S04.E10: Winner

[Dianaofthehunt]

"the shoplifter," said the attorney.

How that ground my gears. I know Jimmy's speech to Christie wasn't really about her, but it pointed up how the shining-faced teachers' pets, the "Ken Wins" types always finish first. It's not what you know, it's who you know. 

Why did Lalo have to execute (heh) that stupid and implausible leap into the drop ceiling, when he could have merely stood there while wire-cash guy was on the phone, then plugged him? I found that bit ridiculous. 

Very slippin' of Jimmy to gloat about the success of his speech while still on the premises! And within earshot of the attorney who gives him the happy heads-up, no less.

I take heart that so many posters here think his breakdown (ha!) in the dead Esteem was a culmination of all the shit raining down on him, and not a delayed reaction to Chuck's death. I would hate to think these excellent writers would choose that smarmy, well-worn path.

[Ellaria]

As usual, the acting was incredible. Unlike many shows, BCS doesn't feel the need to rely only on broad, emotional scenes for impact. The small, quiet ones work just as well and that's a testament to this cast. Bob Odenkirk really delivered in every scene in this episode - from his little smiles to Kim to the rant to his scholarship candidate and then the full-on breakdown in the car. 

Having said that, I am going to be a dissenter and say that I was a bit disappointed in this episode. Way, way too much time was spent with the search for Werner. Yes, I understand that Werner served his purpose primarily in Mike's story line to gradually become "Gus' man." However, it was a long run for a short slide. IMO, the entire meth lab story line was tedious. It was just a matter of which engineer was going to go rogue and doom the completion of the project (Kai or Werner). I'm curious to see how this gets addressed next season.

I was also sorry that we didn't see more of Nacho, both last night and in the season has a whole. His story line seemed to stall out in the last third of the season. 

Perhaps this was just me but I was distracted by Jimmy and Kim's activity early in the episode: crying at the grave, the library dedication, the scholarship committee. I was confused on the timeline (unnecessarily) and kept asking myself questions like "where did he get $23,000." Anyway, I spent too much time on the details and didn't step back to look at the broader plot. 

However, I loved how the groundwork was laid for his transformation into Saul and how he will carry his disrespect for the legal community with him. Jimmy/Saul wants to practice law but not uphold the law.

All in all, this is a wonderful show and I dread the long wait before we see Jimmy, Kim, Mike and Nacho again.

[MsSilverSpecs]

The scene where Mike killed Werner got me. Inevitably, I knew it would happen but didn't expect to get that emotional about it. I know a show is great when it can stir up my emotions that way.

Kim's face at the end was that of pure disgust. I don't know why she was surprised though, all I thought was "well duh!"

[ShadowFacts]

Two things kind of interfered with my enjoyment of this episode, which was still pretty good.  I thought the insertion of Lalo was unnecessary, as mentioned above.  Another time next season would have been fine to showcase that he's a clever psycho, he didn't add anything here.  An innocent person gets murdered, no me gusta.   I also did not buy Werner accepting his end so calmly, going to look at the stars.  I did not want him to go that gently into that goodnight.  They spent a lot of time on his character the last few episodes, and then just a sheep to slaughter.  Mike didn't even seem that conflicted, more just resigned.  It didn't work for me. 

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

"the shoplifter," said the attorney.

How that ground my gears. I know Jimmy's speech to Christie wasn't really about her, but it pointed up how the shining-faced teachers' pets, the "Ken Wins" types always finish first. It's not what you know, it's who you know. 

Why did Lalo have to execute (heh) that stupid and implausible leap into the drop ceiling, when he could have merely stood there while wire-cash guy was on the phone, then plugged him? I found that bit ridiculous. 

Very slippin' of Jimmy to gloat about the success of his speech while still on the premises! And within earshot of the attorney who gives him the happy heads-up, no less.

I take heart that so many posters here think his breakdown (ha!) in the dead Esteem was a culmination of all the shit raining down on him, and not a delayed reaction to Chuck's death. I would hate to think these excellent writers would choose that smarmy, well-worn path.

That's exactly what ground Jimmy's gears -- ironically right in the heart of Chuck's kingdom, the very brother who was always the mirror reflecting Slippin' Jimmy's transgressions right back at him.  Chuck's dead and yet Jimmy realizes, no matter how hard he plays it or how much he wishes it will be so, many things he wants to be dead and buried will live on. 

