The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[AyChihuahua]

TVLine's review has a lot of negative comments. I think we should bomb that board with comments about the opening montage removing Diggle and Felicity.

[tv echo]

I like this part of the Vulture review (esp. the call-back to Oliver's words in the last sentence):

Speaking of serious, after Felicity saves Ray’s life by injecting him with the nanotechnology, Ray tells Felicity that he loves her. Felicity, in return … offers him hospital Jell-O, and practically runs from his room. Oof. If she doesn’t love Ray after he saves Felicity’s life and almost dies himself, then you know it’s a doomed relationship. (Besides, Oliver has saved her life, like, sooo many times. Nice try, Ray.) Even Mama Smoak is onto Felicity’s true feelings. When Mama Smoak guesses out of nowhere that Felicity loves Oliver, I’m skeptical, since she barely saw Oliver last time she was in Starling City. Felicity is there with me: “You met him, for like, ten seconds,” to which her mom replies, “I knew it in five.” Mic drop! Okay, I’m a believer, Mama Smoak. Felicity has to make a choice between Ray, “a Disney prince” who knows every episode of all 34 seasons of Dr. Who, and Oliver, who is not only unavailable, but about to get arrested. There is, of course, no choice to make.

 

Of course, MG would tweet this glowing episode review by AV Club of "Public Enemies"...

Marc Guggenheim @mguggenheim  ·  13h 13 hours ago
"If “Public Enemy” isn’t the best episode Arrow has ever done, it’s damn close." Arrow: “Public Enemy” http://www.avclub.com/r/217413tsd

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim

Edited April 2, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Robert Dougherty's review of 3x18 (refers to Felicity as MG's "precious future spinoff cash cow"!)...

 

Arrow 'Public Enemy' Review
By Robert Dougherty April 02, 2015 01:01PM EDT
http://www.themovienetwork.com/review/arrow-public-enemy-review

I myself just went on a long plea about how Donna’s visit really needs to make Felicity think twice about Ray and Oliver, and really get into her head about what is really driving her decisions lately – and the deep seated abandonment fears her father gave birth to that may have a major part in it. But despite Donna’s swoon worthy account of what she saw when Felicity and Oliver were together, her final line about Felicity needing to make a choice is far more clunky and way too on the nose.

 

This is nothing we didn’t already know – when what Felicity really needs is a deeper plot and conversations that tells us things we didn’t know and really need to know, so that she’ll stop taking a growing backlash and the brunt of the show’s current idiocy. Between that and Stephen Amell's constant heart eyes for Felicity, the balance between truly understanding Oliver and Felicity's hearts has no balance at all, and doing the hard work of correcting that on Felicity's side should have been a top priority with Donna's visit. Unfortunately, Arrow may have already filled up its quota on episodes like that for her in Donna’s first appearance.

 

A lot of fans were upset at Ray last week for needing Oliver to tell him basic things about trusting Felicity, and that he couldn’t figure that out on his own. Sadly, Donna telling Felicity basic things about her being in love with Oliver, without letting her come to these things and the need to make a choice on her own, isn’t that far removed from the same formula. Again, this is why Felicity’s mindset, fears, deeper issues and doubts that anyone will truly think she’s worth staying and fighting for needed to be explored, both now and in so many episodes beforehand.

Edited April 2, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Matt D. Wilson's Pointed Commentary on 3x18 at Comics Alliance...

 

‘Arrow’ Season 3 Recap, Episode 18: ‘Public Enemy’
by Matt D. Wilson April 2, 2015 9:00 AM
http://comicsalliance.com/arrow-season-3-recap-episode-18-public-enemy/

Somehow, Laurel manages to get Team Arrow ten minutes with Ollie in an interrogation room, despite warrants for all their arrests also being out. Captain Lance even runs into them in the hallway and lets them off with a stern talking-to. It's weird.

In the interrogation room, the team tries to talk Ollie out of sacrificing himself (yet again; has this guy got a messiah complex or what?), but Ollie says this is the way it's got to go and sends them away. "You have no idea how powerful the truth can be," he says.
*  *  *
Apparently she can, because the doc tells her in the hallway that the clot has completely disappeared. He asks if she can explain it, but the conversation just kind of trails off, and the doctor seems to drop this gross violation of medical ethics.
*  *  *
[Mei] thanks him and says, "You have no idea how powerful the truth can be," making this the second week in a row that a direct quote from the flashbacks had a direct impact on the A plot. It's a tad on-the-nose.
*  *  *
An ad for the Netflix Daredevil series came on during one of the commercial breaks, and it was pretty cool to see some cross promotion for Marvel's Not Batman TV show during DC's Not Batman TV show.
*  *  *
Hey, I even liked the hospital stuff, even though everything with Ray Palmer feels like it's from a different show. I still really like the relationship between Smoak and her mom. They make a good team.

Edited April 2, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow 3x18 Olicity Heart-to-Heart: Mama Knows Best
MARILYN_PORTER  THU APR 2 2015 11:45AM
http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2015/04/arrow-season-3-episode-18-olicity-heart-to-heart-mama-knows-best

Lance is being irrational. Why would the Arrow suddenly revert to killing when he’s spent two years being a hero? At the end of the day, this is just a man who has had his heart broken and he’s thinking with his heart, not his head.  I feel simultaneously so sorry for his pain and so frustrated with his closed-off thinking.
*  *  *
The team converges on Dig’s apartment, lead by Felicity.  She’s clearly concerned for Oliver and their mutual concern for each other this episode is slowly killing me with cuteness.  In the beginning we had him clearly worrying about her when he learned Ray was in the hospital, then again here he asks after Ray but she deflects her concern onto him.  These two are just stupid for each other and I’m going to die if they don’t do something about it soon.
*  *  *
They come to visit him while he’s locked up in interrogation and Felicity is clearly upset by Oliver’s sacrifice.  He insists this is the best way he can save everyone but his eyes are specifically on Felicity.

Edited April 2, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Very positive review of 3x18 by Esther Inglis-Arkell at io9...

