S05.E08: Heartland

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Our heroes arrive in the farming outpost that produces flour for bizkits and find it overrun by zombies.

Original air date 2018.11.23

[ottoDbusdriver]

No !!! Not Doc.

Plus 10K's not doing well either -- that stump is not healing up.

So, someone else is making the additive that when combined with plain old flour becomes Z biscuit flour.  It might be brains ?

I'm still not sure what Pandora is up to -- or what her endgame is.

I wish they would just give Addie her eyepatch back, it made her look more badass -- having her hair glued to her right eye all the time just looks dumb.

Doc says they got their message from Kaya, but weren't Doc and George almost to Altura -- and when did Kaya relay a message.  We haven't seen Citizen Z, Kaya, or JZ since they hopped that truck back to Altura (and we haven't seen them since).

[Dizzychickstar]

Interesting interactions between George and Addy. No real loss with Finn-first in the sense that he is now a Talker, but more importantly, I just didn’t buy them as a couple. Maybe because Addy seemed still too consumed with anger and sadness to be open to a romantic relationship on any level. Perhaps it felt like an escape tho. 

Tho the whole bit with Pandora skulking about felt a bit cartoonish, I think it fit the retro vibe of the Wild West the show was channeling tonight. 

I missed Murphy. I did enjoy the George/Warren interactions. Weirdly sweet moment with the Talkers singing Charlie’s song. 

[Ohwell]

7 hours ago, Dizzychickstar said:

Weirdly sweet moment with the Talkers singing Charlie’s song. 

Yeah, that kinda got to me.

 

11 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I wish they would just give Addie her eyepatch back, it made her look more badass -- having her hair glued to her right eye all the time just looks dumb.

...and annoying as hell to look at

 

I didn't understand why Addie was being so snarky with George.  Was she jealous because George is as much a badass as she is?  At least they kind of buried the hatchet at the end but it was not a good look for Addie.

I'm very worried about 10k and his stump that won't heal.  And then there's Doc getting shot by an arrow in the preview.  If either of them dies, I'm out. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I'm very worried about 10k and his stump that won't heal.  And then there's Doc getting shot by an arrow in the preview.  If either of them dies, I'm out.

Same. I don't want to see Doc or 10k as zombies or talkers.

This episode I was almost hoping/expecting Mario Van Peebles' character to pop up since they were in farmland.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Joimiaroxeu

[51Muses]

11 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

No !!! Not Doc.

Plus 10K's not doing well either -- that stump is not healing up.

So, someone else is making the additive that when combined with plain old flour becomes Z biscuit flour.  It might be brains ?

I'm still not sure what Pandora is up to -- or what her endgame is.

I wish they would just give Addie her eyepatch back, it made her look more badass -- having her hair glued to her right eye all the time just looks dumb.

Doc says they got their message from Kaya, but weren't Doc and George almost to Altura -- and when did Kaya relay a message.  We haven't seen Citizen Z, Kaya, or JZ since they hopped that truck back to Altura (and we haven't seen them since).

I read that actors who have to wear an eyepatch have issues with depth perception and balance. Sometime a pin-sized hole in the patch takes care of the problem or no eyepatch at all. 

Pandora 1, OBM 0 : This will change I'm sure. Pandora's henchman was shown with the taser and we heard Pandora planning the stampede. So, this is as good as admitting she has been responsible for the z attacks on the various settlements. It's been planned well too. First, stop the supply of additive (whatever it is), then stop the water that provides water and power to Heartland ( no harvest and no working mill). The First Nation water keepers were spooked by attacks on their dam and become isolationists. Has the dam been overrun like Pacifica and Heartland? For now, it has been put out of the equation by Pandora's machinations. Limbo is safe but for how long? I think Limbo is next on the wipe out target list once more talkers are massed there. I think Pandora's endgame is the elimination of all humans (or turn all humans to talkers). I still think she is working with Estes with Altura becoming the dominant place once all the other settlements have been turned and put into Pandora's control fully. As Warren said "People and talkers are easier to manipulate when they are hungry." Whoever controls the biscuits, controls everything. Dreading and anticipating seeing Pandora sans mask. 

