All Episodes Talk

[TeeVee329]

As I've said before, 2010 in general was a dumpster fire.  Obviously, I would have been operating from a place of bitterness regardless after the ousters of Rachel, Kim, Schuyler, Kyle, and Fish - and that I get that all of that was out of Ron's hands - but the creative choices the show was making during that spring/summer/most of the fall were bad.

[Melgaypet]

Eli also failed to kill Ford! UNFORGIVABLE!

Eli/Blair/Todd would’ve ruled so hard.

[dubbel zout]

4 hours ago, Dandesun said:

Ted King is delightful but they fucked that pairing up from jump and then they made him responsible for handing Todd over to Irene and ripping the picture of his and Blair's golden balloon wedding from his hands and keeping it and obsessing over it like a total creeper.

I felt so sorry for him. He and KdP had great chemistry, he moved his family to NYC, and then he gets stuck in a total dud of a story. I think he was lied to about what the story would be, tbh, as I don't think there was any idea that RoHo would return when he signed on.

4 hours ago, Dandesun said:

An Eli/Blair/Todd triangle would have been seriously hard for me to choose... which is the way good triangles are supposed to be.

Ugh, it could have been one of the all-time greats.

[UYI]

Another missed opportunity triangle? Gabrielle/Max/Luna. But that may just be me. ;)

And Fiona was on Guiding LIght when Luna was alive, anyway. 

[Melgaypet]

22 hours ago, UYI said:

Another missed opportunity triangle? Gabrielle/Max/Luna. But that may just be me. ;)

I don’t know...I’m not wild about male-centered triangles anyway, and Max in the center is Max at his slimiest and most hateable (I’m thinking Blair/Max/Skye here), or else they’re lopsided - like Blair/Max/Luna, where Blair became the scapegoat for the whole freakin’ town while Max was barely rapped over the knuckles. 

Plus, as Dandesun said a truly successful triangle will have you torn in both directions, and call me crazy, but I think you might be ever so slightly biased in one lady’s favor. ;)

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

I’m not wild about male-centered triangles anyway

I think they're more successful when they're about a woman, not a man.

[boes]

One Life to Live Christmas 1995, Part 1

[UYI]

3 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

I don’t know...I’m not wild about male-centered triangles anyway, and Max in the center is Max at his slimiest and most hateable (I’m thinking Blair/Max/Skye here), or else they’re lopsided - like Blair/Max/Luna, where Blair became the scapegoat for the whole freakin’ town while Max was barely rapped over the knuckles. 

Plus, as Dandesun said a truly successful triangle will have you torn in both directions, and call me crazy, but I think you might be ever so slightly biased in one lady’s favor. ;)

Eh, there are weird people out there who liked both pairings. I'm not one to judge. ;) 

[TeeVee329]

19 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

a truly successful triangle will have you torn in both directions

Soaps have gotten really bad at this.  Ron in particularly always seemed to destroy the third leg in a triangle - Schuyler, Brody, Eli, etc. - to make sure we knew who he wanted us to root for, which often had the opposite effect on me by making me sympathize with the destroyed party and hate the destined couple. 

I recall being stunned, when Clint chose Viki over Kim, that he actually gave Clint and Kim some nice closure scenes and let Clint express that, while he wanted to be with Viki, he did care about Kim and would miss her and wished her well.

And as an aside, the last time I recall being truly torn about what romantic outcome I wanted on a soap was David/Cara/Angie on PP AMC.  I was way into the chemistry between David and Cara, but was also super intrigued by David and Angie's friendship possibly blossoming into more, plus Cara's budding relationship with JR was also kinda sweet.

[BBHN]

Quote

a truly successful triangle will have you torn in both directions

I guess that's why 2 of my favorite triangles in the 90s were Brooke/Ridge/Taylor from B&B and Sonny/Brenda/Jax from GH. I liked both pairings from each triangle, and all the actors had great chemistry with other (even a block of wood like Ronn Moss sizzled with both of his leading ladies). Granted, both triangles had run their course for me by the early 2000s even if the shows themselves would try to keep pushing the triangles...

