Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[GirlvsTV]

9 minutes ago, RussianRoulette said:

In the wise words of FS "We all joined clubs we wished we hadn't". As I am starting to regret my long time investment in Arrow, I'm still planning on using my bitterness membership card.

I've quit watching shows I was extremely invested in (Vamp Diairies, Doctor Who, True Blood) for a variety of reasons, but I've never felt like the time I spent watching and being a fan of those shows was wasteful. Unfortunately, that is almost how I feel about Arrow at this point. I don't know that I'll ever 100% regret watching, because it did give me Felicity Smoak, but I do feel like ever caring about Oliver's journey was a total waste of time. They've nearly retconned almost all of the stuff I enjoyed about watching his development, so it feels pointless to have started watching in the first place. Especially with the notion that any growth he may experience on the show in the future will possibly be completely undone or retconned later. What's the point?

[apinknightmare]

33 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

What I'm intrigued with is when shippers would eventually drop it and accept that it's a done deal. 

I don't even think it takes thinking it's a done deal for shippers to drop it. To quote the 411Media review in the News and Media thread:

The problem is, “will-they-or-won’t-they” isn’t interesting on it’s own; especially when the answer is “they-should-and-they-did-we-can’t-really-explain-why-they-aren’t-but-they-aren’t-they-probably-will-though.”

Like @Carrie Ann wrote, the writers are shying away from any kind of relationship drama to the point where none of this makes much sense. Why aren't they together again? I don't know - they're basically acting like a couple while telling each other to move on because they're so afraid to address anything from the previous season that it's like nothing happened at all. Is Felicity still worried about Oliver lying to her even after she said last year that she believed she could change? IDK. Is any of this going to address that, or is she just going to be magically over it when it's the right time? Bet I can guess the answer! 

Is Oliver working on being more open? IDK, because the only thing that's been addressed is that he - again - is having some dual identity crisis. How is getting into another relationship going to help that? Is any of this going to address that, or is he just going to be magically cured of his secret keeping when it's the right time? Bet I can guess the answer!

And now we have new love interests, which...yeah, okay, maybe I could not hate it too much if there were any kind of connection to moving the story of the people I care about. What does having a boyfriend do for Felicity? IDK. Why is Oliver looking for another relationship with someone else when he still looks at Felicity the way he does? What is it going to bring him exactly, apart from - what I can tell from interviews -

Spoiler

Oliver needs to have another relationship because he's only had one over the past couple of years, and flirting/fucking/"romantic elements"-ing the reporter will keep her from working him over like Isabel did, and the secrets she went digging for will probably remain safe. 

Cool. Don't care about it. Not gonna watch it. 

And that's just addressing the ship stuff, much less the other things that should be basic knowledge about the characters we've watched for 5 years and don't know anything about. Does Felicity have a job? Where does Oliver live? This is simple information about these people that the show can't even be bothered to tell us. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

21 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

ETA: OMG I realised I can blame all my shipping problems on Barry! I watched Flash and found Felicity and that made me watch Arrow which I had always assumed was a dodgy show and would NEVER have watched had I not seen Felicity. This is all Barry's fault!

While trying to fall asleep last night, I decided to blame this entire season on Barry. Fuck Barry and Flashpoint. This darkest timeline is all his fault. 

[looptab]

23 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

 

  Hide contents

Oliver needs to have another relationship because he's only had one over the past couple of years, and flirting/fucking/"romantic elements"-ing the reporter will keep her from working him over like Isabel did, and the secrets she went digging for will probably remain safe. 

 

Wait, did he actually say that? I never came around to watch that video in the Spoilers thread. How gross. And, may I remind, Oliver did screw Isabel and thought all was well and she wasn't an antagonist anymore, yet he screwed him over in the end. So where is he going with that, who knows.

Edited November 4, 2016 by looptab

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, looptab said:

Wait, did he actually say that? I never came arount to watch that video in the Spoilers thread. How gross. And, may I remind, Oliver did screw Isabel and thought all was well and she wasn't an antagonist anymore, yet he screwed him over in the end. So where is he going with that, who knows.

No, he didn't say exactly that - I paraphrased it. 

