OUAT vs. Other Fairy Tales: Compare & Contrast

[tennisgurl]

Oh, and don’t forget the first one gave us Mals start of mild evilness with a rather questionable rape analogy! Because women! Yeah, that movie was not my cup of tea.

[Camera One]

For all fans of that Other Savior, the full "Aladdin" trailer is out!

Edited March 12, 2019 by Camera One

[Writing Wrongs]

I didn't realize it was a musical remake. Ugh.

[KingOfHearts]

I'll admit that trailer is a lot better than the first one. Will Smith is more palatable when he's not in the blue makeup. I've never seen such a bad miscast for Jafar, though. Aladdin and Jasmine look pretty bland, but OUAT might have them beat there.

[Camera One]

I like this trailer more too.  It looks visually quite nice.  It looks like they are going to have Jafar tempt Aladdin with riches and not in prison disguised as an old man.  I did like the line the Genie had about only changing Aladdin on the outside but not changing anything on the inside.  There is room in the film to redeem him a little more than in the animated movie.

[KingOfHearts]

Saw Captain Marvel. It had McKenna Grace in it playing a young Carol Danvers. (She's young Emma from OUAT.) It seems like she's been cast in a ton of stuff lately.

Remember when A&E thought strong independent women needed to be stoic warrior types? The same thing seemed to be happening here. I really can't blame Brie Larson, since it's obvious she was working with what she was given. A lot of her dialogue was cringy. Her character really doesn't develop. She starts out as a "strong independent warrior" and ends as a "strong independent warrior", in the same vein as Merida, Mulan, and Dorothy. She does get a few vulnerable moments to keep her from being insufferably, and I didn't hate her, but writers seem to keep thinking they have to go that route in order to do strong female leads. In most cases, it makes characters downright unlikable. Thankfully, they stopped just shy of that in this film. It's just sad that a lack of creativity steers characters that way.

(Flagging for spoilers, though it's really not much of a spoiler.)

Spoiler

The movie had this moment where a mom goes off to do something potentially life-threatening, and the daughter urges her to go in order to "set an example". It made me think of how that was Robin's excuse for going to the Underworld with Regina. I really don't like that reasoning, because you're risking leaving your child parent-less in order to do something you don't have to do. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I just watched the first "Wreck-It Ralph" movie.  There was so much cleverness in the movie.  I was thinking how "Once" also had the advantage of travelling into a different realm at any time, but they didn't have much fun with it.  In some ways, "Wreck-It Ralph" was "Toy Story" with arcade game characters when the kids were not looking.  The "bad guys" support group was fun... it's too bad "Once" never had that.  The Queens of Darkness + 1 pity party didn't count.  I did get a little bored in the middle of "Wreck-It Ralph" with the extended hi-jinx in Candy Race Land and I got a little annoyed with Penelope.  Jane Lynch's voice was too distinctive and that took me out of that character for a while.  At the end, I didn't understand why there was a beacon in Candy Race Land like there was in the first person shooter game.  Or why Candy King villain guy was thanking Ralph for becoming a virus and how he turned part-insect.  I was thinking about Wreck-It Ralph coming to Storybrooke and wrecking things, but basically that was Tiny in "Tiny".  

[KAOS Agent]

On 3/16/2019 at 6:36 PM, KingOfHearts said:

Remember when A&E thought strong independent women needed to be stoic warrior types? The same thing seemed to be happening here. I really can't blame Brie Larson, since it's obvious she was working with what she was given. A lot of her dialogue was cringy. Her character really doesn't develop. She starts out as a "strong independent warrior" and ends as a "strong independent warrior", in the same vein as Merida, Mulan, and Dorothy. She does get a few vulnerable moments to keep her from being insufferably, and I didn't hate her, but writers seem to keep thinking they have to go that route in order to do strong female leads.

To be fair, the character has no memory of her prior life. She was basically a blank slate warrior. The world building wasn't all that clear on her life other than that she was training to become a warrior and having weird dreams. Whether she had a life with friends (were there other trainees she bonded with?) and a way to express herself and live a life beyond being a strong independent warrior was not clear. Was it all training and emotionless existence all the time? The main point was that she was an outsider without a history. They didn't show her outside of her warrior life. And they stressed that she needed to control her emotions because reasons. I don't think her being shown acting that way was meant to be a positive thing. It's a pretty crappy existence. But let's not lie, fleshing out her character's current life wasn't their priority. They have a brief setup and need to get to the action sequences ASAP.