Edited January 4, 2018 by BBHN

[Melgaypet]

8 hours ago, BBHN said:

I guess that's why 2 of my favorite triangles in the 90s were Brooke/Ridge/Taylor from B&B and Sonny/Brenda/Jax from GH.

Man, Sonny/Brenda/Jax was the shit. My teen self ate that up. I got so I was hardcore pulling for Jax and truly believed Brenda had outgrown Sonny, but I never had any problem seeing why they were such a huge thing.

Another element of a successful triangle is the outcome should never feel pre-ordained. OLTL was especially bad about this with anything involving Rex and Gigi. Those two always had better chemistry with the various spoilers - I don't know if that was because of JPL and Fath's offscreen relationship or that the characters seemed to bring out the worst in each other, probably a combination - but there was never any point in getting invested because the show so clearly considered theirs an Epic Time-Defying Love of Destiny.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Melgaypet

[dwmckim]

5 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

the show so clearly considered theirs an Epic Time-Defying Love of Destiny.

"I'll kindly ask you to leave me out of anything Rex/Gigi related.  Thank you."

-Destiny Evans

[TeeVee329]

15 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

Another element of a successful triangle is the outcome should never feel pre-ordained. OLTL was especially bad about this with anything involving Rex and Gigi. Those two always had better chemistry with the various spoilers - I don't know if that was because of JPL and Fath's offscreen relationship or that the characters seemed to bring out the worst in each other, probably a combination - but there was never any point in getting invested because the show so clearly considered theirs an Epic Time-Defying Love of Destiny.

Yeah, diverting away from the original story - that Rex and Gigi were outsiders in HS who were friends and basically slept together when they conceived Shane because they were bored - and making them destined soul mates whose deep love stood the test of time and space was a mistake, IMO.

And it's true, they often sparked more with the respective spoilers, particularly FF, who I liked much more opposite Schuyler/Scott Clifton and Cutter/Josh Kelly.

Edited January 5, 2018 by TeeVee329

[UYI]

I loved Rex & Gigi at the beginning. Don't @ me.

But I was 19 10 years ago, so I can blame it on being young and stupid, I guess. :P

And I would've been fine if Gigi had wound up with either Sky or Cutter forever. I was done with her and Rex within about a year or so. 

[Melgaypet]

I actually liked them fine in the beginning, too. It's when the show began pushing them as some kind of epic supercouple whose great love transcended time that I started getting turned off. And then the two of them became super-smug about it, too. Though I didn't actually hate them until the Stacy story.

[TeeVee329]

I wasn't watching much at the time, but my understand was that Rex's pairing with Adriana was...not well-received?  So I could see people responding to the shift towards him and Gigi.

[boes]

1 hour ago, Melgaypet said:

I actually liked them fine in the beginning, too. It's when the show began pushing them as some kind of epic supercouple whose great love transcended time that I started getting turned off. And then the two of them became super-smug about it, too. Though I didn't actually hate them until the Stacy story.

I get it, I liked Gigi when she was first introduced in the Paris Texas storyline with Vicki.  I never liked Rex, ever, but at first I thought the two of them were good together.

But as you say, then they got smug.....man did they get smug.  And for those two to suddenly think they were gold plated was as ridiculous as Rex being presented as a sex object.

[UYI]

1 hour ago, TeeVee329 said:

I wasn't watching much at the time, but my understand was that Rex's pairing with Adriana was...not well-received?  So I could see people responding to the shift towards him and Gigi.

I remember them having something of a fan base, but I guess nothing too over the top so that once they were over people got upset (unless you just liked Adriana, then yeah I can see how someone might have been upset). 

[TeeVee329]

38 minutes ago, boes said:

But as you say, then they got smug.....man did they get smug. 

Super smug, totally agree.

[Dandesun]

On 1/5/2018 at 11:00 AM, TeeVee329 said:

I wasn't watching much at the time, but my understand was that Rex's pairing with Adriana was...not well-received?  So I could see people responding to the shift towards him and Gigi.

