Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[Morrigan2575]

I'm hoping against hope that he'll go back to the original suit or something similar. I really hate this one and I hate how lackluster the fights have become.

[kismet]

Well, sure he can move, but can he see? I'm not so certain. Supposedly he asked Cisco for improvements on The Flash. Why is he dragging his feet?

I truly believe making Cisco fashion designer to the vigilante heroes was the worst decision. He literally has not created one good suit (besides flash #1) or costume enhancement. From Canary Collar to FaceMask, it has all been bad. But for me, it just gives me another valid reason for why I do not like Cisco. I think I preferred when it was some random person around the corner because he was a faceless idiot if I did not like it. And if they wanted to fix it, I just always assumed the guy moved. Now that Cisco is the go to guy, I’m becoming impatient for them to fix it because I know he has some free time.

 

I’m not sure if Dig can see out of the mask or not. But at least it’s never impacted his performance on screen. I have not seen him miss a shot or not land his hit. Meanwhile OQ looks like overweight walk-on that looks like he needs a long water break.

[DeadZeus]

If anybody rewatches the LoT action scene u notice Oliver shooting 3 arrows then putting his bow in his "melee hand" and he does it so smoothly, like he has done it 100000 times. They need to utilise this more on Arrow so he can switch from shooting to fighting more fluently in action scenes.

[Angel12d]

So...my friend is a casual viewer and ships Olicity (still does too, that hasn't changed) but she thinks that Felicity is being unreasonable and gave up on Oliver too easily. O_o

 

And it got me thinking...would Felicity have more support if we'd heard more of her POV? I feel like the general audience might need a reminder of all the times and situations Oliver has lied and shut other people out because apparently, Oliver has been the perfect boyfriend (he stayed by her side when she was paralyzed, he's a saint!!) and dumping him over one lie which he had no choice in anyway makes Felicity the devil. Even now Felicity's lie about helping the team during the summer is being compared to Oliver's lie about having a child, like they're somehow equal. Say whaaaat?

 

I just wished they'd had Felicity bring up what Oliver did last season...keeping both herself and Diggle in the dark and hurting them both in the process. Felicity and Diggle thought Oliver had left them to die. They 'died' thinking they'd been betrayed simply because he never told them his plan. That in itself is awful and Felicity forgave him anyway. Why couldn't she bring that up? There's a whole history of Oliver shutting people out and lying and not depending on anyone when things get tough and yet the audience are led to believe it's just this one lie about his kid that she can't deal with. Huh?

 

Call me cynical but I do wonder if the writers took note of the hate Oliver was getting for the lie in 408 and then did everything in their power to ensure he had in-show support from everyone and tons of sympathy while Felicity was left to look like she gave up too easily. I don't agree but if casual viewers are thinking this, they've done such a disservice to Felicity's character. And I hate that they keep doing this - throwing her under the bus to make dumb plots and other characters work. It's so unfair and I'm increasingly bitter about it.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Angel12d

[ComicFan777]

Yeah, it bothers me, too.  I guess it's the Oliver Queen charm.  I think a big part of the reason why people are more Team Oliver is because Oliver has been the perfect boyfriend up until the BMD and in contrast, the show has shown more and more of how human Felicity is.  We see a lot more of Felicity's flaws, insecurities, and abandonment issues that she has.  It's not to say it is a bad thing at all, because I really like seeing that side of her because it makes her even more real and relatable to me, but it is a stark contrast to how perfect Oliver has been earlier this season. 

 

Also, Oliver has that kicked puppy look down...personally, I think Felicity has a spine of steel to be able to walk away from that...and, the gazes would make most girls weak in the knees.  I immensely admire Felicity for being able to stand her ground.

 

I do think that if most people were in this position in a relationship in real life, people would walk away just like Felicity did.   

Edited March 26, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Chaser]

I actually think the audience and reviewers were more on Felicitys side up until 4x15. Poor Oliver his son was taken. Poor Oliver he can't be a Dad. He needs some support. Thea already helped, here is Diggle and throw some Vixen in and here is Baby Mama saying it's her fault. They wrapped him in the biggest cushion they could find. And then when it was finally Felicitys turn to talk, they give her a couple lines and then had her walk out.

