The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

HeroesandHeartbreakers review of 423...

Hope Springs Eternal: Arrow 4x23 Olicity Heart-to-Heart
MARILYN PORTER MAY 26 2016 12:00PM
http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2016/05/hope-springs-eternal-arrow-4x23-olicity-heart-to-heart

Quote

Well, folks. We didn’t get a reunion. Or a reconciliation. Oliver and Felicity didn’t even talk about their breakup. But somehow… it worked.
*  *  *
Oliver visits Laurel’s grave and tells her that she was always better than him. I’m doubtful of that, by the way. But we always exalt the dead, right?...
*  *  * 
... Waller gives Oliver a very familiar looking wooden chest filled with his father’s notebook, his bow and quiver, his hood… she tells him she can use him as an agent, or he can return to being a vigilante. Right now, he choses neither. He has a promise to keep, to go to Russia and tell Taiana’s family what happened to her (and become a Bratva captain; let’s be real, that’s what we’re all looking forward to!).

Edited May 28, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

USA Today review of 423...

Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent on 'Arrow' season finale 'Schism':
By: Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent    | May 27, 2016 6:00 pm
http://happyeverafter.usatoday.com/2016/05/27/allison-brennan-lavinia-kent-arrow-season-finale-schism/

Quote

LK: ... I should be very clear that I did enjoy Schism and was happy with how the writers concluded everything. Oliver’s growth arc is remarkable. If you had given me a plot outline, I would have thought it was almost perfect. (It didn’t hurt that I was right about how Oliver was going to get the power to overcome Darhk.) But, when I watched it I wasn’t quite as blown away as I wanted to be. I believe it was mostly a matter of lack of time. I would have liked to dwell a little more in some of the moments instead of being pulled from action scene to action scene until the very end.
*  *  *
AB: The episode was exactly what I wanted in the finale, and so, so, SO much better than the season three finale. Yes, there were a few moments I thought could have been improved upon, but as far as the story arc for the episode as well as the season, I am hugely pleased. This season is second only to season two, which is really hard to beat.
*  *  *
LK: One moment I am complaining that I want them to have more hope and the next I am irritated that Lyla is acting like her men have a chance, that it’s not a needless suicide mission. This scene may have been necessary for the John/Lyla relationship story, showing that Lyla truly understands the necessity of making tough choices, but I was not convinced. The writers are making me doubt that Lyla is the intelligent and savvy woman I have always taken her to be. I wasn’t sure about her carrying Rubicon on a chip in her arm and I am not sure about this.
*  *  *
LK: I have to admit that I started to get irritated with the episode right about here. (A reminder that I did enjoy it — I’m just being picky.) The world is ending and I have to listen to Oliver have another guilt trip about Laurel? And what, big picture, does he think would have been different if he hadn’t come back? Maybe the Ark wouldn’t have been destroyed — although Anarky might have done that even without Oliver — but Darhk would still have nuked the planet and Laurel would have died anyway.
*  *  *
LK: Amell had another great moment of acting in the brief moment when they all watch the nuke fly away from the city. With only the subtlest of facial gestures, you can feel him thank God and then ground himself for the fight that still must be fought.
*  *  *
LK: And I was a little irritated that, even after having done it twice, Felicity couldn’t figure out on her own that they needed to change the targeting. I do like having Curtis there, and having them talk out their plans so we all know what is happening, but I would have liked Felicity to figure it out by herself. It was the third time they used what was basically the same trick.
*  *  *
For a moment, when Oliver clearly had control over Darhk and had won the fight, I feared he wouldn’t kill him … that he would try to be “better” and let him live. But he reminded Darhk that he killed Laurel and tens of thousands of people, then stabbed him with an arrow. I thought the image of the blood on the arrow as that scene closed was not only strong, but foreshadowing. Maybe there is now going to be a blend of the dark and the light — which will work for me.
*  *  *
I found the ending an odd mixture of bleakness and hope. There was real hope for the future, but at the same time everyone felt the need to move on. I normally think of this as the darkest of the CW superhero shows, but this ending wasn’t really quite dark. We were left with a bunch of wounded heroes, but also with the faith that there is a future.
*  *  *
AB: I am totally stoked about a four-series crossover, and I’ll be catching up on Supergirl this summer. Over all, I think Arrow is definitely the strongest of all the superhero shows, but it could be because it’s my favorite and has been since day one. I love the darkness, I love the humanity and conflicts. I love that Oliver doesn’t have “super” powers. I don’t understand why The Flash has so much higher ratings … I like the show (because of Grant Gustin and Jesse L. Martin predominantly), but I don’t love, love it (and I don’t like Iris). Arrow is more complex and has stronger conflict and character arcs. Oh well!

