OUAT vs. Other Fairy Tales: Compare & Contrast

[Spartan Girl]

Anyone else think Emma's "I am the Savior" speech during the duel with Gideon reminded them of Goku's "I am the Hope of the Universe" speech in the Funimation dub of Dragonball Z?

[tennisgurl]

You know, I just finished my second viewing of the new season of Sense8, and its so damn amazing to watch a show with a big ensemble cast where the writers know how to use their cast, and give everyone something to do, while also having an over arching narrative. The show has eight main characters, almost all of whom live in different parts of the world, and most of them have decently sized supporting casts of friends, family, and enemies, and the show has, with even less episodes than Once has ever had, really gives me a feel for all the characters, and allows them to grow and have their own arcs, and (especially in the second season) puts the characters together in new combinations. The second season also added new characters and villains, but kept them in the supporting category, and while they added flavor to the show, none of them took over. Its amazing how easy they make it look, especially considering how much Once struggled with their ensemble, and keeping up with their supporting cast (and basically everyone not named Rumple or Regina), especially when they are shooting in eight different locations using local actors and crews. It can be done, show, just you didn't do it! *

*If your in a post Once funk, I highly recommend Sense8, as long as you don't mind language and nudity and some relatively mild violence. If you can get through the first three episodes of the first season (which has a ton of painful exposition, and some rather stereotypical characters and stories) its a super exciting and epic show, with themes of hope, love, and the importance of connection and family in the face of personal trauma and loss and societal pressure, with lots of action, humor, likable characters, and romance, things that Once used to have, but really didn't by the end. Like, none of the main heroes give one single solitary fuck that the main villain has a family he loves, they still hate his nasty, murderous ass. It only has two seasons so far on Netflix, so its a pretty quick binge, and I would recommend it every day of the week. The second season is even better than the first! And it has LGBTQ couples that are in love and have actually known each other for more than two days and get more screen time than one episode!

Edited May 15, 2017 by tennisgurl

[InsertWordHere]

Seconding the love for Sense8. In fact, I am also doing a series rewatch to cleanse OUaT from my palate. All of the eight(!) main characters are just so likable, as are most of their supporting loved ones. Even the foil for my favorite relationship on the show is likable. 

[tennisgurl]

I could write long, deeply embarrassing fangirl ramblings for why Sense8 is amazing and how it succeeds where Once broke my heart for ages @InsertWordHere! I'm just amazed at how they made me love all the characters, and made me root for them, flaws and all. And, even crazier, I actually ship all the cannon couples! Its madness! Of course my favorite couple is the most angsty one (because that's how I roll) but I love them all so much! Its weird to love a show where I love everyone.

[InsertWordHere]

Same same same,

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Of course my favorite couple is the most angsty one (because that's how I roll) but I love them all so much! Its weird to love a show where I love everyone.

especially this. Oh that ending!

[tennisgurl]

Oh my God that ending! 

Spoiler

My poor babies! *cries forever* WHY @InsertWordHere WHY?!?!?

[Inquirer]

12 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Anyone else think Emma's "I am the Savior" speech during the duel with Gideon reminded them of Goku's "I am the Hope of the Universe" speech in the Funimation dub of Dragonball Z?

Damn it, I've been trying to block that from my mind for years!  Thanks, A&E, thanks a bunch.

[Camera One]

If A&E were in charge of Lost.  

"Lost": Season 7 premiere... Jack's long-lost daughter boards a plane, which crashes on an island.

[legaleagle53]

On 4/23/2017 at 4:14 PM, Camera One said:

I just watched "Saving Mr. Banks" and I can't say I liked it too much.  I didn't find Travers, nor Walt Disney all that likeable (though maybe they weren't supposed to be, I couldn't really connect), and the flashbacks felt a bit forced. Was Travers really all that moved by the Mr. Banks redemption in the movie?  I don't see what changes Disney DID make to satisfy Travers other than Mrs. Bank's first name.

That's not why she was crying.  She was crying because she HATED the movie and thought Disney had completely butchered the story she wrote.  It's why she categorically forbade Disney to make a sequel and even had it stipulated in her will that no American was ever to be involved in any production based upon her works ever again.