 Here's the weird thing... I recall really liking Rex/Adriana at first. But in retrospect I seemed to like a lot of Rex' storylines 'at first' or maybe I liked the potential. Like when he and Lindsay hooked up when he got his hands on Ultraviolet and wanted her to teach him how to be classy or whatever. There was a Pygmalion aspect to it that really appealed to me. Lindsay was batshit crazy but she did own art galleries so I could buy a certain amount of 'she knows how to mix amongst upper class muckity-mucks... when she isn't switching out paternity tests or whatever' and Rex was so blue-collar that I could believe he'd think Lindsay was classy. There were certain aspects of it that were nuts but the base premise was believable to me. Also, Lindsay was likely one of the few people who'd give Rex the time of day so I could buy him going to her. There was probably the Jen factor even though I like to pretend that robot never existed. Anyway, she was dead by then. But they didn't really do anything with the story concept except make out in Rex' club. And maybe that was around the same time Rex got wind of Adrianna? So you can see the concept of Rex wanting to class it up for the sake of Adrianna (the Duchess nickname got weird really fast, Adrianna wasn't exactly raised in the lap of luxury) and to catch her eye. Adrianna was suddenly an heiress as Dorian's daughter and you know there was that aspect that was appealing to Rex as well. (Not as appealing as mooching off of Viki for the last couple of years of the show but whatevs...)

I liked Gigi at first as the young single mom struggling with a kid who had health issues. She had an earthy, relatable quality to her. But when the 'magical love story' of Gigi/Rex started it took away a lot of her likability from me because, by then, I was so beyond over Rex that I couldn't look at him. And then she took on some of his worst aspects... the smugness in particular.

Part of me really wished that Gigi and Blair could have reached an impasse considering they were the ones who put in the heavy lifting regarding their children and had to deal with shitty partners who got away with murder because someone important liked them. If the bullying story had been more about Gigi and Blair as mothers to Shane and Jack rather than having Rex and not!Todd snarling at each other and waving their dicks around it would have been a lot better, I think.

[dwmckim]

You really hit it on the head.  Rex as a character and Rex's stories in general always had lots of potential at first, but got messed up as they went along, i believe to a number of factors:

- they often got pushed to frontburner when they really shouldn't have gone beyond supporting

- in conjunction with that, tptb wanted to force Rex stories on viewers shoving them down our collective throats

- JPL could have been a better actor if he wanted to be.  He had the potential but somewhere along the line, he gained a lot of favorable attention from soap convention-type fans and soap press for being comedic and hit went to his head in a way where he embraced a total ham acting, camera mugging style that he had too hard a time breaking.

- the various headwriters each had their own particular flaws and they always seemed to be amplified when writing Rex stories.

[boes]

And who can forget - no matter how hard we tried - Rex's multiple origin storylines?  His "Indian Nation" one might be on record as the most unbelievable AND offensive in Llanview history.  And then they Buchananized him.....

If Rex had been propped any more he'd have been surrounded by scaffolding.

Edited January 19, 2018 by boes

[dubbel zout]

26 minutes ago, boes said:

Rex's multiple origin storylines?  His "Indian Nation" one might be on record as the most unbelievable AND offensive in Llanview history.  And then they Buchananized him.....

I'll never understand why Rex got that much attention. Did anyone really care about his origins? It added nothing.

[Dandesun]

47 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I'll never understand why Rex got that much attention. Did anyone really care about his origins? It added nothing.

Rex had an origin story that worked. He was Mitch's kid with Roxy when she was part of his cult or whatever and it wasn't exactly a happy time for Roxy. You had everything you possibly needed for Rex with that... actual continuity, angst, and plenty of dramatic potential. Why did they change it, is the question. Schuyler being Mitch and Roxy's kid came out of nowhere and didn't have any of the punch because he was so new and it was obvious he was on his way out at that point so it resulted in nothing aside from a couple of good scenes between him and Roxy. But it was unnecessary. Rex was the character the show had invested in so it made infinitely more sense for him to be Mitch's spawn. Even his relationship with Bo would have been enhanced by that because Bo had long term history with Mitch.

