S13.E01/E02: Why Do We Have to Move?/Where's the Flyin' Lion

[BitterApple]

My late father was VP of a large engineering firm and he entertained clients, local politicos and other assorted businesspeople all the time. I don't think the poster was implying anything sexist. Sometimes it just comes with the gig. I'm assuming Jen's celebrity is a huge draw in attracting potential donors, so she probably has to make the requisite appearances at fundraisers and cocktail parties.

[BW Manilowe]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

My late father was VP of a large engineering firm and he entertained clients, local politicos and other assorted businesspeople all the time. I don't think the poster was implying anything sexist. Sometimes it just comes with the gig. I'm assuming Jen's celebrity is a huge draw in attracting potential donors, so she probably has to make the requisite appearances at fundraisers and cocktail parties.

Speaking of Jen’s celebrity being a huge draw in attracting potential donors for hospital fundraisers, I wonder how many people recognized Bill at the trade show when he was promoting the dog pee pads (which may have been in a different ep, so I apologize if it was; the remark about Jen’s celebrity was a perfect lead into it that I couldn’t resist)?

The people talking to Bill about the pee pads probably had to wonder why they were being filmed, unless they thought it was for the local news or something. Or did the promoters/sponsors of the event use Bill’s participation in their promotion of it (“Come to the event & meet Bill Klein from TV’s/TLC’s The Little Couple”)?

[readheaded]

3 hours ago, CousinAmy said:

What kind of entertaining would a doctor with an advanced degree and high position in a hospital have to do? Would you ask this about a male doctor?

Yes, I would definitely ask it about a male doctor or anyone, doctor or not, with a high position in a hospital.  Hospitals can be political places and have big roles in the philanthropic landscape of a community.  In Houston, she hosted the mayor at the hospital to show him the program she worked on and request continued funding.  Depending on St. Petersburg's culture, there may be an expectation that those kinds of meetings will be done while entertaining.

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

My late father was VP of a large engineering firm and he entertained clients, local politicos and other assorted businesspeople all the time. I don't think the poster was implying anything sexist. Sometimes it just comes with the gig. I'm assuming Jen's celebrity is a huge draw in attracting potential donors, so she probably has to make the requisite appearances at fundraisers and cocktail parties.

Yes, this exactly.  Thank you for not assuming that I was being sexist.  I worked for some of the leadership at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore and have seen the entertaining that goes on and is expected.  

Edited October 26, 2018 by readheaded

[Foghorn Leghorn]

And Jen did host something for the Texas hospital at their home before.  She loves the best and loves to show it off!  That is my opinion of why the show is still on...Jen is very insecure and needs/thrives on a LOT of attention, she just beams in the TH’s when Bill complements her ad nauseum!  “My wife this, my wife that” and so on.   

[Libby]

When they first adopted the kids, it was really painful to watch. Jen was very competitive about it and wanted the kids to love her best. When she saw that it wasn't going to happen with Will, she was damned and determined that Zoey was going to favor her. That didn't happen either.

Now she seems calmer about the whole thing. The kids love Bill more, but they love her too. She now seems willing to accept that.

Bill relates better to kids. Of course they will love him more. However, he isn't a bit better parent than her. Neither of them are very good at parenting. They are very loving and offer a very supportive home, but they really don't know how to raise kids properly.

Jen now seems content to get her affirmation from her husband and mother to feed her insecurities. She's not forcing it from her kids anymore.

[SMama]

7 minutes ago, Libby said:

 

Now she seems calmer about the whole thing. The kids love Bill more, but they love her too. She now seems willing to accept that.

I don’t think it is about loving one parent more than the other. After a decade plus as a CPS SW I was surprised to find out that when dealing with IA the children who form an attachment (love you may say) mainly to one parent fare better in the long run. Those who are equally attached to both parents don’t do so well. Yeah, beats me.

SGirl LOVES SBaba, but I am a SAHM, when she is in distress she comes to me. When she got her vaccinations (and still for anything involving needles) she sat on my lap. When she had five stitches on her chin she clung to me. It hurts my husband a little that I get “huggie wuggies” (TM SGirl) at night, and he gets hugs and a kisses. Still she looks up to her father, and is apppropriately affectionate with him. It’s just a matter that I am the person who meets most of her daily needs. If for some reason I’m gone (volunteer work) SGirl acts as though she has not seen me in a year. But she is used to my husbands long work hours. 

It is not unreasonable to want your child to love you, and to need you. Regardless of how busy TLC portrays Bill, he spends a lot of time at home with the kids (yes I know they have a nanny). Also, this is the narrative TLC has chosen. 

[readheaded]

2 minutes ago, SMama said:

I don’t think it is about loving one parent more than the other. After a decade plus as a CPS SW I was surprised to find out that when dealing with IA the children who form an attachment (love you may say) mainly to one parent fare better in the long run. Those who are equally attached to both parents don’t do so well. Yeah, beats me.

