Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[scriggle]

I was watching Tomorrow on WE. The ending always is a little confusing to me. They concoct a scheme to get Hannah to talk by having the victims' father provide a high priced lawyer for Sarah. And it works, Hannah blurts out everything as the father is leaving with Sarah. But then what? Does he somehow take back the bail for Sarah? Un-retain the high priced lawyer? Did the lawyer he retained know about the scheme? Because if she did, she's unethical. So many questions.

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, scriggle said:

I was watching Tomorrow on WE. The ending always is a little confusing to me. They concoct a scheme to get Hannah to talk by having the victims' father provide a high priced lawyer for Sarah. And it works, Hannah blurts out everything as the father is leaving with Sarah. But then what? Does he somehow take back the bail for Sarah? Un-retain the high priced lawyer? Did the lawyer he retained know about the scheme? Because if she did, she's unethical. So many questions.

I assume he would quit paying for the high priced lawyer, and yeah if the lawyer knew about the scheme she would be very unethical, but I doubt she did. Carver could try to have Sara’s bail revoked, who knows if he would succeed, but I assume Hannah would please guilty and testify against Sara, which meant Sara might plead guilty as well rather than go to trial. I like that episode, it’s rather bizarre but unique and compelling, but yeah the ending is somewhat confusing and I wondered what would happen with regards to the victims father paying for the lawyer and all.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I assume he would quit paying for the high priced lawyer, and yeah if the lawyer knew about the scheme she would be very unethical, but I doubt she did. Carver could try to have Sara’s bail revoked, who knows if he would succeed, but I assume Hannah would please guilty and testify against Sara, which meant Sara might plead guilty as well rather than go to trial. I like that episode, it’s rather bizarre but unique and compelling, but yeah the ending is somewhat confusing and I wondered what would happen with regards to the victims father paying for the lawyer and all.

So back to Shatenstein, again?

[Xeliou66]

5 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

So back to Shatenstein, again?

She would probably be assigned another public defender, not the same one that was representing Hannah. 

[WendyCR72]

And the actress playing the snooty second wife of the airline magnate in that episode, "Tomorrow" in S2, Noelle Beck, would return in S10 as Debra Brite in "Rispetto".

[Sigmagirl]

So it just occurred to me: After Dr. Charles Webb goes off to prison in "Crazy," does scheming Sarah Lindstrom end up with the Judas Ullulaq sculpture after all? 
 

also: all respect to Inuit culture and traditions, but it must be harsh to carry around the name Judas. I mean I thought Cain was bad.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

So it just occurred to me: After Dr. Charles Webb goes off to prison in "Crazy," does scheming Sarah Lindstrom end up with the Judas Ullulaq sculpture after all? 
 

also: all respect to Inuit culture and traditions, but it must be harsh to carry around the name Judas. I mean I thought Cain was bad.

Anything is possible. Sarah just seemed like a tease. I mean, Dr. Webb was creepy with a capital C, but she should have been honest EARLY on and said she wasn't interested. Instead, she seemed to lead Dr. Crazy on, making him think he had a shot, when it was clear Sarah had one foot out the door.

While Webb killing her ex-BIL wasn't her fault, maybe had she been honest from word go and not encouraged a relationship, Webb would not have felt the need to "impress" her in his sick way.

[Xeliou66]

I didn’t like Sara Lindstrom from Crazy at all - she was leading the obsessed Dr Webb on, and I’m not sure what she got out of the relationship, it was weird. No one was sympathetic in that episode, not Dr Webb, not the hitman, not the victim who was rigging the court proceedings, not the ex wife/Sara’s sister who got her daughter to fabricate the abuse claims and not Sara. A very good episode but no character was likable. I loved seeing Skoda come in to help out, it’s too bad he didn’t appear more, CI had a lot of complex suspects that could use a psych profile.

[WendyCR72]

10 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

not the ex wife/Sara’s sister who got her daughter to fabricate the abuse claims

Except Sophie didn't. She told Bobby the truth about pooping her pants. Julie Feldman, however, even knowing why her kid was groggy and red "down there" after her visit with her father was the one who took her daughter to the hospital and made that untrue accusation to get back at her ex in court.

As I said before, as the kids got older, I hope they learned what their mother did and made her life hell. Yeah, their dad also sounded like a controlling asshat, but that accusation was the excuse Crazy Charlie used to kill their father.

[WendyCR72]

"Shandeh" with the now-late Ned Eisenberg as wimpy Danny is just ending on WE. He was so meek it made me wonder why his wife, Kelly, would convert for him.