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

If A&E were in charge of Lost.  

"Lost": Season 7 premiere... Jack's long-lost daughter boards a plane, which crashes on an island.

They WERE in charge of "Lost" -- it was their creation!

Edited May 18, 2017 by legaleagle53

[InsertWordHere]

12 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

 

They WERE in charge of "Lost" -- it was their creation!

They were scriptwriters for Lost. It was the creation of Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse. 

[KingOfHearts]

There seems to be a tendency to take a side character, blow up their (usually few) traits, and then give their own movie or focus. The character is usually comedic or chews a lot of scenery. It's a trend particularly in the Pixar sequels. Cars 2 was a disaster because Mater was never designed to be a complex protagonist (his character development in the film is non-existent), and the plot had no real relevance to him. However, Finding Dory worked well because Dory was never too wacky to be unbelievable, and the story was extremely important to her. With Pixar, all their films are character-driven. Because of that, it's critical that their characters are likeable and multi-faceted.

The characters that get in your face need to be in smaller doses. The Evil Queen is one of those. While a piece of cake is delicious, eating a whole cake would be overload. The same can be said of Sparkly!Rumple, Zelena, or any of the Big Bads. The Storybrooke versions try to balance it out, and they're grayer so they're much more tolerable. However, after a while, even they got flanderized.

Edited May 21, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

9 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

The characters that get in your face need to be in smaller doses. The Evil Queen is one of those. While a piece of cake is delicious, eating a whole cake would be overload. 

She's like eating a plateful of sour grapes.

I think for a full movie to work for a supporting character like a sidekick or villain, there has to be more to explore while maintaining the core of the character.  Woobifying a villain doesn't work in most cases because it feels forced (eg. Maleficent movie).  That's no longer the villain we loved so much in Sleeping Beauty.  In that way, it's easier to build a movie around a sidekick.  I've heard some speculation about this for Lefou, after the new Beauty and the Beast movie.  I don't know if that would work.  To me, even he has more potential than a second Maleficent movie.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

My local newspaper's review of the new Pirates movie has a passage that sounds a lot like it's describing this show. I found it amusing, so thought I'd share:

Quote

 

Dead Men Tell No Tales has so much going on that even it seems to forget which thread of the plot it's holding at any given moment.

For example, a sea witch character is introduced out of nowhere to provide key information to a couple of other characters (who seek her out as if she is well-known and important). Then she just ... vanishes. As if the filmmakers forgot about her.

Another newcomer has a surprising connection to an old character -- a connection that comes out of left field and feels forced at best, almost as if the writers were afraid to just let a new face stand on its own without being related to a familiar one.

And the trident? Little more than a MacGuffin. The characters are definitely headed toward it, but when it's brought up, you have to say, "Oh, right. That thing."

Another problem: Salazar and his men are supposedly freed from the curse when Sparrow "gives away" his iconic magical compass, which conveniently happens near the start of the movie (this happens in ridiculous fashion, but less ridiculous than the method in which it eventually returns to him). There is no narrative justification given for why the curse on these undead men is broken by giving away the compass, nor how Salazar would know it would behave like that.

 

It sounds like these screenwriters went to the same writing school as A&E.

[KingOfHearts]

I started reading Game of Thrones. (The books.) It's been nagging me - this is what Emerald City was trying to be? It's not a masterpiece akin to Lord of the Rings, but at least some of the characters are sympathetic. There's some likability and nice moments that make it even less bleak than Once Upon a Time. It just baffles me. I'm not that far into it, but I was expecting it to be more depressing and graphic from the beginning. I'm sure it'll get worse, but it's different from what I expected.

I'm not a huge fan of the writing style. Other than the names, the format is very simplistic and colorful wording is scarce. A lot of phrases are repeated numerously and at times a bit modernized.

Edited May 27, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

8 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm not a huge fan of the writing style. Other than the names, the format is very simplistic and colorful wording is scarce. A lot of phrases are repeated numerously and at times a bit modernized.

That's surprising.  I haven't read them, but that's not what I would have expected given the genre.  

