Iris West

[FurryFury]

I hear some saying they don't even want Iris to become a reporter? WTF? That's like saying you don't want Barry to be The Flash. Iris IS supposed to become a reporter - why wouldn't you want them to do that and hopefully do it right?

 

The thing is, Iris' interest in journalism wasn't set up well at all. I don't know comic book Iris West. I don't have any investment in her, and I don't have to - because TV Iris West is a different character. So if the writers couldn't set up her as a journalist well enough, I have the right to dislike this development. 

 

Let's turn this thread into a more constructive place. What would I do with Iris if I wrote for the show?

 

- Barry and Iris are BFFs. Nothing more. They grew up together, they have similar interests and tons of history. Show them, I dunno, watching their favorite movie. Playing a video game. Show their common friends. There would be some ship tease throughout the 1st season, with them clearly caring about each other but oblivious to any deeper feelings. In midseason or season finale, Iris finds out Barry is The Flash. It would force her to re-evaluate him and their relationship. With time, she may realize her feelings for him go deeper. Meanwhile, she would help The Flash with fighting crime, helping Barry himself understand how selfless and heroic she herself could be. They would bond on another level - not just as their past, everyday personas, but as heroes in their own right.

 

- Iris studies criminology, not journalism. Or, if they're set on her comic book profession (but then, comic book Dinah Laurel Lance was never a lawyer, so I'm not sure they are) make her actually interested in journalism and major in it. So we'd know this is something she's passionate about.

 

- And now things get more interesting. There was 1 single episode during the show's run - I don't remember which one exactly, I don't care about "The Flash" enough, I suppose - when I've suddenly had a feeling Iris has layers. That her interest in Flash has 1 big reason - she's obsessed with heroes. She NEEDS a hero. And it makes a lot of sense. I mean, her father is a cop - basically, a modern-day hero, as much as it's possible (at least, in the idealistic world of The Flash). This would explain her interest in Eddie, too. And it would tell something about Iris herself - something that, with time, could be developed in a number of intriguing ways. But it was completely dropped, so now I'm sure it was just my impression. The on-screen Iris is nowhere as deep as my headcanon, sadly.

Edited February 12, 2015 by FurryFury

[Oscirus]

The irony of the talk of an Asian female lead when Candice herself is half Asian is funny ( irony's probably not the right word but still).

 

I agree that the Iris-Laurel  comparisons are crazy when the only thing those two characters have in common is that they're love interests. I wish that Iris did have a comparable storyline to Laurel.

 

Here's the thing about Iris. They purposely made the character black in an attempt to appeal to a certain demographic then when said demographic actually supports her ( rather vigorously), the writers repay this by underwriting her even more.  How long do they think people are going to be patient before people start writing her off? There has to be more to Iris then "love interest."

 

If we're being honest, they destroyed Iris's origin story.  Her back story is the same as Barry's, her career aspirations are tempered by the fact that her father won't let her do anything dangerous ( but he can risk her life all day, apparently)  and her reporter career is just something she fell into and doesn't even seem that interested in. There's pretty much nothing left of the beloved comic book character other then her name.

 

Let's not even get into how the other character's treat her.  We just had Barry admit that he does nice things for her because he's hoping to get with her,  whenever Joe has a problem with her, he has Barry deal with her and the rest of the characters barely even acknowledge that she exists unless Barry's whining about her. Hell.l she gets along better with Felicity then she does with Caitlin or Cisco

 

Yet in spite of all this, I still like Iris. I really wish that Candice was a worse actor  so I could just write off the characterf and ignore her.

 

On a final note, whether people want to acknowledge it or not, Iris is comic book royalty. Yea, Lois Lane is obviously more famous as is Mary Jane Parker, but that's it.  Iris is the matriarch of a family of Flashes. That's a pretty big deal.

 

Off topic, the only show I can think of with an African American love interest for the Caucasian lead is Suits. I hope there's more but I don't watch enough TV to know.

[Lord Kira]

I wonder If Eddie is being kept background so we won't think poorly of iris for ditching him for Barry? (In whatever way they have planned for that to happen) I like Eddie a lot and I think he and iris made a nice couple. I just think they don't want us to think about them and judge iris as her attention wanders.

 

 

I already feel bad for Eddie. He's been shown to be a pretty good guy so far. Iris leaving him for Barry will make me care more about how this effects Eddie instead of how it effects her. A similar situation happened on Arrow with Oliver/Laurel/Tommy and it only made me love Tommy and make Oliver and Laurel look bad.

 

Iris is in a tough spot. Team Flash doesn't really need any more members, her job has been poorly handled and feels like Lois Lane-lite, we definitely don't want her damseled as the new Lana Lang, and she also  needs something outside of poorly handled romantic subplots. Something that doesn't make me go "Oh, and here's the love-interest's obligatory screentime" every time the scene switches to her.

 

I wouldn't have minded her becoming a television reporter, as I think some incarnations of Iris West have been. It would be something different than what we usually see on tv, and a good excuse for having her on scene when something big is going down. It would also be a fun way to introduce Snapper Carr, a popular DC Comics reporter.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Lord Kira

[Shanna]

Snapper car is a character? Lol!

Interesting thoughts lord Kira. I loved tommy and I honestly liked laurel best when she was with him (or Quentin). And yes, the that story made them all look bad and it certainly didn't make you root for Oliver and laurel!

