The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

FanFest review of 423 (a very positive critique, but clearly in the minority)...

‘Arrow’ Recap ‘Schism’
BY JULIA VALENTI   MAY 25, 2016
http://fanfest.com/2016/05/25/arrow-recap-schism/

Quote

Well, my fellow Arrow fans, Season Four has certainly been full of more than a handful of twists and surprises and unfortunately tonight, it has come to an end. I will say, that this Season finale has been one of the best episodes of Arrow ever. I know I have said this before, but I genuinely mean it, this episode is definitely on my Top 3 list. This episode had absolutely everything that I could ask for in a Season finale, and it has certainly left us with a lot of questions? Think you may have missed something? Let me bring you up to speed!
*  *  *
I am totally and completely mind-blown by this Season finale. It was absolutely amazing. Although I am sad to see Neal McDonough go, I look forward to seeing what Season 5 will bring. These next few months are going to be excruciatingly painful, but it will definitely give me something to look forward to. Phenomenal job to everyone who had a part in this season of Arrow. Overall, this season was absolutely amazing. This finale, especially, had all the makings of a fantastic finale. 10/10 in my books!!

Edited May 26, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Just About Write review of 423 (too lengthy to decide what to quote)...

Arrow 4x23 Review: "Schism" (Be Your Own Light)
Just About Write  May 25, 2016
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2016/05/arrow-4x23-review-schism-be-your-own.html

[tv echo]

Yahoo! TV review of 423...

‘Arrow’ Finale Recap: 15,000 Nuclear Bombs, 1 Arrow
Robert Chan  May 26, 2016
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/arrow-finale-recap-darhk-dead-oliver-becomes-mayor-131140251.html

Quote

Despite the inanity of the “all the world’s nuclear weapons” plot, the Season 4 finale does right by the characters, leaving them all to deal with the emotional baggage of the season. It’s been a tough year and, although Oliver worries that his darkness is infecting those around him, it seems like it’s the other way around.
*  *  *
WWLD

After Darhk is defeated, the team starts peeling off. Quentin has his suspension lifted, but thinking of Laurel makes him reconsider becoming a cop, so he’s leaving with Donna. Thea realizes how over the line threatening a little girl’s life is, asks herself What Would Laurel Do, and decides to take a vacation, too. Diggle doesn’t think about Laurel, but he does think about how he killed his brother and takes a break — albeit, in full military regalia.

Oliver says he thinks everyone has been infected by his own “personal darkness,” but he has been the one consistently trying to live in the light. Thea brought a bloodlust back from the Lazarus Pit, Diggle took it upon himself to kill his own brother, and Quentin colluded with Darhk to save his daughter. At the end of the day, though, it was his inspiring words to the people of Star City that made the difference. Felicity calls it a schism — the war between the killer and the inspiration. The show has always believed — despite Oliver’s oath — that killing is necessary. Perhaps next season, we’ll see more of the inspirational side of Green Arrow.
*  *  *
Even though next season will probably have a crossover every other week now that the CW has four superhero shows with the addition of Supergirl, would anybody mind if Constantine became a permanent addition to the Arrow cast? If anyone in the DC Universe could cure Ollie of his endless guilt-fest…
*  *  *
Line of the Night: “Back at our place, th- my place. The- the place. The loft.” You booted him out, girl! Stick to your guns! It’s no longer a shared space, it’s Feli-City!

Edited May 26, 2016 by tv echo

[NumberCruncher]

So basically what I'm getting from all these reviews is that introduction of the supernatural element has put Arrow in a no-win situation.  Basically, the worst thing that ever happened to Arrow was The Flash...which isn't inaccurate.

[lion10]

12 hours ago, EmeraldArcher said:

I feel like any reviewer who uses "Ollie" instead of "Oliver" really doesn't pay attention to the show. At all. Reviewers who use "Ollie" simply have different expectations from the show and will never be happy with it because that's not who Oliver is in this version.

What do you mean?  Ollie, Oliver, who cares?

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

Basically, the worst thing that ever happened to Arrow was The Flash...which isn't inaccurate.

The worst thing that ever happened to Arrow IMO was keeping Malcolm alive beyond the end of S1. Or if I'm being generous, not having Moira off him at the first available opportunity in S2. 

[AyChihuahua]

5 hours ago, looptab said:

^I agree that she has always been in the "do what you have to do" camp and wasn't so much against killing as she was supporting Oliver's resolve. And I also get how sometimes people forget all the examples you brought up, given that she is the one who brings light to Oliver's life. The part that gives me pause and makes me think the reviewer is not that far off in thinking they shift her as they see fit, though, it's that bit about taking on a little darkness. I didn't think they would go with that, especially not with her. 

She was only with the team for a few weeks and she was fine with Oliver killing that dirty landlord guy. The Savior just killed him first. I think her rule is basically only kill if you have to and/or kill killers. Don't kill stock market manipulators if you can help it.

[lemotomato]

39 minutes ago, lion10 said:

What do you mean?  Ollie, Oliver, who cares?