[Bryce Lynch]

16 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

The look on her face at the end, I said to myself, "Serves you right!"  She had no problem being Bonnie to his Clyde all this time, so now she knows how the other marks felt after they'd been hoodwinked.  I hope we see very little of her next season, and even though I like Howard, I'm fine if he's gone too.   

Oh Werner, that was painful to watch.  However, that final death shot was beautiful.  

The most disappointing thing about this episode was no Nacho.  I hate being left hanging until next season to find out what happened to him and his father.

Shout out to Ernesto!

I still like Kim and hope for the best for her.  But, I've seen that stunned, "Not my Jimmy!" face a few times now, and she keeps getting back in the mud with him.  It seems like the con artist in Saul is what she is most attracted to.   The writers have given us a lot of head fakes on Kim's future with Jimmy, so I have no idea where it will end up.  But, I lean towards her staying with him and going down in flames.  

[MisterBluxom]

8 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

.....................

Why did Lalo have to execute (heh) that stupid and implausible leap into the drop ceiling, when he could have merely stood there while wire-cash guy was on the phone, then plugged him? I found that bit ridiculous. 

.....................

 

Excellent Question!  The answer escapes me.  The answer would seem to defy any rational explanation. It made no sense. At least not to me. But my track record has been terrible lately.

Edited October 9, 2018 by MissBluxom

[benteen]

Yeah, I don't know why they placed Nacho's storyline in a holding pattern during the back half of the season.  It's the most suspenseful storyline on the show (last year's pill swap sequence was riveting) and Nacho's fate is truly up in the air.  I would assume we'll be getting big things with it next season.

Too much time was spent on the lab and I think even Gus's storyline suffered this season.  As one critic noted, at this point in the timeline, he's stuck in a state of perpetual shadowy masterminding. 

Mike has some good stuff this season, no doubt about it.  But I admit not liking the Mike character as much as I used to.  Mike knows EVERYTHING, which makes it more and more implausible the manner of his fate in Breaking Bad.

Edited October 9, 2018 by benteen

[ahmerali]

1 minute ago, MissBluxom said:

Excellent Question!  The answer escapes me.  The answer would seem to defy any rational explanation. It made no sense. At least not to me. But my track record has been terrible lately.

The teller windows in places where there is money stored behind the counter is generally quite bulletproof.

25 minutes ago, 100Proof said:

While so, I would say those things were done then more or less as cutesy bits for fans and apropos to nothing really. "Oh look, she's wearing the exact same dress she did in the very first episode!"  ;-)

I disagree. Most of the Easter Eggs and callbacks and much more subtle, and in the case of BCS, actually make sense.

I liked the Sopranos, I liked the Wire. Excellent storytelling in both. The Sopranos wasn't a bad show just because they didn't play much harder with the episode-to-episode continuity or anything like that, it was just different. And that's fine.

But I love BB and BCS. It's a whole different level of storytelling. Not everyone wants to dissect every little thing, many just want to see the story unfold. That's awesome! I like watching for these little things, and it seems other do too, and that's awesome as well. That's why there's chocolate and vanilla.

[Bryce Lynch]

17 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

"the shoplifter," said the attorney.

How that ground my gears. I know Jimmy's speech to Christie wasn't really about her, but it pointed up how the shining-faced teachers' pets, the "Ken Wins" types always finish first. It's not what you know, it's who you know. 

Why did Lalo have to execute (heh) that stupid and implausible leap into the drop ceiling, when he could have merely stood there while wire-cash guy was on the phone, then plugged him? I found that bit ridiculous. 

Very slippin' of Jimmy to gloat about the success of his speech while still on the premises! And within earshot of the attorney who gives him the happy heads-up, no less.

I take heart that so many posters here think his breakdown (ha!) in the dead Esteem was a culmination of all the shit raining down on him, and not a delayed reaction to Chuck's death. I would hate to think these excellent writers would choose that smarmy, well-worn path.

I don't really blame the attorney.  She had in mind giving the scholarship to an outstanding student, of good character.  I liked Jimmy's perspective, too, but I understood hers.  BTW, the whole thing reminded be a bit of "The Van Buren Boys" episode of Seinfeld, when George wanted to give Susan's Memorial scholarship to an underachieving liar, like himself.  