Addie vs George: This reminds of the Old West issues between independent settlements against those who wanted to establish an independent state that would become part of the Union. Pre-George's Dream there existed the settlements and some kind of working peace and trade model. Each settlement has their own rules and way of life. The referendum would change some of that as it emphasizes a central government and shared rules/rights. Addie's point is that the settlements survived and grew strong before the referendum. The aftermath has made the settlements weaker and under threat of extinction. Pandora's mind games are deadlier than her physical tactics. George has always been with a large group and sees the long-term vision. Addie has had to be a lone wolf to survive and her horizon is surviving the immediate future. There is going to be a conflict between them no matter what. Warren is both a leader with vision and a badass survivor. She's the perfect balance to Addie and George.

Brains / Additive: What I took from the episode is that pure brains keep the dead from immediately turning. The secret additive sustains the talkers acting as both food and giving them conscious control. Brains just keep them from turning. The biscuits allow them to be "human." Heartland raises the wheat and mills the flour. They then mix the additive into it. The Water Keepers provide water and power generation but I don't think they make the additive. Where does the additive come from originally?

 

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Same. I don't want to see Doc or 10k as zombies or talkers.

This episode I was almost hoping/expecting Mario Van Peebles' character to pop up since they were in farmland.

10K or Doc in mortal peril or imminent zombie peril always gives me heartburn. The two of them together is dramatic and comedy gold! I think 10K's hand can be merged back with his hand. It's a bit out there but anything is possible. Where's that fanfic reuniting 10K with his hand? There has to be a reason it's been preserved in Altura. 

"We know all about that native American medicine. But we were nowhere near the Grand Canyon!" I wonder if someone from the Grand Canyon episode will be at the dam.  I think the preview scenes with Doc and 10K was a spirit walk type hallucination.  Yes! The sneak peek says Doc must spirit walk to save the Water Keeper's Chief. 

9 hours ago, Dizzychickstar said:

Interesting interactions between George and Addy. No real loss with Finn-first in the sense that he is now a Talker, but more importantly, I just didn’t buy them as a couple. Maybe because Addy seemed still too consumed with anger and sadness to be open to a romantic relationship on any level. Perhaps it felt like an escape tho. 

Tho the whole bit with Pandora skulking about felt a bit cartoonish, I think it fit the retro vibe of the Wild West the show was channeling tonight. 

I missed Murphy. I did enjoy the George/Warren interactions. Weirdly sweet moment with the Talkers singing Charlie’s song. 

I think Addie and Finn are more of the "love the one you're with" couple. I like the idea that the writers gave Addie a backstory as to what she was up to while away from OBM. She had adventures. She met people. It makes her a much more fascinating character.  I hope Anastasia is in the Black Summer Netflix show at some point. 

Charle's song: It sounded like part so of Daisy Bell (Bicycle Built for Two). The computer Hal from 2001: A Space Odyssey sang it as it was turned off after killing off the crew. Here Charlie saves the talkers instead. 

Where is Murphy?: So far this season, the show has downplayed his Zombie abilities. He can't control the Talkers for example. It seems that he, Warren and Addie can still sense Zombie thoughts or emotions. I think Murphy will become a bigger part as the season goes.  OBM has a different vibe when the original crew is together. As much as we want to see the original crew, it could get repetitive. They encounter situation, cause mayhem and destruction before leaving town again. With how widespread the plot is this season, it's a good thing to have an original in each angle of the ongoing plots. 

I've loved Season 5. It's definitely on the rewatch list. 

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, 51Muses said:

Addie vs George: This reminds of the Old West issues between independent settlements against those who wanted to establish an independent state that would become part of the Union. Pre-George's Dream there existed the settlements and some kind of working peace and trade model. Each settlement has their own rules and way of life. The referendum would change some of that as it emphasizes a central government and shared rules/rights. Addie's point is that the settlements survived and grew strong before the referendum. The aftermath has made the settlements weaker and under threat of extinction. Pandora's mind games are deadlier than her physical tactics. George has always been with a large group and sees the long-term vision. Addie has had to be a lone wolf to survive and her horizon is surviving the immediate future. There is going to be a conflict between them no matter what. Warren is both a leader with vision and a badass survivor. She's the perfect balance to Addie and George.