Reviewers that use "Ollie" tend to have comic canon-centric biases, and judge the show based on how faithfully it follows comics instead of by its own merits.

[wonderwall]

Oh Stephen lol

[lemotomato]

SA is banging that "back to the basics, stop using my show to set up others" drum pretty hard. Here's another interview with a dad blog:

Quote

Now we got eleven superhero shows on TV. Every new show is some form of a superhero show. I am just glad that we pushed the envelope. I feel like we have been burdened is the wrong word, but we have been tasked with introducing a variety of new shows. I think that on occasion that forced us to not step out of our comfort zone necessarily, but pulled us away from some of the stuff that we do really well because our show is so specific.

It is about a guy on the street level with no superpowers. It is important going forward that Legends (of Tomorrow) is up and running, Supergirl is established, and The Flash is up and running that we get back to and keep our focus on the things that Arrow really does well.

[looptab]

He has no f*cks to give anymore, apparently.

Unrelated, but I also read an excerpt of an interview - don't have the link - where he was talking about his family and how his daughter is the number one priority, and basically he said that in the past, because of his career, occasionally he gave too much importance to things that didn't warrant it - thus neglecting the family. That makes me super curious of what he could be referring to, haha. I mean, no one is pointing a gun to your head to go to a con every other week-end.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I remember he said in an interview (the one with Aisha Tayler I think) that when he got the part for Arrow his agent told him it was going to be a big commitment and he wasn't going to have time for a personal life for a while and he said that it was exactly what he was looking for. I guess he meant that now that he has a kid he wouldn't take jobs like that. Still no one is making him do cons, especially while they are filming leaving him with zero time with his family. I also don't understand why they don't live together in Vancouver but I also don't really care, LOL.

[apinknightmare]

His fatherhood is a big part of his image, so maybe the "I'm giving up this other stuff because being a dad is the most important thing in my life" is part of that, and not really specific to anything? Because yeah. He chooses to go to cons and do wine events and whatnot, and that seems to be the only thing he's up to that could eat into family time. Maybe there was something else going on in the past. 

Maybe he used to bring things home with him mentally and that distracted him. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

This is pretty vicious, but funny and IMO accurate. Compares the "hope conquers the bad guy" to a bad My Little Pony plot.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-arrow-season-4-finale-recap-20160525-snap-story.html

[lemotomato]

29 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

This is pretty vicious, but funny and IMO accurate. Compares the "hope conquers the bad guy" to a bad My Little Pony plot.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-arrow-season-4-finale-recap-20160525-snap-story.html

From the review:

Quote

Why show such slavish dedication to a broken story arc, why make your viewers sit through a “light can overcome the darkness” plot best suited for a Saturday morning cartoon

Really? He loves Flash and thinks it's so much better than Arrow it's "in another league", but he going to mock Arrow's "Saturday morning cartoon" plot? Okay then.

Edited May 26, 2016 by lemotomato

[Sakura12]

The Flash isn't a Saturday morning cartoon, The Flash is a children's book. 

See, Barry Run.
Barry runs fast. 
Run Barry Run

Edited May 27, 2016 by Sakura12

[Chaser]

I have a weird reaction to Arrow being slammed. Even if I agree with the points, I want to say "Shut up! Only I can say my show is stupid!" Lol

It also bugs because they love to point out how superior Flash which is annoying due to the fact that a lot of problems for Arrow started with The Flash. Narratively, logistically. Their success got hijacked. That never gets talked about. 

[lemotomato]

14 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I have a weird reaction to Arrow being slammed. Even if I agree with the points, I want to say "Shut up! Only I can say my show is stupid!" Lol

It also bugs because they love to point out how superior Flash which is annoying due to the fact that a lot of problems for Arrow started with The Flash. Narratively, logistically. Their success got hijacked. That never gets talked about. 

It's a dumb show, but it's MY dumb show. 

I don't mind Arrow getting criticized if it's fair criticism. I actually thought the finale was silly too. But I'm not also going around saying Flash is soooooo superior, when in reality its plots are just as silly and repetitive. 

[AyChihuahua]

I think both The Flash and Arrow are pretty idiotic now, but I still care about Arrow, because I used to love it. I never loved The Flash.

[Morena]

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

It's a dumb show, but it's MY dumb show. 

I don't mind Arrow getting criticized if it's fair criticism. I actually thought the finale was silly too. But I'm not also going around saying Flash is soooooo superior, when in reality its plots are just as silly and repetitive. 

you know the answer. because comics.

[TimetravellingBW]

5 hours ago, Chaser said:

I have a weird reaction to Arrow being slammed. Even if I agree with the points, I want to say "Shut up! Only I can say my show is stupid!" Lol

It also bugs because they love to point out how superior Flash which is annoying due to the fact that a lot of problems for Arrow started with The Flash. Narratively, logistically. Their success got hijacked. That never gets talked about. 