SGirl LOVES SBaba, but I am a SAHM, when she is in distress she comes to me. When she got her vaccinations (and still for anything involving needles) she sat on my lap. When she had five stitches on her chin she clung to me. It hurts my husband a little that I get “huggie wuggies” (TM SGirl) at night, and he gets hugs and a kisses. Still she looks up to her father, and is apppropriately affectionate with him. It’s just a matter that I am the person who meets most of her daily needs. If for some reason I’m gone (volunteer work) SGirl acts as though she has not seen me in a year. But she is used to my husbands long work hours. 

It is not unreasonable to want your child to love you, and to need you. Regardless of how busy TLC portrays Bill, he spends a lot of time at home with the kids (yes I know they have a nanny). Also, this is the narrative TLC has chosen. 

Not to mention that kids "love" one parent more than the other at different times in their development.  Kids do well to take what they need from each parent when they need it.

[SMama]

1 hour ago, readheaded said:

Not to mention that kids "love" one parent more than the other at different times in their development.  Kids do well to take what they need from each parent when they need it.

Thank you! Also, with post institutionalized children the longer they are in care the longer it’s going to get them to get the concept of family. Will was three years old and Zoey one (?). They show affection, they talk about cousins, and grandparents. But to internalize it is a different matter. SGirl still needs to be reassured that Forever Mamas and Babas never leave their children. She has an Apple Watch series three simply to sooth her anxiety. Because if she does not see me the second she reaches the gate she panics. Now she can track us and now exactly where we are.

Sorry to be so annoyingly long winded. But post institutionalized children are not the garden variety children. We still struggle with some concepts. We only see what TLC wants is to see. I will say that I was happy to learn there were no cameras and no other persons for a period of time after the children arrived home. That bonding time is critical, but parents sometimes give in under pressure from eager grandparents and other relatives.

OK, time for me to shut up. 

[readheaded]

10 minutes ago, SMama said:

Thank you! Also, with post institutionalized children the longer they are in care the longer it’s going to get them to get the concept of family. Will was three years old and Zoey one (?). They show affection, they talk about cousins, and grandparents. But to internalize it is a different matter. SGirl still needs to be reassured that Forever Mamas and Babas never leave their children. She has an Apple Watch series three simply to sooth her anxiety. Because if she does not see me the second she reaches the gate she panics. Now she can track us and now exactly where we are.

Sorry to be so annoyingly long winded. But post institutionalized children are not the garden variety children. We still struggle with some concepts. We only see what TLC wants is to see. I will say that I was happy to learn there were no cameras and no other persons for a period of time after the children arrived home. That bonding time is critical, but parents sometimes give in under pressure from eager grandparents and other relatives.

OK, time for me to shut up. 

I can't speak for anyone else, but you're not annoying me!  :) 

[BitterApple]

7 hours ago, SMama said:

I don’t think it is about loving one parent more than the other. After a decade plus as a CPS SW I was surprised to find out that when dealing with IA the children who form an attachment (love you may say) mainly to one parent fare better in the long run. Those who are equally attached to both parents don’t do so well. Yeah, beats 

That's very intetesting. Any theories as to why?

I can see things flipping in Jen's favor when the kids get older. Bill's buffoonery will probably embarrass them as teenagers, while Jen being a prestigious doctor-mom will give them tons of bragging material, not to mention tons of connections when it comes to things like internships, letters of recommendation and job hook-ups. 

Edited October 27, 2018 by BitterApple

[SMama]

In terms of theory, it seems to be anecdotal/observational over the past two decades. It makes sense to me when you think about attachment. Let’s take Will as an example, and because he gets flogged and ridiculed so often. He lost his birth family, then was in an orphanage where he was obviously not cared for, second loss when he moved to New Day. Then upon adoption, he experienced a third loss. Thus he is on his fourth family.

While Will has no explicit memory of these events, he does have implicit memories. And no matter how loved he was at New Day (hope I’m getting the name right) it was still a placement. There was no one person who was his constant caretaker. It’s primal to be distrustful after having the life he lived until adoption. It may be that bonding to one adult first, decreases the “parent shopping” behavior many post institutionalized children exhibit. Baby steps. I could also be completely wrong ?.

Full disclosure, SGirl was equally comfortable with us in China. After consulting with the International Adoption Cilinic and some amazing colleagues we realized that the experts were right. Upon coming home she engaged on “parent shopping” and it scared the hell out of us. One of the reasons we decided I would be a SAHM, to provide that consistency and security. It’s been rough since I earned far more than my husband. But he realized with my experience with foster children I was better suited for the job. And yes it is a full time job.

I disagree with many of Bill’s and Jen’s parenting, but the truth is that they are in a no win situation. If they lay down the law people are going to excoriate them for being insensitive assholes. If they are soft those kids will grow up to be serial killers.

