KenyaJ December 8, 2015 Share December 8, 2015 Felicity gets a shout-out in Alan Sepinwall's review of last night's "Supergirl." Also, I think there are times when the other DC shows have leaned a bit too much on very specific versions of the characters from the comics, when one of the advantages of having 70-odd years of stories (depending on the character) to draw from is that you can keep people guessing about what's going to happen next. Felicity on "Arrow" has almost nothing in common from that character's original comics incarnation, and that show's been better for her prominence than if the series had tried to force an Oliver/Laurel relationship because Black Canary has a long written history of dating Green Arrow. Just because the characters, particularly the supporting ones, share names with people from the comics doesn't mean they have to be exactly the same. 17 Link to comment
Starfish35 December 8, 2015 Share December 8, 2015 Lol. I love that Sepinwall is so clearly anti-Lauriver. 8 Link to comment
wonderwall December 8, 2015 Share December 8, 2015 (edited) Lol. I love that Sepinwall is so clearly anti-Lauriver. Sepinwall is clearly anti-laurel in general and very pro OTA. :p It makes me laugh because I remember MG tweeted him last season and asked him where his Arrow reviews went because Sepinwall stopped reviewing them for a while when the story went to hell (clearly MG reads them)... So it's nice to know that the EPs read and value his criticisms. Edited December 8, 2015 by wonderwall 16 Link to comment
dtissagirl December 8, 2015 Share December 8, 2015 And he's a bonafide comic book fanboy too, which feels me with VALIDATION GLEE. 18 Link to comment
tv echo December 8, 2015 Share December 8, 2015 (edited) Keep an eye out for the publication of Talk Nerdy With Us' interview with ER... Tracy Diane Miller @tdmiller820917Just had an AMAZING interview with the very talented @elysiarotaru for @TalkNerdyWithUs . REALLY looking forward to sharing it with you all.10:32 AM - 8 Dec 2015 https://twitter.com/tdmiller820917/status/674295577132310528 Edited December 8, 2015 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo December 8, 2015 Share December 8, 2015 Talk Nerdy With Us posted some fan tumblr responses on the Flash/Arrow crossover eps... Fandom Speaks: Flash x Arrow Crossover Versionby Erica Schaaf December 4, 2015, 3:32 pmhttp://talknerdywithus.com/2015/12/04/fandom-speaks-flash-x-arrow-crossover-version/ 1 Link to comment
Chaser December 8, 2015 Share December 8, 2015 You know I would say that the FB actress is tainted for me but the truth is I'm probably not going to be able to remember I even saw her on Arrow. I can't think of one scene with her. 8 Link to comment
tv echo December 8, 2015 Share December 8, 2015 (edited) See An Adorable, Much Younger Stephen Amell Shooting An ArrowBY LAURA HURLEY 2 HOURS AGOhttp://www.cinemablend.com/television/See-An-Adorable-Much-Younger-Stephen-Amell-Shooting-An-Arrow-104127.html Edited December 8, 2015 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
tv echo December 9, 2015 Share December 9, 2015 Ouch... 'Arrow' Has Another Lapse In Storytelling CourageBy Robert Dougherty Dec 09, 2015 01:30 PMhttp://www.themovienetwork.com/article/arrow-has-another-lapse-storytelling-courage On paper, throwing such a wrench into what had been a blissful season, and risking the wrath of a passionate fan base, is supposed to be gutsy. These sort of twists ideally prove that this show won't just rest on its laurels, won't make its characters predictable, won't smooth over their bumpy ride towards being heroes, and will provoke fans one way or another even into its fourth season. These are the sort of elements designed to make a show daring. But for the second straight season, it is making Arrow profoundly cowardly instead.* * *Maybe things have changed for Oliver himself, but they have certainly not changed for the writers and Marc Guggenheim, it would seem. Once again, they are using plot twists they seem to believe are fresh, complex and unpredictable, and once again they are really the coward’s way out, as they let Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards clean up the mess because they can.* * *Now the consequences stand to cast a pall on the next several episodes, and will almost certainly tarnish events like Oliver's possible proposal, Felicity's near death, the likely return of Felicity's father and more.* * *The only semi-plausible defense for all this came from Tumblr user jbuffyangel. She reasoned if the writers actually kept Olicity as a well written couple who overcame these obstacles together from the start, it would make no sense that they weren't married by the end of Season Four. Instead, that's something she figures they are saving for the 100th episode in early Season Five to get a better syndication deal -- and they had to manufacture a wedding delay until then, no matter how stupid, regressive and out of character.... 8 Link to comment
Chaser December 9, 2015 Share December 9, 2015 Regarding Poppy's interview. The quote about fan's response was a little interesting. She honestly thought fans would be thrilled? 1 Link to comment
bijoux December 9, 2015 Share December 9, 2015 Maybe she just didn't know about the fandom or the show? I mean, it's a job for her. It's a pretty unoffensive interview from my point of view. I fault her for some shoddy acting choices but not for this. Even if I'm 99% certain that she hasn't been clued into her character to really do anything with it. 1 Link to comment
Chaser December 9, 2015 Share December 9, 2015 I didn't find it an offensive interview at all. I just found the quote to be a little naïve. She probably had no idea about the Arrow fandom. I was just surprised that she seemed to assume that everyone would be really excited. 1 Link to comment
wonderwall December 9, 2015 Share December 9, 2015 I didn't find it an offensive interview at all. I just found the quote to be a little naïve. She probably had no idea about the Arrow fandom. I was just surprised that she seemed to assume that everyone would be really excited. I find that it's rare for everyone to be excited over a new love interest introduced in the middle of the show's run on any show ever. But that's just what I've experienced. Link to comment
Chaser December 9, 2015 Share December 9, 2015 I think it was Rob Thomas who warned the actor who played Piz that he would not get a friendly welcome from the fans. It's entirely possible the actress wasn't told she was going to be a love interest. 2 Link to comment
kismet December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) People generally liked the other fb ladies - Shado, Sara & Tatsu, so maybe she thought it would be similar. But the way they sold her arc as a comparison/parallel to FS certainly perched her high on a pedestal & just primed the audience to attack her. I can blame her for some of her acting choices. But it really is the writing that is failing the fb even more than usual this season. Edited December 10, 2015 by kismet 2 Link to comment
