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Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion


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11 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

LOL. I'm sorry, I'm one woman who doesn't get the shoe thing. I have eight pairs of shoes, two which I never wear, one pair that doesn't fit, two for wearing only in the yard. This leaves the two pair of black Reebox I wear during the week and my snow boots.

And God, I hate buying shoes. That's like Living Hell.

I'm like Bobby. Books. I want books. (Okay. And pens and stickers for my journal.)

I’m not a shoe fetishist either. I just think that if Eames risked ordering them from her work account, they had to be truly fabulous.

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On another note, I see "Stress Position" (Logan's return to the franchise) and "Sex Club" are airing on WE late night. Tomorrow, WE has around a 3-hour block before Criminal Minds, and the first one is our favorite psycho chef, Tommy Onorato, in "Death Roe".

Speaking of which, I said upthread that death by chainsaw has not been seen too often, but then, neither has a meat grinder used to grind up one's son-in-law! (Talk about sick and dark. Eeewww.)

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16 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

On another note, I see "Stress Position" (Logan's return to the franchise) and "Sex Club" are airing on WE late night. Tomorrow, WE has around a 3-hour block before Criminal Minds, and the first one is our favorite psycho chef, Tommy Onorato, in "Death Roe".

Speaking of which, I said upthread that death by chainsaw has not been seen too often, but then, neither has a meat grinder used to grind up one's son-in-law! (Talk about sick and dark. Eeewww.)

Yep, Death Roe is as dark as it gets pretty much - Tommy has to be one of the most evil villains CI ever had, brutally murdering 2 people all so his daughter wouldn’t get pregnant and he could keep raping her, what a sicko. Great episode and certainly unforgettable, too bad I missed it today, it’s one that I try to catch when it comes on.

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I also see by the listings that S6 will be on WE again before long, and "Masquerade" is listed. Saw Liza Minelli on The Oscars with Lady Gaga in a wheelchair, and she looked to be in fragile health.

What a difference 15 or so years (from that episode) makes, but I guess we'll all age.

That episode was another kind of sick one, too, what with the pedophile loon, and the father that made his own son think he killed Amberleigh.

Then again, at least the fictional Jonbenet Ramsey take got a definite resolution...

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Weird scheduling (to me) for WE and its late-night block tonight. Usually, it will sometimes show some episodes out of order if connected episodes are to be shown, i.e. "Wee Small Hours", but the block tomorrow has "Acts of Contrition" with only part 1 of "Wee..." after.

Doesn't bother me too much as I have seen it enough, but this is why I disliked syndication breaking the mega episode into two. (I see part 2 is during tomorrow's mini marathon, which I'll likely miss. Oh, well.)

But, as also discussed before, "Acts of Contrition" does remind me yet again just how much CI seemed to love its church-themed episodes ("The Faithful", "Acts of Contrition", "Faithfully", "Last Rites", "The Consoler") throughout its run.

And kind of funny how actress Susan Misner appeared in two with religious themes, even if one was not strictly a church episode (but more about warped faith, i.e. "Family Values", as the doomed wife who gets offed by her hubby, and as Sister Olivia in "Acts of Contrition". For the record, Misner was also Becky the hooker in "Smothered" in S1, too.).

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I watched Vacancy last night and that’s an episode where I love the first half of it but the second half just fizzled. The cold open was very creepy and well done, the setting of the dingy motel was effective, and the investigation into who did it and zeroing in on the cab driver was good - but then the episode just fizzled and became rather dull, and I didn’t really buy the cab driver’s motive, it seemed like something was missing there, I mean the guy was just a disturbed sicko but I didn’t really get what he accomplished by killing the victim. Something about it just didn’t work or needed more explanation. 

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4 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Vacancy last night and that’s an episode where I love the first half of it but the second half just fizzled. The cold open was very creepy and well done, the setting of the dingy motel was effective, and the investigation into who did it and zeroing in on the cab driver was good - but then the episode just fizzled and became rather dull, and I didn’t really buy the cab driver’s motive, it seemed like something was missing there, I mean the guy was just a disturbed sicko but I didn’t really get what he accomplished by killing the victim. Something about it just didn’t work or needed more explanation. 