Spoiler

It was never clear to me whether Carol Danvers did entirely regain her memories - at least not until the very end. She saw all those pictures of herself and her good times with her friend, but if she had no real memory of it, there's no way to connect and be anything other than uncomfortable.  She did seem to loosen up quite a bit by the end. She dropped the leash on her emotions and seemed less robot like and more human. Plus, the whole movie took place over a few days at most, so it's hard to expect that much change.

It's a bit like Emma and her parents after the curse ended. When first encountering Emma on the street, Snow and David are super excited to see her, but Emma is not so keen even though she knows who they are. Snowing love their daughter and remember all their hopes and dreams for her, but Emma has an entirely different mindset and all she is is uncomfortable and stiff. While she's pretty stoic about it all and it's upsetting to Snow that she isn't happy, that's a realistic reaction to the news that the curse was real and Snowing are her parents.

I think that when there are reasons for why a character is standoffish, it's less about sticking to a strong independent woman trope and more about a reflexive self-protective tendency to not let anyone see your vulnerabilities. 

[Camera One]

I went into a children's bookstore today while I was waiting for someone.   Like any good "Once" viewer, I went immediately to the section on fairy tales.  Two books prominently displayed were "Not One Damsel in Distress: Heroic Girls From World Folklore".  Those stories looked interesting.  There weren't well-known characters but it would have been wonderful fodder for "Once" if the Writers actually cared about fairy tales/folktales.  

The other book was called "Power to the Princess: 15 Favorite Fairytales Retold with Girl Power".  I was curious about this one so I flipped through.  One chapter was called "Belle the Brave".  I looked at the ending and she still married the Beast, so it couldn't have been that different. 

Then I looked at "Sleeping Beauty"... Aurora was cursed by the "Cloud Fairy" when she wasn't invited, and at the end of the story, the "Cloud Fairy" was the one who lifted the Sleeping Curse she put on Aurora.  The "Cloud Fairy" said this, "I am so sorry.  I felt so left out and I just wanted someone to know what that feels like.  But you've shown me that we don't have to hide what makes us different.  We can help each other - all we have to do is ask" and then Aurora gives her a hug.  Isn't that a total ripoff of the horrible "Maleficent" movie? 

I will type out the last sentence of the story since it's inspirational.  "Aurora and Jewel (the Cloud Fairy's real name)... were pioneers in creating a place where everyone was encouraged to be themselves and help others to be their best selves.  And in this kingdom, united by compassion, where everyone made space for one another and celebrated differences, they really did live happily ever after."  LOL.  I didn't have time to look at "Snow White" but I shudder at how that one turned out.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Camera One

[Camera One]

A great announcement everyone! Apple's streaming service Apple TV+  and the original shows including "Amazing Stories" were announced, and Steven Spielberg discussed the show at the event yesterday (around 14 min in video).

Quote

Steven Spielberg described one episode - "We want to transport the audience with each episode.  Like the WWII pilot whose plane magically travels through space and time from the past to the present-day.  Who will he meet?  Can he return?  Does he want to?  What happens if he doesn't?  

That does sound compelling.  Now, how much can you explore in one episode?  Not very much, but that's the extent to which Adam and Eddy are capable of fleshing out a concept, LOL.  And yeah, expect none of those questions to be answered, or at least answered in a very very very very very very shallow way.

Quote

Steven Spielberg: It's the universal human trait to search for meaning - so in these disconnected stories, we think the audience will find that one compelling narrative that will make the first season of "Amazing Stories" into a single thematic experience for them.

That is pretty accurate in regards to Adam and Eddy's hit rate and perfect for their inability to plan out an arc.  Maybe the viewer will find ONE episode compelling.  Or compelling enough.  How can finding one episode compelling result in a thematic experience?

Edited March 26, 2019 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

That is pretty accurate in regards to Adam and Eddy's hit rate and perfect for their inability to plan out an arc.  Maybe the viewer will find ONE episode compelling.  Or compelling enough.  How can finding one episode compelling result in a thematic experience?

At least they won't have a chance to contradict the theme one episode at a time, and there should be fewer continuity errors.

[KAOS Agent]

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

Quote

Steven Spielberg described one episode - "We want to transport the audience with each episode.  Like the WWII pilot whose plane magically travels through space and time from the past to the present-day.  Who will he meet?  Can he return?  Does he want to?  What happens if he doesn't?  