Then you have 4x16. Poor Panda Oliver Queen. He is so hopefully and he loves her so much and no one else had any problem with his behavior but Felicity. And there are moments were Felicity is harsh.

I liked the break up scene but it needed more. Felicity needs to talk about his trips to CC and bring up him deciding to align with MM and join Ras. She needs to point out the times they was personally affected by his choices. It has to be ugly for Oliver because he needs to learn something from this. They aren't making his actions ugly enough for the audience IMO.

[Angel12d]

This is what I mean. They've done so much to ensure that Oliver isn't hated and that his lie was a lie by omission and he had no choice, that they've made it look like Felicity is somehow the one in the wrong for not accepting that. That's unfair. Literally everyone has supported him, even Diggle said that Felicity just needs time to essentially get over it meaning it's HER problem to get over. So wrong. I get more ragey the more I think about it.

[Chaser]

Per Diggle and Olivers conversation in 4x16, Diggle probably thinks Felicity and Oliver broke up cause the kid is problem. I can't get my head around Diggle actually believing that would be a problem for Felicity. Why couldn't Oliver just say it was the lying? Maybe then we would have Diggle say something about the real issue and maybe show some support for Felicity.

Rage bitter rage

Edited March 26, 2016 by Chaser

[apinknightmare]

Per Diggle and Olivers conversation in 4x16, Diggle probably thinks Felicity and Oliver broke up cause the kid is problem. I can't get my head around Diggle actually believing that would be a problem for Felicity. Why couldn't Oliver just say it was the lying?

 

He did. He told Digg that they broke up because he lied. 

[ComicFan777]

Per Diggle and Olivers conversation in 4x16, Diggle probably thinks Felicity and Oliver broke up cause the kid is problem. I can't get my head around Diggle actually believing that would be a problem for Felicity. Why couldn't Oliver just say it was the lying? Maybe then we would have Diggle say something about the real issue and maybe show some support for Felicity.

Rage bitter rage

 

I think Oliver specifically said to Diggle that Felicity broke up with him because he lied about his son.  I was surprised that the writers actually had him say it out loud.  It didn't seem like Diggle was listening though. 

 

Diggle: "How are you holding up?  Is this about your son?"

Oliver: "The fact that I lied to her about him, yeah."

Diggle: "Well you got a kid, man.  That is a whole lot to handle.  But don't worry she will come around.  Give her time."

Edited March 26, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Chaser]

Thanks. I guess I was to focused on Diggles non reaction.

[KirkB]

But it seems like Diggle and Thea are automatically taking Oliver's side. Since we have never seen them talking to Felicity or getting her side of the story, their opinions and advice come from a very one-sided point of view. It's not Oliver having a son that is the issue for Felicity, it's not even the fact he hid the boy's existence from her, it's that this is the latest in a long line of repeated behavior. When things get tough Oliver shuts down and retreats, he hides things because he apparently feels it's better to succeed or fail on his own. In this case though he also seems to be insecure. He doesn't appear to be so much concerned about Felicity's feelings as he is worried she'll break up with him if the stuff he's been hiding comes out, only to discover too late it's not the the stuff he was hiding she has a problem with but rather the fact he was hiding it at all. He has, as best, withheld information and at worse lied to her repeatedly, like whatever he told her he was doing when he was really going to Central City to visit William. I like Oliver but quite frankly he brought this all on himself.

Edited March 26, 2016 by KirkB

[Angel12d]

I think Oliver specifically said to Diggle that Felicity broke up with him because he lied about his son.  I was surprised that the writers actually had him say it out loud.  It didn't seem like Diggle was listening though. 

 

Diggle: "How are you holding up?  Is this about your son?"

Oliver: "The fact that I lied to her about him, yeah."

Diggle: "Well you got a kid, man.  That is a whole lot to handle.  But don't worry she will come around.  Give her time."