All the "Flash is so much better than Arrow!1!!11!" stuff annoys me as well, given the drop in Arrow's quality can definitely be linked to the Flash and LoT starting. On top of all the narrative changes the show made, from a behind the scenes, logistics stand-point, Arrow had to share resources and sets, lost writers. Imo S3 was Arrow's weakest season  largely because MG was the sole showrunner, as opposed to S1 and 2 when there were 3 showrunners, and S4 when WM came on board. He's much better when he can work with other writers, who can soften his "plot before character" and habit of working back from big moments rather than developing stories organically. 

Also, Flash vs. Arrow isn't comparing like with like, especially last season. Last year it was comparing a single season of a show with constant resources and effort poured into it, versus a S3 show that's suddenly put on the backburner and not really bothered with. I don't watch Flash but have definitely heard Season 2 is weaker than Season 1, so let's see where it goes in the long run. (Compared to Arrow, which - before it became a launchpad rather than a story - only got better in Season 2.)  I'd like to see how Flash would handle their S3, if they were treated like Arrow was. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[Belinea]

12 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Still no one is making him do cons, especially while they are filming leaving him with zero time with his family. I also don't understand why they don't live together in Vancouver but I also don't really care, LOL.

I thought they go with him most of the time. He always travels with an 'entourage'. (I don't mean that in a rude way) But wherever he goes he seems to not only be accompanied by his family but also by his best friend and his family. So, while he doesn't have to do the cons, he likes it for various reason and let's be honest, he probably earns some additional money. 

As for Vancouver, and this should be taken with a grain of salt, I read that he and his wife don't like the city. But they have a place there or at least a rental one that the folks at the CW pay for.

[Midnight Lullaby]

5 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I thought they go with him most of the time. He always travels with an 'entourage'. (I don't mean that in a rude way) But wherever he goes he seems to not only be accompanied by his family but also by his best friend and his family. So, while he doesn't have to do the cons, he likes it for various reason and let's be honest, he probably earns some additional money. 

As for Vancouver, and this should be taken with a grain of salt, I read that he and his wife don't like the city. But they have a place there or at least a rental one that the folks at the CW pay for.

They always go with him when there is a NP party that is sort of a family business (his and his friend's family) but even when they go that's not exactly family time..

I heard too that his wife doesn't live there because she doesn't like the city and prefers to live in LA.

They can do what they want, I don't really care, but when he says stuff about wanting to dedicate more time to his family my first thought is "well you can, do it." If that's your top priority do less cons and you all stay in Vancouver while Arrow is filming, no one is stopping you. They don't lack money and his wife is an actress but hasn't been working. 

[looptab]

13 hours ago, looptab said:

Unrelated, but I also read an excerpt of an interview - don't have the link - where he was talking about his family and how his daughter is the number one priority, and basically he said that in the past, because of his career, occasionally he gave too much importance to things that didn't warrant it - thus neglecting the family. That makes me super curious of what he could be referring to, haha. I mean, no one is pointing a gun to your head to go to a con every other week-end.

13 hours ago, lemotomato said:

SA is banging that "back to the basics, stop using my show to set up others" drum pretty hard. Here's another interview with a dad blog:

The excerpt I read was from this link^ @lemotomato posted right above my previous post (I just noticed it, freaking board making me miss posts!).

Here's the part I was referring to:

Quote

[...]Once she was born it really made life so much simpler. I say that to people and they look at me sideways because they think kids are so much work. Obviously, they are. At the same time at points in my career I feel like my priorities got out of whack. I gave credence and attention to things that didn’t necessarily need it.

Now she is my number one priority at all times. That will never change. It then becomes way easier to slot everything else where it should be in your life. My daughter first. My wife and my family second. If she hears this she would agree with me. She would say the same thing. Everything else falls where it should. Shooting arrows is important. Having a career is important. If it doesn’t fall in line with priority number on and priority number two than f*** it. I don’t care. I just say no. It just made my life a lot simpler and the path a lot clearer. My inclination to work hard becomes much easier because I know who I am working hard for.

You guys are probably right that it was more of a mental thing, or I misunderstood and he was referring to a time before his daughter was born - meaning that now he has his priorities straight. I don't know, on first reading I thought it might have been referred to something post-Arrow. :)

I agree about the cons and living arrangements. I mean, good for you if you like it and even better that there's money in it. But then what's the point in complaining that you don't get enough time with your family, when it's basically your own doing? 

 

16 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

She was only with the team for a few weeks and she was fine with Oliver killing that dirty landlord guy. The Savior just killed him first. I think her rule is basically only kill if you have to and/or kill killers. Don't kill stock market manipulators if you can help it.

Sure, I get that. It was more of a general surprise with the final conclusion the show has drawn - which I wasn't expecting. 

[tv echo]

We Minored In Film review of 423 (this is a good read) - makes a Flash comparison but Arrow comes out on top! (also makes an Angel comparison that I didn't quote)...

