2000s - General Discussion

[andromeda331]

17 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Right? I think any decent prosecutor worth their salt would be able to make a good case against these guys. I don't know if there's a statute of limitations on that stuff or whatever, but I wonder if anyone could still manage to find a way to charge them even now? It's been ten years, yes, but I imagine a lot of those people are still out and about and doing the same things they did back then. So if somebody can nab them, if not for their crimes of the past, then for any crimes they may be committing now, I'd be all for that. 

I'm sorry about what your friend went through. What a mess. Yeah. Depending on who becomes our next president, if it's somebody who actually cares about regulations that can help prevent this kind of BS, that should be one of their first big priorities. And they should make those regulations as ironclad and difficult to remove as possible, so that it winds up being extremely tough, if not outright impossible, for anyone to find a way to "work around" them or chip away at them. If we can get an administration that does that, that'd be wonderful. Here's hoping. 

So do I. If anything it should be easy to charge them. They have all the paperwork and endless amount of victims. Even if they just went with fraud they could easily make a case of against every client they did it too. That'll be tons of causes. I imagine they are right back to doing the same thing they did ten years ago. Because why wouldn't they? They did it then and got away with it. So they have no reason to fear criminal charges and the government already bailed them out. So really what is to prevent them from doing it again?  I really don't see the current government cracking down on any loopholes. If we got one that did that would be awesome. I did love the point one person asked why not give the bailout money to the people who actually lost everything? Instead of people who still had their mansions, yachts, and jets? Watching the 2000s really highlights in kind of depressing way how many things you know haven't been fixed or changed. There's no doubt their back up to their usual practices, there's no doubt we are still unprepared for the next disaster. You look at Katrina and the financial crisis and remember how horrible they were but also know nothing really has changed to fix them or be prepared for Katrina. 

[Annber03]

52 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Watching the 2000s really highlights in kind of depressing way how many things you know haven't been fixed or changed. There's no doubt their back up to their usual practices, there's no doubt we are still unprepared for the next disaster. You look at Katrina and the financial crisis and remember how horrible they were but also know nothing really has changed to fix them or be prepared for Katrina. 

Exactly. It seems like we just keep going in circles. Some people have tried to push for change between then and now, but it's so easy for somebody to come along and destroy any progress, as we've been seeing recently. We need to find a way to rally the country together to fight back, and to support any potential leaders who want to fight back, so they have the confidence and public support to make their legislation a reality. 

[cpcathy]

So far every episode except for the TV one has made me quite angry.

[Eureka]

1 hour ago, cpcathy said:

So far every episode except for the TV one has made me quite angry.

Same here. Isn’t there another pop culture one (music?) coming up? Last night’s recession one literally almost put me to sleep. I was bored and could barely keep my eyes open. I’m looking forward to next week but at the same time am getting tired of so much politics.

[JessDVD]

Well, I didn't really understand all the Enron, financial crisis, bailout, etc, back when it happened, and 10-20 years later, I still don't understand it.

Oh hey Obama as senator sitting at the table talking about bailouts.

We bought our first house right before the market tanked and I spent the following five years being jealous of all the houses in our area that were bigger and cheaper than ours. Fortunately we bought wisely and were able to stay on it fine. We sold three years ago when the market was a lot better, and my sister and brother-in-law bought a smaller house in that same neighborhood for another 10k higher this year, so at least that's turned around.

Oh hey Obama as senator talking about the bailouts with Bernie Sanders behind him. (Mr DVD said, why on Earth is that surprising, he's been a senator forever, and I said it's just seeing people that wouldn't have been notable at the time, that now are notable to me)

Something they're not mentioning, is those stimulus things the government offered people in that time. Both our parents did that cash for clunkers thing, and I seem to recall some sort of cash stimulus for everyone. And the year after we bought our house, so I guess it was 2008?, there was a large tax rebate for first time homebuyers.

Oh hey Carl Levin, one of my state's senators. I'm done now.

[Sarah 103]

On 8/6/2018 at 12:05 AM, Annber03 said:

Seeing Jim Cramer just reminded me of Jon Stewart's incredibly tense (to put it mildly) interview with him when he was on "The Daily Show".

And finally, hi, James Comey! Fancy seeing you here. 

It would have been great if they had showed a clip of Stewart's interview with Jim Cramer, because it was so powerful. I had the same reaction to seeing James Comey that you did. 

21 hours ago, Eureka said:

Same here. Isn’t there another pop culture one (music?) coming up? Last night’s recession one literally almost put me to sleep. I was bored and could barely keep my eyes open. I’m looking forward to next week but at the same time am getting tired of so much politics.

Music is coming up on August 19th. Usually there's around 6-10 episodes and only two are popular culture. There's always an episode on TV and another on music but most of the other episodes are more political in nature. I wish they would cover movies, but for some reason they never have.  

[Annber03]

4 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

It would have been great if they had showed a clip of Stewart's interview with Jim Cramer, because it was so powerful. I had the same reaction to seeing James Comey that you did. 

I would've loved that. That interview was so cathartic and sorely needed.