But then coming up with a new origin story for him every six months or so just made it all a joke. Who fucking cared by then? None of it was interesting... and all of the crap with Echo, Charlie and Clint was bullshit. The most interesting relationships Rex had (Natalie and Bo) were not due to blood but because they actually invested in each other. To make him Clint's so he was really Natalie's brother and really Bo's nephew was just fucking stupid. Talk about diminishing returns.

[dubbel zout]

9 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

Rex had an origin story that worked. He was Mitch's kid with Roxy when she was part of his cult or whatever and it wasn't exactly a happy time for Roxy. You had everything you possibly needed for Rex with that... actual continuity, angst, and plenty of dramatic potential

Yeah, I phrased that badly. Rex's original story was fine just the way it was. The rewrites were completely unnecessary.

[TeeVee329]

I didn't get that either.  If they thought the Mitch story in 2010 was a flop and wanted to end it, all they had to do was kill Mitch or ship him off to a faraway maximum security prison.  They didn't need to undo Rex being his kid - throwing away the eons of setup, Roxy being his bio mom, etc. - and then bore us with two more paternity stories.   It's not like being related to Mitch made Rex unviable; the audience certainly wasn't holding it against Jessica.

Another thing I didn't like about Rex and Gigi once they got together was the show trying to play them as this working class couple struggling paycheck to paycheck, and that that entitled them to do things like Rex demanding Dorian hand over a Z-Box for him to give to Shane.   Meanwhile, Gigi was living for free on the grounds of a mansion and Rex owned a nightclub and was still paying rent on a loft he didn't live in.  Boo freakin' hoo.

Edited January 20, 2018 by TeeVee329

[UYI]

Everyone here knows how I feel about Luna, but I am a soft touch when it comes to well-done female friendships, even if I don't particularly like either character. And this scene where Luna is revealed to be Marty's rape counselor--and tells her about her own rape, the year before she came to Llanview (she came to Llanview in September of 1991, so it happened sometime in 1990)--is great.

I have to admit that Sheila saying to Marty before the Luna reveal that this counselor is "a special lady" gave my eyerolling skills a bit of a workout, but given the subject matter I tried to keep it in check.

 

[BBHN]

*small voice* I didn't hate Luna...and there were times that I actually liked her...

[UYI]

1 hour ago, BBHN said:

*small voice* I didn't hate Luna...and there were times that I actually liked her...

 

She is one of those characters that polarized people. That said, for years it was easier to find her fans than non-fans...and some of those fans could be pretty over the top. 

[jsbt]

So it's been a long time and this is a super-random Hot Take of the Day, since I've been thinking about this lately, especially with the recent GH controversy over Genie Francis dovetailing into our contemporary moment in society and politics: If OLTL could be relaunched today (spoilers: it won't be) there is so much fertile material in 2018, starting with the #metoo movement and the new wave of the alt right. There are a million things I think OLTL is uniquely suited to do and stories I think it could tell. But the one thing I would not do is bring back Todd Manning.

Don't misunderstand: Todd is one of my favorite characters from OLTL, and I thought Roger Howarth did a good job with him right to the end. I think he was a lot more than just a rapist. But he was a rapist. I think until a new vision could be worked out for the character to potentially reemerge at some point, he is a dinosaur of the past and one of the worst and most permissive examples of what we just accepted as par for the course in entertainment, especially on soaps. And I think it would be beyond insensitive and tone-deaf to the moment to have him leading a show today IMO... kind of like Franco on GH.

I'd probably kill off Todd offscreen and have his death (or presumed death, at least - he could well be back eventually) kick off a lot of fallout and mysteries, as well as having his family grappling with his legacy. Including, possibly, women coming forward claiming Todd and Victor Jr. assaulted them in more recent years. Howarth might appear as a hallucination or ghost, or St. John's Victor might appear briefly (probably in a mental institution tbh), but that'd be it for now.