Edited May 28, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Craig Wack and Tatiana Torres discuss Arrow 423 beginning at 1:22:46...

Agents of GEEK Podcast Episode 30
Posted on 05/27/2016
http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/

-- Craig thought that the Arrow season finale was better than the Flash's season finale, although it also had some "gaping plot holes" But both Craig and Tatiana thought that Arrow's season finale had "way less" plot holes than The Flash.

-- Tatiana thought that we would see Laurel resurrected, but was "pleasantly surprised" that it didn't happen. Craig noted that KC was still listed in the credits, but Tatiana wondered if that was contractual. Craig mentioned that Glenn Yeun was missing from TWD credits for the episodes when he was presumed dead and that Katee Sackhoff was missing from BSG credits for the episodes when she was presumed dead. Craig thought that when Quentin and Donna were driving away, they would drive up to some lake cabin and go inside, where Laurel would be sitting there drinking a glass of wine and would wave to her father.

-- Tatiana was surprised that we did not get an Olicity reunion at the end: "I feel like they've been through a lot together, and there was a lot of emotions running high at the end, and she said she's gonna stay, and they do not kiss. I'm very unhappy."

-- Tatiana noted that SA had said they'd do something in the finale that they hadn't done before, but she didn't see anything that they didn't do before. Craig incorrectly said that Oliver killed the Big Bad this season for the first time. (He thought that Ra's was killed by Vandal Savage this season.)

-- Craig thought it was kinda weak that Darhk was taken down by the citizens being hopeful and telling Darhk to go away. Tatiana agreed and expected something with "more gravitas" to take down Darhk, like some "cool, other mystical tool that they had to use."  They noted that Oliver's magic tattoo didn't even come into play. Craig thought that, with all the mentions of Laurel during this episode, some last memory of something she said might've been the thing to give Oliver that last boost of hope.

-- Tatiana wondered if the absence of the other team members (Diggle, Thea) will lead to Curtis becoming Mr. Terrific next season. She kinda expected the Mr. Terrific reveal to happen in this finale. Craig agreed that the finale opened the door for Mr. Terrific to join the team.

-- Craig's pet peeve was the Arrow writers' lack of knowledge that every missile has more than one warhead in it.

-- Craig noted that, like Flash, it's the "reset button" with Arrow.  He thought that everyone breaking off from the team felt "organic", although Diggle leaving his family and re-enlisting didn't feel right for his character. As for Thea, Craig would've preferred to see her off back-packing abroad or even snuggled up with Roy, as opposed to just sitting on a couch. 

-- Craig noted that, in the way SA shaved, it looked like they were going toward the "classic van dyke" facial hair look of the comic book Oliver Queen. Tatiana promised to "keep tabs" on SA's social media: "Don't worry, guys, I'll do it for you - sacrifice for science."

-- Craig noted that Felicity was the only one who didn't take off and was all "gung ho... I'm OGT Team Arrow to the end."  Tatiana: "I thought that they would kiss right there. C'mon, guys! Like, she's basically saying, 'I'll never leave you.'" Craig said that it appears that any "residual hatred over the fact that Oliver lied to her twice about the kid and that kind of stuff seemed to have vanished." He wondered if the Flash reset will lead to Barry not being the Flash anymore and Oliver only lying to Felicity once about his kid.

-- They both wondered what will happen with Thea and said that if Thea is gone, then there'd be no reason for JB to stick around as Malcolm.

[looptab]

That review was  funny, especially the "passing of the baton" stuff, and my favorite "the writers do an incredible job". LOL

By the way, I don't remember, when was the last time we saw the notebook in flashback? Oliver saw his father's message in s3 while he was in Starling, but did they show the book in Hong Kong?

[AyChihuahua]

I guess people truly have wiped S3 from their minds. Killing RAG was the big climax of the finale, and people just flat-out forgot. 

He also killed Merlyn in S1. Merlyn came back, but that doesn't change that Oliver, for all intents and purposes, killed him.

[tv echo]

The first part of this video doesn't appear to have been included in the video of SA's full Larry King Now interview (previously posted on page 171 of this thread)...

Blog Exclusive: Stephen Amell answers fan questions! [VIDEO]
Larry King Now May 27 '16
http://www.ora.tv/larrykingnow/article/2016/5/27/stephen-amell-answers-fan-questions

LK: "@Vickie via blog. 'Does the amount of hatred on social media that's directed to everone from Marc Guggenheim to the writers and even death threats to the cast surprise you? I enjoy the show but I try to stay away from social media regarding Arrow because it has gotten so nasty.'... Why has it gotten so nasty?"
SA: "It's gotten decidedly negative because, for whatever reason, different - different - you know, people that are fans of the show have seemed to split up into different factions. But again, I really do think that it's a few people with very loud voices, and I feel like if you're going on the attack for fictional characters that you're probably not real fans of the show."

