S03.E04: Reload

[marinw]

On 5/3/2018 at 7:38 PM, WildPlum said:

It's also sort of hard to believe that none of the Belters and miners went after the Nauvoo for salvage - "oh, look, here is a perfectly modern ship filled with lots of good stuff just floating around here on the "high seas" - I think I shall take what I need."

Space is big. It is unlikely any salvage crew would stumble upon the Nauvoo, even if it is the largest ship ever made. You need to know where to look.

I’m sure the Mormans would like their ship back

Edited May 4, 2018 by marinw

[WildPlum]

I doubt the Mormons are going to GET their ship back. It's Fred Johnson's now and it is his only "warship." Although I think there is a pretty good population of Mormons on Tycho Station, dunno how that works out for Fred.

[JZL]

20 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Not even one that has bacon? It's Bacon!!!!!

Once you add bacon to a food, it can no longer legally be called "kibble."

[jhlipton]

11 hours ago, johntfs said:

Hopefully we might see a different moral compass for him, perhaps Bobbie.

I think the reason that he latched onto Prax (in spite the latter's never securing gear!) is that he sees Prax as a new moral compass.  Prax is lmost the "anti-Amos" -- he's thoughtful and kind and so non-violent that when he does try to fight, it goes horribly wrong.  But he's not weak.  He's persevered through an incredibly difficult time.  And he believes in the one thing Amos holds most dear: protecting the innocent.

[johntfs]

On 5/4/2018 at 2:37 PM, Danny Franks said:

Avasarala looked very Mass Effect in the Razorback flight-suit. It is a good look, although not really practical... but then, her outfits never have been. And I'm still enjoying seeing her so out of sorts, in an unfamiliar environment and cut off from any ability to influence what's going on.

Shohreh Aghdashloo voiced Admiral Shala'Raan vas Tonbay in Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3.

[Katsullivan]

I'm all for peaceful resolution, but if Holden had shot that Martian brat, or at least Bobbie had whupped her ass, I won't have complained. Also the way the team dismissed Alex being attacked really took me out of the show.

[btp]

On 5/3/2018 at 6:27 AM, marinw said:

Did the Roci crew find another coffee maker on the Martian ship? Priorities!

 

This is a very, very mild spoiler - not spoilery enough to obscure, I don't think, but if there are any ultra-purists out there, just skip the next paragraph.

SyFy has released a "sneak peak" clip of Episode 5, which is kind of awesome and highly recommended if you don't despise those kinds of things, but more to the point, the clip begins with Holden pouring himself some coffee from what looks like a French press or something. Whether that was part of what was salvaged, I don't know. But I think we can feel secure in knowing that Jimmy is still getting his caffeine fix.

 

On 5/2/2018 at 10:07 PM, marinw said:

Who else was expecting Anna’s wife to die? I know this show isn’t that predictable, but I was still worried for her.

 

On 5/3/2018 at 4:10 PM, Holmbo said:

I was too! The tone of the scene was just too loving, it set my alarm bells off. :D
But in my rational brain I thought it more likely that the writers wanted to make the message from Chrisjen more impactfull once it came.

Yeah, I think that's mostly it. But also, I think the writer's room for this show takes particular perverse pleasure in subverting tropes and defying expectations wherever possible. So we get, for instance, Cortazar declaring there is more protomolecule somewhere other than Eros, and we all think it's going to be Naomi's hidden torpedo, but actually it's Ganymede. Or we see Errinwright writing heartfelt letters, having heart-to-hearts with his previously unseen son, and eyeing poison capsules gravely, so we assume he's about to commit suicide, when in fact it was murder that was on his mind. Clever bastards, these writers.

 

On 5/3/2018 at 6:38 PM, WildPlum said:

While the thing with Drummer taking over the Nauvoo was interesting, it felt like plot filler - Fred Johnson dispatching her and then a shot of her coming back and saying "I brought the Nauvoo" would have pretty much achieved the same thing. It's also sort of hard to believe that none of the Belters and miners went after the Nauvoo for salvage - "oh, look, here is a perfectly modern ship filled with lots of good stuff just floating around here on the "high seas" - I think I shall take what I need."