I can't bring myself to go back and watch the interview again to get an exact quote, but he did 

Spoiler

insinuate that they would develop some kind of connection that would make her not pull an Isabel and completely screw him over. I'm guessing based on what he said about their "dynamic" and their relationship having "certain romantic elements" that his magical penis (or the promise of it) is gonna be what gets her to change her mind. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Carrie Ann]

29 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

It feels like robot arms S1 Oliver is back, thankfully without the actual robot arms, but this detached Oliver doesn't work for me because I don't see him as a real character as much as I see Actor Stephen Amell trying to deliberately constraint himself to the max in every possible way. [...] AND the character choices/acting choices for how Oliver deals with the boobs are taking me right out of the narrative. Part of it is none of them have great chemistry with SA, and he IS an actor that really needs his scene partners to be more giving than he is. Only Joe Dinicol is that kind of actor. The other three aren't. And so I get some great disconnect during their scenes -- instead of engaging with the story, I'm wondering what the hell is robot S1 Oliver doing in S5.

OMG this is so true. I've been having trouble connecting to Oliver this season too, and I think this is part of the reason. As I said in my earlier post, he was a completely different person in S4, but I can't...quite fix on who this S5 person is. It's kind of like S1 Oliver, kind of like parts of S3, but I can't quite locate it. There's nothing to point to and say, "Okay, see he's responding like this because of [x]." With Dig, it all goes back to Andy and I feel like even if I don't buy that or like it, I can connect the dots.

But there is nothing that explains where this new Oliver came from. He wasn't even like this at the end of S4, so I can't point to the breakup or to Saint Laurel. He's just...like this now, for some reason, and because there's no emotion to tie it to, I don't think Amell is pulling it off at all. It just feels like he's been replaced by a pod person. Ooh, midseason twist!

[looptab]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

No, he didn't say exactly that - I paraphrased it. 

I can't bring myself to go back and watch the interview again to get an exact quote, but he did 

  Hide contents

insinuate that they would develop some kind of connection that would make her not pull an Isabel and completely screw him over. I'm guessing based on what he said about their scenes being "dynamic" and their relationship having "certain romantic elements" that his magical penis (or the promise of it) is gonna be what gets her to change her mind. 

Oh, yeah, I got that you were paraphrasing - I was referring to the general implications :)

Anyway, it sounds bad. One thing is 

Spoiler

saying they have a connection, so she won't be an antagonist down the line, another is saying they develop a connection in order to avoid her being an antagonist. I hope he meant the first.

I also hope what I'm trying to say it's clear, because I feel it's not, haha.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I'm having a weird problem with Oliver this season, and this week I realized it's the same problem I had with him in S1 -- I simply don't buy Steve's acting when Oliver is emotionally constipated. And that's what he feels like in present time scenes again, and it feels like a deliberate character choice [and acting choices] only in present time scenes, because I'm not bothered by Russian flashbacks Oliver. It feels like robot arms S1 Oliver is back, thankfully without the actual robot arms, but this detached Oliver doesn't work for me because I don't see him as a real character as much as I see Actor Stephen Amell trying to deliberately constraint himself to the max in every possible way.

And... I'm pretty sure it's connected to the decision of going full-on noromo on O/F, and because of the boobs. Because O/F was the biggest thing that made Steve soften Oliver up on purpose, AND the character choices/acting choices for how Oliver deals with the boobs are taking me right out of the narrative. Part of it is none of them have great chemistry with SA, and he IS an actor that really needs his scene partners to be more giving than he is. Only Joe Dinicol is that kind of actor. The other three aren't. And so I get some great disconnect during their scenes -- instead of engaging with the story, I'm wondering what the hell is robot S1 Oliver doing in S5.

THIS. I've felt like there was something missing from Oliver this season and in scenes with EBR especially it's almost as if I can actually see SA trying to rein himself in. It's coming across as a bit awkward because it's just not organic. He feels emotionless and robotic most of the time, exactly like he did in s1. Except back then he actually had an excuse to be that way. Now it just feels like regression. 

[ladylaw99]

I am just annoyed.  I have invested 4 years of my life into this show.  There has been more downs than ups and I stuck around.

Like others I have a very busy life and stressful job so when a get invested in a show I have certain expectations.  If you want me to watch your show than make me care, make me want to tune into your show every week and once I do it is your job to keep me.  Right now I don't feel like they want me to watch so maybe I will grant them their wish.

