S04.E08: The Mountain And The Viper 2014.06.01

[Meredith Quill]

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Episode Synopsis:

Unexpected visitors arrive in Mole's Town. Littlefinger's motives are questioned. Ramsay tries to prove himself to his father. Tyrion's fate is decided.

[Snowblack]

THIS is why I love this show so much!  I can't stop laughing at how wrong I was.  What was I thinking?  I love, love, love it!  What's even funnier is that the first think I thought was "well, of course someone will rescue Tyrion and spirit him away before he's executed."  Which is exactly what I thought about Ned all the way back in Season 1.  I LOVE THIS SHOW!

[90PercentGravity]

Goodbye Oberyn, I'll miss your abs :(.

[Glory]

Is he really dead? I couldn't watch the end because of the gore factor, but people can live without eyeballs, right? RIGHT?

Oberon, I loved you!

I hope he took the mountain out with him. If it's a draw, then surely Tyrion won't have to be beheaded! Right? RIGHT?

This episode was too much for me. Between the fight, Arya's mad laughter upon hearing her aunt was dead, and Sansa's defense of Littlefinger, I can't take anymore. Seriously, show!

[stillshimpy]

Well, that's just fucking great.  Oberyn's head, squished like a grape.  The Mountain rises like a horror movie villain from the lake?  What. the.fuck.ever. Show

 

Also, I'm about ready to punch A Show in the throat, because What Exactly Was Sansa's Fake Name?!? That was not fun, Show.  

 

Jesus.  Okay so trying to take stock of why the hell I should continue to watch here, because there's actually not a lot of genius to be found in "Instead of the good guys always prevailing, instead the good guys always suffer horribly and fail!"  That's not genius.  That's just reversal.  

 

And here's what I've got: Hooray, Ygritte isn't a complete ass.  

 

Well, we're fucking saved.  Elaria, please Kill.Them.All.  Starting with all the Lannisters.  Starting with Tyrion, because Fuck Him. 

Edited June 2, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Pontoon]

Damn.

 

I don't even know where to start.

 

How about that beetle monologue?

 

Also, I couldn't help but smile a little (involuntarily) when Ramsey got his promotion to official Bolton. I just love the actor who plays Roose so much. I know they're both completely evil, but I'm glad the two of them are still kicking around in the North.

[90PercentGravity]

I'm suspicious of the half-bald, grey-haired dude from the Vale who looks like all the other half-bald grey-haired dudes on this show.

[izabella]

Oh, Oberyn!  You were fun to watch, so of course, they had to kill you and in the most gruesome way.   Ramsey, on the other hand, lives to flay another day.

 

Oberyn being that stupid doesn't ring true, just like the convoluted poison necklace plot didn't ring true.  I'm disappointed again by the writing. 

Edited June 2, 2014 by izabella

[janjan]

A show killed my Oberyn. <Wah!> I'll never forgive that. Boo! Hiss! [Not to mention the potential plot lines that Tyrion's conviction forestalls.]

 

And Sansa went over to the dark side. How about that sexy-lady getup in her last scene, sort of like Scarlett O'Hara braving the meeting with the outraged ladies of Atlanta.

 

So Jorah is off to KL. Will he make it, or will he reprise Alliser Thorne's disappearing act? At least they gave him a horse. Nice horse, too. I hope he can swim.

 

An Emmy for Alfie Allen. I insist.

 

And Hound isn't long for this world -- what he calls a "scratch" is festering. Like Drogo's. Uh oh.

 

What's so funny, Arya? Is she laughing at the "universal joke" -- the Gods don't care -- or did her mind crack under that last straw of hearing that her aunt, presumably her savior, is dead?

 

The longest sustained speech was from Tyrion on the fate of the poor beetles, one of whom (one of which?) he pointedly did not kill. Again with the universal joke, or, as R. Crumb put it:

              Flakey Foont: What's it all mean, Mr. Natural?

              Mr. Natural: Doo wah ditty. It don't mean shit.

Mr. GRRM, you are one nihilistic mutha.

 

And you killed my Oberyn. Boo hiss.

Edited June 2, 2014 by janjan

[abelard]

He lost.  He LOST.  HE LOST!!!!!!!  How could he lose?!?!?!  Oh, Oberyn.  Goodbye, you beautiful man.