Edited May 29, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Posting one last ER interview...

BC Girl Elysia Rotaru Talks Arrow And Horror Flicks
by Jennifer Cox   May 26th, 2016
http://www.craveonline.ca/entertainment/993099-bc-girl-elysia-rotaru-talks-arrow-horror-flicks?platform=hootsuite

Quote

Elysia Rotaru is a recurring character on The CW network's hit series Arrow. Known for her guest star appearances on Supernatural and iZombie, Elysia plays Taiana Venediktov on Arrow, a prisoner on Lian Yu who Oliver Queen (Arrow) sparks a love interest with. Together they plot their escape from the island.
*  *  *
CraveOnline: Tell us about your role on Arrow and what that’s been like.

Elysia Rotaru: Taiana was brought in at the beginning of the season and Arrow (Oliver Queen) have been Bonnie and Clyding it and trying to save everyone else. It developed more and more on that level, and we’re starting to see more encounters of the mystical side and why things are happening there. As the season progressed you see more of that coming into play with my character in response to Ryder’s character, coming to a culmination point mostly spawned by my interpretation of Taiana’s anger and eagerness to get people off of the island.

Edited May 29, 2016 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

I'm not sure " Bonnie and Clyding it" is the right term since they were killer bank robbers on the lamb.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm left scratching my head whenever I read ER's interviews about Arrow and try to reconcile what she says and what I saw on screen. Might be a reason the character didn't work out. We know how things get weird when actors have head canons that don't quite match the script.

Edited May 29, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[Guest]

I have to wonder if they filmed more for the flashbacks and it was cut? Or maybe ER was just building up her character to be more than what it was. I think back now and I can barely remember anything. She only became vaguely interesting when she absorbed the idol's power. Haha.

[catrox14]

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

SA: "It's gotten decidedly negative because, for whatever reason, different - different - you know, people that are fans of the show have seemed to split up into different factions. But again, I really do think that it's a few people with very loud voices, and I feel like if you're going on the attack for fictional characters that you're probably not real fans of the show."

Oh Stephen. You had me until you invoked 'real fans'.  Gods I hate that.

[wonderwall]

14 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh Stephen. You had me until you invoked 'real fans'.  Gods I hate that.

I wonder if it was his nicer way of saying " if you're going to attack someone b/c of a fictional character then you're crazy and I want nothing to do with you".

If so, I approve.

Edited May 29, 2016 by wonderwall

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I wonder if it was his nicer way of saying " if you're going to attack someone b/c of a fictional character then you're crazy and I want nothing to do with you".

If so, I approve.

Okay but then why doesn't he just say that?  I don't agree with butt-ton of things but he can just say straight up, "Please let's not attack over fictional characters". IMO he's fueling the "TRUFAN" BS. JMHO

[wonderwall]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Okay but then why doesn't he just say that?  I don't agree with butt-ton of things but he can just say straight up, "Please let's not attack over fictional characters". IMO he's fueling the "TRUFAN" BS. JMHO

I guess IMO people who attack others/send death threats/tell some people are like cancer aren't real fans. They're just terrible human beings who are trying to latch onto a show they once loved and are lashing out.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

I guess IMO people who attack others/send death threats/tell some people are like cancer aren't real fans. They're just terrible human beings who are trying to latch onto a show they once loved and are lashing out.

Not every negative comment is that level of vitriol. My point was more that he isn't helping by making that kind of distinction.

[apinknightmare]

Didn't he clarify what he meant in a Facebook post?

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Not every negative comment is that level of vitriol. My point was more that he isn't helping by making that kind of distinction.

But Stephen specifically said if you're going to "attack for a fictional character"... I think that's the distinction he made. Sure negative comments are okay. But maybe what he meant was that if you're going to attack real life people (which most definitely is that level of vitriol) then you're not what he considers a fan. 

Edited May 29, 2016 by wonderwall

[Midnight Lullaby]

From what he said I got that he thinks those who watch the show (or don't and comment) only to viciously attack fictional characters like it was their life mission and talk all day about how much the show sucks aren't real fans and I wholeheartedly agree. If you hate a thing so much to be aggressive and nasty online you can't be a fan of said thing, it just doesn't make sense.

[wonderwall]

14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Didn't he clarify what he meant in a Facebook post?

I thought that post got deleted... 

Edited May 29, 2016 by wonderwall

[EmeraldArcher]

Just now, wonderwall said:

I guess IMO people who attack others/send death threats/tell some people are like cancer aren't real fans. They're just terrible human beings who are trying to latch onto a show they once loved and are lashing out.