But I think we see here another reason why we see laurel/iris comparisons. They aren't the same character, but they are written by the same show runners and in a lot of ways they are using the same playbook. I like him but Edie is not as charming as tommy, iris does not have a natural bitchy demeanor, there is no ichy sister swapping but they added a pseudo sibling dynamic instead... They fixed some of the other little issues but the bones are still there. The triangle nonsense is still there. The not knowing his secret identity part is still there.

I think if they were insistent on the romance thing, they should have 1. Kept the BFF stuff. I like that, they have good friend chemistry and that works for me. 2. Cut the Barry pining. Iris happy with Eddie, let Barry do some fun dating with Linda and other one offs, 3. Tell iris the truth early. That pulls her in organically. 4. Develop the romantic feelings on the show on both sides. 5. Tv reporter I could really see working if they had to go with journalism. If not, she could have been a medical person instead of Caitlin? And made Caitlin something more in physics/engineering which is a lot of what she does anyway. So iris could have helped Barry physically, as a friend. She could have been brought in on the secret and called when people showed up hurt at the hospital? I know that's probably been done too, but I think it would have fit nicely. Just my two cents.

[cynic]

I feel this way sometimes, too. I've said it too much already probably, but there are real, legitimate reasons to be frustrated with Iris as a character. I can even see legitimate reasons for hating some of her actions. I feel like people who are criticizing Iris are all being attacked because there's obvious racism mixed into some people's opinions of her. But, that's fandom for ya. You take the good, you take the bad I guess! ETA: Upon rereading what I just wrote I realize it's coming of a little "Not All Men," which is gross. Maybe I'm being too defensive. Sorry about that!

...

I don't think that "all" Iris critics are being attacked as racists anymore than I think "all" Iris critics are actually racist. I also don't think anyone is trying to "silence" her critics with false allegations of racism as someone else alleged. I'm not sure where those opinions are coming from because I don't see the evidence of those here.

I would hope that people who are offended by what they perceive as having racist motivations ascribed to them understand that it is just as offensive to be accused of having ulterior motives when pointing out possible racism.

I came here because I wanted to be able to discuss Iris, all aspects Iris. I believe her race does impact her as a character with the writers as well as with the audience. I've personally seen some ugly things directed at her since before the show even premiered in many different places. I haven't seen that here, but what I have seen is people's experiences and feelings being denied, belittled or insulted due to imagined motivations or defensiveness or being blamed for those experiences for having dared to use popular entertainment sites (I don't use twitter or Tumblr for the record, but thanks for letting me know I can't go there or I have to accept any kind of hate I receive). If you feel silenced, imagine how you would feel after a legitimate expression of a personal opinion that targeted no one here was called gross, or ugly, it laughable. Having said that I won't discuss it anymore, because it's just gotten overwrought. I'll limo myself to gender analysis, since apparently pointing sexism is somehow more legitimate.

By the way, I also have legitimate gripes with Iris' character.

[Shanna]

I think people on this site feel a little targeted because the discussions tend to go like this:

A: I don't like the way this journalism storyline is going.

B. I can not believe that people are saying iris shouldn't be a journalist! She is comic book royalty and Some people don't like this because racism.

That doesn't feel like a conversation about our opinions of iris.

Hell.l she gets along better with Felicity then she does with Caitlin or Cisco

That's because felicity is awesome! She is also the official seller of spin offs apparently but that's for another thread.

I think they will go somewhere with her soap opera mentor but not sure where...

Edited February 12, 2015 by Shanna

[FurryFury]

Exactly. If you don't like how fandom on other sites react to Iris, this probably isn't the place to complain about it, because fandom on this site clearly isn't racist or sexist. People just wish she had better writing.

[Iamsweetdee]

I don't think that "all" Iris critics are being attacked as racists anymore than I think "all" Iris critics are actually racist. I also don't think anyone is trying to "silence" her critics with false allegations of racism as someone else alleged. I'm not sure where those opinions are coming from because I don't see the evidence of those here.

I would hope that people who are offended by what they perceive as having racist motivations ascribed to them understand that it is just as offensive to be accused of having ulterior motives when pointing out possible racism.

I came here because I wanted to be able to discuss Iris, all aspects Iris. I believe her race does impact her as a character with the writers as well as with the audience. I've personally seen some ugly things directed at her since before the show even premiered in many different places. I haven't seen that here, but what I have seen is people's experiences and feelings being denied, belittled or insulted due to imagined motivations or defensiveness or being blamed for those experiences for having dared to use popular entertainment sites (I don't use twitter or Tumblr for the record, but thanks for letting me know I can't go there or I have to accept any kind of hate I receive). If you feel silenced, imagine how you would feel after a legitimate expression of a personal opinion that targeted no one here was called gross, or ugly, it laughable. Having said that I won't discuss it anymore, because it's just gotten overwrought. I'll limo myself to gender analysis, since apparently pointing sexism is somehow more legitimate.

I think I love you. Especially the last line. So incredibly and sadly true. 

[Lord Kira]

That's because felicity is awesome! She is also the official seller of spin offs apparently but that's for another thread.

 

 

Yeah, they use Felicity to prop up everyone in hopes that the fans will like them because Felicity does. Barry in s2, Ray, and now Laurel. The writers must think I"m stupid or something.

 

I think one major factor in the fandom's perception of Iris, is that many viewers have also watched Smallvlle and Arrow. They know how these other shows have handled the destined love-interests (Lana, Lois, Laurel) and have no faith that The Flash will do it any better. And let me tell you, after suffering 8 years of Lana I had little patience for Laurel even in the earliest of episodes. With Laurel living up to Lana's legacy, people have a right to be afraid about Iris.

