Elizabeth Webber: Forever The Manipulative Miss Or Adorable Angel?

[KerleyQ]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Liz isn't the only one who's had wonky money issues, but the writers seem to saddle her with them more often than others. And don't even get me started on a nurse, employed by a hospital, who has no health insurance.

Right?  When I was in high school and college, my Mom worked for a hospital (as an administrative assistant), and her insurance kicked ass.  It was so much better than my Dad's company's plan.  That's why I laugh every time this show pulls the "the nurse can't pay her medical bills" BS.  

[Badsamaritan]

Not to mention, she was attacked AT WORK. By a SERIAL KILLER. Not the one she's CURRENTLY DATING. The OTHER ONE. Workman's Comp would have paid for EVERYTHING. 

[dubbel zout]

Who was an employee of the City of Port Charles. Liz should sue Mayor Lomax for hiring Paul and the city for not doing any sort of due diligence.

Edited November 30, 2016 by dubbel zout

[Darklazr]

10 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

During RC's embarrassing "mob war" between Julian and Sonny,  Jake was working for Julian and tried to push Liz away to protect her from Teh Dangers. The next day, Liz told him that she'd sent her children away because she wasn't going to let him push her away again.

It was quite gross and wouldn't have been necessary if TIIC allowed Lucky to have partial custody. 

Lawd.  This is why I don't give AF what Elizabeth was doing, because RC clearly was trying to trash the character beginning with that maternity crap and the stupid lie.  FV should have been sent packing last year and Varni should have been gone after discussing BH's contract.

[peachmangosteen]

14 hours ago, Darklazr said:

This crap had better not happen, especially to the ONLY adult that has been in those boys lives since they were born.  Elizabeth Imogene Webber is the one that takes care of Cameron, Jacob and Aiden, period. 

Well, let's be real, Audrey takes care of them! But anyway the fact that Liz is their primary and only real parent is precisely why imo it would be both realistic and much better drama if Cam blamed her for him having no male role models/having had a pretty shitty childhood in a lot of ways.

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Am I saying Liz's sons should despise her? No. But I can understand - if these kids ever age - if they do have disgust for her actions as they were made often in selfishness and thoughtlessness, ironically made worse because she was their only so-called solid parent. Because those actions - which she continues to perpetuate closing in on 40 (assuming the character/actor ages are now almost reconciled here) - are now ingrained and almost a shade pathetic now. That whole family would benefit from intense counseling.

Exactly.

But also, like I said before, it would be funnier if instead of being bitter over Liz's fucked up choices, an aged up Cam is actually just bored by/over it. 

Basically, the moral of this story is, they need to SORAS Cam already for fuck's sake!

Edited January 3, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Melgaypet]

It's not fair, but the more stable parent often gets more shit from the kids. They feel safer expressing their anger toward him/her, knowing it won't drive them away.

[HeatLifer]

I'm just curious....if the roles were reversed and Lucky had multiple kids with different moms and then had the best sex ever with Liz's sister...would people expect Liz to continue to raise and support those children? 

[Melgaypet]

Would she have been doing so since they were babies? Then, maybe so.

I probably should stay out it, though. I can't speak coherently about the Deadbeat Lucky thing. Y'all know that fills me with rage.

[HeatLifer]

10 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Would she have been doing so since they were babies? Then, maybe so.

Lucky was lied to, remember. He thought Jake was his in the beginning. So it's a bit of a complicated comparison. And Aiden's father was also up in the air.

I personally don't think Liz would be held to the same standards as Lucky is if he had kids by other women.

[ulkis]

22 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I'm just curious....if the roles were reversed and Lucky had multiple kids with different moms and then had the best sex ever with Liz's sister...would people expect Liz to continue to raise and support those children? 

Probably not, but I'd definitely expect her to keep in touch with her own bio kid at least.

And I think what makes it feel egregious is that Lucky isn't like, "well, I got a job in Texas so I'm going to live down there." No, he's all "darkness darkness I can't take care of my kids I have to go off and wander" which just sounds like an excuse not to take responsibility for his kids. If Liz said, "well, gots to go, the darkness is taking me over" I think people would react "what the hell?" to that.

[Melgaypet]

7 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Lucky was lied to, remember. He thought Jake was his in the beginning. So it's a bit of a complicated comparison. And Aiden's father was also up in the air.