This makes sense to me!  I agree with @catrox14 that it's stupid to evoke the concept of "true fan" because that phrase is exclusionary and divisive (much like the traditional fan boy culture sneering at the emergence of fan girls and their perceived fan girl culture), but I totally get where you're coming from, @wonderwall. People who make make death threats against actors or detail sexual assualts they'd love to commit on fictional characters because they hate them so much are terrible human beings, not deserving of being called "fans."

Many of us here, myself certainly included, are not fans of LL or KC. And yet, none of us, to my knowledge, conflated LL with KC (I have separate problems with each), nor have we posted vile things about either on SA's, MG's, or KC's social media. There are some LL/KC fans here, too, and I don't think any of us non-fans have questioned their "True Fan" status just because they favor a different aspect of a show we all enjoy.

Perhaps we've been held in check by the fact that this site is heavily moderated, but I think we gravitate here because it is heavily moderated so we don't encounter the vile, pervasive misogyny found in most fan sites, whether we're fan boys, fan girls, or just simply fans.

[dtissagirl]

14 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher said:

Perhaps we've been held in check by the fact that this site is heavily moderated, but I think we gravitate here because it is heavily moderated so we don't encounter the vile, pervasive misogyny found in most fan sites, whether we're fan boys, fan girls, or just simply fans.

Yup yup yup. I love it here because it's heavily moderated. It feels safe to post here because of that. And ITA, I don't think it's happenstance that mostly female + mostly Felicity fans ended up here.

Also -- I truly believe moderation of online spaces is the surefire best way to prevent abuse.

Edited May 29, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Guest]

I definitely feel safer posting here, not only as a Felicity/Olicity fan but as a woman. I do visit Facebook to like posts and stuff but I only commented once and was told I was an 'Olishitty fan and was a cancer' and I never commented again. 

Edited May 29, 2016 by Guest

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Oh Stephen. You had me until you invoked 'real fans'.  Gods I hate that.

I have no problem that he made the distinction between fans of the show and "fans" that "[go] on the attack for fictional characters". He further clarified in this FB post:

Edited May 29, 2016 by lemotomato

[Chaser]

Smh. If it were up to Facebook. Thea would have been killed off in S1, Laurel in S2 and Felicity in S3. Female characters would be decoration with caps on screentime. The 'serious' relationships would only be left up to the male characters (i.e. The Flash).

[TwistedandBored]

Do The CW's Superhero Shows Have a Big, Bad Villain Problem?

By Vlada Gelman / May 29 2016

http://tvline.com/2016/05/29/arrow-the-flash-legends-of-tomorrow-villain-problem-fix/

Quote

 

Total destruction and world domination are rarely interesting as a storyline unless a show commits to the grandiose scope of such a dastardly plot. Darhk’s desire to “burn the world in a nuclear fire” never truly felt like a threat, and not just because there would be no show — or spinoffs, for that matter! — after such an event. If Earth is going to be blown to smithereens, you better believe the government is going to be involved, and yet nary an official was to be found during the final episodes. (Arrow‘s POTUS was right to be worried about the fate of humankind resting in “an IT girl, a criminal and two guys in Halloween costumes.” He alsoshould have sent reinforcements.)

And when it comes right down to it, a bad guy with a “I want to take over/destroy the world!” agenda is never going to get what he wants. While Darhk did some scary damage along the way (via Felicity’s accident, Laurel’s death), his Genesis zeal in the finale fell short of suspenseful.

 

 

I have to say, I agree with everything written in this article.

[AyChihuahua]

Why do so many people call what happened to Felicity her "accident"? She was shot a bunch of times by armed goons. How is that an accident? (This isn't the only time I've seen that terminology.)

[dtissagirl]

I think it's because it happened in a car? And then people just equate car = accident?

it's also a way to make attempted murder less than it really was, but I don't know how on purpose that is.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

"attack for a fictional character"

I like this distinction.  I have no trouble attacking a fictional character but I hope I never turn vicious on another character or poster because I want revenge due to another character's storyline (getting killed still is a storyline).  Here it's easy since we don't even talk about "fans" but elsewhere I regularly get attacked personally while still trying to stick strictly to talking about the show.  It's like the conversation stops being about the program or  characters or what happens on the show and instead becomes an attempt at exacting retribution merely because the show is not meeting someone's personal expectations. 

Edited May 30, 2016 by BkWurm1

[TimetravellingBW]

10 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

Yup yup yup. I love it here because it's heavily moderated. It feels safe to post here because of that. And ITA, I don't think it's happenstance that mostly female + mostly Felicity fans ended up here.

Also -- I truly believe moderation of online spaces is the surefire best way to prevent abuse.