 

Thankfully, Iris hasn't reached the Laurel-level of hate yet. So its not too late for the writers to turn it around and change the perception of her into a positive one. Plus, unlike Laurel, Iris has a pretty good actress playing her.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Lord Kira

[Sakura12]

No one said you can't discuss Iris here, but you are running around screaming racism when no one here is saying anything about Iris's race. If other places you go on are saying racist things about Iris/CP then mention that. Because it looks like you are calling us racist, when most of us are criticizing the writing of the character, not her race. I love that they hired Candice Patton to play Iris and Jessie L. Martin to play Joe and I love that they didn't whitewash Linda Park, like they did with Sin on Arrow. 

 

It's just my personal opinion that the lack of character for Iris has nothing to do with her race. They could've cast a White./Asian/Latina actress and she'd be in the exact same boat. All the women on both this show and Arrow are not written that well. Felicity is being shoved next to every character to make them likable or something, Sara was just a prop for Laurel, Laurel was just a love interest until everyone died so she could be a hero, Caitlin is Barry's maybe love interest and Iris is Barry's love interest. I'm not expecting any character growth for Linda because she's a place holder love interest.  

 

If I didn't see that pattern repeating on this show, maybe then I would consider Iris's race the reason she was being put in the background. However since Arrow's women are not written any better or treated any better, I do find it a gender issue. 

Edited February 12, 2015 by Sakura12

[Xander]

The lack of good writing may not be linked to her race on this show but some viewers think it is when you consider what happens on other shows like Twisted, TVD, Sleepy Hollow etc etc and it just makes people say, "Here we go again." That's where it's coming from. 

[Lord Kira]

All the women on both this show and Arrow are not written that well. Felicity is being shoved next to every character to make them likable or something, Sara was just a prop for Laurel, Laurel was just a love interest until everyone died so she could be a hero, Caitlin is Barry's maybe love interest and Iris is Barry's love interest. I'm not expecting any character growth for Linda because she's a place holder love interest.  

 

 

I do agree that the female characters aren't particularly written well, but for me there is a huge difference between Iris and Caitlyn. DP as Caitlyn may not be the best actress around, but she's serviceable and does her function on Team Flash well, and her storyline with Ronnie is pretty good. But the biggest thing that endears her to me is her interactions with Wells, Cisco, and Barry. Those friendships elevate the character for me and surpass the sometimes lackluster writing and acting.

 

I have yet to see anything like that from Iris. No particularly good function in the plot, and no relationships that pop. Heck, even her own father spends more time with Barry. We haven't seen Iris/Eddie interaction in a while, so I don't even remember if they have chemistry together or not. Considering that they are supposed to be engaged, we should be seeing them together instead of seeing Iris jealous over Barry.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Lord Kira

[Sakura12]

The lack of good writing may not be linked to her race on this show but some viewers think it is when you consider what happens on other shows like Twisted, TVD, Sleepy Hollow etc etc and it just makes people say, "Here we go again." That's where it's coming from. 

 

Never watched Twisted, stopped watching TVD after Season 1 and Sleepy Hollow is paying for that mistake. For those shows, there is How to Get Away With Murder, Scandal, Orange is the New Black and Blackish that have Black actors/actresses in leading roles that are not being marginalized. 

 

The EP's and the Network heads have admitted they are making this show and Arrow for the male demo. That is also what makes me go to it being a gender issue.

[wayne67]

On a more positive note I did like when Iris was doing Game Night with Barry when she was trying to get Barry to date Felicity. Eddie even got to be likeable as a non nerd who didn't know the name of a fictional ship on a movie that came out 30 years ago.

 

I want more of those interactions rather than Iris complaining to Barry that her mentor doesn't take her seriously because she has no journalism experience.

 

Characters complaining all the time are boring. I want her to do something.

 

Do you think they'll do something with that photo of The Flash sometime soon ?

[Shanna]

On a more positive note I did like when Iris was doing Game Night with Barry when she was trying to get Barry to date Felicity. Eddie even got to be likeable as a non nerd who didn't know the name of a fictional ship on a movie that came out 30 years ago.

That was probably one of my favorite iris scenes!! I was just about to post about that and then I got it mixed up with iris drooling over The arrow. Both of those scenes worked well. And hey there was zero jealousy just the fun BFF chemistry that I enjoy between Barry and iris.

[Xander]

Never watched Twisted, stopped watching TVD after Season 1 and Sleepy Hollow is paying for that mistake. For those shows, there is How to Get Away With Murder, Scandal, Orange is the New Black and Blackish that have Black actors/actresses in leading roles that are not being marginalized. 

 

The EP's and the Network heads have admitted they are making this show and Arrow for the male demo. That is also what makes me go to it being a gender issue.

 

HTGAWM and Scandal have Shonda Rhimes. Blackish is an African American show. I can't say much about Orange since I know nothing about it but I read somewhere that it was made with the intent to showcase the minority characters. 

[cynic]

No one said you can't discuss Iris here, but you are running around screaming racism when no one here is saying anything about Iris's race. If other places you go on are saying racist things about Iris/CP then mention that. Because it looks like you are calling us racist, when most of us are criticizing the writing of the character, not her race. I love that they hired Candice Patton to play Iris and Jessie L. Martin to play Joe and I love that they didn't whitewash Linda Park, like they did with Sin on Arrow.

It's just my personal opinion that the lack of character for Iris has nothing to do with her race. They could've cast a White./Asian/Latina actress and she'd be in the exact same boat. All the women on both this show and Arrow are not written that well. Felicity is being shoved next to every character to make them likable or something, Sara was just a prop for Laurel, Laurel was just a love interest until everyone died so she could be a hero, Caitlin is Barry's maybe love interest and Iris is Barry's love interest. I'm not expecting any character growth for Linda because she's a place holder love interest.