I personally don't think Liz would be held to the same standards as Lucky is if he had kids by other women.

You're right. I was only thinking in this hypothetical that Liz would be their mother figure, not that she might have originally thought/not thought that one or another were actually hers. (Never mind how that would actually work.)

I sometimes wish that Jake and Aiden had never been conceived. I wanted Lucky and Liz to have a bio child (though I wanted a girl), and no doubt some Liason fans wanted the same for their couple, but the way those stories were handled...eesh.

ETA: ...and also what ulkis said.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Melgaypet

[HeatLifer]

5 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Probably not, but I'd definitely expect her to keep in touch with her own bio kid at least.

And I think what makes it feel egregious is that Lucky isn't like, "well, I got a job in Texas so I'm going to live down there." No, he's all "darkness darkness I can't take care of my kids I have to go off and wander" which just sounds like an excuse not to take responsibility for his kids. If Liz said, "well, gots to go, the darkness is taking me over" I think people would react "what the hell?" to that.

I think it sounds like a dude who has emotional and mental problems. Not someone who is living it up somewhere or doesn't want to take care of kids.

Whether fans "buy" it is a whole other story. 

And, actually, Liz herself should get some type of help and/or maybe take some type of "break" because she's dating a serial killer.

[ulkis]

11 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I think it sounds like a dude who has emotional and mental problems. Not someone who is living it up somewhere or doesn't want to take care of kids.

To me it also sounds like someone who doesn't want to take care of his kids. And if that's what the show is going for (that he has emotional problems), at this point someone in his family needs to be like "you have a problem, get the eff back here and deal with it." The show is acting like it's okay/not weird for Lucky to go around and do whatever the heck he's doing.

And to me it just feels false to the character of Lucky. Another thing to be resentful of TG for, because he pushed for the narrative of Lucky being Luke jr once JJ got back.

Liz should definitely get bucketfuls of help.

Edited January 3, 2017 by ulkis

[KerleyQ]

Isn't Lucky actually legally Jake's father?  And he is, legally and biologically, Aiden's father.  And, he was the only father Cam ever knew.  If the situation was reversed (obviously the Jake thing couldn't be exact, but some approximation of Liz being the kid's mother in every way that counts), then I'd think it was just as shitty for Liz to pop up with "oops!  Sorry, darkness!  Gotta go!" and spend years reading rocks in Ireland and meandering to other parts of the world without more than the very occasional Skype call.  

[Melgaypet]

5 minutes ago, ulkis said:

And to me it just feels false to the character of Lucky.

This is the crux of the matter to me. I don't believe for a second that Lucky doesn't care about or would abandon those boys.

For that matter, I also don't believe Liz would be quite so cavalier about the men in her life regarding her boys. Expecting Jakeson to adopt all three? (With no mention of the fact that, as KerleyQ says, Lucky is Jake and Aiden's legal father.) Bringing the rapist serial killer who kidnapped the youngest around? No. Liz has issues, but this is bullshit.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Melgaypet

[LeftPhalange]

If this whole "Lucky is a deadbeat dad" situation is a thing that we're going to go with, can we just say that he and Liez are both shit parents and that Audrey is really the one raising those kids? Because that's what's happening. 

There's zero reasons why Lucky can't parents his kids offscreen in NYC. I don't believe for a second that Laura and Lulu wouldn't be helping out whenever needed or that Jason wouldn't have set up a bank account for DNAJ or that Nik wouldn't have helped her out. This show goes out of its way to make Lucky look like shit while Liez is the struggling single mother. 

[HeatLifer]

1 minute ago, ulkis said:

To me it also sounds like someone who doesn't want to take care of his kids. And if that's what the show is going for, at this point someone in his family needs to be like "you have a problem, get the eff back here and deal with it." The show is acting like it's okay/not weird for Lucky to go around and do whatever the heck he's doing.

And to me it just feels false to the character of Lucky. Another thing to be resentful of TG for, because he pushed for the narrative of Lucky being Luke jr once JJ got back.

Liz should definitely get bucketfuls of help.

We can agree to disagree. I legit never got the impression that Lucky just didn't want to raise children and wanted to escape that to be single and without responsibility. The last time he left, it's almost as if he wanted to give Liz the family she always wanted with Jason.