Well then, if Addie doesn't like George's vision, then Addie can just take Finn and leave and live the way she wants to.  

[51Muses]

7 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Well then, if Addie doesn't like George's vision, then Addie can just take Finn and leave and live the way she wants to.  

We can't assume that George's Newmerica becomes a reality. Heartland could opt to not join the combined settlements and remain independent. Your option is also possible. And, we've only seen a bit of George's vision (shared rules, Bill of Rights, Talker equality). There may be aspects to it that we won't like  hence the hostility or apathy of some settlers.

Black Rain changed a lot of things. Real humans are the endangered species. The Talkers are absolutely necessary as a labor and security force. Whoever ends up with the Secret Biscuit Ingredient can influence every settlement going forward.

Studying Addie's map there are many other factions that could enter the story. Here's what's shown:

• Old Frontera
• The Tree Dwellers
• Inlanders
• Pacifica
• Altura
• Mountaineers
• The Cave Dwellers
• Hackerville (not sure of spelling)
• Tundrania (not sure of spelling)
• Waterkeepers
• Rangers 
• Heartland
• Brewers
• New Yuma
• The Bakers
• Islanders
• Portsmouth

Then there are the mountains, the mines, the Unknown Forest, the High Plains and the Lake. Plenty of story possibilities for future episodes and seasons.

[Nashville]

20 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I didn't understand why Addie was being so snarky with George.  Was she jealous because George is as much a badass as she is?  At least they kind of buried the hatchet at the end but it was not a good look for Addie.

My impression over the past 2-3 episodes was Addie viewed George’s idealism as an unrealistic Pollyanna viewpoint which could get people killed in the real world  - and in the case of Dante, at least, it appears Addie was right on the mark.

[rmontro]

20 hours ago, 51Muses said:

Charle's song: It sounded like part so of Daisy Bell (Bicycle Built for Two). The computer Hal from 2001: A Space Odyssey sang it as it was turned off after killing off the crew. Here Charlie saves the talkers instead. 

Yeah, that was definitely a 2001:  A Space Odyssey reference.  Pretty good one, too.  I also liked the way the talkers sang the song after Charlie died.

Seems odd that Charlie was able to stay alive down to the "last bite" though.  Especially when you consider most Z's are dispatched with pretty much any trauma to the brain whatsoever.

[Ohwell]

12 hours ago, 51Muses said:

We can't assume that George's Newmerica becomes a reality. Heartland could opt to not join the combined settlements and remain independent. Your option is also possible. And, we've only seen a bit of George's vision (shared rules, Bill of Rights, Talker equality). There may be aspects to it that we won't like  hence the hostility or apathy of some settlers.

Black Rain changed a lot of things. Real humans are the endangered species. The Talkers are absolutely necessary as a labor and security force. Whoever ends up with the Secret Biscuit Ingredient can influence every settlement going forward.

Studying Addie's map there are many other factions that could enter the story. Here's what's shown:

• Old Frontera
• The Tree Dwellers
• Inlanders
• Pacifica
• Altura
• Mountaineers
• The Cave Dwellers
• Hackerville (not sure of spelling)
• Tundrania (not sure of spelling)
• Waterkeepers
• Rangers 
• Heartland
• Brewers
• New Yuma
• The Bakers
• Islanders
• Portsmouth

Then there are the mountains, the mines, the Unknown Forest, the High Plains and the Lake. Plenty of story possibilities for future episodes and seasons.

Well, as long as you and the other writers (I'm assuming you're connected somehow with the show because, otherwise, I don't know how anyone would know all this shit in such detail unless there's a Z-book somewhere) don't show Warren having any more visions, I'll keep watching the show.*

*Assuming Doc and 10k don't die. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Ohwell

[PrincessPurrsALot]

6 hours ago, rmontro said:

Yeah, that was definitely a 2001:  A Space Odyssey reference.  Pretty good one, too.  I also liked the way the talkers sang the song after Charlie died.

Seems odd that Charlie was able to stay alive down to the "last bite" though.  Especially when you consider most Z's are dispatched with pretty much any trauma to the brain whatsoever.

