S01.E06: Three to Tango

[Lisin]

Amy agrees to a threesome with Liam and Karma, while Shane steps in for Lauren's dance partner.

[bravelittletoaster]

Omg it was so gooooooooood! I have nothing articulate to say about it yet tho because I'm a little too busy flailing. I didn't think I shipped them, really, but I'm really excited that--as a few people hoped / predicted--Karma had a "woah" moment of her own she has to reckon with.

I thought that was the best episode so far, not just for all that but because the B plot worked well too. I hope people watched it and MTV renews it. I want to see everywhere they can go with this.

[superman1204]

Definitely one of the show's best episodes, if for no other reason than that the threesome wasn't a gimmick that did nothing to advance the storyline.  Instead, Amy was proactive in addressing her feelings with Karma, Liam and the other guys were amusing, and Karma had a revelation about her relationship with Amy (even if the specifics of that revelation remain to be seen).  Also the show made me completely forget a relationship between the two girls is almost guarantee to fail (at least in the real world) and had me thinking why can't Karma see how she is torturing Amy.  The only thing that worries me is that Karma's revelation was that she couldn't share Liam, because as much as I like both the girls, Karma is close to being too self centered to root for.

 

Also I have to agree with bravelittletoaster that B plot worked well too.  I don't watch that much TV or at least not that many high school dramas, but the idea that Shane and Lauren are basically the same person just with different political views seems completely new and honestly more complex than I expected from this show.

Edited May 28, 2014 by superman1204

[mjgchick]

Good lord that was an entertaining episode. I love how both Amy and Liam kept calling Shane yet he was busy helping Carrie Dolleganger with her dance. I knew Lauren wasn't a homophobe. I don't know who curses more between her and Amy. The mouths on those two young ladies almost put me to shame. I love it. lol Its pretty cool that we keep seeing this vulnerable side to Lauren. I'm going to assume we'll get a Lauren/Amy bonding time in the last few episodes. At least I hope we do.

Liam is not believable as a playboy at all to me. Amy took charge of the whole situation and yet the show continues to tell us that she's the shy one? lol

The question is who is Karma jealous of? Is it Amy kissing Liam or Liam kissing Amy?

Shallow note wowza at Katie and Rita's get ups. Both are way hotter than Gregg and I'm straight. lol

[Izeinwinter]

Those two are not mutually exclusive. Being territorial about both of them would be perfectly in character.

But I fear that Karma is having an insecurity fit - Amy turned the sexy up as high as it goes, and it seems likely that Karma managed to not notice the artillery was aimed at her, not Liam. 

 

Which I actually find a tad hard to believe. Karma can bloody well read Amy's mind on every other issue under the sun, but the fact that Amy wants to sex her up until she cries uncle, that she fails to spot? At this point I just really need Amy to spell it out for her. 

 

Funny: some of the advice on how to do a threesome was actually pretty good,  Except everyone missed the big one - "Honest communication in advance!"  - the whole deal might actually have gone relatively smoothly if everyone had been clear Karma was the filling, but I suppose that might have been a tad more R rated than is appropriate, even with a fade to black. 

[Cranberry]

That was so good. Seriously so good. I'm glad that Karma was the one to back out first, and I agree that she was possibly jealous of the both of them -- she doesn't want to share Liam or Amy. The promo showed that she wants to "break up" with Amy next episode, but whether that's because she wants to pursue Liam alone or because she's worried that she's starting to feel an attraction to Amy remains to be seen. Honestly, it could still go either way (or both ways). But yeah. I think the show handled the whole threesome situation very well.

 

I love Shane and Lauren together. They have a nice frenemy thing going on, and it was smart of the show to point out that they're very similar people (and to give Shane a bit of character growth in having him turn down a date with a hot guy). I liked that Pablo was a Christian, too, and called Shane out on his belief that all Christians are homophobic. This show is good. It's so much better than I expected, and we'd better get a second season.

[Barbican]

GAH. Loved it. I felt like I was reliving my teenage years: angst, sweaty palms and fluttering butterflies when Amy decidedly kissed Karma. Also, like Karma, my jaw hit the floor when Amy took off her coat. 

