S04.E09: Foul Deeds Will Rise

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Liam’s true intentions are revealed and the family come together to try and navigate the hard path that has been set for them. Jasper helps Liam with a plan and Willow and Robert hit a rough patch.

 

[EarlGreyTea]

Willow/Robert fans, this was a great episode for them, until the very end; now I can confidently state that the wheels are coming off. And this episode finally answered the question of why we never saw Willow saying yes to Robert's proposal: because we saw it in tonight's episode as he proposed again. I'm pretty sure that at the end of this episode, Willow was quoting Eleanor's love letters to Jasper (the ones that Robert read last season, if you recall), meaning that Robert meant none of it and was saying only what he needed to in order to get Willow back on his side.

"I need you to be the kinder side of us." If that doesn't sum up the appeal of Robert and Willow, I don't know what does! Robert was completely right about the queen needing to be apolitical. In the real world British monarchy, that's how it works. But in the universe of the show, I can see how it cuts Willow off at the knees. I loved how he relented and told her to say whatever she wants to the press and to give their gifts away as she wished.

Calling it now, Jasper probably blew the whistle on Eleanor's Robin Hood antics. Which will probably set off Breakup No. 1,0001.  Where are they going with this Robin Hood storyline? It was cute for an episode and all, but  it better be a precursor to some bigger plot to justify this much screen time. What a sad way to end the Sebastian storyline.  I hope Helena was wrong. Besides being super attractive, he was a viable love interest for Helena and one of the only characters on this show with no ulterior motives.

I really can't buy that Robert is so easily taken in by Liam, and that the latter is such a successful con man. I suppose his plan feeds into Robert's belief that no one is as clever as he is, so Liam having his number in that sense is believable.  Cyrus is at least amusing to watch, if we're stuck with this Liam as avenger storyline. Where does Liam get off pairing up with CYRUS, of all people, and still trying to claim the moral high ground? Having said that, the affection between the two is nice to watch.

I CAN buy that Helena has Robert's number. Now that is believable, consistent with her character, and more interesting than a sibling pissing match. Mothers usually know what they have in their children, and Robert has always been Helena's favorite. I'm interested to see what Hurley can do if/when Helena is faced with a murderer for a beloved child.

I did enjoy the look on Robert's face as he eavesdropped on  Cyrus and Liam. He was listening closely, alert as ever, but you could see a shade of hurt on his face. It was a nice touch by Brown, and again, was probably more layers than the character deserves.

[emjohnson03]

Oh man!

That was something...else. I could have done without the whole recap of the plan in the first few minutes and I really didn't need all the time on the "Robin Hood" thing. 

I think Willow humanizes Robert but he's so far gone that he can't see the truths from the lies. I will say Max Brown sells it so well but the way the camera panned on his face before Willow came into the room and he proposed again, was quite dark (and yet pensive at the same time). 

I think next week is gonna be pretty amazing so I'm excited for it and I'm curious to see how it ends. I think Willow "wants" to expose Robert but in the end, she won't. And funny how she would be the one to blow it up in the grand scheme.

I really don't think this show is meant for a S5 so I'm going to see how the theories on what would have happened at the end of next week. 

I laughed because basically Robert was in that room in every one of his scenes but wearing different clothes. Did he ever leave?

I would be shocked that Robert wouldn't tail some of these people, especially Liam and he would catch on pretty quick on what was going on. But maybe Robert is on the deception and has his own plan. I would love for him to really say he loves Willow but she can't ever trust him. BOOOOO!! 

[francie202]

Ugh, those were Jaspenor’s love letters, weren’t they? Can Rillow/Robow/Willobert come back from that?

Not going to lie, kind of glad I’m going to be out of the country next weekend and won’t get to see the season finale live.  Don’t think I can handle them all trying to take down Robert. ?

I’m over this whole ‘Robert is evil, Liam is pure & innocent’ storyline.

#AnyoneButLiam

#LongLiveKingRobert

#IDon’tCareIfHe’sEvil

#EmmyForMaxBrown 

[twoods]

Poor Willow. Eleanor reciting her love letters  was heartbreaking to see. It makes sense why Robert was into Willow from the beginning without having much interaction- she was the perfect queen. I’m also guessing she doesn’t expose him next week and marries him. The finale looks awesome. I’m ready for Robert to be taken down. It seems like all this power is a big fuck you to his dad for not thinking he would be a great king. Staring at the picture of his coronation is creepy.