If I didn't see that pattern repeating on this show, maybe then I would consider Iris's race the reason she was being put in the background. However since Arrow's women are not written any better or treated any better, I do find it a gender issue.

I'm not running around screaming anything, but thanks for characterizing my the posts that I put a lot of thought into and tried to temper and make sensitive to others as hysterical ravings.

And I've talked about it not being here time and time again.

Edited February 12, 2015 by cynic

[wayne67]

That was probably one of my favorite iris scenes!! I was just about to post about that and then I got it mixed up with iris drooling over The arrow. Both of those scenes worked well. And hey there was zero jealousy just the fun BFF chemistry that I enjoy between Barry and iris.

 

I forgot about Iris eyeing up Oliver. I couldn't blame her for that, he is a well built millionaire, or former millionaire. I stopped watching Arrow a while back so I don't know whether Oliver is still rich or not.

 

I think Barry was beating up Arrow because he was being eyed up by his non GF.

 

I thought that was Barry at his worst.  Barry's jealousy is unwarranted and gross but that's a different subject entirely.

 

I miss Barry and Iris BFF scenes because they actually seemed like friends. Now they just seem to prop each other up when they do stupid things which I guess is a BFF thing too but it feels tiresome.

[Sakura12]

Since we've gotten way off topic from Iris. We should probably bring it back to her character. 

 

She either needs to be let in on the secret soon and either let her be a help or cause some conflict because her job is to report on him. I can't imagine she'd post anything Barry didn't want people to know. But that would also require them to deal with what they are doing with the Meta-humans and I don't think they thought that storyline through either. 

 

I've seen that she does have a storyline coming up, hopefully it's about her and not Barry. 

[Xander]

The Barry/Iris dynamic will get back on track when they get over this angst bit. The problem is we don't know how long they will drag it out. 

 

 

Do you think they'll do something with that photo of The Flash sometime soon ?

 

Hahaha. Another person who missed it. If you're referring to the photo Iris took, it was already used on the front page of her paper in "Crazy for you." 

Edited February 12, 2015 by Xander

[peachmangosteen]

On a more positive note I did like when Iris was doing Game Night with Barry when she was trying to get Barry to date Felicity. Eddie even got to be likeable as a non nerd who didn't know the name of a fictional ship on a movie that came out 30 years ago.

 

I loved that scene! 

 

Iris had much better writing before the mid-season finale. It's bizarre IMO how much of a change there's been in the second half. Maybe it's because they felt they needed to do the reveal of Barry's feelings early and then didn't really know what to do with Iris after that. I hope they fix it. Iris is actually my fave character on the show (Maybe tied with Eddie. LOL I love marginalized characters I guess!) so I just really wanna see better stuff for her.

[Shanna]

Hahaha. Another person who missed it. If you're referring to the photo Iris took, it was already used on the front page of her paper in "Crazy for you."

I am going to have to rewatch because I could have sworn she took the picture at the very end. Did he go see his dad after that?

Actually I'm not going to rewatch because I hate that episode so I'll just take your word for it!

Iris had much better writing before the mid-season finale. It's bizarre IMO how much of a change there's been in the second half.

I feel the same way. They've also marginalized Eddie these past few episodes. I think they probably think they've done good because they have her a new job but it's not really clicking at the moment. Edited February 12, 2015 by Shanna

[venusnv80]

The lack of good writing may not be linked to her race on this show but some viewers think it is when you consider what happens on other shows like Twisted, TVD, Sleepy Hollow etc etc and it just makes people say, "Here we go again." That's where it's coming from. 

Thank you. Things are not in a vacuum. 

 

But moving on...I am waiting to see where they decide to take Iris. I would like for them to at least explore what happened to her mom or have scenes with her father. It's like she is just floating around with nothing to tell us why she ticks. 

Edited February 13, 2015 by venusnv80

[Xander]

I am going to have to rewatch because I could have sworn she took the picture at the very end. Did he go see his dad after that?

Actually I'm not going to rewatch because I hate that episode so I'll just take your word for it!

Haha. He saw his father after the scene with Iris and Linda. 

 

Here's a screen cap -> https://i.imgur.com/nHT7PTN.jpg

Edited February 13, 2015 by Xander

[phoenics]

I didn't want iris to be a reporter because I've seen that character too many times and it feels to much like Lois lane to me, but if try are going to make her a journalist just make her consistent on her interest level and don't drop that story and give her this love interest stuff when journalism would fit better.

I do wish they would make her more consistent on the journalism stuff - I think we can agree that they aren't handling it well. I think that's part of the marginalization of the character - they don't seem to consider her a full fledged person and are being careless with how she's being portrayed.

As for Iris being a reporter - I think that's an integral part of the character - kinda like Barry as a CSI - and I don't think that can really be changed without losing part of the sola scriptura for the show.

[phoenics]

The irony of the talk of an Asian female lead when Candice herself is half Asian is funny ( irony's probably not the right word but still).

 

I agree that the Iris-Laurel  comparisons are crazy when the only thing those two characters have in common is that they're love interests. I wish that Iris did have a comparable storyline to Laurel.

 

Here's the thing about Iris. They purposely made the character black in an attempt to appeal to a certain demographic then when said demographic actually supports her ( rather vigorously), the writers repay this by underwriting her even more.  How long do they think people are going to be patient before people start writing her off? There has to be more to Iris then "love interest."