I never got the vibe that Karma was anything other than straight but now, I'm not sure. She's definitely self-centered considering she doesn't realize that Amy has feelings for her, I mean can't she see the signs? Why on earth would Amy agree to a threesome in the first place? I know those people are supposed to be teenage kids but at this point, there are SO MANY signs that really it's like Karma isn't even trying. Which is weird since last episode she was an awesome friend to Amy. 

 

Let's Black Swan those bitches! I laughed out loud.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Barbican

[bravelittletoaster]

I loved something as simple as the reversal on "Woah" and "I know" from the first episode. Maybe the show is dangling over us the mystery of whom Karma was most jealous in the threesome, but frankly I'm not sure she knows. Or was experiencing rational thought in that moment beyond the fact that she was feeling things she didn't expect to feel and needed to get out of that room. But I thought that Katie Stevens played her reaction to the kiss straight up--that moment at least was about Amy, and I loved her "I know" because it was fraught with "I've been waiting for you to catch up to me here."

So adorable. So bound for heartbreak. Ha.
As much as the show seems to give away each week in its promo materials, it really does play its cards pretty close to the vest. Only two episodes left and I'm still not sure exactly where they're heading.

I wish MTV would fucking renew it already.

Edited May 28, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[Schmolioot]

Great episode, but I still think Karma is being painted as too self absorbed or dumb at this point.

How can she not know that Amy is at least curious about being with her/a woman at this point? Even before the kiss. Amy wasn't exactly hiding her interest in the scenario.

And she still comes off as a user more than a friend.

But regardless, the threesome scene was great. And no way that threesome would have lasted more than about 8 seconds the way it was going. In fact, I doubt even Liam who is Mr. Experienced, could have lasted until the actual deed.

[tricksterson]

I love this show!  it's willing to go places most shows are afraid to like gay-sympathetic Christianity and characters that are ambiguous about their own sexuality, not quite settling into straight, gay or even bi and yet it deals seriously with these subjects while still managing to be funny as hell.  And Lauren, who started as a complete alpha-bitch stereotype may yet develop into the most three dimensional character of all.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

the whole deal might actually have gone relatively smoothly if everyone had been clear Karma was the filling

I think it was clear to everyone, but Karma thought the whole thing was a ruse, so she hadn't factored in Amy actually being there and engaging with her and Liam. I thought the advice Liam got about starting with the girl he's least into was terrible and I wasn't surprised that him following up on that was when things went off the rails. That advice might have been appropriate if he was the filling, but he wasn't and knew it. And you can't blindly follow "rules" like that anyway.

[CaliforniaLove]

 

Which I actually find a tad hard to believe. Karma can bloody well read Amy's mind on every other issue under the sun, but the fact that Amy wants to sex her up until she cries uncle, that she fails to spot? At this point I just really need Amy to spell it out for her.

 

Amy was being WAY too obvious for Karma not to realize (which it seems she did at the end). I don't know how she wouldn't notice Amy not taking her eyes off her when they were lingerie shopping. Speaking of which, how cute was Amy during rehearsal when Karma took off her coat to reveal her standing there in a wife-beater & flannel shorts?

 

I think that Karma's reaction at the end had way more to do with Amy than with Liam. After the kiss, Karma looked almost elated & like she wanted to go in for more...when Liam jumped up & grabbed Amy, it was almost like he broke the starry-eyed spell Karma was under & that's what harshly jerked her back to the reality of what they were about to do & she bailed.

 

[Schmolioot]

I wonder if Liam will now find himself attracted to Amy, which opens a whole other can of worms.

Don't get me wrong, Karma is a cute kid, but there is no contest between the two. None.

[mjgchick]

Well to be fair maybe Liam likes Karma'spersonality? He and Amy have never had scenes on their own. I don't see Liam falling for Amy. I think Karma thinks amy might like Liam though. That girl does not like sharing which is why they need to bring on someone new for Amy. I vote that Jasmine girl because she was cute and sweet about Amys's situation.

Edited May 28, 2014 by mjgchick

[Schmolioot]

Ratings are out.

0.4, 858,000 viewers. Virtually the same as the last 3 weeks.

It's not a huge hit by any stretch but Faking It has become an incredibly consistent performer. Not sure what else MTV could possibly want at this point.

Renew it, promote the hell out of the final two episodes and figure out a way to make people aware of the superstar currently toiling on MTV and see what you can drum up for season 2.

If Rita has a good agent, she won't be around much more than another year or two.