I don't think most excellent students are "KEN WINS" types.  He reminded be me more of a more obnoxious version of Jimmy.  

I think Fred the wire-cash guy was behind bullet proof glass.  I don't think Lalo leaped into the drop ceiling, I think he probably climbed on something to get there.  BTW, Fred got what he deserved for breaking customer privacy protocol with Mike. :)

9 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Excellent Question!  The answer escapes me.  The answer would seem to defy any rational explanation. It made no sense. At least not to me. But my track record has been terrible lately.

 

Bullet proof glass.  

Edited October 9, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[100Proof]

Somehow I can't get with these particular characters and it's because of the names.... 'Nacho'...'Taco'.  All I keep thinking of when I see those characters are bags of Doritos!

Edited October 9, 2018 by 100Proof

[MisterBluxom]

44 minutes ago, 100Proof said:

I'll gladly pile on, lol.  Always thought Kim has one of them 'severe' looking faces. I never saw her as a sexual being whatsoever and viewed her and Jimmy being more or less just buddies as opposed to lovers

There is a saying that the brain is the most sexual of all our organs but I have found that's just not true.  In my experience, it's very rare to consider a lady to be sexually appealing because of intellectual attributes. 

But for some reason, I find that Kim's intellect makes her highly sexually desirable. Of course that's just my opinion. But I find that much of Kim's desirability is due to her intellect and personality. Hardly any of the reason has to do with her physical attributes.

In no way is Kim unattractive.  But she does not "look" like the kind of female most men would find highly attractive. I'm having a hard time explaining this. I will try to just sum it up in the following sentence.  I find Kim to be highly sexually attractive and the reason is almost entirely due to her intellect and personality AWA other non-physical attributes. I would love to have Kim for my wife and live the rest of my life with her. She would make a great partner for almost any kind of venture.

Edited October 9, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, 100Proof said:

Somehow I can't get with these particular characters and it's because of the names.... 'Nacho'...'Taco'.  All I keep thinking of when I see those characters are bags of Doritos!

It's Tuco not Taco.  Tuco, Nacho, Tio, Lalo, Gonzo.  No-Doze and Krazy-8 seem like outsiders with their nicknames.  I guess nobody has the balls to call the Cousins by nicknames. :)

[100Proof]

5 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't think Lalo leaped into the drop ceiling, I think he probably climbed on something to get there. 

I'm having a hard time believing someone could've hoisted themselves up there so quickly and so silently....and up through one panel nonetheless! That whole flipping area of hung ceiling would've came crashing down from the weight of a person trying to hoist themselves up into it, lol

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I'd like to add to what you say.  I find that it's very rare I find a lady to be highly sexual or "hot" if you prefer because of intellectual attributes.  What I'm trying to say is that there is a saying that the brain is the most sexual of all our organs and I have found that's just not at all true.

But for some reason, Kim's brain power (which is through the roof high) seems to make her a very sexually desirable woman to me. Of course that is just my opinion. But I find Kim to be extremely desirable and much of the reason is about her intellect and her personality. Hardly any of the cause has much to do with her physical attributes.

Kim is not ugly or homely or repulsive in any way. But she does not "look" like the kind of female most men would find highly sexually stimulating. I'm having a hard time making this point. I will try and just sum it up in one sentence. Hard to explain why but I find Kim to be highly sexually attractive and the reason is almost entirely due to her intellect and personality and other non-physical attributes. I would love to marry Kim.

A lot of men on reddit find Kim extremely physically attractive.  I think she is pretty, but not stunning.  

1 minute ago, 100Proof said:

I'm having a hard time believing someone could've hoisted themselves up there so quickly and so silently....and up through one panel nonetheless! That whole flipping area of hung ceiling would've came crashing down from the weight of a person trying to hoist themselves up into it, lol

Well, it was definitely a flaw in the security plan for the store.  

[ShadowFacts]

11 minutes ago, benteen said:

Mike has some good stuff this season, no doubt about it.  But I admit not liking the Mike character as much as I used to.  Mike knows EVERYTHING, which makes it more and more implausible the manner of his fate in Breaking Bad.