Is that the one where he didn't know his mother had been running from her crazy ex?

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

Is that the one where he didn't know his mother had been running from her crazy ex?

Yes was looking into what happened to his mother who had been murdered back when he was a kid. Something about his motives just didn’t add up IMO, and I was left unsure of why he did it, or why he confessed so easily. 

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1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes was looking into what happened to his mother who had been murdered back when he was a kid. Something about his motives just didn’t add up IMO, and I was left unsure of why he did it, or why he confessed so easily. 

Yeah, that was not one of their better ones. Plus, his mother pulled him out of Star Wars! The horror.

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5 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Yeah, that was not one of their better ones. Plus, his mother pulled him out of Star Wars! The horror.

Yep not a strong episode, which is too bad given how much potential it had at the start.

This maybe a controversial opinion but I think Logan/Barek had stronger episodes in season 5 than Goren/Eames - while I like season 5 a lot, I feel like the Logan/Barek episodes were stronger, almost every one of them was good, while the Goren/Eames episodes were shakier - we just talked about Vacancy, they had 2 episodes (Grow and Slither) ruined by the Nicole crap, and Proud Flesh, what the fuck was that? I still can’t make any sense of that episode and I’ve seen it several times. The Logan/Barek episodes just seemed stronger overall.

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3 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yep not a strong episode, which is too bad given how much potential it had at the start.

This maybe a controversial opinion but I think Logan/Barek had stronger episodes in season 5 than Goren/Eames - while I like season 5 a lot, I feel like the Logan/Barek episodes were stronger, almost every one of them was good, while the Goren/Eames episodes were shakier - we just talked about Vacancy, they had 2 episodes (Grow and Slither) ruined by the Nicole crap, and Proud Flesh, what the fuck was that? I still can’t make any sense of that episode and I’ve seen it several times. The Logan/Barek episodes just seemed stronger overall.

The Logan/Barek episodes were more straightforward police procedurals  whereas the Goren/Eames collaborations tended to delve more into the psyche. The episodes you mention did not work. I don't know if the writing was lazy or just plain sloppy.

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1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

The Logan/Barek episodes were more straightforward police procedurals  whereas the Goren/Eames collaborations tended to delve more into the psyche. The episodes you mention did not work. I don't know if the writing was lazy or just plain sloppy.

Show tried to make Barek the female version of Bobby, what with her talking to herself and muttering during their cases. And the throwaway lines how she knew such and such, and blah, blah. It came off more like bragging than Bobby's "I know a guy..." or "I have a friend who's..." which was so much more natural. Before the asshole who shall not be named fucking tried to destroy Bobby. I think Show also wanted to establish Mike in this universe, because he was more familiar as Detective Mike Logan from the two-seven on the Mothership.

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I watched Shrink-Wrapped again today.  OMG this one just burns me up.  I can't stand how Camilla's parents treated her!  Who the flip throws a birthday party for their daughter and doesn't even bother to show up?!  Grrr 😡  I'm glad Goren mentioned that in front of them.  Such selfish, disgusting people

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53 minutes ago, Dirtybubble said:

I watched Shrink-Wrapped again today.  OMG this one just burns me up.  I can't stand how Camilla's parents treated her!  Who the flip throws a birthday party for their daughter and doesn't even bother to show up?!  Grrr 😡  I'm glad Goren mentioned that in front of them.  Such selfish, disgusting people

And then when they took her away in cuffs, her parents didn't even go with her. 😥

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3 hours ago, Dirtybubble said:

I watched Shrink-Wrapped again today.  OMG this one just burns me up.  I can't stand how Camilla's parents treated her!  Who the flip throws a birthday party for their daughter and doesn't even bother to show up?!  Grrr 😡  I'm glad Goren mentioned that in front of them.  Such selfish, disgusting people

Those parents were some of the worst, most fucked up parents on the show, and to think they were treating patients is disgusting, I hope they both lost their licenses after the events of the episode. I guarantee they fucked up many of their patients - they were complete loony tunes.