[bravelittletoaster]

As much as I follow the business of tv, I've never paid attention to MTV, so I'm not even sure what their expectations are or what they reasonably *should* be able to expect?  I mean, I know what good/bad ratings are for network shows, and I have a pretty good sense of what most basic cable expects, but MTV, not so much.  It's 10:30 pm on a Tuesday night.  858,000 looks pretty good to me for them under those circumstances, but I have no idea.

 

I know that Glee pulls wretched numbers [like well under 2 million at this point] at 8 pm on a fucking network and for some reason the universe is still cursing us with  more of that shit, so I would hope someone would smile down kindly on this little gem of a show.

[Schmolioot]

Yeah, I don't know MTV's expectations, and whatever they were it's a certainty that Faking It hasn't blown them out of the water, but it is holdinh Awkward's elad in fairly well and is nearly identical to Awkward in the demo.

It seems to me that if you are a cable network, if you have a show with what is now a consistent, core audience of 850,000, that is at least worth another season. It's also a quality show that still has room for improvement. The show almost has to reinvent itself as the "faking it" premsie has already mostly disappeared.

They have a superstar in waiting, some great chemistry amongst the leads, including untapped chemistry between Amy and Lauren (which is probably coming), and a potential comedy goldmine that is Hester High, which is a high school Greendale.

A cable network shouldn't give up on that potential

[Izeinwinter]

I am rewatching right now, and oh god, the little perfect details.
"I dont think there is any way to avoid that", and melting into the hug.
Liam claiming to not be a dude bro, and then next scene with him, every 4th word is "dude" or "bro". The way he raided the condom bowl, too. I mean ambition, much? ;-)
The musical escalation after rehearse, and Amy's face? 

The rehearsal scene was just adorable. I mean, my heart broke a little bit when Karmy said she expected Amy to bail, but oh so cute.

 

The final scene. Oh. My Divine Goddess. Confession: I was so worried about issues of informed concent going into this, but not everything needs to be said, and the way Amy invites Karma in and then waits? That was just perfect. 

 

Amy definitely did kiss Liam back, which confused me for a bit, since she really doesn't like him, but then I realized. She was putting on a show. It's an inversion of threesomes being about the male gaze - When the girls were kissing, they both utterly ignored Liam, but at the end of the Amy/Liam kiss, they looked to Karma. 

Then like every other episode of faking it, it ends on a sad Amy. Rita Volk gives amazing sadface.

 

I.. do not understand how Rita has not been on a million things already. Going from her interviews, she'd been doing the audition circuit for a while, which.. How does a casting director have that woman walk in and think it is a good idea to say no ?

 

Re; Renewal, all I can think of is that maybe the executives are not super sold on whatever the pitch for season 2 is? 

Because the show really has burned it's initial premise all up. 

More cynically, renewal lobbying is churning up a heck of a lot of social media activity, so maybe they are just holding of on announcing. 

Edited May 28, 2014 by Izeinwinter

[Cranberry]

It seems to me that if you are a cable network, if you have a show with what is now a consistent, core audience of 850,000, that is at least worth another season. 

 

I think it's possible at this point that MTV fully intends to renew the show but is holding off on saying so until the season ends. Right now the hardcore fans are falling over themselves to give the show tons of free publicity with their Twitter campaigns (they make something Faking It-related trend worldwide almost every day). The writers and Carter Covington also seem pretty confident. I just don't see why MTV wouldn't order a second season. It's not like they have tons of quality scripted television to take its place.

[bravelittletoaster]

Yeah, I was just bitching to a friend who's a big Orphan Black fan and also waiting for renewal notice that I think the networks have cottoned onto how much free social media publicity they get by withholding this particular carrot.  It's annoying, but I'd probably do the same thing in their shoes.

 

Still, it makes me love Netflix all the more with their "we're renewing this shit before it airs, bitches" approach to things.

[mjgchick]

When Amy told Karma to relax I awwed at how amazing of a partner Amy will be some day.

And yeah I think MTV is likely to renew the show. Awkward didn't start of with good ratings and neither did Teen Wolf and Teen Wolf is way more expensive to make. I think the difference between R J Burger and InbeTweeners is that it didn't have a following that Awkward and Faking seems to have right now.