Reacting to Arrow’s Season 4 Finale: A Change Will Do Them Good
Posted on May 26, 2016 by Kelly Konda
https://weminoredinfilm.com/2016/05/26/reacting-to-arrows-season-4-finale-a-change-will-do-them-good/

Quote

As Arrow‘s fourth season came to a close with the team splintering apart, leaving only Oliver and Felicity behind to assess the wreckage and plot a hazy new political future with him as the Star City mayor, it occurred to me that there might have been a more fitting musical accompaniment to this closing montage. Blake Neely’s somber score certainly did the trick, but they could have also played Sheryl Crowe’s “A Change Would Do You Good” underneath it all.
*  *  *
Actually, maybe hold off on that. I don’t actually think the sequence would have been improved by that song; I think the song communicates the perfect sentiment, not just for these characters but also the entire show.
*  *  *
After a season which began so promisingly before sputtering out in an oddly weightless doomsday scenario in “Schism” (S4:E23), a change will most certainly do Arrow good.
*  *  *
But after all of that intense planning, coordination, wire-work and editing we are left with a scene which is ultimately just like something this show had already done before. This one was clearly bigger, but The Dark Knight Rises-esque moment of the city’s everday people rising up against the bad guy and helping the hero already happened halfway through season 3. There was also Sara and the League of Assassins vs. Slade and his super strong followers at the end of season 2, although at least there it was ultimately trained soldiers vs. trained soldiers

It’s an example of how this show’s admirable impulse to escalate in scale each season has ultimately resulted in repetitive drama which might have grown too large for them to properly corral. We’d previously encountered three big bads who ultimately aimed to destroy Star City (or at least a part of it), and season four’s attempt to break that cycle overcompensated exponentially, taking us all the way up to a villain who wanted to nuke the entire planet.
*  *  *
... Oliver’s “we shall overcome” sentiment is welcome, but at that moment neither Oliver nor anyone in that crowd had any idea Felicity and Curtis figured out how to save them. As far as they knew, they were all, to echo Ortiz’ vocabulary, fucked. It shouldn’t have been “This too shall pass” but instead “Let’s go out with pride.”
*  *  *
That’s a huge reason why a change would do them good. After all, where can you possibly go, dramatically, after the end of the world? That’s a perfect time to blow everything up, re-focus on the characters and put at least one foot down in something closer to reality.
*  *  *
Oliver being Star City’s interim mayor obviously doesn’t mean Arrow is about to become Veep. But it will provide the writers an opportunity to devise new conflicts, settings and drama, even as we suspect this won’t last long and will ultimately be another arena where Oliver struggles to balance his public and private lives. Functionally, Oliver’s time as mayor could be as insignificant and ignored on-screen as his time as Queen Consolidated CEO in the second season. Still, it’s something different at a time when I really needed this show to change things up.

Similarly, I feel as if I have lost a sense of who these characters are as people away from Team Arrow. There are seemingly minor, nitpicky little details which have completely fallen away and add up over time. For example, do we even know where these people live these days? ...
*  *  *
A change would do all of them good, and not just for the sake of changing things. After elevating the stakes so high in these last couple of episodes the show needed to honor the inevitable emotional fallout, and seeing Diggle and Thea walk away from the team to re-find their purpose was the most interesting thing to happen to either character in quite a while.
*  *  *
It’s odd the way this all played out in Berlanti superhero TV universe. This week, between The Flash and Arrow we had two season finales and two twist endings promising very different futures. Only one of those futures seems worth exploring though. Barry Allen made a choice to save someone, consequences be damned, a full season after it would have actually made sense dramatically, and now The Flash looks like a show which has lost its way. Arrow, meanwhile, delivered an overly familiar finale which ended in such a way that I’m surprised to say this, but I’m not only intrigued but excited about where they might go with this in season 5.
*  *  *
5. Olicity: I’m glad they resisted the urge to have those two reunite romantically, but I could see some arguing there was no better time for these two to make up than the end of the world.

Edited May 27, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Five additional video clips of SA's May 6, 2016 interview on Larry King Now were posted today (May 27)...
http://www.ora.tv/larrykingnow/guests/stephen-amell

SA on Olicity Then, Now and In the Future [VIDEO]
http://www.ora.tv/larrykingnow/2016/5/27/stephen-amell-on-olicity-then-now-and-in-the-future

Is an ‘Arrow’ movie happening? Stephen Amell responds [VIDEO]
http://www.ora.tv/larrykingnow/2016/5/27/is-an-arrow-movie-happening-stephen-amell-responds

If You Only Knew: Stephen Amell [VIDEO]
http://www.ora.tv/larrykingnow/2016/5/27/if-you-only-knew-stephen-amell

Stephen Amell on ‘Arrow’ fandom: Twitter negativity is overblown [VIDEO]
http://www.ora.tv/larrykingnow/2016/5/27/stephen-amell-on-arrow-fandom-twitter-negativity-is-overblown

How Stephen Amell feels about Drake calling himself the “6 God” [VIDEO]
http://www.ora.tv/larrykingnow/2016/5/27/how-stephen-amell-feels-about-drake-calling-himself-the-6-god

FYI, here's the 2013 interview with SA, GB and Larry King talking about "Olicity":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MImkNo73o-o

Edited May 27, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Craig Wack's review of 423...