 

The Most Thrilling Team-Ups From Last Night's Arrow
Esther Inglis-Arkell  4/02/15 10:54am
http://io9.com/the-most-thrilling-team-ups-from-last-nights-arrow-1695188150

Donna isn’t just there for comic relief. She does some useful things, both for Felicity and for the plot. For the plot, she drops many hints that Felicity’s dad was a techie, and not a good techie. Felicity she forces into two realizations: Felicity has to take a chance and inject nanotech into Ray, and then she has to drop Ray like she’s a mobster and he’s the body a bookie who tried to skim too much off her profits. Because she’s in love with Oliver. Because duh.

Edited April 2, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

JustAboutWrite's lengthy but interesting review of 3x18 (link was posted in a tweet by Jenny Raftery)...

 

Arrow 3x18 "Public Enemy" (The Blame Game)
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2015/04/arrow-3x18-public-enemy-blame-game.html?m=1

... The problem, of course, is that Oliver likes to make choices by himself. On the island, he had to think about how to survive. That was the only thing he could think about. If he was distracted, mentally or emotionally or physically, he would die. And I think that a lot of Oliver's current behavior has to do with the fact that he was alone for so long and his survival instinct has been so prominent that he forgets he's a part of a team. He forgets, often times, that it is TEAM Arrow, not Team Oliver.

 

...  Oliver Queen will always -- ALWAYS -- protect his own. Those aren't where the problems originate. The problems originate when Oliver forgets that other people have free will, too. So while he wants to protect them -- these people he loves most in the world -- he also fails, often, to realize that protecting someone also means understanding. And understanding means listening, which is something Oliver isn't great at all the time, let's be honest.
*  *  *
... Felicity cares about Ray. Don't mistake anything I said above: she really does care about him. If she didn't, she would have convinced him to wait for surgery or not utilize the experimental treatment. Caring about people requires bravery, as Donna Smoak tells Felicity earlier in the episode. But love... love requires sacrifice. It requires commitment. And when Felicity confesses to her mother that Ray professed his love and she couldn't return the favor, Donna Smoak accurately pinpoints the problem: she's not in love with Ray; she's in love with Oliver.
*  *  *
I know what I want from the Oliver/Felicity relationship and it's funny because it has nothing to do with their relationship and everything to do with their individual characters. I want Oliver to stop trying to do life on his own. I want him to stop blaming himself and start thinking of life and relationships as teamwork. I want him to want Felicity as a partner in every sense of the word. I want him to treat her like one, not handle her with kid gloves or keep her at a distance. I want Felicity to tell Oliver how she feels about him and then I want her to stubbornly declare war: he must fight for her back if they have any hope of having a relationship. But I need Felicity to tell Oliver how she feels because right now, he doesn't really know. And she doesn't really know. All they're doing is pushing against one another until they're further and further apart.
*  *  *
So where does that leave us in "Public Enemy"? After the dust settles from the blame game and we examine our relationships, we're left with this inevitable truth: we can sit and blame ourselves for the things that have happened to us. Or we can fight to change our destinies. We can fight to secure our own happy endings. The only lingering question is... how do you fight against someone who seems to be pulling all of your strings?

 

Posted at https://twitter.com/rafteryish ...

Jenny Raftery @rafteryish  ·  5h 5 hours ago

"MVP for this episode is Paul Blackthorne." Yes to this, Jenn! Also, now can't stop thinking about Oliver as a horse. http://bit.ly/19LVQ7Z

 

Posted at https://twitter.com/jbuffyangel ...

Jen retweeted
Jenny Raftery @rafteryish  ·  1h 1 hour ago
@olicityplease @jbuffyangel You guys, Felicity is using Oliver as her salmon ladder.  Just saying.

Edited April 2, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

We Minored In Film's review of 3x18 - Kelly Konda's criticisms are always worth reading...

 

ARROW’S “PUBLIC ENEMY” (S3,EP18) & THE NOT-SO-MAGIC RESET BUTTON ENDING
Posted on April 2, 2015 by Kelly Konda
http://weminoredinfilm.com/2015/04/02/arrows-public-enemy-s3ep18-the-not-so-magic-reset-button-ending/

This all recalls “Over the Edge,” an episode of The New Batman Adventures in which Commissioner Gordon only learns that his daughter Barbara is Batgirl after she falls to her death from a rooftop during a fight with the Scarecrow. Immensely hurt that his supposed ally Batman would put his daughter in such danger, Gordon uses absolutely everything at his disposal to bring Batman to justice, discovering and broadcasting his secret identity and arresting Alfred and Dick “Nightwing” Grayson along the way. By the end, Barbara wakes up, revealing everything had simply been a Scarecrow fear toxin-induced dream.

 

It’s that thing again about shows wanting to revert back to their default setting, and what you think about “Public Enemy” might have a lot to do with how much you think Arrow will simply revert back to business as normal. After all, this is a show of big ideas and stunning cliffhangers which very rarely pay off as much as you want, either due to their creative reach exceeding their budgetary grasp or simply because they can’t get out of their own way.  When Oliver appeared to die in the mid-season finale, fans want insane, yet Oliver was back to normal three episodes later, his recovery not magical or mystical in nature, lazily chalked up to “his will to live.” “Public Enemy” used “the newscaster lady” (as Diggle humorously called her) to remind us Oliver was previously accused and found innocent in the cop’s on-going game of “Who is the Arrow?” thus re-introducing a legal loophole. We never saw Oliver sign any kind of confession, and though they have solid evidence against the Arrow in the recent murders the cops don’t appear to have any evidence connecting it to Oliver.  Then it all ended with Roy taking the fall for Oliver, crucially showing up in the green hood and brandishing the signature bow and arrow whereas Oliver had none of that incriminating evidence on him when he peacefully walked into the police precinct to turn himself in.
*  *  *
In theory, “Public Enemy” was amazing, and as I argued in my last review I am trying really hard to just embrace the mess that is Arrow, remembering how to merely sit back and enjoy the show. However, all I kept seeing in “Public Enemy” were things that didn’t make sense....
*  *  *
Perhaps more damning than all of that, has the show actually done enough to make us believe and understand why exactly Ra’s al Ghul is so determined that Oliver become his replacement? If the second half of last season could be summarized as “She Just Wasn’t That Into You” to mock Slade Wilson’s obsession with Shado, might the latter half of the current season be written off as “Dude, Oliver’s just not that into you. Take a hint, Ra’s.”  Or maybe, “Oliver wasn’t nearly as impressive in that mountaintop fight as you seem to think he was.”  Or, “You seriously don’t have any other worthy candidates?  What about Maseo?” It is at least a welcome departure from the mad men with bombs and super soldiers of season’s past, but if you aren’t fully on board with Ghul’s decision to court Oliver doesn’t it kind of undercut everything that’s being done in its name, such as trying to turn Starling City against the Arrow?