That does sound compelling.  Now, how much can you explore in one episode?  Not very much, but that's the extent to which Adam and Eddy are capable of fleshing out a concept, LOL.  And yeah, expect none of those questions to be answered, or at least answered in a very very very very very very shallow way.

Nothing like doing what's already been done before. There's a movie out there where a 1980s air craft carrier goes back in time to just before Pearl Harbor was bombed. With the ability to wipe out the entire Japanese fleet, should they do it? How do they affect the people they meet? It's not a tour de force by any means, but it was a fun movie to watch and it did have some surprising depth to it. I think you get less of that in an hour long show. I'm not sure that Once's writers ever truly made me care about a new character in just one episode. "Hat Trick" came pretty close and dealt very well with some complex concepts all while sticking to the overall theme running through S1.  Sadly, it was not penned by Horowitz and Kitsis and I can't think of a single other episode of Once that managed to do what Spielberg claims "Amazing Stories" will do.

[daxx]

@KAOS Agent I can think of an episode that made me feel for a new character, but not the character they intended me to feel for. The Crocodile, I felt bad for Hook by the end. I know the writing said I should feel for Rumple but I didn’t. I empathized with Milah’s desire to get away but I would have appreciated her more if she’d taken her son of course, I could never make that choice, but I totally get her options were extremely limited by society and the age. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

Nothing like doing what's already been done before. There's a movie out there where a 1980s air craft carrier goes back in time to just before Pearl Harbor was bombed. With the ability to wipe out the entire Japanese fleet, should they do it? How do they affect the people they meet? It's not a tour de force by any means, but it was a fun movie to watch and it did have some surprising depth to it. I think you get less of that in an hour long show. I'm not sure that Once's writers ever truly made me care about a new character in just one episode. "Hat Trick" came pretty close and dealt very well with some complex concepts all while sticking to the overall theme running through S1.  Sadly, it was not penned by Horowitz and Kitsis and I can't think of a single other episode of Once that managed to do what Spielberg claims "Amazing Stories" will do.

The Final Countdown! Dad and I love that movie and watch it all the time. Its funny and fun and yes there's depth to it.

[Camera One]

Is anyone watching "Dumbo" this weekend?  I'll probably wait for DVD release as usual.  I wanted to watch the "Mary Poppins" sequel but it's hard to find anyone who shares my childish tastes for entertainment, LOL.

It seems to have middling reviews from critics as Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes in the low 50's.

[Shanna Marie]

44 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Is anyone watching "Dumbo" this weekend? 

The cartoon version freaked me the hell out (okay, so I was five), and this one looks creepier, and I seldom seem to make it to the theater, anyway, so I'm thinking no. I didn't see Mary Poppins, mostly because I just didn't get around to it.

[Camera One]

Dumbo had underwhelming box office results, compared to recent live-action remakes like "Beauty and the Beast", "Cinderella" and "The Jungle Book".  Articles here and here.

No one has pinpointed the true reason for "Dumbo"'s poor performance.  Keep in mind this is the first live action remake released since "Once Upon a Time" ended.  Clearly, "Once" was the boost that those films needed.  We could have gotten a Season 8 where Dumbo terrorized all of the combined realms, and it would be up to Lucy to tame The Beast, with the help of Jacinda and Adult Henry, of course.  Meanwhile, we see a flashback where Regina was forced to give up her newborn baby with Dr. Facilier, in a scene that echos "Baby Mine".  We also find out that Hook was responsible for the fire at the carnival where Dumbo's mother perished, as a new threat comes to town - The Ringleader of the Circus, otherwise known as The Grey One, returning with the resurrected Mother Gothel.  

Edited April 1, 2019 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

I was reading an editorial/article today that was discussing the rather disturbing trend of Hollywood glamorizing mass murder and serial killers. This particular story was talking about a bunch of upcoming releases about Ted Bundy and Charles Manson as well as the Gianni Versace miniseries. He discussed how upsetting it was to find himself rooting for the psychopath and how they manipulated things to make you like these horrible people. Zac Efron plays Bundy and he mentioned that they had Zac go shirtless multiple times in the movie just so everyone could see a hot and sexy Bundy.