 

Poor Elaria.  "Don't leave me alone in this world."  *sob*  Just one more thing to sob over in this show

 

What's so funny, Arya? Is she laughing at the "universal joke" -- the Gods always stick it to you -- or did her mind crack under that last straw of hearing that her aunt, presumably her savior, is dead?

 

I think it's the first, related to the second.  She was laughing at the universal joke that the Gods, old and new, always stick it to you, and her last chance of being saved, her aunt, is dead before she even gets there.

 

I thought Sansa at the end was definitely dressing up like Cat.  Probably using one of Lysa's gowns, one that she thought was most like what Cat would wear, and she did her hair like her mom's, too.  She's playing the long game with LF, I just pray that she knows what she's doing.  But what does praying matter on this show?  Clearly the only god that listens ever is the God of Death. 

 

Omg I am still so pissed that he lost.  He LOST.  HE LOST!!!!!!!!!

 

What becomes of Tyrion now????

[catrox14]

Wait, so Tyrion is basically a dead man now?  Welp, if they actually kill him off I literally have no reason to watch anymore.

[gingerella]

Dear Show,

Fuck.This.Shit.

You suck.

A Pissed Off Viewer

[Snowblack]

I'm still delighted at the twist.  I never saw it coming.  What a terrible death.  This show has its own rules that characters need to play by.  I think one of them is not to become overly consumed by the need for revenge.  And it makes me wonder whether Arya will back away from her "list" before she is destroyed by it too.

 

I wonder whether there will be any repercussions for the Lannisters for Oberyn's death.  Oberyn was mature and circumspect about not holding the wrong people accountable for the misdeeds of others.  But I don't want to generalize to all Martells based on him.  After all, he is the Tyrion equivalent of that family, and we would be fools to judge the Lannisters based on Tyrion.  The reality is that the Dornish have Myrcella, and they are obviously formidable warriors.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out next season.

 

As for Arya, I think she was laughing at the Hound getting denied his ransom again.  Everywhere he goes, he is denied.  And it's all bad timing.  It is rather funny, actually.  And now what?  Who will pay for her besides Tywin?  The Hound is certainly in a bind now.  And assuming they were turned away at the gate, will they run into Brienne and Pod?  I can't wait to find out!

Edited June 2, 2014 by Snowblack

[Ronin Jackson]

Well that blows.  I mean I'm not going to say I'm pissed that the story went there... certainly they deserve props for stringing me along so successfully, but man... next time the story introduces an awesome character, I hope I remember this note to myself:  Don't get too invested...

 

Still I doubt Tyrion will die... they probably still like to space out their gut wrenching blows a bit more than that...

Edited June 2, 2014 by Ronin Jackson

[90PercentGravity]

As for Arya, I think she was laughing at the Hound getting denied his ransom again.  Everywhere he goes, he is denied.  And it's all bad timing.  It is rather funny, actually.  And now what?  Who will pay for her besides Tywin?  The Hound is certainly in a bind now.

It reminded me of the scene in the movie Money Pit where the floor falls through and Tom Hanks just breaks into hysterical laughter. It's that breaking point where you just submit to Murphey's Law.

[AngelKitty]

I can't believe it! I yelled "No, no, no" out loud but they did it anyway.  I really thought Oberyn was going to win.  I hope the Mountain dies too.

 

Plus my heart broke for Jorah.

 

Poor Hound, will he never get paid? 

 

She's playing the long game with LF

 

Yeah, I don't think so.  I think she really does trust him.  I don't think she's smart enough to pull anything over on Littlefinger and it's his long game, not hers.

[ChocButterfly]

NOOOOOOOO! Stupid fucking show, they killed the only guy worth rooting for in this whole story! Now I don't even care if Tyrion dies, but of course he won't! 

 

Still, I don't understand why he's going to be executed, Oberyn died, but so did The Mountain. It wasn't even a tie, Oberyn had won already! I don't think he was being stupid or cocky, I mean at the beginning of the fight he kind of was; but at the end he wanted a confession in front of EVERYONE  that Tywin gave the order. I call bullshit that The Mountain was not only able to rise, but also had the strength to explore Oberyn' s head. Please Show. But he's dead too, wouldn't that make the whole Trial by Combat nule?

 

I don't care about the stupid beetles monologue. Why do they keep wasting time with such boring conversations?