 

UGH. It's even worse reading it - the enabling his lie. The annoying thing is, just a little tweaking of that dialogue could have offered Felicity some support even though she's apparently not allowed to be in any one-on-one scenes with anyone apart from Oliver or her mom. Oh, and sometimes Curtis. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

The thing that baffles me is that Oliver keeping secrets is a problem for them all, not just for Felicity. They seem to have forgotten what happened with Thea in season 2 and with Diggle in season 3. It's in everyone's best interest that Oliver understands closing off when things get tough is wrong and he needs to work on that so Thea's advice to lie and Diggle's "she'll come around" make no sense after everything they have all been through because of the same mistake over and over again.

[theacostov]

I wish they had Felicity say something about how for the last few months he's been lying to her and she wasn't able to tell. How can she continue on living her life with him when in the back of her mind she'll be wondering if he's hiding something? I just wanted her to make it clear that that was not the kind of marriage she wanted and they both deserved better than that. They needed her to say the words very bluntly. I feel like they flowered around it with the island thing. They didn't talk about how it would affect HER.

[tarotx]

Thea is Oliver's sister and Diggle is Oliver's best friend. The problem is that Felicity doesn't have that support. Donna is not a regular and Curtis is one if her employees. Felicity needs a female friend. Who isn't Oliver's ex.

[apinknightmare]

I think that there are a couple of other wonky things that have happened with the writing that could be confusing for casual viewers (and some non-casual viewers in this first instance). Felicity broke up with Oliver because she said she knew he would always be compelled to hide things from her, but just two episodes prior, she actually defended Quentin to Donna for doing that exact thing (which makes no sense knowing what was coming up, at all, and wasn't necessary to the story at large, unless it comes into play with Donna's view of the breakup, which...ugh).

 

And while it is reasonable to assume that part of Felicity's issue with Oliver hiding things stems from things that happened in the past - specifically his involvement in the whole LoA mess - she's never expressed that as being an issue for her short of her being angry that his plan was basically to die. It hasn't come up at all this season, and she didn't bring it up as a reason when she was breaking up with him. I'm betting a lot of the casual audience has forgotten it happened, given that we're almost a year out. If that's the case, then I suspect that it *does* seem like she's giving up on him too easily, especially since the breakup was abbreviated because she had to get up and walk out, and what we did hear from her was basically that the engagement was off, and she needed some space. Then in this ep, she's at the point where she was wrong that they could have it all, that Oliver isn't ever going to change, and that there's no fixing the problem. 

 

We could've definitely done with some more of her POV - I think that's the biggest problem, regardless of how the lie was sold in-show. 

Edited March 26, 2016 by apinknightmare

[bijoux]

He did. He told Digg that they broke up because he lied. 

 

And this really sours me on Dig. Oliver actually faced up what he did wrong and stated it expressly. Yet Dig, who was in a snit for SIX MONTHS over Oliver's lies and then "welcoming" him back with, "You don't love and you don't trust", is suddenly a-okay with this. I wasn't too thrilled about what they did to Thea, but I can be more forgiving with her since she is still very young and does not yet have that much life experience. Dig on the other hand is almost twice her age and is supposed to be the team's Yoda. I'd really, really like him to sit down and think how Lyla would react if he were to keep his new found child a secret from her for months.

 

Personally, it was Dig who came off badly in that scene, not Oliver and certainly not Felicity.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Thea is Oliver's sister and Diggle is Oliver's best friend. The problem is that Felicity doesn't have that support. Donna is not a regular and Curtis is one if her employees. Felicity needs a female friend. Who isn't Oliver's ex.

Diggle is supposed to be Felicity's friend too though even if the show remembers that sporadically. Also his friendship with Oliver was almost destroyed because of Oliver's tendency to keep secrets and not trust the people closest to him so I thought in this particular occasion he could have had a few words of wisdom for his friend about not repeating the same mistake he did with him.

[ComicFan777]

Once upon a time Diggle was that good friend to Felicity...I really miss the Delicity friendship.