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I'm having a weird problem with Oliver this season, and this week I realized it's the same problem I had with him in S1 -- I simply don't buy Steve's acting when Oliver is emotionally constipated. And that's what he feels like in present time scenes again, and it feels like a deliberate character choice [and acting choices] only in present time scenes, because I'm not bothered by Russian flashbacks Oliver. It feels like robot arms S1 Oliver is back, thankfully without the actual robot arms, but this detached Oliver doesn't work for me because I don't see him as a real character as much as I see Actor Stephen Amell trying to deliberately constraint himself to the max in every possible way.

And... I'm pretty sure it's connected to the decision of going full-on noromo on O/F, and because of the boobs. Because O/F was the biggest thing that made Steve soften Oliver up on purpose, AND the character choices/acting choices for how Oliver deals with the boobs are taking me right out of the narrative. Part of it is none of them have great chemistry with SA, and he IS an actor that really needs his scene partners to be more giving than he is. Only Joe Dinicol is that kind of actor. The other three aren't. And so I get some great disconnect during their scenes -- instead of engaging with the story, I'm wondering what the hell is robot S1 Oliver doing in S5.

Yeah, it's something I couldn't quite put my finger on, now that I think about it, I agree. Even with s3 and s4 being "maligned by fans" (whatever), there were a bunch of well-acted scenes with SA, mostly when he had one of the other main players or when scenes had good emotional set-up. Here, there hasn't been any substantially emotional scenes between Oliver and any of the characters (except for the ending of 502 when he confronts Rory and he talks about their fathers, and even then it's slightly off because Rory's a newbie and because Oliver's all hooded-up and masked), and I'm kind of stumped on what kind of actually emotionally dynamic scenes might come up in s5, besides 508. In s3 you had scenes like the end of 302, him telling Thea that he's the Arrow, while in s4 you had this whole new brighter Oliver who was gaining a new outside persona as the mayor elect, more emotionally vulnerable scenes with Felicity, and a bunch of scenes between s3 and s4 that gave SA different emotional reactions to do (404 with Lance, 315 with Diggle, etc.).

With s4, I knew some scenes would come up that would be interesting to watch SA act in, even if they didn't turn out as well as I would have hoped. With s5, I can't think of any future scenarios/scenes that actually gives SA the chance to be emotionally connective, with new people being the main support and not as deep connection between Oliver and Felicity.

[dtissagirl]

9 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

But there is nothing that explains where this new Oliver came from. He wasn't even like this at the end of S4, so I can't point to the breakup or to Saint Laurel. He's just...like this now, for some reason, and because there's no emotion to tie it to, I don't think Amell is pulling it off at all. It just feels like he's been replaced by a pod person. Ooh, midseason twist!

 

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

THIS. I've felt like there was something missing from Oliver this season and in scenes with EBR especially it's almost as if I can actually see SA trying to rein himself in. It's coming across as a bit awkward because it's just not organic. He feels emotionless and robotic most of the time, exactly like he did in s1. Except back then he actually had an excuse to be that way. Now it just feels like regression. 

My most depressing spec is that TPTB and Amell decided last season's Oliver was too emasculated by his love for Felicity, so the new directive is to counteract that at all costs.

[And unfortunately, the way Steve translates it into acting is by clenching up so much I'm actually worried about him getting butt cramps.]

[Mellowyellow]

I thought it was awful he goes from being stiff to overacting and too much smiling in the breakup scene.  That's why I found that breakup really strange.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Man, where do they get their feedback from? CB sites and Reddit? Their takeaways from the failures last season boggle my mind. @dtissagirl do shows still do focus groups? How do they gather feedback these days? 

[looptab]

On 30/6/2016 at 5:47 AM, looptab said:

At the moment, I'm kinda resigned to other LIs - much as I hate that and have no desire of watching that - as long as it is a storyline related to them, in service of their story. But worst case scenario for me, and what I truly hope they stay away from and don't even think of doing, it's them just ignoring Olicity, have them act like it never happened, or let them - apparently - permanently move on, like on many CW shows (90210, Gossip Girl, TVD). That's the no-no for me.

Ok, I went and found this post I wrote in June - I remembered it, and the comparison with 90210 I made in a later one (shh, don't judge). Seems like my prediction came true - ugh. 

And the funny part is that I'm not even sure that's what is happening? I read @Carrie Ann's post and thought, damn, she's right. Then again I read @quarks's and it all sounds reasonable. Bottom line is, I have no idea what is happening and I don't like it, LOL.

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Man, where do they get their feedback from? CB sites and Reddit? Their takeaways from the failures last season boggle my mind. @dtissagirl do shows still do focus groups? How do they gather feedback these days? 