Given the stuff I've heard about the series, I'm not sure I want to read and get invested in characters who will end up dead anyway.

[daxx]

I just couldn't get into it. I tried but it bored me.

[Shanna Marie]

32 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm not that far into it, but I was expecting it to be more depressing and graphic from the beginning. I'm sure it'll get worse, but it's different from what I expected.

Oh, just wait.

It took me a long time to get into that series, like more than a decade. I got an advance copy of the first book, before it was officially published (which means I have a first edition, I guess). I tried reading it then, but I couldn't get into it. All the jumping around to different points of view was jarring, so I never was able to attach to any of the characters. I don't think I made a deliberate choice to stop reading it. I just put it down and didn't get around to picking it up again. I didn't start watching the TV series until after the first season, when I watched an episode on demand, and ended up bingeing the whole season. Then I finally went back to the book between seasons and read the whole series. There are some characters I care about, but I've kind of gone cold about it because I don't dare get emotionally involved with anyone in that series. I'm mostly curious about how it will all work out now.

[Camera One]

I tend to read a lot of classic novels, but when I have occasionally read contemporary popular books, I've been surprised how simplistic the writing for some of the "blockbuster books".  Back when "The Da Vinci Code" book was all the rage, I decided to read it, and I was surprised it was written at the reading level of a 15-year-old.  Every chapter ended with a cliffhanger, and there was the typical jumping from one perspective to another... that technique tends to work better on TV shows than books.  If the other perspective is boring, it makes you want to quit the book, whereas on TV, it's just less work to sit there and watch.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Back when "The Da Vinci Code" book was all the rage, I decided to read it, and I was surprised it was written at the reading level of a 15-year-old

Once you get past the weird names, it reads like a youth novel. Very much 15-year-old readability. 

Quote

All the jumping around to different points of view was jarring, so I never was able to attach to any of the characters.

Much like Once Upon a Time's centric format, there's a lack of focus. It's a string of character beats contained in separate vacuums. All the characters come with a ton of baggage you have to be aware of to understand them. I usually prefer characters that start straight forward, but get more complex over time. Like Emerald City, the writer chooses to withhold important background information for reasons.

Edited May 27, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I was reading a slightly more positive review of the latest Pirates of the Caribbean movie, and this part struck me:

Quote

It didn’t become evident until On Stranger Tides how important Will Turner (Orlando Bloom) and Elizabeth Swann (Kiera Knightley) were to the series’ DNA. If the powers that be assumed Pirates of the Caribbean was all about Cap’n Jack, they were wrong. The straight man is always as important as the lunatic and the removal of Will and Elizabeth from the story left Cap’n Jack stumbling around (figuratively as well as literally). One of the best improvements made in Dead Men Tell No Tales is to restore the balance. The “new Will” is Will and Elizabeth’s son, Henry (Brenton Thwaites).

I think A&E forgets that.  And now they have a Season 7 with the three colorful ex-villains.  It remains to be seen whether the other Henry can stand up to the task of playing the "straight man" on "Once". 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I think A&E forgets that.  And now they have a Season 7 with the three colorful ex-villains.  It remains to be seen whether the other Henry can stand up to the task of playing the "straight man" on "Once". 

Emma was the perfect "straight man" of the series, up until 3B. After that, she wasn't much different from everybody else. Original Recipe Henry hardly fits that archetype, so if he's playing that role in S7, there's going to have to be major changes.

I remember Emma's WTF expressions so well. I miss them. "The Wicked Witch? Wait... she's real too?!" You'll notice the series became much less grounded after S3. The changes to her character were one of the big reasons why, imo.

Edited May 28, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

It remains to be seen whether the other Henry can stand up to the task of playing the "straight man" on "Once". 

I'm afraid they'll do something weird like turn Hook into the "straight man." Not in the sense of being the newcomer reacting to things, but he is the only continuing character we know about who has no magical abilities. Regina has magic, Rumple is the Dark One, and Henry is the Author. Hook's just a guy.