I hope that Jasper isn’t the one who told the press about Eleanor. They are in a good place where they tell each other everything and this would be a big cop out on all the progress between them. Stop using stupid situations to give them angst, writers.

Poor Sebastian. I really like him and he seemed so sad when he left. Helena continues to be awesome, knowing what Cyrus and Liam were up to and also knowing about Robert and the blackout. 

[UNOSEZ]

I really hope Robert has one more master stroke up his sleeve... Because if all we get out of this season(series?)  Finale is the rise of "Righteous " Liam I'm gonna barf maybe some other part of fandom really wants this.. If they do I haven't found where they are.  Liam is basically a crybaby who wants "his" kingdom back so he gets help from Cyrus and his mother abd Jasper and still delusionaly thinks he's the Good and Moral one??... Let's tally up all the transgressions on each side and see if its really Robert who's detestable... If the showrunners think they've done enough to sway ppl over to Liam... Speaking only for myself they haven't... 

Also show thanks for fridging another  black guy who seemed to do very little wrong but I guess served his purpose... Smh

[phoenics]

I was bored to tears with all of the conspirators meeting up.  Funny - they NEVER came together like this to take down Cyrus did they?  Nope.  How did Robert become more evil than Cyrus who killed someone?

Oh - I guess they'll pin Simon's death on Robert too.

I basically fast forwarded through all of the earnest scenes of these people hypocritically going after Robert.  Yes, he's tyrannical - but Jasper was the worst kind of con man, Helena was a master manipulator, Cyrus was the worst and a murderer... I just HATE IT that Liam gets to be the good guy who was right all along while Robert is reduced to a mustache twirling villain just to prop Liam up.  So they all get to be redeemed but Robert doesn't?  This show could teach a master class on wasted potential.  They really should have brought Robert back in S2 - then they could have done all of this and had time to redeem him.

I can't stand Liam - William Moseley could NEVER hold up as the lead of the show - even now he's propped up by Cyrus and Helena.

See - this is proof that the show didn't know AT ALL what it had in Max Brown to write him into such a corner that he'll never get out even if there is a S5.  If there isn't a S5 and they knew it all along then okay - I can see why Max signed on - but he's playing Robert with much more depth and nuance than this show deserves.

Every scene William Moseley is in is cringe worthy.  He really cannot act.  At all.  Like - when you put him in a scene with Helena he just pales.  The only reason he halfway works with Cyrus is because Cy makes fun of him for most of the scene.

And sad how Sebastian got done - they literally are doing away with the BEST aspects of this show to prop Liam up as the "righteous" one.

Also - notice Liam NEVER says he loves Robert?  Ever?  Helena says it.  Eleanor says it.  Willow says it.  It's like the writers want me to hate Liam and not trust his motives for this.

I mourn what could have been with this show.

And wow - killing off Robert/Willow like that is really upsetting.  This show REALLY thinks Liam/Kathyrn is better than Willow/Robert?  STUPID writers who clearly didn't understand what the audience wanted.  NO ONE cares about Liam and Kathryn.  Hell, Kathryn's only moments of spark on this show were her scenes with Robert.

I don't think I can watch the finale.

Is there gonna be a S5?  If so, I might watch - but only if Max Brown returns.  Without him, this show is dead to me.

You know what the sad thing is?  Even though they seem to be writing that Robert's affection for Willow is a lie - I'm still MORE convinced of his affection for her than I am of the Liam/Kathryn relationship.

If Robert is the Matrix, I'll happily stay in.  I don't want Liam the red pill.

Edited May 7, 2018 by phoenics

[emjohnson03]

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

 

See - this is proof that the show didn't know AT ALL what it had in Max Brown to write him into such a corner that he'll never get out even if there is a S5.  If there isn't a S5 and they knew it all along then okay - I can see why Max signed on - but he's playing Robert with much more depth and nuance than this show deserves.

Every scene William Moseley is in is cringe worthy.  He really cannot act.  At all.  Like - when you put him in a scene with Helena he just pales.  The only reason he halfway works with Cyrus is because Cy makes fun of him for most of the scene.

And wow - killing off Robert/Willow like that is really upsetting.  This show REALLY thinks Liam/Kathyrn is better than Willow/Robert?  STUPID writers who clearly didn't understand what the audience wanted.  NO ONE cares about Liam and Kathryn.  Hell, Kathryn's only moments of spark on this show were her scenes with Robert.

 

Is there gonna be a S5?  If so, I might watch - but only if Max Brown returns.  Without him, this show is dead to me.