Starfish35 December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure she's had anything to work with. I could not honestly tell you whether I thought she was a good actress or not. I accidentally posted this in the Spoilers Only thread this afternoon (oops-thought I was in a different thread), but the character has been such a non-entity to me. Most of the time if she's not actually on screen I completely forget she exists. I know that's terrible but it's true. It's not helped by my finding the flashbacks so deadly boring that I normally forget them as soon as they're over. :( Edited December 10, 2015 by Starfish35 5 Link to comment
dtissagirl December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 Yup. Poppy's the human version of sleeping pills. She shows up, I snooze. 6 Link to comment
BkWurm1 December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 Yup. Poppy's the human version of sleeping pills. She shows up, I snooze. The white noise of Television. I know she's doing and saying stuff but all I register is wha wa wha wa wha. 7 Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) EW recaps of 409... Arrow recap: 'Dark Waters'BY JONATHON DORNBUSH December 9 2015 — 11:14 PM ESThttp://www.ew.com/recap/arrow-season-4-episode-9 ... Luckily, he’s got help from Malcolm Merlyn. (ASIDE: It’s tough not to notice, but the episode plays Malcolm’s appearance as a bit of a surprise or at least unwanted, which doesn’t make sense after he spent the crossover constantly lurking in the Arrow lair’s shadows. While Quentin seems most shocked, which tracks after he did not have a role in the crossover, Malcolm’s appearances there and at Thea’s apartment feel like they insinuate he wasn’t just in town helping the crew take out an immortal villain. The episode survives as it’s only a minor nuisance, but still a noticeable one. END ASIDE)* * *... Oliver saves Malcolm from being magically choked to death (Damien is essentially a lightsaber-less Sith all episode), and the two plant a bomb right next to a pinned-down Darhk.* * **She’s totally alive, right? You can read some evidence from EW’s Natalie Abrams about why she suspects Felicity is not the one in the grave from the season premiere. But with the next episode preview, this feels like another The Walking Dead Glenn situation in the making. The look at the midseason premiere splices the grave footage with Felicity in the hospital, but it feels grafted on as a fake-out, not a true revolution of her fate. It’s disappointing if true, but hopefully the wait until Jan. 20 is not filled with Arrow producers teasing Felicity’s fate with vague statements every other week. Arrow: Is THAT who's in the grave?BY NATALIE ABRAMS December 9 2015 — 9:03 PM ESThttp://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/09/arrow-felicity-shot-finale-grave?wewe While the promo for the show’s return seems to indicate she is, here’s why we think she’s not: * As revealed in the premiere, the funeral takes place six months after the events of the season opener. It seems a little too soon for six months to have gone by, so maybe Felicity will come back from this.* As David Ramsey previously told EW, “I just can’t see them messing with that relationship.” Oliver finally just proposed and he’s gotten everything he’s ever wanted, which seems like an apt time to take it all away. But with Arrow taking a lighter tone this season, killing off the show’s comedic relief wouldn’t seem like the best move.* Also, as Ramsey pointed out, “I don’t even know if [Oliver] would be able to talk if it was Felicity. He would just be so broken.” The actor is referring to the closing scene of the premiere, in which Oliver swears to make “him” pay while standing over the grave, likely referring to Damien Darhk. Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 Yahoo review of 409... 'Arrow' Recap: We Haven't Even Made It to 'Til Death Do Us Part' YetRobert Chan December 10, 2015https://www.yahoo.com/tv/arrow-recap-felicity-smoak-dead-mid-season-finale-054038794.html Well, it’ll be more than a month before Arrow comes back and we find out if Felicity lives or dies. In truth, Emily Bett Rickards would have to have absolutely the worst lawyer if her contract doesn’t guarantee her employment for the length of the show.* * *Last year, the city was menaced by the League of Assassins, an appropriately scary group. This season, it’s… a league of bankers? The H.I.V.E. bigwigs are in town, and they are a pocket protector away from being confused for accountants at your local Best Buy corporate office.* * ** They should bring back the little girl who played “Mini-Felicity,” right? To start setting up for the Arrow Babies spinoff? 1 Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) ScreenCrush's positive review of 409... ‘Arrow’ Review: ‘Dark Waters’ a Felicitous End to 2015, Despite Deathly Fake-OutKevin Fitzpatrick | 10 hours agohttp://screencrush.com/arrow-dark-waters-review/ Let’s go ahead and get this one out of the way: nope! It isn’t Arrow’s fault that so many other series have attempted to play this card of late, but there isn’t a chance in hell “Dark Waters” actually killed off Felicity. Joss Whedon these writers are not, to kill the series’ best character at a moment of peak happiness, though I’ll grant that if ever the series does attempt to kill Felicity for real, they’d better afford Emily Bett Rickards as many wonderful moments and colors as tonight brought.* * *Perhaps also worth getting out of the way, how relieved does Season 4 feel to be out from under all the Legends of Tomorrow setup? ... ... In and of itself, the gas chamber scenes threatened to turn much darker than The CW can afford*, and “the cavalry”s arrival kept enough surprise for Oliver to finally keep an advantage over Damien Darhk. *One might tug a collar at Darhk invoking Nazi sympathy in his plan to use gas chambers especially given producer Marc Guggenheim had to explicitly clarify that the “Baron Reiter” character of Oliver’s flashbacks had nothing to do with his Nazi-associated counterpart in comics.* * *The strong sense of action notwithstanding (Green Merlyn vs. Damien Darhk for the win!), the emotions felt especially on point tonight as well. One could easily label “Dark Waters” as one of Emily Bett Rickards and Felicity’s best hours to date, playing every color between her usual awkward self, to knocking out Ghosts with a lead pipe, defiantly reminding Oliver who decides when she needs protection, and still allowing excitement to wash over her discovery of Oliver’s engagement ring. The actual public proposal itself didn’t quite raise the bar for TV romance, but the buildup woven throughout the hour more than earned the moment.