I'm also resentful of the fact that someone is considered a "good parent" just because they're still on-screen. Yes, Liz is there. But she has brought a serial killer into the home and her kids are always with Audrey. It's the same problem I had with Patrick being considered a "good father." Because he was there? Meanwhile, his child was given to Liz, the babysitter and perfect nurse Sabrina, Mac and Felicia, etc, and he irresponsibly paraded different women around that home. 

[ulkis]

6 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I'm also resentful of the fact that someone is considered a "good parent" just because they're still on-screen. Yes, Liz is there. But she has brought a serial killer into the home and her kids are always with Audrey. It's the same problem I had with Patrick being considered a "good father." Because he was there? Meanwhile, his child was given to Liz, the babysitter and perfect nurse Sabrina, Mac and Felicia, etc, and he irresponsibly paraded different women around that home. 

I mean, I'm definitely not one of the people who have been saying Liz's kids shouldn't have an issue (or several) with her just because she's the main parent, but imo you're probably right, the parent who is there on-screen does get bonus points for that reason. All parents on soaps are shit, at least the ones who actually are front-burner and have stories. (That means you don't count Mac. Sorry Mac!) I think the best parent on this show while I was watching was probably Stefan, and he was a smothering helicopter parent who allowed his kid to think his mother hated him.

But like LeftPhalange pointed out, they could easily say Lucky is off-screen wherever and looking after the kids half the time. Why they don't do this I don't know. Maybe JP/SA haven't even thought to do it.

[Darklazr]

6 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

I'm just curious....if the roles were reversed and Lucky had multiple kids with different moms and then had the best sex ever with Liz's sister...would people expect Liz to continue to raise and support those children? 

Hell, yes.  It is never the child's fault that the parent is an asshat.  Lucky CHOSE to be with Elizabeth after she had baby Cam and he CHOSE to continue to be Jake's father.  Lucky knows Elizabeth's parents abandoned her and Sarah, so why would he do that crap to Cam, Jake and Aiden?!

[dubbel zout]

4 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Lucky was lied to, remember. He thought Jake was his in the beginning. So it's a bit of a complicated comparison. And Aiden's father was also up in the air.

Lucky decided he didn't care about the boys' paternity and would raise them as his own. That's what matters, IMO. 

Edited January 3, 2017 by dubbel zout

[HeatLifer]

16 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Lucky decided he didn't care about the boys' paternity and would raise them as his own. That's what matters, IMO. 

I think what matters is he did so under the impression that Liz wouldn't screw his brother at some point.

I'm just saying, Lucky should have any type of relationship he wants with those boys. He's only obligated to Aiden, though. Anything extra is out of the goodness of his heart. 

My point to all of this is that I don't believe that Liz would be held to the same standards to raise a set of Lucky's children for life.

Edited January 3, 2017 by HeatLifer

[ulkis]

I'll never get why they gave her Cam in the first place. I mean it's kinda good because Cam is not related to half the town unlike the other two but still. Oh Guza. So randomly short-sighted.

[Melgaypet]

21 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Lucky decided he didn't care about the boys' paternity and would raise them as his own. That's what matters, IMO. 

With Jake, yes, (and Cam, though of course he never thought Cam was biologically his, which reminds me of how STUPID it was that he never legally adopted Cam, whom he loved as his own even before Jake was conceived. That's shitty writing - I'm sure we're all shocked.) With Zander dead and Jason being an actual deadbeat dad (sorry, bitter), he had no competition, so to speak. With Aiden he didn't make that choice - naturally not, because as far as everyone involved knew, Nikolas was his father and was acting as such.

Which is nitpicky way of saying that I agree with what I think is your larger point: which is that Lucky is father to all those boys.

 

5 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I'm just saying, Lucky should have any type of relationship he wants with those boys. He's only obligated to Aiden, though. Anything extra is out of the goodness of his heart.

Lucky is Jake's legal father, so I say he has some obligation to him as well. And he is the man Cam knows as "Dad," so unless we're to believe he genuinely doesn't give a shit - which I don't - then, as a decent person, he has an obligation to him. To Cam. Not to Liz.