Yes to all this, I'm still a new poster here but I've never wanted to post in a lot of other discussion spaces because of how quickly it descends into abuse, especially if you're female. Here although people are more anti some aspects of the show, the attacks aren't personal.

Also I love that the discussion here is genuinely analytical in working out what went wrong/why the writers made those decisions/taking behind the scenes contexts ect. Rather than just "character/relationship X is ruining the show!!" Even with Laurel who certainly comes under a lot of criticism, it's usually well thought. I was reading back through her thread (wow was there a lot of content) and there was so much discussion about alternative storylines, how she could have been saved, better roles/writing for her etc. 

Sorry that got rambly but I really enjoy this forum as a haven from the hate in other online areas. So thanks mods as well! 

[tv echo]

I highly recommend reading the entire article...

Processing Fictional Trauma: Schism (S4 Finale) Edition
BY DR. FANGIRL, PHD  MAY 29, 2016 // 3:02 PM
http://fanfest.com/2016/05/29/pft-schism/

Quote

The end of the season found Team Arrow battered and emotionally broken. After the epic showdown with Damien Darhk and HIVE, each member had to decide for themselves how to best take care of themselves afterward to heal. For Diggle, Lance, and Thea, this meant taking a step back from Team Arrow and the fight for Star City so that they could reflect on who they are without their masks and badges. This can’t have been an easy decision for any of them to make as fighting to make the world a better and safer place is such an integral part of each of their identities. In our fast paced world, we are so often programmed to think of others’ needs ahead of our own… it would be easy for each of them to struggle with guilt for leaving the city less protected to manage their individual issues, or to try to gut it out and not leave at all.  But in reality, if superheroes don’t take a step back to manage their emotions and to heal, it’s very easy for them to either cross that line from hero to villain, or get themselves killed by not having their head in the game. Neither of these outcomes are at all helpful to the people they’re trying to protect, ultimately showing how taking care of themselves is taking care of the city. While my respect and adoration for these characters was already incredibly high, seeing them make the tough choices to step back and care for themselves emotionally nearly made my therapist heart burst with joy. It’s easy to be inspired by superheroes to be a better person and to do good for the world as they do. Seeing Team Arrow show us that it’s okay to take care of ourselves is something that we don’t often see superheroes do, and I hope will inspire more of us as viewers to do the same....
*  *  *
So in looking at ourselves as fans, I would encourage anyone reading this to do some self-reflection. In the same way that each of the members of Team Arrow reflected and searched for self-awareness about their status on the team and how it’s affecting them emotionally, it’s important for each of us to reflect on our participation in the Arrow fandom. Television is meant to be entertainment… something that enriches our lives in some positive way. Participation in a fandom is the next step, in that if we’re so excited about a television show (or any other form of entertainment), we want to connect with other people who are also passionate about that show. While this doesn’t mean that fandom participation has to be 100% positive all the time, it is a balance that we have to find.
*  *  *
Regardless of your feelings on the finale or the entire season, it’s important to internally examine whether or not watching Arrow and being a part of its fandom are still primarily positive and enriching to your life. If you have found that you are getting upset every week watching Arrow (or any other show), then stop watching. It’s a TV show, not a cult… no one is going to drag you back if you try to leave. If you’re not quite ready to do that, then take a step back from the show and the fandom for the summer, and reassess your feelings on watching when Arrow comes back this fall. If you’re feeling frustrated with elements of the show, write the showrunners a note and tell them about it… respectfully. It’ll likely be therapeutic for you, and will help them know the feelings in the fandom. If you still enjoy the show, but are struggling with the significant negativity within the fandom, take a social media break, or use the mute/unfollow/block buttons liberally. While it’s important to not completely seal ourselves away from people who disagree with us, it’s also important to take care of ourselves. If that means paring down the people you follow on Twitter, or the groups you follow on Facebook, so be it. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with decreasing exposure to things in life that upset you – especially when we’re talking about an area that should be about entertainment and fun. And hey, if you love the fandom but don’t want to watch the show anymore, that too is totally okay. As long as you’re respectful and aren’t malicious towards people for their choice on what brings joy to their lives, I’m sure most people would be completely okay with continuing friendships, even if fandom decisions differ. Most fangirls and fanboys tend to be cool like that, at least in my experience.

... Passion about our fandoms is what we’re known for, and for many of us, it’s a point of pride, no matter what the rest of the world may think or feel about it. But keep in mind…. Life is short. Energy is finite. There are battles we have to fight in our daily lives that we can’t back down from. But our television choices don’t have to be one of them. When it comes to fandom, do the things that bring you joy and make you feel good. Focus on elements of your shows that make you happy. Read good fan fiction and leave positive comments for the authors. Find fun people and groups to engage with on social media. Go to a con and find your fandom family. Send your favorite actors, writers, and showrunners a love letter thanking them for their hard work and tell them how they’ve touched your life. Revel in the positive, and most importantly… Take care of yourself. You deserve it.