I think he showed some vulnerability in his assessment of Werner, and Lalo did nearly catch up with Werner even after Mike gummed up the parking gate.  Maybe he developed more careful methods in the BrBa time, but he also sort of underestimated Walt.  He's never been infallible.  He failed to anticipate the Salamancas would behave threateningly toward Kaylee, or that a good samaritan would get killed. 

[100Proof]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It's Tuco not Taco.  Tuco, Nacho, Tio, Lalo, Gonzo.  No-Doze and Krazy-8 seem like outsiders with their nicknames.  I guess nobody has the balls to call the Cousins by nicknames. :)

Tuco, Taco....all I keep seeing is two legged bags of Doritos walking around shooting people, lol

[Bryce Lynch]

5 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think he showed some vulnerability in his assessment of Werner, and Lalo did nearly catch up with Werner even after Mike gummed up the parking gate.  Maybe he developed more careful methods in the BrBa time, but he also sort of underestimated Walt.  He's never been infallible.  He failed to anticipate the Salamancas would behave threateningly toward Kaylee, or that a good samaritan would get killed. 

Mike was never perfect on BB, as you point out.  Also, I think Lalo is sort of a super villain, at or maybe even above Mike's skill level.  He is as smart as any 4 other Salamancas combined, which means he has at least above average intelligence. :)  

He is clearly a very, formidable foe.  I have to think he has figured out what Gus is up to, or at least has a very good idea, based upon his brief talk with Werner.  

[100Proof]

24 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

But for some reason, I find that Kim's intellect makes her highly sexually desirable. Of course that's just my opinion. But I find that much of Kim's desirability is due to her intellect and personality. Hardly any of the reason has to do with her physical attributes.

In no way is Kim unattractive.  But she does not "look" like the kind of female most men would find highly attractive.

 

Personality will win over 'first impression' looks, imo.  That being said, however the $%#@ my brain is wired up, I'm not attracted to a so called severe looking facial features. Kim is a very attractive women, just not my particular cup of tea tho'. Not that I care for such things anymore at my age, lol.

21 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

A lot of men on reddit find Kim extremely physically attractive.

Of course. Men'll stick it anywhere though. I used to see the crack whores hanging about around queens plaza, nyc back in the day. They looked like holocaust victims only a 100 times worse. I once asked my cop friend who in their right mind would have sex with them. Obvious answer yeah? lol

Edited October 9, 2018 by 100Proof

[Eulipian 5k]

The cold open was a revelation. I never knew Chuck would/did do so much for his younger brother.

• Vouched for him before the bar. (something he should have mentioned last week at the Board; it's certainly in the files they had. ).
• Brought home his sloshed younger brother
• put him to bed, took off his shoes, and stayed with him

We gave Jimmy a lot of points when he did the same for Space Blanket Chuck. Back then I saw Chuck as an ungrateful wretch not knowing he had done the same for Jimmy. The season started with Chuck's burial but the finale brought to life who he was for Jimmy. Plus: Chekov's Letter returns!
Saul really began to distance himself from Kim; thinking about the exploding files con, (WTF!), while questioning the effectiveness of Kim's long con. She now knows there's no place for her in the BrBa days to come.

BTW:

Ernie, don't let your Mom buy your clothes, she means well, but ... just don't.

[MisterBluxom]

33 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't really blame the attorney.  She had in mind giving the scholarship to an outstanding student, of good character.  I liked Jimmy's perspective, too, but I understood hers.  BTW, the whole thing reminded be a bit of "The Van Buren Boys" episode of Seinfeld, when George wanted to give Susan's Memorial scholarship to an underachieving liar, like himself.  

I don't think most excellent students are "KEN WINS" types.  He reminded be me more of a more obnoxious version of Jimmy.  

I think Fred the wire-cash guy was behind bullet proof glass.  I don't think Lalo leaped into the drop ceiling, I think he probably climbed on something to get there.  BTW, Fred got what he deserved for breaking customer privacy protocol with Mike. :)

Bullet proof glass.  

 

I can understand why you would say that.  But if I was the clerk, I might wonder whether:

1) what would I do if a customer came into the store and the gunman told me to give him the tape or he would shoot my customer.

2) the glass may not have been as truly "bullet-proof" as I have been told. After all, there are always certain kinds of guns and bullets that can defeat "bullet proof" glass. 

It might just be safer to give him the tape he wanted. After all, how many times have you heard the police say, "When someone has a gun,  don't try to be a hero and just do what they tell you"?