Comments on Stephen's and CW Arrow's Facebook pages, apparently.

Edited November 4, 2016 by lemotomato

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, looptab said:

And the funny part is that I'm not even sure that's what is happening? I read @Carrie Ann's post and thought, damn, she's right. Then again I read @quarks's and it all sounds reasonable. Bottom line is, I have no idea what is happening and I don't like it, LOL.

Same. I could probably be talked into or out of anything at this point, because no storyline is too stupid, no shortcut too inane. Basically any of it could make sense in terms of how Arrow goes through plot and "character development." Hope for the best, expect the worst, stop watching and come back if it gets interesting again, don't come back at all, etc. Whatever keeps ya sane. 

[dtissagirl]

10 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Man, where do they get their feedback from? CB sites and Reddit? Their takeaways from the failures last season boggle my mind. @dtissagirl do shows still do focus groups? How do they gather feedback these days? 

I know CBS still does focus groups old style -- episode screenings in Las Vegas with rando tourists -- but I have no idea if the CW does it too. If they don't even have a social media team, do they have a market research team? Is this on WB rather than the CW? I don't know.

It's just so fucking weird to be nearing a hundred episodes, and to all of a sudden be second-guessing acting choices, and the emotional journey of the protagonist of the show. WHAT EVEN, ARROW. But at the same time, in terms of sticking to pre-determined plot beats, they aren't doing anything particularly surprising or unusual. Imo @quarks' breakdown in the Romance thread is dead on. But it's not working for me in anyway. I don't even know if I wanna quit or not. LOL.

Edited November 4, 2016 by dtissagirl

[looptab]

Lol there should be a support group for this. I kinda envy the blind '4LYFE' fans and those who already quit. I can't figure out where I stand, I agree and disagree with everyone.

[Morrigan2575]

6 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I know CBS still does focus groups old style -- episode screenings in Las Vegas with rando tourists -- but I have no idea if the CW does it too. If they don't even have a social media team, do they have a market research team? Is this on WB rather than the CW? I don't know.

Yes, they do, in fact that just ordered 2 Focus Groups for the Week of 10/16 and you'll NEVER guess what their area of concerns were :)

Edited November 4, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, looptab said:

Lol there should be a support group for this. I kinda envy the blind '4LYFE' fans and those who already quit. I can't figure out where I stand, I agree and disagree with everyone.

This is sooooo me at the moment! 

I'm a sensible woman who makes good real life choices so why on earth am I dilly dallying around a ship on a stupid show. At this point anyone can talk me into anything!

[dtissagirl]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Yes, they do, in fact that just ordered 2 Focus Groups for the Week of 10/16 and you'll NEVER guess what their area of concerns were :)

OOOOOOOOH. :)

[lemotomato]

9 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I know CBS still does focus groups old style -- episode screenings in Las Vegas with rando tourists -- but I have no idea if the CW does it too. If they don't even have a social media team, do they have a market research team? Is this on WB rather than the CW? I don't know.

FWIW, I participated in a LoT focus group last season. It was run by Warner Brothers and conducted through email. I haven't heard from them for this season, though. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by lemotomato

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Yes, they do, in fact that just ordered 2 Focus Groups for the Week of 10/16 and you'll NEVER guess what their area of concerns were :)

Omg do you have insider info?

[Carrie Ann]

18 minutes ago, looptab said:

And the funny part is that I'm not even sure that's what is happening? I read @Carrie Ann's post and thought, damn, she's right. Then again I read @quarks's and it all sounds reasonable. Bottom line is, I have no idea what is happening and I don't like it, LOL.

Same, btw. I change my mind every few hours. :)

[RussianRoulette]

Damn this conference, I am still drinking (and I am bored to death). So I have more things to say (also with my husband, we used to have a drinking game last season with darkness/light. 1 shot everytime a character said "darkness"; 2 shots everytime a character said "light" yeaaaaaaaah.... it was really baaaaad but still fun).

I read all the posts which are so on the point I wanna say word to everything. Because you are all too smart!

Ultimately, I was also thinking about how it's quite hard to be a woman and a female viewers these times. What I mean mean by that, and perhaps I am too sensitive about it, is that there is some kind of stigma about  women having an opinions about shows and expressing their opinions. Sure, many would say that comics will be comics!!!!111!!. But that is not the point. I am bitter about the fact that people disparage the opinion of female viewers because they are" shippers". Um, what? Romantic or not romantic relationships are at the core of basic human emotions. There is a need to bond with other people because we are social creatures. Fandom is one vehicle for that.