 

SAME.

I do find it interesting they built the whole romance of Willow and Robert, only to see it crashing down for the sake of what? To see what a bad person Robert is?? PUL-EEZE. He runs circles around these people and that's a testament to Max Brown because he can do both delicious evil and soft heartache all in the same line. And I think that's also because him and Willow just have such a natural ease with one another and really sparkle together. Honestly, I think Max and Genevieve saw magic and they really put their effort behind the relationship being great and not just a plot point. The problem is the show has a following but not big enough for them to really get their due. (I'm finding Twitter lacking but Tumblr is full of good stuff).

Since we know something goes down (a shooting or something) I hope it can end with some kind of love between Willow and Robert and Willow doesn't go full, "You betrayed me" on him. I couldn't take it. I can take the angst of him wanting her and she taking his apology in some way but I doubt that will happen since I'm sure it will end with shots ringing out, he's hit and end scene. It' going to end on some kind of cliffhanger so I don't expect ANYTHING to be remedied, and that def goes with Willow and Robert. I don't think she's going to say no to him but she's going to do SOMETHING (which will piss me off I'm sure).

IF there is a S5, (A BIG ONE!) I do think Willow and Robert will be explored more and I don't see Robert going anywhere. He's THE reason I got back into the show.

[movingtargetgal]

 I hope Robert and William are passed over in becoming The King.  I think Eleanor would make a wonderful monarch.  Long live Queen Eleanor.!

[UNOSEZ]

18 minutes ago, movingtargetgal said:

 I hope Robert and William are passed over in becoming The King.  I think Eleanor would make a wonderful monarch.  Long live Queen Eleanor.!

I can  only support this if jasper gets sent into space or run over by wild elephants... If she's more central to the plot and still attached to him by the hip I can't support that... They already fridged sebastien for "reasons" so she would need another suitor... Or no one to be king...  Sebastien woulda made an interesting king... But this show has a hard-on for Liam for some reason so bleh

[catrice2]

Can someone explain what happened with Sebastian?  As you all know, I am boycotting the last few episodes ( and from the above, rightly so!) because I saw the writing on the wall.  

Any theories on what would happen to Robert if there is a second season and Liam and company expose him? I don't see him staying in the palace if Liam is in power, and if everyone distrusts him what could he possibly do?   The only outcome would be for him to get killed and have that mystery. 

[UNOSEZ]

1 minute ago, catrice2 said:

Can someone explain what happened with Sebastian?  As you all know, I am boycotting the last few episodes ( and from the above, rightly so!) because I saw the writing on the wall.  

Any theories on what would happen to Robert if there is a second season and Liam and company expose him? I don't see him staying in the palace if Liam is in power, and if everyone distrusts him what could he possibly do?   The only outcome would be for him to get killed and have that mystery. 

Same here haven't watched the last 3 episodes.. From what I've read he makes  have told Robert that Eleanor was Robin Hood tho I'm not 100% on that... I do know that Eleanor caught him and Helena so maybe that's it... Either way lesser characters were forgiven after doing much much worse.. But the show isn't exactly a bastion for diversity and sebastien is a friend of Robert so maybe it was all about taking everything from Robert. Damn maybe I need to watch my DVR to be sure

[Misstiny111]

I'm so pissed I don't think I can even write a review about this episode. I wasn't able to do so in the previous one. Ugh...

[EarlGreyTea]

After I've had some time to digest and read everyone's great posts, I've become even more peeved that I allowed myself to get invested in Robert and Willow when I knew as far back as last season that this show won't let Robert have anything good or, from the looks of it, get out of the show with a single redeeming quality. My one last shred of hope was that if Robert had to become a villain, his feelings for Willow were at least genuine. If I'm right about him plagiarizing Eleanor's love letters, that hope was blown out of the water. I really  don't think they will be going for ANY nuance with Robert.  It will be full on, mustache-twirling villain with no redeeming qualities and, mark my words, he will probably end up terrorizing poor Willow. Any nuance we saw was on the part of Max Brown, and Max Brown only.

The only thing that can salvage this dumpster fire is if Willow is on it with Robert. That would be so entirely badass and a genuine twist. But we know she's most likely not. She's going to be the damsel for everyone else (likely Liam) to rescue.

At least I enjoyed it while it all lasted and I really enjoy reading everyone's posts here. You all will be the only reason I come back next season.