ETA, since the fourth Pirates is on TV now ... they kind of had a "straight" man in the missionary guy. The problem was that they weren't really clear on who the protagonist was. Jack was the central character who got the most screen time, but he can't really be allowed to change, as the wacky, colorful character, so he's not truly the protagonist. The missionary was the one who really had a character arc, but he didn't get enough development to actually be the protagonist and be all that interesting. In the first three movies, it wasn't so much that Will and Elizabeth were the straight men, but that they were the real protagonists of the story, they had strong character arcs, and they were treated like protagonists, with Jack providing the color.

With Once, we now have Rumple as a colorful character who isn't allowed to change all that much, Regina as a colorful character who changed because they declared her to be changed but who won't be allowed to be any different going forward (like they couldn't stop her from being her usual snarky self even when they removed her dark side), and Hook, who has changed a lot, but may not have much more potential change in his future. Henry will be our protagonist, finding his belief again, or whatever. The outsider, "WTF" perspective isn't mandatory, if the character's growth and change is handled well.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Shanna Marie

[Inquirer]

Even Jack Sparrow had something of a character arc in the original trilogy.  In movie 4 he was just pinballed around by the plot, and it's even worse in the recent movie because he's not even clever or funny this time around and is being written as a complete drunken fool ala Wish Realm Hook.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Inquirer

[Rumsy4]

I think I'll skip the latest PoTC movie. The series has been gradually getting more and more convoluted and less interesting. 

[Camera One]

Maybe "Once" can tackle "Pirates of the Caribbean" and re-vitalize it.  After all, now, there's a character named Henry on it too.   And A&E loved the first movie.

Quote

Interviewer: Capt. Jack Sparrow? 

Both: [Exasperated sighs] 

Interviewer: You both had the same reaction to that.

Kitsis: “We loved [Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl] so much. But unless we get Johnny Depp, how could we do Jack Sparrow?”
Horowitz: “We can’t do it. He’s Jack Sparrow.”
Kitsis: “Unless Johnny Depp [wants to appear on] Once Upon a Time, then we will write Jack Sparrow all day!”

Edited May 29, 2017 by Camera One

[Spartan Girl]

I think a lot of the Disney direct to video sequels subscribe to the OUAT style of writing -- i.e. retconning. 

I know a lot of people liked The Lion King 2, but I wasn't one of them. First and foremost because it didn't need no stinking sequel. And the premise wasn't very clever: first movie=Hamlet, second=Romeo and Juliet, okay, we get it!

Like I said before, the whole plot was a retcon, just randomly adding lionesses that happened to be loyal to Scar that weren't even mentioned in the first movie. Plus -- I have to say it -- Kiara was a whiny spoiled brat, and it drove me crazy that she never even was shocked or angry when it was revealed that Kovu had been planning to kill her father. Yes, he was brainwashed and yes he had a change of heart. But that still doesn't change the fact that he'd been lying to them and helped set up the fire that almost killed her just so that he could "save" her and worm his way into Pride Rock. None of that seems to matter to her. She automatically takes his side and runs away to be with him: a guy she met once as a cub and has known for a few days. Seriously?!

Arguably, Juliet did the same thing. But at least Juliet had an excuse of having terrible parents. Simba's only crime was being too overprotective, and after everything he went through, could anybody blame him?! And his distrust of Kovu was justifiable, given the fact that he started out as an assassin.

Phew. Had to get that off my chest.

[Shanna Marie]

13 hours ago, Inquirer said:

Even Jack Sparrow had something of a character arc in the original trilogy.  In movie 4 he was just pinballed around by the plot, and it's even worse in the recent movie because he's not even clever or funny this time around and is being written as a complete drunken fool ala Wish Realm Hook.

Jack is definitely a case of Flanderization. He was a real character in the first movie, and then they saw what Johnny Depp did with the character and wrote him to be even more that way in the second movie, and even more in the third, but he still had the grounding of being a real character who happened to be played in that zany way. In the fourth movie, it was basically an excuse to let Johnny Depp be crazy, and they forgot to write a real story for him or for the other characters.