Comey's appearance makes me think that we really need to restrict how long people work in politics in general. I mentioned above about how it feels like we keep going in circles with a lot of these issues, and I think a large part of that is because a lot of the same people who were involved in these issues in some way, for better or worse, back in the day, ARE STILL THERE NOW. At some point they need to just go away. We're in desperate need of more new blood in politics. 

[Sarah 103]

28 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Comey's appearance makes me think that we really need to restrict how long people work in politics in general. I mentioned above about how it feels like we keep going in circles with a lot of these issues, and I think a large part of that is because a lot of the same people who were involved in these issues in some way, for better or worse, back in the day, ARE STILL THERE NOW. At some point they need to just go away. We're in desperate need of more new blood in politics. 

I'm torn. There's something positive to the idea of term limits so we get new ideas and new perspectives in the room. I also think that institutional knowledge and experience has its benefits. (There's something to be said for someone who remembers "we tried thing X 10 years ago and it was a mess so let's do it a different way so we don't make that mistake again") 

[Annber03]

That's true, too. Good point. 

[Spartan Girl]

Oy. This one was the most painful to watch, knowing where we are now. I'd say more, but I don't want to get this post deleted.

But I allowed myself a little smirk of pleasure at the RNC footage where Sarah Palin was introduced as the next VP, knowing that was never going to happen.

[Annber03]

10 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Oy. This one was the most painful to watch, knowing where we are now. I'd say more, but I don't want to get this post deleted.

No kidding. It made me all depressed. The jokes and comments about Russia were particularly eerie. 

I did smile at the clips showing the coverage from election night 2008, though. That was a very exciting night, for sure. I remember very first hearing about Obama when Rolling Stone did a little interview with him a few years prior to 2008, and I clearly recall bringing the article to my dad and saying, "Hey, check this guy out, he seems pretty interesting." And I remember watching the videos he put up online from his open forums and meetings with voters and such. It was neat to watch that whole campaign unfold as it did. 

(Did raise an eyebrow at the guy talking about how his win in Iowa was surprising because "there weren't black people in Iowa". I'm presuming he was mostly joking with that, though-I'm hoping so, anyway.) 

Quote

But I allowed myself a little smirk of pleasure at the RNC footage where Sarah Palin was introduced as the next VP, knowing that was never going to happen.

Good lord, I forgot just how utterly obnoxious she was until I saw those clips. I could understand the GOP's theory of wanting to bring some female voters over to their side, but geez, surely there were other female Republican candidates that would've been much better choices? 

I do agree, though, that the assumption that women will vote for just any ol' woman who runs simply because of the fact she's female is pretty insulting. I would like to see a woman become president someday, absolutely, and I do hope we get to that point very soon. But the fact she's a woman would not be my lone reason for voting for her. 

And on the note of stereotypes regarding women, the whole controversy over Hillary getting emotional was frustrating to see, too. "Oh, my god, she got emotional! Can she handle the job?!" Shut the hell up with that noise. Suffice to say, though, I have no problem whatsoever with a politician, male OR female, showing sincere, genuine emotion in and of itself when possible in this job. I don't think anyone with any level of decency and humanity could do this job and not have moments where they display some sort of emotional reaction to whatever's going on in the country, be it good or bad. I also think how one handles their emotional reactions to a situation is often more important than the fact they got emotional in and of itself, so there's that to consider as well. 

As for Obama's campaigning style, I think it'd be wise for the Democrats to study it and work with a similar kind of playbook going forward, not just in 2020, but beyond. I liked seeing the clips of Obama, Hillary, and Edwards knocking on doors and meeting with people (and hey, heard my town getting a shoutout from Hillary in that clip where she was listing the places in Iowa she'd be visiting :D. That was neat), and I liked seeing the way they were able to rally liberals/Democrats here in the middle of the country...and not just those who lived in the big cities, either. I find it refreshing whenever people don't buy into the stereotypes about "middle America" versus the "coasts", or big cities versus small towns. 

Other random thoughts:

-I thought for sure that they'd discuss Edwards' affair at some point, and how that impacted him and his campaign. Kinda surprised they didn't touch on that. 

-I totally forgot about McCain deciding to suspend his campaign to go back to Washington to deal with the economic crisis. I remember "The Daily Show" commenting on that. 

-I liked Obama's response to the reverend controversy. He handled a lot of the stuff regarding that, as well as the remarks regarding his name, and whatnot, very well. 

I'm looking forward to the music episode next week-it'll be fun to see what artists they discuss. They've been playing Franz Ferdinand's "Take Me Out" in a lot of the commercials for this series, and every time they do, I feel compelled to go listen to that song :p. I imagine/hope they'll get a mention at some point as a result. 

[Sarah 103]

37 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I could understand the GOP's theory of wanting to bring some female voters over to their side, but geez, surely there were other female Republican candidates that would've been much better choices? 

That's always been my biggest question. I understand that because McCain was older, they wanted a VP who was younger and that because he wasn't polling well with women, they thought a woman as his VP might help. There had to be a better more qualified woman in the GOP for VP than Sarah Palin. My theory has always been she was selected by picking a name out of a hat or throwing darts at a board. 

Instead of spending the last 10 minutes on the health care debate, I wish they had spent the time on the GOP primary. I was disappointed the episode almost completely ignored the GOP primaries for the 2008 GOP candidate. I know it not have been as interesting as the Democrats' primary season, but they could have spent at least 10 minutes on the GOP side.   