Edited April 2, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

If you're fed up with Ray Palmer and this show, then you'll want to read this belated review of 3x17 "Suicidal Tendencies" by We Watch for the Plot (the headline says it all)...

 

I, Raybot
April 1, 2015
https://wewatchfortheplot.wordpress.com/

I’m not happy with Arrow, and if you’ve been reading along, I think you’re aware of that. I keep trying to write about it, but it’s exhausting to be this angry over a TV show. It’s just a TV show, right? I mean, now it is. It used to be well-crafted and a real genre-buster, but now, it’s not even formulaic. It’s really not even basic. It’s bad. And no one is willing to listen to us.
*  *  *
... But they chose to saddle Felicity with the worst possible character in the history of television* when they brought in Ray Palmer, and all he’s done is dragged down her character and sucked the life out of her.

 

I’ve covered Ray’s stalking, his manipulating, his general air of entitlement, and I think I’ve even mentioned that I think he’s dead behind the eyes. He carries himself like he’s handsome and suave but he actually seems like one of those humanoid robots that knows it’s supposed to feel emotions and does its best to manufacture them, but they’re always a little off and ultimately they just creep you out. So we end up watching scene after scene where Felicity should be acting out the plot to I, Robot and kicking Ray in the face Will Smith-style, but instead she’s actually flattered, touched, and flirty with the robot. The more she submits to his programming, the creepier and more upsetting it gets for the fans. In the most recent episode, “Suicidal Tendencies,” she even let him shame her for keeping Oliver’s big secret from him, like she somehow owes Ray her allegiance. She doesn’t. He’s never been completely forthcoming with her, and she’s never revealed Oliver’s secret to anyone unless Oliver’s life was in danger, so why would she owe Ray that truth? Why does he think he’s entitled to it?

 

He does the same thing to Laurel later in the interrogation room, when he’s trying to tell her that Oliver is the Arrow. Laurel isn’t as susceptible to Ray, possibly she can hear the whirring of his machinery in the quiet of the interrogation room, and when she points out that Oliver was arrested under the same suspicion two years ago, Ray isn’t stymied — he immediately claims that Laurel is similarly compromised because of her past with Oliver. Laurel had demonstrated composure and professionalism with Ray during this conversation, but his first instinct was to treat her like an irrational woman, and he did it all with that smarmy look on his face that we are supposed to find — charming? Endearing? Handsome? (These are times where I find myself wondering, yet again, how differently this all would play out if they’d cast a better actor in this role.)

 

To add insult to injury, Ray shows up for his big fight with Oliver and immediately turns it into some kind of contest over Felicity. Oliver’s literally standing there in leathers with just a bow and arrows as his defense, Ray is standing a head taller than him dressed in metal and looking like a freaking idiot, and he’s crowing “show Felicity what kind of man you really are!” Like Felicity doesn’t know, after three years. Like Oliver’s even worried about Felicity’s opinion. Like Oliver’s not preoccupied with clearing his name, finding and fighting R’as al Ghul, and not letting Felicity’s boyfriend trip over his metal feet and kill himself on accident. This is a fight for survival for Oliver, just like it always has been, but it’s just a game to Ray — and the writers don’t seem to realize that that’s the message they’re sending about Felicity, too. She’s just a game for him as well.
*  *  *
Honestly, the writers should’ve course-corrected around the time Oliver fell off that mountain and decided to make Ray Palmer a villain. Screw canon. ATOM is dumb anyway, and Ray Palmer is no Tony Stark....
*  *  *
...  The same Felicity that stands up to Oliver time and time again was basically cowering in Ray’s self-righteous indignation. I’m starting to wonder if they hired a writer who hates Felicity.

 

Oh, and there's this...

"You can’t tell me that second gif doesn’t look like a robot that is searching its programming for an appropriate response to a threat."

Edited April 2, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Entertainment Weekly's recap of 3x18 (posted just because it's EW) - like the WeMinoredInFilm review, EW also notes the similarity to the Batman "Over the Edge" episode...

 

'Public Enemies'  Arrow Ep. 18 | Aired Apr 01
BY CHANCELLOR AGARD • Posted April 1 2015 — 11:27 PM EDT
http://www.ew.com/recap/arrow-season-3-episode-18

[kismet]

JBuffyAngel released her recap/review of 318. It was good, not her best or her worst. Pretty on par. Decent stuff about the QL/OQ relationship. She also got distracted by the sizzle preview release mid-review, so she apologized that this wasn't her best. Apparently the heat from the reel did spread rather quickly throughout the fandom and caught a lot of us by surprise.

 

But she does the prayer circle for Roy. Man #SaveRoy is really catching on. And I am all in for that mission. :)

 

http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/115351506818/stand-by-me-public-enemy-arrow-3x18-review

[tv echo]

From that jbuffyangel review...

 

More light symbolism?

 

He looks directly at Felicity when he says “including yours.” Ra’s Al Ghul knows Oliver’s weak point. Ray Palmer is in the hospital because he was shot with an arrow. An arrow intended for Felicity. Maseo shot at Felicity. Do not think for one second that is lost on Oliver. Jail, a lifetime in a hole, is a small sacrifice to ensure her safety.  It’s why Oliver tells her to stop worrying. He’s been through much worse than jail and he can survive it, but losing Felicity is unfathomable to Oliver. He won’t survive that.

I admit I didn't catch this nuance.