Edited October 9, 2018 by MissBluxom

[scenario]

1 minute ago, MissBluxom said:

I can understand why you would say that.  But if I was the clerk, I might wonder whether:

1) what would I do if a customer came into the store and the gunman told me to give him the tape or he would shoot my customer.

2) the glass may not have been as truly "bullet-proof" as I have been told. After all, there are always certain kinds of guns and bullets that can defeat "bullet proof" glass. 

It might just be safer to give him the tape he wanted. After all, how many times have you heard the police say, "When someone has a gun,  don't try to be a hero and just do what they tell you"?

 

When someone has a gun, just do what they say and

He would probably fall down under the counter where the thicker armor is and push the panic button which calls the police. Any place that handles large sums of cash has some built in security. 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, MissBluxom said:

I can understand why you would say that.  But if I was the clerk, I might wonder whether:

1) what would I do if a customer came into the store and the gunman told me to give him the tape or he would shoot my customer.

2) the glass may not have been as truly "bullet-proof" as I have been told. After all, there are always certain kinds of guns and bullets that can defeat "bullet proof" glass. 

It might just be safer to give him the tape he wanted. After all, how many times have you heard the police say, "When someone has a gun,  don't try to be a hero and just do what they tell you"?

 

When someone has a gun, just do what they say and

But, Lalo never pulled the gun until he got behind the bullet proof glass.  If he did, Fred might have called the police.  Then if Lalo couldn't get behind the glass he would have been screwed as he would have been on the security tape.  The Salamancas would have needed to rig up a huge magnet to erase the computer's drive. :)

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, Pat Hoolihan said:

The karaoke sequence seemed surprising to me. I had thought Chuck showed hostility to Jimmy back then -- he didn't think Jimmy was worthy of being a lawyer from the very beginning. So all the kumbaya and caring seemed out of character.

But remember that at this time he was feigning pleasure about Jimmy being a lawyer. He had Howard play the bad guy and tell Jimmy he wouldn't be working at HHM.

 

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

I had no idea what Mike was doing with the gum and the wrappers after he pulled it out of the glovebox.  But honestly I was equal parts fascinated/terrified at that  moment about what Lalo would do next and trying to reconcile the idea the pack of gum Mike had in his glovebox was bright green!  Yes, I got hung up on the idea of how out of place the bright green gum was -- both the flavor it implied and the color not sitting down into the usual color palette of the show.  I blame all of this on my complete and utter Salamanca phobia dominating my central nervous system.

At the beginning I figured he wasn't getting the gum out for fresh breath, but it took a minute for me to figure he was going to jam up the ticket machine. And BTW, what a fantastic shot of the inside of the machine getting all "gummed" up.

 

1 hour ago, 100Proof said:

I didn't take away that Chuck was upstaging Jimmy. I think Jimmy honestly wanted Chuck to have some fun, knew his brother to be a good singer and proudly stepped aside so Chuck could enjoy himself in the moment

 

I disagree. I think Jimmy wanted the two brothers to shine together, to be seen as a team. But Chuck just had to show off his vocals solo. He knew he could sing better than Jimmy, just like he could do so much better than Jimmy.

 

1 hour ago, attica said:

A note of appreciation for a wee technical detail. In the Werner gets shot scene, the camera is at a distance, so we see the muzzle flash an instant before we hear the sound effect of its firing. Because light travels faster than sound. Good physics, there, show!

Yeah, science!

 

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

Two things kind of interfered with my enjoyment of this episode, which was still pretty good.  I thought the insertion of Lalo was unnecessary, as mentioned above.  Another time next season would have been fine to showcase that he's a clever psycho, he didn't add anything here.  An innocent person gets murdered, no me gusta.

A review I read pointed out that once Gus knew that someone -- he figured it had to be a Salamanca, probably Lalo -- had gotten a bit of info from Werner, then Werner definitely had to be offed. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by peeayebee
to correct quote

[MisterBluxom]

25 minutes ago, 100Proof said:

I'm having a hard time believing someone could've hoisted themselves up there so quickly and so silently....and up through one panel nonetheless! That whole flipping area of hung ceiling would've came crashing down from the weight of a person trying to hoist themselves up into it, lol

It was definitely a bizarre scene. Very hard to believe.