Edited January 22, 2018 by jsbt

[UYI]

I will say that the #MeToo Movement has definitely made me rethink my love for Todd & Blair and their family to a certain extent. 

[jsbt]

It hasn't made me rethink it - I love those characters - but it has made me reexamine what would be done today.

[TeeVee329]

jsbt, interesting take.  What would you do with Marty, would you bring her back and fix the damage the show did to her?

[jsbt]

Uh, I know she'd be back in some way! LOL. I don't know that it'd be long term though, because I am never sure where Marty can go as a long term character after the '90s. I have been blaming Marty's crazy turn on evil Irene Manning's CIA agency drugging her to keep the Two Todds secret since like 2012 though, so that would be handled in a line or two of dialogue and she would not be a murderer anymore. I think she'd probably be part of a story involving this or the Banner or both. I don't know if Patrick would still be alive. That's about all I got with that.

Jack Manning would be in the alt right though! Because of course his dumb ass would, for awhile. Jack would be a 4chan superstar. And then would end up mending his ways and fucking a black boy.

[dwmckim]

I also think OLTL would be especially relevant in the present given that the newspaper industry is at its heart - with all the attacks on the press, OLTL would be such a powerful forum for stories dealing with such issues. 

[Dandesun]

I struggled long and hard over my developing interest in Todd back in the early days. I seriously struggled with it because everything about him was wrong and I was angry as fuck that I started to feel bad for that rapist piece of shit. It was a fucking battle. But, you know, Nabakov was of the opinion that if you're writing fiction then nothing is off limits and so I had to sit there and go 'well, this is serialized fiction' and just let myself get into the story. That being said... I was never EVER the kind of person that cheered for anything Todd did just because he was Todd. He infuriated me plenty of times. I was very often happy to see him go.

Blair, for my money, was the more interesting character when it came down to it simply because of everything they had with her past that they never actually used. Blair was never beyond redemption because she was always trying so damn hard to be better for her kids. But she always wound up playing the heavy so Todd could make with the puppy dog eyes and the audience would just feel so sorry for him because he wanted her so much and she was just so unreasonable for not taking him back after he did unspeakably awful things to her.

Given the changing standards (long overdue and much more needed but very welcome) I would love to see a Blair that wasn't forced to roll over every time Todd kicked her.

Fix Eli's story and give him back to Blair. I would even bring Marty back because even though I never liked the character, I liked even less that her existence became solely about Todd. That was never right. Ever. And maybe we could finally get the fix that no, raping someone doesn't actually bond you for life. Jesus was that horrible.

[BBHN]

It is funny (not the haha kind of funny) that back in the day, so many fans wanted to see rapists become redeemed...and have their victims fall in love with them.

Edited January 22, 2018 by BBHN

[TeeVee329]

And sadly, Ford and Tess/Jess did have their fans in 2010-11.  How you could stan for a romance where the guy either a) slept with a mentally ill woman who thought she was a teenager losing her virginity or b) slept with her DID alter who was specifically created to help the host withstand sexual abuse, I really have no idea.

[dubbel zout]

The grossest thing for me about Ford/Jessica was he KNEW she was mentally ill and went after her anyway. It was like that turned him on all the more. But they punched a nun during their shenanigans, so I guess it doesn’t matter. UGH.

[UYI]

1 hour ago, Dandesun said:

I struggled long and hard over my developing interest in Todd back in the early days. I seriously struggled with it because everything about him was wrong and I was angry as fuck that I started to feel bad for that rapist piece of shit. It was a fucking battle. But, you know, Nabakov was of the opinion that if you're writing fiction then nothing is off limits and so I had to sit there and go 'well, this is serialized fiction' and just let myself get into the story. That being said... I was never EVER the kind of person that cheered for anything Todd did just because he was Todd. He infuriated me plenty of times. I was very often happy to see him go.