 

I LOVED Arya laughing!!! It was  a great irony!

At first I thought Sansa was really falling for Littlefinger, but now I know she's becoming a Player. Good for you Sansa!

[DemosthenesKey]

Okay, thoughts on the episode!

First of all, Daenerys. It's official now. I despise her. I despise her from the top of her utterly blind eyes to the bottom of her pharisee boots (Pharisee is now an adjective). Don't you judge Jorah. There was a horrible moment where when he was begging her, he was saying "I lied for you, I killed for you" and it brought me back to last week's episode where Lysa was saying that right before Littlefinger offed her and I was terrified that she was going to kill him.

Exile is almost worse, in a way. But from this moment forward, I hate Dany. F**K her. Only reason I'm watching her scenes now is because Barristan seems all right-ish, and Grey Worm and Missandei are freakin' adorable.

Boltons! ... Yeah. I won't lie. I squeed a little bit when he made Ramsay a Trueborn Bolton. Even though they're both such awful people, it was just kind of - weirdly nice, for some reason.

Arya! Was funny, as always. The Hound is totally a dead man, but I've pretty much accepted that. I laughed right along with Arya at the news of her aunt's death. Speaking of...

Sansa/Littlefinger, the ship that the seven kingdoms fear! I'm actually kind of a VERY SLIGHT Littlefinger fan right now. All his advice just makes sense. 0_0 Sansa was gorgeous in that outfit at the end - she looked like a real Queen. And I think that someday she will DEFINITELY outsmart LF, just because that was some damn good acting in that little hearing they had going on.

Finally, the thing everyone's talking about.... I'm sorry, I can't get too worked up over it. I WILL admit that during the actual trial by combat, my heart was in my throat, because even though I was 80% sure that Oby was a dead man, that was one awesome fight scene. Speaking of which, if he's some kind of legendary poison master, he cut the Mountain at LEAST twice. Mountain's about to crumble, I think, with all those wounds he took.

Also also, wasn't he the brother of the Lord of Dorne, or something? And doesn't Dorne, y'know, HAVE the PRINCESS? Methinks that Cersei's smug bitch-face will be regretting her moment of triumph over her brother...

Oh yeah, and Tyrion. Dude's totally going to be fine. Oby was, it seems, our "Shocking Good Guy Death" of the season, and they don't usually hit us with more than one of those, unless you count Robb and Cat, which I count as just one shocking death scene...

And for the people saying that this show sucks, boo, it's all death of the good guys and no death of the bad.... This is the season we got to see Joffrey offed, fellas. JOFFREY. Bad guys die too! Locke, Lysa Arryn, Joffrey, (possibly) the Mountain - this is the season of vengeance. I for one am sticking to my guns. And my screen. c:

[stillshimpy]

Demos, dude, go borrow a cup of text breaks from the neighbors, would you please?  My eyes, my eyes. 

 

NOOOOOOOO! Stupid fucking show, they killed the only guy worth rooting for in this whole story! Now I don't even care if Tyrion dies, but of course he won't!

 

I can't say I'm overly surprised that Oberyn died, because it is a trope within this story.  A decent human being, with actual love and compassion within him?  Well, something horrific is going to happen to him, that's a given.  I thought he'd win and then come back to his quarters to find that Tywin or Cersie had poor Elaria horribly murdered and strewn in bits about the place.  But there's a problem with a complete inversion of the fairytale/fantasy genre, after a while that inversion is every bit as predictable as good always prevailing.  Here good always suffers and dies.   

 

Now, admittedly, part of what went on with Oberyn is that he couldn't simply take his victory without getting everything that he wanted out of it.  He'd beaten the Mountain, if he'd finished him off without trying to get a truly murderous opponent -- who as far as we know is not actually even capable of any human feelings, so his "confession" was doubly meaningless -- to say the words Oberyn wanted the word to hear.  Justice was winning the battle and Arrogance just fucking lost it. 

 

It wouldn't be so galling if I hadn't had to sit there and listen to Ramsay get his hearts desire.  Oh goody.  Ramsay was made happy by his loving Papa.  The poor, incredibly screwed North.  

 

At least we did find out that Ned and Robert grew up in the Eyrie. 