Arrow Review: Queen Stands Alone
BY CRAIG WACK · MAY 26, 2016
http://oohlo.com/2016/05/26/arrow-review-queen-stands-alone/

Quote

Instead of a lot of introspection and navel gazing in its finale, Arrow (as has been its tradition) went more for wall-to-wall action under the threat of nuclear war. It was a good choice that hid some of the flaws that come about when trying to stop modern warfare and black magic.
*  *  *
While there wasn’t a ton of character work done in this episode, what was there is significant to the future of the show. Team Arrow has been through the wringer this season and between the prospects of perishing in a nuclear blast and the opportunity to take a breath once the Darhk threat was eliminated, most of the team decides it needs some time.
*  *  *
... Even Ollie goes through a major change. Thanks to his speech and his popularity in the last election, Oliver is appointed mayor of Star City and takes the oath. The only constant is Felicity, who declares her faithfulness to Team Arrow to the end.
*  *  *
- Despite Laurel being mentioned – a lot – but not seen, it was interesting that Katie Cassidy was still listed as a cast regular in the opening credits. That doesn’t not happen with performers who are written out of the show.
*  *  *
- Star City was so lucky that it was targeted by the one Minuteman missile in the U.S. arsenal that isn’t a MIRV (meaning each missile contains multiple warheads). Come on Arrow writers, at least make the missile launch from Cuba or some fictional rogue nation in Central America if you aren’t going to do any research.

- For those who always wanted to know exactly where Star City is located, the map showed it on the southern tip of Lake Michigan which means it’s either standing in for Chicago or more likely Gary, Ind.
*  *  *
- While we know that Felicity is steadfastly Team Arrow,  there was no concrete indication she is back on Team Ollie. You could guess after all they’ve been through, Felicity could understand the reasons why Oliver kept secrets, but with this show it’s so hard to tell.
*  *  *
Much like its CW stablemate, The Flash, it looks like big changes are in the works for the next season of Arrow. The breaking up of the team, no matter how temporary, at least felt organic given what everyone went through. As for the episode itself, it felt like Darhk got weak in a big damn hurry with not much explanation (and the HIVE goons forgot they were carrying guns), but things moved along at a good pace and the action was well put together. This finale might not have been memorable, but it at least accomplished what it set out to do.

Edited May 27, 2016 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

Watching the Larry King videos -- Steve's still totally wrong in thinking Twitter's anonymity is a special case, but his take on it being mostly "noise"? I completely agree.

Also, "the fandom has separated into factions" as if this is surprising? Bwahahaha. Dude, you're employed by a studio that has been ENCOURAGING fandom to separate into factions since the '90s.

Edited May 27, 2016 by dtissagirl

[quarks]

Quote

 Despite Laurel being mentioned – a lot – but not seen, it was interesting that Katie Cassidy was still listed as a cast regular in the opening credits. That doesn’t not happen with performers who are written out of the show.

If her contract stated that she would be second-billed, after Amell, for the season, she would remain listed as a cast regular in the opening credits until the end of the season, and get paid for those episodes.  This used to be the standard for all television contracts, and still is the standard on some networks, although ABC and HBO both got tired of paying actors for episodes they didn't appear in, and negotiated to end this practice, creating contracts that stipulate that actors will only be paid/credited for an episode if they actually appear in it.  Other networks are now following this lead.

[looptab]

I went and checked. Susanna Thompson wasn't credited for 221, 222. but she was for 223 (since she was in that scene that ultimately got cut). But Colton was credited in 320, 321, 323, even if he wasn't in the episode. *So I'm guessing KC had something in her contract - or anyway, Arrow isn't one of those shows that features the regulars in the credits just when they are in the episode - like, for example  Gilmore Girls did.*

*Or what @quarks said :)

Edited May 27, 2016 by looptab

[tv echo]

jbuffyangel review of 423 (another lengthy, in-depth analysis) - I agree in part and disagree in part...

THE SPACE BETWEEN: ARROW 4X23 REVIEW (SCHISM) 
MAY 27, 2016 @ 06:30
http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/145001035573/the-space-between-arrow-4x23-review-schism