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

That's always been my biggest question. I understand that because McCain was older, they wanted a VP who was younger and that because he wasn't polling well with women, they thought a woman as his VP might help. There had to be a better more qualified woman in the GOP for VP than Sarah Palin. My theory has always been she was selected by picking a name out of a hat or throwing darts at a board. 

Instead of spending the last 10 minutes on the health care debate, I wish they had spent the time on the GOP primary. I was disappointed the episode almost completely ignored the GOP primaries for the 2008 GOP candidate. I know it not have been as interesting as the Democrats' primary season, but they could have spent at least 10 minutes on the GOP side.   

LOL, I like that theory :D. Sounds about right. 

I think that's a fair argument about focusing a bit on the GOP primary, too. I forget who else was running that year for the GOP nomination, so yeah, it would've been interesting to discuss those other options as well, and see who else could've been a viable option, if anyone. Plus, the healthcare debate spilled over into the early 2010s as well, so it would probably ultimately fit better for whenever CNN inevitably does their 2010s retrospective :p.

But I did like the brief discussion about it regardless, simply because that whole issue became especially personal for my family during that time. It was interesting to see Obama and the Democrats doing what they could to try and change the system some, and frustrating (and downright infuriating, in some cases) to see the lengths people were willing to go, and the arguments they were willing to make, to try and stop them. 

[JessDVD]

The only thing I really have to say about this one is, I have really really appreciated how in all of the episodes about politics, all decades too, all their talking heads have been extremely fair and balanced as they talk about both sides of the aisle, the people associated with them, and their positives and negatives.

I smirked a bit at Palin too. We thought she was an ok pick at the beginning but she got majorly Looney tunes real fast. And sorry about that glass ceiling, Hillary. Sure would be nice if one or both parties could manage to find and/or nominate a woman who's qualified, not crazy, that people don't hate, and doesn't have majorly off-putting history (and yes, I realize I'm describing our current president, so maybe I should just say it'd be nice if either party could nominate people like that regardless of gender, do any exist???).

So, music next week, that'll be nice after all this political stuff. I'm not sure I was listening to anything that was remotely popular during this decade and I can't remember what any of that was anyway, other than boy bands in the very beginning. I expect an appearance from Justin Timberlake at least once. The main thing I remember was the rise of Napster, Kazaa, and the like, and I assure you that all of my music in the 2000s was legally acquired.

[mtlchick]

WOOT!  I found this thread!  Always been a fan of the series once I found the Eighties and will constantly binge the decade shows when they air.   That said, I've found that this series has been a bit more erratic than normaly.

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I was in Vietnam and Singapore in September 2008 and had limited access to the internet so the episode about the financial crisis was a real eye opener for me.  I still don't understand the stock market and never had a mortgage (I live in the house I grew up in which was paid off long ago) but after watching it I felt two things:

1) Anger

2) Not much has changed in a decade.   

These people got away almost scot free with slight dings against them at best.  Those who were led to believe they could get that house are more than paying for it 10 years later.   

---

The Bush episodes did remind me that "Trump is HORRIBLE!  It makes you miss Bush!" "Here's 2 hours on how you should think long and hard before you stick with that answer."  As a Canadian, I do think Bush did care for America, but he did in a way that seemed so inept.  If anything, I'm surprised there was not enough done on Katrina to the point I think that should have been a standalone episode, especially seeing how the people are Puerto Rico suffered after Hurricane Maria. 

[andromeda331]

24 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

WOOT!  I found this thread!  Always been a fan of the series once I found the Eighties and will constantly binge the decade shows when they air.   That said, I've found that this series has been a bit more erratic than normaly.

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I was in Vietnam and Singapore in September 2008 and had limited access to the internet so the episode about the financial crisis was a real eye opener for me.  I still don't understand the stock market and never had a mortgage (I live in the house I grew up in which was paid off long ago) but after watching it I felt two things:

1) Anger

2) Not much has changed in a decade.   

These people got away almost scot free with slight dings against them at best.  Those who were led to believe they could get that house are more than paying for it 10 years later.   

---

The Bush episodes did remind me that "Trump is HORRIBLE!  It makes you miss Bush!" "Here's 2 hours on how you should think long and hard before you stick with that answer."  As a Canadian, I do think Bush did care for America, but he did in a way that seemed so inept.  If anything, I'm surprised there was not enough done on Katrina to the point I think that should have been a standalone episode, especially seeing how the people are Puerto Rico suffered after Hurricane Maria. 

Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction to the financial crisis episode its absolutely insane that no one went to jail for it. Not only did we not prosecute anyone which really could have no matter what that one guy at the end said we gave them money. Lots and lots of money to bail out their businesses. They didn't go to jail and they didn't have to lose anything. They still have their mansions, jets and millions and probably doing the same thing right now. There's nothing to stop them.

