Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[Chaser]

Lol I'm so against that line for anyone. To me it doesn't fit any character on the show. It screams Look At This Character! They Wear Snowflakes!

I get having low esteem and not believing you are worthy of something, but that shouldn't translate to putting others on a pedestal. So really hoping the light metaphors are done with, but realistically know that is probably not the case.

[AyChihuahua]

I should clarify that I don't like the line, and I love Sara and think she has plenty of light. I more think it's basically in character for Sara to think the worst of herself, but it is not at all in character for Felicity to think/say the worst of Sara.

[Starfish35]

I think another problem I have with that speech.....other than that line.....

They spent quite a few episodes establishing, not entirely consistently, but at least putting the idea out there, that part of Laurel's motivation is that she's dealing with her anger and rage by fighting instead of using alcohol or drugs. Even in this episode Oliver says that. And then suddenly Felicity comes along and basically says "oh no, that's all wrong."

I hope I'm not out of line here, but... I think Sara wore her mask just as much to hide her demons as she did to help people. And I don't see that with you. You have a light inside of you that Sara never had. So... maybe you should stop trying to be Sara... and just be yourself.

"Oh no, you don't have any demons you're trying to bury (even though the show has spent several episodes telling us just the opposite). Your motivations are true and pure! You have a special light inside of you! You're just doing this to help people! "

And correct me if I'm wrong but once Felicity blesses Laurel's mission by this speech, it's never questioned again, other than Oliver telling her she needs more training. It just really irritates me.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Starfish35

[Sakura12]

What's funny now, is that Sara's going to be wearing white which is associated with light. While Laurel's still wearing all black. 

[Chaser]

I will forever laugh at the stupidity in which Laurel got the name Black Canary. In no way will it ever make sense to the narrative.

[EmilyBettFan]

That's because the whole character doesn't make sense and neither is the way the actress plays her.

Her fans can't blame everything on producers and writers. Everyone has had shitty production or lines they had to go through. It's the way you make it work to your advantage. She never has.

[Smoaking Reporter]

KC said that Laurel would be crossing over to Legends. As I thought. I knew they wouldn't pass on the opportunity to have Black Canary/White Canary together in that show. She also said things aren't what they seem in S4. Which has me so freaking excited! After S3 I'm down for having some twists and turns that are not predictable & just for shock value. So fingers crossed. DD looks like a kick ass villain.

[Starfish35]

Crossing over permanently or crossing over for an occasional guest appearance? The latter isn't surprising at all. It's the idea of her moving permanently that's been debated here.

[Smoaking Reporter]

Crossing over permanently or crossing over for an occasional guest appearance? The latter isn't surprising at all. It's the idea of her moving permanently that's been debated here.

I assumed she was talking about a guest appearance on Legends.

[Sakura12]

Ugg, I hope Because Comics only role in the Crossover is to wave Sara off to her show, then she goes back to Arrow and stays there. She can do phone calls to Sara and that's it. I really don't want to see her on LoT or need to see Black Canary and White Canary fight together. You'd think they'd want them to stay separate to not bring up the comparisons again. Sara/Caity is much better in the role especially the fight scenes, why draw attention to that?

 

Because Comics is just getting everything Sara already had without having to earn it or work for it for very long. That's all I'm going to see if they keep them together too long. 

[Starfish35]

Every time someone talks about Laurel being on LoT a little piece of my interest in that show dies. I know it's silly, because it doesn't have any effect on what actually happens, but just the idea is like having cold water thrown on the enthusiasm I've had for that show. LOL.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

Every time someone talks about Laurel being on LoT a little piece of my interest in that show dies. I know it's silly, because it doesn't have any effect on what actually happens, but just the idea is like having cold water thrown on the enthusiasm I've had for that show. LOL.

 

I now sort of feel bad for that debate we had a week or two ago :p I'm sorry!!! 

[Starfish35]

Haha no don't be sorry. I just really wish I didn't hate the character so much. Just about anything I hear about her coming up this season is like sad trombones in the back of my mind. LOL. :) Except for Sara's resurrection, maybe just because I expected that all along.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Starfish35

[BunsenBurner]

I'm really beginning to wonder if she is going to be the roving person. I'm sure I'm wrong I usually am but things keep pointing to her.  Unless they decided not to do that.