[peeayebee]

1 minute ago, Bryce Lynch said:

But, Lalo never pulled the gun until he got behind the bullet proof glass.  If he did, Fred might have called the police.  

Fred was a lot more suspicious by that point, what with Mike's visit earlier, and now this guy, who was a littler pushier than Mike. 

I thought it was a little over the top (heh) for Lalo to climb up thru the ceiling, but then again, Lalo seems to enjoy being flamboyant. (And spellcheck, quit changing Lalo to Lolo!)

[100Proof]

8 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

It was definitely a bizarre scene. Very hard to believe.

Think if Lulu used a belt buckle teleportation device it would've been more believable. (yep, this guy's a real lulu alright)

Edited October 9, 2018 by 100Proof

[scenario]

1 minute ago, MissBluxom said:

It was definitely a bizarre scene. Very hard to believe.

I can believe that a corporation would take the cheap way out and put a security wall up that didn't go all the way to the ceiling. The drop ceiling only had to hold weight for a few feet. It's not that unlikely. 

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, scenario said:

I can believe that a corporation would take the cheap way out and put a security wall up that didn't go all the way to the ceiling. The drop ceiling only had to hold weight for a few feet. It's not that unlikely. 

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Kim makes sense to me if I view her through their talk at the diner last episode following the Lubbock caper.  She was insistent that they only use their "powers" for good and that they would recognize when it was okay to do it.  In her mind, it's acceptable to bend a few corners or pull a little scam for the thrill as long as it's not actually hurting anyone.  Up to that point, Jimmy had been talking about getting his license back to be a criminal attorney in what she assumed was a legitimate sense.  Not as a criminal lawyer.  And nothing they were doing in this episode was really technically wrong.  Networking and making donations to get positive attention are legitimate ways business happens.  She had told him to talk about Chuck to the panel.  That's what she believed was happening.  It was only at the end when Jimmy was gloating to her as if he thought she understood and was in on the scam that she realized he was using his own unresolved issues with Chuck to manipulate the panel into doing his bidding.  And oh by the way, I'm not going to be James M. McGill, Esq., you wouldn't go back into business with anyway.  Meet Saul Goodman, criminal lawyer.

That was excellent.  Thanks for that.  I had forgotten about the "use our powers for good" line.  

 

Just now, Bryce Lynch said:

Well, it was definitely a flaw in the security plan for the store.  

The Space Marines in Aliens had the same problem.  

 

39 minutes ago, attica said:

A note of appreciation for a wee technical detail. In the Werner gets shot scene, the camera is at a distance, so we see the muzzle flash an instant before we hear the sound effect of its firing. Because light travels faster than sound. Good physics, there, show!

Yes, good catch there.  I wasn't really paying attention except for wondering how loud the gunshot would be.  Sorry, I just cannot get worked up over Werner's demise.  I'm more pissed off that the lab construction story arc will extend to next season. 

[Bryce Lynch]

5 minutes ago, scenario said:

I can believe that a corporation would take the cheap way out and put a security wall up that didn't go all the way to the ceiling. The drop ceiling only had to hold weight for a few feet. It's not that unlikely. 

The went for ordinary bank robber security.  They didn't pay extra for the Deluxe Salamanca Proofing Configuration.  I hope Mesa Verde learns from this.  

[Ohwell]

Even if Werner hadn't fucked up, I believe Gus's plan was to have all of the crew sent to Belize once the job was finished.  He couldn't risk having them live and spill the beans, so they had no chance.

[benteen]

As bas as the drop ceiling is, the super magnet in Breaking Bad to me was the most unrealistic moment on either of these shows.

[Tikichick]

Why is it that only Kim's physical attractiveness is being called into question?  Funny how it's not even a consideration for the other characters.

*Correction, not funny.  Not funny in the least.

[Bryce Lynch]

13 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Even if Werner hadn't fucked up, I believe Gus's plan was to have all of the crew sent to Belize once the job was finished.  He couldn't risk having them live and spill the beans, so they had no chance.

That seems to make sense, based upon the fact that he introduced himself by name to Werner and the whole crew knew they were in ABQ, and knew Mike's name.

I don't understand why they didn't keep the location a secret from the men, have and have them only deal with Mike's alter ego, Dave Clark.  I didn't like the writing in this area.  They made it seem like they were taking extreme precautions for secrecy, then they take the boys out to a strip club in ABQ.  