Blair, for my money, was the more interesting character when it came down to it simply because of everything they had with her past that they never actually used. Blair was never beyond redemption because she was always trying so damn hard to be better for her kids. But she always wound up playing the heavy so Todd could make with the puppy dog eyes and the audience would just feel so sorry for him because he wanted her so much and she was just so unreasonable for not taking him back after he did unspeakably awful things to her.

Given the changing standards (long overdue and much more needed but very welcome) I would love to see a Blair that wasn't forced to roll over every time Todd kicked her.

Fix Eli's story and give him back to Blair. I would even bring Marty back because even though I never liked the character, I liked even less that her existence became solely about Todd. That was never right. Ever. And maybe we could finally get the fix that no, raping someone doesn't actually bond you for life. Jesus was that horrible.

I'm glad that the show didn't try to act like Marty would someday forget she was raped--that's simply not the reality--but at times it seemed like that they went so far in the direction of making sure she/the audience remembered it that it felt like they were using it to define her character, as if that was the only thing to know about her, which isn't cool either. (On the flip side, it sometimes feels like Liz on GH isn't acknowledged enough as having been a rape survivor--which could be part of the reason she wound up involved WITH a rapist! But, of course, that's a different show.)

I will say that Blair being the product of rape herself makes the fact that her true love is widely seen by most of the OLTL audience as being a TWO-time rapist (Carol Swift was before Marty!) is...unfortunate, to say the least. 

[Melgaypet]

I agree that Todd and Victor would be hugely problematic for the show today. I loved Todd since Howarth's return, and while I can't say I loved him - in fact, I still mostly hated him - St. John's character (and performance) became a lot more compelling to me once he wasn't Todd. But, you know. Two rapist brothers as the show's leading men, at least in that age range? No. That can't work today and it shouldn't work today. But that leaves an opportunity to bring back other male characters that have been unfairly pushed aside. Kevin and Joey, for example. RJ for another. I suppose he's a little older, but whatever. He's a dangerous, shady guy, but a misogynist he is not. (Have I ever told you guys about my RJ-Blair fantasy pairing?)

[UYI]

Max and Cord! You know, non-rapists. (That said, I understand there was a creepy scene with Max & Blair in 2001? Ugh, I don't want to think about it.) 

[Melgaypet]

Right, yeah. Max sexually assaulted Blair by drugging her and stripping her naked so he could make Todd think she was still sleeping with him (Max). Not that the show ever called it that.

Blair was also raped by Asa. Spencer and Todd both attempted to rape her, though the latter stopped himself. And it was strongly implied that she had been sexually abused while growing up in foster care. And mostly no one cared (or knew, to be fair). Poor Blair. It made sense that she so strongly resented Marty.

[Dandesun]

49 minutes ago, UYI said:

I will say that Blair being the product of rape herself makes the fact that her true love is widely seen by most of the OLTL audience as being a TWO-time rapist (Carol Swift was before Marty!) is...unfortunate, to say the least. 

Blair was not a paragon of self-love and healthy choices so, honestly, it wasn't a huge stretch for me what her relationship with Todd turned into. When they met, he was struggling to adjust to life outside of prison after having a few revelations about what a shitty excuse for a human he was and he had made some decent, unselfish moves that resulted in his early parole. And Blair was treated like the scum of the earth by the entire town because... she had interfered with Max and Luna's pure love of forever and ever... which... okay, I was actually a fan of Max and Luna but that storyline resulted in a few things for me.

1. I was fucking pissed as hell that Max didn't get more side-eye from people for willingly cheating on Luna for a significant amount of time and, yes, running off with Blair repeatedly.

2. It made me a hard-core Blair fan because that 'he was mine!' scene with Cord was fucking everything. I did not want Blair to win Max but I wanted her to find someone who would love the shit out of her because she deserved it. Kassie killed that scene.