[apinknightmare]

IIRC, someone asked MG on Tumblr if it was going to be Laurel, and he said that it wasn't.

[Starfish35]

Unless they've recently changed their mind, Laurel being the floater was ruled out by MG quite a while ago.

ETA: or what apinknighmare said. :)

Edited September 8, 2015 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

Haha no don't be sorry. I just really wish I didn't hate the character so much. Just about anything I hear about her coming up this season is like sad trombones in the back of my mind. LOL. :) Except for Sara's resurrection, maybe just because I expected that all along.

 

Don't we all wish this though? Our fandom lives would be way easier to deal with :p 

 

I do wonder how she'll be received on LoT though. Because I'm 99% sure most of the audience for that show will come from Arrow/Flash, so the audience is going into the show with a certain mindset about Sara/Laurel. 

IIRC, someone asked MG on Tumblr if it was going to be Laurel, and he said that it wasn't.

 

The show changes its mind a lot (look at Sara's death)

[apinknightmare]

They could have changed their mind, but I highly doubt it's going to be her. I don't think KC would've worded her comment as being in talks for a crossover if she was negotiating to be a floater between three different shows. 

[BunsenBurner]

Unless that's her way of telling us she is the one who was finally chosen for that role. 

[apinknightmare]

I think they already had a person in mind when they decided that was going to be a position that needed to be filled. 

[Starfish35]

Yeah when this whole thing about a floater first came up, from something SA said at a con IIRC, it sounded like he already knew who that person was.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm really beginning to wonder if she is going to be the roving person. I'm sure I'm wrong I usually am but things keep pointing to her.  Unless they decided not to do that.

 

I really, really doubt it's Laurel. That person has to be able to appeal to fans of all three shows, not be a polarizing figure.

[Sunshine]

I think she should "crossover" to LOT. On the way there she should get lost in another time period. Sara's not expecting her so no one goes looking for her. Arrow peeps think she's gone to assist Sara and just decided to remain there. They don't go looking either. Some fans of both shows are happy?

[wonderwall]

Ray: Hey Sara, I thought your sister was supposed to get here at 3

Sara: She was, I don't know what happened to her

Everyone: Meh...

 

... and life goes on 

[kismet]

I think she should "crossover" to LOT. On the way there she should get lost in another time period. Sara's not expecting her so no one goes looking for her. Arrow peeps think she's gone to assist Sara and just decided to remain there. They don't go looking either. Some fans of both shows are happy?

I totally said something similar about leaving her in another time period during our every other week merry-go-round of "what to do with LL". She's really into buckles, so maybe they can bring her back in time before the zipper was created.

 

I guess whatever will help KC "come into her own" as a female star is what we should all be hoping for. Seriously, I don't like to throw shade at actors, but some of those quotes from Dragon Con were just so questionable. It's entertaining to say the least. I know some stuff is taken out of context, but some was just way to open for negative interpretation. Part of me wants her to get some PR finishing training and the other part just doesn't want her to change because its just too entertaining.

[BkWurm1]

Ray: Hey Sara, I thought your sister was supposed to get here at 3

Sara: She was, I don't know what happened to her

Everyone: Meh...

 

... and life goes on 

Or maybe Laurel goes back in time and accidentally erases her existence and nobody even remembers her in the first place. 

[HighwayFlower]

I will never understand why they didn't write her off after S1 when it was obvious she wasn't working. Now she is like that annoying relative you have to just accept at the family gatherings because she isn't going anywhere.

[statsgirl]

Every so often, a question about Laurel's eyelashes comes up.  Here is the answer from DragonCon as well as some general info about her costume (article is spoilery for early s4):

Someone simply asked how comfortable the costume was, and Katie’s response was extremely detailed. “It’s actually really comfortable. [Our costume designer was fantastic.] She actually let me have a little bit of input. I just have to say I was really happy I was not fully exposed. I was like, okay I’m not going to be running around in…a boustier. And I saw Caity when she was wearing it and she was freezing all the time […] They let me incorporate the motorcycle gloves, fingerless gloves, and you know, there’s a fishnet. And then a bodysuit underneath and the top of it is sort of like a fishnet. So, they let me put little touches here and there. And I also had a lot to do with the makeup because it’s interesting we had…like six different tests for what the Black Canary was going to look like when I was the Black Canary. And I was suited up in costume […] Everything looks so masculine in the mask because everybody has blacked out eyes and my suit is so masculine and I was like, it just looked very intense with you know, the suit being masculine, then the face and the black […] And I was like can we make this just a little bit more girly, sexy, and not so harsh? And they actually, at first, that was like their least favorite look and then Mark Guggenheim, our makeup artist, and Greg Berlanti pleaded their case and they were like ‘She looks better this way’.”