 

As for the development with Jorah, that sort of needed to finally be brought to light, but I didn't like the resolution not simply because Dany banished him.  I was pretty sure she simply would, but because she couldn't bear to have him killed.  I'm so glad Daario wasn't there to witness that, by the way, but what I hated was that there was no emotional payoff.  I waited four years to find out what Dany would say, how torn she might or might not be; to find out if age and maturity might temper her feelings of rage.  Or if the debacle of crucifying good human beings in the place of terrible ones might make her think carefully. 

 

But we didn't get to see any of that.  Instead we saw Jorah's fear and then Dany's Frost and that was it.  No clue how Dany took the news.  Did she cry?  Was there anguish, or just fury?  Did she have any trouble at all deciding what needed to be done? We'll never know.  Just "Dismissed!"  Great, waited four years for that? 

 

That's the other problem I'm having here.  Stories don't have to do what I want them to do for me to like them.  In fact, if that was my criteria, the only way I'd ever like anything would be to write my own. But here the pattern is "Oh, I like him! So he'll die.  Oh look! Ros actually took a moment to warn Shae to protect Sansa from LF! I like her....and....that ended predictably."   I can't say this pattern is fueling a good story, instead I get Ramsay's Queen for a Day for emotional satisfaction. 

 

Then a character I found to be humanly flawed is sent packing and there's no emotional ground covered.  I'm left to imagine it.  To write my own story, basically.  

 

It's unsatisfying on every level right now. 

[DemosthenesKey]

Apologies, Shimpy. :/ I swear I'm writing these with text breaks. I press "Enter" just like everyone else. But apparently it just posts it with no text breaks whatsoever, and my internet solidly refuses to boot itself up enough for me to edit it...

And upon further consideration, I feel I should amend my optimistic ways. If Tyrion dies - or if a major baddie DOESN'T die - by the end of the season, then I'm quitting the show. I feel willing to take this risk because A) I really, really don't think that the writing could possibly be this depressing ALL the way through, and B) If it actually is, then I'll be okay with quitting A Show.

[ChocButterfly]

I don't mind Dany's reaction. It's actually pretty accurate, she turns into this Ice Queen when she's hurt or betrayed. Hey, at least she didn't crucified Jorah! Although I do think we're going to see a bit of angst and regret from her afterwards. This is how she always operates, her rage makes her take this cold and harsh decisions and it's only after, and usually when somebody else shows her that things are not so black and white, that she realizes she may have been mistaken. Only problem is that the person who usually made her reconsider was Jorah. Now there's no Jorah to function as her conscience. I do find it odd and kind of cute that she was doing Missandei's hair and not the other way around. Why do these people think that a castrated man has no romantic feelings?? Love is not only down there guys!

 

I think going away and being fostered (or however you name it ) it's going to be great for Robyn. Hey, he finally has a chance to become a normal boy!

 

If Arya is in the Eerie now, shouldn't she meet with Sansa or Littlefinger?

 

Did Tyrion call Oberyn "The Viper of Doom"? That's an awesome nickname! Which, again, doesn't matter, because: DEAD!!! I'm pretty sure Jamie is going to help Tyrion escape. I mean, he has to be useful for something at least, he hasn't done anything worth since saving Brienne. And before that, killing the Mad King. And I still don't get why people like him.

[Mya Stone]

Mod note: hit enter twice. ;)

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

But we didn't get to see any of that.  Instead we saw Jorah's fear and then Dany's Frost and that was it.  No clue how Dany took the news.  Did she cry?  Was there anguish, or just fury?  Did she have any trouble at all deciding what needed to be done? We'll never know.  Just "Dismissed!"  Great, waited four years for that?

 

I have to agree. I expected when Jorah's secret inevitably came out that I"d be left in tears. I just wasn't... mostly because I saw it coming, and secondly because of what you say here. There was no hint that she was torn about it or anything. Maybe that was the point? but IDK it just felt false. Maybe she will have second thoughts later or perhaps start going crazy or making bad decisions due to regret.

 

 

That's the other problem I'm having here.  Stories don't have to do what I want them to do for me to like them.  In fact, if that was my criteria, the only way I'd ever like anything would be to write my own. But here the pattern is "Oh, I like him! So he'll die.  Oh look! Ros actually took a moment to warn Shae to protect Sansa from LF! I like her....and....that ended predictably."   I can't say this pattern is fueling a good story, instead I get Ramsay's Queen for a Day for emotional satisfaction.