[dohe]

The oblivious teen who, while falling for someone they barely know, is unaware that their best friend is in love with them is nothing new.  John Hughes made a career out of such stories and they didn't always end the same.  In Pretty in Pink, the best friend is left on the sidelines with only a brief shot of a teenage girl to let us know he won't always be alone.  In Some Kind of Wonderful, the best friend is the one as her love is requited by the person she has always loved.  Until the last few moments of this episode of it was unclear if Amy, the best friend in love, even had a possibility.  By the end, the ramifications of an attempted threesome were evident.  Liam loves Karma.  Amy loves Karma.  And Karma is confronting a scenario she never thought of - that she is sexually and romantically attracted to both a man and a woman.

 

The episode is the strongest yet. Lauren and Shane are given a subplot that works to humanize Lauren even more and underscore that Shane has his own problems.  His rejection of Pablo based on Pablo's desire for something more meaningful that a meaningless hookup is a disappointing moment.  Amy looks likely to have her own disappointment when Karma states the plan involving Amy's leaving of the room.  But then Amy disrobes stunning both Karma and Liam.  That is only the start.  The final sequence of the episode opens with Amy standing before Karma with Liam as the observer.  As Amy begins kissing Karma, the camera shot is angled as to leave Liam out of the shot.  The moment is not about him.  It is about Karma's reaction.  She says "whoa" but whereas in the first episode it was followed by a comment which made evident that Karma was impressed by Amy selling the moment, here it is solely about the kiss and what it meant to Karma.  She is staggered and stares at Amy as if, for the first time, actually seeing her.  Then Liam enters the shot and it is purposefully jarring to us.  This was not supposed to be meaningful for Karma.  It was supposed to be a tease before the main event.  But now Karma's world has shifted and Liam is no longer the center of the universe for her.  Amy and Liam, both playing along to Karma's whims, enact a kiss more designed for someone else's attention.  That is because it is their way of saying Karma we are playing along right.  But Karma's world has been upended.  She glances at Amy and then Liam and then Amy and then Liam.  She is at a loss.  She is torn and, in being torn between two people, there can be nothing worse than seeing these two people kiss due to her own plan.  She can't stand Liam kissing her Amy and she can't stand Amy kissing her Liam. 

 

So we end with Shane and Karma possibly the two most conflicted people on Faking It. 

Edited May 28, 2014 by dohe

[aradia22]

So, this was a thing. I didn't enjoy it as much as the rest of you. I don't think there was much humor and the humor that was there fell flat for me. And I love ballroom dancing (and most non-sport competitions) but that had no... pow to it. I will only accept this storyline if it changes the Shane/blond girl (I can't remember her name) relationship or if Pablo comes back. This episode felt like it was supposed to be particularly titillating, more than all the shirtless Matty scenes on Awkward because of the intimacy of it. Liam came across as a little too goofy. I think they're struggling with his character. They want to make him desirable but they also want to make him the bad guy sometimes and then they're struggling against the actor's looks. It's just... not working very well. That said, I liked the last 1/2 or 1/3 of the episode when Amy took charge and turned the tables on Karma. We've been talking about how the show has made Karma quite selfish and unlikable so far so this was a nice change of pace. Hmn... what else? I kind of liked the music and I appreciate that MTV puts the artist and song at the bottom of the screen. I guess that's it.

[bravelittletoaster]

I actually never felt they really were going for titillation, which is strange for a threesome episode.  I expected that, and I guess there was a little insofar as Amy was half naked and has a rocking bod, but personally had to give credit to the show in that I felt like the threesome really was intended to move the plot forward and shake up everyone's dynamics rather than intended just to advertise a threesome for several weeks [though they did, so you could argue they had their cake and ate it too.]  While the promo dept certainly sold it as titillation, for me, at the end of the day, it didn't come across that way.

[possibilities]

I thought they made a threesome look more terrifying than sexy, except for the Amy-Karma kiss, which they were specifically trying to sell, like they sold the one at the public rally, and for the same reason. I think it's fairly bold for TV to have high school kids shown in their underwear having threesomes, without any sideshow moralizing (similar to the casual way they have the kids go to bars underage), but this show doesn't make them seem like 40 year olds, either. They still seem like teens, and I appreciate that. There wasn't even one scene of anyone anticipating the threesome as anything but a nervous wreck. And I looooooe that Amy is not being portrayed as the sad left-out lesbian who is sooooo sad and such a martyr and tagging along while the hettzies have all the fun and she cries in her herbal tea over how lonely she is.... We don't need a modern "Well of Loneliness" for teens, and we're not getting one, either! She comes across as the most grounded person in the show, and the one you'd most want as a friend or lover, in my view.