[tv echo]

Laura Hurley's review of 3x18 "Public Enemy" (she liked it, but still had valid criticisms)...

 

Arrow S03E18: What worked, what didn't, and what needs to happen next
Laura Hurley   April 2, 2015 4:58 PM MST
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s03e18-what-worked-what-didn-t-and-what-needs-to-happen-next

...The young man who had begun the season as a fun-sized archer in red interning for Team Arrow has accomplished what few others in this universe have managed and unquestionably earned his hero status. The self-proclaimed heroes Black Canary and ATOM need to take a break from their histrionics and look at sidekick Arsenal as an example of how to deserve a mask.
*  *  *
Team Arrow did not get to spend a whole lot of time together in “Public Enemy.” With Oliver on the run and Felicity marooned over on Palmer Island, the episode only featured a few scenes of the group together. The best was undoubtedly the reunion in the precinct. The few moments of intimacy were exactly what were needed in the midst of all of the chaos, and the fact that these four people truly do love each other was shown rather than told for the first time in far too long. Oliver and Diggle related to one another as equals. Oliver and Roy just wanted to help each other through the turmoil. Oliver and Felicity…well, Oliver and Felicity get their own paragraph.

 

Although Oliver and Felicity didn’t share much screentime in “Public Enemy,” their relationship was a central theme as Felicity found her fairytale relationship with Ray rather inconveniently paling in comparison to her complicated “maybe” with Oliver. Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards made the most of their moments, seizing the opportunity in the precinct reunion to turn up the heat in a big way. The expression on her face as Oliver gazed into her eyes and admitted to turning himself in for the sakes of those he cares about gave the impression that Felicity was seriously considering swooping down and planting a big fat kiss on him. It was neither the time nor the place for anybody to be thrown up against the wall in an impassioned embrace – not that matchmaker Diggle would have objected – and Felicity is hardly the type to go in for infidelity, but the chemistry between the two characters was so palpable that the idea of Felicity ignoring everything and kissing him while Oliver dislocates his thumbs out of the handcuffs to travel his lady love to the nearest flat surface did not feel ludicrous.
*  *  *
For his part, Stephen Amell continues to impress, bringing depth to Flashback Ollie that is entirely separate from the nuances of present-day Oliver. He was particularly effective opposite Paul Blackthorne in their van confrontation, refusing to defend himself against Quentin’s accusations with such a hollow look in his eyes that his too-often ignored post-traumatic stress asserted itself to a subtle yet heartbreaking degree.
*  *  *
Unfortunately, Laurel’s usefulness as an insider in the justice system was somewhat negated in “Public Enemy” by the passivity with which she regarded the advantages of her position for Team Arrow. Her continued failure to take the blame for keeping the secret of Sara’s death rankles in a way that could easily be fixed by a line or two of remorseful dialogue, and her failure to call or even text anybody on Team Arrow to warn of the incoming raids was ridiculous. Yes, Quentin told her that the teams were already on their way to apprehend Oliver, but a head start would have helped.

 

Laurel was not the only frustrating Lance out and about in “Public Enemy.” Quentin can be excused for doing his job by the letter of the law, but blaming Oliver for literally everything that has gone wrong for the Lances and Starling City over the past eight years was overkill....
*  *  *
...  Goofy Ray grinning his way through explaining medical nanotechnology that is apparently groundbreaking and yet has been wasting away in his laboratory while he plays at RoboCop may ultimately work for his upcoming spinoff, but he and his arc were out of place in “Public Enemy.”
*  *  *
The confession of love from Ray rang patently false in light of his assertion last week that he could no longer trust her or her judgment. Additionally, Ray’s fiancée – the woman with whom he intended to spend the rest of his life and for whose sake he felt guilty about kissing Felicity – died only ten months ago. Unless his behavior is meant to be seen as unhealthy for both himself and Felicity, the writers have found yet another way to unintentionally sabotage the believability of an already inorganic romance.

Edited April 3, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

For comics fans...

 

Arrow Season 3, Episode 18 Watch: DCU Connections And Easter Eggs
BY JESSE CARP  YESTERDAY
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Arrow-Season-3-Episode-18-Watch-DCU-Connections-Easter-Eggs-71067.html

[tv echo]

3x18 review by Forbes contributor, Erik Kain...

 

'Arrow' Season 3, Episode 18 Review: Public Enemy
Erik Kain  4/02/2015 @ 3:21PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/04/02/arrow-season-3-episode-18-review-public-enemy/

But by the second season, it was Laurel who’d become anti-Arrow, and her father who was acting reasonably. Now the pendulum has swung once again, and I’m having a really hard time buying it. Captain Lance is acting like a petulant child. His little speech to Oliver about how the Arrow is a “villain” isn’t just silly, it’s downright foolish. It requires leaps in logic that even a grieving, angry father probably wouldn’t make at this point.

 

For instance, if Oliver had died on the island it’s entirely possible Sara also would have died on the island. If Oliver had died on the island, Malcolm Merlyn’s “undertaking” would have gone off without a hitch and countless thousands would have died. Though yeah, maybe Tommy would have survived. It’s stupid. It’s so painfully stupid, it’s hard for me to believe the writers would have a grown man using this type of logic.
*  *  *
I do think that maybe Oliver should just accept the Demon Head’s offer and become Ra’s al Ghul. Then he can pull a Dread Pirate Roberts and just ditch the gig and go get the girl. It would solve a lot of problems, and he could get the League to follow his orders long enough to make some big organizational changes.
*  *  *
Ultimately, I’m dying to find out what happens after yet another great cliff-hanger. Yes, I’m annoyed to death with Captain Lance, and yes I think the season is overall weaker than the previous two. But it’s still great superhero TV and I’m still completely hooked. I just want characters, including “I can’t date you for no good reason” Oliver Queen, to act a little more sensibly. Then all will be well.

Edited April 3, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The always amusing tag team of Mordechai & Corrina discuss 3x18 (unfortunately, they like Ray with Felicity - but still, their comments are fun to read and they make some good points)...