9 hours ago, phoenics said:

I was bored to tears with all of the conspirators meeting up.  Funny - they NEVER came together like this to take down Cyrus did they?  Nope.  How did Robert become more evil than Cyrus who killed someone?

Oh - I guess they'll pin Simon's death on Robert too.

I basically fast forwarded through all of the earnest scenes of these people hypocritically going after Robert.  Yes, he's tyrannical - but Jasper was the worst kind of con man, Helena was a master manipulator, Cyrus was the worst and a murderer... I just HATE IT that Liam gets to be the good guy who was right all along while Robert is reduced to a mustache twirling villain just to prop Liam up.  So they all get to be redeemed but Robert doesn't?  This show could teach a master class on wasted potential.  They really should have brought Robert back in S2 - then they could have done all of this and had time to redeem him.

I can't stand Liam - William Moseley could NEVER hold up as the lead of the show - even now he's propped up by Cyrus and Helena.

See - this is proof that the show didn't know AT ALL what it had in Max Brown to write him into such a corner that he'll never get out even if there is a S5.  If there isn't a S5 and they knew it all along then okay - I can see why Max signed on - but he's playing Robert with much more depth and nuance than this show deserves.

I love your posts, as always. Agreed that all the other main characters have murky backstories and a list of crimes to rival Robert's. Yet he's the one that's going down? It would be less infuriating if, as I stated above, his feelings for Willow were genuine. Then, between that and Max Brown's acting, he could be redeemed. Anyone who doubts that should look to Jasper for how the show can redeem a character if it really wants to. Jasper DRUGGED Eleanor, yet everyone is pointing the finger at Robert? Naw son.

I bet Brown LOVES playing this role, though. He's given the character a lot more layers and it's probably fun to play a tyrant.

6 hours ago, emjohnson03 said:

SAME.

I do find it interesting they built the whole romance of Willow and Robert, only to see it crashing down for the sake of what? To see what a bad person Robert is?? PUL-EEZE. He runs circles around these people and that's a testament to Max Brown because he can do both delicious evil and soft heartache all in the same line. And I think that's also because him and Willow just have such a natural ease with one another and really sparkle together. Honestly, I think Max and Genevieve saw magic and they really put their effort behind the relationship being great and not just a plot point. The problem is the show has a following but not big enough for them to really get their due. (I'm finding Twitter lacking but Tumblr is full of good stuff).

I'd love some angst if we get a S5. Now that would be worth sticking around for, if the show was truly invested in it. The writers do angst well. I admit to really loving Jasper and Eleanor's angst in the early seasons, especially because they pretty much carried the show.

What is the chatter about Willow and Robert on tumblr? Is it positive? What about for Max Brown?

5 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Can someone explain what happened with Sebastian?  As you all know, I am boycotting the last few episodes ( and from the above, rightly so!) because I saw the writing on the wall.  

Any theories on what would happen to Robert if there is a second season and Liam and company expose him? I don't see him staying in the palace if Liam is in power, and if everyone distrusts him what could he possibly do?   The only outcome would be for him to get killed and have that mystery. 

It was kind of murky, but apparently Sebastian told Robert offscreen about Eleanor. I'm not completely buying it, as it was kind of hastily explained, we never saw a scene of Robert's reaction to it, and Jasper looked mighty guilty when Eleanor told him about it later. I still think Jasper is the real whistleblower. Sebastian was one of the most decent characters on the show and didn't deserve that unceremonious trip to OffscreenLand.

As for Robert, death or jail will be the only thing left for him to do. If he's murdered, I am SO out.

Edited May 7, 2018 by EarlGreyTea

[catrice2]

I hope to see the actor in something again. I know he is a model turned actor, but he has potential....oh well, for me anyway Sebastian was the only pretty...but not pretty enough (or in the show enough) for me to watch every week.  He was the only one that I felt like was sincere, but I am sure they will blow that out of the water.   Max Brown is not as physically attractive to me as he was when he was younger (MIstresses!!/Spooks!) but he is no where near the Sebastian league. He is, however, very compelling to watch. 

I am thankful that I was apparently not watching the show for Jaspers worst deeds..drugging, sleeping with the mother, etc.   I think had I been watching then there is no way I could tolerate the few Elenaor/Jasper scenes that I sometimes get stuck watching while I am waiting for Robert to appear. 

[emjohnson03]

1 hour ago, EarlGreyTea said:

 

I'd love some angst if we get a S5. Now that would be worth sticking around for, if the show was truly invested in it. The writers do angst well. I admit to really loving Jasper and Eleanor's angst in the early seasons, especially because they pretty much carried the show.