 

Speaking of Katie’s Black Canary makeup, she revealed that the dark lipstick was her choice as well, and the color is MAC Vino, which I’ll now be purchasing as soon as possible. She also explained, “It’s actually a whole process and I’m very specific and love minor details. My bottom eyelashes, I don’t know if it even translates, but I’m really into fashion and I just love it. I take my bottom eyelashes and make them, do you remember Twiggy? So, I separate them with a tweezer. It takes like twenty minutes just for the bottom lashes. So, I literary sit there and like tweeze them together so kind of like have that more dramatic effect. But I think it looks cool and it’s funky. Spice things up a bit.”

[AyChihuahua]

I just...what?

[Primal Slayer]

I can understand what she said about it looking masuline since it easily can. I feel like the costume designer wasn't very inspired when making it in general, I wish they would streamline it and add in some yellow. Though I don't get the point of giving her a shirt that is laced at the top but we never see it since her jacket is zipped 100% of the time. Let it be unzipped partially sometimes!

 

While I love the design of the mask and she looks SOOOO much better without the wig, I would like to see how she looks with the blackout eyes.Though I think she still looks good without it.

 

Though I feel it is so shady and dirty of MG and co. not to let her in on the plan of bringing in her sister and have her be Canary. Should've just kept her as Ravager so we wouldn't have to worry about the two being eternally compared to one another. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[apinknightmare]

I'm glad to finally know that the lash thing is on purpose. I think it looks terrible, but I was seriously beginning to question the mascara application skills of some of the makeup artists. I think the Twiggy effect looks better drawn on - not so clumpy and spidery. I suppose it doesn't matter so much, since we rarely get shots that are close-up enough to be able to make them out.

 

I like the blacked out eyes, I think it would make the mask look better. But since the mask is so huge on her face, and the costume goes all the way up to the neck, it would be too much. I doubt the whole effect would look very good. 

 

She needs to do something about those mesh, fingerless gloves, though. It's ridiculous. And maybe go with a lighter lip since there's so much black happening.

Edited September 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

So the fingerless gloves were her idea. Also the lack of black eyes to cover up her identity was her idea.

Not a single thing I can say about that, that won't get me in trouble...

[Primal Slayer]

Just because it was her idea doesn't mean they had to do them. Anyone in real life would've been able to see that it was Oliver under the hood at the beginning, Though I don't know why they didn't try to create some fishnet gloves that weren't fingerless.

[apinknightmare]

Having fishnet gloves at all is impractical. IDK why they didn't implement that somewhere else on her costume like they did Sara's. 

[Chaser]

No but really. Who thought of the BUCKLES?

[Primal Slayer]

Sara had her chest exposed with her boobs bulging out, fishnet gloves are more piratical then that. Now we have Oliver with his arms exposed.

[apinknightmare]

Sara had her chest exposed with her boobs bulging out, fishnet gloves are more piratical then that. Now we have Oliver with his arms exposed.

 

Sorry, she's a DA who's out breaking the law at night - anyone with two brain cells to rub together would cover up their hands so they wouldn't chance leaving a fingerprint or identifying mark anywhere. Those gloves are the most ridiculous part of her whole outfit, considering who she is. 

[dtissagirl]

Maybelline recently put out a mascara that does the clumpy thing ON PURPOSE:

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/style-beauty/beauty/advice/a40442/major-makeup-dont-clumpy-mascara-is-now-a-thing/

Black Canary: Fashion Trendsetter

[Chaser]

I wonder who "they" were? 

[Primal Slayer]

No but really. Who thought of the BUCKLES?

The designer must've been going through a phase though because Roys suit almost has as many buckles/straps as Laurels does. Though it is funny how his costume has more stitching when you would think they would've done something like for Black Canary.