* * *It really can’t be overstated how great it felt to have an Arrow episode that actually functioned as an Arrow episode again, and “Dark Waters” mostly knocked it out of the park all the same....* * *Something always bugs me a bit over the Canary Cry. Maybe Katie Cassidy’s exaggerated posture, maybe a bit more visual flair needed overall. Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo 5 Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) TV.com reviewer is not buying that Felicity is the one in the grave... Arrow "Dark Waters" Review: Darhkness ReignsBy Noel Kirkpatrick 9 hours agohttp://www.tv.com/shows/arrow/community/post/arrow-season-4-episode-9-dark-waters-review-144944882864/ I'm probably just very jaded, but this is twice in a row that Arrow had caused me to have a little laugh at the end of its midseason finale. In Season 3's fall finale, Ra's ran a sword through Oliver and kicked him off a mountain, and while I cracked wise about the show rebranding itself as A.T.O.M. at the time, I don't think that any of us really believed the show would kill off Oliver. And while The CW's promo department really wanted me to think that Felicity was dead and in that grave, I'm in the same situation, just with bullets instead of swords and a mountain. I mean, there's a chance I'll be eating crow come January 20 when Arrow returns for Episode 10, and we discover that the show has legitimately killed off Felicity—TO MAKE ROOM FOR SAMANTHA, OBVIOUSLY—but I have a hard time taking this cliffhanger too seriously. Mostly, I just feel bad for the Olicity 'shippers. They got the breakup undone last week thanks to time travel only to have Oliver and Felicity get engaged and then her get shot in the limo? It's too cruel. On the other hand, Collider reviewer does appear to be (kinda) hopping on the 'Felicity is the one in the grave' train... 'Arrow’ Midseason Finale Recap: “Dark Waters” – One Foot in the GraveBY DAVE TRUMBORE 10 HOURS AGOhttp://collider.com/arrow-recap-dark-waters/ So with tonight’s midseason finale, we’ve finally got a very strong frontrunner for who’s in the grave – and is the current leader of our poll – but like any show on television these days, that death has not been completely confirmed. Both reviewers gave 409 good reviews overall. Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 A.V. Club's positive review of 409... Arrow closes out the year by dropping the damn hammerBy Alasdair Wilkins Dec 9, 2015 9:35 PMhttp://www.avclub.com/tvclub/arrow-closes-out-year-dropping-damn-hammer-229584 ... The inclusion of that flash-forward scene in the “Previously on” segment immediately clues the viewer in to be on the lookout for any of those little signs that a character is about to die, and “Dark Waters” has some definite fun with which character might be about to check out...* * *... This season of Arrow has done a fine job committing to the idea that Oliver is legitimately trying to change his ways, and part of that is changing the inflection of his character beats from being about him making mistakes to him figuring things out. Maybe he didn’t screw up by deciding to put off asking Felicity to marry him, but he needed time to learn that he can’t take tomorrow for granted, and that he should never be afraid to have his partner by his side...* * *In the meantime—look, this show isn’t perfect. I don’t imagine it ever will be. But after all the wonkiness and weirdness of last year, the one thing this show ferociously, indisputably is … is Arrow. Arrow is truly Arrow again, and it’s a joy to behold. At least when the show isn’t breaking hearts, as it’s so often wont to do.* * *So, Genesis, huh? The last time someone tried that we had Khan unleashing his wrath, a bunch of Klingons killing Kirk’s son, and Spock dying and undying. Let’s just see where Damien is going with this, I guess? 1 Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) BuddyTV review of 409... 'Arrow' Winter Finale Recap: Oliver's Christmas Celebration Ends in TragedyDerek Stauffer Wednesday, December 09, 2015 http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/arrow-recap-damien-goes-after-58295.aspx Damien breaks into the party and decides the best form of revenge isn't to hurt Oliver. No, he is going to hurt Oliver's friends and family. Damien knocks out Oliver with his magic. Then his minions capture Dig, Felicity and Thea. Even Damien won't give Laurel the respect she deserves as one of the important people in Oliver's life.* * *... Oliver and Taiana go to a shipwreck and Oliver finds a map inside. When Oliver makes it back to shore, Conklin is waiting and captures him. God, if there was only four seasons of evidence that suggests Oliver survives this encounter!* * *Okay, now back to the thing that everyone cares about Team Green Arrow (sans Laurel) maybe dying. Laurel and Malcolm arrive to save Felicity, Dig and Thea. (Did you really think they were all going to die?) Everyone then escapes the building. Malcolm and Oliver work together to incapacitate Damien and blow up the building. Though Damien is probably just as "dead" as Felicity was a few moments ago.* * *Oliver holds a very modest (and tacky) Christmas tree lighting ceremony showing the people of Star City that they aren't afraid of Damien. Oliver turns to Felicity and gets down one knee and proposes. She says "yes." Then Arrow goes and ruins all the happiness. Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) Vulture's mixed review of 409 (rated it 3 out of 5 stars)... Arrow Recap: Save the BaeBy Jenny Raftery December 10, 2015 8:38 a.m.http://www.vulture.com/2015/12/arrow-recap-season-4-episode-9.html ... But in “Dark Waters,” Arrow overcorrects that criticism by jamming what could essentially be two episodes worth of plot into one. On the surface, there are a lot of exciting elements (A kidnapping! An Olicity proposal! Malcolm in cosplay!), but those bright moments only temporarily distract from an otherwise rushed and clumsy episode.* * *... It’s a fun, playful scene, as Quentin makes the connection that Felicity is Mama Smoak’s daughter. He implies that Felicity should keep his new romance hush-hush, as “Laurel doesn’t know.” (Secret romances, secret identities, secret magical pits … does anyone on this show tell Laurel anything? Man, I would be bummed to find out that I’m the Laurel in someone’s life.)...* * *But Arrow’s violent ways aren’t working on the ghosts, so a frustrated Arrow returns to the lair. Laurel’s there, with her crossed arms and a weird attitude. “Oliver, we’ll find them,” she says. On paper, this sounds like a supportive statement, but Katie Cassidy reads the line with a dismissive, annoyed tone, making it seem like Oliver’s overreacting. But if there were ever a time to overact, it’s when the big bad has captured the three people you care most about. This may seem like a nitpick, but these kinds of small missteps can easily pull viewers out of the story. Instead of focusing on Oliver’s quest, I’m wondering why Laurel doesn’t care about her closest friends being kidnapped.