Edited May 31, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

TV Equals review of 423...

Arrow “Schism” Review (Season 4, Episode 23)
Jessica Breaux  May 29, 2016
http://www.tvequals.com/2016/05/29/arrow-schism-review-season-4-episode-23/

Quote

I wanted to like Arrow’s season four finale. I really did. Alas, it just wasn’t meant to be. Instead of an emotionally impactful story that wrapped up the season long story arc, I got a jumbled mess that left me more frustrated and confused than excited for what comes next.
*  *  *
Then there was Oliver’s supposedly rousing speech to the citizens of Starling City. It’s all well and good to try and calm the panic, but um, did everyone forget about the NUCLEAR MISSILE headed toward the city?! Oliver giving a speech is just fine, but how about someone keep working on figuring out a way to stop the missile’s while Oliver’s talking. The missile was literally about to drop right down on Oliver and everyone else while he’s proclaiming that the city will survive. Um…no....
*  *  *
... The show didn’t give me an opportunity to really become invested in Damien the way I was in Slade. Even though I knew Slade had to be stopped because his mind was poisoned by a combination of mirakuru, jealousy, and rage, I was still very much interested in him as a character. Slade did more than just show up on screen and proverbially twirl his mustache. Slade was surgical and precise in his decimation of Oliver and everything Oliver cared about. The show spent the entire season building up to the inevitable confrontation between Oliver and Slade, so when it came, there was no way for it not to carry significant emotional weight. Furthermore, Slade’s connection to Oliver was deeply personal. Thus, each attack Slade delivered and each loss Oliver suffered was a blow to the audience just as much as it was to Oliver. I cannot say the same about Oliver and Damien Darhk. Yes. Darhk had a nefarious plan to destroy Starling City (and the entire world apparently) and Team Arrow needed to stop him. But stop the bad guy and save the world is kind of an abstract and generic theme....

This was an extremely anticlimactic season finale. Oliver’s personal journey this season has been muddled at best, and it feels like the show has regressed him emotionally as opposed to moving him forward. Many people blame Olicity for this, and to some extent that’s true. But not in the way I’ve heard people argue it. Olicity is to blame to the extent that the writers didn’t seem to understand that Felicity doesn’t need to be a two-dimensional character in order to be with Oliver, and Oliver doesn’t need to be emotionally retarded to be with Felicity. Given the nature of their lives, there was more than enough dramatic ground to mine there without taking away pretty much everything that made Felicity awesome in the first place and negating the emotional growth we’ve seen from Oliver over the last three years. I was also pretty disappointed with the way they wrote Diggle this season as well. It was like they replaced the Diggle I’ve spent three years getting to know with a completely different person....

... The ending was more bleak and depressing than anything else. Arrow has suffered a great deal this season because it seems to have lost sight of its own story and its own voice. My feeling is that since it’s been serving as a springboard for all the network’s other DC projects, Arrow doesn’t seem to know what story it’s telling anymore. That’s a problem. Hopefully, the powers that be will spend some time over the summer getting back to basics and finding Arrow’s voice again because I kind of miss Arrow.

Edited May 30, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Another Den of Geek review of 423..

Arrow season 4 episode 23 review: Schism
Caroline Preece 30 May 2016 - 08:50
http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/arrow/41047/arrow-season-4-episode-23-review-schism

Quote

Arrow has been having an identity crisis since it started spinning off into brighter, less introspective areas of the multiverse, but that's not necessarily Arrow's fault. While most people have been calling for the show to be lighter and more fun post-Flash and Supergirl, what it's done instead is double-down on the darkness that made Oliver Queen a compelling character in the first place.

But my issue is that the story has been dragged out for far too long. Oliver was once a sympathetic character on a show that seemed fresh and of-the-moment when it premiered back in 2012, but then Marvel showed up on our cinema screens and shifted the cultural expectation to sunnier, more humorous superhero fare. Arrow, I guess to it's credit, has not succumbed to pressure.

But that stubbornness may have been its downfall. Despite flirting with the idea of becoming an ensemble show with a whole crew of costumed heroes with their own troubles and triumphs, season four has been Oliver's story through and through. The writers proved that this was their intention when they killed Laurel mid-season, and they've done so again in this finale

We began the season with everyone but Oliver fighting on the streets of Star City, we end with him and Felicity alone in the Arrow Cave. This year has marked the character's descent from Oliver 'normal suburban guy' Queen right back to The Hood. He tried to be the Green Arrow and bring a bit of levity (or hope) to the mission, but that hasn't worked. While his actions in Schism may have partially addressed this, it still feels like a frustrating regression.
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It doesn't help that, though a charismatic villain throughout, Dhark's ultimate plan to destroy the world was silly and ill-defined. After four seasons of people trying to destroy the world (Malcolm even admitted it was similar to his plan in season one), it's hard to care when a finale poses it as a new threat. Magic and mysticism just don't mesh well with the world Arrow has created, and I hope this is the last we see of it.