Quote

The conclusion of Arrow’s fourth season left me in a rather interesting place. There was a lot I loved about the finale. There were some things I didn’t love. I ended the episode feeling hopeful, but unsatisfied.  I am living in the space between love and hate, hope and sadness, satisfaction and annoyance. It’s as if I’m dealing with my own schism as it relates to the story… not unlike Oliver Queen.
*  *  *
And FYI - if you didn’t come back from Ivy Town, Laurel & crew would’ve been killed by Darhk a long time ago. It’s the whole reason LAUREL came to get you.  I realize the pretty bird is dead, but can we maintain some semblance of perspective? Jeez dude. And you didn’t lose Felicity because of the zip code you live in. You lost Felicity because you acted like a supreme jackass. You can do that anywhere, fella.
*  *  *
It shows Oliver realizes the city needs both Oliver Queen and the Green Arrow. The Green Arrow is the hand, but Oliver Queen is the heart. Both men have to fight to save the city. It’s a moment where Oliver finds a perfect balance between the two men.
*  *  *
I appreciate Arrow is submitting Laurel’s name for canonization, but can we get a grip?
*  *  *
So, is Arrow moving away from Oliver’s “No Kill” vow? They’ve decided the extreme doesn’t work and Oliver must be allowed to kill when necessary? In fact, living in extremes is impossible and Oliver needs to get comfortable in the grey?
*  *  *
However, I disagree Oliver’s darkness infected Thea and John. Everyone has their own darkness. It’s always present there whether we recognize it or not. Oliver is no more to blame for John and Thea’s darkness than they are to blame for his.
*  *  *
In Season 4, it is Team Arrow. There are parts of Star City that remained after the undertaking, but it was damaged nonetheless. There are parts of Team Arrow that survive (Oliver and Felicity), but it is damaged nonetheless (Thea and Diggle leave).

Edited May 27, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

36 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Watching the Larry King videos -- Steve's still totally wrong in thinking Twitter's anonymity is a special case, but his take on it being mostly "noise"? I completely agree.

Also, "the fandom has separated into factions" as if this is surprising? Bwahahaha. Dude, you're employed by a studio that has been ENCOURAGING fandom to separate into factions since the '90s.

I "liked" how he avoided to answer the actual question about Olicity, haha. Anyway, I don't think he was aware that fandom worked like that before being involved in Arrow. I didn't even know that, lol, I mean, I knew there were factions and shit but I had no idea how vicious it could get. :)

Also worth noting he is still Texas #1 supporter. #NotAllTexans.

Edited May 27, 2016 by looptab

[quarks]

5 minutes ago, looptab said:

I went and checked. Susanna Thompson wasn't credited for 221, 222. but she was for 223 (since she was in that scene that ultimately got cut). But Colton was credited in 320, 321, 323, even if he wasn't in the episode. So I'm guessing KC had something in her contract - or anyway, Arrow isn't one of those shows that features the regulars in the credits just when they are in the episode - like, for example  Gilmore Girls did.

Yeah - Katie Cassidy was previously credited for episodes that she didn't appear in. John Barrowman has been credited for a number of episodes that he didn't appear in, and Colin Donnell and Paul Blackthorne were credited for at least one episode where they didn't actually appear. The 100 has done this with some of their actors as well.

As said, this used to be standard industry practice - it was mostly used as a way to lock in the actor for X months and guarantee that the actor wouldn't try to pick up side projects, and it was useful if - as happened, for instance, on Dynasty a few times, someone got very very high, forcing a last minute rewrite/scene change, where the producers could call in the sober yet fully contracted actors.  It also works well with smaller and ensemble casts.  Where it falls apart is with something like Game of Thrones and Lost, very expensive, long running shows with huge, huge casts with actors who need to be given regular billing to ensure that they will stick around for years - but which can't feature every regular cast member in every episode simply thanks to the sheer size of the cast and the separate locations, or, in Lost's case, the flashback episode format, which focused on different characters in different locations each episode. So those contracts eliminated this practice from the beginning. 

One major difference here, of course, is that ABC and HBO also pay more per episode than the CW does. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

LOL, Stephen if you want to make people believe you don't care about what people on Twitter say you should probably stop mentioning it over and over again.

[looptab]

7 minutes ago, quarks said:

 Game of Thrones and Lost,

Lost, too? Uh, I never noticed :) I didn't notice the first two seasons of Game of Thrones either - I used to always skip the credits - but now it's the most useful tool to know what I can expect from an episode. 

Back to the point, I guess I get why the reviewer would wonder about her being credited, but as you said it's not like this is unprecedented, so stop harping about it in every review! His mind will only be at peace when he sees the credits for S5 :)

[Ceylon5]

13 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

LOL, Stephen if you want to make people believe you don't care about what people on Twitter say you should probably stop mentioning it over and over again.

To be fair, he was just responding to the question being asked.  What's disingenuous of him is that he knows that the comments on Facebook are just as bad as on Twitter, but he always singles out Twitter as the place where manners and good sense go to die.  To me, as someone on neither platform, I find visiting Facebook to be far worse, because the horrible comments and rudeness are all neatly laid out for easy reading and are not as easy to avoid as on Twitter, which is a bit of a free-for-all, and not so easy to make sense of.