So yeah. Thanks MG and everyone for your moronic comments.

Edited November 4, 2016 by RussianRoulette
ugh. I am in Europe so reasonable hour to drink but does not excuse typos

[Morrigan2575]

16 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Omg do you have insider info?

I occasionally hear things and No I do not have the secrets to life.  I have no idea what's going on with the show or what they're planning.  I've just heard from a pretty reliable friend that The CW was NOT happy with the DC Premiere Ratings and Arrow seemed to be of big concern

[Chaser]

31 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Yes, they do, in fact that just ordered 2 Focus Groups for the Week of 10/16 and you'll NEVER guess what their area of concerns were :)

This falls in line with my first thought when I read MG's tweet about shippers and ratings. I read it as he got a call from the network and was throwing a fit.

Now I don't know if that means the focus groups were happy clams with MG and this is his way of shading shippers who are disagreeing with that conclusion, but if that was case I would think he would dismiss them as the 'vocal minority.' 

I would like to believe those groups came back with something else and MG is mad because he now has to rework his timeline.  

Edited November 4, 2016 by Chaser

[Morrigan2575]

I have no idea what the results were, I wish I did because, it could go so many different ways.  Focus Group could be like, we LOVE Wild Dog and the Noobs give us MORE. Which, while I don't actually hate Wild Dog and the Noobs as much as I thought, I'd be more than happy to have them exit stage left. 

[Chaser]

This is going to drive me crazy.

[Thundercatmary]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

This is going to drive me crazy.

*crazier

;)

[GirlvsTV]

How do they pull these focus groups together? Are they completely random groups of individuals who have not watched the show before, or do they seek regular viewers for feedback? Because I'd imagine responses from those who do not watch the show regularly would be quite different from those who do.

[lemotomato]

14 minutes ago, GirlvsTV said:

How do they pull these focus groups together? Are they completely random groups of individuals who have not watched the show before, or do they seek regular viewers for feedback? Because I'd imagine responses from those who do not watch the show regularly would be quite different from those who do.

For me, at least, I first got a survey asking me questions about whether I watched any of the DCTV shows, how familiar I was with certain characters, and if I had heard of LoT. Before LoT premiered, I got an email saying that I was selected to give feedback throughout the season for the show. I got a feedback survey after every new episode.

Edited November 4, 2016 by lemotomato

[looptab]

Do you feel like your opinion has been taken into consideration? :)

[EmeraldArcher]

I have an idea I want to run by all of you:

As I read all of your thoughts and legitimate complaints again Arrow, I wonder if there's a story here for Laura Hurley or some other brave female writer who might do a story about female viewers' reactions to Arrow and how many of us are ready to walk away. A writer could mine from our posts, look at other women's tweets, the comment sections of the various forums, and relevant social media. We talk about how difficult it is to be a woman in fandom, and some writers are covering it from their own observations, but have any done case studies based on actual fan comments in these public spaces?

We've often expressed our belief that Laura Hurley lurks on this board anyway--should we as a group propose this story to her? I have no intention to somehow influence the show; rather, I think it's important to hear from women how we perceive female characters and our reactions to BTS indicators that we're not welcome or legitimate fans. It surely isn't isolated to Arrow.

What do you think?

[lemotomato]

7 minutes ago, looptab said:

Do you feel like your opinion has been taken into consideration? :)

Considering that my feedback was mostly: "Sara's awesome, more Sara" and "the Hawks are terrible, less Hawks please", and looking at how this season of LoT is shaking out, I'd say yes? But like it's been said before, sometimes the TPTB already have plans and favorites in place, and they only use the audience opinions that reinforce their decisions.

Edited November 4, 2016 by lemotomato

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher said:

What do you think?

Not being snarky, but I think it would be a waste of time. The people who run/write this show have been repeatedly dismissive of anyone who has raised any kind of issues with it, so I'm not sure why they'd care now. Seems like the suits are already trying to work out what has people tuning out, so...while it might be cathartic for people who want to share their opinions, I highly doubt anyone who "matters" will be listening. 

[dtissagirl]

I'm putting these here because they add to my bitterness. Brian Ford Sullivan is trying to explain Oliver's emotional journey on Twitter, episode by episode:

I don't know why he didn't touch 505, but lol.