What is the chatter about Willow and Robert on tumblr? Is it positive? What about for Max Brown?

 

Totally agree on angst. I love angst when it's done right and I know Max and Genevieve can pull it off as evidenced by Willow going after Robert about keeping her in the dark this episode. I'm still hopeful that Robert is genuine with Willow and the way Max plays it, makes it seem that he does and I would love any scene where Robert makes that clear to her but I doubt think that's going to happen. Sigh.

And yes! People love Max Brown as well as Robert and Willow on tumblr. I would advise everyone to go and search 'robert x willow' or 'rillow' for some gif's galore. I love it because there's alot of good stuff to watch and enjoy. Watching it back, there's NO WAY Robert is playing Willow the whole time. But of course that's the fan in me. 

I really do think there will be something that will happen NO one will see coming that will end the season. 

[omgsowicked]

King Liam and Queen Kathryn, everyone! Isn't this everything you ever hoped for?! /extreme sarcasm

I didn't realize that the reason Eleanor knew what Robert said was because of the love letters. Dang, harsh. On the one hand, I can understand why he's like this, since the reason he survived on the island, Kathryn, moved right along to Liam, and then kept it from him. Plus, his upbringing, being groomed to be ruler of a country, and his father wanting to "take" it away from him. But it still sucked that he couldn't come up with his own words to Willow. I was hoping that they would run away together after he loses the crown, love conquers all, but I doubt that'll happen now.

I'm trying to figure out what I would be OK with, since they're destroying the things that got me excited (Robert, Robert/Willow). I think it would be pretty badass if Willow went rogue and got hers somehow... but she wouldn't get to keep her title if Robert loses his, right? I don't see how Eleanor could get the crown over Liam at this point, unless Robert is dethroned and Liam dies in whatever fight breaks out... but then we get King Jasper, and that is no better than Liam/Kathryn. They'd never break up "Jaspenor" so Sebastian/Eleanor won't happen, which would be pretty good. Is there any way to get rid of Kathryn and make Liam/Willow a thing? I think I could handle that. Ugh! This sucks, lol.

I enjoyed seeing Liam and Cyrus planning their "argument" but yeah, I could have done without the extended recap. I thought it was good to see the trickery went that far back with Liam and Cyrus but we didn't need to see everything thing else again but with an added smirk. It was nice to see them (awkwardly) hug at the end. Cyrus is still Cyrus but he's made some improvements.

I think Jasper's the one who told the press about Eleanor being Robin Hood but it seemed like they were saying Sebastian did? I got confused about that. They did Sebastian dirty... he was a good guy, which is a rare thing on this show.

Next week's episode looks to be a good one, maybe not for what will happen but in terms of ~drama~. I don't know enough about E! or the show's ratings to have an idea about it getting another season... I hope there isn't a cliffhanger.

[paisley]

Liam has the gravitas of a 13 year old so I can't ever conceive of him being king. Nor can I imagine a Willow/Liam pairing because she's so far above him. Kathryn is just his speed.

I don't quite have a grasp of what the monarchy is supposed to be about in this show's canon. Have they evolved to a place where they function as a kind of public relations business for Britain or is there some kind of old school holdover of power? Robert has yanked power from the elected political groups quite easily, with no backlash from the public that we're aware of so how's that working? Is he a one man show running the entire country with no assistance? Am I giving this way too much thought cause it ain't that serious? Max Brown has sucked me in!

I'm very sorry that Sebastian got caught up in the palace shenanigans. He was a good guy and I liked him with Helena.

Willow is a warrior goddess and should rise from upcoming cataclysm smarter and stronger than ever.

I'm kind of anxious about where this is going to end up next episode. Which is a testament to the actors and writers that I even care enough to wonder about it. I'm totally here for #RenewTheRoyals  and #RedemptionForRobert

[VartanFan]

I’m thinking Helena is going to betray Liam.  She totally went hard on the whole ‘trust no one’ thing. 

[Fresag]

May be it is too late, but I was the only noticing that  they really don't show Robert saying anything from Eleanor's letter to Willow, the scene that was shown he said other things, the only phrase that was in both scenes was when he said that willow was a gift, and that was the first thing that Willow told Eleanor and she didn't become upset about it(as it was not necessarily in the letter) , but she began to be upset with all things that followed, but any of these were in the scene of Robert re-proposal to willow.