ETA: This is all theoretical anyway, since in my head, Lucky is an active, involved father and there are regular visits. Also, Franco is dead and Elizabeth is not a crazy person with the worst taste in men.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Melgaypet

[HeatLifer]

14 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Lucky is Jake's legal father, so I say he has some obligation to him as well. And he is the man Cam knows as "Dad," so unless we're to believe he genuinely doesn't give a shit - which I don't - then, as a decent person, he has an obligation to him. To Cam. Not to Liz.

Jason is Jake's dad now. The show doesn't recognize Lucky's part there anymore.

[LeftPhalange]

8 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I think what matters is he did so under the impression that Liz wouldn't screw his brother at some point.

I'm just saying, Lucky should have any type of relationship he wants with those boys. He's only obligated to Aiden, though. Anything extra is out of the goodness of his heart. 

I mean, I think Lucky has an obligation to Cam as well since he raised him since birth even though he knew he wasn't his biologically. DNAJ is more complicated since the writers are now trying to rewrite history. Lucky was always his father but since the Jakeson mess were supposed to believe Jason is sharing custody with Liz, even though Lucky never gave up his rights. But, I'd still probably say he has an obligation to DNAJ. 

The key thing in all of this is that Lucky has an obligation to the kids, not Liz. He can take care of his kids without being Liz's friend or lover or psychotherapist. 

19 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

My point to all of this is that I don't believe that Liz would be held to the same standards to raise a set of Lucky's children for life.

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Liz getting less shit if the roles were reversed and she abandoned Cam/Aiden/DNAJ. I feel like sometimes women on soaps gets more *applause* for raising kids their husband/boyfriend had with other women.

[Melgaypet]

Just now, HeatLifer said:

Jason is Jake's dad now. The show doesn't recognize Lucky's part there anymore.

The show can go fuck itself on this point. Until his "death," Lucky was Jake's dad and Jason was the guy who played motorcycles with him once.

[HeatLifer]

4 minutes ago, LeftPhalange said:

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Liz getting less shit if the roles were reversed and she abandoned Cam/Aiden/DNAJ. I feel like sometimes women on soaps gets more *applause* for raising kids their husband/boyfriend had with other women.

I just don't see a scenario where Lucky screws Sarah or, lol, Hayden, calls either one the best sex he's ever had, and then Liz gets called out for not having a relationship with his kids by other women.

I also don't see a scenario where Lucky has "Jason" in his life and people would still be clamoring for Liz/Lucky.

I'll end my rant on that note, lol.

[ulkis]

6 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I also don't see a scenario where Lucky has "Jason" in his life and people would still be clamoring for Liz/Lucky.

I think people who think Liz deserves most of the credit for raising the kids tend to NOT clamor for Liz/Lucky actually. The clamoring is all from people like meeeee who can ignore everything because Guza never took Liz or Lucky seriously after JJ left. LL24eva k thx bye.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

I'm just saying, Lucky should have any type of relationship he wants with those boys. He's only obligated to Aiden, though. Anything extra is out of the goodness of his heart. 

I agree, but if he says he's going to be their father, he needs to step up and be their father, regardless of what happens between him and Elizabeth. 

As has been mentioned, the exasperating thing about Lucky is that making him a deadbeat was so unnecessary. It was a point of pride for him that he wasn't Luke when it came to family life and parenting. 

Ugh. It's always all or nothing with GH. 

[Melgaypet]

1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

I just don't see a scenario where Lucky screws Sarah or, lol, Hayden, calls either one the best sex he's ever had, and then Liz gets called out for not having a relationship with his kids by other women.

But the thing is, Lucky already had relationships with Cam and Jake when Niz happened. He considered them his sons and they considered him their father. How does Liz getting pregnant by Nikolas change that?

I mean, say Lucky had a kid each by, um, Summer and Maxie. Summer is dead and Maxie had decided to give up her parental rights because she doesn't want children. Let's go with the gender-reversal and call them Ruby and Margot. Liz and Lucky are on-and-off, but as far as these girls know, Elizabeth is the only mother they know. They call her Mom. If Lucky cheats on Liz with Hayden and knocks her up, Elizabeth would rightly dump him, but I would raise my eyebrow if she dumped Ruby and Margot as well.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Melgaypet

[HeatLifer]

5 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

But the thing is, Lucky already had relationships with Cam and Jake when Niz happened. He considered them his sons and they considered him their father. How does Liz getting pregnant by Nikolas change that?