As I've said before, if this were an ensemble show, it'd be a lot better for it. ...  Having two perky tech geniuses in the Cave with Oliver could be interesting for week or two, but I obviously want Diggle back as soon as possible in season five.

Edited May 30, 2016 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

I expect this will be an unpopular opinion, but I agree that every season that Oliver continues to be kind of an asshole to his loved ones, he becomes much less sympathetic. I get that he has PTSD (although at this point every member of his team/the entire city should, and probably do, have PTSD as well), but at some point it becomes time to deal with those issues and stop taking them out on the people around you. I have SOME hope that S5 will be an improvement in that area, but while I didn't expect him to be jolly throughout S4, I think they screwed up by having him become a liar again, and then throw himself a bunch of pity parties in the last few episodes. I hoped that being the backbone post-Laurel's death would continue, then he regressed with the magic lady, then progressed at the end of the episode, and then regressed several more times, in the space of like 12 hours in-show. NO MORE PITY PARTIES, Oliver.

[looptab]

I look forward to reading some kick-ass metas from the smart people on this board  on this season's journey - character-wise: the start, the destination, the theme, the purpose. What they wanted to achieve and what they did achieve in terms of evolution. What was the point, basically - considering how it started and how it ended, and also in relation to s3.

This may or may not be because I'm not sure I actually got it myself, so reading other people's thoughts might help me, haha.

[kismet]

On 5/27/2016 at 1:04 AM, TimetravellingBW said:

All the "Flash is so much better than Arrow!1!!11!" stuff annoys me as well, given the drop in Arrow's quality can definitely be linked to the Flash and LoT starting. On top of all the narrative changes the show made, from a behind the scenes, logistics stand-point, Arrow had to share resources and sets, lost writers. Imo S3 was Arrow's weakest season  largely because MG was the sole showrunner, as opposed to S1 and 2 when there were 3 showrunners, and S4 when WM came on board. He's much better when he can work with other writers, who can soften his "plot before character" and habit of working back from big moments rather than developing stories organically. 

Also, Flash vs. Arrow isn't comparing like with like, especially last season. Last year it was comparing a single season of a show with constant resources and effort poured into it, versus a S3 show that's suddenly put on the backburner and not really bothered with. I don't watch Flash but have definitely heard Season 2 is weaker than Season 1, so let's see where it goes in the long run. (Compared to Arrow, which - before it became a launchpad rather than a story - only got better in Season 2.)  I'd like to see how Flash would handle their S3, if they were treated like Arrow was. 

I will have to say that even in the dark days of s3, I still felt like Arrow s3 was an overall better season of writing, plot & character growth than Flash s2. I've watched them both, minus the 2 eps I missed of Flash this season. Ras was not the best executed villain and his motivations were flexible, but he was definitely better than "Jay Garrick"/Zoom once you look at the whole season. Fs2 basically resorted to the same plot every week, had BA talk & cry a lot about the timeforce and then copy their s1 finale. Arrow may have had too much plot in s3, but at least it had plots. Looking back on Fs2, there is not much plot besides Team Flash being duped again by a "friend" and having BA run again to altruistically save the world, so he can destroy it again 5 secs later for personal reasons. OQ saved the SC again, at the risk of his own life, selflessly - because it was the right thing to do. Bonus points to Arrow writers for finding a different way than s1 or s2. It's now been 4 seasons of OQ & TA saving SC and never have they resorted to a running race or a redeux of their previous season ending/Villain.

On As3, at least all the characters had some type of character growth and development. The characters were recognizably different after s3. It moved all of their characters forward. On Flash s2, we got Patty (who left) & Wally who made the Wests angsty for a few eps until everybody mellowed out and Joe became Father of the year again, while Iris went back to being invisible. Cisco is still the same guy, nothing new for him. Caitlin perhaps now has PTSD, but still let's face it her main role is to be the girl that loses the guy and is sad for most of the season. Will PTSD really be that different of an emotion for her with these writers? At the end of Fs2, everybody is exactly where they were in s1. Not an ounce of growth on any of them.