What was interesting to me was that this writer went out to find what the victims' families thought of these movies. Sharon Tate and her unborn baby weren't redshirts who meant nothing. Her sister is disgusted with portrayals of the Manson Family as anything less than horrible villains. A childhood friend of Bundy's 12 year old victim is outraged at the glorification of Ted Bundy. She's tired of seeing her friend's murderer on TV or in the movies. He's so handsome and charming, he must have a good reason for murdering a little girl and lots of other young women.

The trend of making villains into misunderstood heroes or simply anti-heroes has been around in fiction for a while and now Hollywood is trying to do the same thing with real life villains. Reading the story brought to mind Once for me, especially the part about the victims' feelings. How ridiculous is it to think that anyone who committed such atrocities would ever be viewed as a good person or even accepted in general society by their victims? It may be all fiction, but when you take similar stories of real life villains and try to do the same thing as Once did in its fictional universe, you see that it's not even remotely close to reality. 

[Camera One]

A "Lady and the Tramp" live-action has been announced on Disney's streaming service.  

[KingOfHearts]

On 4/14/2019 at 8:46 PM, Camera One said:

A "Lady and the Tramp" live-action has been announced on Disney's streaming service.  

Let's hope it's another misunderstood villain story. The rat was just hungry and wanted to feed its starving children.

[Shanna Marie]

48 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

On 4/14/2019 at 8:46 PM, Camera One said:

A "Lady and the Tramp" live-action has been announced on Disney's streaming service.  

Let's hope it's another misunderstood villain story. The rat was just hungry and wanted to feed its starving children.

The Siamese cats are the real heroes.

[Camera One]

Wouldn't it be cool if the Tramp killed Lady's grandfather but it's all good because Lady is also not a true hero since she failed to keep a secret which got Rat's first love (the Siamese cats' sister) to be killed by the Siamese cats' mother who disapproved of the inter-species relationship and tried to kill Rat but killed her daughter instead.  

Edited April 21, 2019 by Camera One

[Camera One]

Disney's "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" experiences a surge in streaming after fire.

I wish the stage musical adaptation had been able to reach Broadway.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

Disney's "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" experiences a surge in streaming after fire.

I wish the stage musical adaptation had been able to reach Broadway.

I wonder how they'll handle the live action remake now. Hopefully something more sedate than, "pour the wine and cut the cheese".

Edited April 21, 2019 by KingOfHearts

[Spartan Girl]

I saw Dumbo yesterday and I thought it was pretty good -- at least better than what Tim Burton did with Alice in Wonderland. Yes, it was different than the cartoon, but the changes made sense: they couldn't have the talking animals, the storks delivering babies and obviously the infamous crows in the live action version. And Dumbo and his mom staying at the circus as the owners exploit Dumbo's flying wouldn't exactly go over well in this day and age either. It's better that

they get released into the wild this time

Plus, CGI Dumbo was adorable.

[Camera One]

"Game of Thrones" is so popular that I decided to look at the Season 7 episode titles from "Game of Thrones" and determine what they would be about if it were "Once Upon a Time" Season 8.  I don't watch "Game of Thrones" so I have no idea what those episodes were actually about.

Episode 1: Dragonstone - Lily enlists Henry and Jacinda's help to find her long-lost father Zorro.  They realize to find him, a new hero will need to pull the Disenchanted Sword from the Disenchanted Stone, and Henry really wants to be that Hero™. 

Episode 2: Stormborn - In flashbacks, we learn that Wish Hook was born during a storm and his mother was Mother Gothel, who's also Zorro's mother.  A reborn Mother Gothel, along with identical sisters Mother Mothel and Mother Frothel, arrive in the amalgamated Storybrooke-AllTheRealms-HyperionHeights.

Episode 3: The Queen's Justice - In flashbacks, we learn that Regina was mentored by Judge Claude Frollo and she was all set to become a Judge until she realized she had to fight against the sexism of the Courts.  We find out Cora sabotaged her promising career since she made a deal with Frollo, who turns out to be Zorro's father.

Episode 4: The Spoils of War - Tiana fights her greatest battle yet, against the Huns.  In Hyperion Heights, a rash of food poisoning is blamed on the spoilage of beignets.  Can Sabine keep her business license?