Edited May 30, 2014 by possibilities

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I think that Karma's reaction at the end had way more to do with Amy than with Liam. After the kiss, Karma looked almost elated & like she wanted to go in for more...when Liam jumped up & grabbed Amy, it was almost like he broke the starry-eyed spell Karma was under & that's what harshly jerked her back to the reality of what they were about to do & she bailed.

What he did was firmly put things on the road to a stereotypical threesome, which is not the scenario Karma had planned in which to lose her virginity. Amy was just supposed to be there to facilitate getting Karma and Liam started together before disappearing. BTW, where did Liam get the idea Amy had any interest in him or guys in general to be grabbing her (the advice of his two "helpers" notwithstanding)?

[bravelittletoaster]

And I looooooe that Amy is not being portrayed as the sad left-out lesbian who is sooooo sad and such a martyr and tagging along while the hettzies have all the fun and she cries in her herbal tea over how lonely she is.... We don't need a modern "Well of Loneliness" for teens, and we're not getting one, either! She comes across as the most grounded person in the show, and the one you'd most want as a friend or lover, in my view.

Preach.  I see some whinging on Tumblr about the show's depiction of the lesbians as popular and how, I dunno, any gay character on tv should be unloved and kicked around like an abused puppy and....I'm sympathetic to a kid who feels that that's his or her own experience and wants to see it reflected in popular culture but to be honest, a: we've done that.  We did that for fucking decades.  b: I believe in the power of pop culture as self-fulfilling prophecy.  You could have made a similar argument about the Cosbys in the 80s, that they didn't represent the reality for a lot of people out there, but personally I just prefer to go aspirational here. 

[aradia22]

 

Preach.  I see some whinging on Tumblr about the show's depiction of the lesbians as popular and how, I dunno, any gay character on tv should be unloved and kicked around like an abused puppy and....

I have no problem with that but right now I'm worried about the longterm future of the show. Maybe it's just because I'm in the middle of the long slog that is Awkward but there's a problem with a world without real tension or danger. Not that I want something bad to happen to any of the characters but this world feels too sanitized and enclosed. It's very much like someone's dollhouse where they just get to move the dolls around from week to week without any sense of consequences (besides all the feels) or danger. I think it might help to not resolve every single plotline (aside from all the feels) in one episode and to then pick up threads in the next episode. When I mean danger I mean renting a sleazy motel room, almost getting caught at a bar, Lauren texting a racy picture of herself to Tommy. It's great that we're averting a lot of common plotlines but there's nothing to replace them with any bite (except for... say it with me, all the feels). 

[possibilities]

I think Liam has been getting completely mixed signals, so I wasn't offended by his behavior at the 3some. This is what happens when straight or bi girls claim to be lesbians. It gives guys the idea that actual lesbians are interested in their male attention. Because of how Karma has been acting and representing herself, and then Amy agreeing to join the two of them, he had no reason to assume Amy would not be interested in him. And since she was the first person to "make a move" and also the person literally closest to him physically at that moment, for him to "jump in" and kiss Amy instead of pushing past her to go to Karma, to me, seemed like an attempt at politeness or fairness or something (plus who knows, maybe he does find her hot, who wouldn't?). They didn't discuss expectations or why they each were there, so his guessing seems innocent to me. To assume "everyone gets equal attention" doesn't seem offensive to me, even if it wasn't what everyone actually wanted. In the absence of communication, I think it's a forgivable guess.

 

RE: stakes, for me, the emotional stakes feel very high on this show. I've seen kids get in trouble for underage drinking, sexting, and other teen reckless behaviors. Degrassi is the go to place for that stuff! I like that this show is more for the internal stuff. A show that's less cautionary tale and more "the introvert's dilemma" or something like that? I think it differs from Awkward in that on Awkward they seem to reset the drama every season, with Jenna right back where she was before, lusting for Matty and fucking it up yet again due to not knowing what she wants and not communicating honestly. I am hoping Faking it will actually follow through on relationship consequences and emotional growth, instead of just roiling in the repetitive quicksand of a protagonist who never seems to grow.