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3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

And then when they took her away in cuffs, her parents didn't even go with her. 😥

IKR?!

52 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Those parents were some of the worst, most fucked up parents on the show, and to think they were treating patients is disgusting, I hope they both lost their licenses after the events of the episode. I guarantee they fucked up many of their patients - they were complete loony tunes.

IKR?!

My blood boils every time I watch that episode 😄 But it does go to show how well the episode was written and what good actors they are.

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13 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Vacancy last night and that’s an episode where I love the first half of it but the second half just fizzled. The cold open was very creepy and well done, the setting of the dingy motel was effective, and the investigation into who did it and zeroing in on the cab driver was good - but then the episode just fizzled and became rather dull, and I didn’t really buy the cab driver’s motive, it seemed like something was missing there, I mean the guy was just a disturbed sicko but I didn’t really get what he accomplished by killing the victim. Something about it just didn’t work or needed more explanation. 

The guy killing the victim, Megan, was spurred on by his acting gig that fell through (as he was a method actor) as his preparation for a role brought up old memories as a child when his mother was being stalked (which - as he said - he didn't know until Goren told him!). That anger manifested itself into the guy stalking Megan himself and taking his rage at his mother (for their constant moving, etc.) out on Megan.

I liked the episode, and I even liked that Eames was shown to have prejudices (i.e. not perfect) with regard to drunks and her disdain for Alice at the beginning...

I do agree that the beginning of the episode was very creepy.

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4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Those parents were some of the worst, most fucked up parents on the show, and to think they were treating patients is disgusting, I hope they both lost their licenses after the events of the episode. I guarantee they fucked up many of their patients - they were complete loony tunes.

Alex was definitely correct when she quipped to Deakins (in response to his saying the toxic couple needed therapy), "These two would eat a marriage counselor for lunch!"

Between the hubby pissing on her desk (!) and wifey telling Camilla about her extramarital affairs and being proud of it and then shading her own daughter for competing against her, is it any wonder that Camilla was as fucked up as she was?!

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10 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

The guy killing the victim, Megan, was spurred on by his acting gig that fell through (as he was a method actor) as his preparation for a role brought up old memories as a child when his mother was being stalked (which - as he said - he didn't know until Goren told him!). That anger manifested itself into the guy stalking Megan himself and taking his rage at his mother (for their constant moving, etc.) out on Megan.

I liked the episode, and I even liked that Eames was shown to have prejudices (i.e. notp erfect) with regard to drunks and her disdain for Alice at the beginning...

I do agree that the beginning of the episode was very creepy.

Yeah I hadn’t thought about his rage at his mom being taken out on Megan when he killed her, but something about his motives just seemed off, it seemed odd that he would just kill a random person who got in his cab one night that he barely interacted with. The beginning of the episode was awesome and really creepy, one of CI’s best cold opens, and the investigation into who the killer was was strong as well, but once they identified him the episode just fizzled, I wish it had had a stronger ending.

14 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Alex was definitely correct when she quipped to Deakins (in response to his saying the toxic couple needed therapy), "These two would eat a marriage counselor for lunch!"

Between the hubby pissing on her desk (!) and wifey telling Camilla about her extramarital affairs and being proud of it and then shading her own daughter for competing against her, is it any wonder that Camilla was as fucked up as she was?!

Yeah no kidding, the Barnes’ were loony tunes, I have no idea why they stayed married other than they enjoyed trying to one up each other and argue nonstop, while completely ignoring their daughter. I wonder if Camilla would go for a psych defense given how screwed up she was from her upbringing - I would’ve liked to have seen Skoda/Olivet in that episode to give some insight, one of many times CI could’ve used a psych expert.

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Watching "Cruise To Nowhere" on WE now, and I love Alex's line after they first encounter Joey, after he bitches about losing $50,000 and that being the real tragedy:

"There goes one of nature's mistakes!"

Of course, Joey Frost later inexplicably becomes Josh Snow in S8, as we discussed. Still wish we knew the story there...