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Except Sophie didn't. She told Bobby the truth about pooping her pants. Julie Feldman, however, even knowing why her kid was groggy and red "down there" after her visit with her father was the one who took her daughter to the hospital and made that untrue accusation to get back at her ex in court.

As I said before, as the kids got older, I hope they learned what their mother did and made her life hell. Yeah, their dad also sounded like a controlling asshat, but that accusation was the excuse Crazy Charlie used to kill their father.

Yes that’s right she manipulated things to make the untrue allegation of abuse. Not a sympathetic character in the bunch in that episode. 

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes that’s right she manipulated things to make the untrue allegation of abuse. Not a sympathetic character in the bunch in that episode. 

Well, maybe Sophie and her brother. But it's sad when the kids are the only ones that look good.

[WendyCR72]

On WE late night/early morning Tuesday, "But Not Forgotten" from S3 will be among the two episodes shown, with Isobel and her dirty cop second hubby that killed the first.

Just mentioning it since Alicia Coppola, who played her, recently popped up on the Mothership revival as the attorney for the person that killed the Cosbyesque dude that raped her. Older, obviously, but she looked fine. Her voice is still distinctive, though!

Nice to know the Dick Wolf Casting Agency remembers actors it has used across the franchise through the years. Hee.

[peacheslatour]

Lol, I'm watching Shrink Wrapped right now and Eames made another classic hilarious remark. They're pretending to be a married couple looking at art pieces and the artist used sulphuric acid to etch copper. Eames is walking around his studio and he has the acid in open containers. You can hear her off in the back round somewhere saying in her best midwestern soccer mom voice "Why anyone could get into these! Cats! Small children!"

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Lol, I'm watching Shrink Wrapped right now and Eames made another classic hilarious remark. They're pretending to be a married couple looking at art pieces and the artist used sulphuric acid to etch copper. Eames is walking around his studio and he has the acid in open containers. You can hear her off in the back round somewhere saying in her best midwestern soccer mom voice "Why anyone could get into these! Cats! Small children!"

I never noticed that! But that is funny, and very "Eames". I like, after the guy realizes they are cops, he is all disappointed and says, "So you're not buying anything?" and Eames is all we'll take some of your acid samples.

Kathryn Erbe delivers the snark expertly.

On a side note, Eloise and her psychologist (of which Eloise sort of put down, as I recall, as hubby wasn't a full-fledged psychiatrist like herself!) hubby got the daughter they deserved in Camilla. Damn, what a messed-up bunch they are. It's horrifying to think they have patients!

They probably made them worse instead of better and both should lose their licenses.

[Xeliou66]

On 3/25/2022 at 7:00 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I never noticed that! But that is funny, and very "Eames". I like, after the guy realizes they are cops, he is all disappointed and says, "So you're not buying anything?" and Eames is all we'll take some of your acid samples.

Kathryn Erbe delivers the snark expertly.

On a side note, Eloise and her psychologist (of which Eloise sort of put down, as I recall, as hubby wasn't a full-fledged psychiatrist like herself!) hubby got the daughter they deserved in Camilla. Damn, what a messed-up bunch they are. It's horrifying to think they have patients!

They probably made them worse instead of better and both should lose their licenses.

Oh god those 2 shrinks were just fucking nuts. They may have been the most dysfunctional family in CI history, no doubt both of them should lose their licenses and yeah they would just make things worse for their patients. What the hell was wrong with Graham and Eloise? I wondered if Camilla would go for some sort of psych defense. I wish Skoda or Olivet had been in that episode to give a perspective on the situation, that was one case where they could’ve used a psych expert.

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Oh god those 2 shrinks were just fucking nuts. They may have been the most dysfunctional family in CI history, no doubt both of them should lose their licenses and yeah they would just make things worse for their patients. What the hell was wrong with Graham and Eloise? I wondered if Camilla would go for some sort of psych defense. I wish Skoda or Olivet had been in that episode to give a perspective on the situation, that was one case where they could’ve used a psych expert.

That whole bunch would have been better off being dropped on a deserted island, away from society, and just make themselves miserable. I can't decide which family is more fucked up: Eloise and Graham and their darling daughter or the Reed family in "On Fire" two seasons later, where the stepmother gets knocked up by the stepson, thus making said baby from that nastiness turn into an arsonist...

Then again, there is always Tommy Onorato, celebrity chef and scumbag that raped his own daughter for years.

And Jo and Declan Gage. Enough said there.

And Chesley Watkins and her murdering foster sons...

God, listing them, CI really liked its nasty families, didn't it?!

[peacheslatour]

Can we ever forget Hot Tub Harry and his jolly family of sociopaths? Or the old asshole and his latex loving sons? Or how about The Killer and Mrs. Magoo and the stone baby?