I agree Katrina should have been an hour long because it was such a big event and the screws up when it came to helping or lack of help. It was the first time in awhile that city was so thoroughly hit by hurricane and so much went wrong with the levees failing. That whole hurricane season should have been mentioned because it had been so insane. We went through the entire alphabet and six letters through the Greek we had so many hurricanes and tropical storms. The lack of help or how long it took for help to finally start rolling in which even when it did it still wasn't enough. There was no excuse for Bush's reaction to New Orleans and delay in helping. Its still depressing to think nothing was learned for that and it happened to Puerto Rico. And there's no reason to think it won't happen again and we still won't be ready. I do agree that unlike Trump I do think at least Bush cares about the country. But he still should have stepped up and got aid to New Orleans and other parts that were effected by Katrina and other hurricanes and quickly. And should have had more people in helping to evacuate before it hit.  

[andromeda331]

I did like the Obama episode. I think my favorite part was realizing the Obamas basically did what Clintons did during their first election. The Bushes did the usual campaign while the Clintons did something different. They tried to appeal to the younger crowd and doing hip stuff like the saxophone playing. Hilary ended up kind of doing a normal campaign while the Obamas did something different. Trying to reach out to those who normally don't vote or are ignored by the campaigns usually. Everyone freaking out that Hillary showed emotion drove me crazy. They had been complaining that for weeks and months (and maybe longer) that she never showed any emotion. She finally does and everyone acts like its a sign she can't be president. 

Palin was straight up crazy. I love the remark that women aren't going to vote for a woman just because she's a woman. Because yes that's very true. She started out sane until she well started talking. Boy that didn't last long. Boy was she crazy. I can't figure out why McCain picked her and knowing he had only met her once. That was a big mistake. I can't believe he didn't pick someone more qualified or actually was qualified. She knew nothing about the policies or anything about politics. The remarks about Obama's background was so disgusting. I did like McCain finally saying something even if it was late because those were disgusting. He should have said something sooner or knocked that part of the campaign off.          

Edited August 20, 2018 by andromeda331

[mtlchick]

The Obama episode was strange because there was so much back and forth between him, Clinton and early on Edwards that the GOP side was nothing more than "Meanwhile, McCain got picked" and that wasn't until half way through the episode.   I think SNL and Tina Fey played a bigger part of the last few weeks of the election than the episode was willing to show or admit. 

 

And then the episode ends with Obama at the White House Correspondents Dinner mocking Trump for the birther issue.  Because who doesn't love their irony served with salad? 

[JessDVD]

Music! That first half sure was a retrospective of all my late high school dances and then college banquets and so on. Thanks to CNN for the N Sync moment, I feel better about the 90s one now.

Anecdote that is related but of borderline general interest: I was in marching band at our local university in 2002 and 2003, and some enterprising students arranged “Hot in Herre”, “Crazy in Love” and “The Whole World” (all mentioned in the show) into stand cheers for the band to play in between plays. For some reason, one of Nelly's people (might have been producer?) was at one of these games and heard us playing Hot in here, and told him about it and sent us a nice note saying how cool she thought that was.

The latter half of the decade, was when I wasn't listening to much music so I wasn't sure what they'd be covering but I had heard of or knew about almost everything they mentioned. I thought the comment that the decade began with the boy bands but ended with the single ladies was interesting. Also didn't realize that Single Ladies was that long ago.

I contend that if the music industry had been willing to buy into the Apple store and buying individual songs concept at the beginning, they might not have gone belly up. Sure, there will always be people will always refuse to buy what they can illegally acquire for free, but if microtransactions now are any indication, it's way too easy to pay 99c here and there and get songs you know you like, or figure, it's only 99c, if I hate it oh well, and then it all adds up to what people used to spend on albums or more even.

I had forgotten about that litany of patriotic music in the mid 00s. Ahhh, to be the song writer who realized that forgotten and Bin Laden rhyme (sort of, anyway). I do love that Toby Keith one, the version I downloaded off of file sharing software of questionable repute totally bought legally is from a live concert and had some interesting backstory about his dad as an intro. Also forgot about that Dixie chicks stuff. I had their first two albums but i don't remember hearing much from them after all that political stuff. I'm guessing they broke that whole know your market thing, country music lovers statistically are not fond of those moves.

Well, that's a wrap for this decade... Guess I'll see you all in about 3-4 years??

[Dewey Decimate]

I don't know why, but I couldn't stop laughing when they used Avril Lavigne's "Complicated" as an example of a one-hit wonder, waste of the rest of the album. Zing!

[andromeda331]

19 minutes ago, JessDVD said:

Music! That first half sure was a retrospective of all my late high school dances and then college banquets and so on. Thanks to CNN for the N Sync moment, I feel better about the 90s one now.

Anecdote that is related but of borderline general interest: I was in marching band at our local university in 2002 and 2003, and some enterprising students arranged “Hot in Herre”, “Crazy in Love” and “The Whole World” (all mentioned in the show) into stand cheers for the band to play in between plays. For some reason, one of Nelly's people (might have been producer?) was at one of these games and heard us playing Hot in here, and told him about it and sent us a nice note saying how cool she thought that was.

The latter half of the decade, was when I wasn't listening to much music so I wasn't sure what they'd be covering but I had heard of or knew about almost everything they mentioned. I thought the comment that the decade began with the boy bands but ended with the single ladies was interesting. Also didn't realize that Single Ladies was that long ago.