* * *... Oliver breaks away from the guards holding him and runs and bangs on the soundproof glass. There’s a lovely and heartbreaking moment between Oliver and Felicity as they silently mouth “I love you” to each other through the glass. (Amell and Emily Bett Rickards’s outstanding performances in this entire episode really saved “Dark Waters” for me.)...* * *The proposal scene really is the nail in the Laurel/Oliver coffin, right? I don’t see how they’d ever come back after that. (AND DON’T SAY “MAYBE IF FELICITY DIES,” BECAUSE YOU ARE MEAN AND WRONG.)* * *“You are not the boss of me, ” Felicity explains to Oliver, who wants to “protect” her. If there’s anyone who is curious about why Felicity is so beloved, it’s because of scenes like this. Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo 10 Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) Laura Hurley's CinemaBlend review of 409... Arrow's Midseason Finale Just Ended On A Bloody CliffhangerBY LAURA HURLEY 11 HOURS AGOhttp://www.cinemablend.com/television/Arrow-Midseason-Finale-Just-Ended-Bloody-Cliffhanger-104547.html Felicity has always been many fans’ top candidate for the big death of Season 4. The show has aired nine episodes and one crossover showing just how crazy in love Oliver is with all things Felicity; given Arrow’s penchant for torturing Oliver, Felicity dying after becoming that which he cares about most would be par for the course. It’s been hard not to wonder whether Felicity Smoak is going to be the next Gwen Stacy or Rachel Dawes, doomed to die for the development of the superhero in her life. At the same time, there’s no denying that Oliver has already lost his fair share of Gwen Stacys and Rachel Dawes. He’s already on the upswing of his journey from poorly-coiffed toolbag Ollie to ruthless murderer to hero who fights in the light. He doesn’t need another woman to die for his development. If anything, Felicity dying would set back his development. Hopefully, Arrow will let Felicity live, if only at the very least to prevent another Oliver Queen developmental backslide. Hurley's Examiner review should be up later today and, according to her tweets, she thought 409 was fantastic and she'll be praising Oliver & Felicity. Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) Den of Geek's critical review of 409 (rated it 2.5 stars out of 5)... Arrow: Dark Waters reviewMike Cecchini 12/9/2015 at 9:48PMhttp://www.denofgeek.us/tv/arrow/251233/arrow-dark-waters-review I hate to say it, but I have to...the problem starts with Damien Darhk. The lack of clear motivation has really dulled the mysteries surrounding him. The strokes are too broad for his plan to mean anything at all, and he's by far the least-defined big bad we've had. The reticence to pull back and show us more of what's going on is making me wonder if there's really anything behind the curtain at all. The fact that they were telegraphing Felicity's "death" (and yes, this is going to remain in quotes until Emily Bett Rickards sends a fond farewell on social media and signs on as a regular on another show) made the final moment anti-climactic, choral version of "Little Drummer Boy" and all. Every happy moment between Oliver and Felicity seemed to be written specifically as an "oh god, don't kill her while he's about to propose" beat. I don't think it had the desired effect. It hurts me to write stuff like that, because I was once dead set against the two of them getting together in the first place, and smart writing (and terrific performances from Ms. Rickards and Mr. Amell) won me over in the end. But "killing" Felicity just feels like a cheap gimmick. When Oliver "died" at last year's midseason finale, it wasn't just a "how will they get out of this one?" moment, it was a genuine surprise. Felicity's "demise" this week just felt like a cheap appeal to "the feels," and not a real way to move the story forward.* * *Oh, and if I'm wrong about this and Felicity really is taking the ol' dirt nap for good? Well...I'll be as heartbroken as any of you. But we all know that ain't happening. Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo Link to comment
dtissagirl December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 Arrow Joins the Long List of Shows That Are "Killing" Characters: Who Is It This Time? http://www.eonline.com/news/722823/arrow-joins-the-long-list-of-shows-that-are-killing-characters-who-is-it-this-time Felicity is definitely not the one in that grave, since the grave scene is about three months further in the future and also it is just not Felicity. If this show knows what's good for it, it won't kill Felicity. It also just won't kill Felicity even if it doesn't know what's good for it, because killing Felicity is just not a thing you do. Accurate. 19 Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) Laura Hurley's very positive Examiner review of 409 (don't know if she'll be doing this review in parts like last week)... 'Arrow' S04E09: Romance done right in 'Dark Waters'Laura Hurley December 10, 2015 7:05 AM MSThttp://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s04e09-romance-done-right-dark-waters Arrow is not a show about romance. It is not a show that revolves around “will-they-won’t-they” or “did-they-didn’t-they” or “when will they” tension. It is not a show about first kisses or those three little words or love scenes. It’s just not a show about romance. Arrow is also not a show about action sequences or speechifying from good guys or quips from bad guys. Arrow began as and continues to be at its best when it is a show about humanity. The strengths and weaknesses of humanity at its best and worst were beneath every single plot twist and punch in "Dark Waters." * * *The romance was handled so well in “Dark Waters.” Frankly, the love story between Oliver and Felicity felt as though it progressed directly from the Flash half of the Flarrow crossover without any of the manufactured baby mama melodrama of the Arrow half....* * *As well as the romance was handled by the writers, the love story in “Dark Waters” would have flopped without Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards. Amell portrayed an Oliver who never wavered in wanted to marry Felicity but was unsure of whether or not they could survive the journey. Rickards’ Felicity never looked as young as she did in “Dark Waters” as she tried to understand Oliver’s fears, and Felicity’s progression from nervous excitement at finding the ring to just a deep desire to marry this man was some of Rickards’ best work. The chemistry between them that always crackled has changed into something deeper now that Oliver and Felicity have become a couple, and that the Loft o’ Love has been these characters’ home rather than just a location filled with flat surfaces for CW sex scenes has made them into a wonderfully adult and healthy relationship. Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo 11 Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 Bustle reviewer is freaking out over Felicity's possible death... Is Felicity Dead On 'Arrow'? Her Gunshot Wound Leaves Us Worried For Her FutureKELLY SCHREMPH 12 hours agohttp://www.bustle.com/articles/128935-is-felicity-dead-on-arrow-her-gunshot-wound-leaves-us-worried-for-her-future Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) JustAboutWrite's review of 409 (small print, but worth reading)... Arrow 4x09 "Dark Waters" (And All of the Ghouls Come Out to Play)6:49 PMhttp://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2015/12/arrow-4x09-dark-waters-and-all-of.html I would be remiss if I didn't spend some of this review talking about Oliver and Felicity's romantic relationship. There are a lot of important elements about the two's romance that are explored throughout the episode, but the one I keep returning to and find to be most integral is this idea of partnership, especially in relation to marriage. In the scene right before Felicity is ushered to a gas chamber (words I really don't want to type and pray I never have to again), she tells Oliver that he's not the boss of her — that they make decisions together and face all of the dark times, all of the problems, and all of the harrowing events as a team. That's what it looks like to have a healthy and functional relationship. You don't run from the difficulties, but you rush toward them — together. Oliver and Felicity have always had this sort of trust between them, even before they began dating. He believes in her, and she in him. And one of the benefits of having that trust is that Felicity knows Oliver inside out. She knows where his weaknesses are and she is the life preserver — the thing that holds onto his humanity and his hope when he cannot — constantly reminding him of who he is and where he is headed. Oliver, you see, has this wretched tendency to look backwards. He constantly thinks about his past and the dark things he did, and this affects him deeply in the present-day. Less so now, of course, four seasons into his heroic arc, but it does nevertheless. When Oliver proposes, he says as much, referring to Felicity as "the one who lights my way." Arrow isn't known for being subtle (at all), and this allusion to light in the midst of darkness is extremely significant. Felicity is the one who points Oliver home, like a lighthouse guiding a ship. She knows where he has been — perhaps not as intimately because she was not on Lian-Yu for years — but the most important thing is that she knows where he is and where he is going. She points, at every turn, toward home for him. That's what's so important about their conversation in the cell and why I find it infinitely more complex and emotionally rewarding than the proposal itself. Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 And here's jbuffyangel's review of 409 (usual lengthy analysis with lots of gifs)... THE GUIDING LIGHT: DARK WATERS 4X09 REVIEWjbuffyangel DECEMBER 10, 2015 @ 06:51http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/134916988488/the-guiding-light-dark-waters-4x09-review She suggests that while Felicity won't die, she might experience an "emotional death" and lose her way - and that then Oliver becomes her "guiding light" (in a reversal of their usual roles). Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 If you're interested... Arrow Season 4 Episode 9 Review: Dark WatersCarissa Pavlica at December 9, 2015http://www.tvfanatic.com/2015/12/arrow-season-4-episode-9-review-dark-waters/ Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) Forbes reviewer thinks Felicity is going to die and believes that you can't have a married superhero - he wants a vengeful and single Oliver (What. An. Ass.)... 'Arrow' Season 4, Episode 9 Review: 'Dark Waters'Erik Kain DEC 10, 2015 @ 10:47 AMhttp://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/12/10/arrow-season-4-episode-9-review-dark-waters/ Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 MTV speculates on alternatives to Felicity's death (warning: includes spoiler previously posted in Spoilers thread)... Did ‘Arrow’ Really Just Kill Off SPOILER?by kayti burt 1h agohttp://www.mtv.com/news/2685171/arrow-felicity-dead-or-nah/ Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 This is an interesting take on 409 (lessons learned from watching the ep)... Arrow's holiday episode just schooled humans on 14 surprising life lessons11 hours ago by Michelle Carlberthttp://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1105577/arrow-season-4-episode-9 Link to comment
tv echo December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 (edited) This reviewer says "no" - plus more grave speculation (warning: includes spoiler previously posted in Spoilers thread)... Arrow: Is Really Dead?Russ Burlingame- 12/09/2015http://comicbook.com/2015/12/10/arrow-is-spoiler-really-dead-/ ... We'll also point out here that in dialogue from the episode, Felicity mentioned it had been three months since they returned to Star City...* * *A character as important as Felicity isn't going to die on the operating table a month and a half after she's shot. The fact that she's still alive in the hospital next episode is a pretty good assurance she's not dying. Hell, she was moving in that last shot......See how her head turns without Oliver turning it? Yeah, he moves her a bit, but after he stops, her head continues to roll up and toward him -- that's not a natural direction for gravity to take things. So clearly she's moving her head.* * *There's another thing, of course: In the funeral scene, we see that Oliver is alone when Barry comes to see him. There's really no reason he should be alone at a fresh plot, if Felicity was the one being buried and her mother is in town. In fact, the "family" dynamic they're trying to build up with Team Arrow really only makes Oliver standing alone at the gravesite logical if the grave belongs to his William, or his mother Samantha. Edited December 11, 2015 by tv echo Link to comment
NumberCruncher December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 If I haven't said it before, thanks tv echo for rounding up all of the reviews so I don't have to. Even better--thanks for highlighting the relevant parts so I don't have to read the entire reviews, heh. ;) 22 Link to comment
EmilyBettFan December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 Tv echo you're awesome! I love reading all the good reviews but don't have time to find them! 2 Link to comment
Morena December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 'Arrow' review: She's OK, she's OK -- right? http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-arrow-dark-waters-review-20151210-story.html 1 Link to comment