I have to confess that these movies are a guilty pleasure for me. If one of them is on TV, I have a hard time resisting watching at least part of it, though I didn't see the fourth one at the theater and have only watched it all the way through once. I don't know whether I'll see the new one at the theater or wait until it's on cable non-stop. I was always more interested in Will and Elizabeth's story, with Jack as an entertaining, and sometimes mildly annoying, seasoning to the story, so I'm less interested in the fourth movie. I think the missionary character had promise, but he was underdeveloped.

[KingOfHearts]

I've noticed that in any sort of fantasy show or franchise, things always get to be more BS later on. More retcons, contrivances, and vague solutions such as saving the day with the power of "love" or "belief". OUAT was always campy with the TLKs and such, but it used to be grounded in the worldbuilding. Emma kissing Henry to break the curse was not an ass-pull. We knew from the beginning that she was the Savior. Now, Henry kissing Emma to resurrect her, that was unprecedented and out of nowhere.

Lost was hokey as well in the final season.

[KingOfHearts]

One of my biggest problems with BTVS is probably Buffy herself. She's moody, she broods, and everything around her constantly bends to how she's feeling. If she's depressed, the world stops spinning. It makes sense because she is the main protagonist that goes through a lot of crap, but it gets old fast for me. Eventually it becomes a game of, "let's see how many times we can traumatize Buffy". First she's slated to die, then she's forced to kill her boyfriend, after that she has to leave her life behind to move to LA. Later she goes catatonic over losing her sister, and dies shortly after. As if that wasn't enough, she got dragged down from heaven. Anything spunky about her gets sucked out. Emma on OUAT is a similar case. She got rejected by or lost every person she met. All her boyfriends died in her arms. What reason does she have to hope? 

[ParadoxLost]

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 3:54 PM, KingOfHearts said:

I've noticed that in any sort of fantasy show or franchise, things always get to be more BS later on. More retcons, contrivances, and vague solutions such as saving the day with the power of "love" or "belief". OUAT was always campy with the TLKs and such, but it used to be grounded in the worldbuilding. Emma kissing Henry to break the curse was not an ass-pull. We knew from the beginning that she was the Savior. Now, Henry kissing Emma to resurrect her, that was unprecedented and out of nowhere.

Lost was hokey as well in the final season.

Its because every fantasy show has to up the ante in every story arc.  After a while, the writers inevitably escalate beyond their writing capability.  So the premise is more silly and contrived and the solution is more ridiculous and unearned (see the 100 death wave) as the series progresses.

OUAT basically had to have Emma make the ultimate sacrifice of her life because it was the final battle and not very impressive in build up or execution.  Then they had to have Henry TLK a resurrection because they needed something more than a regular TLK because it had been done.  Although it wasn't unprecedented.  They had Snowing TLK resurrect earlier in the episode so it wouldn't seem like it was an ass pull out of nowhere.  That made it even worse.

[InsertWordHere]

Sense8 has been cancelled. Netflix has definitely lost points with me due to both this decision and the OUaT deal. @tennisgurl, this is probably the most upset I have ever been about a show's early cancellation. And they left it on a cliffhanger too! 

[Camera One]

It sounds interesting and I want to see it, but it's disappointing to know it ended in a cliffhanger.  I guess the "new media" treats shows and fans just like the traditional networks.  

[InsertWordHere]

@Camera One, when it ended on a cliffhanger I actually thought to myself that it must be coming back or they wouldn't have left things hanging like that. I should know better. It is a good show and I do highly recommend it. Maybe stop watching it 15 minutes before the end of the season 2 finale though. Sigh. 

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, InsertWordHere said:

Sense8 has been cancelled. Netflix has definitely lost points with me due to both this decision and the OUaT deal. @tennisgurl, this is probably the most upset I have ever been about a show's early cancellation. And they left it on a cliffhanger too! 

Badly done, Netflix! Badly done, indeed!

[InsertWordHere]

37 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Badly done, Netflix! Badly done, indeed!

This is the worst type of scolding we can give it! If only we could say this to Netflix, it would see the error of its ways, and then pronounce its love for us after worrying for a few days that we are going to marry Hulu Plus. Erm, I might have taken this a little too far. 