 

If we're being honest, they destroyed Iris's origin story.  Her back story is the same as Barry's, her career aspirations are tempered by the fact that her father won't let her do anything dangerous ( but he can risk her life all day, apparently)  and her reporter career is just something she fell into and doesn't even seem that interested in. There's pretty much nothing left of the beloved comic book character other then her name.

 

Let's not even get into how the other character's treat her.  We just had Barry admit that he does nice things for her because he's hoping to get with her,  whenever Joe has a problem with her, he has Barry deal with her and the rest of the characters barely even acknowledge that she exists unless Barry's whining about her. Hell.l she gets along better with Felicity then she does with Caitlin or Cisco

 

Yet in spite of all this, I still like Iris. I really wish that Candice was a worse actor  so I could just write off the characterf and ignore her.

 

On a final note, whether people want to acknowledge it or not, Iris is comic book royalty. Yea, Lois Lane is obviously more famous as is Mary Jane Parker, but that's it.  Iris is the matriarch of a family of Flashes. That's a pretty big deal.

 

Off topic, the only show I can think of with an African American love interest for the Caucasian lead is Suits. I hope there's more but I don't watch enough TV to know.

Guinevere on Merlin was another lead - but that was a BBC show and they seem more open to that sort of thing - but even then the hate poor Angel Coulby got was just awful. But the show runners NEVER wavered in their story and even took the time to stick it to the hateful fans with a few jabs during the run of the show.

As to Iris' backstory - I don't understand how she went from working on a PhD to working in a coffee shop. I know I've repeated myself on that so I'll just shut up. I thought originally they were going to have her working on a PhD in criminology and then she could end up becoming a crime reporter - but nooooooooo.

[phoenics]

I think if they were insistent on the romance thing, they should have 1. Kept the BFF stuff. I like that, they have good friend chemistry and that works for me. 2. Cut the Barry pining. Iris happy with Eddie, let Barry do some fun dating with Linda and other one offs, 3. Tell iris the truth early. That pulls her in organically. 4. Develop the romantic feelings on the show on both sides. 5. Tv reporter I could really see working if they had to go with journalism. If not, she could have been a medical person instead of Caitlin? And made Caitlin something more in physics/engineering which is a lot of what she does anyway. So iris could have helped Barry physically, as a friend. She could have been brought in on the secret and called when people showed up hurt at the hospital? I know that's probably been done too, but I think it would have fit nicely. Just my two cents.

I like your ideas.

Except one thing - just want to point out that Iris and Barry in the comics actually used to work together on cases. Him as a CSI and her as a reporter - that actually makes sense to me. It's Iris relating to Barry as Barry, rather than Team Flash relating to Barry only as Team Flash. I think this is one place where comic canon was actually superior to what we're seeing on the show with respect to Iris and Barry. It's only because the show came up with the "Team Arrow" concept that they've forced that same dynamic on The Flash, sadly disrupting the Barry/Iris dynamic that was easy and organic in the comic.

I think it just works better - to be honest, having cops, reporters, CSIs and The Flash involved in a "case" makes total sense. The Flash team is ancillary because they're helping The Flash. Having Iris as a full fledged reporter makes a lot of sense to me in integrating her into the crime of the week...

The show might eventually go there though - I don't think there is any reason to make Iris a "medic". Why? That's just forcing her into a direction that isn't necessary. What - Barry cannot have any friends unless they're science geeks? Why not?

[wayne67]

I do wish they would make her more consistent on the journalism stuff - I think we can agree that they aren't handling it well. I think that's part of the marginalization of the character - they don't seem to consider her a full fledged person and are being careless with how she's being portrayed.

As for Iris being a reporter - I think that's an integral part of the character - kinda like Barry as a CSI - and I don't think that can really be changed without losing part of the sola scriptura for the show.

 

Well now that Iris has taken a picture and it's ended up on the front page I'm sure her job as a photographer at the Newspaper is safe...

 

Iris can be a reporter but it seems like her reporting arc has jumped from 0 to 120 mph with barely any buildup and I for one have whiplash.

[cynic]

Guinevere on Merlin was another lead - but that was a BBC show and they seem more open to that sort of thing - but even then the hate poor Angel Coulby got was just awful. But the show runners NEVER wavered in their story and even took the time to stick it to the hateful fans with a few jabs during the run of the show.

As to Iris' backstory - I don't understand how she went from working on a PhD to working in a coffee shop. I know I've repeated myself on that so I'll just shut up. I thought originally they were going to have her working on a PhD in criminology and then she could end up becoming a crime reporter - but nooooooooo.

I give the Merlin folks tons of credit. I had to stop reading comments about the show. It got pretty bad.

I hate Iris' phd/waitress/reporter thing. It's a mess. I wish she could have just been a rookie cop or something. Plus, the reporter thing is just too removed from the rest of the story. Also, I don't like reporter stories. Shrug.

[Shanna]

I like your ideas.

Except one thing - just want to point out that Iris and Barry in the comics actually used to work together on cases. Him as a CSI and her as a reporter - that actually makes sense to me. It's Iris relating to Barry as Barry, rather than Team Flash relating to Barry only as Team Flash. I think this is one place where comic canon was actually superior to what we're seeing on the show with respect to Iris and Barry. It's only because the show came up with the "Team Arrow" concept that they've forced that same dynamic on The Flash, sadly disrupting the Barry/Iris dynamic that was easy and organic in the comic.

I think it just works better - to be honest, having cops, reporters, CSIs and The Flash involved in a "case" makes total sense. The Flash team is ancillary because they're helping The Flash. Having Iris as a full fledged reporter makes a lot of sense to me in integrating her into the crime of the week...