Episode 5: Eastwatch - We finally see a flashback where Zelena is 6 months pregnant with Robyn and meets The Wicked Witch of the East, who was dethroned by Glinda and her bosom sisters.  Unfortunately, Zelena blindly trusts East, who betrays her and turns into a dragon, and she's Zorro's sister, but she's thankfully defeated by Alice, Whook's daughter, who's 40-years-old in this episode.  Believe us, the timeline totally works.

Episode 6: Beyond the Wall - Emma makes a guest appearance and it's all about how she got Beyond the WALL™.  It's not really Emma, just a random blond lady since we couldn't get the original actress back.  She's from a third realm, the Unenchanted Forest.

Episode 7: The Dragon and the Wolf - Red makes a guest appearance and goes on an adventure with Dorothy, Merida, Lily and Pocahontas.  This episode has nothing to do with anything else in this season.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

Speaking of Game of Thrones, while I've frequently been annoyed at the dudebro writing that tends to pop up on that show, the last couple of episodes have done the sorts of things we kept wishing they'd do on OUAT and that A&E seemed allergic to.

I guess the equivalent to the situation would be if the season six finale had taken a couple of episodes to build up to the Final Battle with the Black Fairy and her minions and if the Black Fairy's curse had scattered everyone so they weren't all together and they were separated for years. They actually dedicated two episodes to character moments. The plot was more or less about preparing for the battle, but it was mostly the reunions among the characters who'd been separated, with them reacting to how they'd changed and talking about what they'd done. Then scenes between characters who hadn't interacted before but who had commonalities or other things about them that made viewers want to see them interact. Scenes with characters talking about what they want or need. Scenes with characters giving each other critical information and actually getting to see them react to the information. A character who did something awful in season one confessed to it and apologized to the one he'd wronged. There were two scenes in which a character gave another character information the audience already knew, but we got to see how the character gave the news and we got to see the other character react in the moment instead of the old "I have something to tell you" commercial break "OMG!" thing.

Basically, we saw all the scenes that usually happened during commercial breaks on OUAT or that got skipped entirely. They treated character interactions as though they were important. And although there have been a few complaints (probably from A&E), for the most part, the latest episode is getting called one of the best of the series.

[Camera One]

I don't know if "Game of Thrones" quality has declined over the years, but I guess a good series finale or final season is where the Writers are able to recognize some of the problems and to bring back the best aspects of the show from its early days.  A&E weren't able to do that at all in Season 6.  We didn't get to see Emma and Mary Margaret bonding again, which was a big appeal of the first half of the first season, at least.  They even doubled down on the spotlight on The Evil Queen and giving Rumple the love that he didn't deserve.  Nothing in "The Final Battle" was remotely satisfying.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I don't know if "Game of Thrones" quality has declined over the years, but I guess a good series finale or final season is where the Writers are able to recognize some of the problems and to bring back the best aspects of the show from its early days. 

I think the plot kind of lost track over the years, especially once they passed the parts in the published books, and there are some serious timeline issues. But they generally have been good about fitting character moments in among all the action, and that's ramped up lately, probably because they're trying to make it hurt even more when people inevitably get killed.

Still, what we've been given would be the equivalent of if, say, we got an entire scene of the Charmings and Emma having a conversation about how her life turned out and what they wish could have been on the night before her wedding/the Final Battle. Or if we'd seen a good, long talk between Hook and Belle in which she asked him for the full story of what happened with him, Milah, and Rumple because she's ready to hear it now, and we actually got the whole scene, including the way he told it, rather than having her ask, then commercial break, and then coming back to see her thanking him for the story. Or if we'd seen a scene in which Henry asked Hook about his father, and Hook told him stories about Bae in Neverland and then also told Henry about his grandmother. Or if we'd actually seen the reunion between Hook and Liam in the Underworld, with Liam learning what had happened to his brother since he died, and Hook being rather ashamed of the path he went down and the two of them hashing that out rather than seeing Liam at the door, then commercial break, then the aftermath of what must have been a long talk. And then a scene in which Regina confessed to Emma about murdering Graham and apologized, with Emma not quite absolving her, but saying that she needs Regina on her side to take on the Black Fairy, and they'll deal with it all later. And then maybe Robin and Snow run into each other while practicing archery and talk about their time as outlaws/bandits.

I know that all of this doesn't necessarily fit into the same storyline, but imagine getting that much character stuff in a couple of episodes as a way of building up to a climactic event.

[Camera One]

25 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Still, what we've been given would be the equivalent of if, say, we got an entire scene of the Charmings and Emma having a conversation about how her life turned out and what they wish could have been on the night before her wedding/the Final Battle.