 

I am expecting something awful to happen to Missandei/Grey Worm for just that reason. What is the point of that relationship development, other than being super cute?

 

 

I often roll my eyes at Danaerys, but this time, I understand her. There is no way she can trust Jorah now. We know he's devoted to her now, but she has no way of knowing if he is still manipulating her, a double agent etc.

 

I think the fact he had a pardon for YEARS and yet stuck with her says a lot, but I'm not Dany.

 

GAHHHHH okay my spec was SO WRONG AGAIN. I thought the big surprise would be Oberyn manages to take out the Mountain by a poisoned sword. I don't know whether to be glad the show still managed to fool me, or angry that I was fooled once again... I think Lysa's death the other week made me forget that the obvious isn't usually what happens on this show :/

 

I think going away and being fostered (or however you name it ) it's going to be great for Robyn. Hey, he finally has a chance to become a normal boy!

 

Did they say he was being fostered? I thought he was just going Outside! When LF talked about him learning to ride a horse, I wondered how long it'd be before he had an unfortunate, horse-related accident, a la Randall Tarly.

[90PercentGravity]

(Straying from the topic a  bit...) It would make sense that they leave the testes when they castrate the unsullied. They want the men to get strong, which requires testosterone. That would really suck to still have desire but no means to pursue it.

[MrMicrophone]

Dany the Ice Queen IS dany breaking inside. She is queen, she can't show weakness.

[DemosthenesKey]

Eesh, 90Percent, that would. 0_0 Sometimes I thank my lucky stars that I live in a (relatively) civilized era.And yeah, I knew I wasn't the only one thinking when LF was talking to Robin, "Oooooh, that kid is DEFINITELY going to suffer a Terrible Accident..."

Bollocks. It's definitely my internet - whenever I try to edit it (because in a place with better wifi, it did the same thing but I was able to fix it by editing it and just backspacing an enter, then pressing Enter again and THEN the text break would magically appear for some reason) it just tells me TypeError: Cannot read property 'getText' of undefined. Sorry, all. I'll try to keep my thoughts short, and in easy-to-read chunks. >_

[90PercentGravity]

Demos, do you have any browser add-ons? Maybe something is conflicting with the site's formatting.

[capt planet]

You know what, fuck this show.  I get it, it's "the Wire of fantasy," which means it's morally gray for the sake of moral grayness.  But tell me how in the hell is a scene in which a guy practically springs back to life to then crush his opponent's skull not a complete farce?  I mean, that's either meant to be gross-out comedy of the most annoying kind, or this writer honestly thought something like that adds "edginess" to show that already beats you over the head with how fucking dark it is.

 

Arya's exasperated laughter summarized my feelings about this show: no hope, nothing to look forward to, no fucking point to it all.  Actually, that dovetail's well with Tyrion's story, doesn't it?

[90PercentGravity]

I suppose it is no coincidence that Ramsey Snow-Bolton got rewarded for his misdeeds in the same episode Oberyn was punished for his valor.

[stillshimpy]

Right, so for about one second I was simply glad they didn't just kill Robyn, because I've been assuming that Petyr would do that with a quickness.  

 

Then they killed Oberyn.  Yay.  Take that.  Keep Robyn, lose the charismatic character.  Jeez, Show.  

 

Also, whereas I am glad that Sansa managed to get her game face on and keep the only ally she's got, I'm now doubly terrified for her because she can't play on a level playing field with Littlefinger.  It's good that she has a clear-eye about who he is and what he wants, but man, it looked for all the world like she's out to try and keep him on a string...that will not work.  Not by a lot, I'm guessing. 

[abelard]

Okay random thought of the morning:

 

When Tyrion says that there's a word for every kind of killing, regicide, patricide, matricide, etc.  Jaime says, "Cousins."  Because Jaime killed their cousin Lannister to get free when he was being held captive by Robb and Catelyn.  Jaime's done the kind of killing that there's no name for.

 

Still pi**ed at the loss of Oberyn.  Now I hope Elaria becomes a major figure.  Though maybe all she will be is the person who tells Dorne what happened so they can get good and pi**ed off.  As pi**ed off as I am.

[capt planet]

Elaria's actress Indira Varma is one of those "well known (to me)" actors, so I'm hoping she ends up killing all of those MFers, but who knows.  I really wanted Oberyn to chuck his spear at Tywin, too, but alas...