The show might eventually go there though - I don't think there is any reason to make Iris a "medic". Why? That's just forcing her into a direction that isn't necessary. What - Barry cannot have any friends unless they're science geeks? Why not?

I wasn't actually thinking a medic, I was thinking doctor and the I thought she was too young so maybe more like an np? Obviously that ain't happening so it's kind of a moot point!

After multiple superman movies and Lois and Clark and however many seasons of smallville I watched, I am just massively over the leading lady journalist and I strongly associate her with Lois. So comics be damned I wish they had chosen something else.

[phoenics]

I loved that scene! 

 

Iris had much better writing before the mid-season finale. It's bizarre IMO how much of a change there's been in the second half. Maybe it's because they felt they needed to do the reveal of Barry's feelings early and then didn't really know what to do with Iris after that. I hope they fix it. Iris is actually my fave character on the show (Maybe tied with Eddie. LOL I love marginalized characters I guess!) so I just really wanna see better stuff for her.

Considering that the decline in time and focus for Iris coincided with odd OOC ship teases for SnowBarry and Barry being revealed as a "nice guy trope" I'm not sure it's that they don't know what to do with her - it feels more like a deliberate choice.

It would be easy to have Iris go full tilt into being a reporter - and they could have done that well, but they chose not to.

It would be easy to have Iris working with Barry on cases - and they could have done that well, but they chose not to.

It would be easy to show us Iris' pov - and they could have done that well, but they chose not to.

A lot of people keep mentioning that this is just sexism and I'm sure a lot of it is - but Lana, Laurel and the other characters people mentioned as being hated in fandom, etc., STILL got TONS of screen time. TONS. Iris? Iris gets almost no screen time. And in the moment when her time drastically reduces, another character gets much more, plus ship teases and more focus, and some weird OOC stuff from Barry.

I wonder sometimes if the show runners think CP isn't enough of a draw as Iris - so they've hedged their bets. Perhaps they're listening to a lot of the comments on tumblr, FB and twitter (I guess those matter after all?).

[Tangerine]

Guinevere on Merlin was another lead - but that was a BBC show and they seem more open to that sort of thing - but even then the hate poor Angel Coulby got was just awful. But the show runners NEVER wavered in their story and even took the time to stick it to the hateful fans with a few jabs during the run of the show.

 

I found the complaints about Angel Coulby as Guinevere on Merlin so COMICAL at times. People were saying Gwen shouldn't be black because of REALISM on a show about a wizard with a talking dragon in it. But Iris is running into the same issues as Gwen in that they're both getting sidelined and pegged as love interests and that's it. In the earlier series, Gwen was involved in her own storylines, she had a family and other relationships and her romance with Arthur was hinted at but didn't really start ramping up until series 2. (I wasn't a fan of how rushed their romance was but that's another topic for another thread.) Once the romance was established though, it seemed that was her sole purpose on the show and it was just so frustrating.

 

I don't think criticism for Iris' character is solely based on race, but given the pattern of how PoC continue to be sidelined on different shows, it really is a problematic trend and I think a fair point to bring up. Diggle on Arrow is getting sidelined as a 'sage advice giver' when he used to actually be an important part of the show. The writers don't know how to write for women or PoC because they keep thinking of them as women and PoC. Think of them as people with their own perspectives and thoughts and feelings. We've seen very little of that from Iris, who is supposed to be an important part of Barry's life. Her presence on this show is important in terms of diversity, but not only if she continues to exist in a vaccuum and only called upon when necessary.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Tangerine

[driedfruit]

Did you guys see Grant's tweet today?

Apparently Iris is gonna have a very emotional scene in whatever episode they're filming right now (19 I think).

[phoenics]

Did you guys see Grant's tweet today?

Apparently Iris is gonna have a very emotional scene in whatever episode they're filming right now (19 I think).

Well, hopefully it gives more insight into her pov.

I'm exhausted, lol.

[Shanna]

I could write a book about all the issues on Merlin and Anything Gwen would be pretty damn low. (I'm still mad Merlin never got new clothes) The historical color blind casting is interesting and may take a minute to adjust to but the weirder thing was the progression from servant to princess. Angel was perfectly lovely though.

The iris thing is frustrating though because pretty much all of my iris/barry relationship issues were on the Barry side (and some still are) and just writing that I don't enjoy. But now that the jealousy arc seems to be starting up I am going to be getting more frustrated with her I think. Because she has a boyfriend. It's just all so hacky and cw.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Shanna

[phoenics]

I could write a book about all the issues on Merlin and Anything Gwen would be pretty damn low. (I'm still mad Merlin never got new clothes) The historical color blind casting is interesting and may take a minute to adjust to but the weirder thing was the progression from servant to princess. Angel was perfectly lovely though.

I'm still smarting on how the show ended tbh. Kinda felt like they didn't deliver what the show had been building up to for so long.

The iris thing is frustrating though because pretty much all of my iris/barry relationship issues were on the Barry side (and some still are) and just writing that I don't enjoy. But now that the jealousy arc seems to be starting up I am going to be getting more frustrated with her I think. Because she has a boyfriend. It's just all so hacky and cw.

It's quite soapy, I agree.

[driedfruit]

I could write a book about all the issues on Merlin and Anything Gwen would be pretty damn low. (I'm still mad Merlin never got new clothes) The historical color blind casting is interesting and may take a minute to adjust to but the weirder thing was the progression from servant to princess. Angel was perfectly lovely though.