The thing is they are dealing with two children with a myriad of physical, medical and psychological isssues. We initially planned to return to China to adopt a son. Reality is that it would be unfair to SGirl and to a hypothetical SBoy, she has serious emotional scars from the sixteen months she spent in a SWI. There’s only one of me and I know my limitations. Sadly, Bill and Jen made a rookie mistake. There’s plenty of love to go around. But sometimes love is not enough. At least they have the financial resources to provide for their children’s basic, medical, and psychological needs for as long as is necessary.

Edited October 27, 2018 by SMama

[BW Manilowe]

14 hours ago, SMama said:

Thank you! Also, with post institutionalized children the longer they are in care the longer it’s going to get them to get the concept of family. Will was three years old and Zoey one (?). They show affection, they talk about cousins, and grandparents. But to internalize it is a different matter. SGirl still needs to be reassured that Forever Mamas and Babas never leave their children. She has an Apple Watch series three simply to sooth her anxiety. Because if she does not see me the second she reaches the gate she panics. Now she can track us and now exactly where we are.

Sorry to be so annoyingly long winded. But post institutionalized children are not the garden variety children. We still struggle with some concepts. We only see what TLC wants is to see. I will say that I was happy to learn there were no cameras and no other persons for a period of time after the children arrived home. That bonding time is critical, but parents sometimes give in under pressure from eager grandparents and other relatives.

OK, time for me to shut up. 

I’m pretty sure Zoey was 2 when they adopted her. I think they said they’d just barely missed getting (custody of) her in time for her birthday. I’m positive Zoey was 2 when they got her, but it may have been Will whose birthday they barely missed in regards to when they got custody of 1 of the kids. I remember them saying they barely missed having 1 of the kids in the family in time for their birthday though.

[Absolom]

Zoey was 2 and Will was three-ish when they were adopted.  It was probably Zoey's birthday they missed.  She was born and adopted in October.  

[SMama]

Thank you, I was not sure about Zoey’s age upon adoption.

[CousinAmy]

Wasn't Zoey's adoption process started before Will's?  But his came through faster. I think they were expecting to get her at a younger age, but things got switched. 

On 10/26/2018 at 10:16 PM, SMama said:

In terms of theory, it seems to be anecdotal/observational over the past two decades. It makes sense to me when you think about attachment. Let’s take Will as an example, and because he gets flogged and ridiculed so often. He lost his birth family, then was in an orphanage where he was obviously not cared for, second loss when he moved to New Day. Then upon adoption, he experienced a third loss. Thus he is on his fourth family.

While Will has no explicit memory of these events, he does have implicit memories. And no matter how loved he was at New Day (hope I’m getting the name right) it was still a placement. There was no one person who was his constant caretaker. It’s primal to be distrustful after having the life he lived until adoption. It may be that bonding to one adult first, decreases the “parent shopping” behavior many post institutionalized children exhibit. Baby steps. I could also be completely wrong ?.

Full disclosure, SGirl was equally comfortable with us in China. After consulting with the International Adoption Cilinic and some amazing colleagues we realized that the experts were right. Upon coming home she engaged on “parent shopping” and it scared the hell out of us. One of the reasons we decided I would be a SAHM, to provide that consistency and security. It’s been rough since I earned far more than my husband. But he realized with my experience with foster children I was better suited for the job. And yes it is a full time 

The thing is they are dealing with two children with a myriad of physical, medical and psychological isssues. We initially planned to return to China to adopt a son. Reality is that it would be unfair to SGirl and to a hypothetical SBoy, she has serious emotional scars from the sixteen months she spent in a SWI. There’s only one of me and I know my limitations. Sadly, Bill and Jen made a rookie mistake. There’s plenty of love to go around. But sometimes love is not enough. At least they have the financial resources to provide for their children’s basic, medical, and psychological needs for as long as is necessary.

I can't remember if you have said how old SGirl is. Do you mind saying? I will understand if you don't want to. 

[SMama]

Not a problem, SGirl is eleven.  And you are correct, they started Zoey’s process before Will’s. I completely understand pining for a child. We had a bio son but were equally eager to get our brown eyed girl home. We would not have sought a second adoption while waiting for the first. Parenting is not all unicorns, puppies, and rainbows. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by SMama

[BW Manilowe]

On 10/28/2018 at 9:50 PM, CousinAmy said:

Wasn't Zoey's adoption process started before Will's?  But his came through faster. I think they were expecting to get her at a younger age, but things got switched. 

I can't remember if you have said how old SGirl is. Do you mind saying? I will understand if you don't want to. 

No. They had already started the process for Will, including the home study part, then they (Jen) got a phone call from 1 of the agencies they’d signed up to adopt through about possibly adopting a little dwarf girl born in India who became Zoey. Jen initially felt it’d be too much, but they also felt they couldn’t leave her, so they began the process with her simultaneously with Will. But Will came home first. And since they’d already had the home study during Will’s adoption they didn’t have to repeat it for Zoey, Jen said.