[izabella]

I thought Sansa at the end was definitely dressing up like Cat.  Probably using one of Lysa's gowns, one that she thought was most like what Cat would wear, and she did her hair like her mom's, too.

 

I thought that would be one of Lysa's dresses, too, since I'm pretty sure I remember Lysa wearing feathers...maybe.  What is the sigil of House Arryn?  Does it have a bird or bird feathers on it?  The Tully's in the Riverlands have armor that looks like fish scales, so it would have to be an Arryn/bird dress.

 

If Arya is in the Eerie now, shouldn't she meet with Sansa or Littlefinger?

 

They ended that scene with Arya's laughter, so I don't think they are actually in the Eyrie.  They were outside the main gate, and I don't see why they would be let inside at this point unless someone tells Littlefinger they are out there and he lets them in.

 

I don't know where Arya and the Hound would go at this point.  The Wall to Jon Snow?   Are there any Tullys left alive in the Riverlands? 

 

And I don't think Arya and the Hound will be together much longer.  They made a point of saying he was walking slower because of the wound on his shoulder, and how Arya should have cauterized it, so I expect him to die of infection eventually like Drogo. 

 

Someone mentioned in the last episode thread how little reaction there was from Arya at learning that Joffrey was dead, including not asking any questions about Sansa.  So this episode, we get some reaction from her about Joffrey, but she STILL makes no mention of Sansa, not even to wonder, well, anything about her.  I guess it bothers me, a lot, that Arya seems to have completely forgotten about Sansa.

[janjan]

Arya's exasperated laughter summarized my feelings about this show: no hope, nothing to look forward to, no fucking point to it all.  Actually, that dovetail's well with Tyrion's story, doesn't it?

That's the "universal joke," which has been a Show's motif since the death of Ned. GRRM sounds like a 1950s Existentialist -- they explored this territory pretty thoroughly. It's a dead end, both philosophically and plot-wise -- hence the introduction of dragons and zombonis to liven things up a bit. Note to showrunners: they're needed now.

[stillshimpy]

It doesn't bother me that Arya seems to have forgotten about Sansa.  They were on bad terms in that sibling rivalry sort of way and so much of what Arya has become is not...how to put this...going to reside well with more tender feelings.  I think when Arya saw Rob's body and the way it had been desecrated, she simply broke.  That she became one of those people who firmly believe it is not only unsafe to love people, but actively damaging. 

 

So I don't expect her to ever mention Sansa again.  I think Arya chose to just let go of her family in that moment and become Assassin Girl, with a list.  Like she thinks she's a Faceless Man and she didn't just change her face in that moment, she changed her heart.  

 

I also doubt they are plodding into the Eyrie now, The Hound will have no expectation that anyone other than a relative will pay for Arya and The Hound wants that money.  I do agree he's likely becoming ill, but I think what might happen is that Arya will choose to stay with him.  I expect he believes he's now got to get her to The Wall. 

 

Oh...speaking of that.  Hooray.  Cannibals.  What joy. 

[janjan]

I don't know where Arya and the Hound would go at this point.  The Wall to Jon Snow?   Are there any Tullys left alive in the Riverlands?

The Blackfish escaped the Red Wedding, and Edmure spent his wedding night in Frey's dungeon. So maybe . . .

 

Arya - go find Jaq'en. Now!

 

Word to the observation above that Sansa is trying to string LF along. Oww. What could possibly go wrong with that.

[capt planet]

Killing off Ned was "messed up" but "daring".  "Wow, they killed off a big time actor (even though Sean Bean dies in everything, so we should have known)!  How cool!"  With this, it's just getting old.  Give me some Jack Nicholson's Joker to temper this Heath Ledger.  Or a "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down" one-off.

[DirewolfPup]

I found it hard to sleep after this show. Head squishing? After getting stabbed in the stomach and leg tendons snapped? WTH?

 

I worry for my poor Sansa. It's good that she can play the game a bit and not always be a victim, but this is a 180.