I mean, say Lucky had a kid each by, um, Summer and Maxie. Summer is dead and Maxie had decided to give up her parental rights because she doesn't want children. Let's go with the gender-reversal and call them Ruby and Margot. Liz and Lucky are on-and-off, but as far as these girls know, Elizabeth is the only mother they know. They call her Mom. If Lucky cheats on Liz with Hayden and knocks her up, Elizabeth would rightly dump him, but I would raise my eyebrow if she dumped Ruby and Margot as well.

I get you. And I'm not denying that you would feel that way. I just think a large majority would want Liz far, far away from Lucky and those kids and do her own thing. But this is all hypotheticals. No opinion will ever be validated. It's just my thought process.

[WendyCR72]

8 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

If Lucky cheats on Liz with Hayden and knocks her up, Elizabeth would rightly dump him

The thing is, and this is a slippery slope here, Lucky did sleep with Sarah and Liz fans (many, not all, no generalizing) cheered her for ripping Lucky to shreds even if she and Lucky were in a murky sort of place by then. But a few years later when things got reversed and Liz schtupped Nik, Lucky got dragged for daring to say mean things to her, again by some of the audience.

Was it hypocritical? Maybe. But conversely, if one side can be furious, equal time should be had when the other party has it happen. Actually, maybe Sarah should have been brought up for equal weight, but Nik after Jason and after Liz knowingly married Lucky while eyeing Jason and later going after Nik...it blows that Lucky can't/won't separate the kids from Liz, but at the very same time, being cuckolded not once, but twice, I can see why he'd wrongly want to steer clear altogether for (selfishly) his own sake.

But the boys can/should still have major issues with both Lucky and Liz.

[Darklazr]

5 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

I think what matters is he did so under the impression that Liz wouldn't screw his brother at some point.

I'm just saying, Lucky should have any type of relationship he wants with those boys. He's only obligated to Aiden, though. Anything extra is out of the goodness of his heart. 

My point to all of this is that I don't believe that Liz would be held to the same standards to raise a set of Lucky's children for life.

Please.  Lucky had no problem screwing Sarah behind Elizabeth's back which happened in 2002 and he had no problem having sex with Maxie IN his marital bed and bedding Sam.  Lucky CHOSE to play Daddy to Cam after Zander died and he CHOSE to continue as Jake's father after learning Jason was bio Daddy.  For me, I don't care if Elizabeth banged Luke which just made me ill...blech....  bottom line, Lucky is the adult and he CHOSE to run off and leave two little boys at Christmas in 2011!  What an asshat!  

5 hours ago, ulkis said:

I'll never get why they gave her Cam in the first place. I mean it's kinda good because Cam is not related to half the town unlike the other two but still. Oh Guza. So randomly short-sighted.

Huge grain of salt.  The rumors at the time had Guza wanting a Liason baby and Frons found out and pulled the plug, which is why Elizabeth had to sleep with Zander, again.

[Darklazr]

3 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

I get you. And I'm not denying that you would feel that way. I just think a large majority would want Liz far, far away from Lucky and those kids and do her own thing. But this is all hypotheticals. No opinion will ever be validated. It's just my thought process.

Elizabeth was abandoned as a teen, so I don't ever seeing her abandon ANY child.  She knows the pain of not having parents, which is why she gravitated toward Lucky, Lulu and LnL.

[Darklazr]

3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

The thing is, and this is a slippery slope here, Lucky did sleep with Sarah and Liz fans (many, not all, no generalizing) cheered her for ripping Lucky to shreds even if she and Lucky were in a murky sort of place by then. But a few years later when things got reversed and Liz schtupped Nik, Lucky got dragged for daring to say mean things to her, again by some of the audience.

Was it hypocritical? Maybe. But conversely, if one side can be furious, equal time should be had when the other party has it happen. Actually, maybe Sarah should have been brought up for equal weight, but Nik after Jason and after Liz knowingly married Lucky while eyeing Jason and later going after Nik...it blows that Lucky can't/won't separate the kids from Liz, but at the very same time, being cuckolded not once, but twice, I can see why he'd wrongly want to steer clear altogether for (selfishly) his own sake.