I get that the Flash is more popular for reasons most likely unrelated to quality. But at the end of the day, it's really frustrating that critics/articles/media can't seem to differentiate that there is not a direct correlation between popularity and quality. McDonald's is also very popular, but that doesn't mean its quality. People may love going to McDonalds, but most people wouldn't rank it as a quality choice. Arrow & Flash are part of the same genre, but to compare them is really comparing apples & oranges at this point. If people really wanted to make a fair comparison, look at As2 v. Fs2 and then tell me which one overall had the better, more complex story & characters.

[kismet]

So the Larry King interviews were interesting. I love to see SA's reactions when he gets questions where you can see his actual self warring with his PR self.

That being said, Salt & Vinegar Chips are amazing, hardly a guiltly pleasure - but rather an underappreciated snack of goodness.

Also, I don't want to get into the whole controversy again, but do people in Canada really talk that much about Texas? Everybody I've ever met from Canada, has not seemed to be as obsessed with Texas as SA would like to think. Maybe its just his circle of friends or maybe just him finding a way to be a stubborn ass on TV again. Let it go SA, Texas does not need you as their personal defender of honor.

[Sunshine]

I agree Texas doesn't need SA to defend it but perhaps HE hears a lot of remarks from HIS Canadian friends and acquaintances because he married a Texan and he enjoys visiting Texas.  I live in a southern state (not Texas) and none of my friends are particularly uneducated or ignorant but often the reaction when meeting others from outside the South is that we must be because of stereotypical attitudes.  I travel a good bit and find the condescending attitudes once I say where I am from almost laughable. The international ones usually get their ideas from American TV shows.  Not everyone does this but it happens more often than you might think.       

[FurryFury]

Imagine seeing a stereotype of your home region all.the.freaking.time. And wrong. Oh so wrong.

That's what it's like to be Russian.

For my money, I'd love to visit Texas one day, and I sure as hell won't stereotype :) 

[kismet]

1 hour ago, Sunshine said:

I agree Texas doesn't need SA to defend it but perhaps HE hears a lot of remarks from HIS Canadian friends and acquaintances because he married a Texan and he enjoys visiting Texas.  I live in a southern state (not Texas) and none of my friends are particularly uneducated or ignorant but often the reaction when meeting others from outside the South is that we must be because of stereotypical attitudes.  I travel a good bit and find the condescending attitudes once I say where I am from almost laughable. The international ones usually get their ideas from American TV shows.  Not everyone does this but it happens more often than you might think.       

Perhaps. I see your points. It must just be his circle of friends that rag on Texas in particular. Because I really can't imagine an entire country being obsessed with one American state.

I just think he was given an opportunity to be vague and he chose to very specific for whatever personal reasons. Perhaps, he should have just said that some people get the stereotypes of regions wrong. I mean he said Americans get wrong about Canada is that it is not that cold all the time. That's about as vague as you can get.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Aren't his friends American? Obviously his cousin and his fiancée are Canadians but other than that..

[Sunshine]

Born and raised Canadian.  Lives in Vancouver the better part of the year. My guess would be he knows one or two more Canadians even if we never see them interact on social media.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I know he was born and raised in Canada but he lives in LA, he talked about how he left his life behind when he left Toronto and I doubt the Canadian people he happens to meet because of his job nag him about the fact that he married a Texan. It would be kinda pushing boundaries.

[Chaser]

Whenever he talks TX I just think he man crushes Jared Padelacki pretty hard. 

[Morrigan2575]

53 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Whenever he talks TX I just think he man crushes Jared Padelacki pretty hard. 

can you blame him?  LOL

[wonderwall]

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

can you blame him?  LOL

If I never watched Supernatural and only saw him on Gilmore Girls I'd say yes :p

But I did watch Supernatural. So no :p

ETA: I don't understand the point of my post...

Edited May 30, 2016 by wonderwall

[Chaser]

Nope. No blame at all. 

[kismet]

I didn't watch either of those shows and I can't blame anyone for a crush on Jared.

[TwistedandBored]

16 hours ago, FurryFury said:

Imagine seeing a stereotype of your home region all.the.freaking.time. And wrong. Oh so wrong.

That's what it's like to be Russian.

For my money, I'd love to visit Texas one day, and I sure as hell won't stereotype :) 

Imagine what it like to be from Somalia and have every show/movie depict the country as a hotbed for terrorists and a wasteland. I am not even gonna on into my religion because..yeah. No. 

I have few family member that live in Texas and I asked them if they experience any discrimination and they haven't. However, I am not going to discredit those who have experience discrimination in that State just because some people haven't experienced themselves. 

[Morrigan2575]

Sorry I don't have the source for this but, you got to laugh. Arrow really is the Ugly Red Headed Step Child.  LOL

Edited May 31, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Even LoT didn't care all that much about the Hawks. WTF are they doing taking up two slots in the extras? Yuck.