[stillshimpy]

Hey, one more thing on the "Okay, this seems like a mistake to me."  Why couldn't they put freaking Ramsay's Reward in a different episode?  The Iron Islanders seem to be a bunch of Weasels, really or at least prone to being Weasels.  This is one of those: Only on this show! Things, I was glad that the relatively noble and honorable Iron Islander who was telling Theon to go fuck off (while pulling a Boo-Radley-worthy coughing fit) ...got to die before Ramsay's inevitable deception.  

 

"We promise we will let you return to your homes unharmed..." and instead that guy was clearly skinned and had an eye put out to boot.  So I was glad poor Noble Guy had it end with a swift (if traitorous) hatchet to the head. 

 

That's what passes for a good thing on this show these days.  

 

I found it hard to sleep after this show. Head squishing? After getting stabbed in the stomach and leg tendons snapped? WTH?

 

Right?  On top of absolutely everything else, the man was hamstrung!! Only with the aid of pulleys and some Burly men on ropes should he have been able to spring up and do anything, but certainly not anything that required being able to hold anything down.  

Edited June 2, 2014 by stillshimpy

[izabella]

Word to the observation above that Sansa is trying to string LF along. Oww. What could possibly go wrong with that.

 

I worry for my poor Sansa. It's good that she can play the game a bit and not always be a victim, but this is a 180.

 

I love that Sansa has stepped up and used her brain, but LF is no pushover.  He has now seen with his own eyes how Sansa can turn on the tears and can put on a show for her own benefit - he's not going to fall for it if she tries it with him. 

 

And for her to be in cahoots with LF...yeah, what could possibly go wrong?

[arry the orphan]

 

Killing off Ned was "messed up" but "daring".  "Wow, they killed off a big time actor (even though Sean Bean dies in everything, so we should have known)!  How cool!"  With this, it's just getting old.

 

It depends where the story goes from here. If Joffrey had kept his end of the deal, Ned would have gone to the Wall. Robb would have returned to Winterfell with his army and Balon Greyjoy would not have attacked the defenseless North. The War would have been between the Lannisters, Renly and Stannis.

 

I expect that Oberyns death will also lead to something more. Last episode Lysa died, this episode Oberyn. The Vale and Dorne are the only two kingdoms that have not taken part in the war. I think that will change next season.

 

Bolton's army vs. the Wildlings?

Vale vs. Freys in the Riverlands?

Dorne (with Stannis?) against Tyrells and Lannisters?

Edited June 2, 2014 by arry the orphan

[gingerella]

(Straying from the topic a  bit...) It would make sense that they leave the testes when they castrate the unsullied. They want the men to get strong, which requires testosterone. That would really suck to still have desire but no means to pursue it.

Just a clarification on castration - what it is and what it is not - from a former horsewoman...When they castrate a male horse (he is then called a gelding, so you know it is a male castrated horse), the remove the balls, IIRC, pretty much entirely, because it settles them down a lot, but they still go all weird when they smell a mare in heat so even no balls does not kill certain natural desires, it just makes them less aggressive.  I doubt very much that they removed the penis, that does not make sense. How would you pee?*

 

*wondering aloud, how does Reek pee?  Nevermind, I don't give a shit about him.

 

RE: the feathers on the shoulders of Lyssa's and Sansa's dress...an Aerie is an eagle's nest that is high up with an advantageous view point for the eagles to spot prey. So I assume that the word Eyrie is a bastardization of that word and thus, there must be a bird in their sigil somewhere, hence the feathered shoulder pads, which look very Alexis Carrington/Dynasty to me.

 

I hadn't thought about the fact that since LF has seen firsthand how Sansa faked it with the Vale council people, now he knows she can fake it, period. That does not bode well for Sansa...

 

I am worried for Elaria.

 

Thank you for the clarification that the Mountain actually was indeed dead. Good riddance to a nasty character.

 

Lastly, I am starting to think, and agree with some above posts, that GRRM is actually NOT that great a writer/storyteller because it's just gory death redux over and over and over, like the bloody, gory version of "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!" We get it already. For this circular drivel you needed to write how many fucking books on this shit? Unless the books are way, Way, WAY better than A Show, I fail to see how this constitutes good story telling.

Edited June 2, 2014 by gingerella

[stillshimpy]

Yeah, I think because Varys was mutilated entirely there's been an assumption that the Show Unsullied wouldn't be intact except for their testicles.  They are likely intact except for their testicles.  That's why Dany asked if Grey Worm was at least partially there.  He likely is.  