[Chaser]

I think a case can be made that by not giving Felicity a POV they are short-charging Oliver's story. We need to understand why Oliver is in the wrong and where his character needs to go from here. As of right now Felicity is the only character calling him out on this repeat offender behavior. Instead of this being a character beat to grow on, it just comes across as a Felicity being the odd one out and therefore irrational. It frustrates me that they really are framing it as Felicity's issue to work through. She has stuff to work on but so does he and they aren't really acknowledging it.

 

Once upon a time Diggle was that good friend to Felicity...I really miss the Delicity friendship.

He really could be the perfect bridge. He is a father so he sees Oliver's side, but he has also been on the receiving end of Oliver's lies. If only the show would remember they are friends.

[apinknightmare]

I think a case can be made that by not giving Felicity a POV they are short-charging Oliver's story. We need to understand why Oliver is in the wrong and where his character needs to go from here. As of right now Felicity is the only character calling him out on this repeat offender behavior. Instead of this being a character beat to grow on, it just comes across as a Felicity being the odd one out and therefore irrational. It frustrates me that they really are framing it as Felicity's issue to work through. She has stuff to work on but so does he and they aren't really acknowledging it.

 

He really could be the perfect bridge. He is a father so he sees Oliver's side, but he has also been on the receiving end of Oliver's lies. If only the show would remember they are friends.

 

But Oliver hasn't hidden anything from them recently, and the most recent incident of him doing that only affects Felicity. Oliver told Diggle that Felicity broke up with him because of the lie (which Diggle, unfortunately, understood the reasoning for), but she made it clear to Oliver that she ended it because she knew that hiding things from her and going it alone at times was a pattern he was going to keep repeating. The team can't really call him out on something that a) isn't an issue for them anymore, and b) they don't know is an issue for him with Felicity. 

 

Yet another problem with this plotty plot plot breakup. I don't even think *they* know what they're going for here, apart from O/F breaking up, and Oliver finally deciding not to be a complete dumbass with the secrecy anymore. 

Edited March 26, 2016 by apinknightmare

[tarotx]

Diggle was mad at Oliver going at his family. It was not being a true partner that put Baby Sara and Lyla at risk. It wasn't about lying per say. Which in reality is Felicity's issue as well but does Diggle know that? While it would be nice if Diggle and Felicity could talk about things, they haven't had that relationship almost as long as they had it.

[Chaser]

But Oliver hasn't hidden anything from them recently, and the most recent incident of him doing that only affects Felicity. Oliver told Diggle that Felicity broke up with him because of the lie (which Diggle, unfortunately, understood the reasoning for), but she made it clear to Oliver that she ended it because she knew that hiding things from her was a pattern he was going to keep repeating. The team can't really call him out on something that a) isn't an issue for them anymore, and b) they don't know is an issue for him with Felicity. 

 

Yet another problem with this plotty plot plot breakup, haha.

'Call Out' was poor word choice. I get that their relationship is their relationship. But they know that Oliver was lying about it to Felicity and they know that that is behavior has happened again and again. I guess I don't need anyone to call him out for it, but I need something from them saying they get why Felicity has a problem with this behavior.

 

If that makes sense.

 

I just need this girl to get some support. LOL

Edited March 26, 2016 by Chaser

[Midnight Lullaby]

Diggle was mad at Oliver going at his family. It was not being a true partner that put Baby Sara and Lyla at risk. It wasn't about lying per say. Which in reality is Felicity's issue as well but does Diggle know that? While it would be nice if Diggle and Felicity could talk about things, they haven't had that relationship almost as long as they had it.

If they let them have a scene together we would know if he knows, LOL. It's ironic because the situation is the same at the end. Oliver kept a secret and didn't trust the team with it. Once again the fact that MM knew about it wasn't a problem. His secrecy put a child in danger.

Even if Diggle believed Felicity's problem was the fact that he lied it would still make sense for him to point out that Oliver's behavior was wrong, that he has to learn to trust and rely on his team when things get difficult.