I fanwanked this to positive thinking on Charlie's part.  No one would be alive and talking with so little brain left.  It was worth it for the story and the talkers singing the song.  

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

I fanwanked this to positive thinking on Charlie's part.  No one would be alive and talking with so little brain left.  It was worth it for the story and the talkers singing the song.  

It's one example of how this show doesn't take itself too seriously.  Which is fine with me.  I probably wouldn't be watching if it did.

[jhlipton]

On 11/24/2018 at 12:14 AM, Dizzychickstar said:

Tho the whole bit with Pandora skulking about felt a bit cartoonish, I think it fit the retro vibe of the Wild West the show was channeling tonight. 

Weirdly sweet moment with the Talkers singing Charlie’s song. 

On 11/24/2018 at 10:00 AM, 51Muses said:

Charle's song: It sounded like part so of Daisy Bell (Bicycle Built for Two). The computer Hal from 2001: A Space Odyssey sang it as it was turned off after killing off the crew. Here Charlie saves the talkers instead. 

It defied reason that not one of the Altunites saw and recognized her.  But this show and reason are like fish and bicycle.

Charlie's song was definitely an homage to 2001.  Both Charlie and Hal started singing as bits of their conscience was "turned off".

[BasilSeal]

On 11/25/2018 at 3:28 PM, Ohwell said:

(I'm assuming you're connected somehow with the show because, otherwise, I don't know how anyone would know all this shit in such detail unless there's a Z-book somewhere)

I'm guessing they freeze framed a scene where Addy gets a map out that shows Newmerica

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 11/24/2018 at 10:20 PM, 51Muses said:

Studying Addie's map there are many other factions that could enter the story. Here's what's shown:

• Old Frontera
• The Tree Dwellers
• Inlanders
• Pacifica
• Altura
• Mountaineers
• The Cave Dwellers
• Hackerville (not sure of spelling)
• Tundrania (not sure of spelling)
• Waterkeepers
• Rangers 
• Heartland
• Brewers
• New Yuma
• The Bakers
• Islanders
• Portsmouth

Then there are the mountains, the mines, the Unknown Forest, the High Plains and the Lake. Plenty of story possibilities for future episodes and seasons.

North of New Yuma on Addie's map there's a town called '420'.

Interesting that Limbo is not labeled on the map, but appears to be located between Heartland and the Bakers.

I think that Tundrania might actually be Tundraria.

Don't they have any maps pre-Z-pocalypse -- because then that unknown forest would likely have a name.

[Jordan61]

I'm guessing if either 10K or Doc die they'll still be around as Talkers.

Addie & Finn made me miss Mac.

"We were nowhere near the Grand Canyon", and George's reaction "...okay." That's one of my favorite episodes, partly because I have a script signed by the cast. :)

[Ohwell]

11 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

I'm guessing they freeze framed a scene where Addy gets a map out that shows Newmerica

It's not just that one particular incident though.

[Jordan61]

2 hours ago, 17wheatthins said:

So jealous! :-)

I got it when I went to the premiere last year (I live in Spokane and the tickets were only like $20). I didn't see anything about a premiere this year so I don't even know if they had one.

[LaylaGirl]

There was another movie reference as well. The scene where Addy told Finn to unbutton his shirt and touched him with her Z-Wacker was lifted almost directly from the scene in "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" where Sundance surprises Etta Place in her bedroom. In the scene Sundance touches her with his gun. The viewer does not realize she knows him until she hugs him. Finn even called Addy "Sundance."

Reader from back in the TWOP days - first time poster. One of the few times I actually noticed something before anyone else posted about it!

[LaylaGirl]

Thanks 17Wheatthins. I was quite young the first time I saw the movie, and for some reason that scene made quite the impression on me!

[rmontro]

On 11/29/2018 at 2:54 PM, LaylaGirl said:

There was another movie reference as well. The scene where Addy told Finn to unbutton his shirt and touched him with her Z-Wacker was lifted almost directly from the scene in "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" where Sundance surprises Etta Place in her bedroom. In the scene Sundance touches her with his gun. The viewer does not realize she knows him until she hugs him. Finn even called Addy "Sundance."

Yeah, nice catch LaylaGirl.  I've seen that movie countless times, but I didn't catch the reference.