statsgirl December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 'Arrow' review: She's OK, she's OK -- right? http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-arrow-dark-waters-review-20151210-story.html I love it when male reviewers get excited: She's fine. Say it with me, people. She's fine. She's fine. She's fine. Right? The writers of "Arrow" surely wouldn't kill off Felicity Smoak, the beating heart of this series, the crown princess of Internet fans, the person who keeps us from having to worry about Laurel Lance being Oliver Queen's love interest again ... right? 6 Link to comment
tv echo December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 Sometimes I don't quote as much as I want to because I'm conscious of the prohibition against quoting entire articles, so I have to pick and choose what to quote - focusing on controversial points, or points I especially like, or other stuff like that. Sometimes there's lots of good stuff in the articles that I don't quote. :) 2 Link to comment
tv echo December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 (edited) EBR will be in the December 2015 Young Hollywood issue of Bello Magazine (remember, she was in their December 2013 Young Hollywood issue as well)... B @brattyb2Watch out for @emilybett on @BELLOmag's young hollywood issue this December. #EmilyBettRickards #FelicitySmoak2:17 AM - 11 Dec 2015 https://twitter.com/brattyb2/status/675258075742212096 Emily Bett Rickards shot for Bello Magazine this past Saturday, November 14. The actress was shooting for the magazine’s upcoming December 2015 “Young Hollywood” issue.The issue is set to be released later this month, so make sure to keep your eyes out for it. Emily is currently working on new episodes for her hit CW show, Arrow. Emily Bett Rickards Shoots for Bella Magazine’s December IssueNovember 16, 2015 - Author: admin http://www.beautifulballad.org/2015/11/16/emily-bett-rickards-shoots-for-bella-magazines-december-issue/ FYI, from 2013 (go to link for EBR interview and other pics):EMILY BETT RICKARDS FOR BELLO MAG – DECEMBER 2013 http://www.bellomag.com/emily-bett-rickards-for-bello-mag-december-2013-emilybett-benny_haddad-cw_arrow/ Edited December 11, 2015 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 Robert Dougherty's review of 409 (gave it a score of 7/10)... Arrow S4: E9 -- 'Dark Waters'By Robert Dougherty December 10, 2015 08:49AM ESThttp://www.themovienetwork.com/review/arrow-s4-e9-dark-waters ... Given that Damien was so mad at Anarky for crossing the line of targeting someone's daughter back in episode 402, it is funny how he can now square away shooting a drone at children and at a little Felicity clone. But his later phrase "Bad guy, remember?" seems to be the go to answer for such acts and flip-flops.* * *Quite frankly, having no reminders in the actual episode of Oliver's son and Oliver's forced lie is a kind of blessing. In fact, when Oliver shields the little mini-Felicity from the drone, then later reflects on how there were kids in the crossfire at all, his new fatherhood adds an extra layer to it all...* * *When Felicity is captured and Oliver later gives himself up, their subsequent heart to heart in a cell is emotional and heartfelt as only Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards can pull off together. When it looks like Felicity is going to be gassed in a chamber, as shown in the episode's trailer, this time her strained 'I love you' isn't audible behind the glass and is even more painful for it. And then when death is ultimately defied, Oliver does get to do what he wanted to do three months ago. All of which would have been absolutely beautiful and perfect if not for one big giant error a week ago. Dark Waters is partly painful, not because it furthers the pain of last week's debacle and the pain of the certain debacles to come, but because it further exposed how unbelievable pointless and stupid they all are. There is absolutely no good reason why Oliver and Felicity's progress in hashing out old issues had to have a dark cloud of a new, upcoming awful issue ahead. There isn't one plausible reason why Oliver's proposal had to be halfway tarnished at best because he is doing so while hiding a ridiculous lie -- and using the events of the previous 55 minutes to make him ready to propose doesn't hide that at all. And quite frankly, with what is about to happen in the first several episodes of 2016, there is no excuse good enough to convince myself and others that a lie/secret like Oliver's son has to be piled on top of it all.* * *Nevertheless, Oliver and Quentin often need to get it through their heads that the most important females in their lives can protect themselves, and chose to put themselves in the line of fire with or without them. While this is a valuable point to make twice over, it does get a little lazy -- and probably a little weird -- when Laurel and Felicity use pretty much the exact same lines to make that point. 2 Link to comment
tv echo December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 (edited) Arrow Season 4: 12 Questions We’re Asking After The Mid-Season FinaleJames Hunt 10 DEC 2015http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-season-4-12-questions-were-asking-after-the-mid-season-finale.php Episode 9. It’s always episode 9.* * *Season 1 unveiled Malcolm Merlyn as the Dark Archer; Season 2 brought Slade Wilson back from the dead; last year had Oliver stabbed through the chest and kicked off the top of a mountain. With episode 9 serving as the mid-season finale, the show likes to go out on a high, and Season 4 had a lot to live up to. Thankfully, it managed it wonderfully.* * *2. Is Felicity Dead? No, surely not? They wouldn’t, would they? Have they? No… After the hail of bullets rains down on Oliver and Felicity’s car, he manages to drive them to apparent safety, only to discover Felicity has been shot, and isn’t looking too great. By which I’m making a massive understatement, because she looks dead. The promo for the next episode attempts to reinforce this idea, by showing her rushed into a hospital, and then cutting to Oliver in front of the grave. We know someone is going to die, but the grave scene was six months later, while this is only around 3, so surely it’s too early to be Felicity (and that’s ignoring Jewish burial customs, and given the episode really makes a point of reminding us all that Felicity is Jewish, that’s a big oversight to make).This is the year of the fakeout death it would seem, so this is probably another one of those, right? Edited December 11, 2015 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 (edited) WeMinoredInFilm's negative review of 409 (despite the criticism, this entire review is worth reading and genuinely funny in parts - and I think her first line speaks for a lot of us)... ARROW’S “DARK WATERS” (S4,EP9): TRYING TO HAVE IT ALLPosted on December 10, 2015 by Kelly Kondahttp://weminoredinfilm.com/2015/12/10/arrows-dark-waters-s4ep9-trying-to-have-it-all/ This fucking show. ... At this point, it is a comic book soap opera in the most comic book-y ways possible. Season 4 seems to know that in ways season 3 didn’t, and the show has arguably benefited as a result. Well, there were some hawk people around last week, but let’s agree to never speak of them again. Overall, though, the clearly lighter mood and tone has allowed the characters more room to actually have fun. Even so, sometimes this show can be super, super dumb. “Dark Waters,” a ho-hum mid-season finale, is an example of that.