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Just saw the Olivet/Logan scene in "To The Bone", airing on WE now. And it occurred to me how it was sort of a nice parallel to another Logan/Olivet counseling scene after Greevey was killed on the Mothership.

Except the second time, Logan had to accept he killed someone, while he had to accept the murder of Greevey the first time.

Good use of history.

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13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just saw the Olivet/Logan scene in "To The Bone", airing on WE now. And it occurred to me how it was sort of a nice parallel to another Logan/Olivet counseling scene after Greevey was killed on the Mothership.

Except the second time, Logan had to accept he killed someone, while he had to accept the murder of Greevey the first time.

Good use of history.

Yeah I loved the Logan/Olivet scene in To The Bone, it was very good continuity and nice to see Olivet make an appearance on CI. The rest of To The Bone wasn’t that great though, and the ending was very unsatisfying with how it was unclear if they could get the murderers or not, and it set up Deakins disappointing exit.

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2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I loved the Logan/Olivet scene in To The Bone, it was very good continuity and nice to see Olivet make an appearance on CI. The rest of To The Bone wasn’t that great though, and the ending was very unsatisfying with how it was unclear if they could get the murderers or not, and it set up Deakins disappointing exit.

Yeah, as said pages back, with the death of their witness, I'm afraid Chesley Watkins and her "boys" walked. But as there is no statute of limitations on murder, I'd love to believe they all got what they deserved somehow, some way.

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I watched Weeping Willow last night, and that’s another episode I can’t make much sense out of - who was the real villain of it all? I get it was all a hoax but who ultimately masterminded it and who was the ultimate criminal? What a strange episode.

Next up was World’s Fair, probably the best episode of season 6, good tension in it with a load of unlikable and memorable people, it felt a lot like the classic CI episodes of seasons 1-5 and I liked seeing the fiery, passionate side of Logan in it.

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8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Weeping Willow last night, and that’s another episode I can’t make much sense out of - who was the real villain of it all? I get it was all a hoax but who ultimately masterminded it and who was the ultimate criminal? What a strange episode.

I think Willow and all the guys involved thought it up, and then the whole thing went sideways. But I could be wrong. We do know Willow was a straight-up con artist.

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Next up was World’s Fair, probably the best episode of season 6, good tension in it with a load of unlikable and memorable people, it felt a lot like the classic CI episodes of seasons 1-5 and I liked seeing the fiery, passionate side of Logan in it.

And as I have stated multiple times, the only likable people appeared to be the victims. And Meera's brother/the murderer was straight-up creepy at the end. I can't imagine the family getting any sort of happy ending. Their daughter and grandchild were dead at their own son's hand (although I am aware of honor killing and know that may have played a role...), and if I gleaned the scene right, it was the mother that told the truth about her son to save her husband from prison.

And I don't know if the husband would have appreciated it since he was willing to take the fall.

Quite the depressing, if well told, episode.

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The best line in “World’s Fair” comes from Mike to to that asshat, Tariq, when Tariq says Meeta wasn’t pure and Mike discovers he had gone to a strip club:

”Was it a pure one?”

Me:😆😆😆😆😆

And irony big ironies, the actor who played Meera’s brother, was the same who played that kid who was tortured by the cops in “Stress Positions” where we saw the Return of Detective Mike Logan, who decided to try Major Case’s “Major coffee.”

Me:😆😆😆😂😂😂

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3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And irony big ironies, the actor who played Meera’s brother, was the same who played that kid who was tortured by the cops in “Stress Positions” where we saw the Return of Detective Mike Logan, who decided to try Major Case’s “Major coffee.”

Wow, I didn't know that was the same actor. Probably should have, though, considering the franchise's history of recycling actors!

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On 4/26/2022 at 10:52 PM, WendyCR72 said:

And I don't know if the husband would have appreciated it since he was willing to take the fall.

Honestly I think he knew it was the son all along and his “accidental” shooting of the boyfriend was just to help cover it up. He was way too quick to “confess” to his daughter’s murder so he had to have known.

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1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Honestly I think he knew it was the son all along and his “accidental” shooting of the boyfriend was just to help cover it up. He was way too quick to “confess” to his daughter’s murder so he had to have known.

