.

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Yeah, "A Murderer Among Us" was just chilling. The actor playing Lance Brody certainly sold the hatred and bigotry. As did the actress playing his sister. (Makes me wonder how she would react to finding out her brother was a serial killer of Jewish men and that her own niece is Jewish, etc.)

And the way Lance screamed, "CLAAAAAAIIIIIIIRRRRRRREEEEEEE!!!" as he was being led away made MY throat hurt.

And yeah, I think the deal with City Island was a lack of clearance, hence the workaround.

By the way, the actor playing Lance Brody also appeared in "Jones" in Season 1 as Henry Talbot's bookie, who called him to "settle up" (at G/E's urging), causing his wife to appear instead and get arrested. (His hair was a lot darker in S1; all gray just two seasons later!)

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1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, "A Murderer Among Us" was just chilling. The actor playing Lance Brody certainly sold the hatred and bigotry. As did the actress playing his sister. (Makes me wonder how she would react to finding out her brother was a serial killer of Jewish men and that her own niece is Jewish, etc.)

And the way Lance screamed, "CLAAAAAAIIIIIIIRRRRRRREEEEEEE!!!" as he was being led away made MY throat hurt.

And yeah, I think the deal with City Island was a lack of clearance, hence the workaround.

By the way, the actor playing Lance Brody also appeared in "Jones" in Season 1 as Henry Talbot's bookie, who called him to "settle up" (at G/E's urging), causing his wife to appear instead and get arrested. (His hair was a lot darker in S1; all gray just two seasons later!)

Oh yeah Brody’s sister was a bigoted witch as well, she was quite nasty. I felt very bad for the daughter, to lose her mom then find out her dad is a serial killer/hate murderer.

And yeah the City Island/Channel Island thing was funny to me, because they rarely used made up locations on L&O and it was so obviously City Island, very strange. But Sound Bodies is a great episode.

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1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Oh good god those witches were the worst. I think the perp in that episode may have had the most dysfunctional family in the shows history, and that’s saying something.

"He's a boy. He could take it!"

And the fact that Doris was still laughing about it, so matter of fact, telling G/E to tell Spencer hi for her. Talk about fucked up in the head.

On another tragic real-life note, apparently Alicia Witt's (Nola Falacci) parents in Massachusetts were both found dead during a wellness check as she hadn't heard from them for a while. From what I read, there was no sign of foul play or trauma. (If I were to elicit a guess, and that is ALL this is, maybe something like carbon monoxide poisoning, which is odorless, etc.)

How awful to happen at any time, but to happen during the holidays must be excruciating for her. 😥

ETA: After fully reading the People article, I guess the parents had furnace issues but cops said they found no evidence of carbon monoxide. So I guess my theory was wrong. Either way, what a tragedy.

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Mad Hops was on tonight, this is one of my favorite season 3 episodes, such a good, in depth case and investigation but unlike some other episodes I never got lost and everything made sense, I liked how they tied Powell to both murders and pieced everything together. I liked seeing Goren’s knowledge of basketball, and I liked how he confronted Powell at the end. Powell was despicable, he killed two people all because he was desperate to win over the player’s mother, and speaking of Karen Watkins I didn’t find her sympathetic at all, she was stringing Powell along just to help her son out.

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14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Mad Hops was on tonight, this is one of my favorite season 3 episodes, such a good, in depth case and investigation but unlike some other episodes I never got lost and everything made sense, I liked how they tied Powell to both murders and pieced everything together. I liked seeing Goren’s knowledge of basketball, and I liked how he confronted Powell at the end. Powell was despicable, he killed two people all because he was desperate to win over the player’s mother, and speaking of Karen Watkins I didn’t find her sympathetic at all, she was stringing Powell along just to help her son out.

Karen Watkins was just another Sarah Lindstrom (the one leading the murderous Dr. Webb on in "Crazy"!). She obviously didn't have the strongest of feelings for Powell, but she liked what his money could do for her kid.

I'm guessing we were supposed to feel sorry for her, but I never did.

And while I was always happy to see the return of Eames in "Unrequited" right after, it's weird how the franchise never seemed to give the temp partners any exit scenes. Didn't for Bishop and didn't for Falacci. Just poof! Gone.

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1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Karen Watkins was just another Sarah Lindstrom (the one leading the murderous Dr. Webb on in "Crazy"!). She obviously didn't have the strongest of feelings for Powell, but she liked what his money could do for her kid.

I'm guessing we were supposed to feel sorry for her, but I never did.

And while I was always happy to see the return of Eames in "Unrequited" right after, it's weird how the franchise never seemed to give the temp partners any exit scenes. Didn't for Bishop and didn't for Falacci. Just poof! Gone.

Good comparison between Karen Watkins and Sarah Lindstrom. I still don’t get why Sarah Lindstrom was stringing on Dr Webb, I don’t see what she got out of the relationship with him. I didn’t like either woman though, they were both unsympathetic. 

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So, I'm watching "Pas De Deux" on WE with dumb Margie, the stupidest chemistry teacher on earth. And this time, when G/E interview folks - like the flooring guy (when G/E posed as a couple shopping for flooring in the kids' room...) and dance teacher just before Bobby meets drippy Margie - this time, I distinctly heard "Johnny" versus "Donnie", i.e. Charles Rocket's thief/murdering character.

And here I always thought it was the latter name - for the last 18 years or so. And IMDB lists the character as Johnny DePalma. Huh. Who knew?!

ETA: Yet VDO/Goren calls him Donnie to Margie in the interrogation room. LOL! And so did KE/Eames, "Dancing Donnie". Ah, well.

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Per listings, I see "The Saint" (with Stephen Colbert!) and "Conscience" are airing on WE late night/early morning. Always wondered if Colbert gets any royalties from the episode. Probably not (not that he needs it!), but it does make me wonder...

Happy New Year to any and all posters and lurkers here!

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7 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Per listings, I see "The Saint" (with Stephen Colbert!) and "Conscience" are airing on WE late night/early morning. Always wondered if Colbert gets any royalties from the episode. Probably not (not that he needs it!), but it does make me wonder...

Happy New Year to any and all posters and lurkers here!

Same to you!

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15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"D.A.W." with Kevin Tighe as the creepy druggie doctor just started on WE. How his girlfriend's skin didn't crawl is beyond me. He was creepy.

But on a very shallow note, I think it is the only time we saw Bobby/VDO wearing a leather jacket.

Lingard was beyond creepy, the whole way he acted was just strange, remember how he said to the patient’s husband he was having dinner with “you should’ve seen her when she was 24” or something like that. It is a good episode, although at the end I wondered if they had enough evidence to arrest Lingard, didn’t he ask for his lawyer a few minutes before he blurted out his confession, and that might make his statements inadmissible. 

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7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Lingard was beyond creepy, the whole way he acted was just strange, remember how he said to the patient’s husband he was having dinner with “you should’ve seen her when she was 24”

Yeah, that line was disgusting. I never saw Kevin Tighe in his good-guy role on Emergency since it literally began the year I was born, and I do not recall ever seeing it in syndication.

But he played creepy so well that I'm not sure I'd buy the hero-ish turn even if I ever did see the show! (And that is a compliment, since Lingard was so skeevy. Tighe seemed to delight in playing up the sleazy drug addict.)

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