[WendyCR72]

12 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Can we ever forget Hot Tub Harry and his jolly family of sociopaths? Or the old asshole and his latex loving sons? Or how about The Killer and Mrs. Magoo and the stone baby?

The last pairing with Rose the tuna maker and her murderous mechanic look almost warm and fuzzy next to everyone else listed.

Which says a bunch about the perps featured on this series. Then again, it is called Criminal Intent, so...

[WendyCR72]

How ironic: "Shrink Wrapped" with Camilla and her repulsive parents is just starting now on WE.

[Shadow Lass]

On 3/2/2022 at 3:04 AM, WendyCR72 said:

But I hate that they never show the short scene of Bobby with said forger friend! I remember Bobby checking on the friend's work in one of the interrogation rooms, asking, "How's it going?" Early Bobby with his many friends was always fun to watch.

They showed this scene on WEtv (or maybe it was Sundance) just recently.

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Shadow Lass

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 minutes ago, Shadow Lass said:

They showed this scene on WEtv (or maybe it was Sundance) just recently.

 

 

 

This show isn't on Sundance, Unless they've added it recently.

[peacheslatour]

1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

This show isn't on Sundance, Unless they've added it recently.

I' m watching it on there right now. Crazy with Michael Gross.

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I' m watching it on there right now. Crazy with Michael Gross.

Huh. When did that happen? And get ready for the crazy-ass nonsensical bleeping.

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Huh. When did that happen? And get ready for the crazy-ass nonsensical bleeping.

It's been since at least last fall. What bleeping?

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

It's been since at least last fall. What bleeping?

The nonsensical bleeping of words like "ass", "crap", "crapper", etc. like they do for the mothership.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The nonsensical bleeping of words like "ass", "crap", "crapper", etc. like they do for the mothership.

They don't do it with CI.

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

This show isn't on Sundance, Unless they've added it recently.

Yeah, it is. Has been for about a year now!  :)

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

They don't do it with CI.

No, they just edit lines/scenes, at least on WE. As Sundance is its sister channel, the jury is out as I haven't paid attention to edits there. WE has edited bunches, a la the "pissed himself" line to Arnie as Bobby was reading the book excerpt in "Semi-Professional" in S1, the scene with Nyle Brite and the Paris Hilton lookalike hooker, as Nyle asked if her father knew she was a whore, and Captain Hannah's "the guy breathes douchebag!" line in "The Last Street In Manhattan", as a few examples.

When the show was airing on ION (formerly squeaky-clean PAX), that channel also edited out the "You PRICK!" line from Roger the dramaturg at the end of "Icarus", too.

[basiltherat]

If I'm remembering correctly, in "Poison" -- the one with Trudy -- didn't G&E come across a nurse who kept 'killing" patients so she could zap them back to life for the kudos.  And then they came across Trudy, who was even nuttier.

And in "Crazy" Sarah strung crazy Steven Keaton along so her sister could get a qualified opinion on Sophie's father "molesting' her so Sarah's sister could get a divorce.

[GHScorpiosRule]

16 minutes ago, basiltherat said:

If I'm remembering correctly, in "Poison" -- the one with Trudy -- didn't G&E come across a nurse who kept 'killing" patients so she could zap them back to life for the kudos.  And then they came across Trudy, who was even nuttier.

And in "Crazy" Sarah strung crazy Steven Keaton along so her sister could get a qualified opinion on Sophie's father "molesting' her so Sarah's sister could get a divorce.

Yes. Their first suspect was the nurse who collected those beanie babies or whatever. But upon further investigation, Bobby said she didn’t fit the profile. Then the news broke about the tampered medication, which eventually led to Trudy.

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, basiltherat said:

If I'm remembering correctly, in "Poison" -- the one with Trudy -- didn't G&E come across a nurse who kept 'killing" patients so she could zap them back to life for the kudos.  And then they came across Trudy, who was even nuttier.

And in "Crazy" Sarah strung crazy Steven Keaton along so her sister could get a qualified opinion on Sophie's father "molesting' her so Sarah's sister could get a divorce.

Yeah, Sarah Lindstrom the tease strung crazy Steven Keaton (I like that!) along, I guess for her sister. And maybe a bit of narcissism as she seemed to get off on him fawning over her or whatever.

As I said before, Stephanie Seymour was once involved with Axl Rose, lead singer of Guns 'N Roses and was in their "trilogy" set of videos for "Don't Cry", "November Rain", and "Estranged".

[Shadow Lass]

On 3/28/2022 at 12:55 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

This show isn't on Sundance, Unless they've added it recently.

It is. Tuesdays and Wednesdays, then WEtv has it Thursdays and Fridays.