* * *Oliver announces Damien Darhk’s identity to the rest of Star City to publicly shame and challenge him, but when he urges caution afterward (“Dude’s obviously going to retaliate”) everyone acts like Oliver’s just being his normal controlling self instead of the only rational man in the group...* * *... It’s so funny that he’d say exactly what Felicity needed to hear. Go away now, Curtis’ husband. You’ve fulfilled your narrative function. Only come back when you have even spectacularly convenient lines of dialogue again.* * *Laurel stands firmly cross-armed and looks oddly more annoyed than concerned when trying to re-assure Oliver that Felicity, Thea and Diggle will be fine even though they have absolutely zero leads on where Damien Darhk took them. Everyone continually cuts Laurel out of everything, from the fact that her dad has been Oliver’s inside man with HIVE for months or that her dad is dating Mama Smoak.* * *Darhk reveals his plan involves Nazi-like gas chambers to cull the population, and then as a display of the chamber’s effectiveness he executives a HIVE ghost wearing very concentration camp-like clothes. To top it off, he throws Felicity, the show’s only Jewish character, into the chamber along with Diggle and Thea. Laurel saves the day by using her sonic choker-enhanced Canary cry, which is never not funny.* * *... Yet it was probably no different than The Flash’s similarly silly and muddled mid-season finale. Both shows have inarguably suffered from the seemingly endless Legends of Tomorrow set-ups, leaving each of them with precious little time to properly wrap everything up after the Heroes Unite two-parter. ...* * *Both Oliver and Barry Allen are wrestling with the idea of whether or not they can truly have it all, the danger and the girl... However, it feels like both shows are hovering over that Spider-Man 2/Spider-Man 3 area of the superhero narrative where the guy attempts the noble, self-sacrifice route before the girl essentially tells him, “Buck up, Tiger. I’m not going anywhere.” That girl is then, inevitably, taken hostage and almost killed.... However, in this age of what Scream Queens called “New New Feminism” how do you tell this kind of story anymore without seeming passé? The answer, as “Dark Waters” saw it, was to have every single female character in potential peril repeatedly claim their own agency...* * *... It is refreshing to see those two communicate so openly, even if he is still lying to her about his son... ... We do finally have our answer as to whose grave that was in the flash-forward in the season premiere. No one came close to guessing it. No, it’s not Felicity. It was that poor limo driver who was just riddled with bullets. That’s who Oliver feels responsible for. That limo driver never would have been in that position if not for him. Poor, poor limo driver. We never even knew your name. Edited December 11, 2015 by tv echo 4 Link to comment
tv echo December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 (edited) Jessica Breaux's usual, thoughtfully written review... ARROW “DARK WATERS” REVIEW (SEASON 4, EPISODE 9)Jessica Breaux December 10, 2015http://www.tvequals.com/2015/12/10/arrow-dark-waters-review-season-4-episode-9/ ... My primary issue with Darhk is that I don’t understand the necessity of having Oliver (or whoever the next mayor is) get on board with his plan... ... In addition to being in love with Felicity, Oliver knows that Felicity hasn’t been trained the way that Thea and Dig have been trained. So even though he was definitely worried about them too, Felicity was his primary focus. The thing that Oliver doesn’t seem to realize, though, is that Felicity is a fighter. She’s always been a fighter, and she always rises to the occasion. No. She’s not particularly skilled in hand-to-hand combat, but she has other strengths that she’s not shy about using to her advantage. The fact that a lot of bad guys view her as a non-threat has actually worked to her advantage on several occasions. ... Laurel has pretty much lost the moral high ground when it comes to keeping secrets, but I’m just going to let that go. The important thing here was Laurel trying to make her father stop protecting her. Obviously, Laurel is not a parent. It doesn’t matter how old your children are, they will always be your children. As a parent, the willingness to do whatever you feel you must to protect your child doesn’t just go away because the kid turns 18 and thinks they’re grown. This is especially true in Captain Lance’s case because he’s already lost one child. His instinct and drive to protect his other child would quite understandably be much stronger... ... Maybe it’s true and maybe Andy has joined the Cult of Darhk... But if that’s the case, why was he trying to spare Dig’s life when Oliver and Dig attacked Darhk a little while ago? ... I do think Andy knows a whole lot more than he’s saying, and maybe his silence is a means of protecting Dig from whatever Darhk has planned. ... The CW is trying to do for television heroes what Marvel did for movie heroes, and I applaud them for it. The problem for Arrow, though, is the fact that it’s spent the majority of this season serving as a springboard for The CW’s other comic book pursuits and neglecting its own stories... We just haven’t spent enough time developing this season’s stories for this mid-season finale to be as strong as it could have been. I will admit, though, that Felicity getting shot and bleeding out in Oliver’s arms did hurt. It wasn’t unexpected, but that didn’t make it hurt any less. And I just want to go on record as saying that if Felicity is gone, I’m gonna be super mad. She’s my favorite and if they don’t figure out how to save her and/or bring her back, I may never forgive the show... Edited December 11, 2015 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 ThreeIfBySpace's rave review of 409 ("amazing episode")... Arrow 409 Review – “Dark Waters” Bring Holiday Chaos to Star CityBy: Alisha Bjorklund December 10, 2015http://www.threeifbyspace.net/2015/12/arrow-409-review-dark-waters-bring-holiday-chaos-to-star-city/ For everyone who’s a fan of Oliver and Felicity (me), this episode was a Christmas miracle (and curse). I, for one, felt like the entire episode was an out-of-control sleigh ride, galloping between tooth-rotting sweetness and gut-wrenching angst. And yet, I enjoyed that terrifying ride. Between the proposal and the gunshot, I don’t think it could have been any more dramatic. As a couple, Oliver and Felicity have always been about finding the light in the darkness (or in this season’s case, “Darhkness”), balancing the good and the bad with the power of their partnership. This episode emphasized that in a really nice way (if a little cheesy at times).