 

Same Geek Channel Review ‘Arrow’ Episode 318 “Public Enemy”
Posted on 3 April, 2015 by Mordechai Luchins
http://geekdad.com/2015/04/arrow-318/

Corrina: I liked Felicity’s mom! Go, Charlotte Ross. I could even see the personality resemblance a little bit last night between mother and daughter. Poor Ray. Stupid romance twist just when I thought Felicity had sense. But she hasn’t done much lately other than angst over Ray or Oliver.

 

STOP WRITING ROMANCE. YOU’RE AWFUL AT IT, TEAM ARROW/FLASH WRITERS.
*  *  *
Corrina: Oh, if only Ollie knew a superhacker who could access cameras/sound feed and might be able to record Ra’s presence and threats in Starling City–especially since Oliver knows he’s walking into a trap at some point. Too bad said non-existent superhero can’t then upload the video of Ra’s claiming credit for the murders to the interwebs so it would go viral and support Ollie’s assertion of innocence.

 

In other words, the plotting needs work. I should be surprised and excited by plot twists, not sitting back and thinking “wow, Ollie’s being very stupid.”
*  *  *
Corrina: Shado’s sister just reminded me that not only was last season’s plot based on a woman in the fridge but so is this season’s overall plot. There were better uses for Sara and Shado than this.
*  *  *
Mordechai: I think Amell is excellent as Oliver Queen because he’s supposed to basically have that one emotional intensity setting – but Katie Cassidy just doesn’t play off it well. Pity she’s not slated for the spin-off as well.
*  *  *
The thing is, so much of this show is solid. If we didn’t enjoy it on some level, we wouldn’t be watching it (see: Gotham). But the frustrating level of Plot-Induced Stupidity and Manufactured Drama is, well, frustrating at times.

Edited April 3, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

'Arrow' Recap: 10 Shocking Moments From 'Public Enemy'
Adam Bellotto  April 2nd, 2015 10:07am EDT
http://www.starpulse.com/news/Adam_Bellotto/2015/04/02/arrow-recap-10-shocking-moments-from-p

... Ray has nanotech. That can cure a deadly blood clot in seconds. Couldn't that kind of power save far more lives than flying armor that shoots lasers? We get that lasers are cool, Ray, but you seem to be shelving a legit cure for all the world's diseases to spend more time zapping petty thugs.
*  *  *
Over the last couple episodes, Lance has been shifting from "slightly gruff, heart of gold" to "very gruff, heart of scorched rage." And the last straw was knowing the Arrow's identity... and still going after him, knowing the damage it would do to Laurel, Thea and everyone else.
*  *  *
Question: what exactly was the point of meeting Shado's twin sister? ... it seemed like the entire reason for Mei's existence was to set up the line, "you have no idea how powerful the truth can be." Because this was a whole episode about Oliver's truths coming to light. Get it?

Edited April 3, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow: 3×18 Review – Public Enemy
By: Alisha Bjorklund 15 hours ago 
http://www.threeifbyspace.net/2015/04/arrow-3x18-review-public-enemy/

... Donna, in all her motherly wisdom, recognized Felicity’s love for Oliver in the first five seconds of seeing them together. And since Felicity couldn’t say “I love you” back to Ray, Donna had the wisdom to say “you have to make a choice.”

 

Felicity has to either stay with Ray, who she’s happy with but doesn’t love, or take a risk on a love that may never come to fruition. That boils down to figuring out if her love for Oliver is enough (reciprocated or not). A hard decision, indeed. The last few episodes have made it clear that Felicity needs Oliver in her life. She just can’t quite figure out if loving him (and only him) is worth dealing with Oliver’s pigheaded decisions to push her away. Felicity made it very clear that Ray is a near-perfect guy for her, and yet that still isn’t enough. It isn’t enough because Ray (Oliver 2.0) will never be the same as the real Oliver.

Edited April 3, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Jessica Breaux's review of 3x18 (I wanted to quote the entire article, recommend reading it)...

 

Arrow “Public Enemy” Review (Season 3, Episode 18)
Jessica Breaux   April 2, 2015
http://www.tvequals.com/2015/04/02/arrow-public-enemy-review-season-3-episode-18/

... But why is Ra’s working so hard and expending so many resources just to make sure that Oliver takes over. If Ra’s primary concern is that the League continues to function even after he dies, then why not appoint someone who, I don’t know, actually wants to be in charge? ... Ra’s determination to force Oliver into accepting leadership of the League does not feel organic to the story. It does not feel like a natural progression of Oliver’s story. It does not feel like a logical turn for the story to take. The whole situation with Ra’s feels extremely forced and like a mechanism to create drama for Oliver.

 

Then there’s Captain Lance. This was probably the most frustrating and ridiculous aspect of the entire episode and he was also the guy tripping over the majority of the obvious facts. In a matter of a few weeks, no, actually, let’s be generous. In a matter of a few months, Lance went from declaring The Arrow a hero and asking for his help to declaring him Public Enemy #1 and organizing a full on manhunt. Complete with shoot to kill orders. I get that Lance is hurting and angry about Sara. I get that he feels betrayed and played the fool. Those are completely human responses to what’s happened to him. What bothered me so much was how totally he disregarded everything that he’s witnessed The Arrow do. He was there when The Arrow helped him stop the other bomb from going off in The Glades. He was there when The Arrow and a handful of his compatriots took on hundreds of mirakuru-hyped criminals...  It also seriously bothered me how willing Lance was to accept anything Ra’s al Gul said to him. In case Lance was confused, Ra’s is the leader of an organization called the League of ASSASSINS. The only thing they do is kill people. So let me get this straight. Lance is perfectly ok with working with Ra’s (leader of the League of ASSASSINS) to get information on The Arrow, but he’s not ok with The Arrow because The Arrow kills people? Uh…what?....  Lance went on to blame Oliver for Sara’s death, Tommy’s death, the destruction of The Glades, Slade Wilson’s mirauru army, The Huntress and all the other horrible things that have happened in Starling City. There are several problems with that.

 

First of all, Lance’s tirade about Oliver’s responsibility for all those deaths completely disregards the agency of every single one of those people....