 

[sorry, she's a DA who's out breaking the law at night - anyone with two brain cells to rub together would cover up their hands so they wouldn't chance leaving a fingerprint or identifying mark anywhere. Those gloves are the most ridiculous part of her whole outfit, considering who she is.]

 

Season 3 in general didn't run on to many brain cells. While the gloves look good, I agree they should've had her in gloves that cover her fingers which is why they should've just designed a hybrid. But they have always looked the other way at certain things. Diggle spent 2 years running around fighting the bad guys when he is linked to Oliver Queen as his bodyguard, Oliver was a playboy who just came back from the dead but had no paparazzi or anyone trailing him. He would disappear right as the Hood showed up.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[AyChihuahua]

I don't understand the point of having gloves at all if they're fingerless, plus being made of fishnet would cause chafing every time she punches something.

And yeah, as a DA her fingerprints are almost certainly in a database.

[apinknightmare]

Maybelline recently put out a mascara that does the clumpy thing ON PURPOSE:

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/style-beauty/beauty/advice/a40442/major-makeup-dont-clumpy-mascara-is-now-a-thing/

Black Canary: Fashion Trendsetter

 

I cringe every time I see that display in a store. Apart from looking generally terrible, it can't be comfortable. And you'd see little black spots in your field of vision every time you blink. Yuck.

Edited September 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

I feel like with her bone structure the blacked out eye would be way too harsh on her. I fanwave the dark lipstick as a way to conceal her identity since she doesn't wear that dark of a shade in her real life, so that's how I deal with it.

 

The rest of her input I think defeats the purpose of having a costume. Fingerless gloves leave fingerprints behind. Why hide all the fishnet bodysuit under an ill fitting jacket? Or at least as PrimalSlayer mentioned, at least unzip it from time to time. And the eyelashes, I just can't understand why she would think something that takes 20min to do just the bottom in real life should be a goal for costumed look. How much time is wasted saving people because you're putting on your eyelashes?

Edited September 11, 2015 by kismet

[dtissagirl]

It's like buying a brand new tube of OLD mascara. Fashion industry, man, it's A TRAP.

[Primal Slayer]

Just as the black eye paint magically disappears once Arrow/Canary/Arsenal/Speedy take off their mask, I guess Black Canarys eye lashes magically clump together or whatever when she puts her mask on.

[dtissagirl]

I wonder who "they" were?

Network/studio executives, most likely. And maybe some DC Comics folks as well.

[statsgirl]

No, the eyelash clumps are there all the time. It's something a number of people have remarked on.

 

Sometimes I think the EPs have decided we're all too nitpicky and don't get the real feeling of the comics.   Long flowing hair?  Of course it's not going to get in the way of a fight or be grabbed by a bad guy.  Fingerless gloves for a DA? Not a problem.  Oliver

having bare arms? Nothing will touch him, except maybe that bullet he's going to take for Diggle.

Diggle's

helmet that doesn't protect but does block his peripheral vision? But it looks cool!

  Even Willa Holland has said that her costume is too tight for some of the moves.

 

The costume I like best is the original Arrow costume, partly because SA insisted that it be something Oliver could get into own his own.

 

I'm glad to finally know that the lash thing is on purpose. I think it looks terrible, but I was seriously beginning to question the mascara application skills of some of the makeup artists. I think the Twiggy effect looks better drawn on - not so clumpy and spidery. I suppose it doesn't matter so much, since we rarely get shots that are close-up enough to be able to make them out.

I'd forgotten that, that they were drawn on back in the day.  I admire KC's dedication to her look and to going beyond the usual but 20 minutes just to do her bottom eyelashes?  Ouch.

Edited September 11, 2015 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

I mean, that is some SERIOUS dedication for something that you can't even really see, unless it's in a selfie or something. 

[Primal Slayer]

The show basically set it up self for failure/criticism when they harped on "realism" for 2 years.

[Chaser]

The mask highlights her bone structure and frames her eyes. The eyes are a focal point because they aren't blacked out. The dark lipstick completes the look. 

 

It's a model look. None of KC's imput came from the practical side of the costume. It was all about the fashion. I get it she wants to look good and unique, esp from Sara. 

 

IMO, it was too ambition and ends up looking ridiculous. 

 

I don't think it would have bothered me so much if I didn't think the rest of the outfit was also a miss. Way too complicated.