 

Merlin was amazing for what it was, cheesy crack. And no, servant turned princess was far from odd in the show's universe. The fact that people are so hung up on that when the show revolved around far crackier things just shows a certain mindset.

 

Once the romance was established though, it seemed that was her sole purpose on the show and it was just so frustrating.

 

That's not true. Gwen might have lost her father in season one, but she still had friendships and a role outside of Arthur. Her character arc in the final season was about her growing into a queen.

Edited February 13, 2015 by driedfruit

[phoenics]

I always liked that they still kept Merlin and Gwen as friends... she was more than just a love interest - she was constantly shown as a confidante of Arthur and a trusted advisor... Even after she and Arthur married.

I'm going to put my hopeful hat back on and hope for the best when it comes to Iris.

[Trini]

Iris can be a reporter but it seems like her reporting arc has jumped from 0 to 120 mph with barely any buildup and I for one have whiplash.

 

I'm willing to let that slide because it seems they realized their mistake and are making corrections. We'll see how well they do with her from here on out.

[peachmangosteen]

The iris thing is frustrating though because pretty much all of my iris/barry relationship issues were on the Barry side (and some still are) and just writing that I don't enjoy. But now that the jealousy arc seems to be starting up I am going to be getting more frustrated with her I think. Because she has a boyfriend. It's just all so hacky and cw.

 

This. It's just so tiresome and makes both Iris and Barry look bad. Why do I even continue to get involved in CW shows? I know how they are!

[phoenics]

I only watched Smallville peripherally... and I watch Arrow - but I tend to DVR it and catch up later... I kinda missed the whole first season and ended up binge watching to catch up for S2 (halfway through)... so I missed a lot of the fandom stuff - and also got to watch a lot at once.

It's hard to argue with you about how the CW treats women upon closer inspection.

Edited February 13, 2015 by phoenics

[venusnv80]

That tweet 

looks like we may get some POV for Iris and that makes me happy. One can only hope that its Iris centric.

[cynic]

...

Iris before the mid season finale, never blew Barry off or made him feel like a 3rd wheel when she was with Eddie. She routinely did things with Barry and hung out with him and spent time with him. They still hung out as besties. When Iris came into an area with Barry and Eddie - she NEVER made Barry feel like he was barely there - she always spoke to him and treated him as her BFF. The ONLY time she ever treated him awkwardly was when Barry told her they needed to spend time apart... and once they had an awkward meeting after Barry's confession, but that wasn't because Eddie was there or because she was putting Eddie first - it was just ... awkward.

...

I pulled this over from Barry's thread, because I think it's a good point. While Iris is thinly drawn and her career storyline is a mess, she has consistently been shown caring about Barry, being supportive, and treating him well. I think she's confused about her feelings right now, but I don't think she purposely sabotaged Barry and Linda. Remember Iris was encouraging Barry Yu date early in the season. I don't think seeing him with another girl suddenly made her jealous and caused her to look at him differently. I think his confession of love caused that and now she's trying to sort out her feelings and maybe isn't sure if she made the right decision. I don't think her actions warrant hate at all. She made a mistake. Barry's made mistakes. Hopefully they'll both get past them.

Edited February 14, 2015 by cynic

[kikaha]

To me Iris is written fine.  She's confident, happy and successful, both in her work and her personal life.  She makes her own decisions, which included writing her own blog about what should have been a fantasy, stuck to her guns when her father tried to push her away, and leveraged that persistence into a full-time reporting job at a top newspaper. She's part of a healthy family, with a great father, and has a positive outlook on life.  She's on an upward trajectory: the sky's the limit for this young person who looks barely out of her teens.

 

The idea that Barry and she could be BFFs only doesn't resonate with me.  Mostly because I rarely if ever see that between men and women. At least one of the BFFs harbors love/romantic feelings.  I think this show needs to keep it that way, for a good time if possible.  As soon as Iris learns Barry's secret, his love will no longer be unrequited, and the showrunners will have to change a key aspect of the show's success formula. 

[driedfruit]

To me Iris is written fine.  She's confident, happy and successful, both in her work and her personal life.  She makes her own decisions, which included writing her own blog about what should have been a fantasy, stuck to her guns when her father tried to push her away, and leveraged that persistence into a full-time reporting job at a top newspaper. She's part of a healthy family, with a great father, and has a positive outlook on life.  She's on an upward trajectory: the sky's the limit for this young person who looks barely out of her teens.

 

 

This, and she'll have seasons to further develop and become good at her job. I like what I've seen so far, and since the actress is adorable and talented, I'm here for the ride. 

[Oscirus]

Iris had much better writing before the mid-season finale

 

I think her sweet spot was from "Going Rogue" until  "Arrow vs Flash."

 

I know I'm going to get a lot of detractors when I type this, but, they really screwed up when they had Barry confess his feelings to Iris so early. Now every reaction/ non reaction that Iris has is automatically a cause of her attraction/non attraction to Barry. The writers could've pretty much just let Iris gradually develop feelings for Barry as his relationship with Linda or whoever they chose to be his mate developed. Instead, these lay writers chose to use the sledgehammer technique and force a triangle on the viewers that nobody wanted.

 

I don't understand how she went from working on a PhD to working in a coffee shop.

 

I believe that she was always working in the coffee shop even when working on her PHD. When Barry woke up out of his coma. that's the first place he ran to when he wanted to find Iris. But I agree that it was stupid to introduce a PHD in the first show if she wasn't even going to do anything with it.

 

She's part of a healthy family, with a great father

 

What show are you watching? Great fathers don't put their daughter's lives in danger, they definitely don't shit on their daughter's career choices, hell they actually like spending time with their daughters as opposed to the boy next door that they adopted at eleven.