* * *“Dark Waters” had an additional layer of development for Felicity and Laurel, who both emphatically told the men who love them: “I make my own choices; I get to decide if I need protection or not.” And although it was a bit on the nose, I really enjoyed the message this episode sent about letting women make their own decisions. Most women will never be in Laurel or Felicity’s positions, but it’s empowering to tell female viewers that they deserve to have autonomy; they deserve to be in control of what they get involved in, for better or worse.* * *I give this episode 10 out of 10. It was an action-packed, dramatic mid-season finale and a great way finish Arrow’s 2015.This show has always thrived on the repercussions of a character’s (usually bad) choices, and this one came down to Oliver making the choice to out Darhk, and then having to deal with the fall out. That’s classic Arrow and this episode made it work. The characters were all presented well and true to their selves, and they were given a chance to shine and support each other. Plus, the episode was packed with a lot of entertaining scenes, both angsty and heartwarming. And that cliffhanger set to charming Christmas music had me at the edge of my seat. 3 Link to comment
tv echo December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 This reviewer has been pretty negative about Arrow since S3, but surprisingly he liked 409 - although he still points out ridiculous aspects of the episode... Arrow, Ep. 2.09, “Dark Waters”Randy Dankievitch December 10, 2015http://www.popoptiq.com/arrow-season-2-episode-9-dark-waters/ Let’s just get this out of the way: no way Felicity Smoak is dead, right? As much as Arrow wants to leave us on a cliffhanger, the final moments of “Dark Waters” seems orchestrated, right down to the moment where the camera awkwardly cuts away from Felicity’s bloody face.... The first forty minutes of “Dark Waters” are pretty terrific, if not because it features a particularly thrilling or unique story line: it’s pure Olicity material, the other characters of the show floating the background to keep the H.I.V.E/Darhk conversation going... reaking apart each scene, this week’s Arrow was just as nonsensical as the rest this year (why the hell wouldn’t Darhk just murder Oliver on the spot, on live television? What does he give a shit?). However, it felt like Arrow again: unencumbered by the stories of other CW shows, both those on-air and yet-to-debut, “Dark Waters” is the first time Arrow‘s felt like itself in a number of episodes. And it gives the episode cohesion this season has desperately lacked: “Dark Waters” is nothing but a very focused episode of Arrow, even if its focus is mostly on silly engagement debates and wonderful, if limiting Darhk posturing: and that focus gives it a sense of propulsion this season’s desperately lacked. Do I buy certain elements of this episode, like Darhk not recognizing Merlyn, or the fact Oliver would let anyone but Diggle drive him and Felicity around after exposing Darhk to the public? Absolutely not (add to that list – why would he propose to Felicity in public like that, knowing what open targets it would make them?); but the sheer force of this episode’s plot is enough to disguise some of the logical flaws that have plagued Arrow through most of its run. When Arrow moves with purpose, it can do powerful things: that thread of hope that runs through this episode, centered on the much-maligned Olicity relationship, is something Arrow really needs to hold onto, even as it indulges itself with its darker side in upcoming episodes (I mean, the next episode is called “Blood Debts”, after all). * * * ... “Dark Waters” feels like Arrow getting back to being Arrow, and that’s always a good thing (and hey look – the Canary Cry CAN actually be useful sometimes! Whaddaya know?). And now that Arrow is heading into the heart of its season order, the larger components of the season’s story (Diggle’s brother, “The Grave”, H.I.V.E.) can begin to come into focus – maybe it’s my peppermint-colored holiday goggles, but Arrow‘s holiday episode offers a glimmer of hope for the future, the possibility of a greater tomorrow right at the show’s fingertips as it heads into winter break. Link to comment
tv echo December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 From Pajiba (for the record, I HATE their paralysis theory)... Definitive Theory on Where 'Arrow' Will Go Following Midseason CliffhangerBy Craig Wack | December 10, 2015http://www.pajiba.com/tv_reviews/definitive-theory-on-where-arrow-will-go-following-midseason-cliffhanger.php Ollie’s track record with women demands something terrible happen to Felicity. I’ve detailed this before but it bears repeating: Oillie’s mom was gutted like a trout on the side of the highway; sister Thea has battled addiction, been hypnotized into being an assassin, been returned from almost death and now suffers from chronic bloodlust; Huntress went on a kill spree and is now in prison; the chick he knocked up was forced to be a single mom resisting the urge to cash a million dollar check for 10 years; Laurel Lance has also had addiction issues, identity problems and is the worst character on TV and you could write a book on the horrors that have been visited on Sara Lance since shagging Oliver. On the weight of that evidence alone, Felicity is as good as gone. That’s right Lee Corso, noted ESPN football analyst and mascot fetishist, not so fast. Olicity shippers can take heart. This boat may be taking on water but it ain’t going down just yet. That grave that that Oliver is weeping all over is empty. If it’s not empty, then Felicity certainly isn’t in it. After spending the evening at my Dustin Rowles signature brand yarnwall piecing together the evidence, Felicity’s path is clear. She’s going to come out the other side of this as Oracle.* * *Felicity’s death will be faked to throw Damien Dahrk off Oliver’s trail, and she will be paralyzed as a result of her wounds. After Cisco comes to down to deliver Harrison Wells’ sweet ass super-wheelchair, Felicity will get the code name she’s desired since she joined Team Arrow because they can’t be calling her “Felicity” on the radio any more when she’s supposed to be dead. Link to comment
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