 

Secondly, the obvious fact is that all of those tragedies Lance laid at Oliver’s feet would have happened anyway....

 

Finally, Lance has chosen to turn a blind eye to all the good The Arrow has done for no other reason than he’s hurting and angry....  Claiming that he was victimized by The Arrow is a copout.

 

I really wanted to like this episode more than I did, but I was just so frustrated the whole time. It was yet another example of writing characters to fit the story instead of the other way around. Because let’s be honest. If they had kept Lance behaving like the Captain Lance we’ve seen over the last year and a half, there is no way this episode could have happened....

Edited April 3, 2015 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

I pretty much want to kiss that whole article. My only quibble is that without the Arrow Laurel wouldn't have died during the Undertaking, she would have died in the second episode of the whole series, when the Triad came to kill her. Lance is now a moron, and how stupid everyone and everything has been this whole season is my #1 complaint and really the main reason I had to stop watching. I HATE stupidity.

[tv echo]

Emily Bett Rickards, Felicity Smoak on ‘Arrow': 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Published 12:26 pm EDT, April 1, 2015
http://heavy.com/entertainment/2015/04/emily-bett-rickards-felicity-smoak-arrow-actress-boyfriend-cast/

[tv echo]

Laura Hurley @lah9891  ·  4h 4 hours ago

As if I'm not already long-winded enough, I'm now seriously considering posting "deleted scenes" from my #Arrow reviews. #suchadork

https://twitter.com/lah9891

Edited April 3, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

For a different perspective  -- yes, I rolled my eyes at the headline, but the article's not bad and it's short - though I had to roll my eyes again at the "Oliver's will to stay true to himself" line (how can Oliver stay true to himself when he doesn't know who his true self is? remember this season's identity theme?)...

 

Why The CW’s ‘Arrow’ Season 3 Is The Best Season Yet
By Daniel Waters on April 3, 2015
http://theyoungfolks.com/television/why-the-cws-arrow-season-3-is-the-best-season-yet/53417

Edited April 4, 2015 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

http://www.tv.com/shows/arrow/community/post/arrow-season-3-episode-18-public-enemy-review-142775431905/

 

Pretty negative review, focusing on the stupid (which I appreciate, because I cannot stand the stupid).  And 300 comments, most of which agree it's all very stupid.  God I wish Guggie would get Goffman'd!

[NumberCruncher]

That review and the comments that go with it seem pretty spot on--most people can see how disjointed and lacking in sense this season has been. For the longest time people could at least point to the stunts as the show's saving grace but it seems even those aren't cutting it anymore. I don't know why MG thinks that suddenly the last handful of episodes will save this one, but I admire his optimism.

I have to admit--reading people's reaction to what they've done to Felicity just makes me sad. The observations are valid, of course--especially how they essentially reduced her from being an audacious, yet totally lovable badass to being little more than a love toy separated from the team she was such an integral part of--but I hate seeing them being said so often by fans who used to love her. I also share others' disdain for regressing Quentin back to his S1 persona, particularly when it all could have been avoided by not A) offing Sara to force the BC plot and B) not turning him into a fool for half the season by covering it up (which I still cannot understand why Oliver took the blame for when he was the one begging others to come clean). On the other hand I feel somewhat justified that even non-shippers are not shy about pointing out Ray's shortcomings and their eager anticipation for his exit...it gives me hope that even those with comic character-worshipping tendencies can recognize a badly written superhero when they see one.

Edited April 4, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[statsgirl]

Like with Quentin, I think Felicity can be rehabilitated with a year of good writing.  Just look at Thea, once one of the most disliked characters of season 1.

 

Also at the site Four Hated Women on DC TV

 

DC’s live-action leading ladies tend to fall into one of two categories: lovable, plucky sidekick or hateful witch who needs to die. Intentionally or not, writers pit these women against each other by having one woman so well-written that the Grinch’s faith in humanity is restored and his heart grows three sizes larger. She tends to get the wittiest dialogue and is indispensable to the hero. The other woman, on the other hand, is usually a complete train wreck; she is given unsubstantial storylines that seem to gum up the hero’s trajectory for no reason, and rather than being a partner or sidekick who gets things done, she’s often the damsel in distress who derails an otherwise straightforward mission. While the fandom may ship the hero and his girl Friday, the writers may pair the hero with the hated Jezebel, who doesn’t want him for herself, having several other love interests, but who also doesn’t want him to be with anyone else.

Yes, you guessed it. Laurel. Also Lana Lang, Barbara Kean and Iris West.

[FurryFury]

Sorry, guys, but Felicity has never been THAT well-written as this article suggests. They've just struck gold with the archetype (that's appealing both for men and women audiences) and EBR. She was better than Laurel, sure, but she's not the reason Laurel's hated. She's been hated since the pilot. I hated her since her inconsistent behavior with first hating Oliver, than forgiving him. And The Flash has problems with both female characters. These writers (and probably Smallville writers, never watching this) simply have problems writing love interests. When a female isn't a love interest, she has a chance of being written well. Sara was great (and became a bit worse when she inexplicably hooked up with Oliver). Moira was always great. Thea had her problems in s1, but was never really hated.

[Hook75]

So true...."4 ways the CW is overplaying its superhero hand"

 

http://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/4-ways-the-cw-is-overplaying-its-superhero-hand.html/

[Sakura12]

For the longest time people could at least point to the stunts as the show's saving grace but it seems even those aren't cutting it anymore. 

 

I'm wondering if the stunts aren't as well shot this season is because they have to spend so much time playing hide the stunt double, Cassidy and Colton don't do their own stunts. When last season, Stephen Amell, Caity Lotz and Manu Bennett as well as to a lesser and underused extent Summer Glau could do some of their own stunts. Especially the fighting ones. 

[foreverevolving]

Sorry, guys, but Felicity has never been THAT well-written as this article suggests. They've just struck gold with the archetype (that's appealing both for men and women audiences) and EBR. She was better than Laurel, sure, but she's not the reason Laurel's hated. She's been hated since the pilot. I hated her since her inconsistent behavior with first hating Oliver, than forgiving him. And The Flash has problems with both female characters. These writers (and probably Smallville writers, never watching this) simply have problems writing love interests. When a female isn't a love interest, she has a chance of being written well. Sara was great (and became a bit worse when she inexplicably hooked up with Oliver). Moira was always great. Thea had her problems in s1, but was never really hated.