I contend that if the music industry had been willing to buy into the Apple store and buying individual songs concept at the beginning, they might not have gone belly up. Sure, there will always be people will always refuse to buy what they can illegally acquire for free, but if microtransactions now are any indication, it's way too easy to pay 99c here and there and get songs you know you like, or figure, it's only 99c, if I hate it oh well, and then it all adds up to what people used to spend on albums or more even.

I had forgotten about that litany of patriotic music in the mid 00s. Ahhh, to be the song writer who realized that forgotten and Bin Laden rhyme (sort of, anyway). I do love that Toby Keith one, the version I downloaded off of file sharing software of questionable repute totally bought legally is from a live concert and had some interesting backstory about his dad as an intro. Also forgot about that Dixie chicks stuff. I had their first two albums but i don't remember hearing much from them after all that political stuff. I'm guessing they broke that whole know your market thing, country music lovers statistically are not fond of those moves.

Well, that's a wrap for this decade... Guess I'll see you all in about 3-4 years??

I remembered a lot of the first part too. Then less towards the end. There were a lot of great songs back then! I remember the fight over file sharing. Singers getting upset over the downloads and loss of money. iTunes and everything. I was for the file sharing, downloads and iTunes. I know they were losing a lot of money. But hey we fans were paying a lot of money for CDs and most of the time there were only one or two songs on there that were any good. Was anyone really only paying ten bucks for a CD? I could have swore I remember paying 20. It was really cool to finally be able have something that can hold so many songs. I liked the mention of YouTube that's where I find new songs more then anywhere else. Bands I probably never would have heard of if not for YouTube.

I remember the Dixie Chicks and the political stuff. I'm surprise they didn't mention what happened with their comeback but maybe that was in the 2010s? The Dixie Chicks were on a comeback. Then they released a CD about how they weren't really sorry about what they said the first time around.  I'm not sure that's what the way to go when your trying to launch a comeback due to those very remarks. If fans were ticked before I can't imagine they'll be any more thrilled to they were trying to comeback with a CD that they aren't sorry. I don't care about the political stuff but its seemed more like they didn't even know their own market. Because yes country music lovers generally aren't fans of that kind of stuff. Had they been rock or heavy metal I doubt it would have happened. Or anyone would care.  

[Annber03]

When they were playing the clips of "Hey Ya!" and "Crazy in Love" and whatnot, I was sitting here singing and dancing along :p. I liked the brief nod to Coldplay-I know people find them cheesy and they get mocked a lot and whatnot, but I've liked them ever since high school. I remember when "Yellow" first came out, and I don't care how many times songs like "Clocks" and "The Scientist" (my favorite Coldplay song) got played, I still love those songs to this day. I dunno. I just think their music is really pretty. *Shrugs*

And Avril Lavigne. I remember reading SO MANY debates on message boards about whether or not she was "true punk" :D. I can't hear "Complicated" without remembering a period in high school where, like clockwork, the moment I boarded the bus to go home at the end of the day, that song was always on the radio. It was weird. 

I was a bit surprised they didn't talk a bit more about the rise of the nu-metal and emo bands and whatnot-Evanescence, Linkin Park, Fall Out Boy, etc., 'cause those genres were pretty big there for a while and you couldn't escape a lot of those bands for a time, either. Also, they play "Take Me Out" in virtually every promo for this series and then there's just a brief shot of Franz Ferdinand when discussing bands of that ilk that came out around that time? 'Kay. I did love that there were so many bands bringing back that late '70s/early '80s post-punk/new wave/alternative sound, though-it was around that time that I was starting to watch a lot of VH1 Classic and listening to Nina Blackwood's new wave show and such and getting into some of the classic bands of that era, and now here were some modern bands doing the same sort of music for me to enjoy as well. It was fun. 

39 minutes ago, JessDVD said:

Anecdote that is related but of borderline general interest: I was in marching band at our local university in 2002 and 2003, and some enterprising students arranged “Hot in Herre”, “Crazy in Love” and “The Whole World” (all mentioned in the show) into stand cheers for the band to play in between plays. For some reason, one of Nelly's people (might have been producer?) was at one of these games and heard us playing Hot in here, and told him about it and sent us a nice note saying how cool she thought that was.

That is a neat story! Very cool :). I remember my sister and a friend of hers made up some kind of dance to "Hot in Herre". 

Also, I have to say, much respect to Ted Koppel and all that good stuff, but good lord, could he have sounded any more like a typical "old out of touch guy" when talking about the rise of rap music? (And on a somewhat related note, I will forever get a kick out of the fact that Snoop Dogg and Martha Stewart are actual friends and have done shows together and stuff :p.)

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I contend that if the music industry had been willing to buy into the Apple store and buying individual songs concept at the beginning, they might not have gone belly up. Sure, there will always be people will always refuse to buy what they can illegally acquire for free, but if microtransactions now are any indication, it's way too easy to pay 99c here and there and get songs you know you like, or figure, it's only 99c, if I hate it oh well, and then it all adds up to what people used to spend on albums or more even.

It's very interesting to see how even musicians themselves were split over things like Napster. Some artists were willing to sue, others were like, "Yeah, if you wanna download, go for it." I confess to using Napster myself back in the day-my main reason for doing so was because I lived in a town where I couldn't find half the stuff I wanted to buy in local stores, so hearing it online was my main way of having a copy of the songs/albums in question until I could get a legitimate physical copy of the album, which I always did when I was able to find it in a store or an online website. I have no problem buying an album where I may only know one or two of the songs on it ahead of time-I've discovered some good stuff and artists that way. 