The whole build up of Blair and Todd's friendship as the two pariahs who found acceptance with each other worked and it was increasingly easy to overlook some of the less pleasant aspects (ie: Todd's history)

And it's not like I'm even against the concept of redeeming a rapist but it has to be done right. Todd, for the most part, was done right. Jack on DAYS was also handled well. Their pasts were never erased, they never escaped their deeds, they served time or penance or both. and their victims never forgot what they did. Now the whole mess with Todd and Marty and Marty saying 'I'm not afraid of you' when he slept at her house... ugh, I still think that was gross as fuck. Malone really was trying to push for something that was never going to be acceptable to me. After coming back from Ireland to have them continuously in each other's orbits... ugh. Just... ugh.

However, Marty never forgave Todd and I was fine with that. She shouldn't forgive him. She could move on, she could live her life, she was a survivor but having Todd continuously involved in her life was all kinds of uncool. I would accept that even less now than I did then and I didn't. He was never going to earn her forgiveness and that is part of his paying for what he did in the first place. He has to do better with the rest of his life, not hover around the edges of her life, interfering with it and her relationships as if he had a right to do that. She gets to hate him forever. That's what he deserved.

And Blair's history being so checkered and filled with neglect and abuse the way it was... she had to find her own way and it wasn't a path that those who lived a less brutal life would understand. Everyone in Llanview judged Blair and even Todd joined in on that but none of them ever walked in her shoes. 

Times changing as they have... I'm fine with Todd not being a part of the tapestry. I don't want to watch a rapist's search for love over and over again. Since Blair never did anything like that I have far less of a problem watching her continue her life and trying to find love. She has suffered and been maligned all her life. When she and Todd would be on the outs she was still laughed at and maligned and often blamed for it. So no, none of that would be acceptable at this point. 

Todd also never paid to my satisfaction for what he did to Blair with Jack. Nor how he actively lied to Starr to turn her against Blair. All of that shit? Boo. A thousand times boo.

Blair and Marty having so much neglect and sexual assault in their past was interesting as it pertains to them, not Todd. They are two different women who have had to deal with situations as best as they're able to. THAT is the hook... not how Todd ever felt about any of it. The fact that they were so different is where a lot of the story tension should have come from. But the show decided that Todd was the lens to view them through.

Ew.

[UYI]

Is that "He was mine!" scene on YouTube? I've never seen it. (Nor her Atlantic City love scene wth Max--only the aftermath, after Luna caught them; I think the former scene has never been posted to YouTube).

It is strange looking back to think that Todd & Blair were an accidental supercouple, and that Malone's apparent plan the whole time was to eventually put her back with Max and Todd with Marty. It's just so weird. You'd never guess any of that (the Max part, at least) to go back and watch any of their scenes from back then. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by UYI

[jsbt]

I mean, a fundamental character axis of OLTL for decades was mental illness, sexual abuse and incest. It's pretty relevant to now. I think you can treat that honestly, but the one thing you can't do going forward is have the two key male leads be rapist twin brothers. At least, you can't use them again (and I would probably want to, in some way) without thoroughly addressing the situation through today's lens. Which is a lot different than even 2013. You definitely can't build a show around them anymore.

Edited January 23, 2018 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

Hey, remember when asshole Nelson Branco said that Schuyler should have raped Gigi as part of his exit storyline because it would have been a great story for Gigi and Rex?  Ick.

[boes]

55 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Hey, remember when asshole Nelson Branco said that Schuyler should have raped Gigi as part of his exit storyline because it would have been a great story for Gigi and Rex?  Ick.

What ever happened to Nelson Branco?  Has he finally dissipated like swamp gas?

[BBHN]

Quote

'm glad that the show didn't try to act like Marty would someday forget she was raped--that's simply not the reality--but at times it seemed like that they went so far in the direction of making sure she/the audience remembered it that it felt like they were using it to define her character, as if that was the only thing to know about her, which isn't cool either.

I remember in the 90s they wanted Marty and Todd to fall in love. But from what I understand, both actors protested that storyline vehemently.

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, BBHN said:

I remember in the 90s they wanted Marty and Todd to fall in love. But from what I understand, both actors protested that storyline vehemently.

We got Rapemance anyway. UGH. That was horrific.