I am thinking back, and I think we had lost all hope that anything like this would ever happen.  I mean, we still had HOPE, or we wouldn't have still kept watching, but this was asking for too much.

[andromeda331]

37 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I am thinking back, and I think we had lost all hope that anything like this would ever happen.  I mean, we still had HOPE, or we wouldn't have still kept watching, but this was asking for too much.

Season six made it easier for me to decide to quit. So much of it was so bad, boring, stupid, infuriating, dropped and didn't make sense. By the time we got to the wedding and final battle I knew both would have to be spectacular to make me stay. Season three finale spectacular which I knew wasn't going to happen. I hoped it would. But I knew it wouldn't be. I didn't like season five but thought maybe with all the bad it would still be worth it to watch my favorite characters Emma, Hook, and the Charmings. Season six cured me of that. It wasn't worth it to continue to watch my favorite characters for a few minutes here and there and continuing to get crappy stories. 

[KAOS Agent]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think the plot kind of lost track over the years, especially once they passed the parts in the published books, and there are some serious timeline issues. But they generally have been good about fitting character moments in among all the action, and that's ramped up lately, probably because they're trying to make it hurt even more when people inevitably get killed.

They were also running into the problem of having killed off all of the root-worthy characters. They needed some character moments to make the remaining characters more relatable and humanize them, as well as provide some lighter fare for what is a really dark show. Reunite characters who have been apart for years. Give some sort of happy moments before everyone inevitably dies in horrible ways.

Once never really understood that you need to return to things that the audience enjoyed in addition to the newer things. Why give the audience six different episodes pairing Regina/Emma instead of having an episode of Emma/Snow or Emma/David? Bring things full circle. Emma and her parents had years with some major issues. None of this was ever addressed. The writers simply told us in interviews that they loved each other and everything was great. How is that possible given the events shown on the show? There wasn't any down time for them to have even processed what happened much less to have gotten past it. An adventure with Emma and her parents containing some small character moments reminiscent of S1 would be a great way to show their relationship as it is today. 

[Camera One]

2 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

An adventure with Emma and her parents containing some small character moments reminiscent of S1 would be a great way to show their relationship as it is today. 

That was basically all I was asking for the last three and a half seasons.  Just one episode. 

[Camera One]

Aladdin TV spot:

[Spartan Girl]

Jasmine's outfits are so pretty.

I read the movie novelization so I have an idea what is going to be different. It's definitely more faithful to the original than OUAT -- not a high bar, but still.

[Kktjones]

I just saw Avengers: Endgame last night and it made me think about OUAT. Endgame and S6 were both the end of an era for both franchises. The writers knew they were losing certain actors moving forward, etc. I know the budgets and production capabilities were different, but - wow! Spoilers for those who haven't seen Avengers:

Spoiler

Now that's what I call a final battle! You had every character show up and fight! They all used their various strengths and tools. They worked together and in the end one of the heroes sacrificed themselves to defeat the villain. 

On OUAT, the final battle consisted of Emma and Gideon sword-fighting while everyone else stood around and watched. It was so incredibly lame I almost have to laugh when thinking about the comparison. 

[Camera One]

The "Maleficent" sequel trailer is out.

She seems evil in the trailer, but maybe she's playing Dark Swan, LOL.

[Writing Wrongs]

I'm looking forward to it. Michelle Pfeiffer!

[Camera One]

I don't watch "Game of Thrones", but the headlines about the penultimate episode are making me laugh.

Quote

Game of Thrones Fans Are Petitioning HBO to Remake Season 8 With "Competent" Writers

LOL, we should make a petition to remake the last 5 seasons of "Once".

Quote

Washington Post: Fans used to love ‘Game of Thrones.’ Now they just love criticizing it.

Been there, done that.

Quote

How 'Game of Thrones' became the worst possible version of itself in Season 8

I thought fans liked the show for its surprising twists, gruesome deaths and wanton violence, but now it's too much?  

[KAOS Agent]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I thought fans liked the show for its surprising twists, gruesome deaths and wanton violence, but now it's too much?  

I don't watch the show either, but I've seen it and know enough to laugh at what people are mad at. So much of the criticism is familiar to those who have been attached to other similar shows. Fans definitely do like the gruesome deaths and wanton violence. One of the biggest criticisms is that certain deaths were not gruesome enough. Something I will get on board with in the fan criticism is that given the horrific deaths of many characters in the past, it's annoying to not get to see people who've really earned a particularly nasty ending not get one.