 

But that's the thing! I don't think anyone is saying Arrow is the best written show on TV now or ever- it's good enough but not amazing, but that is where actors come in, their job is to take the text and bring it to life, elevate it and make the show worthwhile to watch. with Arrow the problem with Laurel is that while the overall storylines and writing for her aren't worse than the rest of the characters, she is portrayed by an actress who simply doesn't have the acting range (unlike EBR/Felicity and SA/Oliver, MB/Slade and almost everyone else) to bring the character emotional complexity to life and by so get us to like the character and understand its motives, even if she's a terrible human being (see: JB/Malcolm & ST/Moira and others). In the hands of a different, better, actress I really do think LL could have been a truly amazing character.

Edited April 5, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Kordi]

There is an interesting article about SA's panel at Fan Expo Vancouver yesterday:

 

http://theworldgoespop.com/2015/04/04/fan-expo-vancouver-2015-stephen-amell-teases-arrow-season-3-and-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/

[Morena]

Quotes of the Week From Walking Dead, Supernatural, Weird Loners and More

http://tvline.com/gallery/walking-dead-carol-quote-oh-sunshine-you-dont-get-both/#!&ref=/2015/04/05/kelly-clarkson-idol-quote-i-think-im-pregnant-clark-beckham-rehearsal/pos=

Edited April 5, 2015 by Morena

[tv echo]

I don't think the reviewer at Emertainment Monthly has ever had a negative review of an Arrow episode.  This time, she praises James Bamford and his stunt team, PB as Quentin, and CR as Mama Smoak - and even uses the term "game changer"...

 

‘Arrow’ Review/Recap: “Public Enemy”
Posted on April 4, 2015  By Nora Dominick ‘17
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/2015/04/04/arrow-reviewrecap-public-enemy/

Edited April 6, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The 2 romance authors at USA Today are back with their review of "Public Enemy" (they disagree about Quentin)...

 

Romance authors on latest 'Arrow': Hated it … loved it
Lavinia Kent and Allison Brennan 6 p.m. EDT April 3, 2015
http://www.usatoday.com/story/happyeverafter/2015/04/03/arrow-allison-brennan-lavinia-kent-public-enemy/25243187/

[tv echo]

Two new Robert Dougherty articles on Arrow.-- these are both very spoilery, so I am not quoting anything from them and also added spoiler tags (don't read if you don't want to be spoiled).  The second article especially is worth reading...

 

Stephen Amell Teases 'Arrow' Season Three End Game In Vancouver
By Robert Dougherty Apr 06, 2015 12:45 PM
 

Why 'Arrow' Hasn't Won Me Over With

'Olicity' Hook Up

Yet
By Robert Dougherty Apr 07, 2015 09:00 AM

 

(P.S.  If you comment, be careful with the spoilers.)
 

Edited April 7, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Rich Epstein's review of 3x18 posted at Bleeding Cool... 

 

Starting In A Bad Place - Recapping Arrow 3.18: 'Public Enemies'
By Rich Epstein Posted April 6, 2015
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/04/06/starting-in-a-bad-place-recapping-arrow-3-18-public-enemies

Luckily, [Ray] invented some nano-robots that can take out the blood clot without harming him. Wait, how long has he had these things? Why doesn’t he have a whole team of people working on this? How many people could he have saved? What a dick. Anyway, speaking of dicks, the doctor won’t use the nanobots because the hospital has a strict policy against experimental procedures. He tells Felicity not to worry, they will figure something out. What? You’re a frigging billionaire. Transfer to a hospital that will perform the procedure. Duh.
*  *  *
At the hospital, the doctor tracks down Felicity to tell her that the blood clot is gone. He asks her if she had anything to do with it. Who cares? First of all, he just disclosed a patient’s medical information to someone. Not really supposed to do that. Then, there is the fact that he now knows that Ray’s nano-tech worked. He cured an inoperable blood clot in his brain. Shouldn’t the doctor be amazed by this? It seems like kind of a big deal....
*  *  *
Felicity, Roy and Laurel arrive at Diggle’s. The first thing Oliver does is ask about Ray, which I think might actually be the nicest thing that he has ever done for Felicity. I mean, he’s saved her life and stuff, but he does that for anyone. Here, in the middle of all of his problems, he stops to ask the woman he loves about her boyfriend....

Edited April 7, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Laura Hurley's 'deleted scenes' from her 3x18 review - I love that she did this (only one excerpt quoted, but recommend reading entire thing because it's quite funny in parts)...

 

Deleted scenes from “Arrow S03E18: What worked, what didn’t, and what needs to happen next
http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/115438606711/deleted-scenes-from-arrow-s03e18-what-worked

…The Big Bad of Season 4 needs to budget his or her time carefully so as to allow the time to swing by Central City and drop a truth bomb about Oliver on Dinah Lance. It will never cease to be funny that supervillains Slade Wilson and Ra’s al Ghul got so impatient about members of the Lance family never figuring anything out that they had to make house calls to get the plot moving. Why not bring Dinah in on the action next year?

Edited April 7, 2015 by tv echo

[Kordi]

An interesting article about SA´s casting as Casey Jones in TMNT2, which contains some good general reflections about the importance of social media presence as one criterion in casting an actor for a movie role:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/04/01/arrow-star-and-his-social-media-followers-joins-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-2/

[Velocity23]

Stephen & Barrowman talk with peoples choice. Very short videos of it included in the article!