But yeah, I do think that had the record companies paid more attention to the changes in how people listened to music and whatnot and gotten out ahead of the online/downloading craze and worked with people, a lot of headaches could've been spared all the way around, from the record companies to the artists to the consumers. 

It was so freaking weird to see the old Napster website, too. Man. Memories. I remember when my family was first looking at that site, we were like, "Oh, there's no way they'll have x song, will they?" And surprise, they did! And then of course there was the whole thing of songs being mislabeled and attributed to the wrong artists and trying to download a song only to get some weird loud noise or whatever... Good times :p. 

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I had forgotten about that litany of patriotic music in the mid 00s. Ahhh, to be the song writer who realized that forgotten and Bin Laden rhyme (sort of, anyway). I do love that Toby Keith one, the version I downloaded off of file sharing software of questionable repute totally bought legally is from a live concert and had some interesting backstory about his dad as an intro. Also forgot about that Dixie chicks stuff. I had their first two albums but i don't remember hearing much from them after all that political stuff. I'm guessing they broke that whole know your market thing, country music lovers statistically are not fond of those moves.

The thing I got a kick out of with the people who threw a fit over the Dixie Chicks' comments...I kept wondering how many of them, after destroying the albums or calling into radio stations demanding they stop playing their music, went home and sat down and happily listened to Beatles records, or stuff like CCR, or CSNY, or so on. It was okay for our parents' generation to have music that got all political and criticized the president/government, now it's suddenly wrong and unpatriotic, unless it's the "rah rah" kind of political like Toby Keith? Okay. I also love how everyone's all, "How dare you criticize our president!" and yet there's a clip of Bush himself being like, "Yeah, they can say whatever they want, that's fine." 

Up to the time of the Dixie Chicks' comments, I didn't pay much attention to their music-I'm not much of a country person in general, and the few songs I had heard of theirs were their big hits (and I remember their cover of "Landslide" getting a crapton of airplay on VH1 back in the day, too). But I did check out the album they put out after the big controversy, partly because I was curious how they'd address it and party because Neil Finn collaborated with them on a song and I wanted to hear that :D. "Not Ready to Make Nice" is such an eerie, haunting song. Honestly, though, even without taking the controversy into account one way or another, I genuinely like that album as a whole. 

I do feel like they kind of glossed over how certain music became a comfort after 9/11-they made a brief mention of wanting more pleasant stuff, but, for instance, I remember U2 had a HUGE resurgence in the early 2000s because their music struck such a chord post-9/11, and they did so much to honor the victims at their shows and stuff (the infamous Super Bowl performance, where they had that thing showing the names of everyone who died in the attacks). So I think they could've gone a little more in depth with that, especially as a means of contrast to the few people who got political. 

Bah. Anywho, those small issues aside, overall, it was a good hour. Just hearing some of those songs brought back some fun memories for me :D. 

[andromeda331]

12 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

When they were playing the clips of "Hey Ya!" and "Crazy in Love" and whatnot, I was sitting here singing and dancing along :p. I liked the brief nod to Coldplay-I know people find them cheesy and they get mocked a lot and whatnot, but I've liked them ever since high school. I remember when "Yellow" first came out, and I don't care how many times songs like "Clocks" and "The Scientist" (my favorite Coldplay song) got played, I still love those songs to this day. I dunno. I just think their music is really pretty. *Shrugs*

And Avril Lavigne. I remember reading SO MANY debates on message boards about whether or not she was "true punk" :D. I can't hear "Complicated" without remembering a period in high school where, like clockwork, the moment I boarded the bus to go home at the end of the day, that song was always on the radio. It was weird. 

I was a bit surprised they didn't talk a bit more about the rise of the nu-metal and emo bands and whatnot-Evanescence, Linkin Park, Fall Out Boy, etc., 'cause those genres were pretty big there for a while and you couldn't escape a lot of those bands for a time, either. Also, they play "Take Me Out" in virtually every promo for this series and then there's just a brief shot of Franz Ferdinand when discussing bands of that ilk that came out around that time? 'Kay. I did love that there were so many bands bringing back that late '70s/early '80s post-punk/new wave/alternative sound, though-it was around that time that I was starting to watch a lot of VH1 Classic and listening to Nina Blackwood's new wave show and such and getting into some of the classic bands of that era, and now here were some modern bands doing the same sort of music for me to enjoy as well. It was fun. 

That is a neat story! Very cool :). I remember my sister and a friend of hers made up some kind of dance to "Hot in Herre". 

Also, I have to say, much respect to Ted Koppel and all that good stuff, but good lord, could he have sounded any more like a typical "old out of touch guy" when talking about the rise of rap music? (And on a somewhat related note, I will forever get a kick out of the fact that Snoop Dogg and Martha Stewart are actual friends and have done shows together and stuff :p.)