But the boys can/should still have major issues with both Lucky and Liz.

Lucky had no problem marrying Siobhan and still being a parent to Cam and Aiden when he learned his true parentage.  However, Lucky is the one that ran off right before Christmas and left behind a confused Cam and one year old Aiden.  

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

blows that Lucky can't/won't separate the kids from Liz, but at the very same time, being cuckolded not once, but twice, I can see why he'd wrongly want to steer clear altogether for (selfishly) his own sake.

In a way, Lucky is always stuck. When he shouldn't be because Liz is certainly never stuck with him, as she's had numerous love interests/men who she has tried to have become father figures to her children.

[WendyCR72]

5 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

In a way, Lucky is always stuck. When he shouldn't be because Liz is certainly never stuck with him, as she's had numerous love interests/men who she has tried to have become father figures to her children.

Because many IIC are still clinging to the 1990s. For whatever reason, Lucky was forever locked with Liz and not vice versa. Lucky may have married Siobhan, but at that time, Liz was jealous and already wanting Lucky again. That pairing was doomed to fail.

Even Robin, who was heavily associated with Stone, was allowed to find two important loves after him. Lucky...not so much. Apparently, for whatever reason, Lucky is persona non grata unless he has Liz.

[HeatLifer]

22 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Because many IIC are still clinging to the 1990s. For whatever reason, Lucky was forever locked with Liz and not vice versa. Lucky may have married Siobhan, but at that time, Liz was jealous and already wanting Lucky again. That pairing was doomed to fail.

Even Robin, who was heavily associated with Stone, was allowed to find two important loves after him. Lucky...not so much. Apparently, for whatever reason, Lucky is persona non grata unless he has Liz.

Preach.

And now he's obligated to be the "real dad" to her kids when 1) Cam should be able to learn about Zander and know that Lucky was his step-dad, 2) Jason is Jake's father and should act like it, and 3) Aiden should have been Nik's.

Damn, I went off about this today, lol. I apologize. I get in Lucky moods sometimes and need to defend him.

Edited January 4, 2017 by HeatLifer

[Melgaypet]

9 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I get in Lucky moods sometimes and need to defend him.

Dude, I feel you. So do I. Thus:

 

11 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

And now he's obligated to be the "real dad" to her kids when 1) Cam should be able to learn about Zander and know that Lucky was his step-dad, 2) Jason is Jake's father and should act like it, and 3) Aiden should have been Nik's.

1) Cam certainly should learn about Zander, but that doesn't mean Lucky isn't his father, 2) Jason was nothing but a glorified sperm donor to that boy before he came back from the dead, he doesn't get to swoop in to a play daddy now fuck jason hate hate hate Jake forming a relationship with Jason shouldn't erase the already existing one with Lucky, in effect Jake should have two dads, and 3) really, Aiden shouldn't have been born at all.

I think where we differ is in that you see the boys as Liz's children who Lucky is wrongly yoked to and thus unfairly blamed for abandoning, whereas I see them as equally Lucky's children, for whom that abandonment is character assassination.

And that's the last I'll post about this subject today, I swear.

[HeatLifer]

5 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Lucky's children, for whom that abandonment is character assassination.

Well, on this specifically? We differ because I don't think a character who is suffering from emotional problems and most likely should seek help for what he's feeling should be accused of abandonment. It's not like he's having a good time elsewhere.

Edited January 4, 2017 by HeatLifer

[Melgaypet]

Well, I lied. But I'll take my answer to the Spencer thread, since it really has nothing to do with Liz.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Melgaypet

[ulkis]

If Guza and JJ were around together longer Lucky definitely would have gotten more live interests. Last run Lucky was mostly with Siobhan while Liz pulled various pathetic stunts over in the corner by herself.

[UYI]

17 hours ago, ulkis said:

I'll never get why they gave her Cam in the first place. I mean it's kinda good because Cam is not related to half the town unlike the other two but still. Oh Guza. So randomly short-sighted.

Becky was pregnant with her daughter Ella at the time, and I guess since Liz would've been a bit too young when Becky was pregnant with her oldest son Ethan in 2001, they figured the time was right for Becky to have a pregnancy she didn't need to cover up, lol. (Her pregnancy with her son Emerson in 2010 was Liz's pregnancy with Aiden; Becky wasn't pregnant when Liz had Jake.) 