So far, the only worse father in the dc tv universe is Malcolm Merlyn and I'm starting to question that..

[Shanna]

i don't think she purposely sabotaged Barry and Linda.

Oh I don't think so either. She got to talking and massively overshared though, and I didn't have a problem with Barry being irritated. She should have stopped talking because that's way more information than you should be giving someone Barry has only been out with twice. I think it was slightly inconsiderate and she got called on it. Done. I had no issues with that scene.

[peachmangosteen]

I know I'm going to get a lot of detractors when I type this, but, they really screwed up when they had Barry confess his feelings to Iris so early.

I completely agree. I think that was a big mistake for the show. It has suffered in many ways, not just with Iris, since that IMO. I think they maybe felt like it would get tiresome if Barry continued to not say anything and normally I would agree, but it seems like they didn't really think through what to do with Iris, particularity, after Barry's confession so it didn't really work for me. Now I find Iris' complete lack of a POV about the confession even more tiresome than I would've found Barry not saying anything for longer.

 

Great fathers don't put their daughter's lives in danger, they definitely don't shit on their daughter's career choices, hell they actually like spending time with their daughters as opposed to the boy next door that they adopted at eleven.

 

This. I think this is actually my biggest issue with the writing for Iris. Her father doesn't seem to give a flying fuck about her currently, which is just awful. And it's made me almost hate Joe which is just unacceptable!

 

This is from the Relationships thread:

 

Of course they should create characters we can believe in - but since they've already managed to do that with strong characterizations in comic canon, why not borrow heavily from that to do that in TV. That doesn't mean it has to be exactly the same - but for the love of all, please writers, don't mess up what was already good in the source material to begin with for something less good.

 

Case in point would be how they've handled Iris' career - I don't get why all of that rigamarole was necessary when they could have just had her focused on being a reporter.

 

The stuff with Iris' career is so poorly done. I think maybe initially they didn't plan on following comic canon there, but then later decided they would but were too lazy to actually make it believable in the show and thought everyone would just accept it because of the comics. They could still easily make Iris' career work for me, but they're gonna have to actually try. Not just show her 2 minute per ep screen time of her at her job but not actually doing anything.

Edited February 14, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[cynic]

Iris' job seems so odd to me. Granted I know nothing about the newspaper business, so maybe I'm really off base, but would a newspaper really hire a random blogger and not expect her to do anything else simply because she has an in with the Flash and might occasionally have a story about him? Newspapers are a dying industry. They should spend their money better.

If the show was going to go this way, maybe they should have had the job be a contract position where she is supposed to do a series of investigative pieces on the Flash and the other weird happenings around the city ultimately leading her to suspicions of Star Labs.

[phoenics]

Who knows - maybe it is a contract position.

Also, as I stated upthread - papers are dying, hence they need "gimmicks" and folks with a built in audience already to help boost their sales and clicks. After Iris named The Flash, her viewership went up dramatically. She basically brings money to the paper in the same way that fashion bloggers easily bring money to retailers by wearing stuff, posting what they're wearing and sending readers to the stores to buy it. And many of these girls have no degree or even a connection to fashion other than what they buy and read about - no formal education - nothing. Nate Silver used his blog to end up on shows as a political analyst when he'd never done that before. I don't think that was his original intent - he just has a love for data analysis and using hard data to predict elections. But once people saw how accurate he was, they grabbed him right up and rightfully so. Literally - I followed his blog and followed it right to the paper he took his blog content to (I think it might still be at 538 - but he does guest blogs on papers now as well as in person commentary on the news networks).

Reporting on a phenomenon like The Flash and other metahumans that apparently EVERY OTHER news outlet completely ignored obviously caught an editor's attention so he thought why not bring that in house and generate traffic to our paper/webpage instead of to a blog? Hello - click bait. That makes MONEY. So bringing Iris in house makes the paper money. I don't really see anything weird there - unless you're not taking into account how news media is changing in today's internet and mobile savvy culture.

One more thing - it's been said a couple of times that Iris was just cutting and pasting what she's gotten from other people on the street. But in the opening episode of either The Flash is Born or the episode right before that, she has this voiceover (that is just like the one Barry gave, btw) that is epic prose about believing in the impossible. No, we didn't see the entire article and maybe the show might think about having some of her "work" put up on the website (although if this is just to "prove" something about Iris to critical fans then forget it), but I think the show was establishing that Iris had moved from her comment "I'll just make something up" (which was meant to be a JOKE I'm sure - come on people) to actually writing.

I do think Iris was naive to think that she would be offered something like that (although I met a journalist on an airplane for the Al Jazeera America network and she was still in college, so this isn't unheard of) with her limited experience. I think she was naive to think that her blog wouldn't be the main draw for her as a journalist.

I think the only main thing the writers dropped was the critical point of view for Iris to voice that she now really wanted to be a journalist - after she named The Flash and all the stuff that happened after that. The writers left that part out (maybe it was cut - CP did mention that they cut quite a few of her scenes at times) and so we have this gap of trying to understand how Iris moved from blogging to truly being interested in journalism.

I would have liked it much better if they'd had the editor from the paper approach her in Jitters and said that he'd like her to come bring her blog to his paper - and then given her his card, with Iris thinking about it... and talking to someone about how she'd be able to inspire people and bring light to people who are in dark, hopeless places... and THEN she could have started the job and been crushed when she realized it was ONLY about her blog and The Flash.

One scene could have saved us all, lol.

Edited February 14, 2015 by phoenics