Also, holy crap, this is legit the most didactic television show in the history of all time. Basically, if Felicity gave Oliver the 3 speeches from 501-502-503 at the same time, he could have learned it all at once? O-kay then.

[looptab]

Didn't we get lesson 1, 2, 3, like a hundred times over the past 5 years? 

Why won't they just shut up and get off twitter?

Though I think it's worth noting that - while being condescending asses about it - they are acknowledging fan complaints lately. As others have said, there seems to be a stronger reaction this time than in past instances.

Edited November 4, 2016 by looptab

[lemotomato]

In defense of Brian Ford Sullivan, he's been the only person from the show who hasn't been dismissive or rude while responding to fans. Low bar set by MG and  Balderrama, I know, but still.

[calliope1975]

Hahhahhahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. That's hilarious. Pro Tip: If you have to explain the minutiae of what you're doing, you are failing at your job. Oh wait, I'm sorry, it just means I'm watching the show wrong. Solution: I won't watch your show.

[tangerine95]

That kinda explains to me why Oliver seems so weird and I don't really care about what they're doing with him this season.They're tying his emotional journey with totally new characters  I don't care about and basically mostly want gone. All he has is being a team leader to the newbies and that basically involves being a grumpy jerk most of the time, it's really falling flat for me tbh.

[Carrie Ann]

Also, one-episode "emotional journeys" don't translate to season- or series-long emotional journeys, or explain why he regressed and continues to regress on some of these issues. Will he remember this trust thing next week? Who can say! It's like every episode I have to figure out what this version of Oliver understands about himself and the world. It's Memento, every week.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[dtissagirl]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

In defense of Brian Ford Sullivan, he's been the only person from the show who hasn't been dismissive or rude while responding to fans. Low bar set by MG and  Balderrama, I know, but still.

I think if I were enjoying the show, I would appreciate his tweets on process a whole lot more. Alas.

[calliope1975]

1 minute ago, tangerine95 said:

That kinda explains to me why Oliver seems so weird and I don't really care about what they're doing with him this season.They're tying his emotional journey with totally new characters  I don't care about and basically mostly want gone. All he has is being a team leader to the newbies and that basically involves being a grumpy jerk most of the time, it's really falling flat for me tbh.

Plus, this isn't new territory. He had to learn to be a team leader with Roy. And Thea. And Buckles. Did he forget everything he learned then? Or is their excuse that he had to be part of a team and not the leader? Lord, why do I even try to make sense of this anymore?

[statsgirl]

Remember how, when you were a child, summer vacations were magical and perfect?  They really weren't but that's how we tend to remember them.

I'm wondering if that how the EPs think of season 1, that it was so perfect and they want to get back to it.  Show Oliver connecting to new people, show how it all develops.  Watch the SA/EBR chemistry save the day.

In reality, while season 1 was good, it wasn't all that perfect (the Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle ugh).  And it was 4 years ago, shouldn't we expect every character to have grown and evolved?  (Except on shows like NCIS that is, which is why I stopped watching)

Maybe they're also thinking that since we put in so much energy shipping Oliver and Felicity to get together, we're going to do it again to ship them getting back together again.  Personally, in a word, No.  I'm not interested in retreading that route.

[Guest]

LOL those tweets. It's actually moved passed laughable and is now just plain sad that we've reached such a low point. It's the fifth season and Oliver is behaving like his s1 self and having to re-learn shit he's already learned before. OKAY. MAKES SENSE.

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

and having to re-learn shit he's already learned before

To be fair - he's always had to re-learn shit he's already learned before, the beautiful moron.

[calliope1975]

I can't help but think of iconic (for me) characters who's journey always made sense and didn't need to be spelled out in tweet form. Walter White, Veronica Mars, Buffy Summers. I'm sure there were inconsistencies, but for the most part when I look back on those characters, their actions made sense and were in character. If they regressed, I knew why based on what was happening in their life or their mindset.

Oliver Queen just goes where the plot takes him. He's relearned so many lessons over and over and over again to the point that I worry the guy has had a massive brain injury. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

To be fair - he's always had to re-learn shit he's already learned before, the beautiful moron.

This is very true. I'm just tired/bored of it now, especially when Oliver seems more regressed than ever. At least to me anyway. 

[dtissagirl]

Oooh, 505 and 506 [non-spoilery]:

I love how embracing being Oliver as well as the mask in 505 translated into "well, maybe I should look into boning new women."