I think this show makes an attempt, whenever possible, to accurately, or at least semi-accurately, depict the great stretches of time that are required to traverse large distances in space, so whenever someone is going to take a long trip, they disappear for a few episodes. An example would be when Bobbie and her team are told they're heading to Ganymede, and then they completely disappear from the story for several episodes, only to show up in time for their massacre. This can create a kind of a structural awkwardness in the storytelling, but I appreciate it that it gives us a sense of the actual passage of time involved here. Same with this. We saw Fred and Drummer discuss this in Episode 1, and then Drummer heads off (after finishing her drink, of course), and we only see her again now. Yes, it breaks up the story some, but it also reminds us that the Nauvoo is pretty damned far away. Which, by the way, I think answers your second question -- nobody has sought to salvage it because catching up to it was a pretty big project, involving traveling a long distance, probably some at High G to boot. It would take someone with the resources of Fred Johnson and Tycho to mount a salvage mission like that. That wasn't just Drummer and a pal or two that embarked on that mission, it was an entire fleet of vehicles and people. And yes, some of that was necessary to bring the drones and all that, but just the logistics required to go that far in pursuit of something that big is probably beyond the capability of your average Mom and Pop Belter enterprise.

 

On 5/3/2018 at 11:37 AM, zobot81 said:

I know this was recently brought up (after episode 3), but does anyone believe they have a good read on Errinwright's endgame? I feel like I have been paying super close attention to his motivations over the course of 2+ seasons, and I still don't have a (proto-)molecule of an idea why he's doing anything that he's doing.

On 5/3/2018 at 12:54 PM, Winged Nike said:

I think that at his core, Errinwright believed he was doing the best for Earth; and eliminating Mars is what he thinks is best for Earth. I think that's why he originally got involved with the protomolecule conspiracy, as way to help Earth defeat Mars.  But when Eros started moving on its own, on a collision course with Earth, threatening everything his planet, he turned against Mao and confessed his involvement to Avarasala. But she wanted him to confess to everyone and accept punishment, so now I think he's mainly just trying to save himself by framing Avarasala for his crimes and having her killed.

I think Errinwright's motivations come from some mixture of fear and hubris (always a winning combo, right?). I think he is genuinely afraid of the power of the protomolecule, especially now that it's out there on its own, doing God-knows-what on Venus. His break with Mao resulted in his being Out of the Loop, and worse yet, Mao took his toys and went to play in the sandbox of Errinwright's mortal enemy across the street. So he felt he needed to do something to get things back on course, so that Earth (and he, specifically) would be better able to harness this new technology or, failing that, at least have a prayer of defending itself against it.

So that's the fear part. The hubris part is that Errinwright has, for whatever reason, come to believe that he, alone, can fix this (to borrow a phrase). He sees Avasarala going to "negotiate" with Mao, which he believes is a mistake, and he realizes that Mao himself is largely in it for the money, which makes him an unreliable partner. So he engineers a war to make sure everyone is on the same page -- the Earth Must Come First page, the one he (as he points out) learned from Chrisjen, but also, in his opinion, the only page that will guarantee Earth's safety. Because you can't trust anyone (he thinks) but yourself and the people whom you've subjugated.

I think his recent descent into mustache-twirling evil madness is just that combination of fear and hubris taken to its extreme. And boy, is the fall going to hurt when it comes.

 

On 5/4/2018 at 1:15 AM, jhlipton said:

That's why he feels the betrayal even deeper than Holden.  He looked to Naomi to show him right from wrong, so if she's wrong, what does he do.  That's why he latched onto Prax so fast -- he found a new (and perhaps better) moral compass.

I really like what the show has done with the relationship between Amos and Prax. They're so dissimilar, yet somehow they seem to innately understand each other. I think it's because each sees in the other a bit of something they wish they had more of themselves. The unfortunate thing here is that, even as some of Prax rubs off on Amos, some of Amos is also rubbing off on Prax. That "what have  I done?" look on Amos' face when Prax casually swept aside a dead body to get at something to pilfer was priceless.

 

On 5/3/2018 at 11:21 AM, Kelda Feegle said:

Makes sense to take something apart to learn how it works.

"Inherent to repurposing, disassembly reveals useful pathways." Yikes. Not even Mr. Spock was that logical. [Shudder]

 

Finally, two other random thoughts:

The kid playing Mei is perhaps not the most sophisticated actress out there (yet), but she gives good indignant.

I loved the moment between Alex and Bobbie, especially when he called her Gunny and she called him Sailor. Not ready to board the ship just yet, but they do make a pretty cute couple.