9 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Why is it that only Kim's physical attractiveness is being called into question?  Funny how it's not even a consideration for the other characters.

*Correction, not funny.  Not funny in the least.

I think some have said that she is too good looking for Jimmy.   Howard's looks have discussed as well, as have Nacho's and Lalo's.   I think most of the other characters are pretty average looking, at best.   I think the reasons for Jimmy's attraction to Kim (and for hers toward him) are a valid topic of discussion. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[Ohwell]

Also, I don't remember during Werner's "job interview" with Mike whether Werner and his crew had done illegal jobs before. 

[scenario]

8 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The went for ordinary bank robber security.  They didn't pay extra for the Deluxe Salamanca Proofing Configuration.  I hope Mesa Verde learns from this.  

I always wondered what is the point of a security wall that a reasonably athletic person could get over in 2 seconds. 

The total distance that the the drop ceiling had to support him was about 4 to 6 feet. Keep your weight distributed and you might make it 4 feet before the whole thing collapsed. Especially if the ceiling was there to hide pipes and stuff that you could hang on to.  

Stand up on a chair and push open the ceiling tile. See pipe. Pull yourself up by pipe and crawl the needed 4 or 5 feet. Drop down. It would take a gymnast to do it but it's tv. I'll give them the benefit of doubt. 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, scenario said:

I always wondered what is the point of a security wall that a reasonably athletic person could get over in 2 seconds. 

The total distance that the the drop ceiling had to support him was about 4 to 6 feet. Keep your weight distributed and you might make it 4 feet before the whole thing collapsed. Especially if the ceiling was there to hide pipes and stuff that you could hang on to.  

Stand up on a chair and push open the ceiling tile. See pipe. Pull yourself up by pipe and crawl the needed 4 or 5 feet. Drop down. It would take a gymnast to do it but it's tv. I'll give them the benefit of doubt. 

I think we need a Mythbusters on this.  

[scenario]

10 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

That seems to make sense, based upon the fact that he introduced himself by name to Werner and the whole crew knew they were in ABQ, and knew Mike's name.

I don't understand why they didn't keep the location a secret from the men, have and have them only deal with Mike's alter ego, Dave Clark.  I didn't like the writing in this area.  They made it seem like they were taking extreme precautions for secrecy, then they take the boys out to a strip club in ABQ.  

That's the one point that bothers me. Once Werner saw Gus and knew his name, I figured that he had to kill him. There was no need for either Gus or Mike to use their real names. Mike's name is common enough, no need for last names. 

I don't have that much problem with going to the bar if they took a few hours to drive there and back and no one had a watch. Two hours in any direction covers an awful lot of area. Once the Germans are back home what are they going to say IF they didn't know any names. 

[100Proof]

19 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Why is it that only Kim's physical attractiveness is being called into question?  Funny how it's not even a consideration for the other characters.

*Correction, not funny.  Not funny in the least.

They're all kinda average ugly, especially the guys. Well, Howard's kinda dapper.  Mike looks like he was in a fire (was he??)

Seriously...female was pointed out because I am male and being hetero male it is in the realm and also obeying laws of this universe to make a comment like that strictly from my own pov and on a whim simply as part of making conversation. You, and anyone else, are perfectly fine to make all the comments you want about the physical attractiveness of the men in the series and that would be perfectly ok.... by me at least.  ;-D

Edited October 9, 2018 by 100Proof

[scenario]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think we need a Mythbusters on this.  

Depends totally on the setup above the drop ceiling. I'm just going to assume that it was an old building that was used to be something else and the drop ceiling covered a whole bunch of stuff that he could climb on. 

[ahmerali]

1 minute ago, icemiser69 said:

Plus he has been pulling all sort of cons for a long time, sometimes with Kim's help.  Kim can't be surprised by this.  That is, unless she somehow felt conned herself into believing that Jimmy ever gave a shit about his brother, and was ever going to grieve over his brother's death.

I hate thinking this because it seems very stereotypical, almost to the point of being misogynistic....but is Kim doing the whole "he's a bad boy, and I like it, but I can tame him" thing?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of the episode!

Better Call Saul Gives Season 4's Closing Argument

Jimmy performs sincerity in support of his bar reinstatement appeal while Mike runs a Mann hunt in our EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of Better Call Saul's Season 4 finale, 'Winner.'