Of course we are on the lowest Dish tier, which had Sundance until December, then pulled it, then put it back on again, and now it's gone again...

Thank goodness for Peacock and my DVD set!

[Shadow Lass]

I just noticed something funny in "Playing Dead," when Alex gets the message about the impounded vehicle. Freeze frame on her e-mail box--naughty girl, she ordered shoes from her work account! 😉 Love it.

 

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

I just noticed something funny in "Playing Dead," when Alex gets the message about the impounded vehicle. Freeze frame on her e-mail box--naughty girl, she ordered shoes from her work account! 😉 Love it.

 

Us ladies have to look good! Go, Alex! LOL!

[peacheslatour]

13 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

It is. Tuesdays and Wednesdays, then WEtv has it Thursdays and Fridays.

Of course we are on the lowest Dish tier, which had Sundance until December, then pulled it, then put it back on again, and now it's gone again...

Thank goodness for Peacock and my DVD set!

In my market it's on Sundance Mondays and Tuesdays. WEtv on Thursday and Friday. Nothing on Wednesday but then I watch Mothership.

[Sigmagirl]

19 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

I just noticed something funny in "Playing Dead," when Alex gets the message about the impounded vehicle. Freeze frame on her e-mail box--naughty girl, she ordered shoes from her work account! 😉 Love it.

 

Or maybe that’s her personal account and she looks up police reports on it! She could get in even worse trouble for that!

Either way, we deserve to see the shoes.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Sigmagirl

[WendyCR72]

13 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

In my market it's on Sundance Mondays and Tuesdays. WEtv on Thursday and Friday. Nothing on Wednesday but then I watch Mothership.

Yeah, Mondays and Tuesdays, CI is on Sundance, then a few episodes on Thursdays and Fridays on WE, before Criminal Minds (which is like torture porn, IMO!).

The show is also on most of the week on WE in late night in two-hour blocks, rounding things out...

[Shadow Lass]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, Mondays and Tuesdays, CI is on Sundance, then a few episodes on Thursdays and Fridays on WE, before Criminal Minds (which is like torture porn, IMO!).

The show is also on most of the week on WE in late night in two-hour blocks, rounding things out...

It's Mondays ad Tuesdays. Sice we don't get Sundance o the Dish Flex Pack anymore, I couldn't look it up.

[Shadow Lass]

16 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

Or maybe that’s her personal account and she looks up police reports on it! She could get in even worse trouble for that!

Either way, we deserve to see the shoes.

No, no, no. I don't see Alex doing that. I was a Fed for 32 years and will assume state/city governments have the same rules--NO LOOKING AT WORK E-MAILS ON PERSONAL ACCOUNTS. That will get you in bad, bad trouble; it's a security risk and at the least you'll get a disciplinary letter in your permanent file. Once my work e-mail wasn't working and I needed to get a contract proposal in before the end of the day, and I had to go to my branch chief to get permission to receive the proposal via my personal e-mail so it would get in by the deadline (since the deadline was irrevocable).

I just got a big kick out of it, since Alex is such a straight arrow.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Shadow Lass

[Sigmagirl]

57 minutes ago, Shadow Lass said:

No, no, no. I don't see Alex doing that. I was a Fed for 32 years and will assume state/city governments have the same rules--NO LOOKING AT WORK E-MAILS ON PERSONAL ACCOUNTS. That will get you in bad, bad trouble; it's a security risk and at the least you'll get a disciplinary letter in your permanent file. Once my work e-mail wasn't working and I needed to get a contract proposal in before the end of the day, and I had to go to my branch chief to get permission to receive the proposal via my personal e-mail so it would get in by the deadline (since the deadline was irrevocable).

I just got a big kick out of it, since Alex is such a straight arrow.

Noted. 
still need to see the shoes.

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

No, no, no. I don't see Alex doing that. I was a Fed for 32 years and will assume state/city governments have the same rules--NO LOOKING AT WORK E-MAILS ON PERSONAL ACCOUNTS. That will get you in bad, bad trouble; it's a security risk and at the least you'll get a disciplinary letter in your permanent file. Once my work e-mail wasn't working and I needed to get a contract proposal in before the end of the day, and I had to go to my branch chief to get permission to receive the proposal via my personal e-mail so it would get in by the deadline (since the deadline was irrevocable).

I just got a big kick out of it, since Alex is such a straight arrow.

I admire the dedication - even doing a screen capture to show the shoe e-mail! :) I got a kick out of it myself. I wonder if TPTB do things like this deliberately for the more ardent fans to spot?

[peacheslatour]

Goren to Jojo (perp) "That's a nice,,serape..no that's not it, It's a s s s .."