 

So far, for instance, I like that they showed that Shane's a selfish and shallow person like Lauren in some ways. I have not liked him since he outed the girls (it's wrong to do anyway, but they kept telling him it wasn't even true, making it even worse). I also like that they've shown Amy to be wrong, like how she acted at the engagement party. I would like to see more fallout from those moments, and maybe there will be. I think that's where the longevity of the show can be. The initial drama is the question of whether the attraction is mutual. After that's clear one way or the other, what is the fallout? In real life, that is a real thing that has real consequences. I hope the show will do something with that. But of course, you never know with a TV show, if it will live up to its potential or just be crap. So far I'm not bored, though, so I'm enjoying it while I can.

[bravelittletoaster]

Maybe it's because I over identify with Amy, but I feel like the stakes are very high every week, because she's trying to work her way through an untenable position. Those are all the stakes I need.

[ybrik]

Best episode so far.

 

I have to say Katie Stevens really has an expressive face. She definitely makes what could be a character that could be hard to like likeable. I don't think it is too hard to believe that Karma isn't aware of Amy's feelings until now. She has always come across someone who lives in her on little bubble and anything that tries that penetrate her perfect bubble she rationalizes it away. It is also why she comes up with all these schemes without really considering the consequences or what could go wrong. I also think she may end up rationalizing what happened in the motel to try to fit within her bubble.

 

Amy's growing determination in the episode was a nice transition. I think it was like she said a couple of episode ago, keeping this in was killing her. She needs to let these feelings out and this was her chance so she took it. The question now will be how hard will she pursue this going forward?

 

Also found myself feeling relieved that both actresses are legal age because well damn.

 

Liked that Liam was so nervous. Sure guys may say it is their fantasy but it should be really something done spontaneously. Scheduling it ahead of time can only lead to overthinking. Nice seeing Tommy again.

 

Shane and Lauren were good in the ep. They really are the same in a lot of ways. I like they acknowledge it.

[tricksterson]

Message to Amy:  Find someone else.  Karma is a self involved bitch.  Maybe that nice Jasmine girl.  She's pretty and seems to have her head on straight, so to speak.

[aradia22]

 

I have not liked him since he outed the girls (it's wrong to do anyway, but they kept telling him it wasn't even true, making it even worse).

I like him because they give him a lot of the jokes, but I agree that his initial choice to "out" them was offputting. I felt the same way (though more intensely) when Glee had the episode where Kurt sang Pink Houses and everyone was like "this isn't you." People should feel free to decide who they are in their own time. You don't get to tell me that I'm not being true to myself, especially in high school when I don't even know who I am yet. That's not being a good friend. 

 

I would like to see more fallout from those moments, and maybe there will be. I think that's where the longevity of the show can be. The initial drama is the question of whether the attraction is mutual. After that's clear one way or the other, what is the fallout? In real life, that is a real thing that has real consequences. I hope the show will do something with that. But of course, you never know with a TV show, if it will live up to its potential or just be crap. So far I'm not bored, though, so I'm enjoying it while I can.

Agreed. This is a piece of it for me. It's difficult with 30 minute episodes but right now I think we're just coasting on 'does Liam like Karma' 'does Amy like Karma' 'does Karma like Amy' and we're not having real development with everything else so the 75% of the episode that's not about that feels a little boring to me. Oliver, engagement party, squircle... I feel like so much of the things we're doing every week is just dropped outside of the relationship stuff. 

[LoneHaranguer]

 

And since she was the first person to "make a move" and also the person literally closest to him physically at that moment, for him to "jump in" and kiss Amy instead of pushing past her to go to Karma, to me, seemed like an attempt at politeness or fairness or something (plus who knows, maybe he does find her hot, who wouldn't?).

I think he started with Amy because he was told by the guys to start with the girl he was least into, but why would he do that when the girl in question is (as far as he knew) a lesbian? IDK, maybe he's watched too many pornos. But, there really was no reason he had to jump into the driver's seat, and if he did, the whole point of the threesome was for him and Karma to get together without him feeling like it was behind Amy's back. I agree that pushing past Amy would have been rude, but if that meant he had to wait a moment for her to step back and implicitly okay him going to Karma, so be it. And if Amy didn't do that, and the threesome fell apart, he'd know he was right about not wanting to get in the way of whatever relationship the girls have.