It's very interesting to see how even musicians themselves were split over things like Napster. Some artists were willing to sue, others were like, "Yeah, if you wanna download, go for it." I confess to using Napster myself back in the day-my main reason for doing so was because I lived in a town where I couldn't find half the stuff I wanted to buy in local stores, so hearing it online was my main way of having a copy of the songs/albums in question until I could get a legitimate physical copy of the album, which I always did when I was able to find it in a store or an online website. I have no problem buying an album where I may only know one or two of the songs on it ahead of time-I've discovered some good stuff and artists that way. 

But yeah, I do think that had the record companies paid more attention to the changes in how people listened to music and whatnot and gotten out ahead of the online/downloading craze and worked with people, a lot of headaches could've been spared all the way around, from the record companies to the artists to the consumers. 

It was so freaking weird to see the old Napster website, too. Man. Memories. I remember when my family was first looking at that site, we were like, "Oh, there's no way they'll have x song, will they?" And surprise, they did! And then of course there was the whole thing of songs being mislabeled and attributed to the wrong artists and trying to download a song only to get some weird loud noise or whatever... Good times :p. 

The thing I got a kick out of with the people who threw a fit over the Dixie Chicks' comments...I kept wondering how many of them, after destroying the albums or calling into radio stations demanding they stop playing their music, went home and sat down and happily listened to Beatles records, or stuff like CCR, or CSNY, or so on. It was okay for our parents' generation to have music that got all political and criticized the president/government, now it's suddenly wrong and unpatriotic, unless it's the "rah rah" kind of political like Toby Keith? Okay. I also love how everyone's all, "How dare you criticize our president!" and yet there's a clip of Bush himself being like, "Yeah, they can say whatever they want, that's fine." 

Up to the time of the Dixie Chicks' comments, I didn't pay much attention to their music-I'm not much of a country person in general, and the few songs I had heard of theirs were their big hits (and I remember their cover of "Landslide" getting a crapton of airplay on VH1 back in the day, too). But I did check out the album they put out after the big controversy, partly because I was curious how they'd address it and party because Neil Finn collaborated with them on a song and I wanted to hear that :D. "Not Ready to Make Nice" is such an eerie, haunting song. Honestly, though, even without taking the controversy into account one way or another, I genuinely like that album as a whole. 

I do feel like they kind of glossed over how certain music became a comfort after 9/11-they made a brief mention of wanting more pleasant stuff, but, for instance, I remember U2 had a HUGE resurgence in the early 2000s because their music struck such a chord post-9/11, and they did so much to honor the victims at their shows and stuff (the infamous Super Bowl performance, where they had that thing showing the names of everyone who died in the attacks). So I think they could've gone a little more in depth with that, especially as a means of contrast to the few people who got political. 

Bah. Anywho, those small issues aside, overall, it was a good hour. Just hearing some of those songs brought back some fun memories for me :D. 

Landslide I think was the only song I ever heard from them and I didn't like it. But I very rarely like songs that get remake. I'm sure you were right the same ones all upset over the remarks probably did have Beatles and other bands. I heard about them before the political comments but their music just wasn't my style. I still can't believe how upset people got. If you don't like the remarks that's fine you don't have too. And yes Bush didn't care so why did everyone else? He's a president, they get crisis all the time. And that was hardly the worse remarks towards him that were made with the Iraqi war, Katrina and so many other things. I do like you bring up 9/11 because that played such a huge role in the music in the early years after that. There were so many bands and concerts honoring those that died. It was a huge deal and lasted for awhile. The Super Bowl one was just absolutely amazing.   The Emo bands! How could I forget that! I loved looking up song names in Napster too I kept trying to stump it but I don't think I ever did.  

[cpcathy]

18 hours ago, Annber03 said:

When they were playing the clips of "Hey Ya!" and "Crazy in Love" and whatnot, I was sitting here singing and dancing along :p. I liked the brief nod to Coldplay-I know people find them cheesy and they get mocked a lot and whatnot, but I've liked them ever since high school. I remember when "Yellow" first came out, and I don't care how many times songs like "Clocks" and "The Scientist" (my favorite Coldplay song) got played, I still love those songs to this day. I dunno. I just think their music is really pretty. *Shrugs*

 

Since Coldplay is my favorite band, I disagreed with their blink and you'll miss it mention. They are now one of the biggest bands in the world and they play sold out stadiums. The show seemed to put them in a "oh, weren't they cute" category. Boo.

[mtlchick]

Out of all the sectors of the entertainment industry, I felt that the music industry was the most resistant to radical change.  I'm the type where I needed to like 3 singles off one album before I would buy it on cassette or CD and preparing for the filler that came with it.   I did use Napster, but there were other file sharing outlets out there that were comparable so it's not like Napster was the only culprit, it was simply the one that stood out the most.  Now any artist just need some kind of streaming outlet to get one song out there to go viral and they can punch their own ticket.  Even shows like American Idol and The Voice can only take someone so far now; the "getting signed to a label" reward doesn't mean much anymore.  Most artists make their money off of touring and publishing.  

22 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I do feel like they kind of glossed over how certain music became a comfort after 9/11-they made a brief mention of wanting more pleasant stuff, but, for instance, I remember U2 had a HUGE resurgence in the early 2000s because their music struck such a chord post-9/11

I'll see you on U2 and raise you Hero by Enrique Iglesias.  That song took a life on its own post 9/11 simply due to the title.  I was like "Did anyone NOT listen to these lyrics before throwing this on as a tribute to the victims and first responders?!"  