[apinknightmare]

I haven't watched this interview, but based on what he's said in the past, he doesn't like people posting their opinion without being "brave enough" to put their name on it. He mistakenly believes that people don't have dummy accounts over on Facebook. And I don't think he'll ever say a bad word about that site anyway, because he seems to want to be BFFs with the company desperately. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 minutes ago, Ceylon5 said:

To be fair, he was just responding to the question being asked.  What's disingenuous of him is that he knows that the comments on Facebook are just as bad as on Twitter, but he always singles out Twitter as the place where manners and good sense go to die.  To me, as someone on neither platform, I find visiting Facebook to be far worse, because the horrible comments and rudeness are all neatly laid out for easy reading and are not as easy to avoid as on Twitter, which is a bit of a free-for-all, and not so easy to make sense of.

But the question wasn't about Twitter. It was about the fans and their reactions on the Internet and he managed to use the word "Twitter" like five times in his answer. And it isn't nearly the first time he goes on and on about how awful Twitter is, with or without questions. If you aren't bothered by it why bringing it up at every occasion?

[wonderwall]

Some hard hitting journalism right here lmao

[quarks]

20 minutes ago, looptab said:

Lost, too? Uh, I never noticed :) I didn't notice the first two seasons of Game of Thrones either - I used to always skip the credits - but now it's the most useful tool to know what I can expect from an episode. 

Back to the point, I guess I get why the reviewer would wonder about her being credited, but as you said it's not like this is unprecedented, so stop harping about it in every review! His mind will only be at peace when he sees the credits for S5 :)

 

Studies have shown that most viewers pay no attention to the names in the opening credits, so you're not alone there.

[Ceylon5]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Some hard hitting journalism right here lmao

Hallelujah!  Does this mean that there's no more Arrow sub-reddit and they'll just stop talking about it?  Holding thumbs!

[apinknightmare]

They will never stop talking about it. 

[tv echo]

Once again, a reviewer complains about the Olicity story being "annoyingly dominant" on Arrow and the show having "melodramatic soap-opera leanings", and yet when I read about the old and now new GA comics, the GA/BC romance is heavily featured (with some of the cheesiest dialogue I've ever read)...

Review: Arrow – Season 4
BY RICHARD GRAY  · MAY 26, 2016
http://www.thereelbits.com/2016/05/26/review-arrow-season-4/

Quote

... Partially influenced by sister show The Flash, also produced by Greg Berlanti and his colleagues, ARROW was allowed to drift away from the grounded grittiness and introduce metahumans and broader comic book concepts. Yet it still remains somewhat stuck in the grooves of its own formula, even if it is now heading firmly in the right direction.

...  It’s the first time that the show has fully embraced the idea of a not completely human foe, with magic a massive part of Darhk’s oeuvre, and this is mostly a positive addition.

Even so, the fourth season of ARROW struggled tonally, at once trying to be a stepping stone to spin-off series Legends of Tomorrow; forge a new identity that was distinct from the fully ‘grounded’ tone of the first three seasons; and also still maintain the narrative structure that both intrigued and hampered in the preceding years. Take for example the episode “Haunted,” mostly designed as a nod to fans and a chance to add John Constantine (Matt Ryan) into the Arrowverse following the cancellation of his own show. The regular flashbacks allowed for the introduction of the character and the notion of magic into the Ollie’s past, so that Constantine could come in and save the day in the present. Yet this simply exacerbated one of the main problems troubling this series, that the dedication to this idea of flashbacks had become a major burden by the show’s third season. In this fourth year, they feel almost entirely perfunctory. In the first half of the year, it also was difficult to get satisfactorily tipsy in any drinking game that required naming anything of any importance that didn’t just set up Legends of Tomorrow.
*  *  *
Yet to concentrate on these imbalances is to sell this keystone series short, as it remains the backbone of the Greg Berlanti productions for a reason, and not just because it was there first. The show kept us on the hook successfully for the majority of the season by teasing a funeral early on, but delivering a gut-punch in the last half-dozen episodes by claiming an unlikely victim. As annoyingly dominant as the ‘Olicity’ love story can be on occasion, the persistence of this fan coupling on screen gave us some of the deeper comic book pulls of the season when Felicity was temporarily unable to walk, instantly summoning a ‘Oracle’ vibe. Ollie’s candidacy for mayor is an interpretation of a classic Elliot S. Maggin (and later Judd Winick) storyline, and it always feels like it is being done with respect for that legacy. Watching animated spin-off Vixen (played by Megalyn Echikunwoke) in live action was literally watching a comic character come to life. More to the point, the wonderful Neal McDonough as Darhk provided a much-needed focus for the show as a singular villain, even if his ultimate plot was a bigger version of the first season’s threat, something the show itself is quick to acknowledge.

The finale, “Schism,” raised the stakes against the city so high that it is hard to know how the show can possibly top it. Indeed, it’s a problem the season leaves us to ponder until Season 5 kicks off in October 2016: where can ARROW go from here? The answer comes almost entirely in a handful of scenes that feature Oliver Queen outside of costume, leading us to believe that the duality of Ollie’s persona is going to be front and centre next season. On the other hand, the season kind of just comes to a conclusion rather than a cliffhanger or a resolution, giving us no real roadmap of what to expect. Perhaps the only true clue of more comic cookery to come was the season’s introduction of comic relief character Curtis Holt (Echo Kellum), destined in the funny books to become Mr. Terrific. ARROW has a lot to overcome from its recent history: the overly melodramatic soap-opera leanings, the heavy reliance on flashbacks and a series of characters (we’re looking at you John Diggle) that have outstayed their original purpose. Yet none of that seems to feel like a hurdle to the series, which doesn’t end on the same optimistic vibe the previous season did, but nevertheless feels like it is biding its time before it becomes… something else.