 

http://blog.peopleschoice.com/2015/04/08/arrow-stephen-amell-against-the-clock-favorite-oliver-felicity-moment/

[tv echo]

TV Shows Need To Respect Death In Order To Carry Dramatic Weight

By Paul on Apr 9, 2015
http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/tv-shows-need-respect-death-order-carry-dramatic-weight-255174

Both The Flash and Arrow have now invented ways to defy death, or rather, pulled them from the comics. Arrow has introduced the Lazarus Pit, and while no one but Ra’s al Ghul himself has used it yet, the fact that

Caity Lotz has been attached to a new Arrow/Flash spin-off, after her character, Sara Lance, has been killed off, means that Sara could very well be the first to be resurrected using the Lazarus Pit’s magic

. Meanwhile, on The Flash, Barry Allen now has the ability to actually go back in time and prevent all the deaths he wants. He doesn’t know it, but altering the timeline managed to save Cisco’s life, after we all saw him murdered by Dr. Wells.

 

The problem with all of this is that it creates a distinct lack of stakes when characters can simply come back to life. You simply don’t believe any major character is dead after they’ve been killed, and if they are, you can then say “well,, why don’t they just do this and bring them back?” given that it’s happened before.

Edited April 9, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Yep, it's why I hate fake deaths and no, it happens in comics, isn't an excuse (IMO)

Edited April 9, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[romantic idiot]

Eh I don't care because I find death to be a cheap way to raise stakes anyway. 

[Trini]

Interview with Katie Cassidy.

 

Is it weird that there hasn't been any other clips or promos for the new episode since over a week ago?

[Velocity23]

Not really its how CW operates with Arrow.

[Morena]

Arrow’ Star Amy Gumenick Talks Finding the Right Role on ‘Arrow’, her ‘Supernatural’ Days and Her Original Love of Theatre

http://emertainmentmonthly.com/2015/04/11/arrow-star-amy-gumenick-talks-finding-the-right-role-on-arrow-her-supernatural-days-and-her-original-love-of-theatre/

[tv echo]

I've seen Daredevil discussions in both the Small Talk and Mind Your Surroundings threads; however, since this article is heavily Arrow as well, I decided to post it here -- an interesting article by Robert Dougherty that presents Arrow as a cautionary tale for Daredevil...

 

'Daredevil' Merely Follows 'Arrow's' Dark Superhero TV Footsteps
By Robert Dougherty Apr 12, 2015 01:30 PM
http://www.themovienetwork.com/article/daredevil-merely-follows-arrows-dark-superhero-tv-footsteps

If anything, Arrow really proved first that brooding, serious minded and morally gray superheroes could work as TV stars....
*  *  *
Of course, with the traditional CW love triangles, lead Stephen Amell's considerable physique, and with substantially more humor added once Felicity Smoak was a regular character, Arrow wasn't all doom and gloom. Even Arrow at its most hopeless and self-defeating -- as it has been at various points this season -- has had more light than what Daredevil promises, with its substantially more violent action and cinematography.
*  *  *
Yet the struggles of Arrow's current season, and the increasingly repetitive nature of Oliver's martyrdom, self-hatred and inability to accept happiness and his self-worth -- to the point where

he will soon take the place of the evil Ra's al Ghul for a while

-- shows the limits of how long this style can really succeed. As such, Arrow can currently serve as a cautionary tale for Daredevil in future seasons, and for the Marvel/Netflix collection of shows in general.
*  *  *
No one really expects Daredevil to eventually crack a dozen smiles an episode. But once it proves that Marvel TV can be graphic, dark, brooding and often depressing as well, it may be in its best creative interest not to rub it in any more than it absolutely has to.

 

Arrow forgot that more than once after it broke the glass ceiling for dark superhero television. Now time will tell if Daredevil's freedom to be even darker and more painful will become a lasting gift, or an inevitable crutch.

Edited April 13, 2015 by tv echo

[dcinmb]

ETA: Oops. Didn't realize this had already been posted in the 'Spoilers Only' thread. Sorry!

 

 

No worries at all- Mostly C.  :)

Edited April 14, 2015 by MostlyC

[Morena]

Who Is Going to Die on Arrow?

http://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-season-3-spoilers-who-is-going-to-die/

[statsgirl]

Upcoming 'Arrow' Death May Not Be Shocking Or Even Game Changing

Robert Dougherty

 

Speculation that there is a death on tomorrow's episode.

[tv echo]

WeWatchforthePlot strikes again (reviews 3x18 "Public Enemy") - they seem to post their episode reviews right before the new episode airs...

 

Quentin Lance Wasn’t a Very Good Detective After All
April 14, 2015   Kerry
https://wewatchfortheplot.wordpress.com/

In the three years since the Arrow has appeared in his city, Quentin Lance, detective-turned-beat-cop-turned-captain, hasn’t figured out his true identity. This is besides the fact that the Arrow’s sidekick was Oliver Queen’s bodyguard, that his other sidekick was Queen’s executive assistant, that his daughter Sara Lance, aka the Canary, was dating Queen when she ran around saving the city, and that his other daughter Laurel, aka the Black Canary, has taken over that mantle.

I’m not sure how we can interpret this other than Quentin being a colossal idiot who is terrible at his job, but hey, at least he probably knew it on some level. Sigh.
*  *  *
Ray, meanwhile, saves Felicity’s life or whatever. He ends up in the hospital and he’s still SUPER boring there, even on his literal deathbed, as he talks about his “teeny tiny robots” which can break up a blood clot. Then he goes from boring to psychotic in a teeny tiny robot second when he tells Felicity that he loves her. You know. Less than a year after he lost his “beloved” fiancee during Slade’s Mirakuvasion. This is definitely manipulation on his part.
*  *  *
“Race” al Ghul is still trying to bully Oliver into taking on his mantle, and make no mistake, this is actual bullying. Stephen Amell can tweet his faux-excitement to be “the next R’as!” all he wants, it’s not gonna fool me into thinking this is actually a good turn for him. This show needs a huge reset button for this storyline and I hate that they’ve driven me to the point of actually wanting time travel or Lazarus Pits or anything that will get rid of this stupid “Race” al Ghul storyline once and for all.
*  *  *
TAX DAY: I just watched the extended promo for this week’s Arrow and while I’m looking forward to an Oliver-and-Roy centric episode, it’s also gonna be heavy on Bootleg Iron Man, so my mental countdown for when Ray goes to his own show has already begun....

Edited April 15, 2015 by tv echo