Jojo: "Sweater. It's a sweater,"

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Goren to Jojo (perp) "That's a nice,,serape..no that's not it, It's a s s s .."

Jojo: "Sweater. It's a sweater,"

Carlos Leon seemed to pop up often enough. Still find it hard to believe he is the father of Madonna's eldest kid.

Of course, he also popped up in "Blind Spot" and "Amends", so he played three different characters, with the latter two sort of close in time...  (I just realized that meant he was in the premiere episodes of both S6 and S7! Kind of funky.)

[Xeliou66]

I watched View From Up Here last night - I really like this episode, it’s a strong case with an interesting cast of suspects and I liked the setting of the high rise condo and all of the activity going on there. The killer was a slimy looking dude, and it was an interesting case that took a variety of turns before it became clear it was about obsession and an affair. I’m not sure what other people think of this episode but it’s very good IMO, and interestingly enough it’s one of season 4’s more “normal” cases, for lack of a better word, in that it wasn’t super dark or strange. 

[peacheslatour]

37 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched View From Up Here last night - I really like this episode, it’s a strong case with an interesting cast of suspects and I liked the setting of the high rise condo and all of the activity going on there. The killer was a slimy looking dude, and it was an interesting case that took a variety of turns before it became clear it was about obsession and an affair. I’m not sure what other people think of this episode but it’s very good IMO, and interestingly enough it’s one of season 4’s more “normal” cases, for lack of a better word, in that it wasn’t super dark or strange. 

I like that one a lot. Adam Goldberg is really good at playing creepy weirdos. 

 

 Seen  here on Friends as Chandler's creepy roommate.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by peacheslatour

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

The killer was a slimy looking dude

Adam Goldberg has made a career out of playing oddballs and weirdos! (I see someone posted a picture of Chandler and Eddie from Friends above.) Eddie had a Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker in an aquarium tank as a pet, liked to sit in Chandler's room and watch him sleep, and liked to play with mannequin heads.

So yeah, weirdo. Although Chandler convincing Eddie (the scene in the picture) that he never lived in the apartment and had Joey as a roommate - and Eddie BUYING it - was genius.

The only time I ever saw him play sort of normal was on the short-lived '90s ABC series, "Relativity" (I miss that one.)

But back to the subject, I also like "The View Up There". And both actresses playing Darla (who lost her husband) and Anne Marie (the naive religious patsy) did great work, too. I do like that the building seemed to be a hub of so many dysfunctional happenings. And yeah, when that case is considered sort of normal/a reprieve of sorts, you know Season 4 was dark.

[Shadow Lass]

On 4/1/2022 at 10:56 AM, Sigmagirl said:

Noted. 
still need to see the shoes.

LOL. I'm sorry, I'm one woman who doesn't get the shoe thing. I have eight pairs of shoes, two which I never wear, one pair that doesn't fit, two for wearing only in the yard. This leaves the two pair of black Reebox I wear during the week and my snow boots.

And God, I hate buying shoes. That's like Living Hell.

I'm like Bobby. Books. I want books. (Okay. And pens and stickers for my journal.)

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

But back to the subject, I also like "The View Up There". And both actresses playing Darla (who lost her husband) and Anne Marie (the naive religious patsy) did great work, too. I do like that the building seemed to be a hub of so many dysfunctional happenings. And yeah, when that case is considered sort of normal/a reprieve of sorts, you know Season 4 was dark.

It’s an underrated episode IMO, I loved the setting of the building and the suspects were interesting, and I liked how many red herrings Goren/Eames sorted through before coming to the truth. And while it was a complex plot, everything made perfect sense and was completely understandable at the end. It was impressive how Carver could quote the biblical passage that Anne Marie mentioned, we never knew whether Carver was religious or had a religious education but he was obviously knowledgable about it.

And yeah season 4 was super dark and weird, this was a pretty normal case compared to some of the crazy/weird and/or dark stuff in other Season 4 episodes. But season 4 is still a great season.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It’s an underrated episode IMO, I loved the setting of the building and the suspects were interesting, and I liked how many red herrings Goren/Eames sorted through before coming to the truth. And while it was a complex plot, everything made perfect sense and was completely understandable at the end. It was impressive how Carver could quote the biblical passage that Anne Marie mentioned, we never knew whether Carver was religious or had a religious education but he was obviously knowledgable about it.

And yeah season 4 was super dark and weird, this was a pretty normal case compared to some of the crazy/weird and/or dark stuff in other Season 4 episodes. But season 4 is still a great season.

I will say death by chainsaw seemed to be a novel approach. Don't see that too often on crime shows!