Edited May 27, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

I mean..

1)it's not like the plot holes have started just this year

2) is the decline of the stunts scenes Felicity's fault too? Olicity's? The allotted time for action in the episode it's the same.

But sure, the action has sucked this year because of the drama.

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 5: What The Superhero Show Needs To Do To Improve
Kayti Burt 5/26/2016 at 2:21PM
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow/255739/arrow-season-5-what-the-superhero-show-needs-to-do-to-improve

Here are her bullet points:

• Either abandon or restructure the flashbacks.
• Lose the supernatural aspects & return to gritty realism.
• Bring back the class warfare framework.
• Give us better villains — or no supervillain at all.
• Start taking more narrative chances.

[AyChihuahua]

Twitter is unhappy at POCs being told by a rich white dude that Texans are super-nice.

[tv echo]

Three If By Space review of 423...

Arrow 423 Review: “Schism” Bit Off More Than It Could Chew
By: Alisha Bjorklund    May 26, 2016
http://www.threeifbyspace.net/2016/05/arrow-423-review-schism-bit-off-chew/#.V0hZNfkrLIU

Quote

This week’s Arrow episode finished up Season Four in a way that left me, and probably a fair amount of other people, thinking, “So . . . that happened.” That’s not to say we didn’t get our expected closure on the season-long arc, but the way that closure played out was lackluster. Nothing original or particularly memorable happened because the tactics fell to “we’ve seen this before” and “Deus ex machina.” Team Arrow prevailed, the villain died, and the world was saved. But this show used to do it better. Let’s take a closer look, staring with . . .
*  *  *
I’ve said it before in multiple reviews: I love Felicity and Curtis. Together, they are adorable and awkward nerds and usually the dialogue they deliver is highly entertaining. In this finale, however, they were given the god-like status of being able to stop thousands of nukes with the power of fast-paced hacking. The show has done this before, though not on such a huge scale. At this point it’s very obliviously a convenient way to fix an otherwise unfixable problem.
*  *  *
Even their witty dialogue and mannerisms were stunted in this episode, and I think that was primarily due to the fact that it was glaringly forced. Sure, they got to be heroes, and I love that. But Arrow introduced a problem too big for itself. Having the world face nuclear annihilation is great for raising the stakes, but these characters are limited in what they can do and have it be believable to the audience.
*  *  *
The people of Star City don’t know about Team Arrow’s magical hackers, so why would they care about uniting to help Oliver? His speech didn’t specify, “Hey everyone, I got my best hackers on it, so just worry about helping me with this super-powered bad guy.” Plus, even with the introduction of mysticism, meta-humans, and general metaphysical stuff, having to suspend my disbelief that the hope of a riot crowd was enough to weaken Darhk is too much of a stretch. However, I will defend Darhk himself. As usual, Neal McDonough did excellent work and made that character a formidable villain to the end.
*  *  *
Having Oliver and Felicity as the last two members of the team is a schism in itself—the fans will either love or hate that decision. This season has focused a lot of their relationship, and does serve the purpose of coming full circle (they started together and ended together). I’m going to remain neutral on this until I see where Season Five takes them.
*  *  *
I give this episode 7 out of 10. It was an underwhelming finale that alternated between tired tactics and way too convenient solutions. It wrapped up the season well enough and introduced drastic changes to Team Arrow that could mean interesting things in Season Five. I’m not too optimistic at present, but I still hope for the best. Isn’t that what Oliver would want?

Edited May 27, 2016 by tv echo

[Belinea]

22 minutes ago, looptab said:

is the decline of the stunts scenes Felicity's fault too

Yes, it is. Everything is her fault. Laurel is dead because of her. Malcolm is a bad villain because of her.  Oliver cannot do anything heroic without help because of her. But the most important thing it is her fault that Arrow isn't the way they want it to be. Because they want the comic book in tv form and she ruined that for them. BAD Felicity!

[Belinea]

18 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Twitter is unhappy at POCs being told by a rich white dude that Texans are super-nice.

What are they saying? Every time he says something about Texas, it kind of blows up in his face (a little or a lot) and I just sit back and enjoy what is to come next. Because sometimes it takes on a life of its own and I think it is hilarious. 

[looptab]

6 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Yes, it is. Everything is her fault. Laurel is dead because of her. Malcolm is a bad villain because of her.  Oliver cannot do anything heroic without help because of her. But the most important thing it is her fault that Arrow isn't the way they want it to be. Because they want the comic book in tv form and she ruined that for them. BAD Felicity!

Fucking Felicity!