Game of Thrones is obviously a much, much darker tale than Once, but many fans' feelings about Season 8 are similar to mine about Once's endings for horrible characters. People have been waiting years to see some of these characters finally meet their end and receive a just punishment and then they get the Game of Thrones version of Cora walking into the light. 

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

I thought fans liked the show for its surprising twists, gruesome deaths and wanton violence, but now it's too much?  

Basically it's a case of:

"This thing is so cool because it busts and subverts all the tropes."

Thing busts and subverts tropes.

"This thing sucks because it didn't do what I expected."

[Camera One]

A quote from the third article:

Quote

Game of Thrones forced you to identify with villainy rather than allow you the false comfort of believing only bad people do bad things.  As with Cersei, acts of unforgivable violence were contextualized by sympathetic character studies into trauma, misogyny, and the love for one's children. As a result, we saw how the most inhuman atrocities of war often come from the most well-intentioned places.

A&E tried to do this too.  Even heroes do bad things.  Rumple and Regina started off well-intentioned.  I'm sure "Game of Thrones" did it all a lot better, but I'm personally so sick of watching shows trying to do this.

[tennisgurl]

19 hours ago, Camera One said:

I thought fans liked the show for its surprising twists, gruesome deaths and wanton violence, but now it's too much?  

I certainly cant speak for all fans, but my issues with the show, and of many people I know, this season (and I have watched from the beginning, read the books, whole nine yards) has been super rushed, and it seems like the show runners have gotten bored with their show and just want it to be over, but while they had the ending planned, they didnt know how to get there, so they just started having characters act in ways that go against their characters, ignoring character development, and rushing from plot to plot frantically, especially in the last couple of episodes. Its not about "liking" darkness and gory deaths, I thought they were interesting and heartbreaking when they made sense within the story. This season, the darkness just seems over the top and random, like they are more interested in darkness, spectacle, and rushing to the next thing than telling a story. I am not one of the "get better writers" crowd, as I think it sounds rather silly and petty, but I can get the frustration that the fans are more invested in the show and its characters than the writers are. 

Which, sadly, sounds a bit familiar. 

[Camera One]

Article about how Netflix could perhaps learn from "Game of Thrones" and release episodes weekly instead of all at once for binge watching:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/17/netflix-should-take-a-cue-from-game-of-thrones-ditch-binge-watching.html

Quote

Fans get a reprieve between episodes to react to what happened and speculate about what’s to come.

You can so much more out of the show, like we did with "Once".  We could really squeeze each episode dry, slicing and dicing it with Excalibur and other mythical swords until it's exposed for the mess it was.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

I saw the clip for Prince Ali from the new Aladdin live action remake. It's okay. Will Smith is doing a fantastic job at putting his own spin on the Genie, but everyone else looks bored. It got me thinking about how the original movie was catered for animation. It doesn't always translate well to live action because it wasn't designed to. When the Genie sings, "strong as ten regular men definitely", Aladdin just sort of looks on. In the animated version, the Genie magically bulks him up and he lifts up ten regular men. But in the live action version, the crowd just sort of has to take the Genie's word for it. (And by their lifeless facial expressions, they don't seem to.) The whole number seems lackluster by comparison, much like "Be Our Guest", from Beauty and the Beast, which was supposed to be the showstopper.

Interestingly, OUAT's format is actually better for live action adaptations. The more low-key drama fits the live action medium well and doesn't need to conform to the play-by-play of the original material. The more cartoonish stuff, like broadway musical numbers and special effects, don't have to be castrated as much. OUAT could be its own thing with less expectations. Even the Frozen arc, which had the most pressure to as close to the source material as possible, worked on the small screen because the focus was put on more grounded aspects of the movie. (Namely, the human characters and their inner conflicts.) It was wise to drop Olaf and the musical numbers. 

In a strange way, I actually prefer OUAT's way of adapting fairy tales over Disney's. It was more nuanced and had the freedom to try different things. I'm not saying OUAT always adapted things well (it certainly didn't in later seasons), but the format itself worked in the favor of what it was trying to do. In retrospect, I really liked how S1 incorporated fairy tales into a more adult setting. It didn't shove icons down your throat. It was more subtle while still capturing the main ideas behind each story. In later seasons, the writers would get the visuals right but would miss the point of what they were trying to adapt. That's not to say stuff like Frozen was bad, but it still captured the intent of its origins. 