Edited May 7, 2018 by btp

[jhlipton]

22 hours ago, btp said:

Mom and Pop Belter enterprise.

That "what have  I done?" look on Amos' face when Prax casually swept aside a dead body to get at something to pilfer was priceless.

"Inherent to repurposing, disassembly reveals useful pathways." Yikes. Not even Mr. Spock was that logical. [Shudder].

Whenever I'm on Tycho, I always shop at Mom and Pop Belter's Emporium!

Yep.

Or "Discovery requires experimentation" -- Hydra continuing the Nazi mantra.

[btp]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

Whenever I'm on Tycho, I always shop at Mom and Pop Belter's Emporium

That's right, Edna.

[Those who don't get the  reference, which will probably be most of the people here, may wish to seek clarification from the Google Machine.]

[CarpeFelis]

On 5/2/2018 at 7:07 PM, marinw said:

Who else was expecting Anna’s wife to die? I know this show isn’t that predictable, but I was still worried for her.

I was expecting the call with Anna’s wife was going to end with an earth-shattering kaboom at her end and was really relieved when it didn’t!

Avasarala’s usual wardrobe is stunning but she really does rock the flight suit. Loved her comment “this is going to be tedious if you remain this dim”. I wanna be Chrisjen when I grow up.

[WatchrTina]

I'm late weighing in to this conversation. I put off watching because I've started reading the books and I was thinking I'd get caught up to the action and then read and watch in tandem -- but having just heard the news that the series wasn't renewed for a season 4 I've decided to get back on board the view-and-discuss train.

Well damn, that episode was all kinds of entertaining.  I was on my feet cheering when Holden took down that one Martian (this is after my shouting at the screen to lock up those Martians and not just give them the run of the sick bay.  Poor Alex.)  I was on my feet cheering again when the mere appearance of Bobbie scared that one Martian completely shitless.  I loved the implied threat of "We really need to sort this out before Amos gets back on board.  Really.  Trust me on this." followed by Amos' disappointment at having "missed it."  I love Amos.  I also loved Avasarala rocking that white Rasorback jumpsuit and I really enjoyed her verbally kicking butt and taking names.  I was hugging myself with glee over this episode  . . .  and then came that final scene.  Damn.  This show really does step over the line from SciFi  into horror every now and then, doesn't it?

I had found Mao's change of heart last episode to be odd and out of character.  So I guess it's good (?) that he got over it and is back to his evil, conscience-less self again.  But I don't "get" why he did that.  I think we were supposed to think that Mei reminded him of his daughter Julie and he was feeling remorse over her death but . . . now he's over it.  Okaaaaay.  I like this show.  I really do.  But I'm glad there is a book because I suspect the motivations of these characters may be illuminated there in a way I'm missing in the TV show.

Edited May 12, 2018 by WatchrTina

[Duhhh123]

Someone previously mentioned that Amos reminds them of Jared from Silicon Valley. Am I the only one who keeps seeing Silicon Valley's Gavin Belson whenever Errinwright is on screen? I keep expecting Errinwright to talk like Belson at Hooli.

[marinw]

1 hour ago, Duhhh123 said:

Am I the only one who keeps seeing Silicon Valley's Gavin Belson whenever Errinwright is on screen? I keep expecting Errinwright to talk like Gavin Belson whenever Errinwright is on screen? 

That was me who made the Jared/Amos comparison. I sometimes watch The Expanse with my Mom, who thought that Errinwright and Gavin were played by the same actor! It would be fun to watch Errinwright get his ass handed to him as often as Gavin does.

Edited May 16, 2018 by marinw

[cleo]

Well watching this show very late. I'm a bit tired of everyone being cold to Naomi and I'm not even a huge Naomi fan.

BUT the fact that giving it to Fred was completely idiotic was proven  the second he turned around and gave it to Dawes.

Anyone would've been better. She should've given it to the woman- the one that went to get the Navoo. 

Or anyone else. Bc I don't think Dawes gives a fuck much about anyone but himself and his own power. 

I know Naomi didn't know Fred was going to do that, still a poor choice. And he wasn't even a Belter.

Edited August 1, 2022 by cleo

[MissLucas]

59 minutes ago, cleo said:

Anyone would've been better. She should've given it to the woman- the one that went to get the Navoo. 

Drummer - I agree she would have been the better choice.