I don't think Dad knew Dani had killed Meera. Everything was ratched up in that store. He shot him, thinking that Rudy did kill Meera. When he realized that Rudy didn't do it, but Dani did, he quickly confessed to protect Dani.

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't think Dad knew Dani had killed Meera. Everything was ratched up in that store. He shot him, thinking that Rudy did kill Meera. When he realized that Rudy didn't do it, but Dani did, he quickly confessed to protect Dani.

I don’t know. His “What have I done” seemed so wooden, and the way he jumped right into the lie without any subtle reaction upon realizing that Dani was the killer makes me think that maybe, deep down, he knew all along. Of course that could have been rushed staging on the show’s part 🤷‍♀️

In any case I still didn’t feel sorry for him. I know how cold that sounds, but the only ones I felt sorry for were Rudy and Meera and Meera’s mom. I will, however, grant Rudy’s bigot mom the right to hate Dani and the dad because they both killed Rudy; I wouldn’t blame her for not forgiving the dad just because he was tricked. 

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9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Apparently, SVU had a Major Case detective on its last episode (no one we knew) who tangled with Olivia. At least TPTB remembers Major Case in the grand scheme...

Are they forgetting when Alex appeared that one time? Of course they are if they’re now making up someone who “tangled” with Olivia.🙄🤬😒

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WE aired "Amends" earlier tonight/this morning. It's still so great to see Kathryn Erbe/Alex Eames get her moment in the sun. The scene in the car/SUV as she described how all the police/colleagues she saw again at her husband's partner's wake sort of drifted away after Joe died, and how there was no longer a place for her was well done.

And, of course, I loved Bobby using his "whackjob" reputation complete with crazy faces to help Alex find the lost evidence in Joe's murder.

(And, as I pointed out before, I think that scene in the car/SUV was one of the very few times that we see Bobby driving instead of Alex.)

I liked that Alex seemed to appreciate Bobby's support overall. Yes, they clashed, but the scene where she tells Ross her partner didn't adapt well to change (when Ross wanted to pull her from the case) told me that she brought him up for her own sake, too. I think she knew she needed him to support her [since the case did emotionally affect her], and he did.

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11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

WE aired "Amends" earlier tonight/this morning. It's still so great to see Kathryn Erbe/Alex Eames get her moment in the sun. The scene in the car/SUV as she described how all the police/colleagues she saw again at her husband's partner's wake sort of drifted away after Joe died, and how there was no longer a place for her was well done.

And, of course, I loved Bobby using his "whackjob" reputation complete with crazy faces to help Alex find the lost evidence in Joe's murder.

(And, as I pointed out before, I think that scene in the car/SUV was one of the very few times that we see Bobby driving instead of Alex.)

I liked that Alex seemed to appreciate Bobby's support overall. Yes, they clashed, but the scene where she tells Ross her partner didn't adapt well to change (when Ross wanted to pull her from the case) told me that she brought him up for her own sake, too. I think she knew she needed him to support her [since the case did emotionally affect her], and he did.

I like Amends because it was nice to see Eames get some focus and she was good in the episode, and the case was rather complex but everything made sense in the end. I didn’t like how they were acting like Goren was hated by the higher ups, this didn’t start until season 6, Goren was always eccentric but given the amount of cases he solved it seems like he would be loved by the top brass, but when the show runners changed before season 6 everything about the show seemed to change and suddenly the top brass disliked Goren. I really hated what they did to Goren in those seasons, at least he got a good ending in season 10 though.

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10 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I like Amends because it was nice to see Eames get some focus and she was good in the episode, and the case was rather complex but everything made sense in the end. I didn’t like how they were acting like Goren was hated by the higher ups, this didn’t start until season 6, Goren was always eccentric but given the amount of cases he solved it seems like he would be loved by the top brass, but when the show runners changed before season 6 everything about the show seemed to change and suddenly the top brass disliked Goren. I really hated what they did to Goren in those seasons, at least he got a good ending in season 10 though.

True and I can't think of any reason for it.

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3 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

True and I can't think of any reason for it.