Edited January 4, 2017 by UYI

[Darklazr]

On 1/3/2017 at 7:12 AM, peachmangosteen said:

Well, let's be real, Audrey takes care of them! But anyway the fact that Liz is their primary and only real parent is precisely why imo it would be both realistic and much better drama if Cam blamed her for him having no male role models/having had a pretty shitty childhood in a lot of ways.

Exactly.

But also, like I said before, it would be funnier if instead of being bitter over Liz's fucked up choices, an aged up Cam is actually just bored by/over it. 

Basically, the moral of this story is, they need to SORAS Cam already for fuck's sake!

It is not Elizabeth's fault that the show has managed to get rid of every actor that played Sarah and Steven Lars!  Elizabeth should have had at least one or two permanent family members on the show since RA has retired.

[Darklazr]

22 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

In a way, Lucky is always stuck. When he shouldn't be because Liz is certainly never stuck with him, as she's had numerous love interests/men who she has tried to have become father figures to her children.

There was nothing wrong with LuSam pairing, Lucky and Maxie or Lucky and Siobhan pairings.  I will always feel Elizabeth grew up and moved on when Lucky died in 1999 and his return kept her as a teenager and not an adult.

[Darklazr]

23 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Because many IIC are still clinging to the 1990s. For whatever reason, Lucky was forever locked with Liz and not vice versa. Lucky may have married Siobhan, but at that time, Liz was jealous and already wanting Lucky again. That pairing was doomed to fail.

Even Robin, who was heavily associated with Stone, was allowed to find two important loves after him. Lucky...not so much. Apparently, for whatever reason, Lucky is persona non grata unless he has Liz.

Stone remained dead and Lucky did not.  Otherwise, Robin would have never been able to move on to Jason and Patrick, because fans would have screamed that she belonged with Stone.

Lucky returned from the dead one year later being played by another actor and Elizabeth was stuck with another round of LnL2.  The show was better off leaving Lucky presumed dead until JJ decided to return and we find out that Lucky had been held captive for over a decade.

LnL2 broke up supposedly in 2002 because of issues with the actor that was playing Lucky at the time and his kissing scenes with BH.  

The show clearly is/was wanting LnL2 to follow in LnL's footsteps, but that ship sank a long time ago!

Edited January 5, 2017 by Darklazr

[HeatLifer]

2 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

Stone remained dead and Lucky did not.  Otherwise, Robin would have never been able to move on to Jason and Patrick, because fans would have screamed that she belonged with Stone.

It's not just about death. It's about giving relationships closure and time. Jason never died. But Robin moved past him because they had a clear end to the relationship and separation. That's all it takes. Writers just have to make a choice and stop teasing a pairing so X can move on to something else.

[Darklazr]

22 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Preach.

And now he's obligated to be the "real dad" to her kids when 1) Cam should be able to learn about Zander and know that Lucky was his step-dad, 2) Jason is Jake's father and should act like it, and 3) Aiden should have been Nik's.

Damn, I went off about this today, lol. I apologize. I get in Lucky moods sometimes and need to defend him.

Cam already knows about Zander.

Jason is raising Jake.

Aiden should have NEVER existed in the first place.  I hate that Guza kept writing in BH's pregnancies.

[dubbel zout]

7 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

 I will always feel Elizabeth grew up and moved on when Lucky died in 1999 and his return kept her as a teenager and not an adult.

Lucky and Elizabeth had a really good conversation about this very thing under Guza, but it's been ignored since. Ugh.

2 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

his kissing scenes with BH.  

JY was using tongue and apparently didn't discuss it with BH first.

[HeatLifer]

13 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

There was nothing wrong with LuSam pairing, Lucky and Maxie or Lucky and Siobhan pairings.  I will always feel Elizabeth grew up and moved on when Lucky died in 1999 and his return kept her as a teenager and not an adult.

What I mean by stuck is Lucky has not been able to have a relationship that has had 0 to do with Liz. She's always involved in his relationships. On top of that, he is forever obligated to three kids, two of which are not his and he never should have taken that responsibility.

Edited January 4, 2017 by HeatLifer