It's a matter of principle. Either Diggle believes Oliver's behavior is wrong or he doesn't. It can't be wrong only if it affects his family and fine if it affects someone else.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[apinknightmare]

'Call Out' was poor word choice. I get that their relationship is their relationship. But they know that Oliver was lying about it to Felicity and they know that that is behavior has happened again and again. I guess I don't need anyone to call him out for it, but I need something from them saying they get why Felicity has a problem with this behavior.

 

If that makes sense.

 

Oh, I totally get it. My point was more that he understood why Oliver lied, and thus would be less likely to call him out for this particular thing, since he agreed with the reasoning for it, and as far as he knows it hasn't happened otherwise in a long while. Which was kind of why I thought his whole conversation with Oliver about "That's a lot to handle, and give her some time, she'll come around" was more about him thinking Felicity was in a state of shock after finding out Oliver had a kid in the way she found it out, rather than him thinking she should just get over the lie. I thought he meant she'd come around to him having a son, not that she'd come around to him being a liar. That's not really consistent with Oliver flat-out telling him the breakup was about the lie, but the breakup actually isn't because of the lie! So much of this stuff is inconsistent, haha. 

Edited March 26, 2016 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

Exactly - it's another case of characters answering unrelated stuff to what is being told to them. I don't know if that's because of editing or the dialogue was just that disconnected.

And, someone pointed this out already, but they should have been a little less subtle - when Felicity exclaims 'Let them help you' it seemed just another snarky line, instead it factored very much in her final reasoning to break up.

Anyway want to bet that

Laurel will offer words of wisdom as the only other one who dated him? Maybe she will point his tendencies to shut down out to him.

[Password]

Nah Laurel doesn't have a leg to stand on. She's the last person I'd ever take advice from concerning Oliver.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Nah Laurel doesn't have a leg to stand on. She's the last person I'd ever take advice from concerning Oliver.

That won't stop the writers IMO, LOL

[Password]

Well Oliver tends to not listen to Laurel and Felicity and Laurel have no discernable relationship this season so...

Really Felicity needs a coffee buddy.

[AyChihuahua]

Really Felicity needs a coffee buddy.

I volunteer as tribute!

[chaos is welcome]

The thing that baffles me is that Oliver keeping secrets is a problem for them all, not just for Felicity. They seem to have forgotten what happened with Thea in season 2 and with Diggle in season 3. It's in everyone's best interest that Oliver understands closing off when things get tough is wrong and he needs to work on that so Thea's advice to lie and Diggle's "she'll come around" make no sense after everything they have all been through because of the same mistake over and over again.

Just another example in a long line of "because plot," and the reason I am having a hard time being excited even about the spoilery thing coming up.

I miss old dig. The one who walked out on Oliver in s1 when Oliver didn't help with deadshot. Dig has done several things in s3/4 that seemed ooc for me. That plus helmet plus lack of felicity interaction has me so grr.

[kismet]

They definitely don't bother to give FS a thorough & concise point of view and for plot purposes she was basically allowed to say nothing about BMD unless it was snarky. They absolutely threw her under the bus to make their plot work. I don't think there was much rewriting to make OQ more sympathetic. The audience is just given more perspective about his situation and headspace.

As for Dig's reaction, what he said made sense to me. He probably thought it was the shock of the kid and not the withholding of the information since FS has been fine with OQ withholding & lying in the past. But it was nice for OQ to finally get around to telling Dig what the break up was all about. Clearly nobody was telling TA that O/F were off.

So if my two friends who loved each other broke up how & why O/F did, I probably would have told OQ something similar. Because invoking the "it will take time" or she needs time/space is what you tell your friends when they are heartbroken over a break. It's just something people say. Its not an effective time to start the lecturing on why it happened or how to make it better. That will probably come later. Which is what I anticipate will happen with Dig & OQ.

And as much as I miss and loved Delicity, it is clearly not as strong as the O/D bromance for at least two seasons now. It also seems less important to Dig & FS. It appears to me that FS did not turn to Dig - most likely because then the writers would have to write FS POV and they have avoided it during this for plot purposes during the past few EPs.