Yeah, I think it was just the new showrunner wanting to make the show more melodramatic and soapy and add in personal drama, it really, really weakened the show. I know season 9 is most people’s least favorite season, and I’m not a big fan of it either, but season 6 is my least favorite season, I just hated the way the show changed directions and became soapy melodrama, and I loathed how they changed Goren into someone where a lot of people thought he was a “whack job”, and of course Ross was a turd.

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3 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Of the highest order.

Yep, and it pissed me off how Ross seemed to get twice the screen time that the far superior Deakins got. Ross reeked of smugness and arrogance and was a condescending prick to his detectives, and I did not feel anything when he was killed off. And Ross’ replacement Zoe Callas was exceptionally dull and forgettable. At least we finally got a solid squad commander in season 10 in Joe Hannah.

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8 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yep, and it pissed me off how Ross seemed to get twice the screen time that the far superior Deakins got. Ross reeked of smugness and arrogance and was a condescending prick to his detectives, and I did not feel anything when he was killed off. And Ross’ replacement Zoe Callas was exceptionally dull and forgettable. At least we finally got a solid squad commander in season 10 in Joe Hannah.

After playing such an evil murderer in Dead.

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4 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

After playing such an evil murderer in Dead.

Yeah, he’s a good actor, he played Joe Hannah well after previously playing a memorable villain, he also played an evil piece of shit in the Mothership episode Tabula Rasa who kidnapped and brainwashed his daughters and pushed a woman in front of a subway train when she recognized him. He was more unlikable in the Mothership episode than in Dead, although both characters were cold blooded killers. 

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Some good episodes airing tomorrow morning (1:00 a.m. and 2:00 a.m.) for the night owls from Season 7: "Reunion" with Joan Jett as a cool corpse (LOL! Still wish she got to act out some flashbacks or the lead up to the murder or whatnot!) and Goren having fun with magic in "Vanishing Act".

Always good to see Christopher Lloyd in the latter. Played a great "drunk", although after playing "Reverend" Jim on Taxi in the '70s, who often seemed to be on something, I guess "The Great Carmine" being a lush came easy. 😛

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14 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Some good episodes airing tomorrow morning (1:00 a.m. and 2:00 a.m.) for the night owls from Season 7: "Reunion" with Joan Jett as a cool corpse (LOL! Still wish she got to act out some flashbacks or the lead up to the murder or whatnot!) and Goren having fun with magic in "Vanishing Act".

Always good to see Christopher Lloyd in the latter. Played a great "drunk", although after playing "Reverend" Jim on Taxi in the '70s, who often seemed to be on something, I guess "The Great Carmine" being a lush came easy. 😛

I watched Reunion, I do think it’s a strong episode with a good investigation, but I remember the first time I watched it I predicted the 2 main twists - that Tara would be the killer, and that Jordy was Milo’s father, so it was somewhat predictable. I didn’t see it coming that Tara and Milo were sleeping together though. Interesting episode, one of the better ones from season 7 IMO.

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12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Reunion, I do think it’s a strong episode with a good investigation, but I remember the first time I watched it I predicted the 2 main twists - that Tara would be the killer, and that Jordy was Milo’s father, so it was somewhat predictable. I didn’t see it coming that Tara and Milo were sleeping together though. Interesting episode, one of the better ones from season 7 IMO.

I get the episode had to end, but I thought Milo just seemingly accepting Jordy as his father and hugging him and all that was unrealistic. I mean, Milo thought his father died in a plane crash, and yet here he is, the family friend that basically comes and goes?

I think Milo would be angry as hell, especially adding his addiction issues into the mix...

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Tonight's late-night/early morning block features "Ten Count" with the late Miguel Ferrer and "Legacy" with the disgusting shits at the private school. (Still half expected the snot's dad, played by John Shea, to start screaming about an EGG CUP! LOL! Poor guy will never live that role down.)

As for "Ten Count", just like with Eames and Amends and Goren with Frame, I really doubt - in real life - that Logan would be allowed to investigate since he had a personal relationship with one of the suspects.

Gotta love TV logic.

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