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

This is the worst type of scolding we can give it! If only we could say this to Netflix, it would see the error of its ways, and then pronounce its love for us after worrying for a few days that we are going to marry Hulu Plus. Erm, I might have taken this a little too far. 

At least we didn't call it caro sposo or shorten it to 'N'!

[tennisgurl]

@InsertWordHere I'm completely devastated by the cancellation, more than I've been devastated by a show in a very long time. I literally started crying when I read the news, that's how awful I feel. Netflix cancelling it after leaving on such a huge cliffhanger seems like a pretty huge Screw You to the fans.

That all being said, I still recommend the show, even with the now horrible cliffhanger, and I'm still holding out hope that they might give us at least a movie or something to wrap things up. There are like 30 petitions circling to get a third season or at least a special to give us closure, so I'm hoping they might throw us a bone. If nothing else, after dealing with years of infighting in the Once fandom, its heartwarming seeing the whole Sense8 fandom come together to fight for their show.

[TheGreenKnight]

I haven't seen Sense8 (I keep meaning to get around to it, but haven't yet). Sad that the first thought I had was, "Too bad it wasn't cancelled a year ago so Naveen Andrews could've come back as Jafar...."

[Shanna Marie]

51 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

Sad that the first thought I had was, "Too bad it wasn't cancelled a year ago so Naveen Andrews could've come back as Jafar...."

But wouldn't it also have been sad if Naveen Andrews came back as Jafar only to have a few cameo appearances before having a big confrontation with the heroes in which they talked a little while and he was then defeated by having a handful of dust blown on him?

[TheGreenKnight]

Well, there were a lot of characters that got very few episodes this season (Hyde, Zelena, Ariel, Cinderella), but I wasn't disappointed seeing them.

[tennisgurl]

Does anyone have any shows to recommend to me, now that my favorite show has been cruelly cancelled, and my former favorite show turned to utter ridiculousness and has decided to come back for a pointless reboot that I cant make myself care about? I need something to fill the hole in my heart!

[daxx]

@tennisgurl, have you tried Outlander or Black Sails? Timeless, A Series of Unfortunate Events, Stranger Things. There is a plethora of D.C. Comics shows on CW and they are all uploaded including the current season on Netflix, the Flash, Arrow, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow.

I actually can't recommend Timeless enough. Give it a go.

I just started watching Grimm, it's ok but I am just not getting into it. So if anyone else has suggestions I'd like to be tagged also.

[RadioGirl27]

Timeless is fantastic. And I love Orphan Black. Season 5 (the last one ?) starts in a few days.

[Shanna Marie]

It's entirely unrelated to anything like this series, but PBS just did an interesting "reality" series that I believe is still available on their website called "Victorian Slum House." A group of modern people who had ancestors who lived in the London slums during the Victorian era move into a re-created slum house to experience some of what their ancestors went through. The producers change the circumstances with each decade to show how things progressed. They convert the money amounts to modern terms and have to do the kind of work people might have back in that era. It's really fascinating, and what I enjoyed was how this group all came together to help each other. There were several families, and in one case it was the grandmother who wanted to do it, and her teenaged granddaughters were eager to do it for their Gran. They were really gung-ho about it all, diving into every task. I found myself wanting to know if these people kept in touch afterward because they all seemed to have a tight bond by the end of it.

I love Timeless, too, but I was bummed to find out they don't have the whole series on demand, just the first two and last four episodes.

Killjoys and Dark Matter should be coming back soon on SyFy. Killjoys kind of scratches the Firefly itch. Dark Matter has never really lived up to the promise of its premise for me. I guess you could say it's like the science fiction version of all the memory spells on Once -- a group of people wake up from cryosleep on a spaceship with no idea who they are, no memories of how they got there. They just remember whatever skills they have, but not how they got them. Then they have to piece it all together, figure out who they are and who they want to be. Unfortunately, I don't think they do enough with that, and they get into some rather tropey things, but it's okay for mindless summer viewing.