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, scenario said:

Depends totally on the setup above the drop ceiling. I'm just going to assume that it was an old building that was used to be something else and the drop ceiling covered a whole bunch of stuff that he could climb on. 

Without testing, I'm calling this one "plausible".  Under the right circumstances, I think Lalo could have gotten in.  

[Bannon]

23 minutes ago, benteen said:

As bas as the drop ceiling is, the super magnet in Breaking Bad to me was the most unrealistic moment on either of these shows.

The drop ceiling maneuver is plausible, given the ceiling is probably concealing plumbing, although the lack of noise is a little much. They could have Lalo engage in some ruse to get the clerk to come out behind the bullet proof glass  but they went for the visual. Not a big deal to me.

I forgave the magnet caper in BB because it was funny. I'll forgive a lot for a laugh.

[ShadowFacts]

7 minutes ago, scenario said:

Stand up on a chair and push open the ceiling tile. See pipe. Pull yourself up by pipe and crawl the needed 4 or 5 feet. Drop down. It would take a gymnast to do it but it's tv. I'll give them the benefit of doubt. 

It's one of the many skills he learned at the feet of Hector. 

2 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Plus he has been pulling all sort of cons for a long time, sometimes with Kim's help.  Kim can't be surprised by this.  That is, unless she somehow felt conned herself into believing that Jimmy ever gave a shit about his brother, and was ever going to grieve over his brother's death.

I thought she was buying the off-script portion of his speech hook, line and sinker, she had tears in her eyes.  I think she thought he finally had a breakthrough, but he really just broke through to another level of insincerity. 

[peeayebee]

31 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Sorry, I just cannot get worked up over Werner's demise.  I'm more pissed off that the lab construction story arc will extend to next season. 

It's possible that Gus will just put it on hold, esp with Lalo snooping around.

 

3 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I forgave the magnet caper in BB because it was funny. I'll forgive a lot for a laugh.

Amen. Totally worth any implausibility.

[Bannon]

26 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

That seems to make sense, based upon the fact that he introduced himself by name to Werner and the whole crew knew they were in ABQ, and knew Mike's name.

I don't understand why they didn't keep the location a secret from the men, have and have them only deal with Mike's alter ego, Dave Clark.  I didn't like the writing in this area.  They made it seem like they were taking extreme precautions for secrecy, then they take the boys out to a strip club in ABQ.  

I think some have said that she is too good looking for Jimmy.   Howard's looks have discussed as well, as have Nacho's and Lalo's.   I think most of the other characters are pretty average looking, at best.   I think the reasons for Jimmy's attraction to Kim (and for hers toward him) are a valid topic of discussion. 

There definitely has been commentary about Jimmy's handsomeness deficit, and how Kim is too good looking for him.

Personally, I think the show has done a good job with visuals of the characters. They all look "normal" to me, not stereotypically gorgeous, as mediocre t.v. tends to do.

[scenario]

The fact that the people look like average people and not supermodels is a selling point to me. Its one of the things I like about British shows. 

I don't think Kim being fooled is that unlikely. She's been trying to get him to show his feelings about Chucks death all season. She knew it was a scam but she thought that he was letting his real feeling show and using them rather than just making it all up. She wanted to believe that Jimmy really still loved Chuck and was fooling herself. 

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

I hate thinking this because it seems very stereotypical, almost to the point of being misogynistic....but is Kim doing the whole "he's a bad boy, and I like it, but I can tame him" thing?

I'm not sure she really wants to tame him, at least not deep down. She seems fascinated with the con artist in him.  I think she has the same gene (no pun intended) that he has, but has been avoiding giving into it better, up until recently.  

9 minutes ago, Bannon said:

The drop ceiling maneuver is plausible, given the ceiling is probably concealing plumbing, although the lack of noise is a little much. They could have Lalo engage in some ruse to get the clerk to come out behind the bullet proof glass  but they went for the visual. Not a big deal to me.

I forgave the magnet caper in BB because it was funny. I'll forgive a lot for a laugh.

I read an article on the magnet caper which interviewed degaussing experts.  The conclusion was generally that it probably wouldn't have worked but that the concept was not totally ridiculous.  One called it "good science fiction".   

Edited October 9, 2018 by Bryce Lynch