I really have no interest in seeing Disney regurgitate its own movies. There isn't much of a reason to remake something verbatim in live action if animation does the job better. Aladdin and The Lion King both depend on animation to really work. 

[daxx]

29 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I really have no interest in seeing Disney regurgitate its own movies. There isn't much of a reason to remake something verbatim in live action if animation does the job better.

Honestly the only Disney animated movie I’d like to see live action is Treasure Planet. Mostly because I’d like to see an update of Treasure Island I suppose.

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, daxx said:

Honestly the only Disney animated movie I’d like to see live action is Treasure Planet. Mostly because I’d like to see an update of Treasure Island I suppose.

I think Hunchback of Notre Dame would be good if they got rid of the gargoyles and made it grittier like the source material. Make it PG-13.

[Camera One]

9 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I saw the clip for Prince Ali from the new Aladdin live action remake. It's okay. Will Smith is doing a fantastic job at putting his own spin on the Genie, but everyone else looks bored. It got me thinking about how the original movie was catered for animation. It doesn't always translate well to live action because it wasn't designed to. When the Genie sings, "strong as ten regular men definitely", Aladdin just sort of looks on. In the animated version, the Genie magically bulks him up and he lifts up ten regular men. But in the live action version, the crowd just sort of has to take the Genie's word for it. (And by their lifeless facial expressions, they don't seem to.) The whole number seems lackluster by comparison, much like "Be Our Guest", from Beauty and the Beast, which was supposed to be the showstopper.

I've liked Will Smith in the clips where he's talking to Aladdin, but he seems really stiff to me in the opening of "Prince Ali".  As you said, that song is really suited to animation... the genie apparating here and there really added energy to the song.  Will Smith's hand gestures just seemed awkward.  Since they didn't want to replicate the original sequence (they could've tried using CGI), they needed to come up with something more creative to give the same sort of energy to the song.

Maybe Aladdin isn't supposed to be as confident in this one, so he didn't try to show off during the sequence and seemed uncomfortable with the attention?

I'm still excited for the movie since the set design and cinematography seems very pretty.  I hope they try to go a bit deeper into Aladdin's psychology than the "Beauty and the Beast" remake, which was alright but felt like a pale imitation.  I actually thought that movie required more changes, so I'm hoping for that from "Aladdin". 

I would prefer Aladdin to come clean to Jasmine and they try to take down Jafar together.  

Warning to anyone in the theatre.  If the word "Savior" is used anywhere in the movie, I'm going to go into a fit of laughter.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Camera One

[Camera One]

I was rewatching the animated "Aladdin".  Jasmine says, "If I do marry, I want it to be for love."  That reminded me of what Charming said in his Season 1 centric, "When I marry, I want it to be because I choose to spend the rest of my life with someone I love."  It was nice to have the guy be the hopeless romantic.

[Camera One]

After finishing the movie, I wonder why A&E weren't able to create "grounded" versions of the characters like they did for "Frozen".  Instead of the clunker versions they created in Season 6.  I mean, I know why, but I mean hypothetically, it could have been done.  

In the movie, there was a nice theme with some possibilities to build on, with all three characters - Aladdin, Jasmine and the Genie feeling trapped in their own circumstances.  Aladdin learned that he had worth.  I found it interesting when Jafar said to him, "Without the genie, boy, you're nothing."  I almost expected him to go all Emma and say "I was never nothing!"  

"Aladdin" had some of the major elements of the classic fairytales.  Jafar masquerading as an old man like The Evil Queen masquerading as an old crone.  Genie turning Aladdin into a Prince and Abu into an elephant was very reminiscent of the Fairy Godmother changing Cinderella and her mice for the ball.  And of course Aladdin fighting Jafar as the Snake was similar to Prince Philip fighting Maleficent, whose thin features was probably an inspiration for Jafar's look (they both carry a staff as well).

Much like "Beauty and the Beast", the animated version was so well done that it would be practically impossible to top with a straight-up replay of a live-action.  Though it could still be fun to watch, like seeing a play with a different cast.  I thought the Aladdin Broadway musical was quite enjoyable despite having much of the same sequence of events/songs.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Camera One