[RimaTheBirdGirl]

 

guess it bothers me, a lot, that Arya seems to have completely forgotten about Sansa.

But Arya hasn't forgotten Sansa!  When Jaq'en urged her to come to Bravos with him, right before his lovely face changed, Arya said she couldn't, because she had to find her brothers.  And reluctantly added, "And my sister."  She repeated it too, I think, as if she had to convince herself, "I have to find my sister."  

 

I looooved that.   Arya's last conversation with Sansa was Sansa wailing about Ned forcing her to abandon her marriage-to-Joffrey plans, way back in Season 1.  Arya has every reason to think ill of Sansa.  She clearly does.  But she remains connected, and adolescently loyal.  And all I want out of Show is a Stark sibling reunion. 

[stillshimpy]

But Arya hasn't forgotten Sansa!  When Jaq'en urged her to come to Bravos with him, right before his lovely face changed, Arya said she couldn't, because she had to find her brothers.  And reluctantly added, "And my sister."  She repeated it too, I think, as if she had to convince herself, "I have to find my sister."

 

True, Rima, but that was before the soul-destruction that occurred when Arya found Robb and her mother.  

 

Seriously, I can't imagine Arya ever trying to find any of her family again after that.  She saw Robb's body, with his wolf's head speared atop it, as people treated his corpse like a puppet.  

 

Maybe it's just me...but that would dissuade me from trying to find MY family.  "Oh...well, there are bad plans and then there are spectacularly bad plans with astronomically bad outcomes...and yet somehow, this even worse than the latter.  Boggles the (now broken) mind." 

 

I really don't find it in the least surprising that Arya failed to ask about Sansa or mention her, the last damned thing she wants to is find her family because the last time she did?  Oh with the mental trauma, enough to last a full lifetime, several reincarnations and a goodly dose of the time in hell between. 

[ChocButterfly]

I still don't get why Tyrion has been sentenced to death if both The Mountain and Oberyn are dead. Yo, that's supposed to be a tie! So, technically, Tyrion didn't lose, he didn't win, but he didn't lose either. What are the stupid rules of this thing?

 

And I think the Unsullied are supposed to be fully castrated. I'd say, specially the penis, because if not, no one would refer to them as "not real men". Like they do now to poor Theon.

 

Well, at least poor Gilly survived. She's going to be the ultimate survivor of the whole series, she and Sam. And after everyone else is dead, they'll repopulate the Earth.

[Epeolatrix]

I am expecting something awful to happen to Missandei/Grey Worm for just that reason. What is the point of that relationship development, other than being super cute?

Grey Worm now has feelings for someone other than Daenerys. Will she be amused and tolerant or will she see it as a threat to her need to dominate of all she surveys? Missandei keeps trying to pull from Grey Worm his memories of life before becoming Unsullied. If he comes to sees himself as more of an individual man with his own desires and not just those of the Khaleesi, will that change anything?

 

At least I hope there's more to it than cuteness, because this is a gritty dark show about dark grittiness hiding in the shadows of a greater grittier darkness and nothing marginally pleasant can survive.

[WhiteStumbler]

Well, at least poor Gilly survived. She's going to be the ultimate survivor of the whole series, she and Sam. And after everyone else is dead, they'll repopulate the Earth.

ENOUGH with the incest!!! ;-)

 

RE: "Full" castration...

S5E1: SCENE - An inn on the Kingsroad.

Varys: Welcome to the first meeting of the Pillar and Stones Society Support Group. My name is Varys and I was cut as a child.

Reek and Grey Worm (in unison): Hi Varys.

[ChocButterfly]

Well, at least poor Gilly survived. She's going to be the ultimate survivor of the whole series, she and Sam. And after everyone else is dead, they'll repopulate the Earth.

ENOUGH with the incest!!! ;-)

Heh, I actually meant Sam, Jon's friend. But I see what you did there ;p

[WhiteStumbler]

This show warps me. Seriously.

 

I am hoping that Jorah is off to join the mercenary company that Stannis seemed on the verge of hiring after his Lannister Replacement loan from the Iron Bank of Braavos came thru. Wishful thinking, and probably geographically impossible, but characters seem able to haul ass when the plot needs them to. Go Jorah! You and Davos would make an awfully good brain trust for Stannis - how do you feel about fire? Religion? Fire religions?