If you're looking for stuff that might be streaming or that's available on DVD, I was rather fond of Haven. It loses its way every so often, and the budget is obviously very low, but the acting is rather good and I love the characters. In a way, it's got a lot of parallels to Once -- a snarky blonde with mysterious origins who works in law enforcement comes to a small coastal town in Maine and learns that the town is under a kind of curse, and she may be the key to breaking the curse. One thing I did like was that the writers were well aware that the main draw was the characters and their relationships, and they really let the emotions hit and devoted time to conversations, in spite of all the action and drama. They're also good at showing the town life, with recurring townspeople characters. It's kind of what I often wish they'd let Storybrooke be, and there's quite a bit of humor about how disaster-prone this town is, with outsiders commenting on what a steal real estate is, until you look at what the insurance rates are.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

If you're looking for stuff that might be streaming or that's available on DVD, I was rather fond of Haven. 

I tried watching Haven, but I couldn't get past the first season. Maybe I have a short attention span (Once desensitized me), but I found it painfully slow. Then again, I had issues with the first season of Lost, but it got way more interesting in the second season.

Edited June 2, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

20 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I tried watching Haven, but I couldn't get past the first season. Maybe I have a short attention span (Once desensitized me), but I found it painfully slow.

Haven got really interesting and weird at the end of the first season. The first season was pretty much a paranormal procedural, just the weird case of the week, but it was in the last few episodes that they pulled the rug out from under you and you (and they) realized what was really going on. They did the kind of shocking twist that Once aspires to -- except their twists really were shocking, and they were properly set up (and they played fair with them, so you know they knew going in what was happening). Once you saw the twist, it made you want to rewatch the previous episodes because they became totally different with that new information, rather than ruining previous episodes, like some other show we could mention. I was pretty ho-hum through the first season of Haven -- I liked it because I liked the characters and the actors, and I liked the X-Files Meets Northern Exposure setup, but in the last few episodes of the first season it started getting really mindblowing. They did a slow burn on setting up the real plot arc.

[oncebluethrone]

I loved Haven. I remember reading the description on Netflix and going "Female FBI agent travels to a small Maine town with weird stuff going on? That sounds a lot like Once, I'm going to try this." 

[Souris]

If anybody never watched Farscape, I highly recommend it. IMO it has the best-handled genre ship ever and a super kickass heroine. I've been contemplating a rewatch this summer.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Souris

[Shanna Marie]

44 minutes ago, oncebluethrone said:

I loved Haven. I remember reading the description on Netflix and going "Female FBI agent travels to a small Maine town with weird stuff going on? That sounds a lot like Once, I'm going to try this." 

I saw the two shows the other way around, since Haven came on first, and I think I picked it up "live" on the third episode, after watching the first two on demand when I needed background noise for the physical therapy exercises I had to do for the frozen shoulder I had that summer. I hadn't watched the show because I'm not a Steven King fan, but decided to give it a shot. Then when Once came on a year later, I found myself going, "Hmm, tough blonde who grew up in foster care and doesn't know who her parents are comes to a cursed town ... where have I heard this before?"

Incidentally, Charles Ardai, the editor who published the original book and who suggested it as a TV series and then had a producer credit on the series and wrote at least one episode, is married to Naomi Novik, who won last year's Nebula award with a novel that was kind of a Once fanfic, "fixing" the Rumple/Belle story (with the serial numbers filed off so well that I didn't notice it at first, and blending it with a lot of Polish folklore). I was sitting with them at the Nebula banquet last year, and he was rather surprised when I fangirled all over him about the series. He said they really wished they could have done more with it because they had such a low budget, so the effects were really cheesy. Naomi and I assured him that it was the characters who were important. I got the impression she may have written some fanfic there, too, but I don't know if it's found its way into any of her published works.

[Souris]

Another thing I like to recommend, if one likes historical fiction, is "Cranford," based on Elizabeth Gaskell stories about a British village in the mid-1800s. There are some sad things that happen, but on the whole it's utterly delightful and diverting. Lots of humor. Judi Dench! Another good one based on an Elizabeth Gaskell story is "North & South" (not that '80s Patrick Swayze miniseries N&S!). Richard Armitage!

Edited June 3, 2017 by Souris