I love OQ but I do become mildly bitter that all the relationships that do not include him take a backseat. Especially when in this scenario it would strengthen the story to have more than just OQs relationships take precedent.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Articles about the Flash/Supergirl crossover are all about the amazing chemistry between Kara and Barry, teasing a superhero romance and James being jealous but people see romance only on Arrow, LOL. And this season of Daredevil had lots of romance, just like BvS does and every superhero show/movie ever made. The "too much" is really about the person involved than anything else. For me there was definitely too much romance in Arrow S1 because the love triangle between Oliver/Laurel/Tommy bored me to death and I considered quitting a few times, for example when they were all discussing about Laurel giving Tommy a drawer. But I had the luck to binge watch the first season and I had Candy Crush so I made it through.

[GirlvsTV]

The only part of the break-up from Felicity's side that lost me a bit was when she brought their Arrow work into it at the very end. I can sort of follow the garbled logic, but I wish they had left that stuff out all together. I think it would have been perfectly plausible for her to just have said it was too painful for both of them to keep working together. I also thought it was weird she brought up Lian Yu, but now I'm wondering if him revealing something about his island time will factor into their reconciliation?

I do think the break-up was informed by all of Oliver's past decisions to hide things, but even if it had only been this one instance I think Felicity's decision remains a valid one. He chose not share a major life altering thing from her, not the behavior one wants in a spouse.

I'm most bitter about the fact that I'm so desperate for Felicity to have someone in her corner at this point, I won't even mind if it's LAUREL.

Edited March 27, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[bijoux]

I'm most bitter about the fact that I'm so desperate for Felicity to have someone in her corner at this point, I won't even mind if it's LAUREL.

 

Whoa, now. Let's not get too crazy here. However, I would not entirely hate some self-awareness from Laurel. Felicity deciding to walk after being snippy with Oliver for a day or two was a really big contrast to S1 for me. When Laurel certainly had reasons to be pissed at Oliver, yet what was maddening was that she remained in his orbit. Felicity, on the other hand chose to extract herlsef from the situation and that environment, something that - to me - reads as healthier for both parties. So, Laurel going, shit, I could have/should have done that to save myself the aggrivation would be okay in my book. My favorite Laurel moment, bar none, is her telling Lance about Oliver getting another girl pregnant when they were together. That read as honest and self-aware, and had that type of reaction been more typical of Laurel, I would certainly have warmer feelings towards her.

[Angel12d]

I'm most bitter about the fact that I'm so desperate for Felicity to have someone in her corner at this point, I won't even mind if it's LAUREL.

 

Yeaaaaah....I don't know how I feel about that. LOL. While it would be nice to have someone supporting Felicity, I guess I find it uncomfortable because of the O/L history. And unless the scene was cut from 416

it looks like Oliver will be talking to Laurel about his relationship with Felicity, at least there was one in the promo from a few weeks ago.

 

If there was a F/L scene of support, I guess it all depends how it's written/acted. It could work. It could also make me cringe with embarrassment. IDK.

 

If Diggle isn't gonna offer any support, they should use Lyla. I think we're supposed to believe that they're all close anyway and it would be nice to see Lyla again. Plus Diggle/Lyla are supposed to be O/F in a few years so she has that experience and understanding. I really don't want anything beyond one scene. Just something, you know?

Edited March 27, 2016 by Angel12d

[GirlvsTV]

I just really, really want someone who isn't Felicity to lay it all out for Oliver (and the audience). Someone to tell him, "Look, you kept something major from her, this isn't the first time, if you want her back SHOW her you can change."

And I don't care who says it at this point. I'd expect Digg to be the one to pile some sense on Oliver, but after the last ep he seems to have caught Oliver's stupid disease. So, if Laurel serves him some Truth Tea and then gives Felicity some positive reinforcement for her decision, I'm fine with that.

ETA: I mean, I doubt this will happen, which also makes me bitter. For some reason the writers seem to want both Oliver and Felicity to be justified in their actions (Oliver for lying and Felicity for breaking up with him). However, it seems like they are setting it up so that Oliver will be the one to do something to win her back, which would indicate he was at fault initially. The whole thing is really muddled. I just want it to be over with.