[Annber03]

25 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

I'll see you on U2 and raise you Hero by Enrique Iglesias.  That song took a life on its own post 9/11 simply due to the title.  I was like "Did anyone NOT listen to these lyrics before throwing this on as a tribute to the victims and first responders?!"  

Oh, good call. And of course Five For Fighting's "Superman (It's Not Easy)"-that song was everywhere as well, and I think it was even performed for the first responders at some event as well. 

22 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Landslide I think was the only song I ever heard from them and I didn't like it. But I very rarely like songs that get remake. I'm sure you were right the same ones all upset over the remarks probably did have Beatles and other bands. I heard about them before the political comments but their music just wasn't my style. I still can't believe how upset people got. If you don't like the remarks that's fine you don't have too. And yes Bush didn't care so why did everyone else? He's a president, they get crisis all the time. And that was hardly the worse remarks towards him that were made with the Iraqi war, Katrina and so many other things. 

Exactly. Once you're president, you have to acknowledge that criticism comes with the job, and learn how to roll with it and let it be (and I'll just leave that comment as is to avoid getting any more political :p). 

I also wonder what would've happened had they made their comments at a time when the rest of the country WAS starting to turn on the Bush administration. Maybe they would've been better received then? 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Oh, good call. And of course Five For Fighting's "Superman (It's Not Easy)"-that song was everywhere as well, and I think it was even performed for the first responders at some event as well. 

Exactly. Once you're president, you have to acknowledge that criticism comes with the job, and learn how to roll with it and let it be (and I'll just leave that comment as is to avoid getting any more political :p). 

I also wonder what would've happened had they made their comments at a time when the rest of the country WAS starting to turn on the Bush administration. Maybe they would've been better received then? 

They probably would have. Green Day published their album a year later in 2004. Maybe 2003 the country wasn't ready for it. Which kind of makes sense. Those that had questioned why we were going to Iraq weren't exactly being listened too yet. Bush had built up a lot of trust or a lot were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. It wasn't until a year later people were turning. By then rumors and documents were starting to come to light that Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction, and stories of prisoner abuse were popping up. Not to mention the clear signs there was no plan for after overthrowing Saddam and we were dealing with insurgency.  A year later the Dixie Chicks probably would have been applauded or at least been in good company.  

I love, love that Five For Fighting song! Definitely one of the best. That was such a good song and they played it for the Concert for New York City on October 20th Bowie played "Hero" and America. Billy Joel sang Miami 2017 Seen the Lights go Out on Broadway and New York State of Mind, and many other performers. Short films were played and they raised millions. They aired it on VH1. It was very emotional. I remember crying a lot.   

[Sarah 103]

On 8/22/2018 at 11:37 PM, andromeda331 said:

I remember the fight over file sharing. Singers getting upset over the downloads and loss of money. iTunes and everything. I was for the file sharing, downloads and iTunes. I know they were losing a lot of money. But hey we fans were paying a lot of money for CDs and most of the time there were only one or two songs on there that were any good. Was anyone really only paying ten bucks for a CD? I could have swore I remember paying 20. 

Overall, I liked this episode. It's interesting you bring up iTunes because I wished the episode had just spent a minute or two on why iTunes mattered and was such a game changer for the industry, especially for music on the internet. I'm with you on the price of a CD. There were some CDs that I paid $10 for but I also remember paying closer to $15-20 for most others, and paying over $20 for two disc sets.  One summer I saved up most of money so I could buy the Beatles Red and Blue albums. I was thrilled when my mother took me to Strawberries and they were on sale with a discount price. 

On 8/23/2018 at 10:42 PM, mtlchick said:

Now any artist just need some kind of streaming outlet to get one song out there to go viral and they can punch their own ticket.  Even shows like American Idol and The Voice can only take someone so far now; the "getting signed to a label" reward doesn't mean much anymore.  Most artists make their money off of touring and publishing.  

I agree with you that most artists make their money off touring, but big tours where the singer earns tons of money don't usually happen without the support of a major label. Something that I wish the episode had done a better job of explaining is that yes, someone can get discovered and become famous through MySpace or YouTube but earning serious money still requires the backing/support of a label or record company. 

It was funny that the record industry forgot singles could be a thing/a viable strategy. Prior to the 1970s, it was a singles market, not an album market.

Also, it seems the decade of the 2000s starts and ends with teen pop dominating. You start the decade with boy bands and end the decade with Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga and Justin Beiber.

[blueray]

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I was a bit surprised they didn't talk a bit more about the rise of the nu-metal and emo bands and whatnot-Evanescence, Linkin Park, Fall Out Boy, etc., 'cause those genres were pretty big there for a while and you couldn't escape a lot of those bands for a time, either.

I was disappointed that they didn't mention those. I was in high school at the time and I hated (still do) Hip-hop/rap. I really turned deep into alternative rock and metal. I feel like they were missing a huge part of the music season at the time. Maybe it was a bit underground, but not so much that it wasn't played on radios. Linkin Park especially was a big band and they made it into the following decade. I kept waiting for them to mention this and they didn't :(. Also despite what they said, rock music kept being a thing, but maybe not in the traditional sense.