[bravelittletoaster]

I think he started with Amy because he was told by the guys to start with the girl he was least into, but why would he do that when the girl in question is (as far as he knew) a lesbian?

 

Well, as far as he knows they're both lesbians. 

I really loved this episode and the threesome scenes in particular, but I doubt they stand up to a ton of logic.  

[McKay]

I really don't think Karma is coming off as anything but oblivious.  I was a lesbian teenager.  My best friend in high school was clearly into me - like, overt sexual remarks, she was actually my first kiss, etc - but I genuinely never thought she meant it beyond goofing around. 

 

Granted, I'm a hundred times more oblivious than the average person (just ask Mrs. McKay how long it took me to realize her constantly asking me out meant she wanted to date me.  Literally more than a year.) but I do think Karma is being played as totally oblivious and isn't intended to be uncaring or a "user" at all.  I think if she had ANY idea what she was doing was hurting Amy, she'd back off immediately. 

 

And I could be wildly projecting there (and I'm mildly biased because I relate so strongly to her obliviousness, and she looks so much like a close friend of mine from high school who's still one of my best friends, every time I see her I'm just hit with a total nostalgia-fondness wave), but I don't find it outside the realm of possibility at all.  And it helps that I feel like that's how Katie is playing it. 

 

I for one am thrilled to see gay teens represented as popular and liked in pop culture.  That attitude of acceptance can and will bleed into everyday life. 

 

My only complaint with the show is Lauren's existence.  I don't find her interesting or funny as a foil for anyone; she just annoys me endlessly.  I like that they aren't going the easy route of having the mean girl be homophobic, and I like that she isn't just mean because she's a bitch; she clearly has a lot going on in her life that's making her unhappy.  But she just feels like a useless distraction from the main characters at this point.  Maybe I'll lighten up a bit if the show is renewed, but my hopes aren't particularly high at the moment, and I'm afraid we're going to be dangling on a Karma/Amy cliff forever, and I'll be wishing we'd gotten more time with them developing as characters instead of side plots with an otherwise generic blonde bitch.

[bravelittletoaster]

Yeah I don't actually find Karma to be even especially obtuse.  I don't think it's odd that a straight girl [as she's always thought of herself] is missing signals that her presumed straight friend is into her.  More than we see what we want to see, we see what we expect to see.  Quite literally--it's a well noted phenomenon. By the same token we often do not see what we do not expect to see.  Karma does not expect her straight friend to be in love with her, ergo she doesn't see it.  Considering many people out there take forever to realize that they themselves are gay because they're not expecting to see that , I can't be anything but generous with Karma in that regard.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Well, as far as he knows they're both lesbians.

As far as he knows, Karma is bi-curious. Amy hasn't shown the same interest and went straight for Karma when she wanted to get things rolling, ignoring him completely. I think I'm just frustrated that the writers were so ham-handed in ending what had been such a well written and acted scene.

[Cranberry]

I can forgive it because Liam was clearly overwhelmed and nervous, and I think he took that guy's advice about kissing the girl he was least into first instead of actually reading the situation and acting appropriately. It would have been nice if the girls and Liam had discussed ground rules first, but that would probably have tipped Amy's hand regarding her feelings for Karma, and the writers weren't quite ready to go there yet.

[superman1204]

 

Today. 1:53 pm

 

I can forgive it because Liam was clearly overwhelmed and nervous, and I think he took that guy's advice about kissing the girl he was least into first instead of actually reading the situation and acting appropriately.

I may be misreading the character, but am I the only person who thinks Liam screwed up the threesome because he assumed that Amy was into him, since every girl her interacts with he is just trying to have sex with.  At the party during the pilot, Liam basically told a girl to leave because she might want more than just sex with him, the protest he was involved with was basically foreplay with that girl Karma was jealous of, at the bar with Shane he was trying to screw anything that didn't have a penis, and all his scenes with Karma are them trying to get into each others pants.  I'm not trying to say the character is a terrible person, but I can't remember one scene with him and a female character that didn't involve dating/sex.  The writers have given him some character development but at the same time so much of what he does is motivated by his hookup with girls, it seems to make sense.

Edited June 3, 2014 by superman1204