Edited March 27, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[apinknightmare]

It's manufactured drama for the sake of breaking them apart and not even good manufactured drama at that.

Arrow forums on the other hand have devolved into nothing but complaints about Felicity/Olicity.

It seems like you read the forum as much as you watch the show, so I'll clue you in: people here know it's crappy manufactured drama.

And we thank you for your contribution!

[tangerine95]

The contrived manufactured drama is that they had Oliver lie in the first place and the dumb illogical reasons they gave to justify his lying. Felicity's reaction and breaking up with Oliver the way she did is the one part I think makes sense in the whole storyline.

[Password]

Especially when she supposedly asks her mother to put up with secrets for a healthy relationship.

This is exactly why I HATED that Felicity defended Quentin's lies. It seemed like the writers deliberately had her defend Quentin so that it could be called back in future when Oliver's stupidity came to light.

Donna didn't catapult after Felicity told her this though. It still took Quentin being completely honest with her for them to move forward.

These writers. -_-

[tangerine95]

I didn't take that as Felicity defending his lies. I took it was her seeing Donna wants to be with Quentin and knowing why he's lying and that Felicity is hiding similar stuff herself so she told her mother to give him a chance to explain.

It still took Quentin being honest to get them back together, it wasn't Donna deciding to be okay with lying.

And Felicity did listen to Oliver and pretty much said she understood why he lied but isn't willing to stay with someone who might lie to her again if he finds it necessary and convinces himself he has too.

[Chaser]

I'm so bitter no one brings kool aide to this cult.

[dtissagirl]

Am I not mocking the show enough, guys? I can step it up.

[apinknightmare]

I didn't take that as Felicity defending his lies. I took it was her seeing Donna wants to be with Quentin and knowing why he's lying and that Felicity is hiding similar stuff herself so she told her mother to give him a chance to explain.

It still took Quentin being honest to get them back together, it wasn't Donna deciding to be okay with lying.

 

She did defend it. After she told Donna that Lance might've had a good reason for lying, she said:

 

"Maybe he's doing it to protect you, because he loves you. And you need to return that love with a little bit of trust." 

 

Quentin decided to be honest with Donna, and that's why Donna decided to get back with him. Felicity was just asking her to trust him, not hold out for the truth. It does make sense for her to do it based on the fact that, like you said, she knew what Quentin was hiding and since she was hiding the same thing, made her feel okay about telling Donna to trust him. But it's still a really unfortunate viewpoint to give her considering two episodes later she's breaking up with Oliver for hiding things from her. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by apinknightmare

[tangerine95]

Yeah i agree its dumb to do it that way. But I guess it kinda makes sense to them since they decided to have Felicity understand why he lied and pretty much forgive it and make the break up about him not including her even after the lie came out.Tbh i think the fact that he lied just because a random one night stand that hid a child from him told him he has to is an even better reason for a break up than all that he doesn't know how to be a partner stuff but I guess they want us to ignore that ugly part of the storyline.

[dtissagirl]

If this show were better written, I could see them trying to contrast Felicity telling Donna to trust Lance with the fact that Felicity herself has massive trust issues. She doesn't practice what she preaches, and having Oliver break her trust should be an opportunity for the show to explore that.

But they're setting up Oliver for a change way way way more than they're setting up Felicity for a change, because this show is not great at multitasking.

[Password]

I actually think it will be brought up tbh. I thought that was the purpose of Felicity defending Quentin's lie in an episode so FULL of anvils.

[apinknightmare]

I actually think it will be brought up tbh. I thought that was the purpose of Felicity defending Quentin's lie in an episode so FULL of anvils.

 

I think the only way it might possibly be brought up again is once Oliver has done his grand gesture of sharing something with Felicity that he might've kept from her, Donna will use that to help convince her to give him another chance. And that would definitely make me feel better about the whole thing, since then it'd have a purpose. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

I hope so, but *I* have trust issues with Arrow, haha. They should be exploring Felicity's feelings about her father with anvilistic gusto, so we in the audience could be hit over the head with her projecting her abandonment issues onto Oliver, but alas.